NationStates Jolt Archive

My daughter will soon be ready for babtism. My girlfriend is a Lutheran, and is very into shit like this. She likes the robes and the oils and all, and I respect her faith.

But, I dislike organised religion myself, especially my girlfriend's. Her church actually discussed, in an open meeting, wether or not to DENY her communion when she was pregnant, because she and I weren't married.

Well, fuck that is what I say. How dare they stare down their noses at us?

Long story short, they want to babtise my daughter. I'm fine with this, but they're demanding I attend the babtism, and begin to attend services regularly. Why should I? I don't believe, and I never will.

So, my girl's pastor comes over last night and gets to heckling me about it. His only argument was that 'God wants you to be there.' Is that right? I told him that I would gladly attend his church, EVERY Sunday, morning and evening, as long as he would participate in sacrificing a goat with me and ritually burning the carcass. After all, the smell of my goat's burning flesh is pleasing to the Lord.

Needless to say, he wasn't amused or agreeable to my plan. Now, my house is a fucking warzone. I want to keep the peace around here, and I hate to mock my girlfriend's faith, but goddamnit, I DON'T BELIEVE!

So I want to know. Why is your faith better than mine? If God is so eager for you holy rollers to convert heathen sinners such as myself, why do you hesitate to bathe in lambsblood with me? Is your faith not strong enough to carry you through it? Why should I participate in the 'accepted' religious ceremony, when my own is viewed as sinful and shocking?

Still you pray, you never stray,
Never taste of the fruit!
You never thought to question why...

Contrary to what you may believe, God's last name is not "damn," and you CAN be a non-believer without attacking those who choose to believe. :)

Needless to say, he wasn't amused or agreeable to my plan. Now, my house is a fucking warzone. I want to keep the peace around here, and I hate to mock my girlfriend's faith, but goddamnit, I DON'T BELIEVE!

What you do is your business and you will have to live with it. And like you say your house is a warzone. So my question to you is what kind of home do you want your child to live in? I think it is fairly clear that if you can't find someway to comprise on this your child will grow up in a household where two people are hanging on to a real load of resentment and arguing about unrelated issues. In other words a real hell hole. Very unpleasnt for the child and not at all fair to the child. The unity of your household is more important here, for the sake of your child, than any personel need to be right and win. I would give that same advice to the mother of the child also.

well there are a number religions you shouldnt marry into if you arnt part of or at the very least christian: southern baptist, lutheran, and mormon (which i doubt you could do anyway), there are probably some more i cant recall (edit: 7th day adventist)

but if the kid is baptised, go to that, then never go again, ever, they will steal your soul and feed it to baal or something like that

Yeah, if she's baptised, just attend the baptism and don't go again.

This is something you should have thought about before you were married. I dont know any religious figures who do not bring up this subject during pre-marital counseling, so I suspect that you knew this could be an issue and you chose to get married anyway. Well, its too late to change that decision at this point, now all you can do is figure out which is more important to you, your wife and daughter or sleeping in on sunday mornings.

Ya...people of religion like that tend to be very ignorant to anything else and quite stuck in their ways...I say screw the goat...they'd make much better sacrifices

Pantera, what exactly is it that you DO believe?

I must say tact should have prevented the whole thing about burning a goat.

If i were you i'd appologize, consent to go to the baptism thing, go to church for a month or so and then let the whole thing wind down on its own.

Seems clear enough: whatever kills the most farm animals. right on.

You have every right to be angry. You did not disrespect their belief and act in a patronising manner, until they did so first. If they do not respect your religious orientation, why should you respect theirs?

The only way this is going to work is if your daughter get's to hear both her parents religious beliefs, and get's to decide for herself. That's not going to happen if she is baptised and you are dragooned into attending services.

Stick to your guns. Why is the automatic assumption here that you should convert to your girlfriends religion? Why shouldn't she convert to yours? Or better still, why can't you both do your own thing without one person having to abandon their principles? It's not a "comprimise" if the choice is "Do it my way or do it my way." Your daughter deserves to make her own mind up about her own religion, and she deserves to be given the best chance of making an unbiased decision.

Add robes and oils to the goat burning and she will be all over that shit.

We never got married. As of now, she lives with me, and we live in SIN, according to her religion. Well, that along is enough to turn me off. We love each other, madly. That's enough for me and her.

Now, the general consensus seems to be 'Go to the babtism and tough it out.' I may, but this isn't really the problem. I could probably stomach half an hour of it, just for her sake. Once my daughter is old enough to decide for herself what she believes, I am going to let her. Even if she wants to go off and become a Mormon or some such nonsense, I'll accept that because I'll know she thought for herself and made her own decision.

My problem with the entire thing is that they are saying 'We're right, Pants. Stop being a sinner and get your ass into church. You are on the path to eternal hellfire. WE ARE YOUR ONLY CHANCE!' That's a load of shit, in my opinion. Your faith is all well and good, but don't try and push it off onto me. It doesn't float.

Now, what does Pantera believe?

Well, I believe that there is something out there, tending the light. Seeing all of the amazing things out there, something has to be behind it all, tweaking the strings. However, I've seen alot of horror in my lifetime, and I've read alot of history about human suffering. Christianity teaches that while God is a vengeful creature, he is also benign and the source of all that is good and pure. I think this is bullshit.

There is some greater, powerful presense out there. I accept and believe that. But after all of the horror that mankind had been through with no help from 'God', I should worship and praise him? Hah. Fear and defer to, maybe, but sing praises? Never.

All of that aside, I approve of all faiths. Beliefs are a good thing. Regardless of wether your God is an elephant, a fat guy, Christ, or some faceless idea of 'Allah', I think it is good to have something to guide you. However, I do NOT approve of blindly following dated, non-applicable dogma. Think for yourself. Make your own decisions. If you truly believe in something, that's fine, but don't believe something just becaust your parents/pastor/teacher/fuckbuddy tells you to. Question everything, and make your own decision.

That is what Pantera believes.

New Granada: Tact? So, accusing me of heresy is tactful? Saying,"I'm right, you are so utterly wrong." is tactful? I'll ask again, why is me sacrificing a goat so off, while Christian hipocrasy simply fprgets that for a thousand years they burnt each other at the stake. Is this alright? After all, me burning a goat is worse than slaughtering whole peoples and then pretending it never happened....

Etrusca: God's last name may not be 'damn', yet is it out of the question for me to beseech your God to damn the situation and those involved? He is all powerful, after all. Why shouldn't I?

how's this: go to church, sit in the very middle of the front row and sleep. this will be especially effective if you snore loudly.

after a few weeks of that, the pastor will probably let you off the hook for attending services and while your girlfriend may be slightly pissed at you, she will probably be happy as her kid got baptized in her faith and all...

My problem with the entire thing is that they are saying 'We're right, Pants. Stop being a sinner and get your ass into church. You are on the path to eternal hellfire. WE ARE YOUR ONLY CHANCE!' That's a load of shit, in my opinion. Your faith is all well and good, but don't try and push it off onto me. It doesn't float.


It still boils down to the following. Lets face a few facts here, being that you have never been married to this woman, (and that I am assuming you live in a western culture), you have very little claim to your own child. That isnt right, and it is a great injustice, but it is a fact. What you are both doing now is heading towards a breakup, and guess what? the day she leaves, chances are very good that you will not see your child again for a very long time.

So, the decision boils down to the following. Is it worth it to stick to your guns and know you are right, while sitting in your now empty home alone? I doubt it. Swallow your pride and let your girlfriend win this one, if you dont, its you who loses in the end.

It still boils down to the following. Lets face a few facts here, being that you have never been married to this woman, (and that I am assuming you live in a western culture), you have very little claim to your own child. That isnt right, and it is a great injustice, but it is a fact. What you are both doing now is heading towards a breakup, and guess what? the day she leaves, chances are very good that you will not see your child again for a very long time.

So, the decision boils down to the following. Is it worth it to stick to your guns and know you are right, while sitting in your now empty home alone? I doubt it. Swallow your pride and let your girlfriend win this one, if you dont, its you who loses in the end.

? I have all the claim in the world to my daughter. She carries my name, she wears the clothes I pay for, and she is the fruit of my body. That's claim enough for me, and woe to anyone who would try to make things otherwise...

While it's a pretty big fight, we're in no danger of splitting because of it. I could see us breaking if I simply said no, but I didn't. I'm allowing it to continue, I'm just iffy about wether or not I'll attend, especially when there is no chance in hell of them attending my own religious ceremony.

? I have all the claim in the world to my daughter. She carries my name, she wears the clothes I pay for, and she is the fruit of my body. That's claim enough for me, and woe to anyone who would try to make things otherwise...

While it's a pretty big fight, we're in no danger of splitting because of it. I could see us breaking if I simply said no, but I didn't. I'm allowing it to continue, I'm just iffy about wether or not I'll attend, especially when there is no chance in hell of them attending my own religious ceremony.
in america, hell anywhere, if you arnt married the court (the only one that matters) doesnt give two shits if shes your daughter, and hell, they STILL dont care even if you are married, being not married just makes it easier for them to prevent you seeing her, being a non-christian probably doesnt help your cae

Contrary to what you may believe, God's last name is not "damn," and you CAN be a non-believer without attacking those who choose to believe. :)
It seems to me that he's the one being attacked.

? I have all the claim in the world to my daughter. She carries my name, she wears the clothes I pay for, and she is the fruit of my body. That's claim enough for me, and woe to anyone who would try to make things otherwise...

While it's a pretty big fight, we're in no danger of splitting because of it. I could see us breaking if I simply said no, but I didn't. I'm allowing it to continue, I'm just iffy about wether or not I'll attend, especially when there is no chance in hell of them attending my own religious ceremony.


So I thought with my son as well. My girlfriend and I were not married when he was born, and we had this exact same tussle over religion. She insisted on bringing him into her sect, Christian Science, and I was vehemently opposed to that (mostly because I didn't want her mother having say over wether or not my son could go to a doctor... at all). Needless to say it turned into a huge fight. End result: I pay $500 a month in child support now, and my sone is about to turn 12 and I haven't seen him in 3 years.

Do I wish it were different? Only in so far as the end result. The religion thing I would still have stood firm, but therein lies the problem...

Yeah, if she's baptised, just attend the baptism and don't go again.
Good advice

I say go to the baptism but don't go to church afterwards. It seems reasonable and respectful to attend the baptism. You don't owe the church your respect but your do for your girlfriend. It is disrepectful for them to insist you change your beliefs. I'm afraid if your girlfriend can't be more tolerant of your beliefs the two of you won't last.

My problem with the entire thing is that they are saying 'We're right, Pants. Stop being a sinner and get your ass into church. You are on the path to eternal hellfire. WE ARE YOUR ONLY CHANCE!' That's a load of shit, in my opinion. Your faith is all well and good, but don't try and push it off onto me. It doesn't float.So nod your head, smile and lie. Tell them yes, you believe, you'll attend church, whatever. Feed them a load of bull equal to what their trying to shove down your throat. Make it a game, play dress up and go through the motions.

When it's over, forget about it.

Life's to short to let such things ruin your day.

I personally lived 'in sin' with my wife for 14 years and we had 4 kids before we made it 'legal'. I never let a strict catholic upbringing and the baptism of all my kids get in the way. Most clergy will realize when they can't win and take what they can get.

in america, hell anywhere, if you arnt married the court (the only one that matters) doesnt give two shits if shes your daughter, and hell, they STILL dont care even if you are married, being not married just makes it easier for them to prevent you seeing her, being a non-christian probably doesnt help your cae

Not to start a fight or anything, but if you are the adjuciated father the court gives you certain rights. You have to attend any court hearing to make sure your rights are protected; and you may need to hire an attorney to fight for you.

In Texas fathers have a better chance of getting custody of a child than in most places in the US. Not sure about Europe... Still, I'm praying to whatever gods are out there it never comes to this, because when I was a kid my parents went through a nasty divorce and I still remember how ripped up I was through it. I won't put my daugher through that.

But, if worse came to worse, I'm quite well off and keep my lawyer handy. I've been in quite a bit of trouble with the law in my life, and while expensive, this guy is the best of the best of the bloody best, and he's worth it. I would definately get my baby unless something drastic happened, like me dying myself blue and showing up to the hearing naked.