NationStates Jolt Archive

Who do you think is more in the right, Israel of the palestinians?
To clarify, who do you support?

i'm a fan of the palestinians. intifada all the way.

which palestinian and which israeli are you talking about?
I suggest you expose 2 ideas and we say which one is more right instead of talking about entire populations being right or wrong.

eh.... define what you mean? Do you mean are their actions justified?

Israel's certainly is... All we want is a piece of land we can call our own. Have you looked at Israel on a globe? pretty small.. The arabs have lots of countries, which they generally share a common language and religion. I think Israel should have the whole land... heck if not, even a little more.

bump?

eh.... define what you mean? Do you mean are their actions justified?

Israel's certainly is... All we want is a piece of land we can call our own. Have you looked at Israel on a globe? pretty small.. The arabs have lots of countries, which they generally share a common language and religion. I think Israel should have the whole land... heck if not, even a little more.

yeah - if people have been in place for years and you want their tuff - why not steal it. then commit various attrocities, breach more human rights acts than half the 'terrorist' (read: oil producing) nations of the world and get the americans to back you. you must be right

yeah - if people have been in place for years and you want their tuff - why not steal it. then commit various attrocities, breach more human rights acts than half the 'terrorist' (read: oil producing) nations of the world and get the americans to back you. you must be right
Israel never kicked the palestinians out. they left on their own so that the Arab armies could exterminate the jews without worrying about muslim civilian casualties. When the Jews won it's no wonder they didn't let the palestinians back in. BTW the Israelis haven't done much terrorism. Mostly they just defend themselves.

yeah - if people have been in place for years and you want their tuff - why not steal it. then commit various attrocities, breach more human rights acts than half the 'terrorist' (read: oil producing) nations of the world and get the americans to back you. you must be right

So your supporting the Palestinians then? How can you support them, despite all the stuff you said about them.... I guess you just don't care that Israel is being abused, by having land stolen, and all that other stuff.

Israel never kicked the palestinians out. they left on their own so that the Arab armies could exterminate the jews without worrying about muslim civilian casualties. When the Jews won it's no wonder they didn't let the palestinians back in. BTW the Israelis haven't done much terrorism. Mostly they just defend themselves.
Yes they did, against the British forces after the second world war.

Yes they did, against the British forces after the second world war.



Technically they were Jewish Terrorists, not Israeli. ;)

He was asking about terrorism by modern Israeli Jews... which has been completely stamped out pretty much.

Yes they did, against the British forces after the second world war.
I said they didn't do much terrorism. I didn't say they didn't do any terrorism.

So your supporting the Palestinians then? How can you support them, despite all the stuff you said about them.... I guess you just don't care that Israel is being abused, by having land stolen, and all that other stuff.

what stuff did i say about the palestinians? i'm not saying their ethics or regime are faultless but certainly (in my eyes) a damnsite better than the israeli ones. i don't support israel because i don't see how buldozing house, refugee camps and nurseries is ever self defence. and no - before the replies start flying - i don't see the palestinian bombings as self defense either. i just think that israel has the upper hand too often in world politics - has somehow garnered multinational support through sympathy as much as anything (misplaced holocaust guilt anyone?). Also having highschool friends who escaped palestine and came back with some pretty brutal horror stories about the kind of stuff the israeli army would get up to. also imho it's the palestinians land and the israelis are theifs. but its not up to me.

I said they didn't do much terrorism. I didn't say they didn't do any terrorism.
Fair point. But it did of set an example of how to win a state in that region.

Both have legitimate rights.. But I'm leaning more towards Isreal.

Palestinians should clean up their own mess first which they aren't doing.

what stuff did i say about the palestinians? i'm not saying their ethics or regime are faultless but certainly (in my eyes) a damnsite better than the israeli ones. i don't support israel because i don't see how buldozing house, refugee camps and nurseries is ever self defence. and no - before the replies start flying - i don't see the palestinian bombings as self defense either. i just think that israel has the upper hand too often in world politics - has somehow garnered multinational support through sympathy as much as anything (misplaced holocaust guilt anyone?). Also having highschool friends who escaped palestine and came back with some pretty brutal horror stories about the kind of stuff the israeli army would get up to. also imho it's the palestinians land and the israelis are theifs. but its not up to me.
Bulldozing terrorist's houses provides a financial disincentive for families to encourage their children to be terrorists. Bulldozing refugee camps is legitimate when there are arms smuggling tunnels and bomb/rocket production factories in them.

Israel is in the right.

The land was offered to the Jews after the holocaust by allied nations, now say you've just experienced hell. Are you going to say no to this land ?

Don't be ridiculous.

The Jews just wanted to have their lives again, and a homeland would allow that, it's not like the Jews chose to be put there is it.

Wagwanimus, I'm not sure what has got your pants in such a twist, but the bulldozing of houses is a detterant, it helps stop terrorist do what they do, they know, if they are going to bomb some Israeli's, this will hit back on all of their family, which they don't want to happen, and those 'High school friends with stories of IDF atrocities', I'm guessing that is just a Bias view, as if the Palestinians haven't had their fair share of brutal events against Israelis.

Israel has a right to defend itself, and good for them.

Bulldozing terrorist's houses provides a financial disincentive for families to encourage their children to be terrorists. Bulldozing refugee camps is legitimate when there are arms smuggling tunnels and bomb/rocket production factories in them.
It does also create resentment and hatred as people loose their homes and possessions. It punishes at the expense of creating more enemies.

It does also create resentment and hatred as people loose their homes and possessions. It punishes at the expense of creating more enemies.
Israel will never be loved by the palestinians. They can, however, ensure that they will be respected.

Israel is in the right.

The land was offered to the Jews after the holocaust by allied nations, now say you've just experienced hell. Are you going to say no to this land ?

Don't be ridiculous.

The Jews just wanted to have their lives again, and a homeland would allow that, it's not like the Jews chose to be put there is it.

Wagwanimus, I'm not sure what has got your pants in such a twist, but the bulldozing of houses is a detterant, it helps stop terrorist do what they do, they know, if they are going to bomb some Israeli's, this will hit back on all of their family, which they don't want to happen, and those 'High school friends with stories of IDF atrocities', I'm guessing that is just a Bias view, as if the Palestinians haven't had their fair share of brutal events against Israelis.

Israel has a right to defend itself, and good for them.

do you not think that bulldozing the houses of the inncocent is a pretty poor detterent? if the Israelis are so sure that the terrorists are hiding in these camps why not send some of their highly trained soldiers in to get them out? rather than kill kids? my pants are on straight thanks - i just object to the israeli friendly version of events we always get. and yes, i'm sure that palestinians have done some brutal things as well. at least they have the balls, and honesty to call their army an army not a 'defence force'. the land was not empty when the israelis were put there after WWII - they are an oppressive occupying force that should show some restraint. FYI no need to put parenthesis around 'high school friends with stories' even if the guys i knew weren't being fully honest (though having talked with their parents i must admit that i believe them) i don't think you can doubt the serious problems that arise from a system which systematically murders children. the Israelis have no rights to the west bank or Gaza. but hopefully a peaceful silution can be acheived

do you not think that bulldozing the houses of the inncocent is a pretty poor detterent? if the Israelis are so sure that the terrorists are hiding in these camps why not send some of their highly trained soldiers in to get them out? rather than kill kids? my pants are on straight thanks - i just object to the israeli friendly version of events we always get. and yes, i'm sure that palestinians have done some brutal things as well. at least they have the balls, and honesty to call their army an army not a 'defence force'. the land was not empty when the israelis were put there after WWII - they are an oppressive occupying force that should show some restraint. FYI no need to put parenthesis around 'high school friends with stories' even if the guys i knew weren't being fully honest (though having talked with their parents i must admit that i believe them) i don't think you can doubt the serious problems that arise from a system which systematically murders children. the Israelis have no rights to the west bank or Gaza. but hopefully a peaceful silution can be acheived
The palestinians use child soldiers. They use kids to slow down tanks by standing in front of them. If palestinian kids get killed it's because they are acting as fighters.

Israel will never be loved by the palestinians. They can, however, ensure that they will be respected.
Fear is different from respect and fear is overcome by hatred. I make no comment on who is right or wrong at this point. It seems to me however that Isreali tactics do not really encourage a peaceful resolution either their or anyone else's favour. The would seem rather to promote the continuation of violence by both sides indefinately.

The palestinians use child soldiers. They use kids to slow down tanks by standing in front of them. If palestinian kids get killed it's because they are acting as fighters.

wtf are tanks doing on their land?

kids walking is not a threatening act.

kids rebelling against an oppressive and authoritarian presence in their homeland is a fairly natural reaction.

do you not think that bulldozing the houses of the inncocent is a pretty poor detterent? if the Israelis are so sure that the terrorists are hiding in these camps why not send some of their highly trained soldiers in to get them out? rather than kill kids? my pants are on straight thanks - i just object to the israeli friendly version of events we always get. and yes, i'm sure that palestinians have done some brutal things as well. at least they have the balls, and honesty to call their army an army not a 'defence force'. the land was not empty when the israelis were put there after WWII - they are an oppressive occupying force that should show some restraint. FYI no need to put parenthesis around 'high school friends with stories' even if the guys i knew weren't being fully honest (though having talked with their parents i must admit that i believe them) i don't think you can doubt the serious problems that arise from a system which systematically murders children. the Israelis have no rights to the west bank or Gaza. but hopefully a peaceful silution can be acheived

I'd have to disagree, it's a rather clever detterant. Most suicide bombers do not attack for Allah, but they attack because they can get money for their families. Don't try and twist this and say its the Israeli's fault they are poor in the first place because that is crap. If they kill themselves to make a quick buck, their house will be destroyed making that bribe irrelevent, it's rather clever.

Kill kids ? Yeah because the cowardly palestinians use them as shields. As if a Palestinian has never killed kids, you're forgetting when militants raided an Israeli school a while back and murdered tens of kids and teachers.

Oh yes, 'Defence Force' because the name of an organisation is really that important [/sarcasm].

I also never said the land was empty after WW2, I said they were offered the land, and quite frankly, who wouldn't take it.

Ditto on the peaceful situation, I do hope now Abbas in is office that the Israeli's and Palestinians can restart peace talks.

wtf are tanks doing on their land?
kids walking is not a threatening act.
kids rebelling against an oppressive and authoritarian presence in their homeland is a fairly natural reaction.

Kids throw rocks. Big rocks hurt. Plus.. once in a blue moon, kids throw grenade. Grenade hurts too.

wtf are tanks doing on their land?

kids walking is not a threatening act.

kids rebelling against an oppressive and authoritarian presence in their homeland is a fairly natural reaction.
1 hunting down terrorists and their supporters

2 It is if they are walking in front of a tank in order to slow it down for an easy shot with an RPG

3 If they don't want to deal with the Israeli military they could stop shooting women and children and blowing up busses filled with working people and school kids.

I'd have to disagree, it's a rather clever detterant. Most suicide bombers do not attack for Allah, but they attack because they can get money for their families. Don't try and twist this and say its the Israeli's fault they are poor in the first place because that is crap. If they kill themselves to make a quick buck, their house will be destroyed making that bribe irrelevent, it's rather clever.

Kill kids ? Yeah because the cowardly palestinians use them as shields. As if a Palestinian has never killed kids, you're forgetting when militants raided an Israeli school a while back and murdered tens of kids and teachers.

Oh yes, 'Defence Force' because the name of an organisation is really that important [/sarcasm].

I also never said the land was empty after WW2, I said they were offered the land, and quite frankly, who wouldn't take it.

Ditto on the peaceful situation, I do hope now Abbas in is office that the Israeli's and Palestinians can restart peace talks.

no, most suicide bomber don't attack for allah - it's not a primarily (note that i said primarily please before posting) a religious conflict - it is a conflict over land rights. there are of course religious facets to the divide. it's true there are suicide bombers who will kill for the money. there are also those who will kill for their people's rights to land they see as their own. however i have no access to figures which either to be the most popular cause. mainly because the protagonists of the bombings are generally dead before they can provide their reasons.

by your reasoning then, if the displaced iraqis from fallujah had been offered part of hawaii and accepted it (because 'who wouldn't') it would rightly be theres and any violent resistance by hawaiian people would be out of line - the iraquis would be in the right?

Also don't tell me that the wall is a counter terrorism measure - it is a device of segregation put in place by a self insulated racial group and one of it's direct effects is to hinder honest palestinians in search of gainful employment. it might be worth considering that if more palestinians were employed than money would not be such a factor in their choices to become bombers

Look to sum up comments.

Israel didn't steal the land, they didn't start the fight, Israel terraformed the land practically. Israel isn't even on the UN security council, they are condemned every 2 seconds. and the arabs hide behind children when attacking, since it'll make the Israeli's look bad when fighting. What don't you get out of this? Israel is suffering..not Arabs. Go look at Israel on a globe. Go there right now. Seriously.

I'd just like to say that Israelis clearly have the upper hand, so if any progress is going to be made, if any movement in the direction of peacekeeping is going to happen, Israel has to initiate it.

1 hunting down terrorists and their supporters (look closer to home)

2 It is if they are walking in front of a tank in order to slow it down for an easy shot with an RPG (but not if their walking to school and get crushed beneath caterpillar tracks)

3 If they don't want to deal with the Israeli military they could stop shooting women and children and blowing up busses filled with working people and school kids. (maybe they would if the israelis left their land and stopped killing their women and children)



we could go on for ever. lets not

see you

no, most suicide bomber don't attack for allah - it's not a primarily (note that i said primarily please before posting) a religious conflict - it is a conflict over land rights. there are of course religious facets to the divide. it's true there are suicide bombers who will kill for the money. there are also those who will kill for their people's rights to land they see as their own. however i have no access to figures which either to be the most popular cause. mainly because the protagonists of the bombings are generally dead before they can provide their reasons.

by your reasoning then, if the displaced iraqis from fallujah had been offered part of hawaii and accepted it (because 'who wouldn't') it would rightly be theres and any violent resistance by hawaiian people would be out of line - the iraquis would be in the right?

Also don't tell me that the wall is a counter terrorism measure - it is a device of segregation put in place by a self insulated racial group and one of it's direct effects is to hinder honest palestinians in search of gainful employment. it might be worth considering that if more palestinians were employed than money would not be such a factor in their choices to become bombers
You, sir, are a conspiracy theorist. The wall is most definately a conterterrorism measure. Don't you think Israeli companies would like to hire palestinian laborers? A bigger labor pool means they could pay lower wages. It's a fact that since the wall went up terrorism in Israel went down. You seem to have a blind adherence to the palestinians.

we could go on for ever. lets not

see you


Your right, just give up now, and go to a land we're your actually accepted. Oh wait you can't, not even the Arabs want you, since your used as a political tool against Israel. darn...

Look to sum up comments.

Israel didn't steal the land, they didn't start the fight, Israel terraformed the land practically. Israel isn't even on the UN security council, they are condemned every 2 seconds. and the arabs hide behind children when attacking, since it'll make the Israeli's look bad when fighting. What don't you get out of this? Israel is suffering..not Arabs. Go look at Israel on a globe. Go there right now. Seriously.
Israel is being condemned by the UN because muslim nations voting in a bloc will always try to use the UN to do what their armies can't, eliminate Israel. Also European countries will back the muslims in the vote so they can ensure that muslim markets will be more open to European products than American or Chinese.

Fear is different from respect and fear is overcome by hatred. I make no comment on who is right or wrong at this point. It seems to me however that Isreali tactics do not really encourage a peaceful resolution either their or anyone else's favour. The would seem rather to promote the continuation of violence by both sides indefinately.
One never respects a group that doesn't defend itself.

Israel is because Palestine continues to attack not only Israelis but when they blow up those buses, there are tourists on those. Or were. I only sympathize with the innocents in Palestine, the groups doing the bombings are asshole terrorists.

One never respects a group that doesn't defend itself.
Very true but that is the difficult part. This is the sad thing is that each side has become increasingly entrenched in a black and white view of their enemy so there is very little room for manover. These positions have spread to the wider world so that it has become very diffucult to have a conversation on the matter without it being exactly the same conversation as it always is.
Until both sides are able to be just a tiny bit flexible, to glimpse, just a little, how the other side sees them, then nothing will change as they will continue to repeat the same conflict over and over. The terrible thing is that unlike here where it goes on in words alone, there both peoples are paying in the blood and lives of their kith and kin.
Who started it and who is in the right or wrong becomes meaningless when neither one is able to admit the slightest mistake or misjudgement. Self criticism has become impossible. I sincerely hope that a way can be found for both sides to rediscover empathy and responsibility for their own actions but I fear it will take a long time and cost a great many more lives, both Jewish and Palestinian before it happens.

You, sir, are a conspiracy theorist. The wall is most definately a conterterrorism measure. Don't you think Israeli companies would like to hire palestinian laborers? A bigger labor pool means they could pay lower wages. It's a fact that since the wall went up terrorism in Israel went down. You seem to have a blind adherence to the palestinians.


back for a quickie. conspiracy theorist maybe (and i admit that that one was a bit out there). as for a blind adherence to the palestinians, i do not have that either. i do however have a view regarding the question that started this thread. that the palestinians are more in the right. i don't deny that some attrocities have been carried out by palestinians. i am also not blinded by misplaced loyalty or sympathy to a nation that, once given a gift of land and a new start, has sought to oppress it's new neighbours using brutal tactics. the facts are that i am not stating - palestinians are always in the right. basically i had my opinion when i joined the thgread and nothing said by yourself or muhore has changed my mind yet. sorry

I'm sorry...but your comments still don't make sense.

Retype them using spacing when necessary. Why... in point form, is "palestine" (arabs) more right then the Israelis... I still cannot understand this logic.

I believe both sides have claim to the land. It's a very complex situation really going back thousands of years. That is why I think both have claim, thus they need to learn to live together.

I think that Israel has acted like a bunch of spoiled brat children to be honest and have hidden behind the support of the United States to justify their actions while the Palestinians have hid behind terrorism and oppression to justify theirs.

End of the day, both are at fault for the whole situation. I think both sides have been unreasonable for too long. If they could just agree to split Jerusalem down the middle I think they could end the conflict. As Jerusalem seems to really be the last point of contention. That was the 3% of disputed land in the last peace talks that took place. Neither side wanted to budge on it because they both see it as "holy" land.

So just split it and be done with it!

I believe both sides have claim to the land. It's a very complex situation really going back thousands of years. That is why I think both have claim, thus they need to learn to live together.

True, in theory they both have claims...but they are no longer the Canaanites..they are Arabs now. The arabs will probably never want to live with them in peace, maybe someday, but defiently not now.

I think that Israel has acted like a bunch of spoiled brat children to be honest and have hidden behind the support of the United States to justify their actions while the Palestinians have hid behind terrorism and oppression to justify theirs.

TO justify..? I think getting attacked is a just enough reason, or do they have to wait until they get nuked a thousand times, before they can consider even arresting someone? Israel hides behind the US as much as the arabs fight in open streets. They don't. America supports them, because they know their actions are justified.

End of the day, both are at fault for the whole situation. I think both sides have been unreasonable for too long. If they could just agree to split Jerusalem down the middle I think they could end the conflict. As Jerusalem seems to really be the last point of contention. That was the 3% of disputed land in the last peace talks that took place. Neither side wanted to budge on it because they both see it has "holy" land.

And unlike the arabs, we'd allow them to visit jerusalem whenever they wanted, they'd probably commit genocide, and prevent us from going to the wall. Your comments are really stupid steph.

So just split it and be done with it!
So you suggest, make Israel even smaller, have less defensible land. Compared to moving the arabs away to a land which shares their language, religion and customs. Really smart decsision there. :rolleyes:

back for a quickie. conspiracy theorist maybe (and i admit that that one was a bit out there). as for a blind adherence to the palestinians, i do not have that either. i do however have a view regarding the question that started this thread. that the palestinians are more in the right. i don't deny that some attrocities have been carried out by palestinians. i am also not blinded by misplaced loyalty or sympathy to a nation that, once given a gift of land and a new start, has sought to oppress it's new neighbours using brutal tactics. the facts are that i am not stating - palestinians are always in the right. basically i had my opinion when i joined the thgread and nothing said by yourself or muhore has changed my mind yet. sorry
Opress their neighbors? Israeli arabs (muslim ones too) have pretty much the same rights as Israeli Jews. They hold seats on the knesset. It's Israel's neighbors that wanted to destroy them, not the other way around. Also there have been many more terrorist acts by palestinians than by Israelis. The palestinian terrorists almost always target civilians.

So you suggest, make Israel even smaller, have less defensible land. Compared to moving the arabs away to a land which shares their language, religion and customs. Really smart decsision there. :rolleyes:
Do you realise that forced resettlement of a population is ethinic cleansing?

Do you realise that forced resettlement of a population is ethinic cleansing?
When was there forced resettlement? The palestinian "refugees" left willingly to enable the arab nations to attack Israel more freely. Is it any wonder Israel won't let them return? That's like the US inviting Al Quaeda to come into the US freely.

Do you realise that forced resettlement of a population is ethinic cleansing?



So is blowing up yourself on a bus full of civilians.

I say do the same thing with the settlers... give them money to get bye, and send them packing.

That would be the best idea in the world. But only Jordan allows Palestinian immigrants. All the countries shun them from society. Well technically there are other countries... like America or Canada, but we're talking shared language and customs.

Wonderful. Make a reasonable and detailled post explaining my whole point of view and it gets ignored. Make a quick statement and it gets pounced on...such is forum life I suppose.

Anyway, I never said they had been forcibly moved. I was responding to;

So you suggest, make Israel even smaller, have less defensible land. Compared to moving the arabs away to a land which shares their language, religion and customs. Really smart decsision there.
which unless I read it wrong is suggesting that course of action. I was interested to see if MuhOre was aware how this would be defined under international law.

Blowing yourself up on a bus is defined as an act of terrorism by international law and not ethinic cleansing.

So is blowing up yourself on a bus full of civilians.
Blowing oneself up on a bus full of civilians--a dispicable act, granted--is not by definition ethnic cleansing. It's terrorism.

TO justify..? I think getting attacked is a just enough reason, or do they have to wait until they get nuked a thousand times, before they can consider even arresting someone? Israel hides behind the US as much as the arabs fight in open streets. They don't. America supports them, because they know their actions are justified.

I am well aware that you are an Israeli.. thus I don't expect you to be objective, I probably wouldn't be either if I were you.


So you suggest, make Israel even smaller, have less defensible land. Compared to moving the arabs away to a land which shares their language, religion and customs. Really smart decsision there. :rolleyes:

See above..

However, lets not forget Palestine was only allowed to keep 22% of the land after 1948.. I don't think Israel has much to complain about when they already have the lions share of the land to begin with.

I mean it really comes down to do you want peace or don't you? If you want peace than both sides have to make some concessions. It's that simple.

I say do the same thing with the settlers... give them money to get bye, and send them packing.

That would be the best idea in the world. But only Jordan allows Palestinian immigrants. All the countries shun them from society. Well technically there are other countries... like America or Canada, but we're talking shared language and customs.
Jordan should allow all the palestinians to move in. After all, there never was a nation called palestine. It was part of Trans Jordan, currently called Jordan. The palestinians are Jordanians.

I am well aware that you are an Israeli.. thus I don't expect you to be objective, I probably wouldn't be either if I were you.




See above..

However, lets not forget Palestine was only allowed to keep 22% of the land after 1948.. I don't think Israel has much to complain about when they already have the lions share of the land to begin with.

I mean it really comes down to do you want peace or don't you? If you want peace than both sides have to make some concessions. It's that simple.
But Palestine didn't exist as a nation. It was a part of trans jordan.

Jordan should allow all the palestinians to move in. After all, there never was a nation called palestine. It was part of Trans Jordan, currently called Jordan. The palestinians are Jordanians.
However they disagree which leaves an awkward problem. I am very aware that British Imperialism has alot to answer for in terms of the more recent national boundaries in the region (as it does in many places) and that may be why although it was made to be part of Trans Jordan before they still do not consider themselves Jordanians.

Blowing yourself up on a bus is defined as an act of terrorism by international law and not ethinic cleansing.

It counts as Ethnic Cleansing if the point is to kill them, for the sake of killing.

I am well aware that you are an Israeli.. thus I don't expect you to be objective, I probably wouldn't be either if I were you.

Actually i'm Canadian, but i consider myself more Israeli. But still i get what you mean.


However, lets not forget Palestine was only allowed to keep 22% of the land after 1948.. I don't think Israel has much to complain about when they already have the lions share on the land to begin with.

Israel was happy as is, They were just happy to be alive after WW2, they didn't want all this animosity.

I mean it really comes down to do you want peace or don't you? If you want peace than both sides have to make some concessions. It's that simple.

We want peace, but i do not think splitting the land is intelligent, there are plenty of places for the arabs to go to, if they want an arab state... if those arabs were to open their borders. the conflict might've been over more or less.

Any arabs that wanna stay, because they would rather have democracy, science and free speech are also welcome. But not the activists would like to see Israel split or worse destroyed.

Jordan should allow all the palestinians to move in. After all, there never was a nation called palestine. It was part of Trans Jordan, currently called Jordan. The palestinians are Jordanians.

I think they already do... aren;t 2/3rds of Jordanians, Palestinians now?

But Palestine didn't exist as a nation. It was a part of trans jordan.

That is quite irrelevant to today's situation though now isn't it? They exist now and they aren't going any where. It really does come down to how badly these two people's want peace. As long as Israel keeps that sort of attitude (which I don't believe they have at the moment) they will be in an unending war/state of terrorism. I would think that safety and security is worth making some concessions. It's only freaking land, it's not worth all of this. Israel still comes out with way more land than the Palestinians would. It's stupid to keep fighting over 3% of it.

That is quite irrelevant to today's situation though now isn't it? They exist now and they aren't going any where. It really does come down to how badly these two people's want peace. As long as Israel keeps that sort of attitude (which I don't believe they have at the moment) they will be in an unending war/state of terrorism. I would think that safety and security is worth making some concessions. It's only freaking land, it's not worth all of this. Israel still comes out with way more land than the Palestinians would. It's stupid to keep fighting over 3% of it.


Actually it is all about the land... what if something were to happen to a jew somewhere? They can't keep running forever, they need a permanent home. I think more pressure should be put on arabs to let the Palestinians in their land. They're all related.

I think this thread is depressing. It seems like proof that the conflict will never end, because the two sides will never agree. It also shows how some people are completely unable to see reason, or are just so convinced they're right that they ignore important facts, or twist them their way.

Since I *really* can't be bothered answering all the nonsense that was written in here, having read, listened and seen this sort of stuff a million times before, I'll just say that I think it's really sad that there is only one person (who seems to have given up by now anyway) who directly said he supports the Palestinians.

That's not to say I think the Palestinians are always right, or that their actions are completely justified, or that I agree with many of the things that they've been doing. I don't. I think terrorism is an unspeakable crime, and that really compromises their position.

But there is such a thing as 'State Terrorism', although people usually associate terrorism with individuals (look up Igor Primoratz in google if you can be bothered, he wrote some stuff about it), and Israel (or rather the IDF) uses it regularly.

So, although I think the Palestinians have done some horrific things, when asked "Who do you think is more in the right", I'd answer that the Palestinians are.


I am well aware that you are an Israeli.. thus I don't expect you to be objective, I probably wouldn't be either if I were you.


I resent that! ;) I'm an Israeli, and I believe I'm capable of being objective, thank-you-very-much..

Oh, and don't split Jerusalem! That'd be so sad :(
I think Jerusalem should be both Israeli and Palestinian, it's a holy city for three religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam) and as such it should house people of all three religions. Religion is meant to bring people together (says the atheist, heh), not tear them apart, and I don't see why Jerusalem can't have people of different religions and ethnic backgrounds living in it. They should just learn to live together and overcome their prejudices.

Oh, and don't split Jerusalem! That'd be so sad :(
I think Jerusalem should be both Israeli and Palestinian, it's a holy city for three religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam) and as such it should house people of all three religions.

That would work too! I would agree personally. However I some how doubt Palestine & Israel will.

Just remember, kids: The only difference between a terrorist and a soldier is funding.

Just remember, kids: The only difference between a terrorist and a soldier is funding.

I agree with that statement. If the terrorists had the same funding.. they wouldn't be terrorists.. they would go after militarty and strategic targets too. So true!

I agree with that statement. If the terrorists had the same funding.. they wouldn't be terrorists.. they would go after militarty and strategic targets too. So true!

Yes ..... just like all good soldiers ....

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-01-08-iraq-bombing_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA

:(

I admit i haven't read all this thread but all i have to say about this 2 countries is that, i don't give a shit! A lot of people tried them get in peace with eachother. Everytime the process was running good something happened to undermine it. that makes me believe that they are not that really interested in a lasting peace. So, why the hell should i feel terrible watching news about those who like to engage in war?

I'm 25. All of my life news reports were filled with this subject! I'm sick of it! I kinda developed a shell over this matter! Israelis? Palestinians? The hell with them!

yeah - if people have been in place for years and you want their tuff - why not steal it. then commit various attrocities, breach more human rights acts than half the 'terrorist' (read: oil producing) nations of the world and get the americans to back you. you must be right


Ever read Genesis, Exodus, etc?

That was the Jews' Promised Land and they occupied it lonnnnng before Mohammed even existed. So... is it possible to steal the land of your people from someone else? hmmm.

The Palestinians likely are descended from the Phillistines of the Bible... they did not live in what is now Israel, or so biblical maps show.

Ever read Genesis, Exodus, etc?

That was the Jews' Promised Land and they occupied it lonnnnng before Mohammed even existed. So... is it possible to steal the land of your people from someone else? hmmm.


Why don't you read it yourself?

In order for the Jews to get Israel, they had to take it from the Canaanites ... so, yeah, it is possible.

Ever read Genesis, Exodus, etc?

That was the Jews' Promised Land and they occupied it lonnnnng before Mohammed even existed. So... is it possible to steal the land of your people from someone else? hmmm.

The Palestinians likely are descended from the Phillistines of the Bible... they did not live in what is now Israel, or so biblical maps show.

The bible is an invaild argument.

Palestine, whether its a nation or not, was there first. The Israelis moved in after WW2 and basically stole the land, it was not offered by anyone.

And, working from someone's comment (I forget who), the Berlin wall was an anti-terror measure. It's the same thing as the Israeli wall, so why not rebuild that?
If the wall does not fit into the same category as the Berlin wall (which it does), then it is basically a way of turning the Palestinian area into a containment area (wait, wasn't that one of the reasons why everyone went after Germany in WW2, the concentration camps?)

And the Palestinians are rebelling for the same reason anyone else would, they've had their home invaded and stolen by someone else.

As I said, the Jews were just looking for a permanent home, and Britain offered and provided them with one, and after the holocaust we were about to take whatever we could get to restart our lives.

and yes, Britain made a mess out of it :p

Although I'm a strong supporter of Israel, I can understand what palestine is doing. I have lost family and friends to Palestinian terror, I know what it's like to go through that pain, and families in Palestine feel the same thing after an Israel air strike.

I just wish no-one had to feel this pain anymore, I pray for peace, but while this retaliation war continues, nothing will ever be solved. I just hope Abbas will be able to have peace talks with Israel and create a ceasefire for Palestine terror groups.

For the record the wall isn't all bad either, it has stopped terror attacks by 88% this year alone.

Also at least Israel is making an effort to help, i.e the pullout of settlements in Gaza.

I salute the Israeli government and the IDF, and just hope peace can come soon.

The bible is an invaild argument.

The Bible isn't an argument per se... just the basis for one.

And it is NOT invalid. lmao. it's the recorded (much of it) history of Israel.

Like I said, they were there 5000ish years ago... they were kicked out... it is not wrong at all that it is theirs again.

Maybe there could be a Palestinian state... that'd be fine with me. But historically that land is Israel. (or Israel and Judah).

Palestine, whether its a nation or not, was there first. The Israelis moved in after WW2 and basically stole the land, it was not offered by anyone.

And, working from someone's comment (I forget who), the Berlin wall was an anti-terror measure. It's the same thing as the Israeli wall, so why not rebuild that?
If the wall does not fit into the same category as the Berlin wall (which it does), then it is basically a way of turning the Palestinian area into a containment area (wait, wasn't that one of the reasons why everyone went after Germany in WW2, the concentration camps?)

And the Palestinians are rebelling for the same reason anyone else would, they've had their home invaded and stolen by someone else.
1 Jews didn't force muslims in Israel from their homes. It was the muslims that tried to force out the Jews. The muslims lost.

2 West Berlin's relatives weren't shooting entire East Berlin families as they drove off to vote. West Berlin residents didn't blow themselves up on busses filled with working people and schoolkids. The palestinians brought the wall on themselves.

My God. People Suck. Sorry, it's not directed personally at anyone, but really, this thread shows how this conflict will *never* get settled.

Anyway, it doesn't matter who was there first, in terms of thousands of years ago: it matters who was there when the Jews were "given" Israel (or pieces of it.. and, by the way, part of that declaration by the UN stated that the Jews must respect the rights of the locals already living there), and the Palestinians (or who we today call the Palestinians) were there. The fact that Jews were forced out thousands of years ago by the Turks or whatever is so completely irrelevant it's funny. Anyway, if the UN gave the Jews Israel, shouldn't Israel respect UN laws? I mean, if this declaration counts in Israel's eyes, it means that it recognises the UN as a legitimate authorative body. But Israel's been ignoring the UN consistently and regularly pretty much from 1948, whenever it didn't quite suit its interests. So really, either you don't respect what the UN decides, in which case Israel isn't really the Jew's, or you do, in which case most Israeli Prime Ministers should be in the Hague now, and Israel should certainly not be occupying the 1967 territories. And should be letting Palestinian refugees come back to their homes. And many many other things. But it doesn't seem to be doing that. It doesn't make sense.

And yes, there are Palestinian refugees. I have no idea where some people got the idea that they "willingly left to let the enemies attack Israel", and maybe a few did, but most were forced out. Or killed. These are facts, go read history books.

Umm, I'll stop ranting now. I just wish everyone who just "has opinions" would check out their facts before being so sure they're right and everyone else is wrong. And not just their facts, but all the relevant facts. It doesn't help to have a few figures and ignore the others that prove your opinion's incorrect.

Opress their neighbors? Israeli arabs (muslim ones too) have pretty much the same rights as Israeli Jews. They hold seats on the knesset. It's Israel's neighbors that wanted to destroy them, not the other way around. Also there have been many more terrorist acts by palestinians than by Israelis. The palestinian terrorists almost always target civilians.

You're wrong. Acts against civilians by the Israeli military is not called terrorism simply because they are the military. But we all know that's exactly what it is. How is shooting little children in the head not terrorism? And yes, that happens. Stop lieing to yourself. We all know that hatred is bred on both sides, and your average Israeli serviceman enjoys smiting any member of that "vile race" and doesn't discriminate based on age.