NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6822028/

in response from representative of the people in support of creationism as the only truth and science as the devil

“Science and religion are related and they’re not mutually exclusive,” school district attorney Linwood Gunn said. “This sticker was an effort to get past that conflict and to teach good science.”

because we all know, the first step to teaching good science and getting past the religion v science conflict is a sticker instilling doubts in science in the students

I hate that. I really hate it. So much I have nothing else to say. Opening people's pool of knowledge can only happen when all possibilities are considered. Do people want to know what the devil is? Ignorance...

Evolution Is Only A Theory. Stop Acting Like Its A Proven Fact.

Evolution Is Only A Theory. Stop Acting Like Its A Proven Fact.
stop acting like its imaginary and christian creationism is the only other thing there is

Evolution is a fact and anyone who believes otherwise obviously hasn't bothered to evolve beyond stupidity.

Evolution isn't a fact: it's a theory. All of science is theoretical... The Bible on the other hand is 100% correct, through and through..!

Evolution isn't a fact: it's a theory. All of science is theoretical... The Bible on the other hand is 100% correct, through and through..!

But of course!

Oh yeah science is just full of logic!

Scientist- Well one day the universe just appeared and before that there was nothing but anyway it just appeared and then earth got here and chemicals suddenly turned into life which changed over time bringing us here!

Yeah, science is brilliant :rolleyes: .

Evolution isn't a fact: it's a theory. All of science is theoretical... The Bible on the other hand is 100% correct, through and through..!
Even after 3 translations from Aramaic, to Hebrew, to Latin, to English? c.c
The passage in one of the gospels that states that Jesus walked on water can actually ALSO be translated from the Hebrew version as be translated as Jesus walked BY the water. I always found that amusing. :D

I'm not even going to look.

Oh yeah science is just full of logic!

Scientist- Well one day the universe just appeared and before that there was nothing but anyway it just appeared and then earth got here and chemicals suddenly turned into life which changed over time bringing us here!

Yeah, science is brilliant :rolleyes: .
wow that would be witty and dunny - were it true


there is no magical "the universe suddenly appeared and nothing was there before" thats CREATIONISM, science says that the world came from some superexpansion of some super dense matter, which is completely IRRELEVANT as it has nothing to do with evolution

Oh yeah science is just full of logic!

Scientist- Well one day the universe just appeared and before that there was nothing but anyway it just appeared and then earth got here and chemicals suddenly turned into life which changed over time bringing us here!

Yeah, science is brilliant :rolleyes: .

As opposed to the 'magical father figure in the sky' theory. The Big Bang has left signs of itself, 'God' has left nothing except for people claiming to speak for him.

wow that would be witty and dunny - were it true


there is no magical "the universe suddenly appeared and nothing was there before" thats CREATIONISM, science says that the world came from some superexpansion of some super dense matter, which is completely IRRELEVANT as it has nothing to do with evolution

How did the matter get there? How is it so perfectly organized? Where did the universe come from? With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce? If monkeys evolved into humans then why are there still monkeys?

wow that would be witty and dunny - were it true


there is no magical "the universe suddenly appeared and nothing was there before" thats CREATIONISM, science says that the world came from some superexpansion of some super dense matter, which is completely IRRELEVANT as it has nothing to do with evolution

Thank you for pointing that out. ;)

Even after 3 translations from Aramaic, to Hebrew, to Latin, to English? c.c
The passage in one of the gospels that states that Jesus walked on water can actually ALSO be translated from the Hebrew version as be translated as Jesus walked BY the water. I always found that amusing. :D
Actually the Old Testament was originally written in Greek, so there's that translation too.

Besides How thrilled would Christians be if someone put a sticker at the beginning of Genesis: "Creationism is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. The material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered."

Oh yeah science is just full of logic!

Scientist- Well one day the universe just appeared and before that there was nothing but anyway it just appeared and then earth got here and chemicals suddenly turned into life which changed over time bringing us here!

Yeah, science is brilliant :rolleyes: .

Hehe. Well science isn't perfect, and it doesn't claim to be. Hell, wait, not being perfect is the whole basis of scientific innovation! Speed doesn't equal distance over time. But it's damn close!

Like I said before. Everything in the Bible is 100% factually correct, through and through!

Another scientific theory is that the universe just existed. Time is objectively static and we only seem to be "moving through it" subjectively. ;)

Besides How thrilled would Christians be if someone put a sticker at the beginning of Genesis: "Creationism is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. The material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered."

Very thrilled I imagine!

How did the matter get there? How is it so perfectly organized? Where did the universe come from? With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce? If monkeys evolved into humans then why are there still monkeys?

Where did God come from?

How did the matter get there? How is it so perfectly organized? Where did the universe come from? With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce? If monkeys evolved into humans then why are there still monkeys?

How come God hasn't shown up in 2000 years?

Sigh. Silly Christians.

Has anyone seen those "fish" things that go on your car, only the fish have like, feet, and it says "Darwin" instead of Jesus?

Haha. I love it.

How did the matter get there? How is it so perfectly organized? Where did the universe come from? With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce? If monkeys evolved into humans then why are there still monkeys?

God made matter. God perfectly organised the world. God produced the universe. God made the cell in his own image and it used the matter to reproduce. God made monkey and humans.

Where did God come from?

From the poo of the antelope that flows onto the ground.

Actually the Old Testament was originally written in Greek, so there's that translation too.

Actually no...when the old testament was written, greek was not a language....

The NT was written in greek....

How did the matter get there? How is it so perfectly organized? Where did the universe come from? With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce? If monkeys evolved into humans then why are there still monkeys?
matter is indestructable, matter and energy, laws of thermal dynamics.

and i just told you where the universe came from


nothing is perfectly organized, are you high?


cells reproduce asexually, once they develop into higher beings they would produce another being, what kind of damn question is that? what do humans produce when they reproduce sexually? a fucking leprechaun?


and the last one is because you are dense. some monkeys wouldve evolved into humans, some wouldnt have. its called natural selection look it up. over millenia natural selection leads to even more extreme changes than normal. and besides the point, "monkeys" didnt evolve into humans at all, both humans and monkeys developed from a common anthropoid ancestor

Oh but he has, but like the Jews didn't reconise Jesus the Christians didn't reconise Muhammad.

From the poo of the antelope that flows onto the ground.

Hahaha.
I love you.

Question for those who believe evolution is only a theory:

Do you still believe that the Earth is flat, or that a giant scarab beetle rolls the sun across the sky every day? Should school children not be taught geography or astonomy at school?

Oh but he has, but like the Jews didn't reconise Jesus the Christians didn't reconise Muhammad.
and no one recognized bob the crazy mother fucker on the street corner

How did the matter get there? How is it so perfectly organized? Where did the universe come from? With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce? If monkeys evolved into humans then why are there still monkeys?
Why is there such a mutability of species then on the planet? Hmmm? Because everything stays static because the church ORDERS it so? Because everything else revolves around us and hey it's better to ignore any information that comes in the very understanding of things and call it blasphemy otherwise since we're all too weak and immature to handle adapting to our environment?
Is that it?
Isn't the very nature of understanding things as you grow an adaptation to the REALITIES of things you didn't understand before or even know, even if you tried to IGNORE them in the first place?
It's been said. Which nature is there actual empirical evidence of?
Which is there more to define the reality of things actually happening in real time .... a bunch of statements and misinterpretations of a static "theory" (actually keeping in tradition of selective repetition of psychological preferences in a "historical" setting) or applicable cases of mutation, adaptation and flux that you can see, grasp, prey UNDERSTAND in a testable environment?
...really.
And there needs to be JUST A TAD MORE to supplement the idea IN THE FIRST PLACE that "God" EVER MADE "it's" creation of things and evolution ON ANY level to be mutually exclusive. Other than heresay or adherence to unprovable rhetoric.

matter is indestructable, matter and energy, laws of thermal dynamics.

and i just told you where the universe came from


nothing is perfectly organized, are you high?


cells reproduce asexually, once they develop into higher beings they would produce another being, what kind of damn question is that? what do humans produce when they reproduce sexually? a fucking leprechaun?


and the last one is because you are dense. some monkeys wouldve evolved into humans, some wouldnt have. its called natural selection look it up. over millenia natural selection leads to even more extreme changes than normal. and besides the point, "monkeys" didnt evolve into humans at all, both humans and monkeys developed from a common anthropoid ancestor

pwned m8

Question for those who believe evolution is only a theory:

Do you still believe that the Earth is flat, or that a giant scarab beetle rolls the sun across the sky every day? Should school children not be taught geography or astonomy at school?

Evolution is only a theory... But more and more evidence is being collected to back it up...

Like I said before. Everything in the Bible is 100% factually correct, through and through!


By it's very nature, the Bible cannot be factually correct. It is not physically possible to walk on water with 1st century technology. In fact, it's just not possible to walk on water unaided. Period.

Besides, the Bible says it's perfectly OK to sell your firstborn daughter into slavery. I imagine many people do that.

How did the matter get there? How is it so perfectly organized? Where did the universe come from? With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce? If monkeys evolved into humans then why are there still monkeys?

It's not perfectly organized. If it were, all of the planets would be equally distant from perfect stars all perfectly capable of supporting life.

The first cell went through MITOSIS, aka the process of dividing into 2 beings. Monkeys that you see today did not evolve into humans. Humans were a race of monkey like beings that over time evolved.

By it's very nature, the Bible cannot be factually correct. It is not physically possible to walk on water with 1st century technology. In fact, it's just not possible to walk on water unaided. Period.

Besides, the Bible says it's perfectly OK to sell your firstborn daughter into slavery. I imagine many people do that.


YOU SHALL BURN IN THE FIERY PITS OF HELL!

How did the matter get there? How is it so perfectly organized? Where did the universe come from? With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce? If monkeys evolved into humans then why are there still monkeys?

We have yet to determine that how the matter got there, that doesn't mean there is no logical explaination, we don't need magic to explain things.

Matter is not in any way 'perfectly' organized, the universe is chaotic.

No one claims humans came from monkeys. It is claimed that humans have a common ancestor with chimps, chimps and proto-humans evolved differently to fulfil different roles in their ecosystem.

YOU SHALL BURN IN THE FIERY PITS OF HELL!

You're talking to an Atheist. Flamer.

I agree with full force in the removal of the stickers not just because I'm an athiest who believes in the Big Bang/Evolution/No Noah's ark. But because the stickers clearly contradict with the U.S. Doctrine of the seperation of Church and State. Both fundamental institutions in modern society, however, when mixed the two can literally destroy years of progress in this doctrine. The Monarchies of Europe were dominated by the Church, and therefor we all know by history what a profound effect religion has on a nation's national government. Stating that "The Theory of Evolution contradicts with religious beliefs" is practically saying that someday this doctrine might fail if not carried out with 100% force.

As far as I'm concerned, the theory of Creation still doesn't snag me. Where did "God" come from, who made him?

See, I find it hard to believe that God just "appeared" ... I'm more willing to think that the Big Bang created most everything, instead of.. some "God" popping up from nothing and being the one to put the blocks together.

Science can give harder proof than "oh, #### years ago, Jesus did that, and said he could do that. So he did it today!" and some old text that was written at the mercy of the human authors.

I agree with full force in the removal of the stickers not just because I'm an athiest who believes in the Big Bang/Evolution/No Noah's ark. But because the stickers clearly contradict with the U.S. Doctrine of the seperation of Church and State. Both fundamental institutions in modern society, however, when mixed the two can literally destroy years of progress in this doctrine. The Monarchies of Europe were dominated by the Church, and therefor we all know by history what a profound effect religion has on a nation's national government. Stating that "The Theory of Evolution contradicts with religious beliefs" is practically saying that someday this doctrine might fail if not carried out with 100% force.
i oppose it because its stupidity concentrate and another blatant move by the fundamentalists in the nation to try and assert their superiority overeveryone then whine about oppression when they are told they cant do whatever they damn well please

How did the matter get there? How is it so perfectly organized? Where did the universe come from?
Fast and easy answer? We don't really know exactly. BUT, big bang theory and divine creation both require a leap of faith. The difference being, big bang theory only asks you to jump a puddle, not a lake.
With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?
It's called asexual reproduction, bacteria do it (without actually 'doing it' :p) all the time.
If monkeys evolved into humans then why are there still monkeys?
The semantic answer would be this: evolution says that humans evolved from apes, not monkeys. Monkeys are lower order primates, human diverge from them biologically at the Hominoidea super family. As for what happened to the apes then. Simple. If you have two full glasses of water and knock one over, the other is still full, right? Similar analogy to apes. The breeding population of a particular region of East Africa developed traits that helped it survive better in that region. Why would that instantly require the apes in central and west Africa to change to match the environment of east Africa as well?

Edit: Looks like Chess Squares beat me to it, oh well I'm leaving it.

You're talking to an Atheist. Flamer.

Sarcasm. ;) Hint Hint ;)

You're talking to an agnostic. And we're both going to burn in the fiery pits of hell!!

and no one recognized bob the crazy mother fucker on the street corner
I did, and he has some good ideas too. His ideas are to... uh... I forget... but it involved a lot of... uh... things...

How did the matter get there? How is it so perfectly organized? Where did the universe come from? With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce? If monkeys evolved into humans then why are there still monkeys?

The matter always existed, from the universes previous, where maybe the laws of physics allowed for the creation of matter from nothing. The theory is that at the Big Bang, the laws of the universe were formed, unique to this universe. The gravitational constant, planck time, laws of thermodynamics, everything. And the first cell probably was able to reproduce asexually and sexually, therefore, it could divide and then reproduce sexually. It could then give off offspring with a full range of characteristics it had and at the same time they would have genetic variance, or it could have combined with a different cell similar enough so that it could force sexual reproduction. And we did not evolve from monkeys, only idiots revert to that line of thought as an absolute. we may have had a common ancestor species. Have you ever seen the depictions of cavemen, the hairy apelike people which supposedly learned to walk completely upright, using tools to hunt, and eventually needed less hair? That's the leading theory. From Australopithecines, to Neanderthal, to Homo Erectus, to Homo Sapiens (us). There are skeletons found that show "men" and "women" that aren't physically human, but are close, and couldn't be any other species at all. the belief is that sometime before that, there was something we haven't yet found that branched into two groups that became more specialized for their environments, one eventually becomes human, the other branches off into the rest of the great apes.

Sarcasm. ;) Hint Hint ;)

You're talking to an agnostic. And we're both going to burn in the fiery pits of hell!!

Actually, accorindg to Dante (the author), GOOD Atheists live at the top of Hell, where it's nice, but slightly sad.

Agnostics live below there.

i'm glad to see some of the more faithfull message board participants coming out in support of their beliefs... far too often these progressives say anything they want without any argument... it's time for christions and all people of faith to come out and defend the fact that western culture is all based around christianity and it seems to be working out pretty well so far.

Science and religion are the same thing, they just arent the same. if you catch my drift

two ways of explaining why and how things happened, they just differ on the details..

it's time for christions and all people of faith to come out and defend the fact that western culture is all based around christianity and it seems to be working out pretty well so far.

...
Hahahaha.
Well, okay.
Just be ready to... "defend".
...
Hahahaha.

Actually, accorindg to Dante (the author), GOOD Atheists live at the top of Hell, where it's nice, but slightly sad.

Agnostics live below there.

That sucks...I'm going to be burnt like a hot dog!! I think I'm tending towards atheism.. But since nothing can be proven...I'm an agnostic as well. Maybe I'll be only a few metres below you...we won't know till we get there.

Science and religion are the same thing, they just arent the same. if you catch my drift

two ways of explaining why and how things happened, they just differ on the details..

No.
Science= Fact.
Religion= Myth and Whim.

...
Hahahaha.
Well, okay.
Just be ready to... "defend".
...
Hahahaha.

Nazi.

No.
Science= Fact.
Religion= Myth and Whim.

Science isn't fact.

Actually, accorindg to Dante (the author), GOOD Atheists live at the top of Hell, where it's nice, but slightly sad.

Agnostics live below there.

Well, Dante can go fuck himself.

No.
Science= Fact.
Religion= Myth and Whim.


Jenn Jenn Land=wrong

Nazi.
That was uncalled for. Lol.

i'm glad to see some of the more faithfull message board participants coming out in support of their beliefs... far too often these progressives say anything they want without any argument... it's time for christions and all people of faith to come out and defend the fact that western culture is all based around christianity and it seems to be working out pretty well so far.

1. You spelled christians wrong.

2. If by worked out, you mean gone on a global rampage that destroyed the freedoms of other people, and at the same time dispute with the two other major religions over a city sitting on a strip of land smaller than New Jersey, then yes, it's worked out fine.

You are, however, still entitled to your opinion.

No.
Science= Fact.
Religion= Myth and Whim.

Science = Theory backed by evidence and tested predictions.
Religion = Faith.

Science = Theory backed by evidence and tested predictions.
Religion = Faith.

Hear! Hear!

Actually, accorindg to Dante (the author), GOOD Atheists live at the top of Hell, where it's nice, but slightly sad.

Agnostics live below there.

Wrong.
Agnostics don't even get in hell according to Dante.
And it's "righteous" athiests that lived before Christ that are in Limbo.

Evolution isn't a theory really... Its a well established scientific fact that isn't disputed within the scientific community at all.

It also doesn't have anything to do with where life comes from. (Rather it has to do with natural selection and the changes in species over time. The study of where life originally came from is called abiogenesis.)

Evolution also is not mutually exclusive with a belief in God. Nor is it so that no scientists belief in God. (Some do, some don't, just like non-scientists.)


Obviously it IS mutually exclusive with a literal reading of Genesis. But according to Genesis there was a global flood that happened because God opened the gates of heavens. Which are little doors holding up all that water that makes the sky blue. Genesis also claims many other such things such as Bats being birds, grasshoppers having four legs, snakes eating dusts and rabbits chewing the cud.

Also, if the bible is 100% factual, it wouldn't contradict itself, but it does so quite often. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html (go grab your bible and check kiddo's!)

In addition Christianity could technically be a completely false religion even if there is a God. I'm not saying it is, but even if there is a God that does not make (fundamentalist protestant) Christianity the one and only true religion. It could be that God simply created reality and then didn't do anything more about it.

In fact if there is an omnipotent God who wanted the universe to be as it is, he/she would be quite capable of simple doing so only by setting it in motion and simply letting things happen without further interference.

Science and religion are the same thing, they just arent the same. if you catch my drift

two ways of explaining why and how things happened, they just differ on the details..

Technically, Evolution and Creationism are two VERY different things. The Bible clearly states that God created Earth in 6 days, created Eve from Adam's rib, etc.

Now lets get into Evolution, modern science has yet to prove both ideas, however Evolution seems more probable, dont you think?

With Evolution, the universe was created by the the splitting of a HUGE piece of matter, this matter later collected, and formed galaxies/planets/species. Over time as species became more and more evolutionized and basically came into being from unicellular to multicellular organisms, life on Earth, after the threat of dinosours was extinct began to settle and over time, become naturally improved. Thus because of this, and from constant evidence from times of the Pangea, that The Eastern Hemisphere is where neandrothols evolutaly settled and evoled into the intelligent beings of Homo Sapiens or better known as, Humans.

Me, I believe in evolution, I don't give a damn what you believe in, as long as you can back it up with some half decent logic.

Science isn't fact.
Well, most of it is...

Nazi.
My grandparents were slave labourers during WW2.
You need to be careful who you use that term with.
Gosh, you're so full of Christ's love!

Evolution isn't a theory really... Its a well established scientific fact that isn't disputed within the scientific community at all.


I know...there isn't much dispute. But I doubt there was much dispute of Newton's theories at one time. Nor was there much dispute that the world was flat...

The beautiful thing about science is that 100 years of proof can be discredited with a single blow...And I don't mean the: "God created the world in 7 days" kind of a blow..

Then again: I agree that evolution has a LOT of support, and nowadays it's more a case of refining what is generally taken to be the 'fact of evolution'.

My grandparents were slave labourers during WW2.
You need to be careful who you use that term with.
Gosh, you're so full of Christ's love!

Well you act like a nazi so I have no choice but to assume. Oh well I was wrong. You're probably KKK. That sounds more accurate.

Well, most of it is...

Take it to be fact if you want. None of it IS fact, however...

Honestly, each side is never going to come to an agreement. You are just going to keep slinging fecal matter until your too old and frail to punch the sequence of keys that continue to form the dribble of words you assume will make the other side suddenly see the light.

Trust me, been there, done that. This goes for both sides.

Don't those of faith have better things to do then try to tear apart the arguments of scientists who continually invent new medicines to cure the sick? The same scientists who dedicate their entire lives to improving the human condition? Why do you fight so desperately against those who perform the miracles of God through science? Why do you continue to feed pointless arguments that can only esculate into hatred and anger?

You of logic and reasoning, intelligence and education, why do you continue to stir things up with people who are perfectly happy exploring spirituality instead of fact and theory? Shouldn't you be concentrating on expanding your mental horizons? Try a new field of science if your that bored, or if your looking for a good debate, try some of the more scientific internet communities. You can contribute to great debates that have actually influenced science and in doing so, the future of humanity. Don't get stuck here, debating pointlessly, put your mind to good use!

I admit, I get pissed off when I hear about some creationalist trying to get Intelligent Design as a science, keep that stuff for history or literature. Anything not developed using the scientific method IS NOT science. End of debate.

Some people are perfectly happy spending their days in church, worshipping and doing great works of god.

Others are intent in expanding the capabilities of the human race, as god intended. Men and women of science, will we not, one day, view the great wonders of the stars? Or look into the eyes of a sentient intelligent being?

Some would think it ironic that those who so hate science will never see all the wonders of this universe that God created for that very reason.

BTW, I'm a agnostic humanist, although I'm starting to think my life would be very fulfilling if I spent it telling both sides of this debate to SHUT THE HELL UP.

Sincerely, Jinkguns
Supreme Commander
Socialist States of Nikoko

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6822028/

in response from representative of the people in support of creationism as the only truth and science as the devil



because we all know, the first step to teaching good science and getting past the religion v science conflict is a sticker instilling doubts in science in the students

Ironically, I think I've just been converted to Xtianity. I must have because Hell has just frozen over. Chess and I agree on something.

Actually no...when the old testament was written, greek was not a language....

The NT was written in greek....
What were they written in then, Hebrew? Not meant to sound sarcastic or snide, I thought that it was Greek and if it wasn't I'd like to know which language it was.

Well you act like a nazi so I have no choice but to assume. Oh well I was wrong. You're probably KKK. That sounds more accurate.

Whatever. I'm going to disregard to ignorance of that post.
You're just pissed off because you know you can't back up your beliefs, and people are proving you wrong.
So I'm going to do the Christ-like thing here and forgive you.

Nazi.
Godwin's Law. You lose the debate.

The truthe is that the concept of evolution being unteachable becahuse it is a theory is just a sign of ignorance.

I point your attention to the Kinetic Molecular Theory, a well-known physics theory taught to virtually physics and chemistry student in high school. The KMT states that gas is made up of molecules in constant random motion, that speed up when heated, causing changes in pressure and volume. Made as a logical and totally respected answer to Boyle's, Gay-Lussac's Charles's Laws. It is taught as fact. Why? Because there is absolutely no reason to believe otherwise.

The reason in SCIENCE that things are classified as theories is that they cannot be proven. I don't mean beyond a reasonable doubt, I mean as a unfalable law. No one can see gas molecules in motion, so even though we know the KMT is true, it can't be proven.

As a practicing Reform Jew, I feel I am allowed to say that the bible, in all forms, is less proven than many scientific theories, meaning anything of any merit. In fact, many Reform and Reconstructionist Jews accept Genesis as a fanciful story writen by men to prove certain points.

There is no reason why evolution should not be taught as fact. Too much of it is essentially proven to state otherwise. If we were arguing about the Meteor Impact Theory or the Fluid Mosaic Theory, then there may be reasonable counterarguements, but because some badly translated book says so is absurd and unnaceptable.

Honestly, each side is never going to come to an agreement. You are just going to keep slinging fecal matter until your too old and frail to punch the sequence of keys that continue to form the dribble of words you assume will make the other side suddenly see the light.

Trust me, been there, done that. This goes for both sides.

Don't those of faith have better things to do then try to tear apart the arguments of scientists who continually invent new medicines to cure the sick? The same scientists who dedicate their entire lives to improving the human condition? Why do you fight so desperately against those who perform the miracles of God through science? Why do you continue to feed pointless arguments that can only esculate into hatred and anger?

You of logic and reasoning, intelligence and education, why do you continue to stir things up with people who are perfectly happy exploring spirituality instead of fact and theory? Shouldn't you be concentrating on expanding your mental horizons? Try a new field of science if your that bored, or if your looking for a good debate, try some of the more scientific internet communities. You can contribute to great debates that have actually influenced science and in doing so, the future of humanity. Don't get stuck here, debating pointlessly, put your mind to good use!

I admit, I get pissed off when I hear about some creationalist trying to get Intelligent Design as a science, keep that stuff for history or literature. Anything not developed using the scientific method IS NOT science. End of debate.

Some people are spending their days in church, worshipping and doing great works of god.

Others are intent in expanding the capabilities of the human race, as god intended. Brothers and Sisters of Science, will we not, one day, view the great wonders of the stars? Or looking into the eyes of a sentient intelligent being?

Some would think it ironic that those who so hate science will never see all the wonders of this universe that God created for that very reason.

BTW, I'm a agnostic humanist, although I'm starting to think my life would be very fulfilling if I spent it telling both sides of this debate to SHUT THE HELL UP.

Sincerely, Jinkguns
Supreme Commander
Socialist States of Nikoko

Okay okay. Good points there. I resign myself ;).

Well you act like a nazi so I have no choice but to assume. Oh well I was wrong. You're probably KKK. That sounds more accurate.

Stop being such a flamer.

Honestly, unless you're an African American who's currently writing on his Palm Pilot while running away from hate crimers, you have no right to call people that.

Whatever. I'm going to disregard to ignorance of that post.
You're just pissed off because you know you can't back up your beliefs, and people are proving you wrong.
So I'm going to do the Christ-like thing here and forgive you.

You are saying I'm ignorant? Look at you infidel I haven't seen one positive post from you yet.

You are saying I'm ignorant? Look at you infidel I haven't seen one positive post from you yet.
infidels? why dont you join up with bin ladin... ooh ooh that wont work, form an equally hateful CHRISTIAN terrorist group like the ira, but based on fundamentalism and hate

You are saying I'm ignorant? Look at you infidel I haven't seen one positive post from you yet.

Not everyone believes in Christianity. And since this is a game based in the UK, with an international audience, it's a good idea to not go around calling people infidels, since:

1. You've been quite ignorant of basic 8th grade science.

and

2. You're calling people who disagree with you nazis.

infidels? why dont you join up with bin ladin... ooh ooh that wont work, form an equally hateful CHRISTIAN terrorist group like the ira, but based on fundamentalism and hate
the IRA are no christian group....

You are saying I'm ignorant? Look at you infidel I haven't seen one positive post from you yet.

So says the guy who calls someone a nazi for not sharing the same opinions...

the IRA are no christian group....

IRISH Republican Army.

No offense, but I highly doubt that Jewish and Muslim Irishmen would want to join a group who try to violently reclaim Northern Ireland.

But then, I doubt the existence of many Irish Jews/Muslims.

infidels? why dont you join up with bin ladin... ooh ooh that wont work, form an equally hateful CHRISTIAN terrorist group like the ira, but based on fundamentalism and hate

Infidel means unbeliever. Thats what Jenn Jenn Land is. I don't call just any atheist that, I only call ANGSTheists like Jenn Jenn Land that who attack our lord first.

On the IRA, yes they are evil but the English aren't any better. Cromwell killed hundreds of thousands of Irish. And ever heard of bloody Sunday?

Not everyone believes in Christianity. And since this is a game based in the UK, with an international audience, it's a good idea to not go around calling people infidels, since:

1. You've been quite ignorant of basic 8th grade science.

and

2. You're calling people who disagree with you nazis.

Grrr...Pulling the Nazi card works every time!

IRISH Republican Army.

No offense, but I highly doubt that Jewish and Muslim Irishmen would want to join a group who try to violently reclaim Northern Ireland.

But then, I doubt the existence of many Irish Jews/Muslims.
their sole aim is creating a united Ireland, they consider themselves Irish because thats what they think NI is...nothing to do with Christians

the IRA are no christian group....
not specifically, but they are inherently christian

Infidel means unbeliever. Thats what Jenn Jenn Land is. I don't call just any atheist that, I only call ANGSTheists like Jenn Jenn Land that who attack our lord first.

On the IRA, yes they are evil but the English aren't any better. Cromwell killed hundreds of thousands of Irish. And ever heard of bloody Sunday?

Cromwell was a Puritan Christian.

And when you say "our lord", say it as "my lord", since it's not mine.

And Jenn's jewish, at least, I think she is.

Hint=slave laborers in WW2 Nazi Germany

Infidel means unbeliever. Thats what Jenn Jenn Land is. I don't call just any atheist that, I only call ANGSTheists like Jenn Jenn Land that who attack our lord first.

On the IRA, yes they are evil but the English aren't any better. Cromwell killed hundreds of thousands of Irish. And ever heard of bloody Sunday?
dfetch the point boy, fetch the point!

not specifically, but they are inherently christian
their members may claim to be christian, but christians arent meant to go round bombing and shooting innocent people

Grrr...Pulling the Nazi card works every time!


Just like the terrorist card. :)

Could you idiots stop with the one liners? Your hijacking the thread. Paragraphs are for those who actually want to look intelligent.

Just like the terrorist card. :)

My personal favourite ;).

their members may claim to be christian, but christians arent meant to go round bombing and shooting innocent people
they arnt meant to go around shoving their religion down peoples throats either, but they have been doing that for centuries

Infidel means unbeliever. Thats what Jenn Jenn Land is. I don't call just any atheist that, I only call ANGSTheists like Jenn Jenn Land that who attack our lord first.

On the IRA, yes they are evil but the English aren't any better. Cromwell killed hundreds of thousands of Irish. And ever heard of bloody Sunday?
funnily enough i have heard of bloody sunday, costing me money to have an inquiry into it as well.

Cromwell killed thousands yea, i never said he didnt

as for bloody sunday itself, maybe if the army hadnt been shot at they wouldnt have fired on the crowd. im not saying its right, but im sure they had their reasons

Infidel means unbeliever. Thats what Jenn Jenn Land is. I don't call just any atheist that, I only call ANGSTheists like Jenn Jenn Land that who attack our lord first.

On the IRA, yes they are evil but the English aren't any better. Cromwell killed hundreds of thousands of Irish. And ever heard of bloody Sunday?

First of all, I remember the first post you ever wrote directed towards me, telling me to stop making "stupid" comments, like "silly christians", yet look at everything you've just said. All "stupid" comments. And you wonder why Christians are thought of as hypocrites.

Secondly, I'm not attacking your "Lord", or so you call Him, even though your Bible does say that if you love Him, you love your neighbor, but, you know, whatever, I guess hypocrisy is just in your nature. I attack religion. I attack fanatics, like yourself. Otherwise situations occur like the recent Presidential election. And stupid people run my country.

Not to mention all other bad stuff religion causes. But I've written those things plenty of times, and you've probably seen them all.

Lastly, I don't have anything more that I need to say to you. Plenty of people have said what needs to be said.

Just open your fucking eyes.

they arnt meant to go around shoving their religion down peoples throats either, but they have been doing that for centuries
what? youve lost me

Oh yeah science is just full of logic!

Scientist- Well one day the universe just appeared and before that there was nothing but anyway it just appeared and then earth got here and chemicals suddenly turned into life which changed over time bringing us here!

Yeah, science is brilliant :rolleyes: .

And the ignorance of people is still staggering.

Cromwell was a Puritan Christian.

And when you say "our lord", say it as "my lord", since it's not mine.

And Jenn's jewish, at least, I think she is.

Hint=slave laborers in WW2 Nazi Germany

I know Cromwell was a puritan. And he was evil. You can be "christian" and be evil. But a true Christian is never evil. And he is our lord wether you like it or not.

Could you idiots stop with the one liners? Your hijacking the thread. Paragraphs are for those who actually want to look intelligent.

If only you'd managed to fit all of that onto one line. It would've looked so beautifully hypocritical!

For whoever cared, the Torah, the first five books of the bible, including Genesis, were writen in anchient Hebrew. Feel free to buy one of the perfectly good translations of it. Many include multiple translations of questionable words or don't translate them.

While still subject to errors in rewriting over time, if you get it in hebrew, you will get a MUCH purer text than any Christain English version.

Infidel means unbeliever. Thats what Jenn Jenn Land is. I don't call just any atheist that, I only call ANGSTheists like Jenn Jenn Land that who attack our lord first.

Angstheists? What the fuck is that? Are you making up words now?

Cromwell was a Puritan Christian.

And when you say "our lord", say it as "my lord", since it's not mine.

And Jenn's jewish, at least, I think she is.

Hint=slave laborers in WW2 Nazi Germany

Actually my grandparents were Ukrainian immigrants living in Poland. People just don't hear a lot about other groups that suffered under Hitler. Sigh.

But thanks for defending me.

I know Cromwell was a puritan. And he was evil. You can be "christian" and be evil. But a true Christian is never evil. And he is our lord wether you like it or not.

I don't like it. May I have a new one please?!

I know Cromwell was a puritan. And he was evil. You can be "christian" and be evil. But a true Christian is never evil. And he is our lord wether you like it or not.
Heh. You just said that Cromwell is your Lord. I smell idolatry.

So is this thread gonna stay on the topic of the stickers, or devolve (bad choice of word?) into a flame war?

I know Cromwell was a puritan. And he was evil. You can be "christian" and be evil. But a true Christian is never evil. And he is our lord wether you like it or not.

Would you be a true Christian then? Running around calling people Nazi's and KKK?

And I don't like it, especially since there's something called the eastern part of the world, aka Asia, which evolved through religions valuing the self rather than an omnipotent being.

Heh. You just said that Cromwell is your Lord. I smell idolatry.

I called Cromwell evil and I called Jesus OUR lord.

I'm sorry, I must agree- Evolution is only a theory. In fact, gravity is simply a theorty. So is photosenthesis (sp); so is the Earth rotating around the Sun. This all theory. For all we know, the Earth could just be sitting still while the ENTIRE UNIVERSE rotates around it.

But, I'm religious AND scientific (it is possible, if you put your personal biases aside....)

Oh well, we're all going to hell, no matter what we believe. At least that's what I've been told.

I find the stickers to be an unjust attempt by fundamentalist Christians trying to get their religion taught in public schools. Religion does not belong in science class. I'm all for teaching creationism, just not as science. Teach it in Social studies or history or some such. Leave evolution, which is science, in science class.

Also, because I feel I need to say this. Science is a general collection of theories, which are explanatory models not guesses, based on empircal facts. For example, it is a fact that gravity exists, and General Relativity is the theory which best describes it at the moment. Also biological evoultion occuring is a fact, the theory of evolution is the explanation of how the fact of evolution occurs.

Onto the topic.

True. These stickers, however, aren't in themselves the most important thing. However, they represent a larger struggle between those who want a seperation of church and state and their enemies, the antidisenstablishmentarianists.

I don't mind creationism, but don't put a sticker saying, "this might not be true" for scientific theories because YOU believe creationism. Create your own class if you want to.

This thread is much easier to keep up with when you ignore all of Commando2's comments and those of people responding to him. I suggest that others pick up on this phenomenon.

This thread is much easier to keep up with when you ignore all of Commando2's comments and those of people responding to him. I suggest that others pick up on this phenomenon.

Very well.
Let's ignore cannon him.
*Boom!

Anyway, responses to the last few real thoughts on the topic?

Remember, is the bible direct, or symbolic of facts... 7 days may as well be 7 million years....

You don't know... I don't know... that's what faith is for.... Faith = Science. Both are studies of, and explanations for, things we don't know, by different means. The Pot is calling the kettle black, and I'm tired of radicals on BOTH SIDES of the issue who can't accept the FACT that neither one is based on unchallengable fact. The sticker should be on the book, and on every printed bible. "This book provides religious explanation and has not been proven to be true. Please read critically...."

The wonders of ignorance. I'm sick of you guys. L8er.

Who's calling who a radical?

It's obvious YOU'RE ONE FOR THOSE WHO ARE NEUTRAL(/sarcasm)

But you make a valid point. However, I disagree with it. That does NOT mean, however, that I am entitled to edit your post with a line at the end saying "Some parts of this post are only the writer's thoughts. They may be incorrect and must be examined critically."

And I don't like it, especially since there's something called the eastern part of the world, aka Asia, which evolved through religions valuing the self rather than an omnipotent being.
no, they didn't
hinduism=gods
buddhism=buddha, and nirvana "one with the force" shit
daoism=yin yang, again with the "force" stuff
there's also plenty of folk religions in east asia w/ gods and at various points of china's history it was more or less monotheistic
maybe except confucianism, which i guess would be the closest to valuing the self, which still says "you're crap, and they only damn reason you're here is to serve your parents and your country", also, confucianism is more of a philosophy than a religion
so, you got served

I called Cromwell evil and I called Jesus OUR lord.
That was your intention, but you never said "Jesus", only he, which, by the rules of grammar, would have to refer to Cromwell. And Jesus isn't my lord. I'm an atheist. I'm my own master.

no, they didn't
hinduism=gods
buddhism=buddha, and nirvana "one with the force" shit
daoism=yin yang, again with the "force" stuff
there's also plenty of folk religions in east asia w/ gods and at various points of china's history it was more or less monotheistic
maybe except confucianism, which i guess would be the closest to valuing the self, which still says "you're crap, and they only damn reason you're here is to serve your parents and your country", also, confucianism is more of a philosophy than a religion
so, you got served
I AM CHINAMAN AND I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE

Onto the topic.

True. These stickers, however, aren't in themselves the most important thing. However, they represent a larger struggle between those who want a seperation of church and state and their enemies, the antidisenstablishmentarianists.

I don't mind creationism, but don't put a sticker saying, "this might not be true" for scientific theories because YOU believe creationism. Create your own class if you want to.

Antidisenstablishmentarianists. Wow. I have to lie down after trying to read that.

Roflmao!

... science says that the world came from some superexpansion of some super dense matter, which is completely IRRELEVANT as it has nothing to do with evolution
Um ... not quite accurate. Check out M-theory ( http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/qg_ss.html ). Additionally, many scientists now hold that life is immanent in the makeup of the Universe and will arise whenever conditions for its development are favorable.

I AM CHINAMAN AND I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE

I am Chinaman born in China and I do not.

Daoism and Buddishm, in this case, would be non-godly, since you do not require the approval of a god to reach "nirvana".

And you're drastically simplifying things and forgetting the whole "Karma" part of Hinduism.

Evolution Is Only A Theory. Stop Acting Like Its A Proven Fact.

Which Evolution are you talking about?

Are you referring to the fact that organisms change over time to meet their needs? Yes, this is fact--we watch it happen everyday in our lives. Organisms change over time. This part of evolution is FACT.

Or are you referring to the evolution that we descended from primates? While I believe this to be true, I can't say for certain that it's a 100% fact yet.

Anyway back on topic. I think (that in the USA at least) that the reason that creationists misunderstand and tend to loathe the theory of evolution (I am an evolutionary biology student and i concede that evolution is a theory, a theory that explains all the known facts is still a theory) is because of the fundamental difference that the different factions view themselves. Creationists seem to believe that mankind is the pinicale of life on earth. This also allows them to use the fossil record as "proof" because it shows man rising up the tree of life. Evolutionists, pure evolutionists, know this to be wrong. Mankind is not any better or worse than any other species of creature on this planet. All of them have developed stragieges for dealing with their enviroment. Humans appear to be very successfull as they change the enviroment to suit their needs, other animals do this as well but none in recorded knowledge have done as well as humans. The root of the conflict is that creationists see humans as the image of God and not just as another animal competing for survival in the enviroment.

The point is that while those who denounce evolution because of a few unsolved mysteries are wrong and ignorant, there is nothing wrong with a little spirituallity, or a little kindness. If we want Creationists to look upon us favourably, we must look to act in a way suggesting the "Christain" way. The stickers are wrong, but so are those who just flame and insult. We have the upperhand on logical arguements. Let's use it!

The sticker should be on the book, and on every printed bible. "This book provides religious explanation and has not been proven to be true. Please read critically...."


The problem isn't so much the content of the sticker, as is the fact that it's singling out evolution. Every theory deserves such a sticker - it's not completely proven, it will probably be changed, think critically!

General relativity and quantum mechanics, for example, definitely demand this. We KNOW that they cannot be completely correct as is - although they both have loads and loads of evidence, on a fundamental level they're incompatible with each other, so one or both must be wrong.

Really, same goes for every theory - there is and always will be some doubt.

The problem is when creationists single out one theory that they don't like - evolution - and demand that sticker. Basically, they know that the sticker is going to be taken to mean that evolution is "less" of a known thing than those other theories. Which is a wrong impression, it has as much proof/evidence going for it as the kinetic theory of gases or Big Bang theory or anything.

Evolution Is Only A Theory. Stop Acting Like Its A Proven Fact.
I hate to break it to you, but "theory" is scientese for fact. It is used because nothing can ever be completely proven outside a direct demonstration. Theory means that all the facts fit, observable data supports it, as does a plethora of secondhand evidence. Religious texts not withstanding.
I know Cromwell was a puritan. And he was evil. You can be "christian" and be evil. But a true Christian is never evil. And he is our lord wether you like it or not.
So you subscribe the notion that anyone that reflects badly on you really has no standing to do so? "I don't like him, therefore anything I do like can only be associated with him by fallacy."

because we all know, the first step to teaching good science and getting past the religion v science conflict is a sticker instilling doubts in science in the students

I just heard the report about this on All Things Considered on on my way to my night class tonight. I think you're really, really overreacting. From what I could glean, I think Reasonabilityness's post just above mine got it mostly on the nose.

The problem isn't so much the content of the sticker, as is the fact that it's singling out evolution. Every theory deserves such a sticker - it's not completely proven, it will probably be changed, think critically!

Also of note, it was pointed out that the students in this district receive the highest marks in the state (or something to that effect). It isn't like these are one big Forest Gump we're talking about. And the stickers were only put on there after over 2,000 parents protested the material in the first place. I think it's important that there are that many parents who are apparently upset at what they view as the exaltation of evolution into fact rather than theory. There are several other like suits in several other states which aer taking like approaches to texts or cirriculae they feel place too definite an emphasis on evolution. Also, this suburban Atlanta school system may not appeal because it may not have the fiscal ability to.

I just think it's all part of a greater ongoing struggle of how to best present scientific data to students allowing them to form their own conclusions, without giving them conclusions and expecting them to fill in the data. In other words, trying no to do what politicians do.

Sigh. People STILL don't get it. Let's see if bold helps.

In science, theories are better than facts. Theories predict or explain behaviour. Facts don't do anything except sit there and represent one small piece of data. Saying the evolution is 'just a theory' makes it very, VERY clear that some people aren't getting enough out of their science lessons. Oh the irony.

Religion belongs in classes about belief systems (you know, like those RELIGIOUS LESSONS classes I keep hearing about). Until Creationism meets the scientific standard, it does not belong in science classes. Because it's not science.

Science is all about being able to say 'learn this rule and you can predict that behaviour'. Evolution DOES that. Creationism does NOT. Evolution says 'if you understand this theory about genetics, you can predict what percentage of offspring will have a sex-linked disease'. Creationism doesn't make any predictions about anything.

If you don't want your kids learning evolution, you can bloody well home tutor them. That's what you'd have to do if you didn't want them learning calculus, or basic English grammar, and evolution is no different. It's basic, it's important, and it's part of the school curriculum.

Honestly the stickers really shouldn't matter. It's a book that adopts an atheist style view with evidence. If you believe God created man, then host your own classes if you're so adamant about the stickers.

I'm a Christian and feel that if anyone of religion is mad at the stickers being removed, then maybe they should think about adding a "(So and so religion) is only a belief, not a proven fact" on any materials involving creationism or any religion.

Personally I believe in evolution but that the evolution of humanity was guided by God. After all, how come we're the only ones who've developed all of these behaviors and beliefs when so many other creatures were around during those times?

Another one of those Creationism vs. evolution fights. bla bla bla....

Why do people keep on doing this? Why can't people just accept the fact that even if the truth is that aliens dropped us off from some God knows milky way.. It's not going to effect our everyday lives?

Another one of those Creationism vs. evolution fights. bla bla bla....

Why do people keep on doing this? Why can't people just accept the fact that even if the truth is that aliens dropped us off from some God knows milky way.. It's not going to effect our everyday lives?

yeah! and when is it ever going to matter to my everyday life whether the universe is geocentric or not? or that matter is made up of atoms? or whether or not the theory of plate tectonics is true?

your everyday life is not the appropriate standard for judging science. especially when your everyday life could be dramatically affected by these things in ways you don't know about because you didn't even bother to attempt to find out the truth.

yeah! and when is it ever going to matter to my everyday life whether the universe is geocentric or not? or that matter is made up of atoms? or whether or not the theory of plate tectonics is true?

your everyday life is not the appropriate standard for judging science. especially when your everyday life could be dramatically affected by these things in ways you don't know about because you didn't even bother to attempt to find out the truth.

There's somethings in life, that even if you do know, wouldn't really make much a difference. Plus to me, I know what creationism is, and what evolutionism is. But does it really matter that my ancestors used to be monkeys?

Plus, reading the initial pages, seeing them argue and banter on about a bloody sticker saying that 'It cannot be proven'. And everybodies upset. It's like seeing a car-sticker on someone elses car "Jesus doesn't exist". Does my faith suddenly gets shaken by the thought of it? Do I go up to the fellow and argue with him? What does that prove?

There's so much we can argue on and on about, which is good sometimes to keep an open mind and hear both ends.. Which I do, but to hear them going on and on about the same things... pointless.

By knowing I came from monkeys, How does that help pay my school bills?

Does the Bible have a similar sticker pointing out that it might not be true?

Why does the teaching of creationism only still occur in the US?

Are they somehow particularly backward there?

Inbred hick hillbillies, by their very existence, point to evolutionary mechanisms taking time to work.

In more advanced societies they are already extinct.

By knowing I came from monkeys, How does that help pay my school bills?

unless you get yourself some sort of science scholarship or become a biologist, it probably won't. but somebody has to understand it, otherwise modern medicine would just mysteriously stop working after a couple decades, etc. knowledge gained through studying evolution impacts our lives in all sorts of ways, whether we realize it or not.

and if a goal of modern society is to transmit to the next generation a well-balanced and rounded pile of human knowledge before forcing them to specialize, i'd put evolution fairly high on the list. if you are to know any science at all, you should know basic physics, basic chemistry, and evolution.

besides, understanding the world around us is good in and of itself.

Why does the teaching of creationism only still occur in the US?

we take great pride in our ignorance and making sure that our children never know more than we do.

There's somethings in life, that even if you do know, wouldn't really make much a difference. Plus to me, I know what creationism is, and what evolutionism is. But does it really matter that my ancestors used to be monkeys?

The theory of evolution does not state that your ancestors were monkeys.
Please go back to your basic biology texts, and read them again.
Your line of reasoning and logic certainly appear simian, however.

Plus, reading the initial pages, seeing them argue and banter on about a bloody sticker saying that 'It cannot be proven'. And everybodies upset. It's like seeing a car-sticker on someone elses car "Jesus doesn't exist". Does my faith suddenly gets shaken by the thought of it? Do I go up to the fellow and argue with him? What does that prove?

Seemingly, your faith does not get shaken by any thought.
Don't give up, persist with the thought. If exercised, it can overcome superstition.

There's so much we can argue on and on about, which is good sometimes to keep an open mind and hear both ends.. Which I do, but to hear them going on and on about the same things... pointless.

Your posting a reply on this topic does seem to indicate, to the casual observer, that you do not really regard the discussion as "pointless". Threatening perhaps.

By knowing I came from monkeys, How does that help pay my school bills?

Again, you did not come from monkeys. And, given your misunderstandings of biology and your flawed reasoning, one can only wonder on the value of anybody paying for your school bills.

The stickers were added after more than 2,000 parents complained that the textbooks presented evolution as fact, without mentioning rival ideas about the beginnings of life, such as the biblical story of creation.

I say science books start mentioning creationist theories as an alternative when the bible starts mentioning evolution as an alternative. Also, it's called the Theory of Evolution, theory is right in the name. No one calls it the Facts of Evolution. :headbang:

Another one of those Creationism vs. evolution fights. bla bla bla....

Why do people keep on doing this? Why can't people just accept the fact that even if the truth is that aliens dropped us off from some God knows milky way.. It's not going to effect our everyday lives?

The advances in medicine are based on the science that you discard so readily.

It may not effect your everyday life.

But, on just one particular day it could prove vital to your life.

Kindly learn some biology and, particularly, genetics, if you wish to make comments on the subject.

or whether or not the theory of plate tectonics is true?This one's kinda important.

i still dont understand: if we are all equal under god
Why do so many christians lack decent mental capacities?
(not all but clearly this applies to Commando2!)

i still dont understand: if we are all equal under god
Why do so many christians lack decent mental capacities?
(not all but clearly this applies to Commando2!)

Evidently, God gave us free will so that we could mock those like the accused into using their senses and little rationale.

Evolution is only a theory... But more and more evidence is being collected to back it up...

and evolution will always be a theory. quantummechanics is a theory, but still we accept it to be a fact, newtonian mechanics is also a theory, although the 'laws" of newton are proven to be 'incorrect'. The fact is that anything science produces is a theory. saying that something is 'just a theory' clearly shows that you have no idea about what science is.

The fact is that anything science produces is a theory.

no thats a theory not a fact

This one's kinda important.

slightly less than evolution actually

God made matter. God perfectly organised the world. God produced the universe. God made the cell in his own image and it used the matter to reproduce. God made monkey and humans.
He did! He did! Mummy, I saw it! :(

He did! He did! Mummy, I saw it! :(

I saw mummy kissing mrs claus :(

Here's a quiz for all of you who believe creationism as the only way possible.


Answer it truthfully, or else you're disobeying your own "Thou shalt not lie" command, and a man who betrays himself is worth less then a fool.



I've infected you with a disease and you have only two cures, which I hand you.

One cure is a pill from 1930 and the other is a new age medical pill, the 1930 pill is guarranteed to kill any disease that was around back then, and the new age pill does that for today. Which will you take?

If you took the 1930's pill, congradulations, you're dead, I truly hope your morals were worth enough to die over.

If you took the new age one, you've betrayed your morals, but your alive.

If you're wondering why, the disease adapted and broke an infant cell of of it's self to form a new disease in 1980 or such, the 1930 medication is useless against this new form of disease. And yes, diseases DO do this, ask a doctor if you don't believe me. Now, that means the disease evolved and adapted over time and became immune to the old medication. Yes, there you go, the disease evolved.

I wouldn't take anything described as "New Age" though, because that makes it sound like homeopathic hippie BS.

As far as I'm concerned, the theory of Creation still doesn't snag me. Where did "God" come from, who made him?

See, I find it hard to believe that God just "appeared" ... I'm more willing to think that the Big Bang created most everything, instead of.. some "God" popping up from nothing and being the one to put the blocks together.


god was created from a single unified thought within a vast pool of emotions.this pool is literally infinite,and a untold number of such beings may have formed.but being omnipotent these beings cannot percieve of or interact with eachother without createing a paradox.

Question for those who believe evolution is only a theory:

Do you still believe that the Earth is flat, or that a giant scarab beetle rolls the sun across the sky every day? Should school children not be taught geography or astonomy at school?

I think those things are quite diffrent. We have certian proof of those things. Proof for evolution is far from certian. We still hav'nt found the liking factor between ape and man. Everything we have so far seems to be either fake or mistake.

Here's a quiz for all of you who believe creationism as the only way possible.


Answer it truthfully, or else you're disobeying your own "Thou shalt not lie" command, and a man who betrays himself is worth less then a fool.



I've infected you with a disease and you have only two cures, which I hand you.

One cure is a pill from 1930 and the other is a new age medical pill, the 1930 pill is guarranteed to kill any disease that was around back then, and the new age pill does that for today. Which will you take?

If you took the 1930's pill, congradulations, you're dead, I truly hope your morals were worth enough to die over.

If you took the new age one, you've betrayed your morals, but your alive.

If you're wondering why, the disease adapted and broke an infant cell of of it's self to form a new disease in 1980 or such, the 1930 medication is useless against this new form of disease. And yes, diseases DO do this, ask a doctor if you don't believe me. Now, that means the disease evolved and adapted over time and became immune to the old medication. Yes, there you go, the disease evolved.

I can accept the idea of evolution being the way life changes over time. The problem I have is with Abiogenesis, cells just appering out of nothing. There has never been a scientific experiment where that has ever happened so there is very little point in pushing evolution forward as the way life began.

A theory is based on an experiment that has been proven by dozens of scientists. besides WHO REALLY CARES? no one really, they just say they do to pleases their faction. People suck

saying that something is 'just a theory' clearly shows that you have no idea about what science is.

I think people accept a paradime as true once you can create an experiment to prove it. And while you can do that for micro evolution, you cant for Abiogensis.

Oh yeah science is just full of logic!

Scientist- Well one day the universe just appeared and before that there was nothing but anyway it just appeared and then earth got here and chemicals suddenly turned into life which changed over time bringing us here!

Yeah, science is brilliant :rolleyes: .You really have no idea how ignorant you sound, do you? I implore not to be dismissive of science before you even understand what it is. It's not as if you must renounce your faith in God before you try learn about the universe. Some of the greatest scientific minds of all time are/were not atheists, including Einstein.

Actually the Old Testament was originally written in Greek, so there's that translation too.

Besides How thrilled would Christians be if someone put a sticker at the beginning of Genesis: "Creationism is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. The material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered."

It's not even a theory. Theories require hard evidence, creationism is just an idea that people force others to believe. Because, they're always right.

Hell it can't even be considered a hypothosis.

I think people accept a paradime as true once you can create an experiment to prove it. And while you can do that for micro evolution, you cant for Abiogensis.

Your basic idea is wrong. No scientist will tell you some process created cells directly from inorganic matters. Only proponent of Creationism say that's what abiogensis is, to make it too inplausible to consider.

But consider these facts:

1. simple cells are formed by various forms of proteins.
2. Proteins are formed by ammino acids.
3. Sicentists were able to create ammino acids using inorganic chemicals, water and electricity.

Still sounds implausible that life can originate from inorganic matters?

I love it how every time there's some new discovery that causes scientists to revise their theories (such as the recent find of human remains that could push estimates of human arrival in North America back significantly, or such as the Chinese dog-crittur), there's always some yokel who pops up to say "Evolution suxxors! 3at it, science!"

But when you think about it, the constant revision of theories to fit facts shows a healty engagement with a little thing called reality, whereas subscription to creationism as truth puts the cart before the horse (it is a hypothesis not derived from evidence, but a hypothesis in search of evidence).

Science and religion are exclusive when faith blocks reason or subscription to the scientific method.

(I'd like to preemptively apologize to all the rational folks in Cobb County. I know there a few of you--you've got at least one judge--and I think you ought to be more vocal.)

As a side note, does anybody else not really give a flying fuck about what kind of medieval stickers people in Cobb County want to put on their books? If these dumbshits want to impose their willful ignorance on their kids, let 'em. It just means there'll be more jobs available for my kids in the biotech and other science-oriented fields. They want to raise luddites? Fine. I hear butter-churning is a real growth industry.

I think those things are quite diffrent. We have certian proof of those things. Proof for evolution is far from certian. We still hav'nt found the liking factor between ape and man. Everything we have so far seems to be either fake or mistake.

There IS no "one linking factor." There's a nice long chain, of which we've found bits and pieces, which is what we'd expect. Enough bits and pieces to be able to say that yes, we're fairly certain that there is a chain.

Proof (AKA evidence) for evolution is fairly certain. And though there have been some fakes or mistakes, they've been debunked and thrown out fairly quickly, and the bulk of the evidence is valid.

I can accept the idea of evolution being the way life changes over time. The problem I have is with Abiogenesis, cells just appering out of nothing. There has never been a scientific experiment where that has ever happened so there is very little point in pushing evolution forward as the way life began.

Evolution is not "The way life began" and nobody should be claiming it is. Evolution is the way diversity began.

The claim is that all organisms currently alive descended from a common ancestor via mechanisms of gradual change. That's the theory of evolution in a nutshell. That's what we find evidence for, the phylogenetic tree, fossil evidence, and so on.

How this first ancestor appeared, though it is interesting to know, is not part of the theory of evolution. It could have originated through chemical processes, or God could have done it, or it could have been seeded by aliens, or whatever. We don't really know, though we have some reason to believe the first could be possible. The theory of evolution is compatible with all of the possible origins of the first cell.

I think people accept a paradime as true once you can create an experiment to prove it. And while you can do that for micro evolution, you cant for Abiogensis.
Cant YET

I think people accept a paradime . . .

Accept a what now?

I can accept the idea of evolution being the way life changes over time. The problem I have is with Abiogenesis, cells just appering out of nothing. There has never been a scientific experiment where that has ever happened so there is very little point in pushing evolution forward as the way life began.

Guess what! No one has ever claimed that evolution is the way life began. Congratulations!

(You have been told this at least ten times, just as you have been told that no one can force any church in the US to perform any ceremony. Why do you keep repeating nonsense in every thread? Is it just to get your post count up?)

Guess what! No one has ever claimed that evolution is the way life began. Congratulations!

(You have been told this at least ten times, just as you have been told that no one can force any church in the US to perform any ceremony. Why do you keep repeating nonsense in every thread? Is it just to get your post count up?)
I was going to say the same thing ... but couldent remember enough :)

These threads are a waste of time. Religious Fanaticism cannot be reasoned with.

Has it occurred to any of you that what you believe does not make a difference in this situation? Evidence, according to any rational scientist (or any other rational person) is a theory. It is not, and truly cannot be, proven, and whether you believe it to be true or not, should our children not have the chance to know that they are being taught a theory, not a proven fact? Anything less would be a lie. It's still being taught, it's not being dropped from the curriculum, it's simply being presented as what it is: a theory.

You make it sound like your beliefs were under assault, they're not. Schools simply have a responsibility to teach truth.

jW

These threads are a waste of time. Religious Fanaticism cannot be reasoned with.

Aye, though I would extend the definition to any fanaticism.

Kindly learn some biology and, particularly, genetics, if you wish to make comments on the subject.
...
Please go back to your basic biology texts, and read them again.
Your line of reasoning and logic certainly appear simian, however.
...
Again, you did not come from monkeys. And, given your misunderstandings of biology and your flawed reasoning, one can only wonder on the value of anybody paying for your school bills.
...
Your posting a reply on this topic does seem to indicate, to the casual observer, that you do not really regard the discussion as "pointless". Threatening perhaps.

Ugh, this almost a science lab Jerry Springer.

"How dare you cheat on me with another beaker!"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6822028/

in response from representative of the people in support of creationism as the only truth and science as the devil



because we all know, the first step to teaching good science and getting past the religion v science conflict is a sticker instilling doubts in science in the students

Yay! At least the judges in our state still have some semblance of sanity and intelligence.

Yay! At least the judges in our state still have some semblance of sanity and intelligence.

*Is always amazed at how many members of this forum are from GA, considering the general lack of political understanding and general knowledge in the state.*

Aye, though I would extend the definition to any fanaticism.
concur

Be nice folks. If you take away the dips belief in an omnipotent higher power, then they will have to become responsible for their own thoughts and actions and that would just be tooo scary.

All of you sweet little zealots are welcome to come on over to Diptopia...you'll fit in just swell with the rest of the drooling, shuffling hoardes.

matter is indestructable, matter and energy, laws of thermal dynamics.

Not to nitpick on such an old post, but I'm going to do exactly that. I'm pretty sure matter can be both created and destroyed. That's the principle that nuclear physics operates on. You know, E=Mc^2 and all that jazz.

Side note VVV

Did you know?
One kilogram of water is made up of about 90,000,000,000,000,000 joules of trapped energy. As a reference, in 2001, the entire WORLD used about 426,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 joules. We'd need to completely decompose about 4733 liters of water (currently impossible) to fulfill the entire world's energy needs. That's less than half the water used to fill a small above-ground pool.

Not to nitpick on such an old post, but I'm going to do exactly that. I'm pretty sure matter can be both created and destroyed. That's the principle that nuclear physics operates on. You know, E=Mc^2 and all that jazz.

Side note VVV

Did you know?
One kilogram of water is made up of about 90,000,000,000,000,000 joules of trapped energy. As a reference, in 2001, the entire WORLD used about 426,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 joules. We'd need to completely decompose about 4733 liters of water (currently impossible) to fulfill the entire world's energy needs. That's less than half the water used to fill a small above-ground pool.
i know there is a flaw there, my best bet is in the assumption we are able to convert the water PERFECTLY into pure usuable energy and that none of it is somehow "lost" along the way to where it is going

and no, matter cannot be created or destroyed, or energy, thermal dynamic laws

Yeah, the theory assumes 100% efficient antimatter reactors. But still, it would be astounding at 10% ;)

You're wrong about matter though. Thermodynamics do not mention matter other than referring to it as a form of energy.

"However, in the much more powerful nuclear reactions, these principles of separate conservation of mass and energy must be combined into the conservation of the total of mass and energy. Mass can be converted into energy and energy into mass according to Einstein's relationship E = mc^2, in which E is energy, m is mass, and c is the velocity of light."

http://www.chemsoc.org/exemplarchem/entries/RDelahaye/Conservation/page05.htm

Evolution isn't a fact: it's a theory. All of science is theoretical... The Bible on the other hand is 100% correct, through and through..!
That was a joke, right? Right? Please, please say it was a joke?

That was a joke, right? Right? Please, please say it was a joke?
It was, relax.

I love it how every time there's some new discovery that causes scientists to revise their theories (such as the recent find of human remains that could push estimates of human arrival in North America back significantly, or such as the Chinese dog-crittur), there's always some yokel who pops up to say "Evolution suxxors! 3at it, science!"

But when you think about it, the constant revision of theories to fit facts shows a healty engagement with a little thing called reality, whereas subscription to creationism as truth puts the cart before the horse (it is a hypothesis not derived from evidence, but a hypothesis in search of evidence).

Science and religion are exclusive when faith blocks reason or subscription to the scientific method.

(I'd like to preemptively apologize to all the rational folks in Cobb County. I know there a few of you--you've got at least one judge--and I think you ought to be more vocal.)

As a side note, does anybody else not really give a flying fuck about what kind of medieval stickers people in Cobb County want to put on their books? If these dumbshits want to impose their willful ignorance on their kids, let 'em. It just means there'll be more jobs available for my kids in the biotech and other science-oriented fields. They want to raise luddites? Fine. I hear butter-churning is a real growth industry.
Heh
Mighta just nudge outta "Sometimes Deadly" to "Deadly" on that one.