NationStates Jolt Archive

Getting fed up of all the political discussion about America, I decided to ask people a question that I dont think has come up here much of late. What do people think of the EU. Now I am not talking about what people think of the individual member states, but the political institution. Is it good for member states, does it have their best interest at heart, or is it simply Benelux countries trying to get more power than they diserve and France and Germany trying to bring the rest of Europe down with them. Do people here take the Parliament seriouly, or just see it as a talking shop and that the commision has all the real power. Particually, I'm interested in American's opinons, seeing as they have a reletively unbiased view of it seeing as it doesnt directly affect them (although Bush did see fit to make a speech about Turkey's entry into the EU, which I thought was a bit above his station and shouldnt have been done. Hes the American President, not the World President). One thing I would ask though, is no senseless Eurobashing. If your going to criticse, do it properly and give a reason. So, fire away...

the EU is a brilliant institution. it has helped keep peace after hundereds of years of war in Europe, it has helped to unite its people, it has seriously benefited the economies of all member states and is a genuine step towards a better society. it has its flaws, but nothing is perfect ;)

the EU is a brilliant institution. it has helped keep peace after hundereds of years of war in Europe

What wars were averted by it?

This will appear to be a crackpot post, but think about it before reacting OK.

I think the EU is so good that I believe Brazil, where I live, should apply for membership.

Yeah Brazil is not in Europe, but it does have a christian european culture, it speaks a european language. It has to offer things that Europe needs (raw materials) and europe has things it needs (Know how more than anything.)

To me it makes much more sense than considering Turkey as a member.

the EU is a brilliant institution. it has helped keep peace after hundereds of years of war in Europe, it has helped to unite its people, it has seriously benefited the economies of all member states and is a genuine step towards a better society. it has its flaws, but nothing is perfect ;)

*agrees* It's important to work together to make the institution better through criticizing it, though, and not just idly sit on one's ass doing nothing. Um. Yeah.

The current EU is a bureaucratic nightmare. About as transparent as pea soup. It has little actual power. Cause the council of ministers of the member states must give a majority consent to a recomadation the commission.

the EU is a brilliant institution. it has helped keep peace after hundereds of years of war in Europe, it has helped to unite its people, it has seriously benefited the economies of all member states and is a genuine step towards a better society. it has its flaws, but nothing is perfect ;)

Suprised to her a Welshman stick up for the EU - after they left you of that map 'n' all. :D

I agree I also like the EU, but I do think it's a bit too powerfull for what is an unelected parliment. On the other hand I'm all for a united Europe (Turkey included).

What wars were averted by it?

If they were averted then they were not wars now, were they?! :rolleyes:

This will appear to be a crackpot post, but think about it before reacting OK.

I think the EU is so good that I believe Brazil, where I live, should apply for membership.

Yeah Brazil is not in Europe, but it does have a christian european culture, it speaks a european language. It has to offer things that Europe needs (raw materials) and europe has things it needs (Know how more than anything.)

To me it makes much more sense than considering Turkey as a member.

"The European Union feat. Brazil"

What wars were averted by it?
the fact that there were no wars, especially while the world w became increasingly politically charged during the cold war, is testament to the fact that the EU has brought peace. i can't say that without it there would have been war, but neither can anyone else say this.
im watchin tv right now, will post more here soon (this is yet another topic close to my heart :D )

i think it has its pros and cons.
pros:
it helps keeps the peace (according to above post, i wouldn't know)
sets standards for countries to follow to avoid human rights abuses
makes europe's economy stronger

cons:
i think it seems like it is kind of taking away some of the individuality of the countries in europe, but again i don't live there, that's just how it seems
i think france is trying to make a power play to try and pretend it is still a world power on the level of Japan, China, US, UK
makes europe's economy stronger (hey dudes, what happened to US domination of the world economy? let's keep this european economy on the down low...)

from an american. anything said above may be totally wrong. feel free to comment.

To me it makes much more sense than considering Turkey as a member.
If Turkey is admitted there realy is no reason to deny Brazil membership.

Its good now, but I think it will lead to problems, someday, in the not too distant future, by that I mean in about 40 or 50 years, Europe will unite, like the US united, and there will be a Euro civil war, and you can bet in will be hundreds of times worse than the US civil war. For one, more people, two, better weapons better tech. Three countries who were independant for a long time. And four, other countries will help one side or the other.

i think it has its pros and cons.
pros:
it helps keeps the peace (according to above post, i wouldn't know)
sets standards for countries to follow to avoid human rights abuses
makes europe's economy stronger

cons:
i think it seems like it is kind of taking away some of the individuality of the countries in europe, but again i don't live there, that's just how it seems
i think france is trying to make a power play to try and pretend it is still a world power on the level of Japan, China, US, UK
makes europe's economy stronger (hey dudes, what happened to US domination of the world economy? let's keep this european economy on the down low...)

from an american. anything said above may be totally wrong. feel free to comment.

HA! Sadly I agree with the Europe econemy getting stronger as a con thing. Sadly, very very sadly, I think the days, of the US' huge economic power are over. Although we are still the biggest, its not by as big of a longshot anymore.

Its good now, but I think it will lead to problems, someday, in the not too distant future, by that I mean in about 40 or 50 years, Europe will unite, like the US united, and there will be a Euro civil war, and you can bet in will be hundreds of times worse than the US civil war. For one, more people, two, better weapons better tech. Three countries who were independant for a long time. And four, other countries will help one side or the other.

Perhaps it will be between countries which have nukes, and those which don't? Or perhaps, not...

If they were averted then they were not wars now, were they?! :rolleyes:

I think he means, what close calls came up which the EU can be seen to have stopped

I think he means, what close calls came up which the EU can be seen to have stopped

Ther have been many conflicts, fishing, beef, etc between member states which could have flared beyond trade without the EU dialogue.

Ther have been many conflicts, fishing, beef, etc between member states which could have flared beyond trade without the EU dialogue.

Although it has created a few hard feelings between nations, when they don't feel that they are being treated fairly.
I know many Britons that feel that they are being cast aside, and treated unfairly when compared with the rest of Europe. (More taxes, being forced to use metric systems of weight and distance, etc.)

I assume (100% opinion 0% fact) the EU is politically constructive but on occasion attempt to hinder the economies of North America and maybe even the richer areas of africa/asia et cetera and they are also afraid to take action against other countries because they don't want to get blamed.

I assume (100% opinion 0% fact) the EU is politically constructive but on occasion attempt to hinder the economies of North America and maybe even the richer areas of africa/asia et cetera.

The CAP (Common Agricultural Policy) would seem to disprove this. They are attempting to keep the poor, poor. A tactic I'm sure most Americans would recognise. ;)

Although it has created a few hard feelings between nations, when they don't feel that they are being treated fairly.
I know many Britons that feel that they are being cast aside, and treated unfairly when compared with the rest of Europe. (More taxes, being forced to use metric systems of weight and distance, etc.)

I was living in Britain in 1971, when we first decimilsed our currency, and later when we entered the EU. There were people who argued against the EU membership on the basis that we would be unfairly treated in comparison to "johnny foreigner". However there is no evidence that this has actually ocurred. More taxes, no, we actually have less taxes now. The metric system was in use at school when I was there, before the Crimean War, well almost. The EU has done the UK no harm whatsoever, and may possibly have done it some good in Inter European relations. Where it has definately benefitted the UK is as a trading block that has the same order of economic power as the USA.

I assume (100% opinion 0% fact) the EU is politically constructive but on occasion attempt to hinder the economies of North America and maybe even the richer areas of africa/asia et cetera and they are also afraid to take action against other countries because they don't want to get blamed.

Well it does sell a lot of the food surplusses made by the C.A.P. on African markets and then undercuts the local producers. But I'm not sure how the EU would attempt to hinder the North American economy. Where did this assumption come from?

On the one hand, the EU is a brilliantly successful experiment in international cooperation and social democracy. And it is not all liberal idealism either, the business side of things has not been forgotten, the EU's protectionist barriers and international trade negotiation tactics are brutal enough to make even an American shed a tear.

Plus we have an awesomely cool Parliament building:

http://www.europarl.eu.int/presentation/worldcup/pictures/zoom1.jpg

I would definitely consider myself an EU patriot, identifying myself more with this apparently soulless bureaucracy than with my own government, respecting it more, and considering myself a citizen of the EU as much as the UK. There is no contradiction there, I think, in many cases the EU inspires far more passion in people than their own governments these days, such is the state of domestic politics.

I would question however the assertion that Americans will have a less biased opinion of the EU than Europeans. This is rather like saying that Europeans are going to be less biased than Americans about the US. Obviously, the bias will be equal and opposite.

I would definitely consider myself an EU patriot, identifying myself more with this apparently soulless bureaucracy than with my own government, respecting it more, and considering myself a citizen of the EU as much as the UK. There is no contradiction there, I think, in many cases the EU inspires far more passion in people than their own governments these days, such is the state of domestic politics.

I totally agree. I think that the EU can only be a good thing. France need to lose the arrogant Chirac, and after that, we -should- be back on course for a fair EU. I'm hoping that the EU gets its own military soon... would be pretty cool. :)

I was living in Britain in 1971, when we first decimilsed our currency, and later when we entered the EU. There were people who argued against the EU membership on the basis that we would be unfairly treated in comparison to "johnny foreigner". However there is no evidence that this has actually ocurred. More taxes, no, we actually have less taxes now. The metric system was in use at school when I was there, before the Crimean War, well almost. The EU has done the UK no harm whatsoever, and may possibly have done it some good in Inter European relations. Where it has definately benefitted the UK is as a trading block that has the same order of economic power as the USA.

I'm sorry if you thought that these were my opinions, I definitely don't think that Britain is being hard done by. Kilroy-Silk can go somewhere else to try and stir up his anti-European, "Oh noes! The good old days are gone!" type feelings.

I would question however the assertion that Americans will have a less biased opinion of the EU than Europeans. This is rather like saying that Europeans are going to be less biased than Americans about the US. Obviously, the bias will be equal and opposite.

I would beg to differ here. In my opinion the Americans in general will have no opinion whatsoever about the EU. It is not part of their lives, it does not threaten their precious pseudo democracy, and it is not American.

This is not to say that there are not a significant number of US citizens who do have an opinion, just that the majority of Americans will not. Those that do have an opinion are likely to be those who have taken a genuine interest in international affairs, and as such it is difficult to affirm that they will have an equal but opposite bias to that of the europeans with respect to the USA.

I think the EU is a pretty good idea for Europe. I don't know if it will work, as the place is so highly fragmented on language and ethnic barriers, but it's a good try none the less.

Suprised to her a Welshman stick up for the EU - after they left you of that map 'n' all. :D

I agree I also like the EU, but I do think it's a bit too powerfull for what is an unelected parliment. On the other hand I'm all for a united Europe (Turkey included).
now that was funny. the welsh were infuriated! (i just go to uni there btw :) )

a federal united europe is the way forward imho. a democratically elected central federal government, with devolved local (currently national) governments, with powers similar to those in scotland and wales in the UK and/or the states in the USA. this will help strengthen europe while both increasing its actual power, and allowing convergence over the long term. culturally nations can remain distinct, as regions are in the UK and Europe at the minute, but total political convergence will help iron out many of the practical problems it faces today. that, and having a unified defence force.

oh and reading posts here, the CAP must be reformed - it takes approx 60% of the total EU budget! this cannot continue imo


edit:

I would definitely consider myself an EU patriot, identifying myself more with this apparently soulless bureaucracy than with my own government, respecting it more, and considering myself a citizen of the EU as much as the UK. There is no contradiction there, I think, in many cases the EU inspires far more passion in people than their own governments these days, such is the state of domestic politics.
i like what you say, TG :)

oh and reading posts here, the CAP must be reformed - it takes approx 60% of the total EU budget! this cannot continue imo

Just tell the farmers to get a life, and a proper job, and quit complaining because they're being told not to grow stuff.

100% behind the EU.

The euro is screwing with the german economy and the EU itself is both harmless and useless, unlike the UN which is useless and harmful. Ergo, the EU is better than the UN, for what it's worth.

The euro is screwing with the german economy and the EU itself is both harmless and useless, unlike the UN which is useless and harmful. Ergo, the EU is better than the UN, for what it's worth.
I think the German economy was already screwed. :rolleyes:

I might also add that EU nations typically have a higer per-capita number of good foodstuffs than in the US.