NationStates Jolt Archive

4 biilions World aid, yet the Acehanese, may die waiting for it...

The people of Aceh is in a decades long independence War angainst Jakarta...
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGASA210791999
http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=en&safe=off&q=Aceh+rape&btnG=Search&meta=

...When the Tsunami hit, the Acehanese repetedely offered a truce:
http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=aceh+ceasefire&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-news-t&fl=0&x=wrt

and Jakarta was pleased:
http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=Indonesia+welcomes+ceasefire&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-news-t&fl=0&x=wrt

...But now Jakarta is trying to slow down the Aid to Disater striken Aceh...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6754820/

Oh, so it's not because of the evil American military?

Indonesia was the US/UK's "anti-communist" puppet until the late 1990s, guys. We put them in power, asked them to oppress the people in Aceh, and gave them the weapons with which to do it over the course of a quarter century. The UK still trains its officers. Some of us know a little bit of history, now a bunch of kids are acting all indignant. Pfft. :rolleyes:

I'm surprised this hasn't been more of a problem in Sri Lanka, given the are also dealing with insurgents. I hope Indonesia makes sure those people get aid though, given they are the worst hit from this whole disaster.

Oh, so it's not because of the evil American military?
I hope it is not.

I hope it is not.

If you'll notice, Indonesia wants to screw the people who live in Aceh.

They don't want the US to overfly the area in anything except a cargo helicopter.

They are now insisting that all flights - even the non-US ones, even the civilian ones - have Indonesian military on board.

They want everyone to be unarmed - including the US, German, Chinese, and Australian military - but want an armed Indonesian military rep on board.

Civilian aid workers must have Indonesian military escort - armed - at all times.

Indonesia is screwing Aceh. They don't want the world to see it, and they don't want the Americans to see it.

I think that the US isn't involved - that the Indonesian government is making sure that the aid is slow in coming, that only people loyal to the government get aid, and that the world doesn't find out.

Oh, so it's not because of the evil American military?How noble of you.

If you'll notice, Indonesia wants to screw the people who live in Aceh.

They don't want the US to overfly the area in anything except a cargo helicopter.

They are now insisting that all flights - even the non-US ones, even the civilian ones - have Indonesian military on board.

They want everyone to be unarmed - including the US, German, Chinese, and Australian military - but want an armed Indonesian military rep on board.

Civilian aid workers must have Indonesian military escort - armed - at all times.

Indonesia is screwing Aceh. They don't want the world to see it, and they don't want the Americans to see it.

I think that the US isn't involved - that the Indonesian government is making sure that the aid is slow in coming, that only people loyal to the government get aid, and that the world doesn't find out.


As paranoid as it may sound the us will probably end up getting blamed with not complying with the rules and being “arrogant” even when the rules are causing death and disease

If you'll notice, Indonesia wants to screw the people who live in Aceh.I noticed decades ago.

Civilian aid workers must have Indonesian military escort - armed - at all times....more telling..for Aceh, Journalists need a Jakarta issued special written permission...and military scort.

Indonesia is screwing Aceh. They don't want the world to see it, and they don't want the Americans to see it.Washingtown was aware for 30 years running...
I think that the US isn't involved - that the Indonesian government is making sure that the aid is slow in coming, that only people loyal to the government get aid, and that the world doesn't find out.I m sure the US do not want to slow down Aid to any particular Group. I hope not.

I m sure the US do not want to slow down Aid to any particular Group. I hope not.

Well, if Indonesia wants to slow it down, and the US does not want to slow down, what can the US do?

Invade Indonesia?

Well, if Indonesia wants to slow it down, and the US does not want to slow down, what can the US do?

Invade Indonesia?There is almost nothing we can do for now(ongoing tsunami releif).

But if Washing-town really was for Human rigths (and against torture) ...They would have embargoed Suharto decades ago.

There is almost nothing we can do now.

But if Washing-town really was for Human rigths (and against torture) ...They would have embargoed Suharto decades ago.

There is no instance in modern history where an economic embargo ever affected anything.

Not one.

There is no instance in modern history where an economic embargo ever affected anything.

Not one.lets analize all the embargoes one by one:
First: S.Africa

lets analize all the know situation one by one:
First: S.Africa

Didn't prevent them from making AND marketing a wide range of small arms, and inventing rifle sights that are the standard for US special forces today.

Trijicon would not have existed as a company and been such a success without the embargo.

South Africa also managed to develop an atomic bomb while under embargo.

Diamonds did not radically increase in price during the embargo - they were still on nearly every wedding finger in the US all through the embargo. Diamongs from South Africa.

Didn't prevent them from making AND marketing a wide range of small arms, and inventing rifle sights that are the standard for US special forces today.

Trijicon would not have existed as a company and been such a success without the embargo.

South Africa also managed to develop an atomic bomb while under embargo.

Diamonds did not radically increase in price during the embargo - they were still on nearly every wedding finger in the US all through the embargo. Diamongs from South Africa.
Like in Footbal... "all that matters is the Final score"

I also have read that Myanmar has refused all aid...

That doesn't mean the embargo had anything to do with the victory. In fact, I don't think it could be proven that it shortened anything at all.

Embargos historically hurt those in power the very least of all.

Like in Footbal... "all that matters is the Final score"
final score:

Embargo:1 Apartheid:0

Hmm. You should put that on the post hoc thread, because it is a logical fallacy.

There is no instance in modern history where an economic embargo ever affected anything.

Not one.
Other Country affected with an Embargo is Cuba.
They sure are "affected"

Other Country affected with an Embargo is Cuba.
They sure are "affected"

It's not causing Castro to give up and become a capitalist, now is it?

Open policies with Communist nations, as we seem to have followed with China, seems to work a lot better.

Open policies with Communist nations, as we seem to have followed with China, seems to work a lot better.Then we should stop strangling Cuba (embargo)...Like John Paul II says.

Then we should stop strangling Cuba (embargo)...Like John Paul II says.

Strangling, as you put it, isn't having any real political effect on Cuba.

And as for political relevance, the Pope is a non-entity to me.

There is no instance in modern history where an economic embargo ever affected anything.

Not one.
Cuban missile crisis.

How do you explain that one?

Cuban missile crisis.

How do you explain that one?

Naval blockade, not economic embargo.

Naval blockade, not economic embargo.
:headbang: d'oh!

You're right of course. I should read better.

Strangling, as you put it, isn't having any real political effect on Cuba.Im not only talking about Political effect, but about any serious effect.

In Cuba case its starvation.

Im not only talking about Political effect, but about any serious effect.

In Cuba case its starvation.

Castro says that it's not preventing Cuba from growing all the food it needs, and producing all the medicine it needs, and it's not preventing Cuba from increasing production in steel rods (tripling production, in fact).

It's also not making him leave office, or making the people overthrow him.

If you lifted the embargo, with the sinister idea of exposing Cubans to cheap mass market consumer goods you would have taken them down the same path as the Chinese years ago. That place would be Sin City all over again, just like it was in the 1950s.

Castro says that...Do you beleive everithing Castro says?

Of course we do.. Castro wouldn't lie. He is a most benevolent dictator that understands the needs of his people. Why, if we had more Fidel Castro's in office, the world would be a much better place. The people of Cuba are not being starved, the revolution is going exactly as planned. Civil rights are at an all time high and the people are enjoying the equality that communism has brought to them over the years since the fall of the corrupt Batista government.

Viva la Revolucion!

..Cuba are not being starved, ..the embargo is starving Cuba.

Ridiculous, Cuba is able to farm enough to feed all of its people. It is the media that makes the inflated claims that the people of Cuba are being starved. Sure, they may not be able to eat filet mignon every night, but it is in their best interest not to become overweight and a health risk to themselves.

We should get back to the thread though and discuss how shameful it is that the needy individuals in Banda Aceh are being denied the aide being sent to them by the government..

It's not just in Indonesia.

In India, the lowest caste people (dalits) are regularly being refused aid.


http://foreigndispatches.typepad.com/dispatches/2005/01/ridiculous_cast.html

It's not just in Indonesia.

In India, the lowest caste people (dalits) are regularly being refused aid.


http://foreigndispatches.typepad.com/dispatches/2005/01/ridiculous_cast.html
India Caste regime is like slavery.