NationStates Jolt Archive

German police were busy today raiding mosques and homes while rounding up Muslim extremists. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&e=5&u=/ap/20050112/ap_on_re_eu/germany_islamic_extremists

The question isn't if they should have done the raids or not, but what took them so long. What country will be next and what will they find?

The question isn't if they should have done the raids or not, but what took them so long. What country will be next and what will they find?
Observation untill they had enough for a case against them.

With the regrowth and repopularity of militant neo nazism. I am surprized they had to wait on please raids. Rather than just some of germans finest just firebombing the places.

With the regrowth and repopularity of militant neo nazism. I am surprized they had to wait on please raids. Rather than just some of germans finest just firebombing the places.
:confused:
Where'd that come from?
Germany isn't Nazi by a long shot anymore.
And what are 'please raids'?

:confused:
Where'd that come from?
Germany isn't Nazi by a long shot anymore.
And what are 'please raids'?
Some people are just weird.

Some people are just weird.
I should have learned that already.
Hell, for weird people, turn to Usenet. That one guy who kept claiming the government had beheaded him...
Whoo, "net.k00ks" galore.

German police were busy today raiding mosques and homes while rounding up Muslim extremists. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&e=5&u=/ap/20050112/ap_on_re_eu/germany_islamic_extremists

The question isn't if they should have done the raids or not, but what took them so long. What country will be next and what will they find?
Well, Poland as usual. The German police will raid Poland next and will find poles. Illegal poles... a meter and a half too tall.

"German police took 22 suspects into custody Wednesday during nationwide raids on a network of Muslim extremists that turned up militant Islamic propaganda and forged passports"

Forged passports yes, but is publishing propaganda illegal now? Hmm.

"German police took 22 suspects into custody Wednesday during nationwide raids on a network of Muslim extremists that turned up militant Islamic propaganda and forged passports"

Forged passports yes, but is publishing propaganda illegal now? Hmm.
If it encourages to violence and hate crimes it is illegal. Giving leaflets to your friends is not, but publishing it not allowed.

Forged passports yes, but is publishing propaganda illegal now? Hmm.
Yes, we dont have free speech without barriers.

"German police took 22 suspects into custody Wednesday during nationwide raids on a network of Muslim extremists that turned up militant Islamic propaganda and forged passports"
Forged passports yes, but is publishing propaganda illegal now? Hmm.
Germany has (for obvious reasons) very strict laws on things like propaganda. The right of free speech and expression of mind has well-placed limitations in Germany. Any propaganda that furthers hate and goes against the principles on which Germany as a free and open society is built, is illegal. The Germans have indeed learnt their lesson from history.

I wonder if their law applies to christian fundamentalists, too.

I can see how publishing something urging people to go blow things up might be illegal, but I wonder, where do you draw the line?

The line is where the freedoms that the constitution defines are violated by religious or political ideologies. E.g. when in the south of Germany members of a religious sect refused to send their kids to school the police forced them to, because the state does not allow parents to withhold access to diverse perceptions of the world from their children. And the Constitutional Court also ruled that crucifixes in school rooms have to be taken down if at least one of the pupils is offended by the image of a naked body on a cross (the symbolism of which younger kids would not be able to comprehend).

Well, I hardly think the German government is one of the most dictatorial regimes out there anyway...if these people were planning to stage an attack, then the police are in the right.

"The Islamic Information Center in Ulm was among the sites that were searched. A reporter who went there Wednesday afternoon found the place closed and dark, with a sticker on the door saying "Islam is peace."

Nearly 60 buildings in all were searched Wednesday, including apartments, mosques and call centers, Baden-Wuerttemberg Interior Minister Heribert Rech said."

Though this part is a little strange, especially considering they only detained 22 people.

I saw on a newspaper prince Harry wore a nazi costume in a party reply back what do u think.

I saw on a newspaper prince Harry wore a nazi costume in a party reply back what do u think.

I think he should be sent on a compulsory guided tour of former death camps, that's what.

I think he should be sent on a compulsory guided tour of former death camps, that's what.The death camps were disgusting

The death camps were disgusting

Yeah, and thats why he should go. He might learn some respect. (if it's true)

And there are people on this forum that complain about the US Patriot Act...

I think he should be sent on a compulsory guided tour of former death camps, that's what.


The so called "death camps" are nothing but propagandi lies, please do not spread them. There was no such thing as death camps in nazi germany. There was only work camps off course people died there but that was not there purpose, they were only work camps. The main causes of death in such camps was common diseases of the time like influenza.

The so called "death camps" are nothing but propagandi lies, please do not spread them. There was no such thing as death camps in nazi germany. There was only work camps off course people died there but that was not there purpose, they were only work camps. The main causes of death in such camps was common diseases of the time like influenza.

You haven't been to Dachau, or Auschwitz, have you?

Never seen the gas chambers?

The so called "death camps" are nothing but propagandi lies, please do not spread them. There was no such thing as death camps in nazi germany. There was only work camps off course people died there but that was not there purpose, they were only work camps. The main causes of death in such camps was common diseases of the time like influenza.

You tell that to my grandfather who had to clean the trains after they disposed of their "labour".

You haven't been to Dachau, or Auschwitz, have you?

Never seen the gas chambers?The gas chambers looked like showers and the nazis say to the people they have to have a shower and they play music and give them post cards and say they can write to their family but the nazis chuck a way the post cards and they give them towels and seal them in the gas chambers and release the gas carbon mioxide or something else they collect the bodys and burn them thats what my history teacher told us.

www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,grossbild-425565-336618,00.html

The so called "death camps" are nothing but propagandi lies, please do not spread them. There was no such thing as death camps in nazi germany. There was only work camps off course people died there but that was not there purpose, they were only work camps. The main causes of death in such camps was common diseases of the time like influenza.



Yes of course. Those 6 million Jews plus Gypsies, Socialists, Communists, Disabled, elderly really did go and live in the east and were so happy they were never seen or heard of again because of the infinite happiness.

The main causes of deaths in the camps was the persecution inflicted. Firing squads, deliberate starvation, the gassing.

The SS Guards would try to starve off the boredom of commiting genocide on a day by day basis by placing bets on what colours the bodies of the victims would be after the gas showers.

Blue? Black? Red? Purple? Orange?

My what fun they had with those games.

Then after a day of genocide, they would go to sleep, dream soundlessly, then wake up in the morning, and play a game called 'Goose'

This involved having a prisoner in a space surrounded by SS Guards. They would make the prisoner goosestep in accordance with how a proud Nazi would do it.

If he did not goosestep correctly, why, fun would ensue! The setting of Alsatian dogs on the prisoner was a joy to behold, seeing him ripped apart limb from limb.

And let's not forget the game of 'run' where prisoners were forced to run up flights of stairs to the top and at each floor they reached, a friendly German SS Guard would be waiting with a lovely hard truncheon to hit the prisoner with, you know, to give a bit of friendly encouragement.

Yes, those skinny people you saw in the concentration camps, they were not really starved to death by those SS Guards. Oh no! No, they were on The Atkins Diet.

And those bloated, ripe bodies, that were poisoned from gas, why, it is sheer folly to believe anything else apart from the fact that they all died of the flu was it not.

Seriously. Learn. Educate yourself. You come across as one of these people who deny the holocaust ever happened, and that the Nazis were really good and lovely chaps, and that Mr Hitler was a cuddly chap one could leave one's kids with.

Visit Auchwitz. Visit the surviving victims.

Death was the order of the day. Denial is apparently yours.

The so called "death camps" are nothing but propagandi lies, please do not spread them. There was no such thing as death camps in nazi germany. There was only work camps off course people died there but that was not there purpose, they were only work camps. The main causes of death in such camps was common diseases of the time like influenza.

you are aware of the fact that negationism is a crime, aren't you?

That has got to be the most sarcastic post I've EVER seen in my time here at NS. Congrats!


P.S. (I love sarcasm)

With the regrowth and repopularity of militant neo nazism. I am surprized they had to wait on please raids. Rather than just some of germans finest just firebombing the places.
Nazis and militant islamists get along well together. Just look at all the Nazi symbols and slogans spraypainted in palestinian graffiti.

"German police took 22 suspects into custody Wednesday during nationwide raids on a network of Muslim extremists that turned up militant Islamic propaganda and forged passports"

Forged passports yes, but is publishing propaganda illegal now? Hmm.
I've heard that Germany has strict hate speech laws.

Yeah, and thats why he should go. He might learn some respect. (if it's true)
It's true. On another note, in a recent poll it was found that 45% of British adults hadn't ever heard of Auschwitz.

The so called "death camps" are nothing but propagandi lies, please do not spread them. There was no such thing as death camps in nazi germany. There was only work camps off course people died there but that was not there purpose, they were only work camps. The main causes of death in such camps was common diseases of the time like influenza.
And Zyklon B. It's a natural cause of death because when you inhale it, naturally you die.

That has got to be the most sarcastic post I've EVER seen in my time here at NS. Congrats!


P.S. (I love sarcasm)


Thanks :)

It's true. On another note, in a recent poll it was found that 45% of British adults hadn't ever heard of Auschwitz.

Thats simply...unbelievable.

Lest we forget.

The so called "death camps" are nothing but propagandi lies, please do not spread them. There was no such thing as death camps in nazi germany. There was only work camps off course people died there but that was not there purpose, they were only work camps. The main causes of death in such camps was common diseases of the time like influenza.

Even if we are to believe the opinion that they were not "death camps", the fact that Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, political prisoners, and the mentally and physically disabled were used as slave labor and left to die of commonly treatable and preventable diseases is pretty monstrous.

Your claim also refutes the physical evidence in the form of crematoria, mass graves, the existence of human-skin lampshades and soap rendered from human bodies, as well as the the many hours of questioning at Nuremberg and very detailed notes left behind of the experiments performed on the unfortunate denizens of such camps.

It's true. On another note, in a recent poll it was found that 45% of British adults hadn't ever heard of Auschwitz.

I think it was 45 per cent of children, but I could be wrong.

Still, British adults can be childish.

"Do you like my alloys?"

"See Eastenders last night? Good eh?"

"That Facking ref is blind."

"We had to declare war on Argentina after they took The Falklands. They were just off the Scottish coast after all."

"she deserves a bloody good shag"

"Yeah, 18 grand you say you earn? Try 30. With a car, a house, wife, kids, and a mistress on the side."

"Do you share......OR SHAFT?!"

Still, British adults can be childish.

"That Facking ref is blind."

"she deserves a bloody good shag"

Ditto for Aussies with these two. :p

Ditto for Aussies with these two. :p

lol :p

Any propaganda that...goes against the principles on which Germany as a free and open society is built, is illegal.

Am I the only one who sees the incredible irony here?

Even if we are to believe the opinion that they were not "death camps"
You can't argue with holocaust deniers, they have made a decision and are running around looking for 'evidence' to back it up.

They are greatly aided by the fact that the other side does the same thing...but no rational person will excuse the Nazis because they killed slightly less people than we thought, or because some prisoners were starved/worked to death rather than being gassed.

Maybe one day, we will get rid of the plague of the Modern Age: Islam. This is a step in the right direction!

I wonder why the hell you brought up a discussion about nazis in this thread despite this thread has (originally) nothing to do with Nazis. It's a shame that so many people outside of Germany think of "Nazis" first whenever they hear "Germany" or "German". And not a shame for Germany but for the others, because they know so few about modern Germany.
Germany is one of the world's most free and democratic nations!

Maybe one day, we will get rid of the plague of the Modern Age: Islam. This is a step in the right direction!
Let's not stop there. All religion must go.

The Germany then and the germany now does give hope to those who fear the worst for America at the moment.

Superterra, the plague of the modern age is ignorance. You have just shown a typical example.

Maybe one day, we will get rid of the plague of the Modern Age: Islam. This is a step in the right direction!

I am a member of the Baha'i Faith and many thousands of my co-religionist have been marytred in Iran, and many thousands of others have been deprived of basic human rights. Yet, I dont think doing away with Islam is a statement that anyone should even think about, let alone share in a public forum. Evil only begets evil; anger begets anger; hatred begets hatred.

I wonder why the hell you brought up a discussion about nazis in this thread despite this thread has (originally) nothing to do with Nazis
I agree that the association is made too often, but it's kind of unavoidable to think of it when Germans go after a religious minority on the basis of their speech!

I agree that the association is made too often, but it's kind of unavoidable to think of it when Germans go after a religious minority on the basis of their speech!
Now thats just complete and utter BS. :rolleyes:
You wouldn't say that if they instead had raided a neo nazi group.

Let's not stop there. All religion must go.
No way. Treat it like cigarettes and gambling: if you do it moderately in your private life, great, none of anyone's business. If you want to make it a big business and rip off the stupid people, it should be taxed to the gills.

No way. Treat it like cigarettes and gambling: if you do it moderately in your private life, great, none of anyone's business. If you want to make it a big business and rip off the stupid people, it should be taxed to the gills.
We can use the tax money for anti-religion ad campaigns and to help those who want to quit.

Now thats just complete and utter BS. :rolleyes:
You wouldn't say that if they instead had raided a neo nazi group.
Of course I would. Criminalization of speech which does not incite violence is a Nazilike move, even if it's used against Nazis.

We can use the tax money for anti-religion ad campaigns and to help those who want to quit.

And addicts can wear..uh...Jesustine patches?

Let's not stop there. All religion must go.
Agreed. But Islam first. It's the worst.


I am a member of the Baha'i Faith and many thousands of my co-religionist have been marytred in Iran, and many thousands of others have been deprived of basic human rights.
I don't care. If it prevents Islam, it must be good. All religion should be outlawed and forbidden, but since Islam is the worst one, it should be the first one.

Agreed. But Islam first. It's the worst.


I don't care. If it prevents Islam, it must be good. All religion should be outlawed and forbidden, but since Islam is the worst one, it should be the first one.


It is the worst in your opinion. However, there are millions of moderates -- and non-Muslims at that -- who would strongly disagree with you.

Why so many people hate religions? I can understand if some people don't like Christianity because of The Bible (which is only a book, it has mistakes), but what is wrong in believing something divine? I believe there is a God. God of Islam? God of Christianity? Buddha? I don't know, but I think there's got to be a Creator and Lord of some kind. Believe what you want, it should not harm you.

EDIT: Possible bad grammar exists, sorry.

Why so many people hate religions? I can understand if some people don't like Christianity because of The Bible (which is only a book, it has mistakes), but what is wrong in believing something divine? I believe there is a God. God of Islam? God of Christianity? Buddha? I don't know, but I think there's got to be a Creator and Lord of some kind. Believe what you want, it should not harm you.

EDIT: Possible bad grammar exists, sorry.
Organized religion with perhaps a limited number of exceptions (B'hai comes to mind) are divisive due to their claims to exclusive possesion of divine truth. If you beleive you have the truth and everyone else is mistaken you tend to look down on them at best, and persecute them as heretics at worst. Religion is just one more source of conflict that we don't need. It gives us no tangible benefits, only holds us back.

I agree that the association is made too often, but it's kind of unavoidable to think of it when Germans go after a religious minority on the basis of their speech!
The reason why the german authorities act like that is exactly because they do not want to repeat the mistakes made in the Weimar Republic (the democratic era between the world wars), in which the Nazis could openly broadcast their message of hate.

Americans often make the mistake to think that "Free Speech" means that everybody can say what he wants, but Germany has decided that nobody may abuse their right of Free Speech to fight against democracy, other religious/ethnic groups (and thus the german basic law). That's the way it should be.

Organized religion with perhaps a limited number of exceptions (B'hai comes to mind) are divisive due to their claims to exclusive possesion of divine truth. If you beleive you have the truth and everyone else is mistaken you tend to look down on them at best, and persecute them as heretics at worst. Religion is just one more source of conflict that we don't need. It gives us no tangible benefits, only holds us back.

How many religions don't have an organization form, more or less centralized?

It is the worst in your opinion. However, there are millions of moderates -- and non-Muslims at that -- who would strongly disagree with you.
Yeah, we need to get rid of those as well. I live in a suburb where at least 40% of the families are muslim - none of them match to openmindness of atheists or even Christians. The average muslim is as much a threat to the world and democracy as those in Al-Qaida and other muslim terrorist-groups.

How many religions don't have an organization form, more or less centralized?
B'hai has no clerics, so no centralized organization. Wicca and other new age religions aren't organized. Some types of Buddhism would fit the description as well as Taoism. Animists and Pantheists to my knowledge don't have a central authority.

Of course I would. Criminalization of speech which does not incite violence is a Nazilike move, even if it's used against Nazis.
In this case we do talk about speech inciting violence against political, racial or religious groups.
And what do you think would happen if a islamist group in the US would be found having propaganda leaflets calling for the death of Bush, the installation of a theocracy and extermination of all jews by any means neccessary? I dont think they would be left to do whatever they plan.

In this case we do talk about speech inciting violence against political, racial or religious groups.
And what do you think would happen if a islamist group in the US would be found having propaganda leaflets calling for the death of Bush, the installation of a theocracy and extermination of all jews by any means neccessary? I dont think they would be left to do whatever they plan.
They would probably get their own talkshow.

They would probably get their own talkshow.
Or a reality gameshow. "Who wants to participate in a martyrdom operation against the imperialist crusader zionist alliance?"

Or a reality gameshow. "Who wants to participate in a martyrdom operation against the imperialist crusader zionist alliance?"
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Sounds like a fun show!!!

Any propaganda that...goes against the principles on which Germany as a free and open society is built, is illegal.Am I the only one who sees the incredible irony here?There is absolutely no irony in this. In an open and free society the well-being of all can only be secured when those WHO GO TO FAR can be kept under control. The freedom of expression of a person ends where the realization of ideas expressed thus would violate the freedom of others. E.g. it is severely punishable if a person or group would in their propaganda call for the bashing of members of minorities or if their propaganda would call for the use of violence in the pursuit of their respective religious or political aims.

"German police took 22 suspects into custody Wednesday during nationwide raids on a network of Muslim extremists that turned up militant Islamic propaganda and forged passports"

Forged passports yes, but is publishing propaganda illegal now? Hmm.
Yeah actually, its illegal in germany to claim the holocaust never happened, this is another step of Germany having a reasonable, yet authoritarian government.

Also in Germany, it is also illegal to own Hitler's Mein Kampf. I take it this Germany's attempt to prevent what happened in the Netherlands.

It's good though that everyone's finally realizing that Islamic terrorists hate you no matter how much you do for them and their goal is to destroy or subjugate all nonMuslims especially Jews and Americans.

It's sad though that Europe actively supports the Palestinian causes, compares Bush to Hitler, and punishes Israel any chance it gets when anyone who has extensively studied WWII-era Middle Eastern politics will find that the Arabs were even nationalist than they are now and were very closely allied with Hitler, hence Bat Ye'or's term for Islamic terrorists, "Islamofascists". By the way, you guys should check out his new book called Eurabia.

Note the new PA leader, Abu Mazen/Mahmoud Abbas is a Holocaust denier. Therefore any thoughtful person would oppose this man.

Also in Germany, it is also illegal to own Hitler's Mein Kampf. I take it this Germany's attempt to prevent what happened in the Netherlands.
It's been outlawed since the end of WWII. Has nothing to with the Netehrlands.

It's good though that everyone's finally realizing that Islamic terrorists hate you no matter how much you do for them and their goal is to destroy or subjugate all Americans.
Now, I can live with that. :D

It's sad though that Europe actively supports the Palestinian causes, compares Bush to Hitler
Cause there are so many similarities.
http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/98/387/11693_bush.html

http://www.falloutshelternews.com/What_Would_Hitler_Do.html

and punishes Israel any chance it gets
Unfortunatly that is just wishfull thinking.
when anyone who has extensively studied WWII-era Middle Eastern politics will find that the Arabs were even nationalist than they are now and were very closely allied with Hitler
Now now. Let's not excaturate. Yes there were plans to get some Imams call for Jihad. In order to create a 4th front for the Allies to play with. But they never were carried out.

B'hai has no clerics, so no centralized organization. Wicca and other new age religions aren't organized. Some types of Buddhism would fit the description as well as Taoism. Animists and Pantheists to my knowledge don't have a central authority.

Drunk commies, I just want to clarify one thing about the Baha'i Faith. It is true that there are no clerics in the Baha'i Faith--maybe that is why the Muslim Mullah's persecuted them so much. But there is organization, and yes; it fairly decentralized. Each Baha'i community elects nine members, without any electioneering of any kind, and no nominations for the office, from the community to handle the needs and affairs of the community. It works wonderfully; and this happens in large communities such as New York City and small villages in India, Mongolia.

Ah the myth of the holocaust how long are the lies that it happened going to milked used and abused by certain groups of people.

I have personally been on trips to auschwitz and birkenau. They are nothing special really. You have alot of emotive propaganda in those places to try and make people feel bad, but they lack hard substancial evidense.

Its strange the study of History is about questioning the past, yet you are not allowed to question the holocaust. Why is that? Are people worried about the actual truth coming out if proper scientific studies are carried out. If you visist auschwitz, they show you rooms that were supposedly gas chambers when infact they were not, auschwitz has no such things. That is just one of the many lies about the holocaust that has been told for years. Link1 (http://www.geniebusters.org/915/04g_gas.html) , Link2 (http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v15/v15n1p23_Weber.html). People should judge and think about them freely for themselves rather that than just believing the lies. You had enemy of the state who were dying of influenza a killer disease back then not easily treatable. You had people dying of starvation, the whoe german country was on starvation rations there was a war on food near the end of the war beame indramatic short supply and the simple truth is first you feed your own people then you feed your prisoners.

Of course it is not really safe to question history about the holocaust too many people have a vested in keeping the lies flowing. There is massive organisations to discredite anyone who attempts to question history as history is supposed to. You get slandered and become a so called neo nazi, like renound brittish historian David irving.

Think for yourself, don't believe the lies told by the media, check out what group of people owns mostly the media and has a vested intrest in keeping the lies going.

Ah the myth of the holocaust how long are the lies that it happened going to milked used and abused by certain groups of people.

I have personally been on trips to auschwitz and birkenau. They are nothing special really. You have alot of emotive propaganda in those places to try and make people feel bad, but they lack hard substancial evidense.

Its strange the study of History is about questioning the past, yet you are not allowed to question the holocaust. Why is that? Are people worried about the actual truth coming out if proper scientific studies are carried out. If you visist auschwitz, they show you rooms that were supposedly gas chambers when infact they were not, auschwitz has no such things. That is just one of the many lies about the holocaust that has been told for years. Link1 (http://www.geniebusters.org/915/04g_gas.html) , Link2 (http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v15/v15n1p23_Weber.html). People should judge and think about them freely for themselves rather that than just believing the lies. You had enemy of the state who were dying of influenza a killer disease back then not easily treatable. You had people dying of starvation, the whoe german country was on starvation rations there was a war on food near the end of the war beame indramatic short supply and the simple truth is first you feed your own people then you feed your prisoners.

Of course it is not really safe to question history about the holocaust too many people have a vested in keeping the lies flowing. There is massive organisations to discredite anyone who attempts to question history as history is supposed to. You get slandered and become a so called neo nazi, like renound brittish historian David irving.

Think for yourself, don't believe the lies told by the media, check out what group of people owns mostly the media and has a vested intrest in keeping the lies going.


So I suppose my great uncle, who liberated one of the camps and found the piles of corpses is a liar? I guess the people who boasted they were only killing jews were making it up in order to get executed for war crimes, too? And all the documents concerning the killings, especially the onces on the progress and improvements of the gas are hoaxes as well? I guess General Eisenhower, who ordered all of his senior officers to tour the camps and see for themselves what had happened just faked it all on a moments notice?

Please. It happened. There are some folks who would like to claim it never did, but they are fools who would likely try to do it themselves if they could. Also, please note:

Not one person ever tried for war crimes in these camps ever denied these things happened. You'd think that would be your first defense, no?

So I suppose my great uncle, who liberated one of the camps and found the piles of corpses is a liar?


Not your 'uncle' but probally you. I sincerely doubt you had any such uncle.


I guess the people who boasted they were only killing jews were making it up in order to get executed for war crimes, too? And all the documents concerning the killings, especially the onces on the progress and improvements of the gas are hoaxes as well? I guess General Eisenhower, who ordered all of his senior officers to tour the camps and see for themselves what had happened just faked it all on a moments notice


History is written by the winners not by the losers. If it was productive too spread lies about such camps as it was it would easily be done. Lying to your own people as well as the enemy is a major part of warfare.

Also in Germany, it is also illegal to own Hitler's Mein Kampf. I take it this Germany's attempt to prevent what happened in the Netherlands.
It's good though that everyone's finally realizing that Islamic terrorists hate you no matter how much you do for them and their goal is to destroy or subjugate all nonMuslims especially Jews and Americans.
It's sad though that Europe actively supports the Palestinian causes, compares Bush to Hitler, and punishes Israel any chance it gets when anyone who has extensively studied WWII-era Middle Eastern politics will find that the Arabs were even nationalist than they are now and were very closely allied with Hitler, hence Bat Ye'or's term for Islamic terrorists, "Islamofascists". By the way, you guys should check out his new book called Eurabia.
Note the new PA leader, Abu Mazen/Mahmoud Abbas is a Holocaust denier. Therefore any thoughtful person would oppose this man.
And one who has extensively studied WWI-era Middle Eastern politics will find that the Arabs were comletely right in doing so. And European support for Palestinians is completely justified. Without the implanted state of Israel there would simply be no Middle-East-Conflict. And if the Jews had integrated better in the countries they chose to live in, instead of creating parallel societies due to their isolationist ideologies, there would be no need for a Jewish state. And there is no need to argue any differently, since we have all read the Bible and know how stupidly aggressive the original followers of (the Israelite version of) Yah are and what their attitude towards all others is. One need not wonder that the metastases (like Christianity and Islam) of this ideological cancer called Judaism are no less hateful towards all that is different from their own views. That's one thing.
The other thing is about what Germany and other European countries do. They protect their societies and the civil liberties they want for their population. A state has every right to illegalize harmful ideologies and prevent propaganda for such ideologies from spreading. We see governments taking action against islamistic groups all over Europe, and this has nothing to do with not giving the right of free speech to all.

Ah the myth of the holocaust how long are the lies that it happened going to milked used and abused by certain groups of people.

I have personally been on trips to auschwitz and birkenau. They are nothing special really. You have alot of emotive propaganda in those places to try and make people feel bad, but they lack hard substancial evidense.

Its strange the study of History is about questioning the past, yet you are not allowed to question the holocaust. Why is that? Are people worried about the actual truth coming out if proper scientific studies are carried out. If you visist auschwitz, they show you rooms that were supposedly gas chambers when infact they were not, auschwitz has no such things. That is just one of the many lies about the holocaust that has been told for years. Link1 (http://www.geniebusters.org/915/04g_gas.html) , Link2 (http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v15/v15n1p23_Weber.html). People should judge and think about them freely for themselves rather that than just believing the lies. You had enemy of the state who were dying of influenza a killer disease back then not easily treatable. You had people dying of starvation, the whoe german country was on starvation rations there was a war on food near the end of the war beame indramatic short supply and the simple truth is first you feed your own people then you feed your prisoners.

Of course it is not really safe to question history about the holocaust too many people have a vested in keeping the lies flowing. There is massive organisations to discredite anyone who attempts to question history as history is supposed to. You get slandered and become a so called neo nazi, like renound brittish historian David irving.

Think for yourself, don't believe the lies told by the media, check out what group of people owns mostly the media and has a vested intrest in keeping the lies going.


Actually, the Germans had it quite good for food up until about '44, when the Soviets really started pressing in.

But of course, as you would probably say, the concentration camps were actually Atkins Diet Fitness centres, and the people there all dropped dead from the flu. Never mind the bullet riddled bodies, young and old. Never mind the blackened and bloated bodies from gas poisoning. No. We don't know how they got there.....they just turned up one day. No, you see...... everybody died from the flu.......apparently.

None of this gas poisoning nonsense!

None of this ex-ter-min-nation!

And the final solution! Ha! What was that all about eh? How to kill 6 million people in the quickest manner? No! What they were really talking about was the final solution to a crossword!



Get with the real world.

And the final solution! Ha! What was that all about eh? How to kill 6 million people in the quickest manner?

Get with the real world.


Keeping people in camps, feeding them, giving them medical care is the the quickest manner to kill them. The quickest manner to kill someone would be to shoot them on the spot when they are found. Quickest and easiest. That is getting real.

Interesting side point, People often talk about how the "holocaust" killed 6 million jews. Yet historical records from the the time show that even before the war started there was much less than that figure actually around.

And people talk about such things as the german final solution, they completely ignore the Nazi plans of turning Madagascar into a jewish state and homeland for the jews. Some final solution that is.

Keeping people in camps, feeding them, giving them medical care is the the quickest manner to kill them. The quickest manner to kill someone would be to shoot them on the spot when they are found. Quickest and easiest. That is getting real.

Interesting side point, People often talk about how the "holocaust" killed 6 million jews. Yet historical records from the the time show that even before the war started there was much less than that figure actually around.

And people talk about such things as the german final solution, they completely ignore the Nazi plans of turning Madagascar into a jewish state and homeland for the jews. Some final solution that is.

I suppose that you're unfamiliar with the Wannsee Conference, and the drawing up of the plans for the Final Solution.

Yes, they had other ideas at first. But they grew angry and impatient.

They kept meticulous records of the people they killed using the gas. They had to know if they were meeting the quotas.

Drunk commies, I just want to clarify one thing about the Baha'i Faith. It is true that there are no clerics in the Baha'i Faith--maybe that is why the Muslim Mullah's persecuted them so much. But there is organization, and yes; it fairly decentralized. Each Baha'i community elects nine members, without any electioneering of any kind, and no nominations for the office, from the community to handle the needs and affairs of the community. It works wonderfully; and this happens in large communities such as New York City and small villages in India, Mongolia.
If I keep insisting that there's no centralized organization would you get angry and hate me?

Forged passports yes, but is publishing propaganda illegal now? Hmm.


German law forbids the publication of anything deemed likely to incite any real degree of racial, ethnic, or religious hatred or violence.


It's basically a state where political correctness is written into law.


They take it so seriously you can't publicly speak out against Israel unless you want to be branded an anti-semite and face fines or worse.


You can't even sing Das Lied der Deutschen, their old anthem from the 19th century, "Germany, Germany, above all others" because it says "above all others" and Nationalism suddenly is bad.



The song is also known as, Deutschland über alles.

Keeping people in camps, feeding them, giving them medical care is the the quickest manner to kill them. The quickest manner to kill someone would be to shoot them on the spot when they are found. Quickest and easiest. That is getting real.

Interesting side point, People often talk about how the "holocaust" killed 6 million jews. Yet historical records from the the time show that even before the war started there was much less than that figure actually around.

And people talk about such things as the german final solution, they completely ignore the Nazi plans of turning Madagascar into a jewish state and homeland for the jews. Some final solution that is.

The quickest manner, according to the Nazis, to kill people in concentration camps was not via the bullet.

To the Nazis and their thinking, it was a waste of bullets and infantry in a time of war, so they devised the gassing chambers.

By medical care, I assume you mean the experiments carried out by SS Doctors of sewing the skins of people together so they became one, or the other experiments carried out.

Yes that was medical 'care' alright.

The figure of 6 million jewish people can be disputed, not as a denial of the holocaust but that the 6 million figure also consists of the disabled, communists, socialists, christians, catholics, gypsies.

I can't really see how you think shipping Jewish people to Madagascar is acceptable, it's another example of Nazi Xenophobism, but that aside, they were not shipped to Madagascar, they were slaughtered. That was the Nazi Final Solution.

Oh and by the way, I would appreciate it that when you do quote me in future, you do not cut large parts of my quote out so that the remainder appears to fit in with your view on the subject.

For example, you quoted me as saying this:

"And the final solution! Ha! What was that all about eh? How to kill 6 million people in the quickest manner?
Get with the real world."


IN FACT I said the following:

"And the final solution! Ha! What was that all about eh? How to kill 6 million people in the quickest manner? No! What they were really talking about was the final solution to a crossword!
Get with the real world."


You cut out my sarcasm which showed that I ridiculed the denial of the final solution, to make it appear in accordance with your view.

Feel free to keep doing this misquoting if you want, but I'll just think of you as even more as a Goebels who keeps his Mein Kampf under his pillow.

You can't even sing Das Lied der Deutschen, their old anthem from the 19th century, "Germany, Germany, above all others" because it says "above all others" and Nationalism suddenly is bad.

The song is also known as, Deutschland über alles.

It's still the national anthem of Germany. You just can't sing certain verses or lines.

I still remember the first time I heard a German military band playing it.

I was asleep at the time (had the day off), and the music woke me right up.

It's basically a state where political correctness is written into law.


They take it so seriously you can't publicly speak out against Israel unless you want to be branded an anti-semite and face fines or worse.
Yeah. It's fucking ridicoulouse.



The song is also known as, Deutschland über alles.
And as: Das Deutschlandlied. And it's still the national hymn. Just that particular part is outlawed.

I wonder if their law applies to christian fundamentalists, too.

Of course they do. The giv actually cracked down on scientology pretty hard about 10 years ago or on some small, but extremley militant "Christian Aryan Army" group.

I can see how publishing something urging people to go blow things up might be illegal, but I wonder, where do you draw the line?

You draw the line exactly there: If it urges violence against others, you get the boot. That simple.

German law forbids the publication of anything deemed likely to incite any real degree of racial, ethnic, or religious hatred or violence.


It's basically a state where political correctness is written into law.


They take it so seriously you can't publicly speak out against Israel unless you want to be branded an anti-semite and face fines or worse.

Now this is funny. Last time I spoke ut against Israel in some forum online (I said something like "blowing up that 70 year old turd in that wheelchair surely will help Israel convince the Palis of their good intentions) I was immediatley branded as a ravaging anti-semite, followed by a "not suprisingly, because your German" by some folks from the US. Now that really cracked me up. On the other hand we´re ridiculized for a "we won´t comment anything negative on Israel", but if we dare to critize a little everyone points at us again and shouts "Nazi! You´re a fucking nazi! You son of a bitch!".

It´s a difficult historical heritage to live with.

Back to topic. Those Islamists who got cracked down upon had it coming for quite a while. The "Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz" and it´s Landesämter had been itching for this for a long time. We got some very serious issues with a number of increasingly militant Islamists over here. That and people who aid them or use our country to fund and organize their actions around the globe.

Better crack down on them now, before something bad happens.

That´s neither fascist, authoritarian or discriminatory, as some people here suggested. It´s plan necessary.

And BTW, owning a copy of "Mein Kampf" ain´t illegal. You just may not try to sell it OR display it in public.

And BTW, owning a copy of "Mein Kampf" ain´t illegal. You just may not try to sell it OR display it in public.

American bases in Germany have the "Stars and Stripes Bookstore", since there isn't a Borders on post.

Guess which has been the number one selling book for its stores in Germany every year running?

American bases in Germany have the "Stars and Stripes Bookstore", since there isn't a Borders on post.

Guess which has been the number one selling book for its stores in Germany every year running?

You´re trying to say?

I think he should be sent on a compulsory guided tour of former death camps, that's what.
William and Harry are both being sent on a tour of Auschwitz. According to the account I read, Prince Charles was "incandescent with rage." I loved the imagery.
I hope Citox leaves soon. He's soooo flamebait.

Wow! I'm impressed at the twists and turns my original post tool. Interesting. Very interesting.

German police were busy today raiding mosques and homes while rounding up Muslim extremists. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&e=5&u=/ap/20050112/ap_on_re_eu/germany_islamic_extremists

The question isn't if they should have done the raids or not, but what took them so long. What country will be next and what will they find?

Wow! I'm impressed at the twists and turns my original post took. Interesting. Very interesting.

This thread shows me that way too many people still have no clue about modern Germany AND Germany's history, and that clichees are still dominating everything.

Shame on all those ignorant people in the world (Including several of you)!

PS: Yes, I'm German...

just do it man...i'm totaly agree with that decision :sniper:

This thread shows me that way too many people still have no clue about modern Germany AND Germany's history, and that clichees are still dominating everything.

Shame on all those ignorant people in the world (Including several of you)!

PS: Yes, I'm German...


DON'T MENTION THE WAR!

DON'T MENTION THE WAR!
Guess you're a Brit...

This thread shows me that way too many people still have no clue about modern Germany AND Germany's history, and that clichees are still dominating everything.

Shame on all those ignorant people in the world (Including several of you)!

PS: Yes, I'm German...


Well, the political viewpoint of Germans seemed to be tied to their age (last time I was in Germany in the 1990s). Go old enough, and you could get them to hold that right arm out involuntarily (just salute that was from a military vehicle at some old women and see what happens).

Go young enough, and they don't even seem to be from the same country, let alone the same parents. Germany seems to have undergone a substantial transformation from a political viewpoint.

Guess you're a Brit...

I guess you're from Germany... ;)

This thread shows me that way too many people still have no clue about modern Germany AND Germany's history, and that clichees are still dominating everything.

Shame on all those ignorant people in the world (Including several of you)!

PS: Yes, I'm German...

Yes, I started this. Yes, I agree "that way to many people...have no clue about Germany AND Germany's history." You are a very proud people and have every right to show pride in what your country has accomplished. Many other countries have their "bad points in history” but are not willing to admit them.