NationStates Jolt Archive

I heard on the radio that Hugo Chavez has taken it upon himself to decide if a piece of private property isn't productive enough. If he determines it isn't it will be siezed and handed over to farming cooperatives. So much for private property rights in Venezuela. No wonder the rich and middle class are moving to the USA, Australia and Europe. As a bonus they're taking their money with them. Venezuela is screwed.

I know. It's horrible how the working class may finally have a say in how the means of production are managed. We must protect the élites ordained by God himself to rule over the worker!

Chavez and Castro are good friends, or so I heard. Maybe he sent Chavez a pack of Cuban Cigars for a little more communism.

I know. It's horrible how the working class may finally have a say in how the means of production are managed. We must protect the élites ordained by God himself to rule over the worker!
Under anarcho-communism the elites ordained by god would no longer be protected and the workers would rule themselves.

Most of the rich are from USA and Europe. They are just returning home.

I know. It's horrible how the working class may finally have a say in how the means of production are managed. We must protect the élites ordained by God himself to rule over the worker!
And communism works so well. Remember how well constructed soviet cars were? Or what a high standard of living the Vietnamese enjoy? The best way is well regulated capitalism. You provide a social safety net for the poor, and let business run efficiently so long as it respects people's rights. Communism just won't work.

I know. It's horrible how the working class may finally have a say in how the means of production are managed. We must protect the élites ordained by God himself to rule over the worker!

If Hugo Chavez is the one who gets to decide (or his close associates), I would hardly think that they themselves are the working class.

I have this mental picture of some working class Venezuelans wishing they were Chavez.

If you think that his decisions will always be fair, and always be just, and always be right, then go ahead and stay there. But don't expect to accumulate anything tangible, because he could come by at any moment and say it belongs to him and his friends.

... Communism just won't work.

It's still quite far from communism...

It's still quite far from communism...
Getting closer by the day.

And communism works so well. Remember how well constructed soviet cars were? Or what a high standard of living the Vietnamese enjoy? The best way is well regulated capitalism. You provide a social safety net for the poor, and let business run efficiently so long as it respects people's rights. Communism just won't work.

Most of those examples were state capitalism rather than true communism. In truth, this one will probably end up no better, but regulated capitalism is still capitalism. At least Chavez is risking international condemnation to help the workers, even if he is doing it in a historically ineffective way.

No, it's National Socialism... I seize some property, while my good friends get to keep their businesses...

erm.... Whogo Chavez?

erm.... Whogo Chavez?
President of Venezuela. BTW I'm going there later this year for my oldest friend's wedding.

The best way is well regulated capitalism. You provide a social safety net for the poor, and let business run efficiently so long as it respects people's rights. Communism just won't work.

Ok, so you're right. But it doesn't happen. I'd say there was a greater chance of Communism working than a society being able to regulate capitalism well enough. The world was fine when we had primitive Communism...admittedly, we were still in the stone age, but nonetheless, the world was fine.

Ok, so you're right. But it doesn't happen. I'd say there was a greater chance of Communism working than a society being able to regulate capitalism well enough. The world was fine when we had primitive Communism...admittedly, we were still in the stone age, but nonetheless, the world was fine.

Yeah, life expectancy was at an all time high then...

That, and we all had teeth worse than if we were British...

Yeah, life expectancy was at an all time high then...

That, and we all had teeth worse than if we were British...

Well, I'm British anyway, so it really makes no difference. And I wouldn't be so bothered about my life expectancy either, as I believe that I would have had a far more fulfilling life then than I would have now. Can't help but feel this is wandering off topic though...

If Hugo Chavez is the one who gets to decide...he gets to Decide because he was elected President...And it was never as Close as Bush in Florida(and no he dint use a appointed Supreme Court either).

If the elected Prez does not get to decide...Who the Fuck does?

he gets to Decide because he was elected President...And it was never as Close as Bush in Florida.

If the elected Prez does not get to decide...Who the Fuck does?

The free market.

The free market.

Translation: "Rich people"

The free market.
So lets Get rid of Bush we dont need him...The chimp can go on Permanent Vacation.(that would not change his work habits anyways)

Under anarcho-communism the elites ordained by god would no longer be protected and the workers would rule themselves.

lmao

and their economy will fail because most of your workers don't know squat about business.

successful people are made to sound as if only their parents made them rich... when in reality probably most of them became successful due to a combination of brains and resolve... sometimes luck, yes, but who dares wins.

Force those people out of the country.. and who's going to run the STATE's businesses?

Politicians? hahahahahaha

Translation: "Rich people"

"Rich white people"

Oh dear no Chavez is not a communist. Most poor countries in the world try to redistribute land to the wretched masses of peasents every now and then, it isn't anything Mexico hasn't been doing for the last 70 years. Communism can't really spring up in third world countries anymore like it did in Cuba without the financial backing of the economic powerhouse of the country which was the USSR. Without a major backer small communist countries would just end up like North Korea--starving, delapitated and isolated.

Translation: "Rich people"

So, if I was elected President by a landslide, you would be happy if I came by your house and told you to get out.

Hey, I'm the legally elected President by a landslide. Give me your new car, too, as you're not being too productive.

he gets to Decide because he was elected President...And it was never as Close as Bush in Florida(and no he dint use a appointed Supreme Court either).

If the elected Prez does not get to decide...Who the Fuck does?
Who gets to decide what people can do with the property they own? The property owners of course.

Most of those examples were state capitalism rather than true communism. In truth, this one will probably end up no better, but regulated capitalism is still capitalism. At least Chavez is risking international condemnation to help the workers, even if he is doing it in a historically ineffective way.
[Insert Laugh Track Here]

As a side note, didn't Chavez oulaw guns or at least severely restrict them?

Who gets to decide what people can do with the property they own? The property owners of course.The Gov gets to tell what you can and What you can NOT do at your Backyard, and If they need your land they will expropiate it,

Its like that in every country.

The Gov gets to tell what you can and What you can NOT do at your Backyard, and If they need your land they will expropiate it,

Its like that in every country.
In the USA they have to pay you for it if they take it. Hugo's just gonna send his goons to run you off.

ultimately, communism was a jolly good gift to the working class...
marx, the witty fellah, had really figured it out...
the only annoying part of his plan was the transition of the current system to communism... that would have to be done, he thought, by noble working-class men (and/or women... obviously not the same person at the same time... unless it were a hermafrodite... but that's slightly off topic), who were doing it for 'the common good' etc etc...
unfortunately these noble dudes picked up the scent of power along the way...
it could have worked out pretty fine...

ultimately, communism was a jolly good gift to the working class...
marx, the witty fellah, had really figured it out...
the only annoying part of his plan was the transition of the current system to communism... that would have to be done, he thought, by noble working-class men (and/or women... obviously not the same person at the same time... unless it were a hermafrodite... but that's slightly off topic), who were doing it for 'the common good' etc etc...
unfortunately these noble dudes picked up the scent of power along the way...
it could have worked out pretty fine...
It does work great, but only among ants.

In the USA they have to pay you for it if they take it..
They pay you whatever they want to pay you...I the Gov need your land, You cannot sell it to the Higest bidder, You are forced to accept the Gov desition...and take whatever they feel is fair to Pay you.

The Gov of Venezuela is going to pay whatever thay feel is fair to pay.

They pay you whatever they want to pay you...You cant refuse
They pay a pretty fair price. Also any ammount is better than nothing. Also they don't take it because it's not "productive" enough. Only for public works projects like roads and such.

They pay a pretty fair price. Also any ammount is better than nothing. Also they don't take it because it's not "productive" enough. Only for public works projects like roads and such.

or foodball fields...
and they don't pay fair prices at all :)
it's the govt, we play this game by their rules...

They pay a pretty fair price. Also any ammount is better than nothing. Also they don't take it because it's not "productive" enough. Only for public works projects like roads and such.


Not that I know any of the details of the situation with the new law in Venezueala but they take private land for public use all the time in America, it says you can do this under the 5th amendment.

Also there is a concept in the law called adverse position which says if someone is not using their land and you move onto it and farm it or do something with it for a number of years it automatically becomes yours and you don't have to pay for it.

Now if Chavez is just arbitrarily stealing land he will probably drive off all foreign investment and tank his economy but the devil is in the details.

Only for public works projects like roads and such.Tha Law says whenever The Gov needs it...It does not say "roads only".

If in the opinion of the Gov...it is in the public interest to take your land...they will.

...and if ReMax offered you more, dont waste your time calling them back.

Not that I know any of the details of the situation with the new law in Venezueala but they take private land for public use all the time in America, it says you can do this under the 5th amendment.

Also there is a concept in the law called adverse position which says if someone is not using their land and you move onto it and farm it or do something with it for a number of years it automatically becomes yours and you don't have to pay for it.

Now if Chavez is just arbitrarily stealing land he will probably drive off all foreign investment and tank his economy but the devil is in the details.
He is driving off foreign investment. In addition to that he's squandered much of the record oil profits his country has earned lately.

He is driving off foreign investment. In addition to that he's squandered much of the record oil profits his country has earned lately.
So he is going to lose next elections...rite? *sarcam*

Wanna bet?

So he is going to lose next elections...rite? *sarcam*

Wanna bet?
Not if the current trend of rich, middle class and educated people leaving the country continues. The remaining uneducated poor are his base.

Uneducated?
FYI most Venezuelan University Students are Pro-Chavez.

Not if the current trend of rich, middle class and educated people leaving the country continues. The remaining uneducated poor are his base.

i'd say his base is anyone who didn't agree with the way things were handled before...
should he screw up bigtime, he'll hardly have any base left, so EXIT hugo...
but if he's lucky, and his policies (less foreign econ activity, and stimulating native entrepreneurship) are successful and improve the econ situation in venezuela, he'd have gotten himself a ticket for the next couple of years...
and eventually the rich who'd now allegedly all leave, screaming murder and fire and so on... they'd be ever so happy to come back to a more stable nation...

Uneducated?
FYI most Venezuelan University Students are Pro-Chavez.
Let's see how they like working in a shop rather than having a job as a lawyer when they graduate. Venezuelan proffesionals, doctors, lawyers, etc. are mainly against Chavez. University students generally don't understand the real world. Most of them have been sheltered from it.

Uneducated?
FYI most Venezuelan University Students are Pro-Chavez.

Most of the money isn't. That's why he needs the authority to seize what's left, before the last of it leaves the country.

Otherwise, he's going to be standing there holding a whole lot of nothing.

If you consider that the US and most foreign investors are essentially isolating Venezuela economically, and that markets like Libya (which makes the world's highest grade crude oil for gas - so called light sweet crude) are now open, one might find less of a market for Venezuelan oil (which is generally of a lower grade).

Make enough trouble in a free market world, and they shut you out. No loans, no investment - sure, you can live on your own.

Just ask Cuba how good they have it now.

Let's see how they like working in a shop rather than having a job as a lawyer when they graduate. Venezuelan proffesionals, doctors, lawyers, etc. are mainly against Chavez. University students generally don't understand the real world. Most of them have been sheltered from it.

perhaps students' visions shouldn't be considered inferior...
being sheltered might be to strong a word, but it's true they haven't got the same obligations as the working class...
taking a look at things from a distance though, sometimes offers a clearer perspective...

Chavez and Castro are good friends, or so I heard. Maybe he sent Chavez a pack of Cuban Cigars for a little more communism.Venezuela is 95 % Christian...
And the Catholic church has been telling the masses that Chavez is a far better Christian than the Oil-Rich Cast that uses to rule the Country...

they say that Helping disaster striken Cuba...is the Christian Thing to do.

I think you're missing the point. If Chavez keeps going on for 20 years the way he's going now, Venezuela will be disaster stricken in the same way Cuba is now.

Chavez and Castro are good friends, or so I heard. Maybe he sent Chavez a pack of Cuban Cigars for a little more communism.Venezuela is 95 % Christian...
And the Catholic church has been telling the masses that Chavez is a far better Christian than the Oil-Rich Cast that uses to rule the Country...

they say that Helping disaster striken Cuba...is the Christian Thing to do.

I think you're missing the point. If Chavez keeps going on for 20 years the way he's going now, Venezuela will be disaster stricken in the same way Cuba is now.


Cuba does have a lower infant mortality rate than the United States.

I think you're missing the point. If Chavez keeps going on for 20 years the way he's going now, Venezuela will be disaster stricken in the same way Cuba is now.
Washington can strangle (trade embargo) Cuba.

I want to see them try that with Caracas.

There is 2 things Washington can do for "regime Change"
#1 Political manipulation..
#2 Install a Bloody Pinochet there.

so far they have failed...

Cuba does have a lower infant mortality rate than the United States.

anything else (besides better cigars)?

perhaps students' visions shouldn't be considered inferior...
being sheltered might be to strong a word, but it's true they haven't got the same obligations as the working class...
taking a look at things from a distance though, sometimes offers a clearer perspective...
Theory is a poor substitute for practice. I'll give you an example. I used to build in-ground swimming pools. The pool kits were designed by engineers. In the field we often had to movify the kits by drilling new holes for bolts, bending steel pannels, etc. Their theoretical book learnin' told them the kits should be perfect straight from the factory. Our practical knowledge of how to build a pool allowed us to actually make them perfect.

Schoolkids don't know how the real world works. They think they know how it should work. Those two are far from the same thing.

anything else (besides better cigars)?
A better disciplined press.

Cuba does have a lower infant mortality rate than .Cuba does have a Better Education and Health-Care than most of America...

But the embargo is killing them, and the latest disaters are murder.

anything else (besides better cigars)?

They have pretty cool music. That Buena vista social club movie kicks ass. Also they have more communists.

A better disciplined press.

If by discipline, you mean shooting or imprisoning people who merely write what they see (and the government doesn't like it), I would agree.

Cuba does have a Better Education and Health-Care than most of America...

But the embargo is killing them, and the latest disaters are murder.

Is it? Castro says it has no effect. Don't you believe Castro?

Astounding. It's so predictable I should start taking bets. Every time I hear a story on NPR, exactly 2 days later there's a post about it on these forums.

... I used to build in-ground swimming pools. The pool kits were designed by engineers. In the field we often had to movify the kits...Then we must conclude that:

If all engineers leave Venezuela...Chavez wil do fine...as long as all the Pool Instalers stay? :rolleyes:

Then we must conclude that:

If all engineers leave Venezuela...Chavez wil do fine...as long as all the Pool Insatalers stay? :rolleyes:
Yes exactly. That was my point.



The real point is that most students know nothing of the real world. This makes their opinions less valuable.

Astounding. It's so predictable I should start taking bets. Every time I hear a story on NPR, exactly 2 days later there's a post about it on these forums.

That's nothing. Every night, I dream I'm listening to a story on NPR. Then, two days later, I hear it on NPR.

Astounding. It's so predictable I should start taking bets. Every time I hear a story on NPR, exactly 2 days later there's a post about it on these forums.
I actually did get the story from NPR. Is that bad?

Castro says it has no effect. Says where (got a Link ?) Don't you believe Castro?
No, I do not beleive all he says.

Yeah, life expectancy was at an all time high then...

higher than anyone else's until the richest countries in the world got around to figuring out the germ theory of disease and sanitation and such, and gave the benefits of those things to their working classes. and it still compares favorably against the worst off under capitalism.

I actually did get the story from NPR. Is that bad?

No no ... not bad at all. NPR and Rueters are the only news sources I consider to be both reliable and relevant. It just struck me as amusing is all. :)

Says where (got a Link ?)
No, I do not beleive all he says.

If you read his speeches, especially the ones just prior to the fall of the Soviet Union, he's just chock full of stuff about how the embargo is of no effect.

After that, however, he changes his tune to it being a morally bad thing, but the embargo still doesn't stop Cuba from doing what it has to do (making pharmaceuticals or steel or stones, depending on the speech).

Go to http://www1.lanic.utexas.edu/la/cb/cuba/castro.html

Yes exactly. That was my point. You know what

I agree that New Engineers/Architects/Doctors/Lawyers...need to be humble and take advise from experimented un-educated subordinates.(there is a few engineers in my Dads Family...and they blew it sometimes)

But we still need the University students...they are the future.

Uneducated?
FYI most Venezuelan University Students are Pro-Chavez.
Probably, but that means nothing, since I've come to realize that most college kids are idiots.

If you read his speeches, especially the ones just prior to the fall of the Soviet Union...]
ok,
I was talking about the Hurricane, they were overrun by the disaster.

A better disciplined press.
Alles in ordnung!

You know what

I agree that New Engineers/Architects/Doctors/Lawyers...need to be humble and take advise from experimented un-educated subordinates.(there is a few engineers in my Dads Family...and they blew it sometimes)

But we still need the University students...they are the future.
Until they are the present their opinions carry less weight.

They pay a pretty fair price. Also any ammount is better than nothing. Also they don't take it because it's not "productive" enough. Only for public works projects like roads and such.

Not correct. Please check out the 60 Minutes story on Eminent Domain:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/60minutes/main575343.shtml

But did you know the government can also seize your land for private use if they can prove that doing it will serve what's called "the public good"?

Cities across the country have been using eminent domain to force people off their land, so private developers can build more expensive homes and offices that will pay more in property taxes than the buildings they're replacing.

US federal, state, and municipal governments can take (and have taken) private land away from person A and sell it to person B.

Not correct. Please check out the 60 Minutes story on Eminent Domain:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/60minutes/main575343.shtml



US federal, state, and municipal governments can take (and have taken) private land away from person A and sell it to person B.
That's just as screwed up. Both Hugo Chavez and the US politicians doing this crap need to be vivisected.

That's just as screwed up. Both Hugo Chavez and the US politicians doing this crap need to be vivisected.

Well, I cringe at the vivisection image. All I wanted to do was point out that what Chavez is doing isn't much different from what most other governments do. The US media has done an excellent job of trying to make Hugo Chavez look bad. Remember, just a year ago the US was trying to force the Venezuelans to oust Chavez.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/01/16/venezuela.chavez.ap/

Outside pressure eventually forced a new presidential vote in 2004. Chavez won by a landslide. The Carter Center participated in overseeing and auditing the vote and determined that result of the new election was accurate.

http://www.cartercenter.org/doc1690.htm

But for some reason the US doesn't like Hugo Chavez (I honestly don't know why he's considered worse than his neighbours), and the US media frequently poses him in a negative (communist) light. Some people say its because of Venezuela's big oil reserves, but I don't think there's enough information to say that.

Anyway, this whole 'Chavez is evil because he's misusing eminent domain' thing is just ludicrous, given that pretty much every other government in the world does exactly the same thing, to a greater or lesser extent.

The question is: Why is the US media demonizing Chavez?

Well, I cringe at the vivisection image. All I wanted to do was point out that what Chavez is doing isn't much different from what most other governments do. The US media has done an excellent job of trying to make Hugo Chavez look bad. Remember, just a year ago the US was trying to force the Venezuelans to oust Chavez.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/01/16/venezuela.chavez.ap/

Outside pressure eventually forced a new presidential vote in 2004. Chavez won by a landslide. The Carter Center participated in overseeing and auditing the vote and determined that result of the new election was accurate.

http://www.cartercenter.org/doc1690.htm


But for some reason the US doesn't like Hugo Chavez (I honestly don't know why he's considered worse than his neighbours), and the US media frequently poses him in a negative (communist) light. Some people say its because of Venezuela's big oil reserves, but I don't think there's enough information to say that.

Anyway, this whole 'Chavez is evil because he's misusing eminent domain' thing is just ludicrous, given that pretty much every other government in the world does exactly the same thing, to a greater or lesser extent.

The question is: Why is the US media demonizing Chavez?
I'm not basing all of my criticism of Chavez on the media. My oldest friend is marrying a Venezuelan girl. She and her family hate Chavez. So do all of her friends. It's not a representative sample, but they live or have lived there. They've seen the Chavez regime up close.

..The US media has done an excellent job of trying to make Hugo Chavez look bad. Remember, just a year ago the US was trying to force the Venezuelans to oust Chavez. IMO the Bush Admin wants "regime change" is Iraq, Iran and Venezuela (and they rather avoid taliking about NK)
one down 2 to go.

Its just two bad that Iran and Venezuela are the only 2 true Democracies of the OPEC.

I'm not basing all of my criticism of Chavez on the media. My oldest friend is marrying a Venezuelan girl. She and her family hate Chavez. So do all of her friends. It's not a representative sample, but they live or have lived there. They've seen the Chavez regime up close.

Fair enough - but please, do check out the link to the Carter Center article.

http://www.cartercenter.org/doc1690.htm

It discusses the divisions of opinion regarding the Chavez government thoroughly, and I think, objectively.

Also bear in mind, Chavez won his recall referendum with 59% of the popular vote. Yes, there are people who hate Chavez, just as there are people who hate President Bush, and they may have legitimate reasons, but the people who hate Chavez in Venezuela seem to be more of a minority than the people who hate Bush are in the US.

Venezuela recognizes there are deep political divisions in the country. That's one reason they asked the Carter Center to help them bring the two sides together. That's why they have presidential recall legislation.

I'm not basing all of my criticism of Bush on the media. My oldest friend is marrying an American girl. She and her family hate Bush. So do all of her friends. It's not a representative sample, but they live or have lived there. They've seen the Bush regime up close.

I'm not basing all of my criticism of Bush on the media. My oldest friend is marrying an American girl. She and her family hate Bush. So do all of her friends. It's not a representative sample, but they live or have lived there. They've seen the Bush regime up close.

Oh look! An excellent example of what I was talking about in my post above.

(Yes, I recognize it as satire.)

IMO the Bush Admin wants "regime change" is Iraq, Iran and Venezuela (and they rather avoid taliking about NK)
one down 2 to go.

Its just two bad that Iran and Venezuela are the only 2 true Democracies of the OPEC.
You're right - ever member of The Supreme National Security Council gets a vote.

I heard on the radio that Hugo Chavez has taken it upon himself to decide if a piece of private property isn't productive enough. If he determines it isn't it will be siezed and handed over to farming cooperatives. So much for private property rights in Venezuela. No wonder the rich and middle class are moving to the USA, Australia and Europe. As a bonus they're taking their money with them. Venezuela is screwed.
OH NO! now the people actually having to work will have land to work and live on and the state will be producing food instead of having huge tracts of land belonging to a few really rich people who jsut sit on it shooting trespassers! KILL HIS ASS!


twits

You're right - ever member of The Supreme National Security Council gets a vote.

Hello? The election was scrutinized by the The Carter Center. They determined that the election was fair and the results were accurate. You don't have to like Chavez or Venezuela, but you can at least keep the nasty innuendos out of play.

Hello? The election was scrutinized by the The Carter Center. They determined that the election was fair and the results were accurate. You don't have to like Chavez or Venezuela, but you can at least keep the nasty innuendos out of play.
Search the council and see which of the two countries it's from : Iran or Venezeula.

Sorry. My mistake for jumping to conclusions. As the thread was about Venezuela, I thought you meant Venezuela.

My bad.

Search the council and see which of the two countries it's from : Iran or Venezeula.
this is from Google:
http://www.google.ca/search?num=20&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=Iran+%22Supreme+National+Security+Council%22+&btnG=Search&meta=

this is from: globalsecurity.org/military
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/sdc.htm

it says:

the responsibilities of the SNSC are as follows:
* 1. To determine the national defense/security policies within the framework of general policies laid down by the Leader.
* 2. To coordinate political, intelligence, social, cultural and economic activities in relation to general defense/security policies.
* 3. To exploit material and non-material resources of the country for facing internal and external threats.

Thats it, nothing about the SNSC elect the prez...so i wonder, did you do the search?
So why not post the link?

Hugo Chavez kept Democracy in Venezuela alive by surviving a multitude of coup attempts sponsored by Bush

In 2000 Bush was "elected" by the appointed members of the Supreme Court. a grant total of 9 people.

what is your point?

If you are suggesting that the Iran President was not elected by the People of Iran....If that is what you want to debate, I suggest you start another thread, because you will really need the space.
My point is that Iran isn't a true democracy. Note that I didn't say that the Iranian President wasn't elected by the people. Simply having someone who is elected does not make a country a democracy, especially with Supreme Leaders and Guardian Councils involved.

My point is that Iran isn't a true democracy. Note that I didn't say that the Iranian President wasn't elected by the people. Simply having someone who is elected does not make a country a democracy, especially with Supreme Leaders and Guardian Councils involved.
Bush allowed the hardliners to "win" in Iran when he alienated himself from the pro-democracy activists there

this is from Google:
http://www.google.ca/search?num=20&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=Iran+%22Supreme+National+Security+Council%22+&btnG=Search&meta=

this is from: globalsecurity.org/military
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/sdc.htm

it says:

the responsibilities of the SNSC are as follows:
* 1. To determine the national defense/security policies within the framework of general policies laid down by the Leader.
* 2. To coordinate political, intelligence, social, cultural and economic activities in relation to general defense/security policies.
* 3. To exploit material and non-material resources of the country for facing internal and external threats.

Thats it, nothing about the SNSC elect the prez...so i wonder, did you do the search?
So why not post the link?
I made a mistake, I meant the Council of Guardians.

OH NO! now the people actually having to work will have land to work and live on and the state will be producing food instead of having huge tracts of land belonging to a few really rich people who jsut sit on it shooting trespassers! KILL HIS ASS!


twits
Ok, let's just take your home and use it as a homeless shelter. You can stay there too if you can prove you're homeless.