NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you think that america has the right to bear arms and to also go into other countries and start a war

Do you think that america has the right to bear arms and to also go into other countries and start a war

That's two different topics.

"The best defense is a good offense" has been the defense policy of more nations than the US. Well, more of an excuse than a policy.

Well, more of a bad idea than an excuse...

As for the right to bear arms, I'm keeping mine since I was born with them, and Vittos says I should enjoy sleeves as well.

This thread is already giving me a migraine.

That's two different topics.

"The best defense is a good offense" has been the defense policy of more nations than the US. Well, more of an excuse than a policy.

Well, more of a bad idea than an excuse...

As for the right to bear arms, I'm keeping mine since I was born with them, and Vittos says I should enjoy sleeves as well.
fixed

This thread is already giving me a migraine.
fixed

i know that it is to diff topics. america is the top for people being killed by guns.

This thread is already giving me a migraine.

Yeah, there's just something about PEOPLE WHO CONSTANTLY TYPE IN BOLD which induces headaches.

That's two different topics.

"The best defense is a good offense" has been the defense policy of more nations than the US. Well, more of an excuse than a policy.

Well, more of a bad idea than an excuse...

As for the right to bear arms, I'm keeping mine since I was born with them, and Vittos says I should enjoy sleeves as well.

Yes, no one should have the right to bare arms.

WEAR SLEEVES, VESTS MAKE BABY JESUS CRY!

Edit: I didn't get what BS was fixing at first

i know that it is to diff topics. america is the top for people being killed by guns.
Really? What about those sountries in Africa.

Really? What about those sountries in Africa.
they have alot but america is still number one.

they have alot but america is still number one.
That must be why some americans sing "we're number one!" at sports events.

Lol

Really? What about those sountries in Africa.

Yeah, I was going to point that out to him. I've looked up the statistics and America does not have the highest murder rate per capita. It's 5th. I'm not sure how it ranks with the number of murders per year, though.

It's not the highest, but it's nothing to be proud of either, considering the countries higher than America in the rankings are pretty wartorn.

they have alot but america is still number one.

Prove it. Show me the link.

Then go read this one.

http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/Yearbook%202004/2004%20press%20kit-chap.06.pdf

The US is not number one.

for one thing i am not a guy. and i didnt say murder in plain murder by guns. i learnt this in my goverment class. and also watch bowling for columbine and also get a link that will acutaly open to prove your point.

Woops, America ranked 8th actually. I knew this would come in handy:

Firearm murder figures
1. South Africa 0.74 per 1000 people
2. Colombia 0.52 per 1000 people
3. Thailand 0.31 per 1000 people
4. Zimbabwe 0.04 per 1000 people
5. Mexico 0.03 per 1000 people
6. Costa Rica 0.03 per 1000 people
7. Belarus 0.03 per 1000 people
8. United States 0.02 per 1000 people
9. Uruguay 0.02 per 1000 people
10. Lithuania 0.02 per 1000 people
11. Slovakia 0.02 per 1000 people
12. Czech Republic 0.02 per 1000 people
13. Estonia 0.01 per 1000 people
14. Latvia 0.01 per 1000 people
15. Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of 0.01 per 1000 people
16. Bulgaria 0.00 per 1000 people
17. Portugal 0.00 per 1000 people
18. Slovenia 0.00 per 1000 people
19. Switzerland 0.00 per 1000 people
20. Canada 0.00 per 1000 people
21. Germany 0.00 per 1000 people
22. Moldova 0.00 per 1000 people
23. Hungary 0.00 per 1000 people
24. Poland 0.00 per 1000 people

By the way, America ranks even lower for all murders (these statistics are only based on firearm murders).

they have alot but america is still number one.
Are you talking about as a percentage or a total?

U.S. A.
U.S. A.
U.S. A.

for one thing i am not a guy. and i didnt say murder in plain murder by guns. i learnt this in my goverment class. and also watch bowling for columbine

There are far too many omissions and fabrications in Bowling for Columbine.

It's not a documentary - it's a hack job. Would you like for me to start?

for one thing i am not a guy. and i didnt say murder in plain murder by guns. i learnt this in my goverment class. and also watch bowling for columbine

That was excellent. "Don't you think it's a bit dangerous handing guns out at a bank?" :D

for one thing i am not a guy. and i didnt say murder in plain murder by guns. i learnt this in my goverment class. and also watch bowling for columbine
Did you learn skepticism in either of those two things?

That was excellent. "Don't you think it's a bit dangerous handing guns out at a bank?" :D

Counterintuitively for a liberal, he wants to argue that gun control is not a significant factor in America's high rate of gun deaths compared to other countries, and to do so, he travels to Canada, which he claims is similar to the U.S. in every way except its attitude towards self-reliance. He dismisses typical liberal concerns about poverty creating crime, noting that, "Liberals contend [gun violence is a result of] all the poverty we have here. But the unemployment rate in Canada is twice what we have here." By every measure of international comparison, though, Canada's poverty rate is significantly lower than that of the U.S., thanks to the generous social insurance programs that he repeatedly praises in the film.

Much more mendaciously, Moore has apparently altered footage of an ad run by the Bush/Quayle campaign in 1988 to implicate Bush in the Willie Horton scandal. Making a point about the use of racial symbols to scare the American public, he shows the Bush/Quayle ad called "Revolving Doors," which attacked Michael Dukakis for a Massachusetts prison furlough program by showing prisoners entering and exiting a prison. Superimposed over the footage of the prisoners is the text "Willie Horton released. Then kills again." This caption is displayed as if it is part of the original ad. However, existing footage, media reports and the recollections of several high-level people involved in the campaign indicate that the "Revolving Doors" ad did not explicitly mention Horton, unlike the notorious ad run by the National Security Political Action Committee (which had close ties to Bush media advisor Roger Ailes). In addition, the caption is incorrect -- Horton did not kill anyone while on prison furlough (he raped a woman).

Although he uses statistics much less frequently in "Bowling for Columbine" than in Stupid White Men, Moore still manages to present at least one figure inaccurately. During a stylized overview of US foreign policy, he claims that the U.S. gave $245 million in aid to the Taliban rulers of Afghanistan in 2000 and 2001. The Taliban aid tale is a favorite of Moore's that he has repeated in numerous media appearances over the past year. Contrary to his claim, the aid did not go to the Taliban -- it actually consisted of food and food security programs administered by the United Nations and non-governmental organizations to relieve an impending famine.

Beyond the satire and the fabrications, just what is Moore's argument? It's often hard to tell. At times, while dismissing the influence of pop culture, he blames the government's militarism, suggesting that it's somehow relevant that the day of the Columbine High School shootings was also the day of one of the heaviest U.S.-led NATO bombings in Yugoslavia. (Moore is an ardent opponent of U.S. military intervention - soon after the war on terrorism began, he called the President and Vice President "Bin Bush" and "Bin Cheney" and said on the radio program "Democracy Now", "We're the national sniper when it comes to going after countries like Iraq.") Even setting aside this questionable chain of causality, Moore contradicts his own thesis that foreign bombing leads to domestic gun violence when he approvingly notes that the United Kingdom, which played a leading role in bombing Yugoslavia with the U.S., had only 68 gun homicides the same year America had 11,127.

Contradicting himself doesn't seem to be a problem for Moore, though. In the movie and subsequent media appearances, he has derided America's lack of a social safety net, comparing us unfavorably to Canada, even though he states explicitly in the film that the two countries don't differ significantly in terms of poverty.

Moore also claims several times that our higher gun homicide rate must be the result of American culture rather than the greater number of guns in our country, citing the fact that Canada has a much lower gun homicide rate despite having seven million guns in its ten million homes (Moore ignores the fact that Canada has significantly fewer handguns and a much stricter gun licensing system). Yet that doesn't stop him from repeatedly bashing the anti-gun control NRA and even making a visit to the home of its president, Charlton Heston, the climax of the movie. In an e-mail to supporters , Moore even referred to Heston as a "gun supremacist." And in an interview on Phil Donahue's MSNBC show recently, Moore said he supports banning all handguns just minutes before stating, "I don't think, ultimately, getting rid of the guns will be the answer."

Repeatedly, though, he returns to the issue of fear in the movie, claiming that excessive coverage of gun violence by the media makes Americans scared of each other and therefore more violent. This circular argument doesn't make any sense either. On the one hand, Moore has made an entire film purporting to investigate why the U.S. has the highest rate of gun violence in the developed world. He then attempts to answer the question by theorizing that the media provides too much coverage of gun violence, causing citizens to fear each other. If gun violence is really so bad, though, shouldn't the media be covering it and don't citizens have something to be afraid of? And if the media is indeed over-covering the issue and America is safer than we think, why did Moore make this film?

Ironically, Moore interviews and cites the work of USC Professor Barry Glassner, whose book The Culture of Fear attacks the media for sensationalizing incidents of bad news while ignoring the bigger picture. One of the book's primary examples is extensive media coverage of school shootings that ignores the overall downward trend in youth violence in recent years. Indeed, Glassner points out that people are three times more likely to be struck dead by lightning than die in a school shooting. Moore, however, focuses extensively in the film on the Columbine massacre and a school shooting in his hometown of Flint, Michigan, and doesn't seem all that concerned with the country's epidemic of lightning strikes.

Here, as ever, Michael Moore just doesn't seem to know what he thinks. When pressed, in fact, he isn't even sure he actually has a point. Appearing on CNN's Moneyline last spring, host Lou Dobbs asked him about the inaccuracies in Stupid White Men. "How can there be inaccuracy in comedy?" Moore responded.

my goverment teacher also looked up what they had i think she said that it was murders from guns overall not percentage

my goverment teacher also looked up what they had i think she said that it was murders from guns overall not percentage
The US is a large country in terms of population you know?

Tell her she's being intellectually dishonest for present statistics like.

my goverment teacher also looked up what they had i think she said that it was murders from guns overall not percentage

Even from gun murders overall, it's still not true. Maybe she should get some statistics from South America.

yea right and fail i dont think so i need that class to graduate.

Here, as ever, Michael Moore just doesn't seem to know what he thinks. When pressed, in fact, he isn't even sure he actually has a point. Appearing on CNN's Moneyline last spring, host Lou Dobbs asked him about the inaccuracies in Stupid White Men. "How can there be inaccuracy in comedy?" Moore responded.

When I read about that when it happened, he lost a little* of my respect.



*or what was left of it.

yea right and fail i dont think so i need that class to graduate.
If this is the way education works America, I seriously fear for the future of the country.

what do you mean

oh and i hope you dont think i support america. i dont i hate what we do, i guess you could sya that i am an anarchist because i dont even stand up for the pledge to flag crap or anything in fact i have burned a flag before.

oh and i hope you dont think i support america. i dont i hate what we do, i guess you could sya that i am an anarchist because i dont even stand up for the pledge to flag crap or anything in fact i have burned a flag before.

This is what happens when a great deal of intelligence is invested in ignorance.

i have no idea what you mean i am not a true anarchist. i just hate america. that is all.

what do you mean
oh and i hope you dont think i support america. i dont i hate what we do, i guess you could sya that i am an anarchist because i dont even stand up for the pledge to flag crap or anything in fact i have burned a flag before

Whether you support America is inconcequencial [sp].

I was commenting on the fact that you said you couldn't question you teacher about her statistics for fear of failing the class. That is what I find worrying. Cock-and-bull to make you follow an agenda is never a good thing, regardless from what quarter it comes from.

And burning the flag doesn't make you an Anarchist, just someone with some cheap cloth from Walmart and a lighter.

i have no idea what you mean i am not a true anarchist. i just hate america. that is all.

It is impossible to rationally hate America, it is just some land with artificial borders put on it. You can hate the government, the current admistration, but not the country.

lol well it depends on what teacher some are cool and you can talk to them but this one isnt

And burning the flag doesn't make you an Anarchist, just someone with some cheap cloth from Walmart and a lighter.

Just wonder if anyone else down at the G8 meeting on St Simons Island noticed this. As we went into the Wal-Mart in Brunswick to pick-up some folding chairs (convienently on sale ) we found right up front a very large box of poster board, the perfect size for protest signs, sitting there on sale. Right next to that on the shelves were a large assortment of paint and markers, okay I'm cool with that. What really pissed me off to no end though was the pallet of lighter fluid and the large display of lighters right behind the poster board and markers, along with flags of the nations of the G8. All this was right up front in both entrances, and on sale . This kinda pissed me and my teammate off and got the WalMart greeters a good WTF over? The manager of course couldn't be found. I'm not sure if lighter fluid and lighters may have been a coincidence, but it just doesn't sit right with me.
This stuff stayed there for a good two or three days according to some of the other guys that went there to pick-up stuff. It still pisses me off that Wal-Mart would try and turn a quick profit like that and jeoprodize the safety of all of us working out there.

lol well it depends on what teacher some are cool and you can talk to them but this one isnt

You really should begin observing the rules of grammar. It would make your posts much easier to understand.

for one thing i am not a guy. and i didnt say murder in plain murder by guns. i learnt this in my goverment class. and also watch bowling for columbine and also get a link that will acutaly open to prove your point.
Wow! "Bowling for Columbine" sure sets the standard of truth in media for me. Of course, I get my news from Jon Stewart's "Daily Show" too.[/sarcasm]

grammer what is that? :)

Punctuation, spelling, and grammar are no longer taught. In my daughter's school, they are encouraged to write. When I noticed that they don't give any marks for punctuation, spelling, or grammar usage, I was told that they don't want to discourage the child from "writing".

Ah, I see. While we're at it, let's abandon critical thought, and teach on the basis of personal whim.

It still pisses me off that Wal-Mart would try and turn a quick profit like that and jeoprodize the safety of all of us working out there.

Hardly surprising though is it. Although it makes you think, someone in the Middle East must be making a killing by selling flags to extremists.

Personally I'm ok with flag burning, provided you bought the flag and you don't risk setting someone other than yourself alight (if you set your self alight, good, teach you for being a moron.)

what grade is your daughter in?

grammer what is that? :)

The question mark is a good start. ;)

grammer what is that? :)
Grammer doesn't exist. It is grammar it goes well alongside spelling (I have to admit, that is one of my failings).

i havent been properly taught grammer. i kinda use it at will. it is sad i am 17 years old too.

Wow! "Bowling for Columbine" sure sets the standard of truth in media for me. Of course, I get my news from Jon Stewart's "Daily Show" too.[/sarcasm]

If you are taking a shot at the "Daily Show", you obviously have missed the studies that it's viewers are far more informed than the viewers of any other cable "news" program.

lol

Punctuation, spelling, and grammar are no longer taught. In my daughter's school, they are encouraged to write. When I noticed that they don't give any marks for punctuation, spelling, or grammar usage,

Yet more reasons why I am happy that if I have children they won't be schooled in America.

And if I do emmigrate, home schooling looks better and better.

I was told that they don't want to discourage the child from "writing".

Wow. I wish I went to that school. I'd get full marks in everything.

I mean, they wouldn't want to discourage me from learning, so I wouldn't be marked down for factual errors.

What are they marked down on then.

Ah, I see. While we're at it, let's abandon critical thought, and teach on the basis of personal whim.
:)

what grade is your daughter in?

Sixth. She receives quite a bit of extra instruction at home, in order to counter the stultifying effects of public school.

If you get the chance, go to the library and check out a book called, "Lies My Teacher Told Me".

What state do you live in? I live in oregon and i went to school at chiloquin and now klamath falls and the school system was way diff.

If you get the chance, go to the library and check out a book called, "Lies My Teacher Told Me".

Oooh, its being sold on Amazon.co.uk.

And I have money at the moment, thanks JB :)

What state do you live in? I live in oregon and i went to school at chiloquin and now klamath falls and the school system was way diff.

Virginia. Well, if it was so different, how did you manage to avoid learning how to spell correctly? Or is that a modern affectation?

i have no idea what you mean i am not a true anarchist. i just hate america. that is all.
When I started posting on this forum, I realized that a lot of the members lacked the same sorts of experience in life that I have had. Mostly, because they are too young. Because of that, I really try hard not to refer to this inexperience in posts.
[a lot of editing in here]
I even worked for McGovern's campaign when I was younger. I grew out of it. The bleeding heart stuff, I mean. Now I work for Libertarian candidates. And the Fair Tax.

Oooh, its being sold on Amazon.co.uk.

And I have money at the moment, thanks JB :)

I especially like the part about Thanksgiving. Apparently, we're lucky that we celebrate the success of the Pilgrims, and not Jamestown.

In Jamestown, they didn't eat turkey. They ate each other. But, that's rarely mentioned in school.

If you are taking a shot at the "Daily Show", you obviously have missed the studies that it's viewers are far more informed than the viewers of any other cable "news" program.
But I'll bet the viewers get their real news from somewhere else. Don't misunderstand, it's great comedy. But not news.

Virginia. Well, if it was so different, how did you manage to avoid learning how to spell correctly? Or is that a modern affectation? i have trouble spelling when i changed schools it was in the ninth grade so i had already learned what they taought and no one corrected me. i used to be alot worse,

I especially like the part about Thanksgiving. Apparently, we're lucky that we celebrate the success of the Pilgrims, and not Jamestown.

In Jamestown, they didn't eat turkey. They ate each other. But, that's rarely mentioned in school.
i learnt that in my history class in my juniour year. he was great we learned alot of things we wouldntve normally

well i hae to go class is over l8er

But I'll bet the viewers get their real news from somewhere else. Don't misunderstand, it's great comedy. But not news.

That is a good point, and one that crossed my mind.

The thing with the Daily Show is that they can take all stories and make them interesting, where as regular news generally must stick to sensationalist news to keep it entertaining. That means you get a much wider and open selection of the news.

Punctuation, spelling, and grammar are no longer taught. In my daughter's school, they are encouraged to write. When I noticed that they don't give any marks for punctuation, spelling, or grammar usage, I was told that they don't want to discourage the child from "writing".

Ah, I see. While we're at it, let's abandon critical thought, and teach on the basis of personal whim.
You obviously haven't been to a high school english 3 honors class lately, otherwise you would know that already happens.

That is a good point, and one that crossed my mind.

The thing with the Daily Show is that they can take all stories and make them interesting, where as regular news generally must stick to sensationalist news to keep it entertaining. That means you get a much wider and open selection of the news.
You're right about that. The entertaining stuff sticks with you a lot longer. None of the TV stuff gets into details, anyway. My favorite 40 minutes of news is still Britt Hume on Fox. Before he gets the panel together for the analysis.

You're right about that. The entertaining stuff sticks with you a lot longer. None of the TV stuff gets into details, anyway. My favorite 40 minutes of news is still Britt Hume on Fox. Before he gets the panel together for the analysis.

I don't even bother with televised news. I get it from the internet. I do watch C-Span every once in a while, when they have a guest talking about an interesting subject.

wow people have written alot