NationStates Jolt Archive

Call me a bleeding heart Lib if you want, but this is just wrong! This is from www.news.com.au yesterday:



Baby rammed in road rage attack
January 12, 2005

A PERTH couple who watched a car ram their 14-month-old daughter's pram at high speed following a road rage incident said today it was the most horrifying experience any parent can go through.

Little Olivia Rose was being pushed along a footpath in the southern Perth suburb of Lynwood by father Ollie on Monday night, when a white Holden Commodore sped past, prompting him to remonstrate with the driver.

At that, the car stopped, spun around and sped towards Ollie and his daughter, slamming into them both at an estimated 55km/h.

The pram was catapulted 10m across the road, with the Olivia Rose landing a further 5m away - but she somehow escaped with just grazes to her head and face.

Ollie, who does not want his surname published, said a minor altercation about the driver's speed escalated out of control.

"He screeched to a halt and reversed back, pulled me over to the car and tried to punch me, so I pushed his hand back in through the window," Ollie told 6PR radio.

"With that he panicked and put his foot on the gas, he whipped the car round and lined me and Livvy up on the footpath.

"He hit the pram side on. I was holding onto the pram but it ripped it out of my hands, and ended about 10m into someone's property - Livvy ended up 5m to the east.

"Thankfully she was asleep when the impact occurred, but when I found her she was absolutely amazed at what had happened ... had she been awake I think it could have been a whole different story."

Detectives in Cannington are searching for the driver, who is described as around 22 years old, of European appearance with blond hair and goatee beard.

Olivia Rose's mother Tiffiny, who witnessed the incident, said it could have turned into a tragedy.

"It was just the most horrifying experience that any parent can have, that a car has ploughed into your baby - it's just horrific," Tiffiny said.

"This could have been a hell of a lot worse, we are counting our lucky stars that someone is looking down on us and Livvy has come out of it relatively unharmed."

AAP



Source:http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11919841%255E26462,00.html

[Moderator Edit - Cogitation] "Some people need retro-active abortion!" is questionable as a thread title, in my official opinion. [/modedit]

Call me a bleeding heart Lib if you want, but this is just wrong! This is from www.news.com.au yesterday:



Source:http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11919841%255E26462,00.html

Hee, I love when people accuse others of being 'wrong' while simultaneously calling for that person's death. I certainly won't be calling you a 'bleeding heart Lib', since I feel no need to slander myself.

Also, the guy was a moron for initiating the interaction. In this day and age, you just don't piss off people when they're driving. Especially if they're acting slightly reckless. It's tantamount to prodding someone who's holding a gun and acting reckless, and then acting shocked when they shoot you.

What the guy should have done was take a number plate and report it, if he *really* felt it was an issue. If it wasn't an issue worthy of that, it wasn't worth him acting like a jerk at all.

Hee, I love when people accuse others of being 'wrong' while simultaneously calling for that person's death. I certainly won't be calling you a 'bleeding heart Lib', since I feel no need to slander myself.

Also, the guy was a moron for initiating the interaction. In this day and age, you just don't piss off people when they're driving. Especially if they're acting slightly reckless. It's tantamount to prodding someone who's holding a gun and acting reckless, and then acting shocked when they shoot you.

What the guy should have done was take a number plate and report it, if he *really* felt it was an issue. If it wasn't an issue worthy of that, it wasn't worth him acting like a jerk at all.

I wasn't seriously calling for his death you know. While the father was foolish not to take down the number plate running over a pram is unexcusable, no matter what words were exchanged. Either way I doubt the baby provoked the driver in any way.

I wasn't seriously calling for his death you know.

On second thought, perhaps I should have...

I wasn't seriously calling for his death you know. While the father was foolish not to take down the number plate running over a pram is unexcusable, no matter what words were exchanged. Either way I doubt the baby provoked the driver in any way.

Hear! Hear! This is just unacceptable behaviour on the part of the driver. He should be imprisoned and have his licence permanently removed.

I wasn't seriously calling for his death you know. While the father was foolish not to take down the number plate running over a pram is unexcusable, no matter what words were exchanged. Either way I doubt the baby provoked the driver in any way.

*shrugs* It still hurt your point... it came across as 'omg this guy did something shocking! he deserves to die!'

And, while the child did nothing, the father did. I'm sorry, but everyone knows about road rage nowadays, and I have no sympathy for people too stupid to avoid confrontation. A car is essentially a mobile weapon. You can bet that father wouldn't have 'remonstrated' with someone carrying a gun, he shouldn't have 'remonstrated' with an obviously aggitated driver.

Mind you, I'm not saying the driver shouldn't be punished. Because... you know, the whole running over a pram thing *is* fairly unexcusable, I agree. I just have no sympathy for the father, since it was essentially at least half his own damn fault. It's amazing the baby got out of that without a more serious injury. Hopefully it'll teach the father not to provoke drivers while he's with his daughter.

On second thought, perhaps I should have...

That's right! Go for the moral high ground!

:rolleyes:

*shrugs* It still hurt your point... it came across as 'omg this guy did something shocking! he deserves to die!'

And, while the child did nothing, the father did. I'm sorry, but everyone knows about road rage nowadays, and I have no sympathy for people too stupid to avoid confrontation. A car is essentially a mobile weapon. You can bet that father wouldn't have 'remonstrated' with someone carrying a gun, he shouldn't have 'remonstrated' with an obviously aggitated driver.

Mind you, I'm not saying the driver shouldn't be punished. Because... you know, the whole running over a pram thing *is* fairly unexcusable, I agree. I just have no sympathy for the father, since it was essentially at least half his own damn fault. It's amazing the baby got out of that without a more serious injury. Hopefully it'll teach the father not to provoke drivers while he's with his daughter.

You seem to shrug a lot. Is this some kind of uncontrollable habit? :p

Call me a bleeding heart Lib if you want, but this is just wrong! This is from www.news.com.au yesterday:



Source:http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11919841%255E26462,00.html

Not to defend the driver in any respect, but perhaps this Ollie fellow should avoid getting into fights with random strangers with his 14 month old daughter present and in harm's way.

You seem to shrug a lot. Is this some kind of uncontrollable habit? :p

*shr---- um, no. Not uncontrollable. Me over-compensating for the lack of body-language aides online, I think. I'm half Italian... body language is practically a second language to me, and it's damn tricky communicating without it.

Not to defend the driver in any respect, but perhaps this Ollie fellow should avoid getting into fights with random strangers with his 14 month old daughter present and in harm's way.

Thank you

Maybe they'll understand it when you say it :p

a white Holden Commodore sped past
...
Detectives in Cannington are searching for the driver, who is described as around 22 years old, of European appearance with blond hair and goatee beard.
Now can you get any more stereotypically Aussie Bogan?

For starters the driver shouldnt be driving a holden, yet what person trys to start a fight infront of their Children? the driver should lose his licence the father should lose his child

Now can you get any more stereotypically Aussie Bogan?
beat me to it :D

For starters the driver shouldnt be driving a holden, yet what person trys to start a fight infront of their siblings? the driver should lose his licence the father should lose his child

siblings = brothers/sisters

I think you mean offspring, or possibly spawn. Depending on whether you're as harsh as me or not

siblings = brothers/sisters

I think you mean offspring, or possibly spawn. Depending on whether you're as harsh as me or not
good point, my insanity is starting to effect my perfection :)

good point, my insanity is starting to effect my perfection

Heh, I know how you feel.

Except that I'm insane whether I'm tired or not... and am not perfect at any point... and... hrm.

Let me amend that to 'I sort of know how you feel, minus the insanity and the perfection'.

Heh, I know how you feel.

Except that I'm insane whether I'm tired or not... and am not perfect at any point... and... hrm.

Let me amend that to 'I sort of know how you feel, minus the insanity and the perfection'.
to be here on NS as long as we have you have to be partially insane

*shr---- um, no. Not uncontrollable. Me over-compensating for the lack of body-language aides online, I think. I'm half Italian... body language is practically a second language to me, and it's damn tricky communicating without it.

I see, fair enough. :p

btw, who voted for NO punishment... C'mon, show yourself ;)

I'm highly amused at all the people voting for 'something painful'

Well done, you've just endorsed non-information-gathering-related torture, sponsored by your state/federal government!

Have a cookie. You've truly shown yourselves to be above the bastard who ran over a child by promoting the idea that he should be physically or psychologically injured.

It sucks that there's no 'remove his license and force him into road-rage-avoidence lessons, and force the father to go to the same thing, and don't let either of them anywhere near a car until they show signs of being able to deal with stress in a less moronic fashion'. Neither jail time nor a monetary fine would be sufficient, and neither would treat the cause of the problem, just treat the symptoms.

to be here on NS as long as we have you have to be partially insane

Hee, I'm being counted in the ranks of 'We Who Have Been on NS a Long Time' now? I'm just an ickle 2004-er.

I'm highly amused at all the people voting for 'something painful'

Well done, you've just endorsed non-information-gathering-related torture, sponsored by your state/federal government!

Have a cookie. You've truly shown yourselves to be above the bastard who ran over a child by promoting the idea that he should be physically or psychologically injured.

It sucks that there's no 'remove his license and force him into road-rage-avoidence lessons, and force the father to go to the same thing, and don't let either of them anywhere near a car until they show signs of being able to deal with stress in a less moronic fashion'. Neither jail time nor a monetary fine would be sufficient, and neither would treat the cause of the problem, just treat the symptoms.
Nationstates is no place for a well thought out and logically sound argument, begone with you :)

I see, fair enough. :p

btw, who voted for NO punishment... C'mon, show yourself ;)

Dirk Dingus. You know, if you click the poll numbers, you can see who voted for what.

Hee, I'm being counted in the ranks of 'We Who Have Been on NS a Long Time' now? I'm just an ickle 2004-er.
being here over 3 months or 100 posts is too long :)

Nationstates is no place for a well thought out and logically sound argument, begone with you :)

There's nowhere on the internet for me to go :(

Might as well stay here, where at least people can spell, even if they can't be coherent :p

being here over 3 months or 100 posts is too long :)

So I've been here (too long)x20?

So I've been here (too long)x20?

I've been here for eons by that measure.

There's nowhere on the internet for me to go :(

Might as well stay here, where at least people can spell, even if they can't be coherent :p
joo wana goe ware?

Now can you get any more stereotypically Aussie Bogan?

Maybe if he was driving at ute! It doesn't say anything about how much it was hotted up though.

Dirk Dingus. You know, if you click the poll numbers, you can see who voted for what.

Ahhh... I didn't realise that, thanks.

DIRK, come and explain yourself.

joo wana goe ware?

Don't make me slap you.

And it's 'j00'. If you *must* 1337, at least do it properly :rolleyes: :p

Don't make me slap you.

but it would be the most action ive had in weeks :)

Regardless of what the father should or shouldn't have done, it in no way excuses what the driver did. He should be charged with attempted murder & have his licence taken away from him.

Regardless of what the father should or shouldn't have done, it in no way excuses what the driver did. He should be charged with attempted murder & have his licence taken away from him.

Well, actually, there's this little thing called 'provocation'. It means that if the father was being a prat, it *does* partially excuse what the driver did. Just like if I verbally abuse you, and you hit me with a baseball bat, you can claim provocation and try for a lesser sentence.

Well, actually, there's this little thing called 'provocation'. It means that if the father was being a prat, it *does* partially excuse what the driver did. Just like if I verbally abuse you, and you hit me with a baseball bat, you can claim provocation and try for a lesser sentence.

If, in the heat of the moment, the driver had reached out and hit the baby's carriage out of rage towards the father, you could justify that was provoked. But to drive off, turn around, and charge the father and the baby like a bull. That's not provoked. He premeditated that. He drove off and fully planned and realized what he was going to do next, and did it anyway.

Well, actually, there's this little thing called 'provocation'. It means that if the father was being a prat, it *does* partially excuse what the driver did. Just like if I verbally abuse you, and you hit me with a baseball bat, you can claim provocation and try for a lesser sentence.

I see your point, but I don't agree with it. The driver should have enough self restraint not to physically attack them.

I see your point, but I don't agree with it. The driver should have enough self restraint not to physically attack them.

And I see your point also. He certainly should have had enough self-restraint, and he *certainly* shouldn't be let near a car until he's learnt to deal with stress more effectively.

I'm really just playing Devil's Advocate here. Plus passive-agressive-road-ragers piss me off. My mum did it all the time when she was suffering from anxiety attacks. It's dangerous and stupid, and people who start shit with other drivers shouldn't be allowed to bitch when the other driver reacts badly to it. But, naturally, since only one party in this actually broke a law, I can support the fact that only that person should be punished by the legal system.

's one of the cases where I can keep logic separate from morals/emotions, I guess.

You may be interested in this too: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=388741

's one of the cases where I can keep logic separate from morals/emotions, I guess.

True, what we should do is far removed from what we actually do.

True, what we should do is far removed from what we actually do.

This is really more 'I can understand the basics of why it happened, and it wasn't all the drivers fault... but on the other hand, he was the only guy to break the law, so he should still be punished'.

Hrm, maybe I should just shut up and go with what you said though. Your point is much more, for lack of a better phrase, to the point.

This is really more 'I can understand the basics of why it happened, and it wasn't all the drivers fault... but on the other hand, he was the only guy to break the law, so he should still be punished'.

Hrm, maybe I should just shut up and go with what you said though. Your point is much more, for lack of a better phrase, to the point.

I think it was all (100%) the drivers fault. He was told off for being a dick, then tuned around and did something incomprehensible to most people. Driving over (or into) someone deliberately is not an acceptable retaliation to verbal abuse, especially warranted abuse. As for the perambulator, that's sub-human, I would've thought.

I think it was all (100%) the drivers fault. He was told off for being a dick, then tuned around and did something incomprehensible to most people. Driving over (or into) someone deliberately is not an acceptable retaliation to verbal abuse, especially warranted abuse. As for the perambulator, that's sub-human, I would've thought.

I don't use phrases like 'sub-human'. They stem from everyone thinking that they are on the side of Good, so that if someone else does something they wouldn't do, that other person must automatically be on the side of Evil. I tend to think more along the lines of 'they're most likely just like me... so I'll try and imagine what it would take to make me do something similar to what they did'. Usually it turns out that it's something beyond their control (brainwashing, mental instabilities/hormonal inbalances, lack of understanding of consequences, etc).

I guess my point is that there's a difference between 'understandable' and 'acceptable'. I can understand why the driver did what he did (to an extent, and in the abstract), but that certainly doesn't make it acceptable.

I think the guy deserves jail time. Personally speaking, in the same situation, I wouldn't want him to do time, but that's because I'm a vindictive bastard and I'd be around to his house with a baseball bat and a few mates as soon as the opportunity arose. With alibis aplently. He'd not be walking again, let alone driving.

The thought of anyone doing something like that to my son or daughter out of malice towards me is unthinkable. I get pretty bad road rage from time to time, and I've been on the receiving end of it once. But I don't think involving an infant is a very sensible thing to do, whatever the circumstance. Where I live there's a dangerous mini-island that a lot of drivers just go straight over, and there's been a couple of occasions where I've been bawled out or given evil stares for daring to assert my right of way. The temptation to go after them is sometimes almost too much, but I resist... so far.

I think the guy deserves jail time. Personally speaking, in the same situation, I wouldn't want him to do time, but that's because I'm a vindictive bastard and I'd be around to his house with a baseball bat and a few mates as soon as the opportunity arose. With alibis aplently. He'd not be walking again, let alone driving.

The thought of anyone doing something like that to my son or daughter out of malice towards me is unthinkable. I get pretty bad road rage from time to time, and I've been on the receiving end of it once. But I don't think involving an infant is a very sensible thing to do, whatever the circumstance. Where I live there's a dangerous mini-island that a lot of drivers just go straight over, and there's been a couple of occasions where I've been bawled out or given evil stares for daring to assert my right of way. The temptation to go after them is sometimes almost too much, but I resist... so far.


How is it unthinkable? It is a very effictive tactic, really. Kill someone and he suffers for a second. Kill someone's child and he suffers for a lifetime. For that matter, people who would be able to effectivly resist physical torture wouldn't be able to resist watching their children being tortured. I wouldn't attack a person's child out of momentary anger, but it is a nice option to have in situations that require the utmost ruthlessness. Mostly the "tell me where the armed nuclear bomb is" type of situations.

I'm of the lead by example philosophy. If you want others to act nice, you act nice to them. Escalating the situation is never a good idea.

Olivia Rose landing a further 5m away

Ollie, who does not want his surname published


anyone else see a problem here? :D

I dont care how agitated the driver was. If he was in such a poor mental state at the time, then he shouldnt have gotten behind the wheel. There is NO excuse for deliberately ramming into a babys stroller. NONE. If that baby had landed on its head and been killed, he would be charged for murder or vehicular homocideand rightfully so. If it had been my child, I'd have probably beaten him to death before the police or ambulance ever got there.

I don't use phrases like 'sub-human'. They stem from everyone thinking that they are on the side of Good, so that if someone else does something they wouldn't do, that other person must automatically be on the side of Evil. I tend to think more along the lines of 'they're most likely just like me... so I'll try and imagine what it would take to make me do something similar to what they did'. Usually it turns out that it's something beyond their control (brainwashing, mental instabilities/hormonal inbalances, lack of understanding of consequences, etc).

I guess my point is that there's a difference between 'understandable' and 'acceptable'. I can understand why the driver did what he did (to an extent, and in the abstract), but that certainly doesn't make it acceptable.

I consider myself an empathetic person. I don't think in terms of 'good and evil' or 'black and white'. I can see your point, but I disagree. I do not understand - To make me do that would be impossible. I would have to have lost significant portions of my mind. If I acted in that way, I would consider myself sub-human. The man's an arsehole, a violent one - not fit for any society I wish to inhabit.

Olivia Rose landing a further 5m away

Ollie, who does not want his surname published


anyone else see a problem here? :D

:D That's very considerate of them. Perhaps Rose is her second given name? ... Nah. :D

Hear! Hear! This is just unacceptable behaviour on the part of the driver. He should be imprisoned and have his licence permanently removed.

Agreed, give the standard in that country for two counts of attempted murder and permanently suspend his driving privileges.

:D That's very considerate of them. Perhaps Rose is her second given name? ... Nah. :D
I wouldnt give the media that much credit :)

If, in the heat of the moment, the driver had reached out and hit the baby's carriage out of rage towards the father, you could justify that was provoked. But to drive off, turn around, and charge the father and the baby like a bull. That's not provoked. He premeditated that. He drove off and fully planned and realized what he was going to do next, and did it anyway.
I agree with Sdaeriji, here. The driver may still have been angry, but to drive off, turn around, and come back aiming at them implies some degree of premeditation and lack-of-regard for human life.

Olivia Rose landing a further 5m away

Ollie, who does not want his surname published


anyone else see a problem here? :D
You're assuming that the child inherited the fathers surname, which may not be the case.

You're also assuming that the child does not have two given names, like a girl in a family called "Smith" (as an example; I'm making this up) might be named "Mary Jane Smith".

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

Thankyou to the mod who changed the title, I shouldn't have listed it as such. By way of explanation, not as an excuse the article horrified me, probably because baby Ollie is the same age as baby Hayden.

However I probably would have changed it to something more like; "Driver deliberatly runs over pram," to ensure that people realise this was no accident. Thanks anyway.:)

Car hits pram...
Isn't that the title of a CD? Or a song or a band or something?
It sounds very familiar.

Actually, it's not the first instance of such an occurance I've ever heard of.

About 15 years ago a driver of a stolen car struck a stroller (that's what we call 'em here in the states) with a 2 year old in it while being pursued by police. The stroller and child wedged under the front fender of the vehicle, but luckily remained upright. The car continued for almost two miles before the driver was boxed in by traffic. The stroller was drug along the entire way. The child had only minor injuries. That idiot got prison time I believe. I think it's warranted again.

siblings = brothers/sisters

I think you mean offspring, or possibly spawn. Depending on whether you're as harsh as me or not
Another good one to say when meeting the mother of a friend/bf/gf:
"How wonderful it is to finally meet the womb that spilled <insert person's name> into this world"

public flogging for 200 alex