NationStates Jolt Archive


women priests?

Youthopia
11-01-2005, 18:25
Any body here a Catholic? If so or if not I want to hear your opinion.
In the Catholic Church women can not become priests only nuns. Not that I want to be a priest but women should have the right. The church is the last place there should be discrimination against women, right?
Dempublicents
11-01-2005, 18:29
Personally, I believe women should be allowed to be religious leaders. However, I am not a member of any religious organization which does not allow it and I would not claim to have any authority to change those other organizations.
Pikistan
11-01-2005, 20:06
As an Episcopalian, I can say that there is nothing wrong with having female priests/bishops. We have one in our parish, and she's great.

I go to a Catholic school, and I asked about it in religion class once, and the explination they gave me was in essence that "God made some things specially reserved for men, because women have other important things to do".

What a bunch of sexist BS.

The Episcopal Church lets priest marry too, and I don't find anything wrong with that either. My priest's husband is a deacon, and a darn good one too. Catholics will say that it's because "Priests have so many other duties to their parish that they can't be concerned with taking care of a family". Yet my priest manages it just fine. Hmmm.

I feel sorry for a lot of Catholics out there because their religion can be so constrictive. Oh well, what can you do?
Commando2
12-01-2005, 00:05
Hello. I'm a Roman Catholic, so I guess I'll share my opinion. Personally, I have no problem letting women be priests. If the church changed its position, I would be glad. However, this change would have a HUGE impact on church tradition and order. The Catholic Church is based on sacred tradition, and if women are allowed to be priests, then they can also work their way up. So then the question comes along, what if a women becamse Pope? Some Catholics might have a problem with that. Also, what happens to the orders of nuns? Nevertheless, I have no problem with women being priests.
Rockness
12-01-2005, 00:07
There should be no problem, but that's religion for you.

Same goes for the gay issue.
Conceptualists
12-01-2005, 00:08
Also, what happens to the orders of nuns?

There are still monastic orders.

Personally I don't care. Nominally I am a Catholic, but I fall into the Hicks school of thought on the subject of women priest "Now we have priests of both sexes that I don't listen to"
RhynoD
12-01-2005, 00:15
First off, being a priest isn't a right, it's a privilege granted by that church.
Secondly, if you don't like it, don't be a part of that church.
Thirdly, it's not discriminatory. They're not saying woman aren't good enough to be priests, it's saying woman aren't suited to be priests, just like men aren't suited to give birth or be nuns. It's just like that. Men are generally physically stronger just because of the way we are built. Women are generally smarter because of the way their brains work. Men are generally better at being priests, so they are. It has nothing to do with one being better than the other, just being different, which isn't going to change without serious biological engineering, which would defeat the purpose anyways.

Note also, I'm not Catholic.
Jenn Jenn Land
12-01-2005, 00:16
Sigh. When I was a Christian, this was an issue for me. A BIG issue.
Paul was a sexist bigot, no matter how you interpret him. He was a Jewish man, of 2000 years ago, and therefore, he was SEXIST. Just as Moses and all the other prophets were indeed sexist.
It's part of the reason why I ultimately rejected the faith.
I don't think the Catholic Church is going to let it happen. It's hard enough getting it out to the protestant churches. The worst churchs, in my opinion, are the ones that let women get "half-way" there. Kind of like, "Well, we'll let you do this, but I'm afraid because of your genitalia, you can't do THAT."
Christians. *shakes head*
Thyonopoly
12-01-2005, 00:18
Women can't even teach themselves men are the dominat sex, so why should we let them help us reach the ultimate afterlife. If I had it my way I would make every women a sex puppet and house slaves why men could sleep with any woman they wanted to as long as they paid the master of the woman!
Jenn Jenn Land
12-01-2005, 00:19
First off, being a priest isn't a right, it's a privilege granted by that church.
Secondly, if you don't like it, don't be a part of that church.
Thirdly, it's not discriminatory. They're not saying woman aren't good enough to be priests, it's saying woman aren't suited to be priests, just like men aren't suited to give birth or be nuns. It's just like that. Men are generally physically stronger just because of the way we are built. Women are generally smarter because of the way their brains work. Men are generally better at being priests, so they are. It has nothing to do with one being better than the other, just being different, which isn't going to change without serious biological engineering, which would defeat the purpose anyways.

Note also, I'm not Catholic.

You're logic is flawed.
Being a priest has nothing to do with strength. If anything, it has more to do with intelligence. I don't want a stupid body builder telling me about God's Kingdom.
Men are better at being priests then women? Where do you get your information? Has there ever BEEN a woman priest? No. Not in the Catholic Church.
From the Bible? And yet you say that women are not less than men? You appearantly have not read it in its entirety.
*shakes head* I reiterate:
Silly Christians.
Commando2
12-01-2005, 00:35
Silly Christians.


Stop making stupid statements.
Equus
12-01-2005, 00:37
The Catholic church does not currently allow female priests because they have never had female priests. The apostle Paul wrote a response to a complaint some Christians had about some women disrupting their church. His letter essentially said that that the women had no right to do so, and should be made to keep silent. Some bright bishop interpreted that comment to mean that no women should ever speak in church. As the people who do the most speaking in a service is the priest giving the sermon, there was no chance they'd ever allow a woman to fill that post. Even nunneries with Mother Superiors needed to be affiliated with a male priest to perform services and take confession.

Many centuries later, most churches recognize that women have a lot to share and make good teachers and preachers. Thus, many Protestant denominations have allowed woman to act as ministers. But Protestants Christianity is a rebellion against Catholicism in many ways - they're not as steeped in church tradition as the Catholics. The Catholic church is rooted in centuries of tradition so old it's considered law. It takes forever for them to make even the smallest changes to how they worship.

I expect that someday Catholics will allow women to be priests. I just don't expect it to be soon.

By the way, there are some married Catholic priests. These are men who became priests after being married. The Catholic church does not allow or expect them to put their wives aside, and generally grant them compensation to remained married to their wives while being priests.
Jenn Jenn Land
12-01-2005, 00:39
Stop making stupid statements.
Stupid statements.
Hm.
I thought it was pretty intelligent myself. Biased and stereotypical as hell, but truthful nonetheless. As is with any religious group, but especially Christians, at least right now.
But maybe if you could make intelligent points, I wouldn't have to resort to these "stupid" statements, which you're lacking right here:
However, this change would have a HUGE impact on church tradition and order. The Catholic Church is based on sacred tradition, and if women are allowed to be priests, then they can also work their way up. So then the question comes along, what if a women becamse Pope? Some Catholics might have a problem with that. Also, what happens to the orders of nuns? Nevertheless, I have no problem with women being priests.
It speaks for itself. Just look at Catholic, or even, Christian history in general! "For tradition" is a load of bullshit. God gave you a mind to use to PROGESS.
Commando2
12-01-2005, 01:01
Stupid statements.
Hm.
I thought it was pretty intelligent myself. Biased and stereotypical as hell, but truthful nonetheless. As is with any religious group, but especially Christians, at least right now.
But maybe if you could make intelligent points, I wouldn't have to resort to these "stupid" statements, which you're lacking right here:

It speaks for itself. Just look at Catholic, or even, Christian history in general! "For tradition" is a load of bullshit. God gave you a mind to use to PROGESS.

Go away. You are clearly an intolerant person who has no grasp of Christianity whatsoever.
Goed Twee
12-01-2005, 01:04
Just do what I do.

Say "Fuck you" to all religions ^_^
Commando2
12-01-2005, 01:08
Your intolerant as well. I thought atheists were supposed to care less about religion, not hate it. Oh yeah, you must be one of those ANGSTheists. Sorry.
RhynoD
12-01-2005, 01:14
You're logic is flawed.
Being a priest has nothing to do with strength. If anything, it has more to do with intelligence. I don't want a stupid body builder telling me about God's Kingdom.
Men are better at being priests then women? Where do you get your information? Has there ever BEEN a woman priest? No. Not in the Catholic Church.
From the Bible? And yet you say that women are not less than men? You appearantly have not read it in its entirety.
*shakes head* I reiterate:
Silly Christians.
Apparently you haven't either, and if you have, I wonder which "bible" it was you were reading. I never said they couldn't or shouldn't, just that there are differences and men are just better suited to being ministers.

And that is an analogy.
RhynoD
12-01-2005, 01:17
Your intolerant as well. I thought atheists were supposed to care less about religion, not hate it. Oh yeah, you must be one of those ANGSTheists. Sorry.
Nice.
Chocolate is Yummier
12-01-2005, 01:18
Hello. I'm a Roman Catholic, so I guess I'll share my opinion. Personally, I have no problem letting women be priests. If the church changed its position, I would be glad. However, this change would have a HUGE impact on church tradition and order. The Catholic Church is based on sacred tradition, and if women are allowed to be priests, then they can also work their way up. So then the question comes along, what if a women becamse Pope? Some Catholics might have a problem with that. Also, what happens to the orders of nuns? Nevertheless, I have no problem with women being priests.

What he/she said.
i think it would be okay, but i wonder how all the male priests would react, because some of them would be sexist.

I think the only reason that there is only male priests is that they were so sexist in the beginning of the church. It's the same reason that god is always depicted as a He.
Takeoshika
12-01-2005, 01:21
i'm sorry but isn't there already an equivelent to female priests? I mean we got nuns right?
Vegas-Rex
12-01-2005, 01:24
Apparently you haven't either, and if you have, I wonder which "bible" it was you were reading. I never said they couldn't or shouldn't, just that there are differences and men are just better suited to being ministers.

And that is an analogy.

Men are better suited to being priests because men are much more lilkely to be pedophiles. Seriously, have you ever heard of a woman pedophile? (If you have, I'd like to meet her. I might still be young enough...)
Chocolate is Yummier
12-01-2005, 01:26
i think nuns are more like the equivelent of monks
Slinao
12-01-2005, 01:26
I think it all goes back to setting up a structure to build a church from. The bible does say not to have a female as a priest, but its mainly built off the Jewish concept of clean and unclean. In anciet times only a clean person could enter the Holy of Holies to appear before G-d. Any person that was unclean could not withstand the purety of G-ds appearance and they would die. To keep people from being killed like this, a set of rules were set to keep people that go before G-d to be clean. Any contact with any blood causes a person to be unclean. Women are thusly unclean a good portion of the month due to their periods. In that respect, what job would a female have in such? They would teach the children, and they would preside over the households. The male could teach, because there was less limiting him.

As for the current church, I don't think thier should be priests. What purpose do they serve? No church does sacrifices anymore, because Christ has become the final one. In the jewish world there are no high priest that I'm aware of because the nation of Isreal only recently was reformed, and the the Temple has been destroyed, so no sacrifces can be made, so no one could enter the Holy of Holies anyway.

I think women can be teachers. There is nothing keeping them from that position. The only thing the bible says is not to have them incharge of the church, and thats more symbolic and tradition anyways. Christ taught everyone, and everyone was to teach. He never claimed any earth title except that of Rabbi, and that just means "teacher". To be a christian, one should learn so that one can teach.

Priest marrying is just a school of thought. The Catholic stance is that it is a distraction, and it is. But that doesn't mean you can't be a good christian or a good teacher if you are married, you just have more to worry about. The same is true with priests not having sex. Its a vow they take willingly and its one to show they are setting themselves apart for G-d. I don't think its needed, but its their way of doing things.

I don't see the main catholic church changing anytime soon. They have shown that they are set in their ways many times. Look at the sex scandels, many people asked that the no sex vow be lifted so the temptation would be less, but the responce was no. If a priest wishes to have sex, he can, all he has to do is step down from the office in teh catholic church.
Kwangistar
12-01-2005, 01:32
Men are better suited to being priests because men are much more lilkely to be pedophiles. Seriously, have you ever heard of a woman pedophile? (If you have, I'd like to meet her. I might still be young enough...)
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/news/701_beasleylafave.html
Its not quite child-level, but seeing as how you're posting here... :p
Jenn Jenn Land
12-01-2005, 01:33
1 Corinthians 11:3 *

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.
(Head of every woman is the man)


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1 Corinthians 11:7 - 9*

7 For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

1 Corinthians 14:34 - 35*

34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
(Woman to be silent in church. A woman is not to speak in church)


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Ephesians 5:22 - 25*

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
(Wives must submit themselves to their husband, afterall he is the head of the wife)


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Colossians 3:18 *

18. Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
(Wives submit to their husband -- the Lord expects it)


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1 Timothy 2:9 - 15*

9. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
(Women not to wear braided hair, gold, pearls, or costly array.
Women must learn in silence. Women are not to teach and not have
authority over men. Women must be silent. Adam was created first,
then Eve. A woman was deceived, but Adam was not deceived)


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Romans 7:2

2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband.
(woman bound to her husband for life)


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Titus 2:3 - 5*

3 The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
(Women to obey their own husbands)


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1 Peter 3:1 -3

1. Likewise, ye wives, [be] in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation [coupled] with fear.
3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
1 Peter 3:5 -7*

5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
Genesis 3:16*

16. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
(Women will be ruled by men)


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Leviticus 12:2 *

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.
Leviticus 12:5

5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.
(Woman unclean for 7 days if she gives birth to a man child.
She is unclean for 14 days to 66 days if she gives birth to woman child)


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Esther 1:22

22 For he sent letters into all the king's provinces, into every province according to the writing thereof, and to every people after their language, that every man should bear rule in his own house, and that [it] should be published according to the language of every people.
Job 25:4 *

4 How then can man be justified with God? or , how can he be clean [that is] born of a woman?
(Any man born of a woman is unclean)


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Ecclesiastes 7:26

26 And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart [is] snares and nets, [and] her hands [as] bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her.
( Women can be source of evil for men. Men source of evil for
women? -- doesn't say)


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Deuteronomy 22:5 *

5. The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so [are] abomination unto the LORD thy God.
( Women not to wear pants, nor men to wear dresses)


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1 Corinthians 11:14 *

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
(Men not to wear long hair)

taken from
http://members.shaw.ca/tfrisen/Bbl/Sexism/Sexism.html

But I'm sure you could find other sources.

You're supposed to care about religion, if affects everything.

Just look at the moron that we have in office.

Why do I hate religion?

9/11, for one. History. Slavery. Sexism. Homophobia.
Vegas-Rex
12-01-2005, 01:41
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/news/701_beasleylafave.html
Its not quite child-level, but seeing as how you're posting here... :p

Think about how many young teens would become religious with priests like that...
Seriously, tantric sex was what saved Hinduism from fading under Buddhism. What if Christianity tried something like that? It could be a reenactment of the conception of Jesus. You would need women priests, though.
Commando2
12-01-2005, 02:57
Celebate priests are the way to go. If you can't handle it then don't take the office. Priests are to remain pure so they can preach the word of God.
Youthopia
12-01-2005, 03:38
I am greatly appalled at some of the answers and completely heartbroken. God loves all equally, right? Than we should all have equal rights. This brings me to tears that women are to be silenced and live under a man especially in the Bible or the Church. Im not sure I want a religion anymore. :(
Jenn Jenn Land
12-01-2005, 03:53
I am greatly appalled at some of the answers and completely heartbroken. God loves all equally, right? Than we should all have equal rights. This brings me to tears that women are to be silenced and live under a man especially in the Bible or the Church. Im not sure I want a religion anymore. :(

Me, too. Me, too. :(
But that's just the way it is. It's no better in Islam or Judiasm either.
Polyglotmadgeniusland
13-01-2005, 01:59
Me, too. Me, too. :(
But that's just the way it is. It's no better in Islam or Judiasm either.

This is fair enough, but I'd like to put your abhorrence of sexism to the test:

The old pre-Christian Celtic worldview, which people in larger numbers are embracing in the modern day, was matriarchal to the point of notable sexism. In their worldview men were often treated as expendable cannon fodder and given less rights than a woman.

Also, modern day Dianic Wiccans freely take on male slaves to do their bidding, as they believe all men are inferior and beholden to women.

Do you also abhor these worldviews for their sexism? Or is your abhorrence of sexism limited to sexism against women?
Commando2
13-01-2005, 02:15
You're supposed to care about religion, if affects everything.

Just look at the moron that we have in office.

Why do I hate religion?

9/11, for one. History. Slavery. Sexism. Homophobia.

Shut up. You are an intolerant person. Look at what atheism has done-

-Abortion (murder of babies)
-Pornography (disgusting immoral crap that disgraces our nation)
-Prostitution (pure evil immorality)
-Corruption of marriage
-Burning/egging of churches
-Colombine
-Murder of millions in Cold War
Legless Pirates
13-01-2005, 02:27
We had some female popes
Neo-Anarchists
13-01-2005, 02:31
Shut up. You are an intolerant person. Look at what atheism has done-
Bad move to start off a post about intolerance. If you tell somebody to shut up, it will color most people's opinions on you.

-Abortion (murder of babies)
Foetii. Not babies.
-Pornography (disgusting immoral crap that disgraces our nation)
So why is it bad? Short of what the Bible says.
-Prostitution (pure evil immorality)
Again, why?
-Corruption of marriage
Marriage is not an institution of the Church.
-Burning/egging of churches
I would say this is just immature behaviour.
-Colombine
Where'd atheism come in there?
-Murder of millions in Cold War
There's been plenty of murder on the other side of the fence too. Either way, you can't judge all by the actions of some.
Keruvalia
13-01-2005, 02:33
Shut up. You are an intolerant person. Look at what atheism has done-

-Abortion (murder of babies)

Calling an embryo a "baby" is what religion has done and, in actuality, not even religion has done it. Religious leaders - specifically the Papacy - has done it. If you're not Catholic, you don't have to listen to the Pope. According to the Bible, unless the child is a Prophet or destined to be a great King, a baby is not a baby until it is born.

-Pornography (disgusting immoral crap that disgraces our nation)

Voyeurism and such has been around for a long time. In the early days of the Christian church, prostitutes were given to high ranking monks so that they could be more relaxed and, as an incentive, lower ranking monks got to watch if they'd done their chores. If that's not church approved pornography, I don't know what is.

-Prostitution (pure evil immorality)

Prostitution is not a sin in any version of the Bible. Magdelane's sin was working on the sabbath, not being a prostitute. Magdelane was not an atheist, but rather a deeply devoted disciple of Jesus and a strong believer in God.

-Corruption of marriage

I know a couple who are Christian and they got married in a Christian church and said their vows in Jesus' name and she recently left him for getting drunk and beating her. Yes ... it must have been the atheists.

-Burning/egging of churches

Jesus - who i am pretty sure believed in God - trashed a temple or two in his day.

-Colombine

The parents of the kids who shot up Colombine High were God-fearing, gun-totin' Christians. It was most likely their heavy handed "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition" upbringing that led those kids to that ... not the atheists.

-Murder of millions in Cold War

Which millions did the atheists murder?
Celtlund
13-01-2005, 02:42
I am a non-practicing Catholic. Because of the way I was brought up in the Irish Catholic tradition I would not even take Holy Communion from a layperson, I will not take the Eucharist in my hand, and I definitely would never go to a woman priest or go to Mass officiated by a woman priest. Hey, it is the way I was raised and the way I was taught by the Church.
Vegas-Rex
13-01-2005, 02:47
Shut up. You are an intolerant person. Look at what atheism has done-

-Abortion (murder of babies)
-Pornography (disgusting immoral crap that disgraces our nation)
-Prostitution (pure evil immorality)
-Corruption of marriage
-Burning/egging of churches
-Colombine
-Murder of millions in Cold War

Eh-hem. I just love this...

-Every single -ing (yay terry pratchett!) war in history (murder of men, women, and babies)
-Pedophilia (porn doesn't destroy sanity)
-Castartion (choirs)
-Corruption of marriage (lack of polygamy=start of women's power)
-Sacking churches, temples, mosques, etc.
-Thurston
-Murder of millions of jews throughout history
Neo-Anarchists
13-01-2005, 02:54
Eh-hem. I just love this...

-Every single -ing (yay terry pratchett!) war in history (murder of men, women, and babies)
-Pedophilia (porn doesn't destroy sanity)
-Castartion (choirs)
-Corruption of marriage (lack of polygamy=start of women's power)
-Sacking churches, temples, mosques, etc.
-Thurston
-Murder of millions of jews throughout history
What, you don't like Thurston Moore?
C'mon, Sonic Youth rocks!
:D
Weegies-R-Us
13-01-2005, 02:55
I'm a Catholic and I disagree with women priests. I feel that God put men in charge of the Church, not to discriminate, but for other reasons. Can you imagine how it would be if during a funeral a woman priest got emotional and had to stop the Mass? I just think it's silly, but that's my opinion and I have a right to it. I also feel that it is traditional and unless the pope suddenly becomes radical, nothing is changing.
Along with the topic of abortion, isn't it true that the embryos have beating hearts and functioning body systems? Once again, I believe that life begins at conception.
Neo-Anarchists
13-01-2005, 03:01
I'm a Catholic and I disagree with women priests. I feel that God put men in charge of the Church, not to discriminate, but for other reasons. Can you imagine how it would be if during a funeral a woman priest got emotional and had to stop the Mass?
Not all women are like that.
I just think it's silly, but that's my opinion and I have a right to it. I also feel that it is traditional and unless the pope suddenly becomes radical, nothing is changing.
Yeah, that's true.
Along with the topic of abortion, isn't it true that the embryos have beating hearts and functioning body systems? Once again, I believe that life begins at conception.
At conception, they are nothing but a mass of dividing cells. Only after a certain point do they have functioning bodies and are alive.
Celtlund
13-01-2005, 03:02
Along with the topic of abortion, isn't it true that the embryos have beating hearts and functioning body systems?

For more information on this subject go to http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=387882&page=1&pp=15

It's a pretty hot forum.
Nicapolis
13-01-2005, 03:27
Which millions did the atheists murder?
um i know stalin killed at least 20 million people and he was a leader of the Soviet Union. And for anybody who didn't know, the Soviet Union had forced Atheism. So the Atheists did kill people.


on to women priests,

they are good, i am Anglican and find that women priests are just as good. And just something to you Catholics, Anglican and Catholic beliefs are identical, except for the rediculous rules the Pope's make. The services are exactly the same. it hasn't done anything bad too our Church.
Afion
13-01-2005, 03:27
First off Im protestant, but some of your arguements are just silly, like the comment on monks getting prostitutes. Obviously this is human corruption of religion, and not the true religion. In my opinion maybe 5% or less of the people who say they are christian actually are, and this is sad but true. Also the subject of pornography came up. Why is it wrong... are you kidding me. Pornography is a drug, people get addicted cause they like it so much. This tears apart a number of families. Also it provides the view of seeing women as objects.

Women can't even teach themselves men are the dominat sex, so why should we let them help us reach the ultimate afterlife. If I had it my way I would make every women a sex puppet and house slaves why men could sleep with any woman they wanted to as long as they paid the master of the woman!

You know what, I bet this guy looks at porn. Also, talk about being sexist. I dont mean to insult this guy, just to use him as an example.

Also about abortion - in my opinion, it is a life at conception because it has the nessicary chraracteristics to become human.

These are my views so I dont care what you think.
Neo-Anarchists
13-01-2005, 03:31
These are my views so I dont care what you think.
:rolleyes:
Celtlund
13-01-2005, 03:36
they are good, i am Anglican and find that women priests are just as good. And just something to you Catholics, Anglican and Catholic beliefs are identical, except for the rediculous rules the Pope's make. The services are exactly the same. it hasn't done anything bad too our Church.

No, but a homosexual bishop sure shook things up.
Uldaedia
13-01-2005, 04:22
There should be no problem, but that's religion for you.

Same goes for the gay issue.

Your name fits. You rock.
Uldaedia
13-01-2005, 04:31
Originally Posted by Thyonopoly
Women can't even teach themselves men are the dominat sex, so why should we let them help us reach the ultimate afterlife. If I had it my way I would make every women a sex puppet and house slaves why men could sleep with any woman they wanted to as long as they paid the master of the woman!

You, on the other hand, should be hung from a dark, cold ceiling and be poked with an electric cow prod until you scream so hard your ears pop. That is the most terrible, horribly sexist remark I have ever heard in my life! You do relize that you owe your life to a woman? That you wouldn't be on this earth without one? That your precious "Jesus" wouldn't be here without a woman? That women have actually been proven to have more brain-power than men? And women can teach themselves. For your information, pig, I teach myself on a modified curriculum and I get straight A's, and scored in the top two in every area in Stanford testing last year. I'm writing a novel, I've won many awards in english, science, and music. Men are not the dominant sex! Who told you that? "Sex puppets"? You have got to be the sickest person I have ever heard in my life. The "ultimate afterlife" for you must be a porn shop.
Neo-Anarchists
13-01-2005, 04:33
You, on the other hand, should be hung from a dark, cold ceiling and be poked with an electric cow prod until you scream so hard your ears pop. That is the most terrible, horribly sexist remark I have ever heard in my life! You do relize that you owe your life to a woman? That you wouldn't be on this earth without one? That your precious "Jesus" wouldn't be here without a woman? That women have actually been proven to have more brain-power than men? And women can teach themselves. For your information, pig, I teach myself on a modified curriculum and I get straight A's, and scored in the top two in every area in Stanford testing last year. I'm writing a novel, I've won many awards in english, science, and music. Men are not the dominant sex! Who told you that? "Sex puppets"? You have got to be the sickest person I have ever heard in my life. The "ultimate afterlife" for you must be a porn shop.
You might do well to keep the anger under wraps, lest the mods decide to delete you.
Just a friendly reminder.
Youthopia
13-01-2005, 05:06
I'm a Catholic and I disagree with women priests. I feel that God put men in charge of the Church, not to discriminate, but for other reasons. Can you imagine how it would be if during a funeral a woman priest got emotional and had to stop the Mass? I just think it's silly, but that's my opinion and I have a right to it. I also feel that it is traditional and unless the pope suddenly becomes radical, nothing is changing.
Along with the topic of abortion, isn't it true that the embryos have beating hearts and functioning body systems? Once again, I believe that life begins at conception.



I believe if a woman is determined to become a priest than she can work just as hard or better than a man. If a woman is truly commited to being a priest than she can control her emotions as well as any man. I dont think its silly but you do have a right to your opinion. On the topic of abortion your right life begins at conception, no exceptions.
Uldaedia
13-01-2005, 05:10
Sorry for so many posts in a row, but I just spotted this one.

Shut up. You are an intolerant person. Look at what atheism has done-

-Abortion (murder of babies)
-Pornography (disgusting immoral crap that disgraces our nation)
-Prostitution (pure evil immorality)
-Corruption of marriage
-Burning/egging of churches
-Colombine
-Murder of millions in Cold War

Who are you to call someone intolerant?
Abortion-Just because someone is an athiest doesn't mean they're going to get an abortion.
Pornography-Just because someone's an Athiest doesn't mean they watch porn.
Prostitution-just because someone is an athiest doesn't mean they are or have slept with a prostitute.
Corruption of marriage-What? What has that got to do with atheism?
Burning-egging of churches-You grasp at straws. I say yet again: Just because someone is an athiest doesn't mean they burn and egg chruches.
Columbine-More straws. What ha athiesm got to do with Columbine? You're saying that if those kids were religious they wouldn't have done it? Guess what: they were religious.
Murder of millions in Cold War-that's just ridiculous. Do you have a list of every single soldier who was an atheist and how many people they killed? And may I remind you that it was our chrisitian president who started the war in Iraq, killing millions of innocent people.

You generalize. Generalization is never true. I don't deny that soem athiests may do the things listed above, but you can't say that all do.
Youthopia
13-01-2005, 05:12
I'm a Catholic and I disagree with women priests. I feel that God put men in charge of the Church, not to discriminate, but for other reasons. Can you imagine how it would be if during a funeral a woman priest got emotional and had to stop the Mass? I just think it's silly, but that's my opinion and I have a right to it. I also feel that it is traditional and unless the pope suddenly becomes radical, nothing is changing.
Along with the topic of abortion, isn't it true that the embryos have beating hearts and functioning body systems? Once again, I believe that life begins at conception.



I believe if a woman is determined to become a priest than she can work just as hard or better than a man. If a woman is truly commited to being a priest than she can control her emotions as well as any man. I dont think its silly but you do have a right to your opinion. On the topic of abortion your right life begins at conception, no exceptions.
Keruvalia
13-01-2005, 08:35
um i know stalin killed at least 20 million people and he was a leader of the Soviet Union. And for anybody who didn't know, the Soviet Union had forced Atheism. So the Atheists did kill people.


Well, granted, but he said Cold War. That didn't really begin to heat up and get nasty until after Stalin's death. I was just wondering if he could come up with an example of an Atheist group deliberately slaughtering millions of people between 1956 and 1991.
Arammanar
13-01-2005, 09:32
You generalize. Generalization is never true.
Anyone else as baffled by this as I am?
Arammanar
13-01-2005, 09:34
You, on the other hand, should be hung from a dark, cold ceiling and be poked with an electric cow prod until you scream so hard your ears pop. That is the most terrible, -rant-afterlife" for you must be a porn shop.
You realize he only posted that so that some woman would have a hissy fit? And here we are. Looks like you just confirmed his women are inferior theory...and bragging about your straight A's on a message board doesn't do much but emphasize how young and unknowledgable you are.
Arammanar
13-01-2005, 09:35
At conception, they are nothing but a mass of dividing cells. Only after a certain point do they have functioning bodies and are alive.
At any point in your life you're just a mass of dividing cells. From conception til death you have a functioning body, so I don't see how this point matters.
Rathale
13-01-2005, 10:15
um i know stalin killed at least 20 million people and he was a leader of the Soviet Union. And for anybody who didn't know, the Soviet Union had forced Atheism. So the Atheists did kill people.


Did Stalin do it in the name of Athiesm? No he did it because he was a asshole, and the christians Crusades killed thousands as well, and they did it in the name of christianity.


At any point in your life you're just a mass of dividing cells. From conception til death you have a functioning body, so I don't see how this point matters.

At conception you DO NOT have a functioning body, a functioning body implies the ability to think or at least use instinct for yourself, which at that stage you cant.
Slinao
13-01-2005, 11:11
...
At conception you DO NOT have a functioning body, a functioning body implies the ability to think or at least use instinct for yourself, which at that stage you cant.

actually you do have instinct. Doctors have traced the ability to yawn to the very early stages of life in the womb. A yawn is one of the deepest sets of instict found in the human body. So it its based on instict that we are life, you're statement is not true.

I would say that the debate over when life begins goes beyond anything anyone could argue. For every statement there is a responce on the issue. Everything from DNA to forms. Will it ever be proven one way or another? No, because people will never see it on an equal ground. Each person that argues the point feels they see it from a better ground, and yet there is no better ground, just a different ground.

As for the whole, should there be female priests, its not up to anyone except the relgious leaders. The leaders are put there by a system, and if people don't like the system, they can find or make another way. Thus why there are so many types of christianity. Martin Luther felt changes were needed, and made a movement, and many others have done the same through out history. Its religion, it doens't have to follow logic or science or any of that bs in its order of being. It follows its own rules and those rules are based on interpretations of the world around us.
Neo-Anarchists
13-01-2005, 11:14
actually you do have instinct. Doctors have traced the ability to yawn to the very early stages of life in the womb. A yawn is one of the deepest sets of instict found in the human body. So it its based on instict that we are life, you're statement is not true.
Well, it's a bit tricky to yawn before your mouth develops...
;)