NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm a green-belt/blue-line in Tae Kwon Do, and just for fun I thought it'd be interesting to see if anyone else here practices a marital art. I'll have a poll in a sec.

I'm a green-belt/blue-line in Tae Kwon Do, and just for fun I thought it'd be interesting to see if anyone else here practices a marital art. I'll have a poll in a sec.

No, no no. Do not say your belts first off, all it does is confuse people, belts are different for every seperate art. Start off with how long you have been practicing for.

Too young for marital arts, too unfit for martial arts.

Perfectly able to be amused at apt typos though.

^.^

I took Tae Kwon Do once...
I never got any good. I'm not built for fighting.

Kendō, b*tch! :p I also practise iaidō, and will probably begin aikidō soon.

No, no no. Do not say your belts first off, all it does is confuse people, belts are different for every seperate art. Start off with how long you have been practicing for.

Alright then. I've been practicing for about a year and a half.

Alright then. I've been practicing for about a year and a half.

Good I've been in it for about 8 years. And just to let you know, most American Tae Kwon Do schools are horrible, they give you your black belt very early on. The MA's world calls these schools "Mcdojos", and Im not saying your school is like that, but just be careful and make sure your school isnt like that, you dont want to be taught crap just so some people can make money.

I Never really liked Martial Arts.

I prefer street fighting, no real rules, no real moves.

Good I've been in it for about 8 years. And just to let you know, most American Tae Kwon Do schools are horrible, they give you your black belt very early on. The MA's world calls these schools "Mcdojos", and Im not saying your school is like that, but just be careful and make sure your school isnt like that, you dont want to be taught crap just so some people can make money.
Hee!
I know, the first place I was at was one of those...
The next one was just a guy volunteering at a school, but the volunteer was the best teacher I ever had. He was tough, but fair, and knew what he was doing. Too bad I still sucked.

Oh well, I know enough to prevent myself from dying, I hope.

I Never really liked Martial Arts.

I prefer street fighting, no real rules, no real moves.

Than you no nothing about Martial Arts, sadly. All you just said, has nothing to do with the Martial Arts. Lemme explain.

The Martial Arts is pure repetition, you practice a technique thousands of times, then it becomes your reaction, no thinking, no moves. Its just there, you get attacked, you black out, and the next second you see a guy on the ground and you remember bits and pieces of the fight. Not all of it, because it was a reaction, you didnt even think about it, it was. Thats all. Secondly, its called an 'art' because it has no rules. 'Martial' means war, you are learning the Art of War, the way. It is not generic, it is an art.

Take My Dough blows.

I'm a blue belt in brazilian jiu-jutsu. I also train in Muay Thai and Combat Submission Wrestling. The kind of stuff you see in Mixed martial arts competitions like the UFC and Pride. I also do some Kali/Escrima.

Anything that involves a choreographed forms or kata is just dancing.

I tried to take up Sambo once, but I was too lazy to pull through. :p

However, I am teaching myself my own sword style. Kind of a cross between basic longsword style and a little bit of kendo. Granted, I'll get my ass kicked if I ever take Gnostikos on, but I'll be getting my ass kicked in an original way!

*manly arm pump*

Anything that involves a choreographed forms or kata is just dancing.

Yeah, your right, Chinese Masters and Japaneses Masters with their 2000 and up studies amount to nothing. I already told you above, about that the Repitition and the Reaction that spawns from forms and katas, it actually makes our reation times alot faster than yours, because we dont have to think.

I know I'm right. I also know you know nothing about actually fighting someone.

Kata and forms are a relatively new invention. Old style martial arts were practiced in alive environments.

Kata, forms, and repetition do nothing for actually fighting someone. They don't help at all. Bruce Lee wrote about this in Tao of Jeet Kune Do.

Let me clue you in on something, there is no ancient Shaolin Monk that knows Dim Mak that can kill everyone in the world at a touch. If you believe that crap, I've got a bridge to sell you.



Grazhkjistan - SAMBO is good stuff

Martial arts is useless this day in age a majority of the time in fights. To many crazy folks running around armed with alot more than sticks and stones.

Good I've been in it for about 8 years. And just to let you know, most American Tae Kwon Do schools are horrible, they give you your black belt very early on. The MA's world calls these schools "Mcdojos", and Im not saying your school is like that, but just be careful and make sure your school isnt like that, you dont want to be taught crap just so some people can make money.

Actually my teacher is Korean, he under with General Choi (the guy who unified the Korean kwons and basically invented Tae Kwon Do). Yeah, it is a little fast, but it's intense. My friend has been studying there for about seven or eight years and he's just now getting prepared to test for his second-degree black belt.

Martial arts is useless this day in age a majority of the time in fights. To many crazy folks running around armed with alot more than sticks and stones.

That's what Krav Maga is for. Official martial art of the Israeli Defense Forces. In other words, badass.

Will maybe only work 50% of the time, decent odds, but not good enough

Would wrestling be considered in this list?

Anyways this list makes me wonder why one would spend all this time on these "marital arts" when I see wrestlers destorying 90% of martial artists on various fighting shows. Other than Jui jitsu i guess.

You can become very good at wrestling after a few years, the same cant be said of something like karate.

I had this friends who has a "brown" belt, who had been taking Karate for about 6 years get KILLED by a wrestler...

Wushu

And just to tell you, Iron Bodied Arhats do exist. There the guys who can take an insane amount of punches without feeling anything. Then they kill you.

败坏道德之事 ½¬¡F½¬..

"Gentle Lotus"... old art, stopped after two years, I was too busy...

Anyways this list makes me wonder why one would spend all this time on these "marital arts" when I see wrestlers destorying 90% of martial artists on various fighting shows. Other than Jui jitsu i guess.

I guess people spend time on martial arts because there's a meditative effect. At least, I find that there is with TKD. It calms me and helps me focus on the world.

As for wrestlers beating martial artists, I have to say (and I plead ignorance in all other martial arts) that it's easy to beat someone if you can pin them. If they can stay away from that, it's a much more even fight.

Would wrestling be considered in this list?

Anyways this list makes me wonder why one would spend all this time on these "marital arts" when I see wrestlers destorying 90% of martial artists on various fighting shows. Other than Jui jitsu i guess.

You can become very good at wrestling after a few years, the same cant be said of something like karate.

I had this friends who has a "brown" belt, who had been taking Karate for about 6 years get KILLED by a wrestler...
Wrestling absolutely counts.

I have many good friends in the fight community who got their start as wrestlers. You develop excellent takedown skills as well as ground movement skills, while the Take My Doughists live in some delusion that you won't be able to take them down.

Would wrestling be considered in this list?

Anyways this list makes me wonder why one would spend all this time on these "marital arts" when I see wrestlers destorying 90% of martial artists on various fighting shows. Other than Jui jitsu i guess.

You can become very good at wrestling after a few years, the same cant be said of something like karate.

I had this friends who has a "brown" belt, who had been taking Karate for about 6 years get KILLED by a wrestler...

Well in this case, it's obvious why; all a wrestler needs to do is get close, but a wise non-wrestler need only be dextrous and/or practice legwork...

And jujistu is a Japanese art... *hisss*...

I know I'm right. I also know you know nothing about actually fighting someone.

Kata and forms are a relatively new invention. Old style martial arts were practiced in alive environments.

Kata, forms, and repetition do nothing for actually fighting someone. They don't help at all. Bruce Lee wrote about this in Tao of Jeet Kune Do.

Let me clue you in on something, there is no ancient Shaolin Monk that knows Dim Mak that can kill everyone in the world at a touch. If you believe that crap, I've got a bridge to sell you.



Grazhkjistan - SAMBO is good stuff

You know nothing. Bruce Lee is a new comer to Martial Arts, while his Jeet Kune Do was a very good art and the concept was very very well developed(One could tell it was made by a man on the path), it was Shaolin Monks that started Martial Arts, a man named Bodhidharma, crossed the Himalyas to china. He was a Buddhist Priest from India. When he arrived at the Buddhist Temple in China, he found the monks weak and not physically fit. They could not resist falling alseep during their meditations, that is when he formulated arts around the basic animals for the Monks to practice, this also fits in with the Taoists moving meditation excerises. They used this to stay fit. Also note that weapons were not allowed in this period and the monks couldnt train with that. That is why the Martial Arts are the way, and the path. Do in Japenese means way, I.E. Way to enlightenment, Ju*do*, Aki*do*, Bushi*do*, Karate-*do*(Gichin Funakoshi refered to Karate as this), and etc.
Katas do do something when fighting someone, Katas are all that the masters had learned, bundled together in a form, Practicing it would make one proficent in the movements of his art. In addition to causing reactions to become the form. I was practicing a technique one day that was against a knife,(it is hard to explain it on here in words, but I will try), the knife was thrusted at me, I grabbed, side-stepped and mantised the hand as to make the attacker move towards me, I then twisted his hand back and proceeded to lead the knife accross the throat, slitting it if It was for real. That very day I was sparring, I blacked out, and the next thing I knew my opponent was on the ground. I recalled holding the arm of my opponent and thrusting him downward, when at that point, my hand proceeded to form a backfist and reverse to my opponents head hitting him as he fell. Do you see what form does? Kata is used for this, Kata is for practicing your attacks and defense, but form is for reaction.
Also, Katas and Forms are not danced, they are stressed that you actually view an opponent attacking you, and hit the air like you would normally. Then we practice it on normal people, AND IT WORKS!
As for Dim Mak, You havent seen alot in Martial Arts have you?

Wushu

And just to tell you, Iron Bodied Arhats do exist. There the guys who can take an insane amount of punches without feeling anything. Then they kill you.
Sure they do. In never never land. Right there with Peter Pan, and having lunch with the Easter Bunny.

Would wrestling be considered in this list?

Anyways this list makes me wonder why one would spend all this time on these "marital arts" when I see wrestlers destorying 90% of martial artists on various fighting shows. Other than Jui jitsu i guess.

You can become very good at wrestling after a few years, the same cant be said of something like karate.

I had this friends who has a "brown" belt, who had been taking Karate for about 6 years get KILLED by a wrestler...

Wanna know why? Because wrestlers go to the ground, Martial Artists dont fight on the ground. And also, fighting on the ground is stupid on the street, the second you do that, his friends are gonna surround you, and you will be stopmed to death. Trust me.

I started Fencing in 1991, though I haven't picked up a blade in two years.

Why is Boxing not on the list?
Wrestling?
Hockey? ;)

Sure they do. In never never land. Right there with Peter Pan, and having lunch with the Easter Bunny.

Ok, you dont know shit. Look it up on google. You'll see pictures of people doing it. Look up, Iron Shirt.

Would wrestling be considered in this list?

Anyways this list makes me wonder why one would spend all this time on these "marital arts" when I see wrestlers destorying 90% of martial artists on various fighting shows. Other than Jui jitsu i guess.

You can become very good at wrestling after a few years, the same cant be said of something like karate.

I had this friends who has a "brown" belt, who had been taking Karate for about 6 years get KILLED by a wrestler...

Oh and a Brown Belt of Six Years, probably didnt have suffecient training.

I started Fencing in 1991, though I haven't picked up a blade in two years.

Why is Boxing not on the list?
Wrestling?
Hockey? ;)

I think of martial arts as unarmed fighting, and as having some sort of philosophical side to them.

I voted 'other'. Though if I were specific, you'd either not approve or just wouldn't have heard of it. So I won't be.

We don't (legally) have guns in Britain; if you're not interested in dying in a knife-ridden pub brawl, you have to learn some technique or another.

You know nothing. Bruce Lee is a new comer to Martial Arts, while his Jeet Kune Do was a very good art and the concept was very very well developed(One could tell it was made by a man on the path), it was Shaolin Monks that started Martial Arts, a man named Bodhidharma, crossed the Himalyas to china. He was a Buddhist Priest from India. When he arrived at the Buddhist Temple in China, he found the monks weak and not physically fit. They could not resist falling alseep during their meditations, that is when he formulated arts around the basic animals for the Monks to practice, this also fits in with the Taoists moving meditation excerises. They used this to stay fit. Also note that weapons were not allowed in this period and the monks couldnt train with that. That is why the Martial Arts are the way, and the path. Do in Japenese means way, I.E. Way to enlightenment, Ju*do*, Aki*do*, Bushi*do*, Karate-*do*(Gichin Funakoshi refered to Karate as this), and etc.
Katas do do something when fighting someone, Katas are all that the masters had learned, bundled together in a form, Practicing it would make one proficent in the movements of his art. In addition to causing reactions to become the form. I was practicing a technique one day that was against a knife,(it is hard to explain it on here in words, but I will try), the knife was thrusted at me, I grabbed, side-stepped and mantised the hand as to make the attacker move towards me, I then twisted his hand back and proceeded to lead the knife accross the throat, slitting it if It was for real. That very day I was sparring, I blacked out, and the next thing I knew my opponent was on the ground. I recalled holding the arm of my opponent and thrusting him downward, when at that point, my hand proceeded to form a backfist and reverse to my opponents head hitting him as he fell. Do you see what form does? Kata is used for this, Kata is for practicing your attacks and defense, but form is for reaction.
Also, Katas and Forms are not danced, they are stressed that you actually view an opponent attacking you, and hit the air like you would normally. Then we practice it on normal people, AND IT WORKS!
As for Dim Mak, You havent seen alot in Martial Arts have you?

LOL, dude that's one of the best BS stories I've heard in forever. I miss getting the delusional stories from TMA guys sometimes.

You've got some "Sensei" or "Sifu" filling your head with crap. That's cool, lots of guys have been there. Then they wake up and come to people like us and realize how full of it they've been for so long. There Kata doesn't hold up because they've rarely actually been hit and don't know how to deal with it. They can't defend a takedown to save their lives, and they think some flicky TKD style kick or viscious Iron Hand strike is going to help them.

You think it all started with some one magical guy? That's the storybook version.

Explain to me then why the ancient greeks had Pankration. A submission fighting system that combined striking and grappling and was an olympic sport. Did they study with Bodhidarma too?

How about why the Lancashire English developed Catchascatchcan, a brutal submission wrestling system in it's own right? Did they study with Shaolin monks?

No. You've been listening to too many outdated PR campaigns.

An old training partner of mine just moved to AZ. Maybe I'll see if he can set something up to show you where you screwed up.

I started Fencing in 1991, though I haven't picked up a blade in two years.

Why is Boxing not on the list?
Wrestling?
Hockey? ;)
:eek:
I FORGOT FENCING!
I've been fencing for a while now, although I'm still pretty bad, it's fun.
I can't believe I forgot it counted!

EDIT:
Does fencing count?

Martial arts is useless this day in age a majority of the time in fights. To many crazy folks running around armed with alot more than sticks and stones.

Then you might prefer the form that I am practicing, Shorin Ryu or Xiaolin Wu. It was developed by the Okanawin people who had nothing but their hands and farm tools to defend themselves against Samurai. I prefer it because you defend yourself and stop the attacker without permanently damaging some one, which is usefull if you dont want to get arrested or killed. The Shihan I practice under is a 6th degree blackbelt in it, and holds multiple black belts in two other fighting styles. He is very cool.

Crap. I clicked none. Allthough. I'm not doing any at the moment. But if time permits me I would realy want to start again with Thay and Kick Boxing.

LOL, dude that's one of the best BS stories I've heard in forever. I miss getting the delusional stories from TMA guys sometimes.
Well, though I fully agree with your points, it actually is true that unarmed marital arts as we understand it today originated with Buddhists.

LOL, dude that's one of the best BS stories I've heard in forever. I miss getting the delusional stories from TMA guys sometimes.

You've got some "Sensei" or "Sifu" filling your head with crap. That's cool, lots of guys have been there. Then they wake up and come to people like us and realize how full of it they've been for so long. There Kata doesn't hold up because they've rarely actually been hit and don't know how to deal with it. They can't defend a takedown to save their lives, and they think some flicky TKD style kick or viscious Iron Hand strike is going to help them.

You think it all started with some one magical guy? That's the storybook version.

Explain to me then why the ancient greeks had Pankration. A submission fighting system that combined striking and grappling and was an olympic sport. Did they study with Bodhidarma too?

How about why the Lancashire English developed Catchascatchcan, a brutal submission wrestling system in it's own right? Did they study with Shaolin monks?

No. You've been listening to too many outdated PR campaigns.

An old training partner of mine just moved to AZ. Maybe I'll see if he can set something up to show you where you screwed up.

Here look at this picture, this is Mas Oyama, hes BS? Do you see his picture?
He killed three bulls, he choped off there horns and finished them with a strike to the head, I guess this is Bull Shit as well...
http://users.palouse.com/rb-adams/images/oyama1.gif

I started Fencing in 1991, though I haven't picked up a blade in two years.

Why is Boxing not on the list?
Wrestling?
Hockey? ;)
Boxing and wrestling have much more to do with actual fighting than most "martial arts." Fencing is also excellent because you train in an "alive" setting and you can develop excellent footwork.

Most of what people consider martial arts involve Jedi Knight wannabes that sit around meditating about the sound of the wind through the willows and learning cheerleading routines.

If some guy wanted a confrontation with me and informed me he was a black belt in karate or Take My Dough I would laugh and be confident that he was in for a whipping. Not like I haven't done it before.

LOL, dude that's one of the best BS stories I've heard in forever. I miss getting the delusional stories from TMA guys sometimes.

You've got some "Sensei" or "Sifu" filling your head with crap. That's cool, lots of guys have been there. Then they wake up and come to people like us and realize how full of it they've been for so long. There Kata doesn't hold up because they've rarely actually been hit and don't know how to deal with it. They can't defend a takedown to save their lives, and they think some flicky TKD style kick or viscious Iron Hand strike is going to help them.

You think it all started with some one magical guy? That's the storybook version.

Explain to me then why the ancient greeks had Pankration. A submission fighting system that combined striking and grappling and was an olympic sport. Did they study with Bodhidarma too?

How about why the Lancashire English developed Catchascatchcan, a brutal submission wrestling system in it's own right? Did they study with Shaolin monks?

No. You've been listening to too many outdated PR campaigns.

An old training partner of mine just moved to AZ. Maybe I'll see if he can set something up to show you where you screwed up.

Ah, I see who your talking about now, your talking about Shit Mcdojos, TKD schools mostly? Because all we do is hit each other in my school. Our styles Kenpo, my Senseis always bragging about the old hardcore days, when all they did was beat the shit out of each other. We broke like 4 Wooden Walls in our building from those days, LOL

Ah, heres a good Picture of Mas Oyama:
http://www.docklandsdojo.co.uk/graphics/mas_oyama/oyama_bull.jpg

i took tae kwon do for awhile...i stopped at senoir purple belt, which is 3 belts away from a black belt. i guess i was ok at first, but it seemed like as i got higher up, i got worse, and it was terrible for my self-esteem. plus my instructor was a major bastard.

Well, though I fully agree with your points, it actually is true that unarmed marital arts as we understand it today originated with Buddhists.
You miss my point. Hand to hand combat is as old as mankind. The idea that it all originated with one guy is ludicrous.

It's well proven that the Greeks had invented their own H2H methods long before anyone heard of Bodhidarma. Do a google on Pankration. You'll see what I mean.

You miss my point. Hand to hand combat is as old as mankind. The idea that it all originated with one guy is ludicrous.

It's well proven that the Greeks had invented their own H2H methods long before anyone heard of Bodhidarma. Do a google on Pankration. You'll see what I mean.

Well not really, they actually think that Martial Arts orginated before recorded time, but w/e.
Plus Bodhidharma is mainly ledgend, but that doesnt mean it probably has some truth in it.

Hey, Golden Coil! I found more bull shit:
http://www.skynet.com.pl/~karate/ushi.jpg

Fencing is also excellent because you train in an "alive" setting and you can develop excellent footwork.
Japanese fencing--kendō--is also in an "alive" setting, as you put it. Though I haven't tried fencing, from what I've watched, kendō footwork is actually quite a bit more difficult. I don't actually knowm however, because I only have personal experience with one. And we don't go around wearing no tights, neither. Our armour is serious, we need a little more than those skimpy things you fencers wear to keep it down to a headache and bruises. And though I get ridiculed for my hakama, I am extremely proud of it. It's their loss if they don't understand the elegance it bestows.

By the by, my kendō dōjō used to practise at another facility than its current one, but we were kicked out after we broke a wall...

Ah, I see who your talking about now, your talking about Shit Mcdojos, TKD schools mostly? Because all we do is hit each other in my school. Our styles Kenpo, my Senseis always bragging about the old hardcore days, when all they did was beat the shit out of each other. We broke like 4 Wooden Walls in our building from those days, LOL Do a search on Chuck Liddell. A pro Mixed martial arts fighter with a Kenpo background.

Even so, he started in collegiate wrestling and he trains in grappling to be well rounded.

Even the Japanese pro fighters (and there are many good ones) don't take Karate. They do an art called Shooto. It's Japanese for "learn fighting" and it's a blend of striking and grappling arts. Look up Mach Sakurai or a guy named Gomi.

In China these days, the rage is a martial art call San Shou. It's combination of a striking style similar to Muay Thai mixed in with some ground fighting skills.

Old, "Traditional" martial arts have been suffering from years of standardization and ornamentation. That's why even in the country they came from they're being supplanted.

Ah yes, but did you see Mas Oyama? Was that Bull Shit?

Here look at this picture, this is Mas Oyama, hes BS? Do you see his picture?
He killed three bulls, he choped off there horns and finished them with a strike to the head, I guess this is Bull Shit as well...
http://users.palouse.com/rb-adams/images/oyama1.gif
Look dude, Mas Oyama has a lot of crap stories around him as well.

I've heard from several sources that he was an accomplished fighter, and I don't doubt he was, but he was still just a man.

Besides, most of what passes for karate these days has little to do with what he was doing.

You miss my point. Hand to hand combat is as old as mankind. The idea that it all originated with one guy is ludicrous.
Oh, certainly. As I said, I fully agree.

Look dude, Mas Oyama has a lot of crap stories around him as well.

I've heard from several sources that he was an accomplished fighter, and I don't doubt he was, but he was still just a man.

Besides, most of what passes for karate these days has little to do with what he was doing.

Yes, but he still killed 3 Bulls and chopped off many of their horns. Thats an accomplishment, and a very good one for someone whos main training consisted of practicing Katas(or 'dancing'), up in a mountain for 3 Years.
(He did other forms of training, but I think that Katas was one of his main training foundations.)

Look dude, Mas Oyama has a lot of crap stories around him as well.

I've heard from several sources that he was an accomplished fighter, and I don't doubt he was, but he was still just a man.

Besides, most of what passes for karate these days has little to do with what he was doing.

Of course he was a still just a man, Im just trying to convince of you my art. Now, if you are gonna dis those Martial Artists who are cheap and go thier black belt from some 'sensei' who only wanted to suck their cash, go ahead, just dont diss the rest of us who train hard.

My sensei, is crazy. He about 50, once one of my other senseis, kicked him in the ribs with a full-on sidekick, and My Sensei just laughed and replied "That was great!" Another time, he read in some book, that if one could block an arrow, you were a master, if one could grab an arrow, you were a grandmaster. So he hired a professional Archer to shoot him, he was able to block it luckily, but still thats some funny stuff. LOL

Eh, to jump in.
For about 6 years I did "street fighting" in a sense. A bunch of freinds and I, and aquaintances, and anyone who wanted to join, would get together about once a month and beat the piss out of eachother.
I have extensive experiance in the actual fighting part, and I have taken on people with backgrounds in Karate, TKD, Wrestling, Judo, Kickboxing, and plenty of other things.
I've taken lessons (although few in number and breif, but from an actual teacher) in Muay Thai, Capoaia (spelling?), and TKD (free 1-day lesson, didn't like it).
I also spent 3 years wrestling.

in all seriousness, Khata's don't help in a real fight against skilled people. They do wonders in real-life situations where you're gonna be attacked, or something by like thugs or something. But in a one on one fight when both people know what they're doing, relying on Khata's is a bad idea. And that is what a TKD fighter told me.

Oh, and the guy who said you black out and the fight is over. I seriously think you need to go see a doctor, because blacking out at the start of physical exercise is not healthy.
Either that or you are making BS up to sound cool.
No one who actually can fight "blacks out, and it's all over, the other guy is on the ground" except psycho diabetics.

Although, "if it gets the guy's ass kicked, it's all good I guess."

Now, I want to get into Akido, formally perhaps, but I find time lacking for it lately.

I think of martial arts as unarmed fighting, and as having some sort of philosophical side to them.

well... martial arts isn't totally unarmed fighting. kendo is a martial art form that involves teh use of the Japanese sword (katana ). One form that is unarmed is karate. The actual kanji, Chinese/Japanese characters, means "empty hand."

I practice kendo myself.

Martial Arts is pretty much useless unless you are actually a good fighter... dunno which color belt that would be, because there really isn't supposed to be a green/blue/pink/brown with stripes of any of that crap...

Martial Arts is only good if you have practiced for years.
and its useless in a fight either way.

I think of martial arts as unarmed fighting, and as having some sort of philosophical side to them.

Ninjitsu is unarmed?
Boxing certainly is!

Fencing absolutely has a philosophical side to it. It's physical chess, much moreso than Shotokan Karate or Wrestling (the only other martial arts I've ever done). While there isn't a Tao of Fencing per se, there isn't one for Tae Kwon Do, either.

Now that I think of it, I'll try to get myself into Krav Maga... if I can find someone/somewhere that will teach me it.
If not, I'll see if the IDF is interested in a collage graguate who speaks Arabic as a Tank driver (Hopefully in a few years).

Eh, to jump in.
For about 6 years I did "street fighting" in a sense. A bunch of freinds and I, and aquaintances, and anyone who wanted to join, would get together about once a month and beat the piss out of eachother.
I have extensive experiance in the actual fighting part, and I have taken on people with backgrounds in Karate, TKD, Wrestling, Judo, Kickboxing, and plenty of other things.
I've taken lessons (although few in number and breif, but from an actual teacher) in Muay Thai, Capoaia (spelling?), and TKD (free 1-day lesson, didn't like it).
I also spent 3 years wrestling.

in all seriousness, Khata's don't help in a real fight against skilled people. They do wonders in real-life situations where you're gonna be attacked, or something by like thugs or something. But in a one on one fight when both people know what they're doing, relying on Khata's is a bad idea. And that is what a TKD fighter told me.

Oh, and the guy who said you black out and the fight is over. I seriously think you need to go see a doctor, because blacking out at the start of physical exercise is not healthy.
Either that or you are making BS up to sound cool.
No one who actually can fight "blacks out, and it's all over, the other guy is on the ground" except psycho diabetics.

Although, "if it gets the guy's ass kicked, it's all good I guess."

Now, I want to get into Akido, formally perhaps, but I find time lacking for it lately.

You dont understand what I said. Its difficult though, have you ever had a ball thrown at you, and the next moment your hands covered your face and your hands hurt? Thats what Im talking about, Reaction. One practices so much it becomes second nature and your body reacts with your form. Thats why if I get attacked I may kill my enemy, or I may disable him. I havent fully developed it yet, you need to practice it alot. But I have exiperenced it and I know it happens, plus, you wouldnt know shit about how my art works, so its not your place to try and say if it works or not, you spend 8 years in the martial arts and come back to me, we'll see if you have anything to say.
Also, Katas arent ment to be used as that form, parts of it our, but not the whole thing. Katas are made so one practices all of his attacks and blocks and etc. In one long, drawn-out, tiring activity, if you do A kata 20 times, you also do a block 20 times and that block is better because of it.

Boxing and wrestling have much more to do with actual fighting than most "martial arts." Fencing is also excellent because you train in an "alive" setting and you can develop excellent footwork.

Most of what people consider martial arts involve Jedi Knight wannabes that sit around meditating about the sound of the wind through the willows and learning cheerleading routines.

If some guy wanted a confrontation with me and informed me he was a black belt in karate or Take My Dough I would laugh and be confident that he was in for a whipping. Not like I haven't done it before.

That's pretty much my take on the Occidental Martial Arts, too.

Ayep. Too much rolling the d20. (Do kids still do that?)

well... martial arts isn't totally unarmed fighting. kendo is a martial art form that involves teh use of the Japanese sword (katana ).
No, katana are kenjutsu, kendō involves the use of shinai (bamboo sword) and bokken, also known as bokutō (wooden sword). The former is used against other people, and the former in kendō no kata. Though iaidō and iaijutsu, especially for those in the higher ranks, do involve skinken (live blades) at one point, but that is off-topic.

One form that is unarmed is karate. The actual kanji, Chinese/Japanese characters, means "empty hand."

I practice kendo myself.
Karatedō is not a form of kendō. Sometimes karatedō is used to supplement kendō, or so I've heard, but they are strictly separate arts/sports. And, just so you know, kanji is Japanese, not Chinese. Kanji was adopted from the Chinese writing system, but is not what the Chinese refer to their writing as. I don't what it actually is, and there are too many dialects to even make a standard, I'd wager.

Martial Arts is pretty much useless unless you are actually a good fighter... dunno which color belt that would be, because there really isn't supposed to be a green/blue/pink/brown with stripes of any of that crap...

Martial Arts is only good if you have practiced for years.
and its useless in a fight either way.

You could learn the skills from a few weeks under a competent Sensei to easily defend and defeat anyone who has never trained. The first things you learn is how to block and reverse the simple blows that a normal person would use.

Also, to all of you who are arguing about BS and first masters, you obviously dont know much about any type of real martial arts, because every one of them teaches at least these basic things that you seem to be lacking on here, honor, respect, discipline, and control. Learn these first things and then try to argue who was the first in a certain style.

Martial Arts is pretty much useless unless you are actually a good fighter... dunno which color belt that would be, because there really isn't supposed to be a green/blue/pink/brown with stripes of any of that crap...

Martial Arts is only good if you have practiced for years.
and its useless in a fight either way.

No its not, Battle and Sparring are two different things my friend, a good fighter will die on the street, a warrior will kill on the street.

Martial Arts is pretty much useless unless you are actually a good fighter... dunno which color belt that would be, because there really isn't supposed to be a green/blue/pink/brown with stripes of any of that crap...

Martial Arts is only good if you have practiced for years.
and its useless in a fight either way.

I totally agree with you about the belts. When martial arts were imported into Western countries like America, they commercialized the art. The belts are only there to steal your money. Nowadays, they create more and more different belts, it's crazy. You get one belt and the next thing you know, you have to pay for another belt!!! It's exactly the same except there's a stripe on it!

I don't agree with martial arts being useless, though. A quick flip of a sword could be the end of fight, anyday.

I totally agree with you about the belts. When martial arts were imported into Western countries like America, they commercialized the art. The belts are only there to steal your money. Nowadays, they create more and more different belts, it's crazy. You get one belt and the next thing you know, you have to pay for another belt!!! It's exactly the same except there's a stripe on it!
Belts are superficial, in my opinion. There are no "belts" in kendō, though there are occasionally markings that someone is a high rank, but everyone is pretty much left at discerning for themselves what the level of their opponent is, and who the sensei pits them against.

I totally agree with you about the belts. When martial arts were imported into Western countries like America, they commercialized the art. The belts are only there to steal your money. Nowadays, they create more and more different belts, it's crazy. You get one belt and the next thing you know, you have to pay for another belt!!! It's exactly the same except there's a stripe on it!

I don't agree with martial arts being useless, though. A quick flip of a sword could be the end of fight, anyday.

Your sorta correct, Belts work well, in reason. But many Dojos do use them excessivly. Belts began in Judo, when the Grandmaster would walk into the dojo and throw someone on their back to test them, occasionally, he would throw a beginner on his back and hurt him, so he made the belt system so he could throw beginners lightly and advanced people hard.

No, katana are kenjutsu, kendō involves the use of shinai (bamboo sword) and bokken, also known as bokutō (wooden sword). The former is used against other people, and the former in kendō no kata. Though iaidō and iaijutsu, especially for those in the higher ranks, do involve skinken (live blades) at one point, but that is off-topic.


Karatedō is not a form of kendō. Sometimes karatedō is used to supplement kendō, or so I've heard, but they are strictly separate arts/sports. And, just so you know, kanji is Japanese, not Chinese. Kanji was adopted from the Chinese writing system, but is not what the Chinese refer to their writing as. I don't what it actually is, and there are too many dialects to even make a standard, I'd wager.

actually, the japanese characters for kanji is "Chinese word." The first character is, pronounced in Chinese, "Han" which means Chinese (kinda like Han people or Han dynasty)

I meant I practice kendo, as a response to the poll cuz i selected other.

I am currently studying Tai Chi Chuan. Next fall when my NROTC starts I will begin my enrollment in the Marine Corps. Martial Arts Training Program, which is far more indepth than stardard Hand-to-Hand combat training. As I understand it the Martial Arts Program uses a belt system very similar to Karate, but borrows heavily from other eastern arts such as TKD and Kung Fu. Hopefully I will be able to advance far enough as a weekend warrior, and without it interfering too much in my studies.

:eek:
I FORGOT FENCING!
I've been fencing for a while now, although I'm still pretty bad, it's fun.
I can't believe I forgot it counted!

EDIT:
Does fencing count?

Only if you're not discriminatory against Occidentals. ;)

There were NO western MAs in the poll:
Boxing
Wrestling
Fencing
Jeet Kune Do
Savate
Caporea
SCA Fencing (*so* not USFA!)

I currently am studying Tai Chi Chuan. Next fall when my NROTC starts I will begin my enrollment in the Marine Corps. Martial Arts Training Program, which is far more indepth than stardard Hand-to-Hand combat training. As I understand it the Martial Arts Program uses a belt system very similar to Karate, but borrows heavily from other eastern arts such as TKD and Kung Fu. Hopefully I will be able to advance far enough as a weekend warrior, and without it interfering too much in my studies.

A great art, one day you will be able to kill with it.

actually, the japanese characters for kanji is "Chinese word." The first character is, pronounced in Chinese, "Han" which means Chinese (kinda like Han people or Han dynasty)
Yes, but I'm pretty sure that the Chinese do not refer to their own iconography as kanji. I could be wrong, since I don't know this for a fact, but I'm pretty sure that I'm right.

Here listen to this This is a good speech, by a true Warrior:
http://www.pattonhq.com/sounds/scott.au

Well... Chinese characters are referred to by the Chinese nowadays as either "Han ji (Kanji)" or "Ganji." Hanji (please excuse my poor pronunciation) is the long form or "original" modern characters. Ganji is the symplified version that the People's Repubic of China is trying to create.

Here listen to this This is a good speech, by a true Warrior:
http://www.pattonhq.com/sounds/scott.au
Who was that, now? I think he had a difficult childhood...and might've found the Korean and Viet Nam Wars to be interesting. He would function very well in a formican society however. Ants are t3h l33t 0wnz0rz, by the by!

Well... Chinese characters are referred to by the Chinese nowadays as either "Han ji (Kanji)" or "Ganji." Hanji (please excuse my poor pronunciation) is the long form or "original" modern characters. Ganji is the symplified version that the People's Repubic of China is trying to create.
Ok, I believe I have been proven wrong. My forte is Japan--I know very little about China except in how it relates to Japan.

I'm a green-belt/blue-line in Tae Kwon Do, and just for fun I thought it'd be interesting to see if anyone else here practices a marital art. I'll have a poll in a sec.

Martial arts is the best defense agains:

"You need a gun to defend yourself and your home."

If you practice enough you will know what to do if someone has a gun. Otherwise your home is silly, because you will always have the home court advantage.

BTW: 1.5 years of Moto-Kwan (offset of Tae-Kwan) Chinna (sp) Jo-Staff Technique 1 year of Iato sword technique and philosophy.

Only if you're not discriminatory against Occidentals. ;)

There were NO western MAs in the poll:
Boxing
Wrestling
Fencing
Jeet Kune Do
Savate
Caporea
SCA Fencing (*so* not USFA!)

Boxing came from Thai Boxing.

Jeet Kune Do was developed by a Chinese guy using Eastren fighting techniques.

Who was that, now? I think he had a difficult childhood...and might've found the Korean and Viet Nam Wars to be interesting. He would function very well in a formican society however. Ants are t3h l33t 0wnz0rz, by the by!

That Was Patton, he died before he saw those wars sadly. He was one of the greatest WWII Generals around.

1 year of Iato sword technique and philosophy.
Do you mean "iaidō"? Or perhaps "use of iaitō"? Or is that something entirely different?

I've never seen martial arts leap fifteen feet through the air and stop a .45 round in midflight, then disarm the shooter, so in my opinion, a gun will always hold the upper hand against a martial art, but martial arts isn't about that, its learning yourself, bettering yourself

Currently studying judo in preparation for sambo. In real life, I use a combination of judo with some kicks and punches. It works quite well on people who think they're all cool and tough- when they do the annoying thing when they get in your face, give 'em an o soto gari, since they're already pretty close, then use the downward force from the reap to aid in the plexus punch.

Boxing came from Thai Boxing.

Jeet Kune Do was developed by a Chinese guy using Eastren fighting techniques.

I'm sure that's news to the guys in Athens back in 776 BC. :rolleyes:

Jeet Kune Do was developed by Bruce Lee in America. That makes it an Occidental Martial Art.

Do you mean "iaidō"? Or perhaps "use of iaitō"? Or is that something entirely different?

I appologize, its not iaito; that was my mistake.

It would better be described as "basic" sword technique and philosophy. I can't classify it as anything other than that.

And to that guy who considered martial arts to be jumping up and catching that .45 round...

By knowing what to do, it'll be to comply and take the best course of action at the time. Movies destroy up the notions of true martial arts; my teacher says when faced with a gun, comply with them. The thing is, you'll be able to stay calm and deal with the demands. Only IF there is a CLEAR advantage do you do anything. Otherwise stay calm.

Based on the original topic and the subsequential replies after it I figured that I will add something as well. I have been studying Taekwondo for over 10 years and have studied some karate and Shorinji Kempo (a Japanese variation of Chinese Kempo I believe) in Japan as well. Some people here seem to think of TKD as a weak martial art, but in theory all martial arts can be weak or strong. It's never the art itself that separates us but the skill of the person who is studying. I would hate to meet a member of the South Korean military (TKD) who is much more trained nor would I like to ever meet someone on the street who has been in dozens of fights and has learned his or her own fighting style. Again, it's always about the person's skill and attributes more then fighting styles. I've seen wrestlers who can destroy people when they're up close, but at the same time I have also seen those wrestlers on the ground after underestimating someone's martial skill.

Regarding the American aspect on martial arts, I 100% agree that it has become heavily commercialized and that most schools just give out belts for money (the school where I train has slowly regressed to that in the last five years due to budget issues). Anyone who can get a black belt in 1-2 years is not getting true training despite the fact that they seem to believe otherwise. Personally, I think American schools are almost transforming martial arts into a get rich scheme while those studying there become dillusional in their belief that the limited training will help them for life. I used to think that way myself until a trip to Japan became a hard case of reality when I was on the ground bleeding from a much superior opponent.

Lastly, everyone seems to be saying about how they can beat each other up and know how to kill now, but I take solace in the greatest thing I have achieved while studying martial arts - I have never been in a straight up fight because my training has taught me how to resolve issues peacefully before even considering physical resolutions. It's that point that seems to be missing from a lot of schools these days because everyone seems concerned about how to kill a person and learn techniques just to hurt people. Remember the best trained practiitioners are always the ones who never go looking for fights; they are much wiser for that and can see the true beauty of their art and of what is around them.

9 years of karate, 1/2 year kung fu, for the people that say but I have a gun or a sword, do you carry those on you when you are walking down the street or go to a bar, if you do.... enjoy prison mate

I appologize, its not iaito; that was my mistake.

It would better be described as "basic" sword technique and philosophy. I can't classify it as anything other than that.


Iaido, Gnostikos? You've trained in Iaido? How long? Who's your teacher, how long have they been in the art? How long did it take you to find a dojo/sensei in that art? Please, tell me as much as you can!

I looked for Five years after the one Iaido/Kendo dojo we had locally closed down; nothing. Well, nothing that didn't cost 400$ a month. After a mere 2 years, I was stranded in my teachings and I've been eager to start again. To this day I watch Zatoichi movies and weep ;).

And Zekhaust, what nation is this "basic" sword style derived from? Japanese, Korean, Chinese, or European styles? What sword type do you use? What are you learning, that kind of thing. Assume I am a fairly knowledgable beginner. I appreciate anything you could contribute.

9 years of karate, 1/2 year kung fu, for the people that say but I have a gun or a sword, do you carry those on you when you are walking down the street or go to a bar, if you do.... enjoy prison mate

Not at all. I can carry my gun on any street I want to. I can also carry it into a bar, so long as I am seated in the restaurant area and am not drinking.

Not at all. I can carry my gun on any street I want to. I can also carry it into a bar, so long as I am seated in the restaurant area and am not drinking.
Well im glad im not in your country, out of interest what country are you in so I will never go there.

Boxing came from Thai Boxing.
Bull. Boxing is thousands of years old and was already pratctised in pre Roman times.

Well im glad im not in your country, out of interest what country are you in so I will never go there.

The United States. And I'm sorry that you feel that way.

The United States. And I'm sorry that you feel that way.
:D
My dad always carried weaponry with him. I guess he had a reason, cause he had a fair bit of money, but it always seemed like a bit of overkill. He almost always had at least a knife on his person...

That was a pointless bit of reminiscing. Anyway, on with the topic.

The United States. And I'm sorry that you feel that way.
Is that the law across the US or is it a state thing?

I studied Aikido on Okinawa many years ago.

Is that the law across the US or is it a state thing?
It varies by State. Many states in the US now have concealed carry laws, which allow citizens who have taken an intensive course in law and gun safety, and who have successfully passed a thorough background check to carry a weapon concealed beneath their clothing. In States where this has become legal, the crime rate has dropped precipitiously. Even criminals, who are not usually noted for their intellect, don't relish the idea that some lil ole lady might take issue with them stealing her pocketbook, pull out her .45 cal. pistol, and blow their sorry ass away. :D

Fencing can't count as a martial art. It's a great sport, yes, and loads of fun, good for your reflexes, great for hand-eye coordination, but the weight of the weapon is in no way representative of a real rapier. If one were to use a rapier as one uses a foil or epee, his/her arm would tire very quickly. The way a foil/epee is held takes advantage of its light weight. A real sword is several times heavier. The third type of fencing sword, the sabre, is much to light to be a real slashing weapon. The edge wouldn't cut through much because there's no weight or steel behind it.

As much as I love fencing, I can't call it a martial art. The weapons are just too removed from their predecessors/inspirations that the actual style learned in fencing wouldn't carry over to a real-life situation. Purely sport, but a great one. I reccomend it to all of you.

Fencing can't count as a martial art. It's a great sport, yes, and loads of fun, good for your reflexes, great for hand-eye coordination, but the weight of the weapon is in no way representative of a real rapier. If one were to use a rapier as one uses a foil or epee, his/her arm would tire very quickly. The way a foil/epee is held takes advantage of its light weight. A real sword is several times heavier. The third type of fencing sword, the sabre, is much to light to be a real slashing weapon. The edge wouldn't cut through much because there's no weight or steel behind it.

As much as I love fencing, I can't call it a martial art. The weapons are just too removed from their predecessors/inspirations that the actual style learned in fencing wouldn't carry over to a real-life situation. Purely sport, but a great one. I reccomend it to all of you.
As do I. Great for your sense of balance and for flexibility. :)

Is that the law across the US or is it a state thing?

Sadly, the US lacks common gun laws.
I'm a big proponent that a gun license should be just like a driver's license -- different levels for different endoresements, good in all states.
In return, firearms are registered and only the federal gov't can make laws regarding them (just like cars).
This to me would be saner, would take a lot of guess work out of law enforcement, and allow for better law enforcement.

If you're interested, check out: http://www.packing.org/states.jsp

I live in Connecticut. My license is considered good in 12 other states at this time. Unfortunately, NONE of them is a border state. Go figure.

Fencing can't count as a martial art. It's a great sport, yes, and loads of fun, good for your reflexes, great for hand-eye coordination, but the weight of the weapon is in no way representative of a real rapier. If one were to use a rapier as one uses a foil or epee, his/her arm would tire very quickly. The way a foil/epee is held takes advantage of its light weight. A real sword is several times heavier. The third type of fencing sword, the sabre, is much to light to be a real slashing weapon. The edge wouldn't cut through much because there's no weight or steel behind it.

As much as I love fencing, I can't call it a martial art. The weapons are just too removed from their predecessors/inspirations that the actual style learned in fencing wouldn't carry over to a real-life situation. Purely sport, but a great one. I reccomend it to all of you.

IMHO, any martial art that doesn't involve gunpowder is now a sport.

IMHO, any martial art that doesn't involve gunpowder is now a sport.
Sorry, but I don't agree. :)

It varies by State. Many states in the US now have concealed carry laws, which allow citizens who have taken an intensive course in law and gun safety, and who have successfully passed a thorough background check to carry a weapon concealed beneath their clothing. In States where this has become legal, the crime rate has dropped precipitiously. Even criminals, who are not usually noted for their intellect, don't relish the idea that some lil ole lady might take issue with them stealing her pocketbook, pull out her .45 cal. pistol, and blow their sorry ass away. :D
That would teach em :D
now back to the topic..... um my art is better then yours because I know this guy who's uncles step son's mates girl friend bent a spoon with her mind.

Too young for marital arts, too unfit for martial arts.

Perfectly able to be amused at apt typos though.

^.^
Started when I was 9 ... so I dont know what you are talking about to young

Anyways judo and Karate(2nd degree blackbelt)

Could keyboard warrioring count as a martial art these days btw?

Sorry, but I don't agree. :)

That's fair. That's why it was In My Humble Opinion. :)

Could keyboard warrioring count as a martial art these days btw?
Depends upon how long each keyboard lasts. :)

My main study is Wing Chun Kung Fu(of the Yip Man Lineage).
I have in the past studied JuiJitsu(Brazilian, Gracie and Muchado)
Muay Thai
Savate
A little Arnis
Espada y Daga
Escrima
Pencak Silat
I have tained to compliment my WIng Chun in Chin Na, and quick wrestling.
I have Boxxed(Western) since I was sixteen(I am 29 now).
I want to comment on a number of things.
1.Kung Fu covers a wide variety of things--that exceed well beyond fighting arts--someones cooking skill could be called their "Kung Fu".
2.Any instructor who tells you he will teach you how to deal with a gun and the first lesson is not "do what the man says-style", the second lesson "run your ass off--style" is an inept fool with no real street fighting experience.
A gun is immediate death--no block, no punch no anything your body has can protect you from a bullet--you should only be taught to engage in combat an armed attacker if you have no other option. This is at a point in Martial traing where you have reached a level where your instructor is teaching you moves-kata-tricks-what have that serve only in killing and crippling an opponent.
One does not subdue someone with a knife or a gun--you kill them.
If you are not commited to ending the life of your attacker you should defer to them and hope for the best.
3. My first year of serious Wing Chun training I had the pleasure of full contact bare knuckled no holds barred match with 1st don-degree whatever the popular title is now --of Tae kwon do(taught under Master Shin from Korea who taught in Grosse point MI, it is my understanding he is one of the best in the united states.)
I will leave long story short--I am thoroughly unimpressed by Tae know do.
A kick in the ribs and a swollen ankle are not going to stop an angry aggressor. My experience with it left me believing it is severly lacking.
4. Someone said that ground fighting is stupid.
I submit that I can go toe to toe with any stand up fighter on this board, take them to the ground and break threee bones before they have me bleeding.
If one examines the fundamentals of Close quater combat one finds that ground fighting is an absolute requirement for a proficient fighter--which is why every military in the world teaches ground fighting techniques to their soldiers. From the Russian Spetnas to the Brittish SAS, the IDF and the FBI.
The mistake people make is thinking that a single range(style is incorrect terminology for his concept) makes them an effective fighter.
In my years of training I have had the pleasure of sparring against Army Rangers and Navy SEALS. I have assited in close quater combat training demonstrations with Local and Federal LAw Enforcement Agencies. All these groups utilize ground fighting strategies.

Anyway, I am surprised to see many people here have studied one thing or another-- no matter what it is you do study, take it seriously and practice consistantly and you will get good results. As well a true Martial Artist should never disrespect the efforts of a fellow Martial artist regardless of any rivalry of paticular styles.

Martial Art--Marksmenship is also a Martial Art--Martial(Literally:WAR)
Just my two cents.

I don't know karate, but I know karazy.

That's fair. That's why it was In My Humble Opinion. :)
That has to be the most civil set of posts I have ever seen im in shock and awe

Jr. High - 2 years Myo Sim
College: 2 years Tae Kwon Do, 2 years SCA fencing, 6 months USFA Fencing
Japan: 3 months Kendo, 1 1/2 years naginata
Currently: none

And a few notes:

As has been pointed out, western boxing originates with the Greeks.

The Chinese wushu arts predate Bodhidharma by several centuries. However he was important in the development of Shaolin style.
http://cclib.nsu.ru/projects/satbi/satbi-e/martart/wushu/wsstory.html

Most modern martial arts are shadow forms, even in their countries of origin and many western schools of Asian arts are BS. Not all, just a large percent.

Kata does have value, but you do need sparring practice to balance.

If anyone tells you they are studying ninjutsu, laugh in their face. It is a lost art. The closest thing to ninjutsu that exists today is a guy here in Japan (whose name I have forgotten at the moment) who trained briefly under the last semi-properly trained ninja over 50 years ago.

Originally, there was no belt system for MAs in Japan.
Currently, some schools use them and others do not. All schools that do use them have much simpler systems, AFAIK. Students instead progress through kyu and then dan.

There are a very few people who still practice the koryu (old, classical schools).
http://www.koryu.com/

That has to be the most civil set of posts I have ever seen im in shock and awe
SEE? We CAN be civil to one another on here, contrary to popular belief! :D

That has to be the most civil set of posts I have ever seen im in shock and awe
:eek:
No flames?

THE END IS NIGH!!

:eek:
No flames?

THE END IS NIGH!!
Hehehe! Perhaps so, although stranger things HAVE happened. :)

SEE? We CAN be civil to one another on here, contrary to popular belief! :D
NO WE CANT!!! YOUR GROUP EATS BABIES!!!

Lol just kidding ... yup its nice :)

NO WE CANT!!! YOUR GROUP EATS BABIES!!!

Lol just kidding ... yup its nice :)
Oh yeah??? Well YOUR group goes Granny-dippin'! :D

I began a mixed style training, including kung fu, bagua, and aikido about 2 years ago. Due to money constraints I had to drop out of the class, but my new job should take care of that.

My instructors were all about "soft style" fighting, which depends on fluid movements and ultra quick and precise hits in order to outperform "hard style" fighting, like tae kwon do or karate. We learned more about deflecting and, while doing so, breaking numerous limbs, than I knew what to do with. And I was fairly low level.

NO WE CANT!!! YOUR GROUP EATS BABIES!!!
Yeah...
So? What's your point?
:D

My instructors were all about "soft style" fighting, which depends on fluid movements and ultra quick and precise hits in order to outperform "hard style" fighting, like tae kwon do or karate. We learned more about deflecting and, while doing so, breaking numerous limbs, than I knew what to do with. And I was fairly low level.
I believe you. My trainer for Aikido on Okinawa gave the appearance of being able to control opponents with just a touch. I only wish I had been able to get more than just 6 months of training in it.

Yeah...
So? What's your point?
:D
Trying to start a fight :p its not working LOL

What happened to talking about martial arts? :confused:

Civil-ness and baby-eating. :headbang:

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Ground Grappling.

Learning from my brother (highest ranking in Malaysia). Still no belt. :p My brother don't rank me.

But I don't have passion for martial arts. Not yet anyways. Rather just more for self-defence.

Heck. If I get into a real fight, my style of fighting would be ear-biting. Eye gouging, mouth hooking, armbars and Chokes.

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Ground Grappling.

Learning from my brother (highest ranking in Malaysia). Still no belt. :p My brother don't rank me.

But I don't have passion for martial arts. Not yet anyways. Rather just more for self-defence.

Heck. If I get into a real fight, my style of fighting would be ear-biting. Eye gouging, mouth hooking, armbars and Chokes.
Good old-fashioned street-fighting! I hear ya!

However, a good combatant will always look for a weapon first ... ANY weapon ... rather than rely on unarmed combat.

Anyway, I am surprised to see many people here have studied one thing or another-- no matter what it is you do study, take it seriously and practice consistantly and you will get good results. As well a true Martial Artist should never disrespect the efforts of a fellow Martial artist regardless of any rivalry of paticular styles.

well said

well said

Seconded; 'cept for ninjas ;). Ninjas are only to be pitied.

"Go! Go, my vast faceless horde of disposable minions!"

"I hate ninjas, they're eveywhere."

"Oh god, I think I hit a ninja!" "Drive on, its not like you hit a Collie or something."

Seconded; 'cept for ninjas ;). Ninjas are only to be pitied.

"Go! Go, my vast faceless horde of disposable minions!"

"I hate ninjas, they're eveywhere."

"Oh god, I think I hit a ninja!" "Drive on, its not like you hit a Collie or something."
:D

Good old-fashioned street-fighting! I hear ya!

However, a good combatant will always look for a weapon first ... ANY weapon ... rather than rely on unarmed combat.

Definitely... heck I tend to carry my swiss knife around (it's part of my keys). But it's mostly for fixing stuff especially computers and occasionally things falling out of my car. :D *Grumble.. Stupid Dashboard*

But pulling out a weapon can go both ways. I prefer to fight someone hand to hand.. Than weapon to weapon.

But running is always the best option.

Texas CCL, my best friend.

Anyways, ya'll like physical stuff that tests ya, try bulldogging, its alot of fun, ya'll should enjoy it!

I'm a red belt in TKD. But I had to quit because of school - too much of it.

Good old-fashioned street-fighting! I hear ya!

However, a good combatant will always look for a weapon first ... ANY weapon ... rather than rely on unarmed combat.
Heh, I remember when I was a kid, maybe thirteen or fourteen.
I went to breakfast with a friend of my dads.
As soon as he sat down he looked for all the exits, then he removed the top from the salt shaker.

I asked "Why did you do that?"
He replied "So he wont be able to see."
I asked "Who?"
He replied "Whoever I want."

While he sounds a little paranoid--to this day, I take the top off the salt shaker(when there is one).
Just thought it was a funny story.

Martial Arts is both a very easy business and a very difficult one.

On one hand, all you do is pass on your knowledge and instruct classes by routine, add in a little creativity, and voila you are done. On the other hand, there is a low chance that you will get good students, which means that they come, stay for a few months or a year or two, then leave bcause they 'lost passion' or are 'swamped with work.' Martial Arts (in this case Tae Kwon Do) becomes another sport, another entry to the list of things that make them busy and thus victimized, and another bragging claim for when they get a black belt in 2 years.

Students, especially children, are usually not built for the sport, and display little motivation (partly because their parents force them to do it, and partly because they suck) towards something that is really quite interesting. So in this situation, to protect business, you hand out free belts and have a 3 black belts produced a year. Fantastic! Now this child can say "I'm a black belt!" If I had a nickel for every person like that I encountered in my life...

To sum it up, either get a lot of horrible students and start dispensing belts, or else charge ridiculous prices for lessons. But I guess it all depends on luck and location...

I go to a Tae Kwon Do gym that has, in the past 7 years, yielded 5 black belts (1 poom) which I think is reasonable, considering that they are all very decent (though no match for Koreans). I agree that probably 95%+ American gyms suck, but this one i very effective for those that want to learn. What we learn is a mix between kickboxing, grappling, Tae Kwon Do, Hap Ki Do, energy control (KI) and weapons training...in other words we run the gamut.

did aikido for 7 years.....trained in knife fighting twice a week for 5 years with my uncle......and started caporia (very very fun btw)......

Hap Ki Do, energy control (KI) and weapons training...in other words we run the gamut.
I disagree with most of what you said about the business.
However, I do like Hap Ki Do. It is the only Korean art i have seen that has truly impressed me. Talk about delivering pain-wow.
I have one for if you study Hap.
My instructor a few years ago had studied Hap, nowhe was recounting an incident.

Appearently he and his instructor were out getting a bite.
Both of these men are very small in stature.
When two much larger men begin to 'bother' them.
His instructor(A Korean National) told him to stand back and watch.
He said his instructor said this will be a lesson. No matter what this guy does I am going to strike his groin. If he punches, I will strike his groin, kick, blocks dodges you get the idea.
SO long story short the instructor and this guy go rolling down a flight of stairs--big man screaming in pain--Little Hap Ki Do instructor firmly holding on to the man's testicles all the way down.

He showed me video of his Hap Ki DO instructor at a police conference.
He used to lie to his student volunteers(always senior students for saftey)
So that he would have voluteers for the really painful moves.
Perhaps you know the throw I am about to describe--I dont know the name in Hap Ki DO.
Strike at the lower gate,
Fingers into the collar bone area
Grab collar bone
foot into the stomach
roll back flipping the person over--done correctly breaking the collar bone--extremely painful either way.(this was one he always lied about to get volunteers).

did aikido for 7 years.....trained in knife fighting twice a week for 5 years with my uncle......and started caporia (very very fun btw)......

Man. Seeing people do Caporia looks cool. But looks like you need to be proficient in break dancing. Which I'm stiff as a board. Plus it looks more impressive than actually look like it can do any damage.

Man. Seeing people do Caporia looks cool. But looks like you need to be proficient in break dancing. Which I'm stiff as a board. Plus it looks more impressive than actually look like it can do any damage.
So?
It's flashy and cool!
:D

IMO, Grapplings always the supirior martial art. Hence winning all MMA competitions all the time. Compared to the rest. But not effecient going against more than one.

So Mixed Martial Art (MMA) always does the trick better.

But fighting more than one person is always a huge disadvantage.

Always run unless your surrounded. Learn the "Thousand step maneuvere" :D

So?
It's flashy and cool!
:D

Yes it is. :)

Boxing came from Thai Boxing.

Jeet Kune Do was developed by a Chinese guy using Eastren fighting techniques.
Incorrect. Boxing developed out of the pugilistic style used in old London.

Jeet Kune Do started as Bruce Lee combining Wing Chun hands with boxing footwork. Then adding other stuff as he went.

Did Kyokushinkai Karate for a few years.

I don't know karate, but I know karazy.
Thank you, James Brown!

Hardest working man in show biz.

Did Kyokushinkai Karate for a few years.
Good style. In my opinion, the only style of Karate worth learning.

Klington is one of these "I can't fight you, I might seriously hurt you or kill you" guys.

Again, heard all this crap before. Believe me, they won't.

If one examines the fundamentals of Close quater combat one finds that ground fighting is an absolute requirement for a proficient fighter--which is why every military in the world teaches ground fighting techniques to their soldiers. From the Russian Spetnas to the Brittish SAS, the IDF and the FBI.
The mistake people make is thinking that a single range(style is incorrect terminology for his concept) makes them an effective fighter.
In my years of training I have had the pleasure of sparring against Army Rangers and Navy SEALS. I have assited in close quater combat training demonstrations with Local and Federal LAw Enforcement Agencies. All these groups utilize ground fighting strategies.

Anyway, I am surprised to see many people here have studied one thing or another-- no matter what it is you do study, take it seriously and practice consistantly and you will get good results. As well a true Martial Artist should never disrespect the efforts of a fellow Martial artist regardless of any rivalry of paticular styles.

Martial Art--Marksmenship is also a Martial Art--Martial(Literally:WAR)
Just my two cents.
My head teacher and school founder is a retired SEAL who spent most of his career in the SEAL Counter-Terrorist team.

He chose the Jun Fan, Kali/Escrima, Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu-jutsu, and Combat Submission Wrestling curriculum because he believed it was the best combination for practical self defense. Covers all ranges of fighting from striking to the ground and all in between.

He said they used to get tons of MA instructors at the Teams trying to get government contracts. Guys from just about every style you can imagine, so he was exposed to a lot. He's said before that 90% of basic military H2H combatives are crap.

Tai Chi

I am currently studying Tai Chi Chuan. Next fall when my NROTC starts I will begin my enrollment in the Marine Corps. Martial Arts Training Program, which is far more indepth than stardard Hand-to-Hand combat training. As I understand it the Martial Arts Program uses a belt system very similar to Karate, but borrows heavily from other eastern arts such as TKD and Kung Fu. Hopefully I will be able to advance far enough as a weekend warrior, and without it interfering too much in my studies.

My school is near Quantico where MCMAP was developed. We have Marines train there all the time.

Don't bother with the Tai Chi. Seriously. Most of what the MCMAP guys are using is coming from Muay Thai, BJJ, and some Kali (for the knife work).

Take a class in any one of those and believe me you will be light years ahead of the rest of the class when you take MCMAP.

Taking a class in anything else and they'll have to "de-program" you.

I've never been in a fight and wouldn't mind to never be in one.

YAY pacifists!

Studied Wado-Ryu Karate for nine years. Worked my way up through the junior grades, then through adult levels but sadly stopped on Senior Brown for my High School exams (still 3 away from black). Never really got back into it after that.

My brother and I were Scottish Kata Pairs champions at one point.

However, a good combatant will always look for a weapon first ... ANY weapon ... rather than rely on unarmed combat.And s/he'll keep looking for weapons until s/he ends up with SMG/shotgun/AR or something heavier.

In the military, I was thinking perhaps it would be interesting to take up some martial art. But then I figured I'd be spending most of the next 9 months carrying an assault rifle so it's a bit pointless.

3 years in a Mc Dojo, want to learn thai boxing, ninjutsu, and wushu.

hehe, kickass fighting style mixed together XD

learning nunchaku atm...

I studied Kendo for a year and a half, and enjoyed it a lot. However, because i moved house, i had to give up training with a teacher/sensei,which of course never helps. But after i moved, i came across a school of medieval (which is to say in the loosest term 'European') swordsmanship, wrestling, quarter staff, half staff and boxing. Although not as popular as Asian fighting styles, the history, forms and styles are just as varied and effective. I have studied some of the actual and reproduced medieval texts, as well as more modern sources such as those listed below. I also studies with some study groups, such as those at the Royal Armouries in Leeds. For those interested look up some sources like Johannes Lichtenauer, Mark Rector (His translation of Talhoffer and Ott is very good), John Clements (although this author is subject to much controversy), and Terry Brown (as a introduction to English martial arts and the history this book is very good). It has to be said i only study it for its history and for keeping fit, not for practical use (You can't carry a sword these days...mores the pity...) :D

I studied Kendo for a year and a half, and enjoyed it a lot. However, because i moved house, i had to give up training with a teacher/sensei,which of course never helps. But after i moved, i came across a school of medieval (which is to say in the loosest term 'European') swordsmanship, wrestling, quarter staff, half staff and boxing. Although not as popular as Asian fighting styles, the history, forms and styles are just as varied and effective. I have studied some of the actual and reproduced medieval texts, as well as more modern sources such as those listed below. I also studies with some study groups, such as those at the Royal Armouries in Leeds. For those interested look up some sources like Johannes Lichtenauer, Mark Rector (His translation of Talhoffer and Ott is very good), John Clements (although this author is subject to much controversy), and Terry Brown (as a introduction to English martial arts and the history this book is very good). It has to be said i only study it for its history and for keeping fit, not for practical use (You can't carry a sword these days...mores the pity...) :D
Sounds interesting if only from a historical perspective.

I've seen Talhoffers book. Much of the dagger work is very similar to Kali.

Than you no nothing about Martial Arts, sadly. All you just said, has nothing to do with the Martial Arts. Lemme explain.

The Martial Arts is pure repetition, you practice a technique thousands of times, then it becomes your reaction, no thinking, no moves. Its just there, you get attacked, you black out, and the next second you see a guy on the ground and you remember bits and pieces of the fight. Not all of it, because it was a reaction, you didnt even think about it, it was. Thats all. Secondly, its called an 'art' because it has no rules. 'Martial' means war, you are learning the Art of War, the way. It is not generic, it is an art.

So what your saying is It's like a guy assults you, and the next thing you know is he's dead?

Tai Chi


Thats not martial arts, thats some exerise to get your enegry flowing or balenced or something....

Than you no nothing about Martial Arts, sadly. All you just said, has nothing to do with the Martial Arts. Lemme explain.

The Martial Arts is pure repetition, you practice a technique thousands of times, then it becomes your reaction, no thinking, no moves. Its just there, you get attacked, you black out, and the next second you see a guy on the ground and you remember bits and pieces of the fight. Not all of it, because it was a reaction, you didnt even think about it, it was. Thats all. Secondly, its called an 'art' because it has no rules. 'Martial' means war, you are learning the Art of War, the way. It is not generic, it is an art.

black out? screw that - i like to savour the carnage. better when i can remember biting a guys hand off and spitting his blood covered fingers back into his ugly face.

Sounds interesting if only from a historical perspective.

I've seen Talhoffers book. Much of the dagger work is very similar to Kali.

Well, the problem with 'western' martial arts, due to the way warfare developed here (advent of gun powder/firearms, mass untrained warfare), their practices and traditions died out, whereas in Asia they were still used, and to an extent are still used (Police forces etc), right up until the second world war (Japanese officers leading the attack with katanas anyone?). I feel martial arts native to my country (the UK) and europe need to be studied better and not just seen has 'hack n' slash' which movies seem to popularise them as.

Thats not martial arts, thats some exerise to get your enegry flowing or balenced or something....

Ah the voice of ignorance! Try it before you comment, or ask someone who does it. Evey move you make has an application, and it teaches you balance, effective use of strength and how to use you oponents strength against them. It takes longer to learn but can be quite effective one guy won the asian Karate championship using tai chi a few years back. It depends on how you study it and how you act on what you know. It can be practiced hard or soft and in many forms including Hand, sword, flute or fan.

Thats not martial arts, thats some exerise to get your enegry flowing or balenced or something....

It's a slowed down form of set movements. If you look closely while they're doing it you can see where the hits would come from, I'm sure theres even a form of Tai Chi that uses swords.

Hello I'm a black belt in Tae Kwon Do. I did it in 2 years and 2 months..a record for my age I'm told. I'm do a bit of kick boxing too, but due to an ankle and knee injury I haven't really been able to practise it for the past 2 years. I really miss it, not only for the fitness side of things but it is so much fun. I think that all school children should be made practise some form of martial arts. I also pratise Chi Kung which was created by the Shaolin Monks to create energy etc. I strongly recommend it. It does amazing things. It can clear depression, fix old injuries. One of my shoulders were completely out of allignment due to TKD. My right shoulder dropped a good 2 inches below my other and no it wasn't just bad posture! In 6 weeks my shoulders were completely fine. A doctor told me it could take a year of massage to fix it!

Good style. In my opinion, the only style of Karate worth learning.

Yep. *very* strict though, and it was rough for a lot of the kids taking the course. However, I retained my lightning-reflexes to this day, something im quite glad I developed. :)

It can be practiced hard or soft and in many forms including Hand, sword, flute or fan.


yeah, i'll go to battle armed with a flute.

yeah, i'll go to battle armed with a flute.

I'd be scared. Especially if there were two of you coming at me from different directions and I had to cover all of my orifices.

My two pence (From the UK so it's pence not cents :) ), Been doing Ju-Jitsu for about three years, i'm an orange belt ( 5th Kyu, I think ).


Imported_Jet Li
It's a slowed down form of set movements. If you look closely while they're doing it you can see where the hits would come from, I'm sure theres even a form of Tai Chi that uses swords.

There is, it was mentioned earlier in the disscusion.


Bedou
Perhaps you know the throw I am about to describe--I dont know the name in Hap Ki DO.
Strike at the lower gate,
Fingers into the collar bone area
Grab collar bone
foot into the stomach
roll back flipping the person over--done correctly breaking the collar bone--extremely painful either way.(this was one he always lied about to get volunteers).

Sounds like Tomanage ( or something like that, haven't got my syllabus ), "Stomach Throw", and OWWW! thats got to hurt, hands behind the collar bone!!!! Also am in complete agreement with the respect for all martial arts. I think one of the fun things about studying a martial art is that you will never start a fight, because you never know how good the person opposing you is - so anyone who starts a fight generally IMHO doesn't have a clue.

I'd be scared. Especially if there were two of you coming at me from different directions and I had to cover all of my orifices.

LOL. But think about it you can expand a fan!

IMO, Grapplings always the supirior martial art. Hence winning all MMA competitions all the time. Compared to the rest. But not effecient going against more than one.

So Mixed Martial Art (MMA) always does the trick better.

But fighting more than one person is always a huge disadvantage.

Always run unless your surrounded. Learn the "Thousand step maneuvere" :D
Grappling won't always win the MMA match, but you definitely can't win without training in grappling to some degree.

Even the guys in the sport who are considered strikers and win with knockouts train in grappling so they know how to escape.

I've had friendly sparring sessions against Traditional martial arts guys that do no grappling at all. It's always, "I'll knee/hit/kick you on the way in." They inevitably get taken down, since they truly believe that defense will work. Occasionally someone can pull it off, most of the time you can't. Especially against someone with good takedowns. I train with a former collegiate wrestler who can have you down in an eyeblink. Once on the ground it's like the TMA guys are a fish out of water.

I'm always hearing them say, "I don't train in grappling because I don't want to fight on the ground, it's dangerous."

That's true, it is. It isn't the best place to go if it can be helped. That's why I train in stand up striking as well. But if I'm one guy and I can take you down, what are you going to do if I come at you and I have a buddy with me?

LOL. But think about it you can expand a fan!
you can expand a fan, with a fan. yeah - just call me fanboy!

Greetings readers.

I come before you today as a man with many secrets. Some of which will be no surprise to you. Some of you have probably suspected this of me for a long time. After one close call after another I have decided that I shall reveal my biggest secret of them all. I am a ninja. Don’t look so shocked. Have you ever wondered why I seclude myself in my room when I could be out talking with the rest of you? The answer is simple, I am actually not in my room. What you might think is me sitting at my computer playing computer games is nothing more than one of the most advanced tricks in my arsenal of ninja gear. Where I truly am is none of your concern, but you can rest assured that I am no threat to anyone. (Except those that would threaten the innocents. They shall see my true ninja fury) What drove me to become a ninja you might ask? It is quite simple. It is my belief that the best way to honour God is to seek personal honour. By living a life that is honourable and just, people will see just how God works. Now obviously, some of you might think that because Ninjas are supposedly masters of stealth and assassinations that they are therefore quite dishonourable. I can tell you quite honestly that I have never killed anyone. (well, not anyone important. How was I supposed to know it was wrong to kill the guy who cut me off in traffic last week?) I am probably one of the most honourable ninjas that you will ever meet. (I’m the ONLY ninja you’ll ever meet) Personally, I’m just in it for the benefits. You should see the sword and other assorted weaponry that I get to carry around with me. Don’t bother trying to look for them in my dorm room. One of the most popular ninja tricks is the bottomless pocket. No one, except me, can find the things that I hid in there. Also, provided I remain honourable, the health benefits are second to none. I don’t get paid much for being a ninja, but I get a particular satisfaction when I beat to a pulp those that prey on the weak and defenceless. (Especially because they always seem to think that I fit into those two categories) Now, if anyone wants to learn the ways of Ninjitsu, I cannot teach you. You must seek out the fabled Ninja College. If you can find it, Tuition is free! I thank you for your time, honoured readers, but now I must leave, For the enemies of a ninja are many, and friends are few.

Kareem Halfawi AKA Tadao Ichikawa of Ninja Clan
(I cannot tell you, lest I commit seppuku)
_________________

LOL. But think about it you can expand a fan!

Aieeee!!!!

That's one move karate never taught me how to block :eek:

Ninjas are totally sweet!

They flip out and chop people's heads off.

http://www.realultimatepower.net

The chinese internal arts (tai chi chuan, bagua chang (or pakua), and hsing I) are generally taught solely as a means for circulating energy, but there are very effective matial applications included in the movements as mentioned previously. If you think of tai chi as only the slow movement, than you have not seen the entire art. I studied for about 8 years at a kung fu school that taught an ecclectic (sp?) variety of style components including Northern, Southern, Animal styles, chin na (joint locks), weapons and yes, even grappling (someone from a Gracie school came to teach on the weekends. Before learning any of those techniques you had to study tai chi and philosophy for a few months to try and week out the "bruisers" and tournament "glory hounds". Despite how it sounds, I don't really mean those terms to be derogatory, they just weren't the type of student my sifu was looking for. I am sure that statement right there will earn the wrath of Golden Coil, but I can live with that... ;)

I also studied tai chi for a couple of years with a man who was one of the senior students of a Yang style lineage holder, and he was most definitely capable of defending himself against most any style. He was capable of doing a number of astounding things that I can not easily explain, but the most relevant to this conversation is that despite extensive training in other arts (the majority of students heald black belts in some art or another), not a single person was able to successfully lock a joint on him. This included techniques that I recognized from chin na as well as many I recognized as jiu jitsu-type. The training at the school included standing meditation for extended periods as well as fast and slow form work. The fast forms are exceptionally explosive and make the martial applications readily recognizable. Tai chi also has a variety of weapons included in the system including the "traditional" weapons of straight sword, broad sword, and staff, but also includes the more "yin" weapons of the fan and flute. This is not intended to be an inclusive list.

I think that discussion of different styles is important, but animosity between styles is far too common and can get in the way of the flow of information that could benefit all involved. The important thing with martial arts is to put all of your focus into your practice with a clear view of why you are studying (fun and fitness, tournament and sport, or fighting and self defense). If you are serious about fighting, then you would be foolish to study a single style, even if it is grappling. If you are not serious about beating someone's brain in, then look for the best in whatever system you study and ALWAYS be respectful of those with differing opinions. I also agree that the most important lessons you can learn in true martial arts is how to avoid a confrontation.

Anyway, how's that for a rambling first post on the forum? I think this is a good thread, but would ask people to not disparage the internal martial arts, as they are most certainly potent if you have the time, patience and temperment to devote to them.

P.S. This spring I hope to start at a school that teaches bagua, Chen tai chi, Yang tai chi, seven star praying mantis, fencing and combat sword play. As I am now starting to slow down and don't think the joints can handle the abuse of the harder styles any more, I plan on continuing my study of tai chi and bagua (though I hear that is hard on the knees and ankles...).

I don't care what someone trains in. I think, however, that some people get delusional or unrealistic expectations or beliefs from what they do. I feel that's dangerous for students and irresponsible for instructors.

Take someone like Klington, who seems to think he's developing into some Jet Li like killing machine. This is the kind of guy who will someday find himself in a bad situation and believe he has the skills to handle it and will likely get a bad comeuppance.

I've seen a little Chin Na. Some principles are ok, but overall I wasn't impressed. I think to many of the subs utilize sloppy technique. For instance, on a basic armbar from the mount demonstration, the appliers knees were far apart. For a tight armbar it's imperative to keep the knees together, so as to minimize the risk of escape.

There is a Tai Chi school up in Vancouver that trains guys to fight in MMA competitions using Tai Chi. They actually have a decent record overall.

If the whole mind-body meditative thing is your deal, hey, go for it. I believe in training in Martial arts because you're training for fighting. That means skill development, physical fitness, etc. I'd personally pick another route to go if I'm looking for spiritual awareness.

:eek:
No flames?

THE END IS NIGH!!

The irony of course being that we'd been having a civil discussion in a forum about fighting... :cool:

Anyway, how's that for a rambling first post on the forum? I think this is a good thread, but would ask people to not disparage the internal martial arts, as they are most certainly potent if you have the time, patience and temperment to devote to them.
Well said. I study a modern kung fu stle that combines elements of Bagua, Hsing Yi and Tai Chi with Wing Chun. The way it is taught it can be external or internal. I have an aptitude and a preference for being internal but I am taught to be external as a balance. Both have their place and uses, particularly as you get older and internal becomes the better way as your physique ages.

Got to say the two posts by coil and Dobermany sum up exactly how I feel. Find a style you like that fits what you want to get out of it, that way you get most out of it. Try several mix and match. That is the best way.

Heh, I remember when I was a kid, maybe thirteen or fourteen.
I went to breakfast with a friend of my dads.
As soon as he sat down he looked for all the exits, then he removed the top from the salt shaker.

I asked "Why did you do that?"
He replied "So he wont be able to see."
I asked "Who?"
He replied "Whoever I want."

While he sounds a little paranoid--to this day, I take the top off the salt shaker(when there is one).
Just thought it was a funny story.
Pepper-shaker would have been better. ;)

The irony of course being that we'd been having a civil discussion in a forum about fighting... :cool:

You can't fight in here gentlemen! This is the War Room!

You can't fight in here gentlemen! This is the War Room!

There must not be a mineshaft gap!!

I am the rank before bblackbelt in a chool where we study Jujitsu and Kempo.

I used to study at Princeton Academy of Martial arts. I was pretty serious about it. Studied Lee Jun Fan kung fu, Pentjak Silat, Kali, Mixed grappling, and a little Muay Thai. Also boxed a bit. 6 or 7 classes/week plus sparring on wed. nights.

I used to study at Princeton Academy of Martial arts. I was pretty serious about it. Studied Lee Jun Fan kung fu, Pentjak Silat, Kali, Mixed grappling, and a little Muay Thai. Also boxed a bit. 6 or 7 classes/week plus sparring on wed. nights.

I think some of my friends went up there for an Erik Paulson seminar.

Did you guys ever host him? And maybe Ajarn Chai and Dan Inosanto as well?

Gentlemen please, everyone who has seen Krav Magar knows it is the best. It is the streefighters aid, bouncers have been floored by its practicers, and bouncers have been given free gut punches before the fight. It also teaches how to deal with knifes and gun wielders. But the cooles thing is learning how to never get winded. I dont actually practice it but I HAVE seen it.

Gentlemen please, everyone who has seen Krav Magar knows it is the best. It is the streefighters aid, bouncers have been floored by its practicers, and bouncers have been given free gut punches before the fight. It also teaches how to deal with knifes and gun wielders. But the cooles thing is learning how to never get winded. I dont actually practice it but I HAVE seen it.

Krav is extremely overrated.

Seriously, watch this demo and try not to laugh.

Someone trying these gun disarms will get themselves shot.

http://www.videodesk.net/show.aspx?user_key=15876&file=Movie.wmv&send_link=1

I think some of my friends went up there for an Erik Paulson seminar.

Did you guys ever host him? And maybe Ajarn Chai and Dan Inosanto as well?
Ajarn Chai was hosted regularly. Guro Dan Inosanto held two seminars there / year. I remember Erik Paulson assisting in an Inosanto seminar and then offering a grappling clinic the next monday. Great people.

Thats not martial arts, thats some exerise to get your enegry flowing or balenced or something....
Most people's tai chi is useless for fighting, but I was once thrown about ten feet in a demonstration by a little old man who had recently recovered from cancer and had two bad knees but studied Tai Chi as a martial art.

http://www.videodesk.net/show.aspx?user_key=15876&file=Movie.wmv&send_link=1Just commenting on the particular video, because I've got a feeling it might not be representative of all teachers and practicers of Krav Maga... but damn, what the hell was that first "disarm" in the bar about? Had the gun went off at any time in that incident, the "bartender" would have been shot in the torso. They could have at least shot that sequence again a couple of times to make it look a bit less ridiculous.

Ajarn Chai was hosted regularly. Guro Dan Inosanto held two seminars there / year. I remember Erik Paulson assisting in an Inosanto seminar and then offering a grappling clinic the next monday. Great people.

Absolutely.

Any training day with any of the three of them is a good day. Especially a living legend like Inosanto.

I'm real big into CSW. I train with Erik Paulson every chance I get.

Just commenting on the particular video, because I've got a feeling it might not be representative of all teachers and practicers of Krav Maga... but damn, what the hell was that first "disarm" in the bar about? Had the gun went off at any time in that incident, the "bartender" would have been shot in the torso. They could have at least shot that sequence again a couple of times to make it look a bit less ridiculous.

Well, the problem with your theory my friend is that the producer of that video is a guy named Darren Levine, who is supposed to be the foremost Krav authority in the US.

Now, I've heard people say that the Krav that gets taught in the US isn't the same or as hardcore as what gets taught to the IDF, but I'm not sure I buy that either. We had an Israeli soldier who was in the area visiting family come by our school, and we asked him about Krav Maga and he just laughed and shook his head.

Military combatives in general aren't well taught. They're meant to be quick fixes that can be learned quickly. Elite military units have a ton of more important things to train in outside of H2H. I've heard this from both SEALs and Army SF. The badass MA guys in those units learn stuff in their own free time.

That said, Krav Maga at least takes a much more realistic approach to fighting than your usual traditional martial art.

SAMBO is an effective martial art that came out of the old Soviet military. It's based on Judo with some striking and wrestling thrown in.

Gentlemen please, everyone who has seen Krav Magar knows it is the best. It is the streefighters aid, bouncers have been floored by its practicers, and bouncers have been given free gut punches before the fight. It also teaches how to deal with knifes and gun wielders. But the cooles thing is learning how to never get winded. I dont actually practice it but I HAVE seen it.

LOL! I remember a nasty little bar fight I saw a few years back. I knew both participants.

Sean: former IDF, Krav Maga trained
Dru: former all Australia Muy Thai champ, pro bodygaurd, bouncer at a Maori club

Dru came out unhurt, Sean was bloody.

(Dru's 1-on-3+ bar fight is a sweet victory story for another day.)

I'm a green-belt/blue-line in Tae Kwon Do, and just for fun I thought it'd be interesting to see if anyone else here practices a marital art. I'll have a poll in a sec.

I take classes at the Francis Fong Academy (http://www.francisfongacademy.com/homepage.html) in Wing Chun Kung Fu, Kali/Escrima, Jun Fan Gung Fu, Jeet Kun Do, Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and Capoera.

I highly recommend it.

woo hoo tae kwon do at keumgang academy of tae kwon do

black belt in a year, red now, im entering the compo on the 30th jan in Urmston and

may see u in canada next year.

anyone do XMA , i sort of do


DEMONSTRATION TEAM VELOCITY

Fencing can't count as a martial art. It's a great sport, yes, and loads of fun, good for your reflexes, great for hand-eye coordination, but the weight of the weapon is in no way representative of a real rapier. If one were to use a rapier as one uses a foil or epee, his/her arm would tire very quickly. The way a foil/epee is held takes advantage of its light weight. A real sword is several times heavier. The third type of fencing sword, the sabre, is much to light to be a real slashing weapon. The edge wouldn't cut through much because there's no weight or steel behind it.

As much as I love fencing, I can't call it a martial art. The weapons are just too removed from their predecessors/inspirations that the actual style learned in fencing wouldn't carry over to a real-life situation. Purely sport, but a great one. I reccomend it to all of you.

Hmmm... much as I want to disagree, I'm going to agree with you. With the caveat that there are, AFAIK, a very small number of people practicing western sword arts (including rapier).

IMHO, any martial art that doesn't involve gunpowder is now a sport.

So no modern firearms, seeing as they use nitrocellulose, not gunpowder... ;) :p

My main study is Wing Chun Kung Fu(of the Yip Man Lineage).
I have in the past studied JuiJitsu(Brazilian, Gracie and Muchado)
Muay Thai
Savate
A little Arnis
Espada y Daga
Escrima
Pencak Silat
I have tained to compliment my WIng Chun in Chin Na, and quick wrestling.
I have Boxxed(Western) since I was sixteen(I am 29 now).
I want to comment on a number of things.
1.Kung Fu covers a wide variety of things--that exceed well beyond fighting arts--someones cooking skill could be called their "Kung Fu".
2.Any instructor who tells you he will teach you how to deal with a gun and the first lesson is not "do what the man says-style", the second lesson "run your ass off--style" is an inept fool with no real street fighting experience.
A gun is immediate death--no block, no punch no anything your body has can protect you from a bullet--you should only be taught to engage in combat an armed attacker if you have no other option. This is at a point in Martial traing where you have reached a level where your instructor is teaching you moves-kata-tricks-what have that serve only in killing and crippling an opponent.
One does not subdue someone with a knife or a gun--you kill them.
If you are not commited to ending the life of your attacker you should defer to them and hope for the best.
3. My first year of serious Wing Chun training I had the pleasure of full contact bare knuckled no holds barred match with 1st don-degree whatever the popular title is now --of Tae kwon do(taught under Master Shin from Korea who taught in Grosse point MI, it is my understanding he is one of the best in the united states.)
I will leave long story short--I am thoroughly unimpressed by Tae know do.
A kick in the ribs and a swollen ankle are not going to stop an angry aggressor. My experience with it left me believing it is severly lacking.
4. Someone said that ground fighting is stupid.
I submit that I can go toe to toe with any stand up fighter on this board, take them to the ground and break threee bones before they have me bleeding.
If one examines the fundamentals of Close quater combat one finds that ground fighting is an absolute requirement for a proficient fighter--which is why every military in the world teaches ground fighting techniques to their soldiers. From the Russian Spetnas to the Brittish SAS, the IDF and the FBI.
The mistake people make is thinking that a single range(style is incorrect terminology for his concept) makes them an effective fighter.
In my years of training I have had the pleasure of sparring against Army Rangers and Navy SEALS. I have assited in close quater combat training demonstrations with Local and Federal LAw Enforcement Agencies. All these groups utilize ground fighting strategies.

Anyway, I am surprised to see many people here have studied one thing or another-- no matter what it is you do study, take it seriously and practice consistantly and you will get good results. As well a true Martial Artist should never disrespect the efforts of a fellow Martial artist regardless of any rivalry of paticular styles.

Martial Art--Marksmenship is also a Martial Art--Martial(Literally:WAR)
Just my two cents.

What he said. I don't have the personal experience, but I've been around enough people who have, plus have read up on the history of enough military arts to know.

LOL! I remember a nasty little bar fight I saw a few years back. I knew both participants.

Sean: former IDF, Krav Maga trained
Dru: former all Australia Muy Thai champ, pro bodygaurd, bouncer at a Maori club

Dru came out unhurt, Sean was bloody.

(Dru's 1-on-3+ bar fight is a sweet victory story for another day.)

I believe it.

I take classes at the Francis Fong Academy (http://www.francisfongacademy.com/homepage.html) in Wing Chun Kung Fu, Kali/Escrima, Jun Fan Gung Fu, Jeet Kun Do, Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and Capoera.

I highly recommend it.

Good school! Francis Fong is incredible.

You must be in the Atlanta area, I assume.

Another good place down there is Tiger Academy run by Eddie Camden. But it depends on what you're looking for.

Studied 10 years TKD - 9 traditional, 1 sport. Fortunately, I had a top GM for the traditional and actually learned something, and developed a strong sense of discipline and control. I think the best thing I learned was how to hit and get hit, and improved reaction times.

Studied Hap Ki Do, also from a top GM. Good stuff, learned things I didn't know. No sparring so it was too "academic."

Now studying Jeet Kune Do - hasn't been long enough to make judgement, but I like the concept. Instructor is certified by Dan Inosanto, so at least the pedigree is there.

JKD teaches five ranges of combat:
- Kickboxing (long range)
- Close Quarters (knees, elbows, headbutts)
- Grappling/Ground Fighting (jiujitsu mostly, plus some western influences)
- Weapons (Knives, Sticks, Firearms)
- Mass Combat (Multiple Opponents)

Following Bruce Lee's philosophy, JKD takes what works (real world - BL wasn't into katas either) and incorporates it. Lately, alot of Gracie Jiujitsu and filipino weapons techniques have been absorbed, along with the RAT system the SEALS use.

As far as guns go, sure they teach how to take a gun away - real martial artists know it's a last resort gamble, but it's worth practicing. JKD takes it one step further - what if the move works? Can you fire the weapon? Can you hit the target without shooting yourself or an innocent bystander? Can you unload the weapon or put the safety on?

JKD also eliminates belts and testing - not true measures of skill. In the end, the only true measure of your skill is a real world confrontation - something to be avoided if possible.

i remeber at judgement day 2004 some guy used toy guns in a weapons form
anybody go to comps and judgement day. stateth ur name and i will look out for you

Studied 10 years TKD - 9 traditional, 1 sport. Fortunately, I had a top GM for the traditional and actually learned something, and developed a strong sense of discipline and control. I think the best thing I learned was how to hit and get hit, and improved reaction times.

Studied Hap Ki Do, also from a top GM. Good stuff, learned things I didn't know. No sparring so it was too "academic."

Now studying Jeet Kune Do - hasn't been long enough to make judgement, but I like the concept. Instructor is certified by Dan Inosanto, so at least the pedigree is there.

JKD teaches five ranges of combat:
- Kickboxing (long range)
- Close Quarters (knees, elbows, headbutts)
- Grappling/Ground Fighting (jiujitsu mostly, plus some western influences)
- Weapons (Knives, Sticks, Firearms)
- Mass Combat (Multiple Opponents)

Following Bruce Lee's philosophy, JKD takes what works (real world - BL wasn't into katas either) and incorporates it. Lately, alot of Gracie Jiujitsu and filipino weapons techniques have been absorbed, along with the RAT system the SEALS use.

As far as guns go, sure they teach how to take a gun away - real martial artists know it's a last resort gamble, but it's worth practicing. JKD takes it one step further - what if the move works? Can you fire the weapon? Can you hit the target without shooting yourself or an innocent bystander? Can you unload the weapon or put the safety on?

JKD also eliminates belts and testing - not true measures of skill. In the end, the only true measure of your skill is a real world confrontation - something to be avoided if possible.

My instructor is a full instructor under Guro Dan, as well as a Muay Thai instructor under Ajarn Chai, we're currently a Pedro Sauer affiliate for BJJ, we used to under the Machados. He's also a former SEAL, so he brings that level of intensity and experience to the class.

I'm curious what you mean by RAT, as my teacher never mentions it. Unless he's referring to it by another name.

If anyone knows Mr Wilks , the most feared man ever.

He said hi to my m8 at a comp once and my friend just blanked him, when he walked back to our instructor then he went sick at him ( in a funny way) shouting, its mr wilks you dont say no to mr wilks

Rapid Assault Tactics

I'm new so I don't have the correct terminology down, but it goes like this:

Intercept/Pain - typically an eye gouge, nut kick or destruction to initiate the conflict

Penetration/Entry - this is the closing maneuver, using a Wing Chung technique for this (rapid punches to the lower third of the face)

Termination - close quarters is the objective. grab behind opponents neck, employ knees, elbows and headbutts to finish opponent.

Have seen and heard of this by other names, but it's essentially the same - simple moves, get close, use the most effective weapons, get it done fast.

Rapid Assault Tactics

I'm new so I don't have the correct terminology down, but it goes like this:

Intercept/Pain - typically an eye gouge, nut kick or destruction to initiate the conflict

Penetration/Entry - this is the closing maneuver, using a Wing Chung technique for this (rapid punches to the lower third of the face)

Termination - close quarters is the objective. grab behind opponents neck, employ knees, elbows and headbutts to finish opponent.

Have seen and heard of this by other names, but it's essentially the same - simple moves, get close, use the most effective weapons, get it done fast.

Sounds kind of like Paul Vunak's PFS/JKD.

Boxing came from Thai Boxing.

Western boxing was originally purely occidental. It was however influenced heavily in the 16th-19th centuries by sailors from the south seas. Many of them were thai boxers but there were also a great number of filipino panatukan practioners, as well as countless burmese, and indonesians.

Western boxing was originally purely occidental. It was however influenced heavily in the 16th-19th centuries by sailors from the south seas. Many of them were thai boxers but there were also a great number of filipino panatukan practioners, as well as countless burmese, and indonesians.
Agreed. The current form of Western boxing is influenced by SEA martial arts, but the original concept is European.

Oh yeah??? Well YOUR group goes Granny-dippin'! :D

Please, for the love of all that is decent and holy, NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE OR CONDITION, explain to any of us what the hell, "Granny-dippin'" means!

I don't think I could take it.

Good school! Francis Fong is incredible.

You must be in the Atlanta area, I assume.

Another good place down there is Tiger Academy run by Eddie Camden. But it depends on what you're looking for.

Yeah Eddie is really cool (he is a student of Sifu Fong's too). I am in the Atlanta Area only in the most general of terms. I commute to the school, but it is quite worth it. There are also a couple other former students of Sifu Fong's in the area that also have excellent schools.

I have 7 and a half years kempo
3 years kung fu
3 years kick boxing
2 years shorin
and 2 years wrestling

anyone who thinks martial arts is crap i would like to see you go up agianst my kempo and kickboxing sensi he will kick the living crap out of you

Western boxing was originally purely occidental. It was however influenced heavily in the 16th-19th centuries by sailors from the south seas. Many of them were thai boxers but there were also a great number of filipino panatukan practioners, as well as countless burmese, and indonesians.
Occidental in what way? Certainly not the stance. Traditional Thay Boxers have a high stance. Leaving the upper torso uncovered. Also traditional Thay Boxers almost don't use their fists. Knees, kicks and ellbows. The Japanese copied that and added western boxing techniques to it. If anything modern day Thay Boxing is occidental.
And then there's American kick boxing.......pfffrbwahahaha..... :D

Occidental in what way? Certainly not the stance. Traditional Thay Boxers have a high stance. Leaving the upper torso uncovered. Also traditional Thay Boxers almost don't use their fists. Knees, kicks and ellbows. The Japanese copied that and added western boxing techniques to it. If anything modern day Thay Boxing is occidental.
And then there's American kick boxing.......pfffrbwahahaha..... :D


I think you misread something. I never said Muay Thai was occidental. I said that 'WESTERN Boxing' was originally occidental (I believe british, but have read arguments for both spain and rome, and the simplicity suggests that multiple origins are easily possible).

Someone said that western boxing came from Thai Boxing, to which I retorted, no it didn't. If anything, the biggest influence on western boxing was most likely the fillipino one, since the changes all occured around that timeframe, and most closely resemble the filipino styles of hand striking. But, of course, there really are only so many ways to hit someone, so even that is suspect.

Occidental in what way? Certainly not the stance. Traditional Thay Boxers have a high stance. Leaving the upper torso uncovered. Also traditional Thay Boxers almost don't use their fists. Knees, kicks and ellbows. The Japanese copied that and added western boxing techniques to it. If anything modern day Thay Boxing is occidental.
And then there's American kick boxing.......pfffrbwahahaha..... :D

This is true. Traditional Muay Thai placed very little importance on fist strikes. It focused on kicks, knees, and elbows.

The stance in Muay Thai is more squared off as opposed to a longer foot lead. This is because the forward leg of the occidental boxing stance leaves you open to Muay Thai leg kicks, something boxers don't have to worry about.

I think you misread something. I never said Muay Thai was occidental. I said that 'WESTERN Boxing' was originally occidental (I believe british, but have read arguments for both spain and rome, and the simplicity suggests that multiple origins are easily possible).

Someone said that western boxing came from Thai Boxing, to which I retorted, no it didn't. If anything, the biggest influence on western boxing was most likely the fillipino one, since the changes all occured around that timeframe, and most closely resemble the filipino styles of hand striking. But, of course, there really are only so many ways to hit someone, so even that is suspect.
I was taught that the most obvious fillipino influence in western boxing is the way the hands are heald. One by the jaw, one slightly out in front for jabbing. Much different from the way boxers stood in the 1800's.

If anything, the biggest influence on western boxing was most likely the fillipino one, since the changes all occured around that timeframe, and most closely resemble the filipino styles of hand striking. But, of course, there really are only so many ways to hit someone, so even that is suspect.

I've heard Filipino instructors make such claims.

The Filipinos will try to convince you they invented sun rises if you let them ;)

I've heard Filipino instructors make such claims.

The Filipinos will try to convince you they invented sun rises if you let them ;)
What? You mean they didn't?

Martial arts is useless this day in age a majority of the time in fights. To many crazy folks running around armed with alot more than sticks and stones.

That's why the modern warrior must be proficient in Gun-Fu as well as other forms of close combat.

Eight years of karate and I'm glad I took it. I, however, did not take it so I could beat the crap out of anyone who attacked me. I took it because (at the dojo we went to) it emphasized discipline and knowing when to fight and when to just let it go, or in some circumstances just get the hell out of there.

When I was younger, I fought for absolutely no reason. Seriously, someone would call me a name and I'd fight 'em. I went to karate and I started to learn to control my temper and it has lasted to this day. The fights I have gotten in have been very few and far between and I have won each one fairly decisively. I also severely doubt I'll ever be in a situation where I would get into any serious fights against someone using a gun, or any fight period. The amount of fights where I live (Nova Scotia) is very small and I don't like alcohol so I'll never be in any bar fights either :P

It worked for me, and I don't care whether anyone says it is "useless" in real society.

Oh, by the way...as far as katas go, the way I was taught was that they were used to train their arts in a far more subtle way when the teaching of martial arts (in the style of karate I learned at least) for citizens was forbidden. Either way, it made me familiar with the applications of how to use the moves and that is what it has always been used for in my dojo.

I took up Isshin-Ryu Karate this past September - I'm now a second-degree white belt (yea our belt system is a bit weird . . .)

And I know a little bit of judo from the karate classes i've taken too

I think you misread something. I never said Muay Thai was occidental. I said that 'WESTERN Boxing' was originally occidental (I believe british, but have read arguments for both spain and rome, and the simplicity suggests that multiple origins are easily possible).

Someone said that western boxing came from Thai Boxing, to which I retorted, no it didn't. If anything, the biggest influence on western boxing was most likely the fillipino one, since the changes all occured around that timeframe, and most closely resemble the filipino styles of hand striking. But, of course, there really are only so many ways to hit someone, so even that is suspect.
Western boxing is a very old sport common to many nations. It was first formalised by the Marquis of Queensbury in the nineteenth century. Up until then it was a bare knuckle no holds barred thing that he thought very unsuitable for gentlemen. He was known for enjoying a good fight though.

That's why the modern warrior must be proficient in Gun-Fu as well as other forms of close combat.
Know what's rather pitiful?
I was about to ask where "Gun-Fu" originated, and why I'd never heard of it before.

A helpful diagram:

--------. <--- Your point flying by
:confused:
^---- My head

Know what's rather pitiful?
I was about to ask where "Gun-Fu" originated, and why I'd never heard of it before.

A helpful diagram:

--------. <--- Your point flying by
:confused:
^---- My head
:p

15 years of training at a "karate" dojo, I have the word karate in brackets because while it is officailly a Japanese-Style Karate school (Shotokan karate), it has a very heavy influence on it from Kickboxing, Ju'jitsu and Street-fighting, thanks to our Senseis being sent off to Trinidad for Ju'jitsu training and bringing in instructors of other types of Martial arts to train us. I've discovered that it is much mroe fun to actually train in more than one variety of martial arts. Also there are the karate (or other types of martial arts schools) that tend to allow you to "buy" your black-belt, for example, one school I visited in california would give you a certain belt level after you had paid them an amount, and so, no matter how bad you were, you were guaranteed a blackbelt (it was Karate) after 3 years... that's trully pathetic, the single coolest ways of getting your blackbelt 9or it's equivalent) that I've heard of is in Purple Dragon style Ju'jitsu in Trinidad (Headed up by professor Don Jacobs, an amazing martial artist) Where it is a 3 day grading, where you sleep at the dojo, eat at the dojo and get beaten up and completely wrked over for three days... I heard there is a school in Canada that deos something similar too, whwer they spend 24 hours in their dojo testing... I think that is impressive

Western boxing is very heavily influenced by Fillipinos though. Just look at how people used to box, that's funny...

Has anybody here met Mr. Advincula (master of numerous marial art styles, including Isshin-Ryu)? That man is amazing!

By the way. Any students of the old European martial arts here?
In case you wonder what I mean:
http://www.thehaca.com/HEMA.htm
http://www.hema.freehomepage.com/

[QUOTE=Pithica]I think you misread something. I never said Muay Thai was occidental. I said that 'WESTERN Boxing' was originally occidental (I believe british, but have read arguments for both spain and rome, and the simplicity suggests that multiple origins are easily possible).QUOTE]

Just for anyone who still might be confused, occidental= western.

With that out of the way, I must say that I am now looking into martial arts, but haven't really found anything in my area that I like. I was looking into ju-jitsu or something along those lines, as it does teach you a lot of throwing(wrestling type) moves, last I checked. Either that, or save up for Cold Steel's "Warrior's edge" knife fighting DVD's, if only because I know I will always have a knife on me, and the possibility is good that my opponent might have a knife. Other then that, I have made my own tonfa, why is fun to goof around with until I can actually figure out how to use it. :D

:eek:
I FORGOT FENCING!
I've been fencing for a while now, although I'm still pretty bad, it's fun.
I can't believe I forgot it counted!

EDIT:
Does fencing count?
Iado is considerd a martial art. The art of drawing the sword realy fast. Why shouldn't fencing be one?

Silat.

I started out on tkd when I was young. At about age 10 I started doing my own thing with a few older friends. Then I moved to Greensboro when I was 15 and started tkd for another six months. Now I've been doing about six months of wei chang (pronounced wang chung). To those wrestlers out there, wrestling is a martial art in its own respect but its not the ultimate one. There is no ultimate martial art it is only action and reaction, the only factor is how you react.

I have a friend that takes some sort of martial art that is very... Err...
*stumbling over words*
I guess 'geometric' might be a good word. It has a lot to do with specific patterns of movements in certain directions.

Wow, am I being vague or what? It's cool though.

I have a friend that takes some sort of martial art that is very... Err...
*stumbling over words*
I guess 'geometric' might be a good word. It has a lot to do with specific patterns of movements in certain directions.

Wow, am I being vague or what? It's cool though.
Tai Chi?

This is true. Traditional Muay Thai placed very little importance on fist strikes. It focused on kicks, knees, and elbows.

The stance in Muay Thai is more squared off as opposed to a longer foot lead. This is because the forward leg of the occidental boxing stance leaves you open to Muay Thai leg kicks, something boxers don't have to worry about.

Exactly. The friend I mentioned above almost always used knees and elbows at close range, and kicks at longer range.

(Yes, he got in a number of fights while here. Mostly he was defending himself, but twice when defending his family. Suggestion: when someone like that is pushing a baby in a stroller across a cross walk, don't speed up, miss the stroller by inches, then get out and yell at him. And don't even think about reaching into the stroller after all that. :eek: )

Iado is considerd a martial art. The art of drawing the sword realy fast. Why shouldn't fencing be one?

Iaido at least closely resembles the old schools, and could concievably be used in combat. Olympic fencing, as someone said above, is quite different from combat fencing. I doubt the average modern fencer would survive being dropped into a duel, much less a back alley sword fight. Note that much can be said for many of the practitioners of other modern "sport" MAs.

Iaido at least closely resembles the old schools, and could concievably be used in combat. Olympic fencing, as someone said above, is quite different from combat fencing. I doubt the average modern fencer would survive being dropped into a duel, much less a back alley sword fight.
That's certainly true. Kendō can't really be used anymore, though it aids in the physical aspect, but not the technical parts of actual fighting. Iaidō isn't too bad, but it's really iaijustsu and kenjutsu that really teach you to kill. Except there's almost no real instructors on that latter anymore...

Iaido at least closely resembles the old schools, and could concievably be used in combat. Olympic fencing, as someone said above, is quite different from combat fencing. I doubt the average modern fencer would survive being dropped into a duel, much less a back alley sword fight. Note that much can be said for many of the practitioners of other modern "sport" MAs.

This is only partially correct. You are correct in foil- the training weapon, and sabre- the cavalry weapon. But eppe is combat fencing...

Iaido at least closely resembles the old schools, and could concievably be used in combat. Olympic fencing, as someone said above, is quite different from combat fencing. I doubt the average modern fencer would survive being dropped into a duel, much less a back alley sword fight. Note that much can be said for many of the practitioners of other modern "sport" MAs.
You have a point...

This is only partially correct. You are correct in foil- the training weapon, and sabre- the cavalry weapon. But eppe is combat fencing...

Yes, modern sport fencing is derived from classical fencing, , but it is absolutely not the same.

To start with, I've done both olympic and historical re-enactment fencing (SCA). The historical training was not terribly accurate, but was closer to historical fencing than olympic. In addition, as part of the historical training, we were required to read period fencing manuals such as this one (http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/GSilver.htm). In addition, we occassionally trained with period weapons.

First, there is a significant difference in the feel and handling of an actual rapier or small sword as compared to a epee. For one thing the epee is derived from the colichemarde, not the rapier. Rapiers are heavier. A regulation epee (http://www.fencing-equipment.bizhosting.com/epee_rules.htm) weighs less than 770 g., whereas a rapier (http://www.myarmoury.com/review_aa_custrap.html) might weigh more than twice that. Also note the difference in length. The rapier is almost six inches longer.

Secondly the goals are completelyt different. Combat fencing teaches killing moves. Sport fencing teaches point scoring. The resulting difference in tactics open a sport fencer to risks that would be fataly dangerous in actual combat. Also, sport fencing involves different targets, with similar results.

In addition, a modern sport fencer would be at a serious disadvantage due to the restriction of sport fencing. Modern sport fencers the trained on a strip. They are restricted by right-of-way (a late addition to fencing). A classical fencer not restricted in his training to right-of-way and the piste, has an automatic advantage in movement and attack.

Further more, classical fencing often makes use of "off hand" weapons or defences. A modern sport fencer has no means of dealing with a main gauche, buckler, or other advantages of a classical fencer.

For more substantial discussion of the differences, see: http://www.kmoser.com/classicalfencing.htm#faq
http://www.thearma.org/essays/fenctoda.htm
http://www.hickoksports.com/history/fencing.shtml

You have a point...

That's the point that should distinguish any "real" martial art from a sport - can you apply it against a real opponent?

(And I do have other points - few pointy "toys", that is. ;) Unfortunately they remain in the US. :()

Iaido at least closely resembles the old schools, and could concievably be used in combat. Olympic fencing, as someone said above, is quite different from combat fencing. I doubt the average modern fencer would survive being dropped into a duel, much less a back alley sword fight. Note that much can be said for many of the practitioners of other modern "sport" MAs.
Alright. Point taken.
I wasn't thinking of Olympic fencing.
More of the old European fencing. Like described down below.
http://www.thehaca.com/HEMA.htm
http://www.hema.freehomepage.com/

Alright. Point taken.
I wasn't thinking of Olympic fencing.
More of the old European fencing. Like described down below.
http://www.thehaca.com/HEMA.htm
http://www.hema.freehomepage.com/

Ah, well of course those would be. :)

I was taught that the most obvious fillipino influence in western boxing is the way the hands are heald. One by the jaw, one slightly out in front for jabbing. Much different from the way boxers stood in the 1800's.

Taught the same thing.

I've heard Filipino instructors make such claims.

The Filipinos will try to convince you they invented sun rises if you let them ;)

Anyone that can effectively use a Yo-yo, a newspaper, and a towel effectively in a fight as a deadly weapon will get no back-talk from me in regards to their control over the sun.

Western boxing is a very old sport common to many nations. It was first formalised by the Marquis of Queensbury in the nineteenth century. Up until then it was a bare knuckle no holds barred thing that he thought very unsuitable for gentlemen. He was known for enjoying a good fight though.

That's the story I have always heard for the british origin. But there are similar ones for spain and rome. And of course, queensbury rules allowed for kicks.

Realistically, there are only so many ways to hold your hands, so many ways to punch, kick, grab, and throw. A lot of cultures had martial arts that are very similar and probably were just develloped in parallel. I mean, you use what works when you are in a fight or you lose.

people dont understand that martial arts are deadly, they say
" all it is is spinning kicking and silly noises"
, but its not , i know people who could if they want kill someone with one kick and people who are extremely skilled in them

That's the story I have always heard for the british origin. But there are similar ones for spain and rome. And of course, queensbury rules allowed for kicks.

Realistically, there are only so many ways to hold your hands, so many ways to punch, kick, grab, and throw. A lot of cultures had martial arts that are very similar and probably were just develloped in parallel. I mean, you use what works when you are in a fight or you lose.
Absolutely. I'm sure the Marquis wasn't the only one to form rules but his were the ones that were used for professional and ametuer international competitions as they arose.
As for parralel development Savate is a very interesting example of cross influencing martial arts. It is argueable the first modern fusion martial art.

Silat.

Which type?

I have a friend that takes some sort of martial art that is very... Err...
*stumbling over words*
I guess 'geometric' might be a good word. It has a lot to do with specific patterns of movements in certain directions.

Wow, am I being vague or what? It's cool though.


Could be anything. Kali works that way. There are various angle numbering systems and a lot of triangle footwork. Silat also works like that, and a couple others I can think of.

In order

Shotokan Karate - Vernon Bell - 4 years
BJJA Ju-jutsu - Terry Parker - 10 years
Tai Chi - Assistant instructors sucked big time - 6 months

Shotokan or One strike was cool for that and that I was young and Vernon Bell was amazing
JJ Very fluid and pratical, nothing you couldnt use (stopped because of injury not JJ related)
Tai Chi great for power but i was bein treated as an idiot, just because a dan grade couldnt push me when demonstrating. Hey they asked me to resist, and I had told them about JJ.

I am now at a gym to get better and back to JJ.

Mainly Edge-Fu (http://www.talhoffer.de/kampf/teil1/schlag.html), swordfighting a la Talhoffer, a medieval swordsman.

There are some good Brazilian Jiu-jutsu schools in London, as well as the London Shootfighters.

Western boxing is a very old sport common to many nations. It was first formalised by the Marquis of Queensbury in the nineteenth century. Up until then it was a bare knuckle no holds barred thing that he thought very unsuitable for gentlemen. He was known for enjoying a good fight though.

True.

From a historical fiction perspective, Sherlock Holmes was supposed to be the Middleweight boxing champion of London.

I started out on tkd when I was young. At about age 10 I started doing my own thing with a few older friends. Then I moved to Greensboro when I was 15 and started tkd for another six months. Now I've been doing about six months of wei chang (pronounced wang chung). To those wrestlers out there, wrestling is a martial art in its own respect but its not the ultimate one. There is no ultimate martial art it is only action and reaction, the only factor is how you react.

Do yourself a favor and do a search on Team ROC.

They have one of the best schools in the Greensboro area.

True.

From a historical fiction perspective, Sherlock Holmes was supposed to be the Middleweight boxing champion of London.
True! I'd forgotten that. Queensbury Rules boxing was at first most popular amongst the young gentlemen traders who worked in the London Stock Exchange. It was their lunchtime hobby.

Man, I'd love to be allowed that kind of fun on my lunch break now.

Fight Club anyone?

Man, I'd love to be allowed that kind of fun on my lunch break now.
I know :D Still I got my kung fu lesson tomorrow, so I shall just have to wait till then.

Fight Club anyone?

The first rule of Fight Club is that you do not talk about Fight Club.

The first rule of Fight Club is that you do not talk about Fight Club.
I didn't talk. I typed. :)

If anyone would like to compete in some amateur level Ultimate Fighting Championship style match-ups (in a ring instead of a cage), let me know, I'll hook you up.

If anyone would like to compete in some amateur level Ultimate Fighting Championship style match-ups (in a ring instead of a cage), let me know, I'll hook you up.

Sounds like a lot of fun. Am already planning on doing a dogbrothers gathering this year (if health, practice, and wallet hold up).