NationStates Jolt Archive

...is it a good idea to try to "make it up" to the child, or is that going soft on the kid? Should you even acknowledge wrongdoing, or should you instead uphold the idea that you, as the parent/authority figure, you are always right even when you are wrong? Is this a valuable lesson for kids to learn?

People might say that it's wrong to refuse to admit fault. After all, adults are just as capable of making mistakes as kids are, and kids should know this. This way, kids are less likely to believe that adults are out to get them, or that they enjoy punishing kids.

However, let's be honest. Kids are just as capable of abusing this knowledge as adults are, if not moreso since adults almost have to be aware that they are abusing it to be capable of doing so. Kids really don't have to be aware of it; they just do it.

Also, does it make any sense to punish kids arbitrarily? I know they used to do it in ancient Greece just to maintain a strict disciplinary structure, and it seems that they do it in the military on some level.

Parents that don't teach kids to admit their mistakes end up with children like George W. Bush

Definitely make up or say sorry to the child.

What you want your child to know is not to fear your parents.
But to fear doing wrong/bad things.

Parents that don't teach kids to admit their mistakes end up with children like George W. Bush
Horrible thought. :eek:

Definitely make up or say sorry to the child.

What you want your child to know is not to fear your parents.
But to fear doing wrong/bad things.

I don't think it's an entirely bad thing for kids to fear their parents on a healthy level...certainly not to the point where they fear for their lives or safety or anything, but on the level where they know their parents are extremely capable of finding out if they did anything wrong and are willing to punish them for doing so.

Oh god yes, say sorry, at least! If you don't, they'll never forgive you. If you do things like continue the punishment without admitting fault, they will have mental problems that develop through the teenage years, and then you'll be buried in deep shit.

When my children were young and I discovered that I had reprimanded or punished one of them in error, I always apologized, explained that I was just as prone to make mistakes as anyone else, asked them to forgive me, and promised to try and avoid the same mistake again. Seems to have worked. :)

Certainly make it up, or at least express deep sorrow. I'm not much of a disciplinarian, it is my view that social discipline, such as taking orders wihtou knowledge of the need, makes mistakes happen far too often. Granted, it has its place, such as in the military, but when raising children, it is my view that they should have great freedom and honesty.

I don't think it's an entirely bad thing for kids to fear their parents on a healthy level...certainly not to the point where they fear for their lives or safety or anything, but on the level where they know their parents are extremely capable of finding out if they did anything wrong and are willing to punish them for doing so.
yes but if you punish them for something they did not do and don't make it up to them, they're fearing you punishing them, not fearing what might happen if they do something wrong.

I think you should make it up to them and admit fault. Although by make it up to them I don't mean completely spoil them (Unless you did something really bad to them). Assuming it is nessaccery though, it may not be appropriate to treat them just because you didn't believe something they said.

Although a case can be made for not admitting fault. By not doing that child realises that authority, parental or otherwise, isn't the fountain of truth and rightness so the quickly become jaded with the whole idea so never implicitly trust someone simply because they are in a position of authority.

This is a trust issue, you have to show the child that they can trust you and that you are honest and just. Talk to the child, make sure the child understands that you too make mistakes and that you a very sorry and that you love him or her - its about communication.

I think "making it up to them" is a sign of weakness on the part of a parent. However, if a parent's wrong, the parent should stop punishing the kid and admit the mistake.

Two of my roommates almost never apologized for anything and it may have been because their parents seldom apologized unless he was grievously wrong. That led to a lot of angry moments between me and him. As for my parents, if they did something wrong, they admitted their mistake and they apologized for it.

I can remember one time my mother thought I was just being obsessive about Superman when I told her there was an element on the periodic table named Krypton. She apologized the next day (though I'm not sure if it was because she found there is such an element or not). The point was that Mom specifically approached me and apologized for yelling at me and overreacting.

Kids and teenagers frequently feel they're been unduly punished.

Doesn't bear thinking about what might happen if they found out it was true :p

Admit, Apologise, Stop Punishment is my vote.

Admit fault, apologize, discontinue punishment, and make it up.

Of course, the first three directions may constitute the making it up part if the elapsed punishment was not all that bad. The scale depends on the offense. If they have been grounded for five days including phone and email, a restaurant dinner of their choice might be appropriate. If they were assigned an extra chore or two but you found them innocent only a day later, the apology alone is enough.

"Making it up" however, should not involve repealing disciplinary rules of the house or relaxing responsibilities, unless it is something quite logical and finite such as, I made you do two extra chores for three days, so I will assume two of your usual chores for three days. I think the reasons for this are self-evident.

I have four kids so I dont need to speculate on what I might do.
IN order to maintain discipline(I get stopped in public and complimented on my childrens behavior every single time I leave the house with them).
In order to maintain discipline, you
1.stop the punishment
2.You do not apologize for the punishment that was being given--because it was being given for the right reason--just to the wrong person.
3. You punish the other child and increase the punishment on them for allowing there sibling to suffer in their place.
4. depending on the seriousness of the punishment, Iwill allow the innocent child to decide the punishment for the other child.
5. If it is truly bad I have the guilty child choose their own punishment.

All this psychological damage stuff is crap.
Discipline is deadly important.
It is obvious to me who does and does not have kids here(kids who walk and talk and go out in to the world on their own on occasion).

A parent is a leader, not like a leader but literally a leader.
My children duplicate my actions, if I spend a week in a strong assertive mood I see my attitude reflected in theirs--immediately.
If I am fair and even in my judgement, swift with praise, and punishment. My children do less wrong.
When I am relaxed in my duty, they become lacking in discipline.
I am very proud of my children, they exceed my expectations daily, i often explain to them that they are great kids and I am only a good father so they will just have to learn to put up with me.
All of them except my one year old will tell you that my job is make them grow into good people--I am not tasked with being their friend, buddy, or whatever else.
I can be those things--but what is most important is being a strong parent, that means discipline.

yes but if you punish them for something they did not do and don't make it up to them, they're fearing you punishing them, not fearing what might happen if they do something wrong.

I look at it as a choice between a kid fearing punishment and a kid not fearing anything. Kids can be pretty reckless when they don't have a parent to control them. Aside from that, kids need to learn that the law isn't as forgiving as their parents might be. Your parents love you and will do what they can for you. The law doesn't give a damn about you as a person, if at all. To them, you are a number, and if you go to jail wrongly, they don't really give a rat's ass. That's not to say that parents should behave in the same manner as the law, but they should be prepared to.

I look at it as a choice between a kid fearing punishment and a kid not fearing anything. Kids can be pretty reckless when they don't have a parent to control them. Aside from that, kids need to learn that the law isn't as forgiving as their parents might be. Your parents love you and will do what they can for you. The law doesn't give a damn about you as a person, if at all. To them, you are a number, and if you go to jail wrongly, they don't really give a rat's ass. That's not to say that parents should behave in the same manner as the law, but they should be prepared to.

ask yourself...would you like this to be done unto you?

It would be extremely wrong to not admit and apologize for your error. First of all, it gives the child the message that they should always take what is given to them, even if it is not deserved. What if that same child is accused of a crime later in life? Second of all, any attempt to present yourself as truly infallible will result in problems as the child gets older.

Now, should you "make it up to them"? I think that depends. If their punishment was, say, taking away their game system, then you might spend some time playing on the system with them. If they were grounded, you might tell them to invite a friend and take them to the movies. However, you shouldn't "go easy" on them and let actual problems slide.

ask yourself...would you like this to be done unto you?

Doesn't matter if I would like it. Would I benefit from it? As long as there are people wrongly punished in society, I would learn from it.

The best policy is to make sure he is guilty before punishment...

The best policy is to make sure he is guilty before punishment...

OK, I can agree with that. If I ever become a father, I will probably read books on parental justice, if there are any, to become good at this. Maybe I should petition Congress to make them required reading for all parents...and maybe while I am there, petition Congress to make all punishment reversible in case of such discoveries of innocence. But until that day, parents must give their kids experience with injustice.

thats not always possible. children are people, just little, stupid people and people lie. See where i'm going with this?

p.s.my post was in response to oceandrive's post.

Not a parent yet, but I've teach children of various ages. I tend to maintain class discipline somewhere between Bedou and Eutrusca. Admit a mistake was made but not that the punishment was a mistake, stop the punishment, make it up (which usually means restoring a reward), punish the actual offender (if any) with a stricter punishment (usually a longer time out). This works well, and I've even had mothers compliment me on how well their children behave in my classes.
It was also how my parents operated, and it worked well on me. :)

I look at it as a choice between a kid fearing punishment and a kid not fearing anything. Kids can be pretty reckless when they don't have a parent to control them. Aside from that, kids need to learn that the law isn't as forgiving as their parents might be. Your parents love you and will do what they can for you. The law doesn't give a damn about you as a person, if at all. To them, you are a number, and if you go to jail wrongly, they don't really give a rat's ass. That's not to say that parents should behave in the same manner as the law, but they should be prepared to.

There are legal actions which can be taken if you are wrongfully imprisoned (assuming you are able to prove it), aren't there?

Doesn't matter if I would like it. Would I benefit from it? As long as there are people wrongly punished in society, I would learn from it.

Yeah, you'd learn that society sucks. I think I learned that before anything happened to me....yay for skipping stuff...

If you're dealing with other people's kids, like in a daycare atmosphere, you have to be off your rocker to keep up a punishment when you and the kind know it's unjust, if for the simple reason that it costs you customers and, in extreme situations, opens you to a lawsuit. I wasn't really framing my question in regards to that, but it is an interesting issue. Of course, in that environment, it's almost taken to the other extreme, in which it might be tough to discipline kids at all because parents, whether out of overprotectivism or out of hope of getting a nice settlement from the ordeal, are far quicker to threaten legal action or simple removal from such a situation over the slightest act of discipline.

Oh, and RE your question about arbitrary punishment, no. There does need to be a link to the undesirable behavior. Rules must also not be arbitrary. My classroom rules may be seen as arbitrary by the kids, but they always have a very real purpose (almost always learning or safety). The kids may not understand the purpose of, say sitting up nicely in class, but it does produce a better learning environment.

thats not always possible. children are people, just little, stupid people and people lie. See where i'm going with this?

p.s.my post was in response to oceandrive's post.It Should be always possible if you have one kid, plz Give me an example
of a situation where it is not possible.

BTW..Im not saying you are wrong...cos I m not sure i am rite

thats not always possible. children are people, just little, stupid people and people lie. See where i'm going with this?

p.s.my post was in response to oceandrive's post.

Not all children are stupid, actually. That was the one thing that annoyed me to no end when I was a child. Adults loved to assume that just because I was young, I was stupid. Maybe it's because I was gifted. Maybe it was because my own family treated me like a human when I was a kid (rather than the 'lower life form' treatment I got from teachers..) Maybe it was a multitude of things, but there is one thing I most definitely know. Children do not deserve to be labeled as "stupid" across the board. They are just like any other group -- some dim bulbs, a large group of those with average intelligence, and a few rather brilliant ones.

Oh, and RE your question about arbitrary punishment, no. There does need to be a link to the undesirable behavior. Rules must also not be arbitrary. My classroom rules may be seen as arbitrary by the kids, but they always have a very real purpose (almost always learning or safety). The kids may not understand the purpose of, say sitting up nicely in class, but it does produce a better learning environment.

You're right, unless you have a real whackjob in charge of the classroom. There's also another reason for sitting up straight -- you fall out of your desk a little less often. ^_^

If you're dealing with other people's kids, like in a daycare atmosphere, you have to be off your rocker to keep up a punishment when you and the kind know it's unjust, if for the simple reason that it costs you customers and, in extreme situations, opens you to a lawsuit. I wasn't really framing my question in regards to that, but it is an interesting issue. Of course, in that environment, it's almost taken to the other extreme, in which it might be tough to discipline kids at all because parents, whether out of overprotectivism or out of hope of getting a nice settlement from the ordeal, are far quicker to threaten legal action or simple removal from such a situation over the slightest act of discipline.

Fortunately, this is Japan and not the US. Most parents expect their kids to be disciplined. Another teacher I know actually recieved several complaints because he wasn't maintaining order in his classes.

Teachers do have more leeway. And I know that corporal punishment, while supposedly outlawed, is quite common in the public schools. Also, Japan's legal system discourages lawsuits, even very just ones.

This isn't to say that unjust or arbitrary punishments are accepted. They aren't.

Not all children are stupid, actually. That was the one thing that annoyed me to no end when I was a child. Adults loved to assume that just because I was young, I was stupid. Maybe it's because I was gifted. Maybe it was because my own family treated me like a human when I was a kid (rather than the 'lower life form' treatment I got from teachers..) Maybe it was a multitude of things, but there is one thing I most definitely know. Children do not deserve to be labeled as "stupid" across the board. They are just like any other group -- some dim bulbs, a large group of those with average intelligence, and a few rather brilliant ones.

Not only that, but children absorb information like spounges. Goofy spounges, sometimes. :) I tend towards viewing my kids as smart, goofy, spounges. So may not be as absorbant as others, but that doesn't make them stupid.

Also, there are no desks in my classrooms - it's cushions on the floor, Japanese style. :D

Admit fault and apologize. Going out buying them something to "make it up" to them isn't a very good idea IMO. That would leave them to believe that is how it will be out here in the real world, and it definatly isn't that way. Admitting fault and apology is sufficient.

If you are indeed in thr wrong, admit fault. Show them that you made a genuine mistake and that you still love them. Use it to teach them about forgiveness and taking responsibility for mistakes.

Isn't "stop the punishment" enough "making up"?

Isn't "stop the punishment" enough "making up"?
Yes, but if the child is young, you would probably need to explain it to them.

My parents incorrectly punished me on a number of occasions, every time they were then proven wrong they simply told me to assign that punishment to something I had gotten away with before and we'll call it square.

This seems to me like a good system. I'm not angel, but I don't like getting punished for no reason. Thus simply attributing a punishment to another crime seems fair.

i'd set the little bastards hands on fire for sassin' me.

i'd set the little bastards hands on fire for sassin' me.

Yes, continue beating the little punk. Doubtless they deserve it for all the crap they've pulled and didn't get caught.

My parents would never admit that they were wrong about things, and were the type that would continue my punishment because theyd started so theyd finish. And whilst i can't blame them for my life as it stands, i have not turned out a well heeled person and whilst i have an extensive vocabulary i have a bitter and deep rooted resentment of them and any figure that tries to blame me even slightly for something i have not done. Its an instinct reaction and i get very hostile if people jump to conclusions around me. Always make it up to your child. What you do now affects them for the rest of their lives.

Not only that, but children absorb information like spounges. Goofy spounges, sometimes. :) I tend towards viewing my kids as smart, goofy, spounges. So may not be as absorbant as others, but that doesn't make them stupid.

Also, there are no desks in my classrooms - it's cushions on the floor, Japanese style. :D

I might have learned better like that...hell, the classes I did best in were the ones where I sat on a metal barstool next to the window....desks are so.....restrictive...

Admit fault, stop the punishment, and apologize.

I beat them for making me look like a fool.

I beat them for making me look like a fool.
O.o, i know people like that, it's not fun.

i highly recommend that you dont give out punishments that NEED making up for. always be thorough in your "investigation" so that you dont fly off the handle and punish a child on slim evidence.

if you find you have made an honest mistake, admit it. it is a powerful lesson to your child. stop the punishment but no making up for it is necessary (whatever that might entail beyond a hug and an apology)'


no you shouldnt arbitrarily punish your child that will make them nutz. nutz isnt good.

It depends. Do you want your kids to hate you or love you?

I'm not a big fan of spite, and I would like it if my kids loved me, so I'm going with the first choice of apoligize, admit error, and try to fix it.

My parents, on the other hand, see it as the oposite. Which is probebly one of the reasons I'm so apathetic towards them.

I think "making it up to them" is a sign of weakness on the part of a parent. However, if a parent's wrong, the parent should stop punishing the kid and admit the mistake.



'Making it up to them' is not necessarily a form of weakness. For example, if you forced them to pay for a broken lamp that they did not break, apologising and refunding them the money is the only fair thing to do. If you merely apologize and stop docking their allowance as of your apology, and do return the money you docked before discovering your error, then you are compounding your error.

It's about setting a example.

bump

I think to always punish child. For not to punish child is to be bad and for him to think he is better. So punish child always to show him he is only child.

Make it up to them, if they get pissed at you, you dont want that, they wont trust you, they will argue with you more.

Here's a little story. Okay, it doesn't really have to do with a child, but I've killed too many brain cells to remember my early childhood, so I'll just go back to sophomore year of high school.

It was early on in the year, and I had a platoon leader that I didn't like much. He just seemed like a pretty worthless individual, who didn't really know what he was doing. One day, I fell out a minute or so late for a formation because I had been told earlier that we weren't having formation, by some higher-up (I forget who). When I got outside, he dropped me (made me do push-ups, pretty standard punishment for most minor infractions), and wouldn't listen when I tried to explain to him what I had been told. Later that evening, the person who had told me that there was no formation approached him about this, and he came to me personally, admitted that he had been in error, and apologized. Now, the rank structure at this school is pretty much a joke, and no one takes it very seriously, but I must say, I have had immense respect for him ever since, and any orders coming from him after that incident carried more weight than if they had come from someone else.

If you want your children, or anyone else, to trust or respect you at all, then you should do your best to always be honest with them, no matter how bad it might make you look in the short term.

Valied point.