NationStates Jolt Archive

Well elections for a new Palestinian leader are today

I've had all this hope that Abbas (projected winner) would help usher in a new era in Israeli-Palestinian relations. Thing is, I've heard from some people that he actually may not have the best plan to help the situation there :( I really hope that whoever gets elected is better than Arafat

Admittedly I have not been following the campaigns that closely, but it looks like to me that most candidates are rabidly hardline anti-Israel types. If people like that are in command there will never be peace.

As always in politics, we plan for the worst and hope for the best. Sadly, the Palestinian best right now seems to be a moderate-minded reformer with a poor success rate against hardliners. Still, there is hope.

Need someone strong with the army, to kick the terrorism out of Palestine.

And build themselves a wall on their sides, so that stupid kids would stop throwing rocks and trigger happy isreali's would stop firing at them. :)

Last report I've heard is that Abbas has 66% of the Palestinian Vote.

Hopefully he'll do what is necessary to bring Peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

Well elections for a new Palestinian leader are today

I've had all this hope that Abbas (projected winner) would help usher in a new era in Israeli-Palestinian relations. Thing is, I've heard from some people that he actually may not have the best plan to help the situation there :( I really hope that whoever gets elected is better than Arafat

I agree, I hope for peace with all my heart.

Admittedly I have not been following the campaigns that closely, but it looks like to me that most candidates are rabidly hardline anti-Israel types. If people like that are in command there will never be peace.

Um.. maybe you should follow the news then, you seem a little misinformed. Thomas Friedman has a totally crazy piece about the elections in today's nytimes. It claims that christian and jewish fundamentalists in the US are planning on going to the Gaza strip to trying to prevent the Israeli withdrawl from there and the hardline rabbis are trying to get to get IDF members to turn against the government. It sounds like a good old bloody civil war in the making.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/09/opinion/09friedman.html?oref=login&hp
Yeah you ned a login.

Um.. maybe you should follow the news then, you seem a little misinformed. Thomas Friedman has a totally crazy piece about the elections in today's nytimes. It claims that christian and jewish fundamentalists in the US are planning on going to the Gaza strip to trying to prevent the Israeli withdrawl from there and the hardline rabbis are trying to get to get IDF members to turn against the government. It sounds like a good old bloody civil war in the making.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/09/opinion/09friedman.html?oref=login&hp
Yeah you ned a login.
Thomas Friedman is a moron. I don't buy anything he says.

Um.. maybe you should follow the news then, you seem a little misinformed. Thomas Friedman has a totally crazy piece about the elections in today's nytimes. It claims that christian and jewish fundamentalists in the US are planning on going to the Gaza strip to trying to prevent the Israeli withdrawl from there and the hardline rabbis are trying to get to get IDF members to turn against the government. It sounds like a good old bloody civil war in the making.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/09/opinion/09friedman.html?oref=login&hp
Yeah you ned a login.

Civil war? It isn't Isreal vs Israel, it's more of Israel vs Arabs in some aspects. The Israelis have in some aspects a right to be in Gaza and the West Bank but they shouldn't really make themselves permanent because that's just going to make the Palastinians more angry and possibly agressive.

Need someone strong with the army, to kick the terrorism out of Palestine.

And build themselves a wall on their sides, so that stupid kids would stop throwing rocks and trigger happy isreali's would stop firing at them. :)

And that suicide bombers would stop walking into Israeli malls and bus stops.

Admittedly I have not been following the campaigns that closely, but it looks like to me that most candidates are rabidly hardline anti-Israel types. If people like that are in command there will never be peace.

Not like Isreal has peace-loving seekers for leaders in the first place.

Need someone strong with the army, to kick the terrorism out of Palestine.

And build themselves a wall on their sides, so that stupid kids would stop throwing rocks and trigger happy isreali's would stop firing at them. :)


Oh yea. That stops terrorism so effectively

Not like Isreal has peace-loving seekers for leaders in the first place.

They probably do, just the populace doesn't think they would benefit from having them in power.

They probably do, just the populace doesn't think they would benefit from having them in power.

Yes.

Not like Isreal has peace-loving seekers for leaders in the first place.
I know the evil Israelis only offered 97% of the Palestinian demands. It's all their fault that Arafat refused to take Prince Bandar's advise ance accept the 2000 deal and rather started to kill Israeli civilians.

I know the evil Israelis only offered 97% of the Palestinian demands. It's all their fault that Arafat refused to take Prince Bandar's advise ance accept the 2000 deal and rather started to kill Israeli civilians.

Who's fault?

Oh yea. I completely forgot about the time the Israeli government decided to move into Palestinian land and remove the ctitzens of many villages to place them in camps. And that other time when Israel bombed neighborhoods in claims that it was a "military strategic mistake". My bad.

Listen buddy, Im not pro-Palestine if that's what you think, and I'm not saying Israelites are evil, but if you say Israel hasn't done anything bad or wrong to their Arab population is simply too naive and is very wrong, son.

Who's fault?
Arafat's fault, who else would walk away with such a deal? I was being sarcastic when I said it was the evil Israelis.

Arafat's fault, who else would walk away with such a deal? I was being sarcastic when I said it was the evil Israelis.

Yea. No sh*t. Sharon has done as much wrong as Arafat. It just that sorry you only watched American news networks and only got the filtered good of Israel and the bad of the "Terrorist Palestinians"

Oh yea. I completely forgot about the time the Israeli government decided to move into Palestinian land and remove the ctitzens of many villages to place them in camps. And that other time when Israel bombed neighborhoods in claims that it was a "military strategic mistake". My bad.

Listen buddy, Im not pro-Palestine if that's what you think, and I'm not saying Israelites are evil, but if you say Israel hasn't done anything bad or wrong to their Arab population is simply too naive and is very wrong, son.

You seem to be forgetting that the Arabs invaded Israel first because they refused to accept a Jewish state being established in areas where the Jews were a majority and where they had bought the land deeds from the Arabs in land that was non-arable.

As for the refugee camps, the Israelis didn't force them off the land. The resident Arabs had a choice to stay and 15% of the Israeli population is made up of the Palestinians that stayed in Israel, they are called "Israeli Arabs" by most.

They left the land because the Arab governments asked them to in preparation for an all out assault on the "Evil Zionist State."

As for civilian deaths among the Palestinians, the Israelis don't target them and civilian deaths happen in war. Israel avoids them though and the Palestinians don't. They target civilians in discotecques and buses.

Yea. No sh*t. Sharon has done as much wrong as Arafat. It just that sorry you only watched American news networks and only got the filtered good of Israel and the bad of the "Terrorist Palestinians"
And I pitty you for reading the anti-semetic European media who's hatred for the Jews has existed for centuries.

Sharon talked with Arafat and later Abbas, but every time he made progress Arafat would destroy it.

Yea. No sh*t. Sharon has done as much wrong as Arafat. It just that sorry you only watched American news networks and only got the filtered good of Israel and the bad of the "Terrorist Palestinians"

Actually, I've heard both sides of this conflict on our American News Network. I won't mention the channel though because its despised.

And also to the note on who's fault it was regarding the 97% land back, it was Abbas that concouled Arafat not to take it. Amazing how he learned from his mistake. Hopefully if he gets the same offer again, he'll take it.

You seem to be forgetting that the Arabs invaded Israel first because they refused to accept a Jewish state being established in areas where the Jews were a majority and where they had bought the land deeds from the Arabs in land that was non-arable.

As for the refugee camps, the Israelis didn't force them off the land. The resident Arabs had a choice to stay and 15% of the Israeli population is made up of the Palestinians that stayed in Israel, they are called "Israeli Arabs" by most.

They left the land because the Arab governments asked them to in preparation for an all out assault on the "Evil Zionist State."

As for civilian deaths among the Palestinians, the Israelis don't target them and civilian deaths happen in war. Israel avoids them though and the Palestinians don't. They target civilians in discotecques and buses.


HAHA.. Excuse me? I only read the first paragraph when I had to reply to this humurous lack of knowledge. You need a lesson in history, buddy.
The UN created the state of Israel OVER Palestine in 1948 as Palestine was under British rule because of the sympathy the world had over the holocaust and the wandering Jewsish villages around the world. Of course this made the Arabs angry!
If you're telling me that if a world organization in favor of the terrorists' point of view decides to install a haven somewhere in our territory and the people of the territory try to invade the newly installed nation, call it evil, but I call it justice.

Bah there's been enough pro-palestinian propaganda, I hope there will be peace, since with the death of Arafat (who has constantly block every possible peace-proposal ('I guess that with one more Intifada I'll be able to get a better deal' although it was mainly because he wasn't a politician but a terrorist (just look at the widespread corruption in Palestine when they were independent))

I hope that Abbas will put an end to the terrorism and will finally change something.

You also seem to be forgetting the terrorism Israel did to the Palestinians in he 50's, the reason Arafat became popular in the first place. Have you read the news from then?

Bah there's been enough pro-palestinian propaganda, I hope there will be peace, since with the death of Arafat (who has constantly block every possible peace-proposal ('I guess that with one more Intifada I'll be able to get a better deal' although it was mainly because he wasn't a politician but a terrorist (just look at the widespread corruption in Palestine when they were independent))

I hope that Abbas will put an end to the terrorism and will finally change something.


That's like asking the Americans to confront and accept China's rise in economic power and drop OUR economy.

Acts of Terrorism have a point, and you are all just smashing your fist down the table and declaring war against them instead of actually fucking listening. We would have no "Arab terrorism" (as some ignorants put it) had it not been for the rise in organizations like Al-Qaeda. And organizations like Al-Qaeda were formed because of US intervention in the middle east.
Now, had we just left the place on its own, and stopped the aim to make every single nation in the world democratic in our love to spread American principles of life, we would HAVE NO FOREIGN TERRORISM.
But you guys just go for the ol' "let's attack 'em".

Another one bites the dust.

You are all ignorants in history, human psychologies and behavior... but furthermost, human nature.

You are all ignorants in history

Don't care about the rest of the comment but this:

I hope you weren't directing this comment to me because my secondary Major here at the university I attend is History. I'm definitely not ignorant of history but am quite knowledgable in it.

Everyone is responsible for his own actions. I'm getting tired of that BS about 'ohhhhh but we made them do it.' hell no we didn't. They decided to become terrorists, they decided to kill civilians to further their ideals (unlike the Israelian army which aims at terrorists (which then hide behind innocent palestinians.) it's their own fault.

Everyone is responsible for his own actions. I'm getting tired of that BS about 'ohhhhh but we made them do it.' hell no we didn't. They decided to become terrorists, they decided to kill civilians to further their ideals (unlike the Israelian army which aims at terrorists (which then hide behind innocent palestinians.) it's their own fault.

So tell me, what would you do.

Everyone is responsible for his own actions. I'm getting tired of that BS about 'ohhhhh but we made them do it.' hell no we didn't. They decided to become terrorists, they decided to kill civilians to further their ideals (unlike the Israelian army which aims at terrorists (which then hide behind innocent palestinians.) it's their own fault.

Here here Qantrix! Put the blame where the blame is due. Its no one's fault but their own.

Don't care about the rest of the comment but this:

I hope you weren't directing this comment to me because my secondary Major here at the university I attend is History. I'm definitely not ignorant of history but am quite knowledgable in it.

Perhaps the wrong knowledge was majored? Or maybe you study another specific history which may be of no relation to this issue.

Quite interesting, it also appears you have no knowledge of the other categories. It seems you know but a percentage of what you speak of then.

Perhaps the wrong knowledge was majored? Or maybe you study another specific history which may be of no relation to this issue.

I study ALL HISTORY!!! I do know the history of the Middle East. I also know that it was Britain that held most of the Middle East too.

Quite interesting, it also appears you have no knowledge of the other categories. It seems you know but a percentage of what you speak of then.

Now your making assumptions about me that are totally false. My impression of you is that your anti-Israeli and that you don't want Israel to exist. Did you know that Israel fought many wars against their arab neighbors? Did you know that Israel recognized their Arab neighbors but the Arab World didn't recognize them? Did you know that Israel never attacked first but only in self-defense? Did you know that Israel won every war they fought with their Arab Neighbors even when they got jumped by them?

HAHA.. Excuse me? I only read the first paragraph when I had to reply to this humurous lack of knowledge. You need a lesson in history, buddy.
The UN created the state of Israel OVER Palestine in 1948 as Palestine was under British rule because of the sympathy the world had over the holocaust and the wandering Jewsish villages around the world. Of course this made the Arabs angry!
If you're telling me that if a world organization in favor of the terrorists' point of view decides to install a haven somewhere in our territory and the people of the territory try to invade the newly installed nation, call it evil, but I call it justice.
You don't get it. After the 1st major Aliyah (immigration wave) of 1880-1904, the Jews became the majority population in the areas that were partitioned to them by the UN. The state of Israel was created not because of sympathy for the Holocaust. It was to protect the Jews from Arab attacks. It is well documented that Arab raiders attacked Jewish farmers in Palestine. The land inhabited by the Jews was non-arable until the Jews made it bloom through irrigation. It was bought with money from the Arabs who thought they were selling worthless land.

It isn't justice when a nation that is created where a people are the majority is attacked. It's murder by Arabs who wanted to take back the land that the Jews made grow.

The Brits decided to create a Jewish state long before the Holocaust. See the Creel Comission and the Balfour Declaration. It would appear to me you aren't the student of history you think you are.

I can tell by your last hate filled paragraph that your vision of the Middle East isn't 2 nations living peacefully side by side as mine is, but rather the Jews being exterminated.

Is it just me or does a thread that even slightly alludes to 'Israel' get hijacked into 'Isreal bad, Palestinians good' thread?

I forgot to add this, even before the first major immigration wave in 1880, the Jews were the majority population of Jerusalem.

I study ALL HISTORY!!! I do know the history of the Middle East. I also know that it was Britain that held most of the Middle East too.



Now your making assumptions about me that are totally false. My impression of you is that your anti-Israeli and that you don't want Israel to exist. Did you know that Israel fought many wars against their arab neighbors? Did you know that Israel recognized their Arab neighbors but the Arab World didn't recognize them? Did you know that Israel never attacked first but only in self-defense? Did you know that Israel won every war they fought with their Arab Neighbors even when they got jumped by them?

Oh But of course. They HAVE to win. It's a puppet nation controlled by the UN and US.

As I mentioned before, I am not anti-Israel. I'm quite certain Iw as replying to your comment at that moment. And Of course the Arab nations attacked Israel, that was the regional vermin installed there by the UN, with no say from the Palestinians OR the British-controlled Arab communities (glad you commented on that fact) So no wonder they are so angry. They had no say, the UN did it by force, and now the largest economically and militarily backed nation known as America is behind Israel. Surely now you must figure why we have, shall I say, "Arab Terrorism".

The state evicts you from your home to place a homeless man and you have no say to the action done. Surrounding states agree to what has happened and none are willing to help you. Nor is there a law giving you rights to battle this effectively through law itself. However, a great community is out there ready to fight this. So, what remains of you? Either take it and swallow injustice, or fight it, unfortunately, through violence (terrorism, which minds you so far seems to be working if it got the US' attention)
That's where I believe the terrorists go wrong... in violence. But then again they are commited terrorists.

What would I do? Like most of the population there, live my life without becoming a terrorist!

I forgot to add this, even before the first major immigration wave in 1880, the Jews were the majority population of Jerusalem.

And? Jerusalem is not a large piece of land. It is not a nation. Surely, if the government enacts a national law that forces citizens to get a licence to start a business, it will include the city whose business runs with no licences.

My point is that fact is too small to change any view.

Oh But of course. They HAVE to win. It's a puppet nation controlled by the UN and US.
Ok, you just contradicted yourself so badly right here.

If it's a UN puppet how come it's had so many resolutions against them?

Oh, and why would the UN and US share joint control over Israel, if the UN and US have been shown to be unable to get along?!

And? Jerusalem is not a large piece of land. It is not a nation. Surely, if the government enacts a national law that forces citizens to get a licence to start a business, it will include the city whose business runs with no licences.

My point is that fact is too small to change any view.
Read my post before that one. Jews were a majority in the land partitioned to them. I posted that right above this one. I just forgot to put this in the larger post.

What would I do? Like most of the population there, live my life without becoming a terrorist!

Haha. So you would "take it" a government body takes over your land to place another society in it and you just "take it".

Haha, Funny. It can be pretty much agreed here that under realistic circumstances, you would fight like an animal to get your life back.

You say you have no bias CI, yet you call Israel the vermin and say the Arabs had a right to invade in 1948. No bias my ass.

You say you have no bias CI, yet you call Israel the vermin and say the Arabs had a right to invade in 1948. No bias my ass.
I'd say he's as "fair and balanced" as the people he's defending

Ok, you just contradicted yourself so badly right here.

If it's a UN puppet how come it's had so many resolutions against them?

Oh, and why would the UN and US share joint control over Israel, if the UN and US have been shown to be unable to get along?!

It's not a "join-control" situatuon where each one has to agree to the other's term before doing something. Two nations can trade as much as they want with any country without interferance from the other traders. What are you talking about.

And do not tell me the US has not been giving them a helping hand because they have been. Both economically and militarily, the US has given billions a year for Israel to do certain things. And much military equipment.

Also, the greater UN-US relationship friction began AFTER the invasion of Iraq. It wasn't as tense as before.

You say you have no bias CI, yet you call Israel the vermin and say the Arabs had a right to invade in 1948. No bias my ass.

I typed vermin to emphasize the Arab's despise of the Israeli state, not my personal feeling, Mr. Wit.

Of course the Arabs had a right to invade. That's the fair part! It was their land! Can you read at all?

CI, please it seems you ignored this post from earlier.
You don't get it. After the 1st major Aliyah (immigration wave) of 1880-1904, the Jews became the majority population in the areas that were partitioned to them by the UN. The state of Israel was created not because of sympathy for the Holocaust. It was to protect the Jews from Arab attacks. It is well documented that Arab raiders attacked Jewish farmers in Palestine. The land inhabited by the Jews was non-arable until the Jews made it bloom through irrigation. It was bought with money from the Arabs who thought they were selling worthless land.

It isn't justice when a nation that is created where a people are the majority is attacked. It's murder by Arabs who wanted to take back the land that the Jews made grow.

The Brits decided to create a Jewish state long before the Holocaust. See the Creel Comission and the Balfour Declaration. It would appear to me you aren't the student of history you think you are.

I can tell by your last hate filled paragraph that your vision of the Middle East isn't 2 nations living peacefully side by side as mine is, but rather the Jews being exterminated.

-snip-
You still didn't answer my question about all the UN resolutions against Israel, being Israel a UN puppet and all :rolleyes:

And yes I do know US props up Israel - I may disagree with that, but is there a legit government just yet (that DOESNT support terrorists) to give money to in Palestine?

You still didn't answer my question about all the UN resolutions against Israel, being Israel a UN puppet and all :rolleyes:

And yes I do know US props up Israel - I may disagree with that, but is there a legit government just yet (that DOESNT support terrorists) to give money to in Palestine?

There can be resolutions against certain aspects of Israel. That doesnt not mean Israel is on it's own. Precisely as you agreed that the US props up Israel you have the UN doing so through other means. But just as the US criticizes some of Israel's moves, the UN passes legislation against them on occasional matters. The HUGE reasons of that is to prevent Isreal from "doing what it wants" (exterminate the Palestinians) because the UN KNOWS the reason for many terrorism attacks in the middle east are caused by the oppression the UN is basicly "allowing" to occur there.

And as for the legit government supporting Palestine, No. Obviously this would associate the government into the global view that Palestine is composed of terrorists thus classifying that nation as a "terrorist" supporter.

Unfortunately, many Americans and their narrow minds just nods their heads and once again pluralizes the society as terrorist supporters. There are plenty of citizens in Palestine who want peace and no more bloodshed, just as there are Israelis. But for every right there is a wrong. Extremities are everywhere, and so I can bet you I can also find Israelites angered and wishing the Palestinians dead and gone, just as there are Palestinians (you've heard of THEM already)

I have never heard a more misinformed debate about Israel and Palestine.

The 2000 deal could not have been agreed to by Arafat, and that's why Israel offered it - they knew he would reject it without the inclusion of a right to return for Palestinian refugees and their families. A friend of mine who was born in a Palestine refugee camp in Jordan (he's a christian not an arab) does not have the right to return to his parents home town, neither does his mother who was born there. But any person from any country who is Jewish can move there any time they want. If Arafat signed up to this deal he would have been removed as leader instantly as this is a fundamental demand of Palestinian people.

Palestine has agreed to the current negotiated borders, even though it is significantly less than their original demands, they have also officially recognised Israels right to exist.

If Israel ended the occupation and stopped settling in the West bank and Gaza then it is obvious that any Palestinian leader would have an easier time stopping terrorists. The settlers could either live on as Palestinian citizens or leave for Israel.

Of course it is now unlikely that Sharon will be found guilty at the Hague of war crimes as the main prosecution witness has been killed by a car bomb outside his home in the Lebanon. If he had been found guilty the international community would have been forced to re-evaluate this man.

Your views are too sectarian and not based on facts. You should (with the exception of one or two) read more about the history of Israel before you form such shallow views.

There can be resolutions against certain aspects of Israel. That doesnt not mean Israel is on it's own. Precisely as you agreed that the US props up Israel you have the UN doing so through other means. But just as the US criticizes some of Israel's moves, the UN passes legislation against them on occasional matters. The HUGE reasons of that is to prevent Isreal from "doing what it wants" (exterminate the Palestinians) because the UN KNOWS the reason for many terrorism attacks in the middle east are caused by the oppression the UN is basicly "allowing" to occur there.
BS. Israel is the most criticized nation by the UN. How many resolutions are passed against Libya, Iran, North Korea, Palestinians, Saudi Arabia, Syria, etc. NONE!

I notice here frequent use of phrases like "in the area partitioned to them". That's precisely the problem, I think. If Israel withdrew into only the area originally partitioned to them, under the original 1948-1968 borders, even Hamas(as stated by the leader of Hamas, before Israel had him assassinated) would be willing to abide by those rules.
Furthermore, it's totally unrealistic to hold the government responsible for being able to control the actions of its people. It has made efforts to hold terrorists responsible, but Israel has responded to those efforts through massive invasions into land that the UN and 6 billion people have decided actually belongs to the Palestinians. A few Palestinian terrorists have done horrible things. A few Israelis have done horrible things. Guilt by association works in neither- or in any other - circumstance

I have never heard a more misinformed debate about Israel and Palestine.

The 2000 deal could not have been agreed to by Arafat, and that's why Israel offered it - they knew he would reject it without the inclusion of a right to return for Palestinian refugees and their families. A friend of mine who was born in a Palestine refugee camp in Jordan (he's a christian not an arab) does not have the right to return to his parents home town, neither does his mother who was born there. But any person from any country who is Jewish can move there any time they want. If Arafat signed up to this deal he would have been removed as leader instantly as this is a fundamental demand of Palestinian people.

Palestine has agreed to the current negotiated borders, even though it is significantly less than their original demands, they have also officially recognised Israels right to exist.

If Israel ended the occupation and stopped settling in the West bank and Gaza then it is obvious that any Palestinian leader would have an easier time stopping terrorists. The settlers could either live on as Palestinian citizens or leave for Israel.

Of course it is now unlikely that Sharon will be found guilty at the Hague of war crimes as the main prosecution witness has been killed by a car bomb outside his home in the Lebanon. If he had been found guilty the international community would have been forced to re-evaluate this man.

Your views are too sectarian and not based on facts. You should (with the exception of one or two) read more about the history of Israel before you form such shallow views.


Wow you offered the best post yet! Two comments though, Why do you say your friend is not arab? This seems highly unlikely to me, perhaps you meant not Muslim? There is a significant christian minority in Paletine, perhaps most notable the late Palestinian intellectual Edward Said. Also I don't know what you mean by the boarders are already decided. The green line? The Barak goverment in the end accepted the idea of using the green line as the basis for a two state solution with various territory swaps but Sharon and Netenyahu vehemently reject this.

BS. Israel is the most criticized nation by the UN. How many resolutions are passed against Libya, Iran, North Korea, Palestinians, Saudi Arabia, Syria, etc. NONE!

I think I already said Israel is critized (directly with the US, also metaphorically comparing the resolutions passed by the UN as their part on critizizing Israel)

As for the other nations you mentioned. Well let's see...
North Korea... nuclear weapons. obviously commited to attacking any enemy through any means
Syria and Lybia... more weapons. able to attack civilians at any cost
Saudi Arabia... well, their moniker is just Oil. you can't touch them!

I notice here frequent use of phrases like "in the area partitioned to them". That's precisely the problem, I think. If Israel withdrew into only the area originally partitioned to them, under the original 1948-1968 borders, even Hamas(as stated by the leader of Hamas, before Israel had him assassinated) would be willing to abide by those rules.
Furthermore, it's totally unrealistic to hold the government responsible for being able to control the actions of its people. It has made efforts to hold terrorists responsible, but Israel has responded to those efforts through massive invasions into land that the UN and 6 billion people have decided actually belongs to the Palestinians. A few Palestinian terrorists have done horrible things. A few Israelis have done horrible things. Guilt by association works in neither- or in any other - circumstance
Why should Israel move back to that area? If the Arabs didn't attack Israel they would be in control of that area. It's their own fault for trying to exterminate the Jews and I can't feel one bit sorry for something of their own doing. Besides, why should Israel give up Jerusalem? When under Arab control, no Jews could go there, but under Israeli control anyone can go there.
The PLO supported and even carried out the terrorist attacks so. Arafat funneled his fortune and the aid money send to him to the terrorist groups.

North Korea... nuclear weapons. obviously commited to attacking any enemy through any means
Syria and Lybia... more weapons. able to attack civilians at any cost
Saudi Arabia... well, their moniker is just Oil. you can't touch them!
There are reasons to condemn these people, but the UN doesn't. PLease tell me why.

Why should Israel move back to that area? If the Arabs didn't attack Israel they would be in control of that area. It's their own fault for trying to exterminate the Jews and I can't feel one bit sorry for something of their own doing. Besides, why should Israel give up Jerusalem? When under Arab control, no Jews could go there, but under Israeli control anyone can go there.
The PLO supported and even carried out the terrorist attacks so. Arafat funneled his fortune and the aid money send to him to the terrorist groups.

I don't know. That comment seemed personal, as if you have a natural hate against Arabs and won't allow them to speak.
Yea. You may say "but they had the time to do it and they didn't" well, obviously I'm speaking about you personally.

If an Israeli came to me to talk about the issue in a fair way rather than commenting on how bad the Palestianians are and ACCEPTING the wring doings Israel has done (they are No saints. That's what I've been trying to talk about here and you all keep reverting to anti-Palestine comments) I'd listen to him or her. I'd let them have a word. And yes, I'd also hear the terrorist. Because they attack for a reason, not to just "kill people" for fun as you seemed to have been expressing.

I don't know. That comment seemed personal, as if you have a natural hate against Arabs and won't allow them to speak.
Yea. You may say "but they had the time to do it and they didn't" well, obviously I'm speaking about you personally.

If an Israeli came to me to talk about the issue in a fair way rather than commenting on how bad the Palestianians are and ACCEPTING the wring doings Israel has done (they are No saints. That's what I've been trying to talk about here and you all keep reverting to anti-Palestine comments) I'd listen to him or her. I'd let them have a word. And yes, I'd also hear the terrorist. Because they attack for a reason, not to just "kill people" for fun as you seemed to have been expressing.
You missed my point. I asked why Israel should give up what they earned just to apease terrorists. It isn't Israel's fault the Arabs lost the land they got in the partition. It is the Arabs fault and that is why they suffer today. If they didn't invade Israel and try to exterminate my religion they would be doing fine today. Israel had no ambitions to attack the Palestinians after tha partition, but the Palestinians wanted to kill the Israelis.

Oh But of course. They HAVE to win. It's a puppet nation controlled by the UN and US.

How are they a puppet of us? It sure as hell ain't a puppet of the UN due to all the resolutions against Israel and NONE against the Palestinians.

As I mentioned before, I am not anti-Israel. I'm quite certain Iw as replying to your comment at that moment. And Of course the Arab nations attacked Israel, that was the regional vermin installed there by the UN, with no say from the Palestinians OR the British-controlled Arab communities (glad you commented on that fact) So no wonder they are so angry. They had no say, the UN did it by force, and now the largest economically and militarily backed nation known as America is behind Israel. Surely now you must figure why we have, shall I say, "Arab Terrorism".

If your not anti-israeli then why are you making anti-israel comments? Regional Vermin? To whom? Did you know that the Arab Nations asked the Palestinians to leave so they could eliminate them? Most did and you know what? The Arab nations didn't let the refugees into their nations. The Arab states lost the war and lost every war since then. They were angry not because of that but because the state of Israel existed. Its a religious fight. How did the UN do it by force may I ask? As far as I know, no force was used but by Israel itself when her neighbors attacked her.

The state evicts you from your home to place a homeless man and you have no say to the action done. Surrounding states agree to what has happened and none are willing to help you. Nor is there a law giving you rights to battle this effectively through law itself. However, a great community is out there ready to fight this. So, what remains of you? Either take it and swallow injustice, or fight it, unfortunately, through violence (terrorism, which minds you so far seems to be working if it got the US' attention)

Actually, the state cannot evict you to allow a homeless man to take over your home. The only way the state can evict you is if you don't pay rent or are delinquent in your payments on mortgages or something. As for terrorism, we've been fighting terror since the 80s and maybe into the 70s. At one point, it was easy to know who did it. Now we have Al Qaeda that has been attacking us since 1993 (1st World Trade Center attack) and what have we done? Nothing except launch cruise missiles that did crap. Then in 2001 we lose 3000 citizens and we finally have a President that is taking the fight to the enemy and to those that support them.

That's where I believe the terrorists go wrong... in violence. But then again they are commited terrorists.

Here we can agree. Violence is not the answer. I guess no one has learned that you don't gain what you want through terror or violence. Gandi did alot for India through Non-violent protests as did Martin Luther King Jr. If you protest things peacefully, People will be willing to talk. Start using violence and you'll get violence in return.

How are they a puppet of us? It sure as hell ain't a puppet of the UN due to all the resolutions against Israel and NONE against the Palestinians.



If your not anti-israeli then why are you making anti-israel comments? Regional Vermin? To whom? Did you know that the Arab Nations asked the Palestinians to leave so they could eliminate them? Most did and you know what? The Arab nations didn't let the refugees into their nations. The Arab states lost the war and lost every war since then. They were angry not because of that but because the state of Israel existed. Its a religious fight. How did the UN do it by force may I ask? As far as I know, no force was used but by Israel itself when her neighbors attacked her.



Actually, the state cannot evict you to allow a homeless man to take over your home. The only way the state can evict you is if you don't pay rent or are delinquent in your payments on mortgages or something. As for terrorism, we've been fighting terror since the 80s and maybe into the 70s. At one point, it was easy to know who did it. Now we have Al Qaeda that has been attacking us since 1993 (1st World Trade Center attack) and what have we done? Nothing except launch cruise missiles that did crap. Then in 2001 we lose 3000 citizens and we finally have a President that is taking the fight to the enemy and to those that support them.



Here we can agree. Violence is not the answer. I guess no one has learned that you don't gain what you want through terror or violence. Gandi did alot for India through Non-violent protests as did Martin Luther King Jr. If you protest things peacefully, People will be willing to talk. Start using violence and you'll get violence in return.



The example of the eviction is clearly situational as to what happened when the UN forced the creation of the sate of Israel.

Please read all the comments made before replying like this. You obviously made all those paragraphs useless since I had already explained myself to all of it (except for the last one, as it needs no explanation)
You spent so much time going over what I said earlier and editing the quotes and numerous copying and pasting that you missed my answers to it all.

There are reasons to condemn these people, but the UN doesn't. PLease tell me why.

Russia, China, and France!

And once again I respond to ignorance, for the last time.

"What did we do to the terrorists" that they attack us? Geez! I only said twice and related to it about 6 times by now.... It was due to our support of Israel and intervention in the middle east that the terrorists organization declared war on America!
Now, Corneliu, will I have to say it again? or will your little close-minded American mind be set into confusion.

And once again, for the last time. What did we do to the terrorist that they attack us? Geez! I only said 3 or 4 times. It was due to our support of Israel and intervention in the middle east that the terrorists organization declared war on America!
Now, Corneliu, will I have to say it again?

Well I know why Bin Laden is attacking us! Because of our soldiers on Saudi Soil at the invite of the Saudi Royal Family to protect the Kingdom from Saddam Hussein when he invaded Kuwait in August 1990. Bin Laden offered his services to the King and he turned him down for us "infidels"! He objected to having "Christain Soldiers" on Holy ground and thus embarked on a war with the US.

As always in politics, we plan for the worst and hope for the best. Sadly, the Palestinian best right now seems to be a moderate-minded reformer with a poor success rate against hardliners. Still, there is hope.
The thing is, however, that if he is sincere, he'll have plenty of outside help. Out of all of the Palestinians that voted for him, at least a few must be big fans of him. None of the terrorists groups launched a major attack between Yasser Arafat's death and Abbas's election. And now that Arafat is gone, everyone is much more willing to work with the Palestinians.

Well I know why Bin Laden is attacking us! Because of our soldiers on Saudi Soil at the invite of the Saudi Royal Family to protect the Kingdom from Saddam Hussein when he invaded Kuwait in August 1990. Bin Laden offered his services to the King and he turned him down for us "infidels"! He objected to having "Christain Soldiers" on Holy ground and thus embarked on a war with the US.

That's clearly not the only reason. He has mentioned Israel many times on many videos.

That's clearly not the only reason. He has mentioned Israel many times on many videos.

Read the 9/11 Commission Report. That was in there. He may have mentioned Israel several times but he hates the Jews just as he hates America so naturally he'll say Israel.

Your right, he did mention Israel several times and its true that we are supporting them but who else is supporting Israel?

The thing is, however, that if he is sincere, he'll have plenty of outside help. Out of all of the Palestinians that voted for him, at least a few must be big fans of him. None of the terrorists groups launched a major attack between Yasser Arafat's death and Abbas's election. And now that Arafat is gone, everyone is much more willing to work with the Palestinians.

True, and that's the hope I was talking about. In the end, the international community can only provide a stage for the actors; not write the script. We can provide support and assistance, but their leadership must come from inside the Palestinian ranks. Abbas COULD be the catalyst for a new round of peacemaking.

Israel has an important opportunity here as well, a combination of unilateral movements that help secure its security and careful non-intervention in Palestinian affairs might smooth out the rough political process.

Too many factors involved to be sure of anything at this point, but a changing of the guard might be a great help. Hell, things have been bad for so long people can't help but be positive about this.

Anyone who finds any reason to a terrorist's acts should have their families blown up or beheaded while they take the bus or go to a pizza parlor.

After all, it's the victim's fault, eh? :rolleyes:

Wow you offered the best post yet! Two comments though, Why do you say your friend is not arab? This seems highly unlikely to me, perhaps you meant not Muslim? There is a significant christian minority in Paletine, perhaps most notable the late Palestinian intellectual Edward Said. Also I don't know what you mean by the boarders are already decided. The green line? The Barak goverment in the end accepted the idea of using the green line as the basis for a two state solution with various territory swaps but Sharon and Netenyahu vehemently reject this.

I porbably should have said "not muslim" but he is also not an arab, being of Armenian descent. Yes I meant the green line although which particualr line is not the most important thing, more important is having agreed borders that Israel does not think they can ignore whenever they choose.

Hmm, I wonder why Arafat didn't make a counter-offer in 2000. If he really wanted to negotiate, you'd think he would've put in his input and made a counter-offer, rather than responding with war.