NationStates Jolt Archive


Where would you rather live?

Dontgonearthere
09-01-2005, 18:48
Just curious.
After the results of the 'Best/Worst Country in the World Poll' (America won both, as I recall), this might be interesting.
Money101
09-01-2005, 18:54
alaska if america would butt out
Eutrusca
09-01-2005, 18:56
Just curious.
After the results of the 'Best/Worst Country in the World Poll' (America won both, as I recall), this might be interesting.
I live where I live right now because I chose to live where I live right now. Would I move? No. I live in a small town in North Carolina, USA, right between two of the largest cities in the State, so I have the best of both worlds ... small town atmosphere and all the big city amenities within a few mintues drive.

All but one of my children live here in the same town, and all but two of my grandchildren. I ride my mountain bike virtually everywhere except when the weather doesn't permit. There are supermarkets, drugstores, restaurants and a theatre within walking distance. There are several parks nearby, a small library, and even a WalMart! :D

Why would I want to leave?
Aligned Planets
09-01-2005, 18:57
ummm...

I live in the UK, and like it there. So none of the options apply.
Marabal
09-01-2005, 18:58
Yeah, you need to add on tons more countries. You just picked random ones.
Greedy Pig
09-01-2005, 19:03
US by far.
Ultra Cool People
09-01-2005, 19:39
I have lived in both the UK and America, as well as traveled a good bit of the planet. It really comes down to where in a particular country you intend to be. I like the UK, but mostly just north and west of the M25, but London is a kick for a Saturday day trip. Yes even with the taxes and the road system, I would love to live in England again. Where else in the world will you see a supermarket devote an entire isle to nothing but baked beans.

The North of America and Canada can be breathtaking. I love the Connecticut River Valley area of Massachusetts. Seattle is super cool, and the Puget Sound area with the exception of Tacoma.

The strangest place I've ever been was Salt lake City. I spent a year there one week. The place is actually riddled with earth quake faults and they say that when the big one hits the ground will be shaken to quicksand and mix with the Great Salt Lake, then whole city will sink. May have been why I felt uptight. Great Micro brewery there though.

I'd live in Singapore but the weather's like a Florida Summer 365 days of the year. If you like shopping and air conditioning Singapore is your place. Mall connects into mall in a massive shopping complex. Stay by the Sun City complex. If you go to Sim Lim square tell the gangsters who pirate software I said hello. Durian fruit rocks.

Been to Israel and Istanbul. They both kind of reminded me of Mexico. Though cool places they all have a lot of change to go through before they settle down.
Sanctaphrax
09-01-2005, 19:45
1) London
2) Tel Aviv (It really is a stunning place)
3) Rome
Hogsweat
09-01-2005, 19:46
CRAP! I clicked on South Africa Instead of Soviet Russia.

If Britain was there i would have picked it.
IDF
09-01-2005, 19:52
US over any nation in the world. I'm glad that I don't have to fork over 50% of my salary as is done in other nations where they have 10% unemployment (see Western Europe.)

I love where I live in NW Indiana, near Lake Michigan, good schools, small town atmosphere, near Chicago, a free life, the ability to be what I want to be in my adult life, free markets, the right to either partake or avoid military service (I'm going to partake in it BTW), cheaper gas prices than the rest of the Western World, good food, good homes, good healthcare, etc.

America is a paradise. That is why millions have risked their lives to come here.
Hogsweat
09-01-2005, 19:55
US over any nation in the world. I'm glad that I don't have to fork over 50% of my salary as is done in other nations where they have 10% unemployment (see Western Europe.)

I
This doesn't happen in Britain...
IDF
09-01-2005, 19:56
This doesn't happen in Britain...
OK, not Britain, but it does in France, Germany, Netherlands, and most other Euro nations and with a rising Euro to a falling Dollar it will get worse.
Myrmidonisia
09-01-2005, 19:57
I live where I live right now because I chose to live where I live right now. Would I move? No. I live in a small town in North Carolina, USA, right between two of the largest cities in the State, so I have the best of both worlds ... small town atmosphere and all the big city amenities within a few mintues drive.

All but one of my children live here in the same town, and all but two of my grandchildren. I ride my mountain bike virtually everywhere except when the weather doesn't permit. There are supermarkets, drugstores, restaurants and a theatre within walking distance. There are several parks nearby, a small library, and even a WalMart! :D

Why would I want to leave?
Because of the Walmart. You're too close to civilization!
L-rouge
09-01-2005, 20:06
Just curious.
After the results of the 'Best/Worst Country in the World Poll' (America won both, as I recall), this might be interesting.
You've used Countries at completely different economic and social divisions. You can't compare modern US with 1960's Soviet Russia or 1980's South Africa.
The pole is rigged in order to provide the obvious answer of the US as it is the only one that provides even a remote chance of services and quality of life that the modern Westerner expects. If you were comparing 1960's US with 1960's USSR then the pole would work, as is it is extremely biased. Why not compare Modern US with Modern European nations (Britain, France, Germany, Ireland, Denmark etc), then the pole would be much more viable. IMHO!
Kryozerkia
09-01-2005, 20:14
Def NOT the states.
Colodia
09-01-2005, 20:19
dude spelled Colombia wrong....I'm insulted
Nadkor
09-01-2005, 20:20
like my sister said when we were in the states visiting her:
its just so....80s. its like they realised they were ahead of everyone else, stopped to let them catch up, and just never bothered going again.
and i hate the fake politeness, insincere people piss me off. here, everyone is genuinely nice and friendly to each other, instead of being all polite then turning round and going "wankers".

I would much rather live here in northern ireland. or better still, switzerland.
Greedy Pig
09-01-2005, 20:23
I'd live in Singapore but the weather's like a Florida Summer 365 days of the year. If you like shopping and air conditioning Singapore is your place. Mall connects into mall in a massive shopping complex. Stay by the Sun City complex. If you go to Sim Lim square tell the gangsters who pirate software I said hello. Durian fruit rocks.

Singapore's not too bad. Walk around in Sun-Tec City complex on Sundays. You'll find a massive crazy crowd outside building 2 (I think it's 2). Kiasu Singaporeans would wait for 2 hours in line to get inside the Rock Hall. A church is there. :D

Singapore's good to shop. However bad to stay unless you got money and a high earning job. The Asian working mentality (kiasu) of eating each other alive to get to the top is crazy. Not a good place to work IMO.
Eutrusca
09-01-2005, 20:24
Because of the Walmart. You're too close to civilization!
Hmmm. You might just have a point there! :D
Chahles
09-01-2005, 20:28
New England in the States is probabally my favorite place in the world.
Celtlund
09-01-2005, 20:28
I live in a suburb of Tulsa, Oklahoma but will retire in a few years to a small town in Alabama, just north of Birmingham.

I've lived in Spain, just outside of Madrid and loved it. I guess that would be my second choice. Live in Thailand, south of Bangkok and that was very nice but a little hot in the summer. Riyadh, Saudi Arabia is definitely out. To hot even in October. England isn’t to bad but the weather can be atrocious, at least around Mildenhall. (sp?)

No. Think I’ll continue living in the U.S. and just visit other places. :)
Fass
09-01-2005, 20:29
You've used Countries at completely different economic and social divisions. You can't compare modern US with 1960's Soviet Russia or 1980's South Africa.
The pole is rigged in order to provide the obvious answer of the US as it is the only one that provides even a remote chance of services and quality of life that the modern Westerner expects. If you were comparing 1960's US with 1960's USSR then the pole would work, as is it is extremely biased. Why not compare Modern US with Modern European nations (Britain, France, Germany, Ireland, Denmark etc), then the pole would be much more viable. IMHO!

I concur. This is one of the worst. Polls. Ever.
Me 3
09-01-2005, 20:30
It really comes down to where in a particular country you intend to be. I like the UK, but mostly just north and west of the M25, but London is a kick for a Saturday day trip.

The east is good too!

Anyway I don't know which one I would rather live in having never been to any. It does not seem to have that many countries on.
Ultra Cool People
09-01-2005, 20:31
OK, not Britain, but it does in France, Germany, Netherlands, and most other Euro nations and with a rising Euro to a falling Dollar it will get worse.

Wait till you travel around a bit. In every country there are trade offs. A lot of the EU trade off productivity for a more leisurely lifestyle. Everybody in Europe shuts down their country for an entire month during summer either July or August. Then there are the legal holidays which the English have fewer of than anybody else except the US. That's why you see so many French people in cafes, they have the day off,.....again.
Ultra Cool People
09-01-2005, 20:38
Singapore's not too bad. Walk around in Sun-Tec City complex on Sundays. You'll find a massive crazy crowd outside building 2 (I think it's 2). Kiasu Singaporeans would wait for 2 hours in line to get inside the Rock Hall. A church is there. :D

Singapore's good to shop. However bad to stay unless you got money and a high earning job. The Asian working mentality (kiasu) of eating each other alive to get to the top is crazy. Not a good place to work IMO.

Yeah I like the BIG fountain in Sun Tec. It's suppose to be the biggest one in the world. Loads of restaurants on the first level.

Oh yeah, the Wet Markets!
Zombie Lagoon
09-01-2005, 20:46
Wow! I cant believe somebody put Oman up. I used to live there for half my life. Its a great place to live and any who says otherwise, can say it, because its there opinion.

(Not Sarcasm)
Alien Born
09-01-2005, 20:50
Incredible how the discussion seems to always be USA vs Europe, with sidelines from Canada and occasionally South East Asia.

The list of choices on the poll is clearly eclectic and I was left without any real chance of voting, but never mind. I live in Brazil, which, like most countries has its problems, but just fewer of them, with better weather to have them in, and with happier people to laugh about them. Probably one of the best places to live that exists. No commercial pressure as in the USA, no status pressure as in Europe, just do what you do, and enjoy life.

Other interesting options would have been places like Sweden, South Korea, the Seychelles, Jamaica, Cuba etc. (just some places that came to mind, no particular connection between them that I know of)
IDF
09-01-2005, 20:53
Wait till you travel around a bit. In every country there are trade offs. A lot of the EU trade off productivity for a more leisurely lifestyle. Everybody in Europe shuts down their country for an entire month during summer either July or August. Then there are the legal holidays which the English have fewer of than anybody else except the US. That's why you see so many French people in cafes, they have the day off,.....again.
They have days off alright. Over 10% of the working force is off permanently as they can't find jobs in the crappy socialist economy.
Zombie Lagoon
09-01-2005, 20:57
They have days off alright. Over 10% of the working force is off permanently as they can't find jobs in the crappy socialist economy.

Yes, because theres loads of socialist economies. And like there isnt lots of people unemployed in America right now.
Dontgonearthere
09-01-2005, 21:03
You've used Countries at completely different economic and social divisions. You can't compare modern US with 1960's Soviet Russia or 1980's South Africa.
The pole is rigged in order to provide the obvious answer of the US as it is the only one that provides even a remote chance of services and quality of life that the modern Westerner expects. If you were comparing 1960's US with 1960's USSR then the pole would work, as is it is extremely biased. Why not compare Modern US with Modern European nations (Britain, France, Germany, Ireland, Denmark etc), then the pole would be much more viable. IMHO!
This is a joke in response to the 'What is the best country in the world' and 'what is the worst country in the world', both of which contained countries similar to mine (Minus the SU/South Africa, because I needed some fillers), both of which the US 'won', IE; People thought that North Korea was a better place than the US.
If it were serious, I would have givin better options.
Ultra Cool People
09-01-2005, 21:04
They have days off alright. Over 10% of the working force is off permanently as they can't find jobs in the crappy socialist economy.

Yeah and 5.6% in ours, with off shoring making more everyday. God help us if the dollar continues to slide because we don't manufacture jack anymore in the US and all a weak dollar means is inflation on consumer goods.

There are trade offs in every country some just have better restaurants and scenery
L-rouge
09-01-2005, 21:04
This is a joke in response to the 'What is the best country in the world' and 'what is the worst country in the world', both of which contained countries similar to mine (Minus the SU/South Africa, because I needed some fillers), both of which the US 'won', IE; People thought that North Korea was a better place than the US.
If it were serious, I would have givin better options.
Fair enough. Sorry to have tried to overanalyse your joke! :p
IDF
09-01-2005, 21:16
Yeah and 5.6% in ours, with off shoring making more everyday. God help us if the dollar continues to slide because we don't manufacture jack anymore in the US and all a weak dollar means is inflation on consumer goods.

There are trade offs in every country some just have better restaurants and scenery
5.4% and dropping with 2.2 million new jobs last year. Inflation on imported goods means more domestic manufacturing and thus job creation. It also means the French and Germans are going to get it up the ***.
IDF
09-01-2005, 21:18
Yes, because theres loads of socialist economies. And like there isnt lots of people unemployed in America right now.
Unemployment in the USA is the lowest in the Western world.
Dogburg
09-01-2005, 21:26
Def NOT the states.

But in basically all the other countries, either your freedoms would be greatly downsized in some way, or you'd be at risk from violence of some description.

Since when did freedom and safety become uncool?
L-rouge
09-01-2005, 21:32
Unemployment in the USA is the lowest in the Western world.
Britain's unemployment is currently 2.2%. Isn't that lower than the 5.4% you're quoting for the US?
Chess Squares
09-01-2005, 21:37
Yeah, you need to add on tons more countries. You just picked random ones.
they arnt random, wish they were, the yare all designed to make the us look good
Dontgonearthere
09-01-2005, 21:42
they arnt random, wish they were, the yare all designed to make the us look good
Last post on page two. Read it.
Zombie Lagoon
09-01-2005, 21:54
Yay someone else voted for Oman, Come on Oman.

Edit:Yay aswell 100th post
International Terrans
09-01-2005, 22:08
Unemployment in the USA is the lowest in the Western world.
Know why that is? It's because if you don't work in the United States, you die. That's it. The government and social programmes make it so that anybody who doesn't work cannot eat (ever heard of Welfare For Work programmes?), and they're completely screwed.

Anybody who says that the United States is a paradise hasn't travelled anywhere. I go to the Deep South and I see disgusting poverty everywhere. As soon as I even cross the border from Ontario to upstate New York, everywhere I go I see dirty, poverty-filled communities.

How can this exist in a paradise? Unless, of course, you're a member of the upper class and don't even notice such goings-on.
Myrmidonisia
09-01-2005, 23:35
I live in a suburb of Tulsa, Oklahoma but will retire in a few years to a small town in Alabama, just north of Birmingham.
You're not going to Huntsville are you?
Chess Squares
09-01-2005, 23:38
You're not going to Huntsville are you?
if huntsville is your idea of a "small town" in alabama, youve been in real states too long, huntsville is like the 3rd biggest city after mobile..
The Great Sixth Reich
09-01-2005, 23:40
Soviet Union didn't actually have good health care then or even now... :)

Africa is just too unstable.

It's impossible to get a LEGAL job in Afganistan (the most popuplar job is... Drug Farming. And I'm not kidding! :))

US really doesn't have any major problems, especially if you live in the country. You got solid nation secruity and a clean enviroment in the countryside. The only problem the the amount of liberal tree-hugers, but you can just ignore them. :)
Myrmidonisia
09-01-2005, 23:42
if huntsville is your idea of a "small town" in alabama, youve been in real states too long, huntsville is like the 3rd biggest city after mobile..
Small is relative. B'ham is huge. I live near Atlanta and it's even huger. I think it would be pretty refreshing to live in a town like Huntsville. When I was working for Georgia Tech, we used to have a lot of contracts with the Army missile folks, so I've been there a number of times.

My wife's roots are in Atmore, AL. That's pretty small, but her folks grew up in Halls Fork, AL. That's a general store at the intersection of a couple pig trails. That's small. But calling it a town is a stretch.
Alien Born
09-01-2005, 23:44
Know why that is? It's because if you don't work in the United States, you die. That's it. The government and social programmes make it so that anybody who doesn't work cannot eat (ever heard of Welfare For Work programmes?), and they're completely screwed.

Anybody who says that the United States is a paradise hasn't travelled anywhere. I go to the Deep South and I see disgusting poverty everywhere. As soon as I even cross the border from Ontario to upstate New York, everywhere I go I see dirty, poverty-filled communities.

How can this exist in a paradise? Unless, of course, you're a member of the upper class and don't even notice such goings-on.

The USA has an upper class? I thought they just had rich and poor.
Latady
09-01-2005, 23:47
You must admit it isn't a very varied menu
Dontgonearthere
09-01-2005, 23:53
You must admit it isn't a very varied menu
>_>
Myrmidonisia
09-01-2005, 23:56
Know why that is? It's because if you don't work in the United States, you die. That's it. The government and social programmes make it so that anybody who doesn't work cannot eat (ever heard of Welfare For Work programmes?), and they're completely screwed.

Anybody who says that the United States is a paradise hasn't travelled anywhere. I go to the Deep South and I see disgusting poverty everywhere. As soon as I even cross the border from Ontario to upstate New York, everywhere I go I see dirty, poverty-filled communities.

How can this exist in a paradise? Unless, of course, you're a member of the upper class and don't even notice such goings-on.
This is about the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Not a single thing about this post rings true. I dont think you have set the first foot into the South. I don't know much about upstate New York, but places like Syracuse and Rochester are pretty nice.

Until Johnson's Great Society in the '60s we didn't have much of a welfare society. Churches and other foundations took care of the really poor. After the government took over welfare, we developed a dependant class of citizens. Fathers left households and mothers had more children to make more money. Pretty soon, the kids didn't know how to be independant. Only how to wait for the first of the month to get the welfare.

That's what the Welfare to Work program is trying to combat. And it does. People are leaving welfare rolls and becoming independant. There are provisions for daycare, medical care, etc, while the welfare recipients are in transition. Plus the transitional period is pretty long-- two or three years, I think.

Now what's better, providing a strong incentive to become independant, or encouraging state dependance for the generations?
The Great Sixth Reich
10-01-2005, 00:06
This is about the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Not a single thing about this post rings true. I dont think you have set the first foot into the South. I don't know much about upstate New York, but places like Syracuse and Rochester are pretty nice.

International Terrans really offended me there. I live there! :upyours:

Poverty? Really? If you considering living in a barn poverty, then Upstate New York has a lot of it. But there really isn't much poverty here, except in Amsterdam and Troy, but those are ghettos anyway.

We actually are home to a lot of millionares here, if you bothered to notice.
The Great Sixth Reich
10-01-2005, 00:10
The USA has an upper class? I thought they just had rich and poor.

Rich or Poor?

What the heck does that make most people then? I don't live in box or a manor, so what am I?
Pschycotic Pschycos
10-01-2005, 00:10
Sorry, but America kicks ass!!! :headbang:
Dontgonearthere
10-01-2005, 00:11
This is about the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Not a single thing about this post rings true. I dont think you have set the first foot into the South. I don't know much about upstate New York, but places like Syracuse and Rochester are pretty nice.

Until Johnson's Great Society in the '60s we didn't have much of a welfare society. Churches and other foundations took care of the really poor. After the government took over welfare, we developed a dependant class of citizens. Fathers left households and mothers had more children to make more money. Pretty soon, the kids didn't know how to be independant. Only how to wait for the first of the month to get the welfare.

That's what the Welfare to Work program is trying to combat. And it does. People are leaving welfare rolls and becoming independant. There are provisions for daycare, medical care, etc, while the welfare recipients are in transition. Plus the transitional period is pretty long-- two or three years, I think.

Now what's better, providing a strong incentive to become independant, or encouraging state dependance for the generations?
That, and something like 30 percent of the national budget goes to welfare programs. (And thats from an anti-war website :P)
Ultra Cool People
10-01-2005, 00:23
5.4% and dropping with 2.2 million new jobs last year. Inflation on imported goods means more domestic manufacturing and thus job creation. It also means the French and Germans are going to get it up the ***.


Well yes, but the quality of jobs and pay remain a factor. The tech sector is slumped and with factories and any job that can be done on a computer and a phone off shoring, it won't get that much better any time soon. A lot of your assumptions about the economy are based on an America that hasn't existed for half a decade.

As far as America biting the big one effecting France and Germany? Not much. Any drop in exports to the US is easily made up in other markets. You didn't see either country's economy dipping that hard after 9-11. Besides they supply a lot of luxury goods, the very rich will continue to buy their French wine and BMWs.

A sliding dollar will hurt the Chinese, which is a concern since they are currently buying up our ballooning debt. That would have an unfortunate effect on the dollar.

Well good luck in your sector of America remaining the paradise that you see it to be now. Things do change, but let's hope they're for the better.
Conceptualists
10-01-2005, 00:25
Possibly South Africa, I have family there so...

Or maybe Eritrea.
Superpower07
10-01-2005, 00:41
I'm fine living here in the USA
AfrikaZkorps
10-01-2005, 01:22
Know why that is? It's because if you don't work in the United States, you die. That's it. The government and social programmes make it so that anybody who doesn't work cannot eat (ever heard of Welfare For Work programmes?), and they're completely screwed..

...Of course that is how a captialist society should be ran, agin most European are so used to the government babying them that they don't have time to notice that AMERICA is the richest country in the world, they must be doing something right, right? Socialism as it is in Europe is the worst thing since communism. I bet the USA has the smallest percent of government employed citizens.
International Terrans
10-01-2005, 02:01
...Of course that is how a captialist society should be ran, agin most European are so used to the government babying them that they don't have time to notice that AMERICA is the richest country in the world, they must be doing something right, right? Socialism as it is in Europe is the worst thing since communism. I bet the USA has the smallest percent of government employed citizens.
I'm not European.

And while America may be the richest country in the world, once you take out the 10% wage earners of both things, you really begin to see the difference. Your average European is probably going to be better off, happier and more fufilled than your average American.

International Terrans really offended me there. I live there!
You can't stand someone insulting where you live? Get used to it. I certainly have.

It seriously is poor. Notice how the poor areas of countries always vote for right-wing parties (as upstate New York did) when they're the exact same parties that are keeping them poor?

Don't talk to me about millionaires. Priding yourself on having a bunch of money-grubbing capitalists around is one of the saddest things I've ever heard.

This is about the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Not a single thing about this post rings true. I dont think you have set the first foot into the South. I don't know much about upstate New York, but places like Syracuse and Rochester are pretty nice.

Until Johnson's Great Society in the '60s we didn't have much of a welfare society. Churches and other foundations took care of the really poor. After the government took over welfare, we developed a dependant class of citizens. Fathers left households and mothers had more children to make more money. Pretty soon, the kids didn't know how to be independant. Only how to wait for the first of the month to get the welfare.

That's what the Welfare to Work program is trying to combat. And it does. People are leaving welfare rolls and becoming independant. There are provisions for daycare, medical care, etc, while the welfare recipients are in transition. Plus the transitional period is pretty long-- two or three years, I think.

Now what's better, providing a strong incentive to become independant, or encouraging state dependance for the generations?
You're wrong. Actually, I have. I've travelled through most Southern states at at least one point in my life, and this was the distinct impression I've got. The people were not rich, in any way shape or form.

And guess what? The churches and other organisations were swamped, like always. The institution of welfare helped to demolish the complete poverty of the proletariat, and now programmes like Welfare To Work are in turn demolishing welfare.

How do you know this? Do you know people on Welfare To Work? You see, the jobs they recieve are the worst in society, ones paying minimum wage, with little or no opportunity for advancement, and poor working conditions. There's a reason they don't vote Republican.

Which is better: being sucked into a mindless job that you work at for the rest of your life, or taking time to find a decent job that actually fufills what you want to do in life?

You sound like a damned social Darwinist. "Work or die" is a pretty good incentive to work, but all it creates is a perfect permanent social lower class, which is impossible to escape. Welfare helps people survive while they attempt to leave.

Never, in my entire life, did I ever picture someone saying it's wrong to help those in need. Getting them to help themselves simply doesn't work.
Pan slavia
10-01-2005, 02:07
I'd live in the soviet union 1960 as long as i could be in siberia or goegria both are really magnificent as long as you dont mind the ruble or gulags
Myrmidonisia
10-01-2005, 02:31
You're wrong. Actually, I have. I've travelled through most Southern states at at least one point in my life, and this was the distinct impression I've got. The people were not rich, in any way shape or form.

And guess what? The churches and other organisations were swamped, like always. The institution of welfare helped to demolish the complete poverty of the proletariat, and now programmes like Welfare To Work are in turn demolishing welfare.

You've missed a lot of the South. Still sounds like you are getting your impressions from Gone With the Wind or Deliverance. I've camped and hiked most of the southern portions of the Appalacian trail and even in the rural south, you don't find huge pockets of poverty. The only concentrations of poverty are in the major cities, where welfare has encouraged recipients to congregate.

So you missed my question. Which is better, generations of welfare families, or a way to gain experience and quit living on the dole?

How do you know this? Do you know people on Welfare To Work? You see, the jobs they recieve are the worst in society, ones paying minimum wage, with little or no opportunity for advancement, and poor working conditions. There's a reason they don't vote Republican.

Which is better: being sucked into a mindless job that you work at for the rest of your life, or taking time to find a decent job that actually fufills what you want to do in life?
These jobs may suck and may be the worst we have to offer. But you know what? They provide something that can never be found while cashing that government check. Experience. That's the way things work. Get a lousy job and do it well. Get promoted or quit and get a better job. Do that job well. Notice a pattern? No one is forced to take a job, nor are they forced to keep it. But it sure helps. There's another thing that these people gain. You may not be acquainted with it. It's called self-respect. I can't imagine a person choosing welfare over work when they are able.

You sound like a damned social Darwinist. "Work or die" is a pretty good incentive to work, but all it creates is a perfect permanent social lower class, which is impossible to escape. Welfare helps people survive while they attempt to leave.

Never, in my entire life, did I ever picture someone saying it's wrong to help those in need. Getting them to help themselves simply doesn't work.

We don't have permanently poor. People move up and down out of poverty and into the middle class. Some even do better. Some fall back into poverty. Quote me the phrase where I said it was wrong to help those in need. I said our government provides too much help for those who don't need it. We have tried to create a way to end their dependance on the state, and that's a good thing! In fact, if you paid attention, instead of spouting your dogma, you would have noticed that we do help the welfare recipients as they work their way out.

Now, if you want to talk about poor, let's talk about India. I've got some personal experience in a couple regions of the country and they are remarkably different.

We installed some equipment for the Indian Army in Bathinda, Punjab. Small town by Indian standards, but very nice. Punjab is where the Sikhs live. Great people, talk about integrity. Anyhow, we drove by some awful areas on the way to work every day. People had built shacks out of whatever sticks and twine they could throw together. Then they covered the skeleton with as much tarp as they could scavange. I don't know how or why they could settle where they did, but apparently it was allowed.

One more example of real poverty, not the US kind. We would usually go to a nearby restaurant for lunch and have dinner at the hotel. We had the hotel cooks trained to make more western style food and that suited us a little more. Anyhow, we're mostly nice guys and we asked the driver to come into for lunch with us. This was a cheap little pizza place where you could get a pretty nice lunch for about $2.50 US. Turns out that the driver had NEVER been in a restaurant. He made about $20 US a month and was on call 24 hours a day.

The Sikhs believe in hard works as part of their religion. They aren't too fond of lazy people, either. In two weeks of work, I was only approached by one beggar. And that was at the train station.

Now, in Bangalore and Delhi, there are beggars all over the place. Snake charmers too. They can keep those damn things in the baskets.
Sel Appa
10-01-2005, 02:37
Some African country that changes its name every week
That was so mean.

Anywho, I picked North Korea becuase it was the best of the hellholes you had there.
Honorata
10-01-2005, 02:41
What about france?
Rangerville
10-01-2005, 03:10
I live in a city on the Northcoast of British Columbia, Canada. It is on an island called Kaien Island, right on the pacific ocean. There is also Mount Hays, and the Skeena River along the highway. It has about 12,000 people, many have moved because the pulp mill closed. It's beautiful and i like living here. I would love to live in New York though.
Neo-Anarchists
10-01-2005, 03:12
Out of the choices here, the US wins for me. The other choices sounded fairly... unpleasant.

Out of any country there is, I'd like to live in Iceland. Iceland is cool.
In a fairly literal sense.