NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you think that Microsoft is good or evil?

Microshaft is evil. Very evil. They packaged IE as an integral component within Windows just so they could win the browser war.
Edit: Among other things (MS-DOS, etc.). That one just happens to stick in my mind.

Microshaft is evil. Very evil. They packaged IE as an integral component within Windows just so they could win the browser war.Yes. And because of that, people are switching to Mozilla, Mozilla Firefox, and other more safe browsers (yes any browser is safer than IE because IE is integrated). So in the end, that wasn't the smartest tactic...

Yes. And because of that, people are switching to Mozilla, Mozilla Firefox, and other more safe browsers (yes any browser is safer than IE because IE is integrated). So in the end, that wasn't the smartest tactic...
I love Firefox. Isn't IE like the only browser without tabs now? All 3 of my other browsers have tabs...
Windows still holds the most customers, browser-wise. My dad won't switch, my school won't switch.

I love Firefox. Isn't IE like the only browser without tabs now? All 3 of my other browsers have tabs...Netscape, Mozilla, and Mozilla Firefox have tabs. Other alternative browsers have tabs. Internet Explorer doesn't. That's why I switched (not because of the security issues).

I think the corporation itself is okay, but the software is buggy

Well considering that Microsoft's business strategy is to prevent other companies from competing rather than actually making better products, I think it's pretty obvious. They then charge tons for their software because there are no alteratives, forcing people to use their product.

Well considering that Microsoft's business strategy is to prevent other companies from competing rather than actually making better products, I think it's pretty obvious. They then charge tons for their software because there are no alteratives, forcing people to use their product.
And that is why I want an OS X emulator.

Well considering that Microsoft's business strategy is to prevent other companies from competing rather than actually making better products, I think it's pretty obvious. They then charge tons for their software because there are no alteratives, forcing people to use their product.Yeah. And it's pretty obvious that the free open source software is now starting to draw people away from Microsoft's products that you have to pay for...

I love Firefox. Isn't IE like the only browser without tabs now? All 3 of my other browsers have tabs...
Windows still holds the most customers, browser-wise. My dad won't switch, my school won't switch.

I just started using Firefox last week, and I'm really loving it too.

I just started using Firefox last week, and I'm really loving it too.I actually prefer Mozilla to Firefox. Then again, anything that's not IE is good.

The trouble is that due to hardware and software compatibility, it is often necessary to use Windows. Also, they have things like "software patents" which is basically like preventing people from making products which do the same things as theirs. Bill Gates obviously knows his doublespeak though, because he claimed that patents help innovation!

The trouble is that due to hardware and software compatibility, it is often necessary to use Windows. Also, they have things like "software patents" which is basically like preventing people from making products which do the same things as theirs. Bill Gates obviously knows his doublespeak though, because he claimed that patents help innovation!And I can't stand those Microsoft commercials. The guy speaking and the background music sounds straight out of the movie Antitrust. Is that supposed to help their image?

The poll evens out a lot. The only thing clearly in the lead is the middle option...

I've never seen a Microsoft advertisement on television, which I am glad of.

ppl. use mircosoft because that is what comes on most PCs. You could say that bundling is a problem, but most people who have Media Player will download other free media players as well. Mircosoft is really just filling a niche of providing easy computer software to people who know nothing about computers. As far as viruses are concerned, being the biggest software maker their always going to be the first ones to get viruses and are going to be less concerned about flaws, and more concerned about getting their product out fast.

I've never seen a Microsoft advertisement on television, which I am glad of.I don't recommend seeing it after you see the movie Antitrust. I would have put Microsoft as "Good" if it wasn't for their own commercial.

TEH MICROSOFT IS EVIL. I'm going to go and hit my computer now, because it's Windows XP.

Microsoft is flawless and Bill Gates is perfect, but now I must make my daily sacrifice for my PC.

Mmm damn Windows. One of its favourite things to do is to simply reset the computer without warning. I then have to turn it off for several seconds because if I restart it too quickly, it says that it can't load because a file is corrupted.

ppl. use mircosoft because that is what comes on most PCs.Spyware comes on most machines. That doesn't mean you don't want to remove it. You could say that bundling is a problem, but most people who have Media Player will download other free media players as well.That I agree with. I like to use WinAmp over Windows Media Player. Mircosoft is really just filling a niche of providing easy computer software to people who know nothing about computers.Yes.As far as viruses are concerned, being the biggest software maker their always going to be the first ones to get viruses and are going to be less concerned about flaws, and more concerned about getting their product out fast.Actually, it is a proven fact that open source software patches faster.

Yes.Actually, it is a proven fact that open source software patches faster.

Microsoft's new products aren't patches, they're just a way to get people to buy a "new improved" (not) version of something they already have.

While I dislike Microsoft, as a student of Computer Netwoking Systems and Tech, I find that due to the rather uniform nature of the Microsoft Windows Server architecture, when switching to a newer version, there isn't a lot of new stuff to learn. Also, it makes it easier to integrate pre Active Directory and Domain Controller server versions with Win2K Advanced Server and Win2K3 Advanced Server. et cetera...

I still think IE is evil. I prefer Mozilla Firefox.

So far, the NS community thinks Microsoft is:

1. Okay
2. Evil
2. Bad
4. Good
5. Perfect

So most people think Microsoft is okay.

Firefox is definitely the better browser.

Firefox is definitely the better browser.
There are so many good and stupid plugins, it's not funny. I liked the one that let me change the name everytime I loaded a new window. *giggle*

Firefox is definitely the better browser.I could argue for Mozilla Suite instead, but I don't want to divide people who hate IE.

Anyone who has seen Farenheit 9/11 would know that Microsoft is evil for more reasons than the obvious. They practically led the meeting that all of the major corporations had just before the start of the Iraq War to decide hwo they would slice the pie and make money off of the American taxpayers and of suffering Iraqi's. But it's not all bad. There is the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, which is something.

I like Microsoft; they have pretty good products (before you blast me, it's my opinion, got it?) and although some of their corporate practices are questionable...they're not the spawn of satan. However, I don't always use their products, e.g., I stay away from MSIE because it's very silly and use Mozilla Firefox insteaad, and use Google over MSN search and Yahoo/Gmail over Hotmail.

That said, IE is hideous and evil. I think they've given up on it, they haven't updated it in so long. I hope so.

Ask me yesterday this yesterday and I would have told you that the Microsoft Products I use are on the whole really good at what they do. However having just lost an ENTIRE DAY trying to get Visual Studio .NET up and running and can safely say that I fucking hate them. :mad: :headbang: :mad: :headbang: :sniper: :mp5:

Anyone who has seen Farenheit 9/11 would know that Microsoft is evil for more reasons than the obvious. They practically led the meeting that all of the major corporations had just before the start of the Iraq War to decide hwo they would slice the pie and make money off of the American taxpayers and of suffering Iraqi's. But it's not all bad. There is the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, which is something.Half of Farenheit 9/11 are lies and an additional quarter is rumors. I wouldn't hate Microsoft because of that movie.

Wow. I left for the day and now the haters of Microsoft pretty much won this poll.

I like Microsoft; they have pretty good products (before you blast me, it's my opinion, got it?) and although some of their corporate practices are questionable...they're not the spawn of satan. However, I don't always use their products, e.g., I stay away from MSIE because it's very silly and use Mozilla Firefox insteaad, and use Google over MSN search and Yahoo/Gmail over Hotmail.

That said, IE is hideous and evil. I think they've given up on it, they haven't updated it in so long. I hope so.Well, it is your oppinion...

At the tab thing: Konquerer doesn't have tabs, and it is very awesome if your on Linux. I think Microsoft is okay. I prefer microsfot alternatives usually but Visual Studio[for me] is just unbeatable.

Half of Farenheit 9/11 are lies and an additional quarter is rumors. I wouldn't hate Microsoft because of that movie. Someone finally tells the truth about that movie.

Someone finally tells the truth about that movie.
No, dude, get it straight, the stuff in that movie was fact. It may have been embellished a bit, but the basic stuff was completely true.

I must object! I do very much appreciate the tabs feature on Firefox, but the programme doesn't support many websites as well as IE; so many times the little green jigsaw piece is there where a news ticker should be, and when I click to get the required plug-in, I am informed it doesn't exist! There is something to be said for one form dominating - standardisation (though I am no expert - far from it. Please don't hurt me!)

No, dude, get it straight, the stuff in that movie was fact. It may have been embellished a bit, but the basic stuff was completely true.
You, and the liberal world, wish.

I must object! I do very much appreciate the tabs feature on Firefox, but the programme doesn't support many websites as well as IE; so many times the little green jigsaw piece is there where a news ticker should be, and when I click to get the required plug-in, I am informed it doesn't exist! There is something to be said for one form dominating - standardisation (though I am no expert - far from it. Please don't hurt me!)
I have about every plugin availble to Firefox, and all its themes. But if you insist you love IE, I suggest you use a more secure[+ tab support] like Avant of that one browser, like Deepsea or something, I do not remember.

I despise Microsoft, but then I'm a Mac zealot... It comes with the territory.

There's a little trick I love doing in the terminal in OS X that allows me to make an error message (that says whatever I want it to) appear on any one copy of the Windows OS connected to my school's network. My personal favorite is taken from the game Deus Ex:

ICARUS FOUND YOU
ICARUS FOUND YOU
ICARUS FOUND YOU
ICARUS FOUND YOU
ICARUS FOUND YOU
RUN WHILE YOU CAN
RUN WHILE YOU CAN
RUN WHILE YOU CAN
RUN WHILE YOU CAN
RUN WHILE YOU CAN

Hey, it's the closest thing I know to a hack...

No, dude, get it straight, the stuff in that movie was fact. It may have been embellished a bit, but the basic stuff was completely true.Okay. I agree. Fareinheit 9/11 is a documentary - true 100%. Then the 9/11 Commission Report must be a fiction novel because some facts conflict...

I have had my PC for three years, running Windows XP and I haven't hd a problem with it. I switched to Firefox for my web browsing needs and for security reasons as well. I just have a question: Is it normal for Windows Explorer to try to connect to the internet every time I want to search for a file on my computer? I just don't see the reason why it would need to if I am just searching for files located locally on my PC.

They're OK, but I <3 Linux and OSS in general. It's just better.
(Admittedly I use Opera rather than Firefox, but meh...)

So? I use Mozilla Suite instead of Firefox. I have no problem with the browsers as long as they're not IE.

Firefox is definitely the better browser.
For now … until it gets popular enough all the other malware designers start taking shots at it :P (I use firefox and love it but there are probably about as many holes in it)

Yes, but open source gets patched a lot quicker than Microsoft. When an exploit is discovered in Windows or IE, it can take several months to take affect. I even heard about one worm taking advatage of an already discovered flaw in Windows. When an exploit is found in open source software (especially Mozilla), it is patched almost immediately.

I think the corporation itself is okay, but the software is buggy

They actually could make it bug-free, but the costs would be way too high. It is better for them to keep prices down and let the consumers do some of the 'beta' testing.

Yes, but open source gets patched a lot quicker than Microsoft. When an exploit is discovered in Windows or IE, it can take several months to take affect. I even heard about one worm taking advatage of an already discovered flaw in Windows. When an exploit is found in open source software (especially Mozilla), it is patched almost immediately.

Why is that?

Why is that?With closed source, the company must find and hire people and pay them money. With open source, anybody with programming knowledge can volunteer to help for free (of course experts would make sure it is really patched).

At the tab thing: Konqueror doesn't have tabs, and it is very awesome if your on Linux. I think Microsoft is okay. I prefer microsfot alternatives usually but Visual Studio[for me] is just unbeatable.

Konqueror *does* have tabs! I really like Konqui and I use no other browser.

BTW: My PC is entirely M$ free! I hate Microsoft for so many reasons starting from MSDOS 4.0, over the crappy UI of Win 3.1, the bundeling, the lacking security, the times I spend fixing windowses, their attacks on free market...

Konqueror *does* have tabs! I really like Konqui and I use no other browser.

BTW: My PC is entirely M$ free! I hate Microsoft for so many reasons starting from MSDOS 4.0, over the crappy UI of Win 3.1, the bundeling, the lacking security, the times I spend fixing windowses, their attacks on free market...Yeah. Did you know that on Dictionary.com, the second definition they give for Microsoft is "the new evil empire?"

They actually could make it bug-free, but the costs would be way too high. It is better for them to keep prices down and let the consumers do some of the 'beta' testing.Is that true? Any sources?

They actually could make it bug-free, but the costs would be way too high. It is better for them to keep prices down and let the consumers do some of the 'beta' testing.
Theoretically impossible (that is the first thing they teach you in programming)

You can approach 0 bugs but never reach it … there will ALWAYS be a series of events that cause some function to fail.

Not possible with ANY programs

Konqueror *does* have tabs! I really like Konqui and I use no other browser.

BTW: My PC is entirely M$ free! I hate Microsoft for so many reasons starting from MSDOS 4.0, over the crappy UI of Win 3.1, the bundeling, the lacking security, the times I spend fixing windowses, their attacks on free market...
They also make firefox and mozilla for *nix

Yes, but open source gets patched a lot quicker than Microsoft. When an exploit is discovered in Windows or IE, it can take several months to take affect. I even heard about one worm taking advatage of an already discovered flaw in Windows. When an exploit is found in open source software (especially Mozilla), it is patched almost immediately.
Not really … there is no central organization for fixes … each individual distro has to evaluate if it effects them (unless it is a utility issue)

To be fair ms gets the patches out way more often then most *nix

Theoretically impossible (that is the first thing they teach you in programming)

You can approach 0 bugs but never reach it … there will ALWAYS be a series of events that cause some function to fail.

Not possible with ANY programs

Actually it is possible to write a completely bug free program. It is just prohibitively expensive to do this in the commercial environment for most applications. First time critical apps, medical, military stuff has to be bug free, and often is. But boy are they expensive. The number of input combinations to a program is always finite, and it is possible to check the output for each combination. Hence you get a bug free program.

The other alternative is to write a program that simply ignores all inputs. This, by definition is both bug free and useless.

They also make firefox and mozilla for *nix
I know, but they are ugly and slow like hell on my PC...

I know, but they are ugly and slow like hell on my PC...
Fly on my 500mhz BSD box (faster then konquer) though switching to xfce instead of kde helped too
(that is my slow box ... but a good test on how a piece old machine works great as a file server)

Actually it is possible to write a completely bug free program. It is just prohibitively expensive to do this in the commercial environment for most applications. First time critical apps, medical, military stuff has to be bug free, and often is. But boy are they expensive. The number of input combinations to a program is always finite, and it is possible to check the output for each combination. Hence you get a bug free program.

The other alternative is to write a program that simply ignores all inputs. This, by definition is both bug free and useless.
Incorrect ... I work as a programmer(sometimes) ... theoretically impossible trust me on this one

Not bug free ... LOW bug ratio there is a difference ... you can approach 100 percent but never achieve it not on an individual piece of software ... and not finite inputs ... nor finite hardware combinations ... you don’t have control of all software interactions ... sometimes it has to be passed down the model to lower level apps drivers and such

Fly on my 500mhz BSD box (faster then konquer) though switching to xfce instead of kde helped too
(that is my slow box ... but a good test on how a piece old machine works great as a file server)

well, okay, slow like hell on my former PC but still ugly on my new one. Simply a matter of taste now.

Incorrect ... I work as a programmer(sometimes) ... theoredicaly impossible trust me on this one

Not bug free ... LOW bug ratio there is a difference ... you can aproch 100 percent but never achive it not on an individual piece of software ... and not fineite inputs ... nor finine hardware combinations ... you dont have control of all software interactions ... sometimes it has to be passed down the model to lower level apps drivers and such

A good trick to make something bug free is to document all the bugs then call them 'assumptions'. For example in the MS SQL Server 2000 documentation they could put: "It is assumed that when the user changes the security password on a database, the user actually wants the machine to either ignore the change or crash slowely".

PS: I got VS.NET working, now I like MS again. For all the crappy stuff MS has done VS.NET makes up for it and then some.

A good trick to make something bug free is to document all the bugs then call them 'assumptions'. For example in the MS SQL Server 2000 documentation they could put: "It is assumed that when the user changes the security password on a database, the user actually wants the machine to either ignore the change or crash slowely".

PS: I got VS.NET working, now I like MS again. For all the crappy stuff MS has done VS.NET makes up for it and then some.Most people have a love-hate relationship with Microsoft.

Most people have a love-hate relationship with Microsoft.
Only hate here!

Yes. And because of that, people are switching to Mozilla, Mozilla Firefox, and other more safe browsers (yes any browser is safer than IE because IE is integrated). So in the end, that wasn't the smartest tactic...


I've never had a problem with IE. Of course, I've never had any real problems with my computer as a whole. Outlook, on the other hand, is pure, unadulterated horse shit. However, I kind of like using Opera when I'm doing certain things online.

E.V.I.L just plain evil :sniper:

Sure IE has problems, but thats because all exploits are written for it. FireFox and Oprea are safer, only because theres hardly anything written targeting it. Mac's and Linux machines dont get virus's very often, simply because, no one bothers to write stuff for it. No matter how well written, and safe, a peice of software is. When theres millions of people trying to exploit it, somthing is gonna get through. Programmers arnt perfect, Linux, Firefox, Netscape etc.. have far more loopholes the Microsoft software, there just simply isnt anything written targeting them, so no one cares.
Saftey by anonymity.
Its like arguing that a 2 foot hole out in the woods, is safer then a multibillion dollar bunker that everyone knows about. It is, simply because no one cares.

well, okay, slow like hell on my former PC but still ugly on my new one. Simply a matter of taste now.
What GUI?

Sure IE has problems, but thats because all exploits are written for it. FireFox and Oprea are safer, only because theres hardly anything written targeting it. Mac's and Linux machines dont get virus's very often, simply because, no one bothers to write stuff for it. No matter how well written, and safe, a peice of software is. When theres millions of people trying to exploit it, somthing is gonna get through. Programmers arnt perfect, Linux, Firefox, Netscape etc.. have far more loopholes the Microsoft software, there just simply isnt anything written targeting them, so no one cares.
Saftey by anonymity.
Its like arguing that a 2 foot hole out in the woods, is safer then a multibillion dollar bunker that everyone knows about. It is, simply because no one cares.
Yup you hit a lot of it on the head

In fact *nix systems are soooo full of holes unless you configure them right (though you do have more of an option to do that then windows does which makes them potentially safer if you know what you are doing … but if you know what you are doing with windows you can make it fairly safe too)

Simply this … they are a MASSIVE target that has to automate to reach their user base (I.E. Every idiot out there) so they have to make things simple … but by automating and simplifying for the user you make the back end more complex and therefore usually have more holes. Not to mention using admin rights way to often … but that makes it easy for a marginal user to install programs that they need without doing account swapping (which is over a lot of their heads)

They just have the bad clientele and are a massive target


(not arguing their marketing techniques but rather their product)

Though to be fair they have made leaps forward with application integration … being able to port stuff between their applications to each other (office apps like excel and word and access are so interchangeable now) along with compatibility with old versions (some issues with 95 97 and 2000 but other then that)

I just spend 9 work hours hours to do a article for a scientific magazine. Thanks to them only accepting MS Word, i had to work with this piece of shoddy workmanship and at least quadruple the time it would have taken me in Quark Xpress or Adobe Indesign. Why? Because a) MS penetrated trough agressive marketing that Word is an adequate tool for jobs like this. It isnt. b) Word doesnt work with precision tools but instead has a whole lot of functions that do little to no good to a layout and hides essentials in third degree menus. Honestly, just for the annoyance that overcomes me every time i have to open Word i vote MS as evil.

Bill Gates obviously knows his doublespeak though, because he claimed that patents help innovation!
The Emperor of Terra Zetegenia notes that, without patents, there would really be no reason for anyone but open source providers TO innovate. After all, if anyone can steal the work that you've spent millions/billions of dollars and months of research on and sell it as if it was theirs, what's the point in spending your time and money researching instead of just waiting and stealing? If your utility is increased so much by helping other people that the money you get from the innovation never crosses your mind, then there really would be no reason to get a patent - however, if you prefer your profits in cash rather than in good feelings, you need something to protect your investment.

Personally, the Emperor was considering switching over to an open source operating system, until his latest computer came with XP Professional. Basically every problem which originally plagued Windows seems to have been resolved with it, so the Emperor really sees no reason to learn a new operating system from scratch. He does, however, vastly prefer Opera to Internet Explorer, Wordperfect to Word, and Winamp to the Windows media player.

What GUI?

XOrg & KDE & default theme on Mozilla

Microsoft is a firm. Good or Evil doesn't apply.

Microsoft is a firm. Good or Evil doesn't apply.
M$ is the Haditera (hiding place) of evil, in the disguise of a firm! And that is not because I am commie!

BTW: more votes for evil than for both choices of good.

Tie for evil and okay. This is getting more interesting. The longer this poll is up, the more accurate it will get in capturing the general mood about MS.

<lame joke>
microsoft is named after bill gates genitals
</lame joke>

Seriously, I like microsofts products. They're sometimes buggy but all software has bugs? The makers are only human after all. And what's wrong with internet explorer, I hear people complaining about but I can't find anything about it I don't like. Maybe it's just me.

XOrg & KDE & default theme on Mozilla
Well on a marginal machine KDE does crunch in and of itself ... I like it and all but

Go good old gnome or my new fav (so far) XFCE ... a lot better running on thoes machines

Tie for evil and okay. This is getting more interesting. The longer this poll is up, the more accurate it will get in capturing the general mood about MS.
At least on an online forum ... not nessisarly representitive poll of any population beyond that

<lame joke>
microsoft is named after bill gates genitals
</lame joke>

Seriously, I like microsofts products. They're sometimes buggy but all software has bugs? The makers are only human after all. And what's wrong with internet explorer, I hear people complaining about but I can't find anything about it I don't like. Maybe it's just me.
Massive Gaps with their active X controlls ... also one massive system resource hog

At least on an online forum ... not nessisarly representitive poll of any population beyond thatYes. But it'd get the general NationStater's mood about MS. I do not claim that this poll is in any way scientific or representative of America and/or the world.

Well on a marginal machine KDE does crunch in and of itself ... I like it and all but

Go good old gnome or my new fav (so far) XFCE ... a lot better running on thoes machines

On smalltux (my old PC), I preferred enlightenment... Now I use most of the time KDE, I think it has something to do with the place you come from. I know no single German GNOME user and no single US-American, who uses KDE as default.

On smalltux (my old PC), I preferred enlightenment... Now I use most of the time KDE, I think it has something to do with the place you come from. I know no single German GNOME user and no single US-American, who uses KDE as default.
I used kde as a default for two years before going to XFCE
in fact our whole labs here in minnesota use kde front end ... intresting (and does not redhat use a kde gui ... american) lol just pointing it out

I used kde as a default for two years before going to XFCE
in fact our whole labs here in minnesota use kde front end ... intresting (and does not redhat use a kde gui ... american) lol just pointing it out

Redhat uses gnome per default, KDE was not even included for a long time. SuSE, Mandrake and Knoppix (all mostly european) use KDE as default.

Redhat uses gnome per default, KDE was not even included for a long time. SuSE, Mandrake and Knoppix (all mostly european) use KDE as default.
Ahhh there I got confused ... I used mandrake not readhat to start with ... for some reason said redhat bah

Knopix STD is hella usefull also that is a fav

I am a FreeBSD convert though so NERTS to all you system V geeks!