NationStates Jolt Archive


US soldier sentenced in Iraqi drowning case

Smeagol-Gollum
09-01-2005, 11:37
US soldier sentenced in Iraqi drowning case

A US army platoon sergeant who ordered his soldiers to throw Iraqis into the Tigris River was sentenced today to six months in military prison, but will not be discharged.

Sergeant 1st Class Tracy Perkins also was reduced by one rank to staff sergeant, which cuts his pay and responsibilities.

Perkins, 33, was convicted yesterday of two counts of aggravated assault, assault consummated by battery and obstruction of justice. He was acquitted of involuntary manslaughter and making a false statement.

He did not testify during his trial, but told the jury of army officers and enlisted members earlier today that his actions were wrong - although he did not apologise to the Iraqis. He said he still loved the military and did not want to lose his job.

"If I had to go back, I would definitely do something different on those days," Perkins said, wiping away tears.

The six-man jury of army officers and enlisted members considered a sentencing range of no punishment to a dishonorable discharge, rank reduction and 11-and-a-half years in prison. Prosecutors had recommended five years in prison and a dishonorable or bad conduct discharge.

Perkins and another soldier were accused of ordering soldiers to push the two Iraqis into the river in Samarra in January 2004. Prosecutors say Zaidoun Hassoun, 19, drowned and his cousin, Marwan Hassoun, climbed out of the river.

Marwan Hassoun testified that he tried to save his cousin by grabbing his hand, but the powerful current swept Zaidoun away. Marwan said the body was found in the river nearly two weeks later.

Defence lawyers contended Zaidoun may still be alive, but say if he is dead it was not at the hands of US soldiers.

Perkins did not discuss specifics of the incident on the stand today, but admitted he ordered his soldiers to throw an Iraqi man into the river a month earlier.

Perkins said the man had made a gesture of slitting his throat. He said he never meant to injure or kill the Iraqi by throwing him in the river; and he ordered him thrown in the river to teach him a "hard lesson" about threatening US troops. He testified he saw the man climb out alive.

"Basically the enemy would test your resolve. ... I didn't want them to think we were soft or weak," said Perkins, who has 14 years of military service.

No soldiers disputed that the Hassoun cousins were forced into the river. But soldiers testifying for the prosecution and defence said they never heard Perkins order the Iraqis into the river and that he stayed in his vehicle that night.

The soldiers said the orders came from 1st Lieutenant Jack Saville, the platoon leader, who is to be tried in March on the same charges as Perkins - as well as a conspiracy charge. His trial was postponed until March after a judge ordered the victim's body to be exhumed for an autopsy and identification.

Several of Perkins' commanding officers testified today that Perkins was an outstanding soldier who tried to find non-lethal ways to deal with defiant Iraqis in the increasingly dangerous region.

"I will always consider him a war hero. ... No one can ever take away his outstanding service over there," said Lieutenant-Colonel Nathan Sassaman.

AP

COMMENT.

Well, I'm sure that the previously oppressed Iraqis will be overwhelmed at this wonderful example of American justice.

How nice that those who kill no longer escape punishment.

This will undoubtedly serve as a suitable deterrent.
BlatantSillyness
09-01-2005, 11:43
Vae Victus
Dobbs Town
09-01-2005, 12:19
Ooooooh...it stings when you slap those wrists...!

Ow!

Aw, c'mon, it's not like they were real people or whatever...

Geez! Six months!?

*sniffs* War is Hell...
Bitchkitten
09-01-2005, 12:23
Can't imagine people thinking Americans are brutes who have no respect for the rule of law or life.
Azreen
09-01-2005, 12:35
6 months.

that is how much an innocent life means nowadays.

now why don't we switch the whole thing around?

an iraqi forcing 2 americans to be thrown into a river and one ends up dead.

hmm..?
Western Northland
09-01-2005, 12:38
Can't imagine people thinking Americans are brutes who have no respect for the rule of law or life.
Oh really???
I think this is a perfeact example of "US Military Justice"
For beeing the self proclaimed world police you sure do a shitty job! :mad:
Armed Bookworms
09-01-2005, 12:38
How nice that those who kill no longer escape punishment.
If I remember this case correctly, wasn't there quite a bit of controversy over whether the person had actually drowned? The body show in the video did not have the characteristics of being drowned and then left in water for any length of time.
Isanyonehome
09-01-2005, 13:37
Lets leave aside whether the punishment was just or not for a moment.

If I understand this situation correctly, an unarmed man goes up to a bunch of armed foreign soldiers(who have proven themselves to be really good at killing people and blowing things up) and makes a throat slitting action? Do they mix some sort of pervere drug into the food of Iraqis? Was this person allowed to reproduce before being thrown into a river to drown? Are there other people in that country with this person's outstanding sense of self preservation?

I wouldnt make a throat slitting motion to the freaking police here(India)let alone making it to soldiers fighting an insurgency. Who knows what sort of "encounter"(term used here to describe meetings between the police and the bad guys) I might find myself participating in(at least according to the next days newspaper).
Knootoss
09-01-2005, 13:55
Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. "Military justice" lets this man get away with what is just clearly murdering an innocent man.

Why isn't this brought before a civilian tribunal? Let the Iraqis have at them, see if he gets away that easily too with ordering this shit. Or an international court of course, but clearly neutral Dutch and Swedish and whatnot judges are completely incapable in judging war crimes towards Iraqis and a few other troops who probably do the very same things are.

American justice towards its own kin is a joke. No respect for the rule of law or human life in general if its not the life of other Americans (or unborns). A sobby story about how you love the military and a few of your buddies testifying that you are a "war hero" (!) is apparently enough to let you get away with killing innocent civilians. Sad, very sad.
Isanyonehome
09-01-2005, 14:55
Why do people get into such a tizzy when an American soldier/govt does something? Is the world fixated on America? Shit happens every day all around the world, much of it is unfair.

I dont see people talking about the "encounters" the police in Andhra Pradesh(India) have with so called Naxalites(our version of psuedo communists)(actually most of them are just armed criminals). The Naxalites kill some cops, the cops then go kill a bunch of men from some random village and call them Naxalites. I dont know the truth about those encounters anymore than I know whether the Iraqi guy 1) actually died and 2) whether he died from drowning, yet you dont see me getting all bent out of shape.

So why are you guys getting so razzled? Have you gone through the court transcipts? Do you know if the punishment was too little or too much? Moreover, do you live in such a fairy tale world where bad shit doesnt happen in a freaking warzone?

Rule of law?? What a joke, I guess you havent paid attention to what militaries(US included) have done in previous wars/insurgencies ect.
Jeruselem
09-01-2005, 14:59
"Truth and Justice the American Way"

We hear this all the time and wonder what it really means.
Knootoss
09-01-2005, 15:00
Well, sure, if you hold US troops to the same moral standards as an Indian communist/criminal organisation and ethnic retalliation ("stuff happens") or the invading Mongolian hordes of Genghis Khan ("wars in the past were bad too") then I guess there is no problem. :rolleyes:
Isanyonehome
09-01-2005, 15:31
Well, sure, if you hold US troops to the same moral standards as an Indian communist/criminal organisation and ethnic retalliation ("stuff happens") or the invading Mongolian hordes of Genghis Khan ("wars in the past were bad too") then I guess there is no problem. :rolleyes:

Umm.. India is the world's largest Democracy with courts and the "rule of law". Why should I not hot hold America to the same standard? Or how to the same standard as the French who fired upon unarmed protesters? Or any of the other garbage that goes on? How about the forced prostitution committed by UN peacekeepers in Bosnia/herzgovia(or some other similar place).

Frankly, none of this stuff bothers me too much because I believe it is tame. Whenever the military and civilians mix, there are going to be examples(whether they come to light or not) where things go badly for the civilians. The only thing that that need to be questioned is whether a) it was directly ordered(official or unnofficial policy) and b) whether it is ignored when/if it comes to light.

What I what to know is
1) Why does America have some special standard to live up to

and

2) Who else shares this special niche in global standards? and when have they proved they are better or worse at maintaining these standards.
Nsendalen
09-01-2005, 15:37
1) If you're going to try and spread your world view, make sure the view isn't muddy.

2) No-one. US is a big easy target. People are lazy. Go figure eh? :S
Smeagol-Gollum
09-01-2005, 21:59
If I remember this case correctly, wasn't there quite a bit of controversy over whether the person had actually drowned? The body show in the video did not have the characteristics of being drowned and then left in water for any length of time.

Please re-read the article with some thought.

The US serviceman was found to be guilty by a US military court. He was not found to be innocent, nor was the case dismissed.

A US military court determined both the coniction and the sentence.

That is the source of controversey.
Smeagol-Gollum
09-01-2005, 22:03
Lets leave aside whether the punishment was just or not for a moment.

If I understand this situation correctly, an unarmed man goes up to a bunch of armed foreign soldiers(who have proven themselves to be really good at killing people and blowing things up) and makes a throat slitting action? Do they mix some sort of pervere drug into the food of Iraqis? Was this person allowed to reproduce before being thrown into a river to drown? Are there other people in that country with this person's outstanding sense of self preservation?

I wouldnt make a throat slitting motion to the freaking police here(India)let alone making it to soldiers fighting an insurgency. Who knows what sort of "encounter"(term used here to describe meetings between the police and the bad guys) I might find myself participating in(at least according to the next days newspaper).

I must have misunderstood something here.

You seem to be suggesting that to make a throat-slitting gesture is worthy of the death penalty, but to actually kill someone is only worth a six month sentence.

Any form of logic would dictate that it would be impossible to hold two such contradictory views at the same time, while retaining any degree of sanity.
Armed Bookworms
10-01-2005, 00:32
Please re-read the article with some thought.

The US serviceman was found to be guilty by a US military court. He was not found to be innocent, nor was the case dismissed.

A US military court determined both the coniction and the sentence.

That is the source of controversey.
The soldier in question is not convicted with the mans' death. Given that photos of a body that were used as evidence by the plaintiffs did not have classic signs of death by drowning followed by 2 weeks of immersion in water, which is what his family more or less claimed happened, they could not actually say he had killed someone. You seem to assume that the family in question is telling the truth, when that very well might not be the case. All the soldier was convicted with was ordering subordinates to toss two people into the river, and by most accounts except for one both of them climbed out. Thusly, more punishment is not really needed.