NationStates Jolt Archive

This is just... something I thought I'd do. Because I can. So go away and stop whinging.

Right, the people who I submit are:

David Gilmour - not really bluesy blues, but he's close enough
Eric Clapton - no comment
Jimi Hendrix - no comment
Stevie Ray Vaughan - not sure if I spelt his name right, but you know who I mean
Mark Knopfler - his guitar playing is beautiful

But yeah, give your thoughts here

B.B. King

B.B. King

Lightnin' Hopkins

Lightnin' Hopkins
You fecking Rule. Just because you know him.
I say Robert Johnson.

You fecking Rule. Just because you know him.
I say Robert Johnson.

I just got his complete recordings. Some really good guitar work and his voice is distinctive, but his songs are just so derivative. The lyrics, structure, and chord progressions rarely change with any significance from song to song. I don't see what his allure is really.

As for me, I got to go with Jimi Hendrix, but for straight blues, I would go with Stevie Ray Vaughn

I just got his complete recordings. Some really good guitar work and his voice is distinctive, but his songs are just so derivative. The lyrics, structure, and chord progressions rarely change with any significance from song to song. I don't see what his allure is really.

As for me, I got to go with Jimi Hendrix, but for straight blues, I would go with Stevie Ray Vaughn
The lyrics and chord structure are what make blues....kinda has to not change.

12 bars, I7,IV7, V7, iambic cadence with the first line repeated. Gospel inspired harmony. Thats blues, not just feeling crappy.

You are my new favorite forum personality.

The lyrics and chord structure are what make blues....kinda has to not change.

12 bars, I7,IV7, V7, iambic cadence with the first line repeated. Gospel inspired harmony. Thats blues, not just feeling crappy.

Were it not for breaks between the tracks, I would not have been able to tell the songs apart. Malted Milk, Hellhound on My Trail, and Sweet Home Chicago were the only outstanding tracks.

Were it not for breaks between the tracks, I would not have been able to tell the songs apart. Malted Milk, Hellhound on My Trail, and Sweet Home Chicago were the only outstanding tracks.
It takes a while for people to figure out the difference between one punk rock song and another, too.

I agree with many of the ones already said. I must also add, however, John Lee Hooker.

It takes a while for people to figure out the difference between one punk rock song and another, too.

That is true, and that is why I have little respect for the punk genre as a form of musical expression.

That is true, and that is why I have little respect for the punk genre as a form of musical expression.
I could have said "jazz" or "classical" or a lot of other things and it would have been the same. The point is that you learn to listen to music*. Once you know the music you understand the differences, the subtleties to it. Until then, it all sounds the same.

*Careful-read carefully, I'm not saying "You don't know how to listen to music." But each style, for lack of a better word-you learn to listen to that. It's why, say, to a lot of westerners eastern music sounds like a trainwreck but to them sounds just right, it's what they trained their ear to listen to. That's why pop music is so repetative, it's not that they neccisarily lack imagination (That may also be true, however) but through that repitition they hope to train, or hook, your ear.

That is true, and that is why I have little respect for the punk genre as a form of musical expression.
I think you may be missing the point of punk there, mate.

To those already nominated (with the exception of Dave Gilmour, who I can only assume to have been permanently slowed from 45rpm to 33rpm at some point in the production process), I would add Wilko Johnson, Ike Turner and George Thorogood.

I could have said "jazz" or "classical" or a lot of other things and it would have been the same. The point is that you learn to listen to music*. Once you know the music you understand the differences, the subtleties to it. Until then, it all sounds the same.

*Careful-read carefully, I'm not saying "You don't know how to listen to music." But each style, for lack of a better word-you learn to listen to that. It's why, say, to a lot of westerners eastern music sounds like a trainwreck but to them sounds just right, it's what they trained their ear to listen to. That's why pop music is so repetative, it's not that they neccisarily lack imagination (That may also be true, however) but through that repitition they hope to train, or hook, your ear.

I agree, with you, but punk is a stagnant music for the most part. There have been some very catchy punk bands, but there has been little advancement in the music since its conception, other than production qualities. Meanwhile, jazz, hip hop, rock and roll, and pop music (not radio "popular" music, but the actual genre) have all been a very progressive musical movement.

I guess my problem with Robert Johnson, is that I that I began listening to the blues in a more progressive state, so the original artists sound derivative.

BB King.

Out of that list...?

Vaughan.

B.B. King, obviously.

Although I really like John Lee Hooker, Howlin Wolf, Robert Cray and Robert Johnson

Stevie Ray was definately the best "modern" blues player. Just to throw out some new names: John Mayall, Albert Collins, Duanne Allman

I would suppose at least some of the posters have heard of Chris Thomas King, would you have any recommendations for his songs? I have not heard many.

Pure Blues: Robert Johnson

Electric Blues: Buddy Guy

Blues-Rock: David Gilmour

Some good names on the list so far. Gotta add on Muddy Waters, Otis Rush, T-Bone Walker, and... hell - there are just too many.

I wish some of the original masters of the genre had had access to current recording technology. A lot of them we'll never really get to apreciate just how good they were.

I agree, with you, but punk is a stagnant music for the most part. There have been some very catchy punk bands, but there has been little advancement in the music since its conception, other than production qualities. Meanwhile, jazz, hip hop, rock and roll, and pop music (not radio "popular" music, but the actual genre) have all been a very progressive musical movement.

I guess my problem with Robert Johnson, is that I that I began listening to the blues in a more progressive state, so the original artists sound derivative.
Robert Johnson is recognised by most if not all of every living person mentioned here.
As being The Blues Man.
I have little respect personally for an ears opinion if it hasnt been made wise by the hands.
Robert Johnson birthed a style, or perhaps a color of blues playing yet unseen in his day--influenced greatly by Jazz--that is obvious in his playing.
His work is intricate yet completely lacking verbosity.
Blues is not Jazz(it is much closer to punk), Blues is simple, straight forward, and clear music.
Cant Think of Name, is much better spoken then I.
I can compare not getting Robert Johnson, to the same mind numbingly deaf people who "Dont Get Jimi"--A pure Blues player wrapped in a Rock scene.
I am trying not to be insulting Vitto(its hard, its in my nature I am a prick)
I think you listen too much with your ears. The King of the Delta Blues is in my opinion the Best Blues Guitar player ever.
It is truly nothing more then that--If I could explain what I hear, I dont think I would regard it so highly.

Almost forgot, Huddie Ledbetter. I enjoy that old gent to.
Also known as Leadbelly.

Robert Johnson is recognised by most if not all of every living person mentioned here.
As being The Blues Man.
I have little respect personally for an ears opinion if it hasnt been made wise by the hands.
Robert Johnson birthed a style, or perhaps a color of blues playing yet unseen in his day--influenced greatly by Jazz--that is obvious in his playing.
His work is intricate yet completely lacking verbosity.
Blues is not Jazz(it is much closer to punk), Blues is simple, straight forward, and clear music.
Cant Think of Name, is much better spoken then I.
I can compare not getting Robert Johnson, to the same mind numbingly deaf people who "Dont Get Jimi"--A pure Blues player wrapped in a Rock scene.
I am trying not to be insulting Vitto(its hard, its in my nature I am a prick)
I think you listen too much with your ears. The King of the Delta Blues is in my opinion the Best Blues Guitar player ever.
It is truly nothing more then that--If I could explain what I hear, I dont think I would regard it so highly.

I first off never said he was not a fantastic guitarist, nor that he wasn't extremely influential.

He does have a catalog, however, of only 29 songs, and of those 29 songs, the only ones I find interesting outside of the guitar work are Malted Milk, Sweet Home Chicago, Preaching Blues, and Drunken Hearted Man. The rest I can just skip and not miss a thing.

Muddy Waters.
Robert Johnson.
Blind Willie Johnson.
B.B King.
Leadbelly.
John Lee Hooker

Mississippi John Hurt. If you love the blues and have not heard him......Do it now!!

Mississippi John Hurt. If you love the blues and have not heard him......Do it now!!
Yeah, y fav song by hi is Candy Man. \m/

I would suppose at least some of the posters have heard of Chris Thomas King, would you have any recommendations for his songs? I have not heard many.

IMHO his best album is Me, My Guitar and the Blues. My favorite cuts are Why Blues and Like Father Like Son.

Robert Johnson was a great guitarist in the Delta Blues style. For Chicago Blues I've always been fascinated with Hound Dog Taylor. He had six fingers on each hand and could pick with all of them. Ry Cooder does some excellent blues guitar as does Mississippi Fred McDowell, Keb' Mo', and Leadbelly. Though not strickly blues, Eric Johnson is great. Eric Clapton, BB King, oh there's so many and I love them all.

Almost forgot, Huddie Ledbetter. I enjoy that old gent to.
Also known as Leadbelly.
I was surprised it got to two pages before someone mentioned him.
Saved me from doing so.
Same goes for Muddy Waters.

Stevie Ray- Who else would a Texan answer?

There are so many talented Blues guitarists out there with their own styles that it's hard to pick a best of player.

My fave.would have to be Stevie Ray Vaughn,Jimi Hendrix,Clapton,Hooker and Beck.Other guys I dig are Blackmore and Ionni from Sabbath.

I had a chance to see Vaughn up here in Canada at a free concert when Stevie came out with his first album but instead,I decided to go drink a bottle of whiskey with friends at a party.Now he's gone n it was my only chance to have seen em. Too bad. Peace

"Once you know the music you understand the differences, the subtleties to it. Until then, it all sounds the same."

---------------
True indeed

IMHO his best album is Me, My Guitar and the Blues. My favorite cuts are Why Blues and Like Father Like Son.


I have The Legend of Tommy Johnson, and my favorite tracks are Trouble Will Soon Be Over and John Law Burned Down the Liquor Store.

Outside of that album I have only heard:

Hard Time Killing Floor (His performance on O' Brother is what interested me originally)
I'm On Fire (My personal favorite)
And Like Father Like Son

I will download Why Blues if I can, could you recommend any more?

rory gallagher

Surprised to see no mention of

Gary Moore

Ry Cooder

Steve Vai

Jeff Beck.

If looking for a little know but good blues guitarist, try Dave Hole.

Surprised to see no mention of

Ry Cooder

Steve Vai

Jeff Beck

These guys are brilliant, but i don't see how you could consider Steve Vai a blues guitarist.

Best I've seen in person:

John Lee Hooker
B.B. King
Buddy Guy (still has a night club in Chicago http://www.buddyguys.com/home.html)

The lyrics and chord structure are what make blues....kinda has to not change.

12 bars, I7,IV7, V7, iambic cadence with the first line repeated. Gospel inspired harmony. Thats blues, not just feeling crappy.


On the subject of chord sequences -

"Lightnin' change when Lightnin' want to."
Lightnin' Hopkins

You tell him he was wrong.

rory gallagher

His studio recordings never seem to live up to the excitement of his live performances - even the live LPs don't cut it next to videos of the man... he just had something undefinable. I never got to see him myself, but it certainly appears from talking to people that did see him, that he was at his best playing live.

... George Thorogood.

Just a shame that he lost his edge somewhere after the first four LPs or so.

On the subject of chord sequences -

"Lightnin' change when Lightnin' want to."
Lightnin' Hopkins

You tell him he was wrong.
I ain't gonna do it. But he more or less did that anyway. No one sat down and said this is how blues will be, after the fact they went back and went that was what blues was(is).

I ain't gonna do it. But he more or less did that anyway. No one sat down and said this is how blues will be, after the fact they went back and went that was what blues was(is).

True, to a certain extent, but what is sad is that it is now the received wisdom that the blues are a 12 bar form and nothing else, while in reality 16, 10, 8 all show up pretty regularly and then you have weird extra beats thrown in here and there. Was it Muddy Waters that had a thing for 17 bar chord sequences? (I don't think it was him, but I can't put my finger on just who it was)

True, to a certain extent, but what is sad is that it is now the received wisdom that the blues are a 12 bar form and nothing else, while in reality 16, 10, 8 all show up pretty regularly and then you have weird extra beats thrown in here and there. Was it Muddy Waters that had a thing for 17 bar chord sequences? (I don't think it was him, but I can't put my finger on just who it was)
The 12 is an easy standard, and convienient when talking to the uninitiated. In reality the length fit whatever was going on, but the cadance (the V,IV,I and church cadence) are almost always present

The 12 is an easy standard, and convienient when talking to the uninitiated. In reality the length fit whatever was going on, but the cadance (the V,IV,I and church cadence) are almost always present

I'm not denying that they are almost always present, but claiming that they must always be there is missing the point. In other words I'm disagreeing with your earlier statement "kinda has to noit change". It is the change and the deviation from the accpeted norm that makes the blues interesting - if you go back and look at the early blues classics you will find that very few of them fit neatly into that three chord, steady 4/4 beat, 12 bar formula.

I'm not denying that they are almost always present, but claiming that they must always be there is missing the point. In other words I'm disagreeing with your earlier statement "kinda has to noit change". It is the change and the deviation from the accpeted norm that makes the blues interesting - if you go back and look at the early blues classics you will find that very few of them fit neatly into that three chord, steady 4/4 beat, 12 bar formula.
There's one in every crowd.

It's a collection of criteria that doesn't require that everyone is met, but a meets a majority.

But that is a nuance that you talk about when you are making a detailed study of blues, not when you are talking to someone who does not understand the nature of Country/Delta blues.

I wasn't about to type out a detailed lecture on blues harmonies.

There's one in every crowd.

My ire isn't actually directed at you: it is directed at musicians that learn the pentatonic scale, slip in the flattend fifth, learn the 12 bar pattern and then think they have mastered the blues...

My ire isn't actually directed at you: it is directed at musicians that learn the pentatonic scale, slip in the flattend fifth, learn the 12 bar pattern and then think they have mastered the blues...
Yeah, that's irratating. But it's the fault of their mentors (or theirs for not getting one). The other alternative is to not click our tongues at them and instead help them understand.

I am predominately self taught musician.
One thing not clearly addressed in the styles of "new" BLues players or people new to Blues(especially Delta Blues) is that one singular important part is silence(or more precisely--less play), I see(hear) what starts out ot be excellent riffing that is soiled because the player feels the need ot demostrate his "chops", musical verbosity is the hallmark of the neophyte.
That is why i like cetain players more then others.
I heard BB explain it better then I ahve ever heard any else.
I can say more with one bend and my vibrato then in an entire measure sorrounded by silence then someone else playing a dozen notes to my one.
I believe it this phenom that happens with knew listeners--they hear verbosity in the playing and mistake it for musical skill. In turn they hear the real deal, which should be moving and educational(like listening to Mozart or Bach) and they hear simplistic bleh.
You boys sound a lot better learned in the technical side of Music I leave to you to translate what I said to the high tongue if you so desire, but I am certain you understand what I am saying.

I am predominately self taught musician.
One thing not clearly addressed in the styles of "new" BLues players or people new to Blues(especially Delta Blues) is that one singular important part is silence(or more precisely--less play), I see(hear) what starts out ot be excellent riffing that is soiled because the player feels the need ot demostrate his "chops", musical verbosity is the hallmark of the neophyte.


As John Cage said "the spaces between the notes are as important as the notes themselves".*





* or words to that effect.

As John Cage said "the spaces between the notes are as important as the notes themselves".*
* or words to that effect.
That is much clearer then what I said.

BB King is a genius, but you have to look before him. As a limited art form, the creators have got to be hailed as the true bluesmen, Elmore James, Robert Johnson to name but two.

If we're looking at the more modern guitarists, then Eric Clapton, Steve Ray-Vaughan, BB King, Johnny Winter...John Lee Hooker in his own way, are all fine example of blues guitar playing. Although Hendrix and Gilmour were bluesy, they were not blues guitarists, so I don't think they should be included.

Of course space between notes is important, as with any musical form, but let me just outline some drawbacks to the less is more kinda thing. If you're not actually a very good guitarist and try the less is more, you sound really bad. I've seen gigging guitarists who may be fine when shredding, but when it comes to blues they try to approach it in a minimalist way but just sound bad. so, perhaps something to aspire to rather than, for the majority, practice oneself.

I noted someone slagging off the minor pentatonic/blues scales a while back. Yes they are overused, but BB King rarely strayed from those 6 notes, Hendrix stuck mainly to the pentatonic and guitarists such as Winter and SRV used little more. It is easy to play those six notes in a flurry, but it is not easy to master them. As Hendrix said, the blues is easy to play but hard to feel. Once you've truly become able to use the scales as they were intended, then you can consider yourself a good blues guitarist. Something people like Paul Gilbert, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani are still learning, it seems.

Hmmm... Best blues guitarist... Lemme see...

B.B. King is easily the best in my opinion. Jimmy Page is an excellent blues guitarist, as well as an excellent all-around guitarist. Stevie Ray Vaughan is another great that comes to mind.

Angus Young baby...all AC/DC is based off blues.

Stevie

I have The Legend of Tommy Johnson, and my favorite tracks are Trouble Will Soon Be Over and John Law Burned Down the Liquor Store.

Outside of that album I have only heard:

Hard Time Killing Floor (His performance on O' Brother is what interested me originally)
I'm On Fire (My personal favorite)
And Like Father Like Son

I will download Why Blues if I can, could you recommend any more?

Some other good cuts are...

Born Under a Bad Sign
Stay Just As You Are
Superstitious Blues

A couple other albums you might watch for are Red Mud and Along the Blues Highway. If you like hip-hop Dirty South Hip-Hop Blues is interesting.

Robert Johnson

Just a shame that he lost his edge somewhere after the first four LPs or so.
(About George Thorogood) I wouldn't disagree - he seemed to have no place to go after those first albums.

But he has a special place for me - about the best electric blues sound I've heard was from him. I was coming home late one night from the pub and crossing through the Bullring underpass junction outside Waterloo station just before they built the Imax cinema there. They were clearing out the homeless who used to live there, and there was a party to mark the event. There was a big PA system at the back of one of the tunnels, playing Thorogood's second album at maximum volume. The (biker) DJ at the end of the tunnel was backlit with a stage light - the light and the sound of his guitar pouring out of the concrete was quite incredible.

You fecking Rule. Just because you know him.
I say Robert Johnson.

I agree, not the greatest lyrics in the world, but a gritty, basic guitar sound which sums up blues in its entirety. Sold his soul to the devil and it shows