NationStates Jolt Archive

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September 11, 2001 or the Tsunami.

No Iraq election? Oh wait, that hasn't happened yet. 9/11 then but the war in Iraq is close.

No Iraq election?

Didn't happen yet. ;)

Didn't happen yet. ;)



I know, I edited my post. Stupid me :D!

Which one on the list was the least significant?

The Hilary Duff vs Lindsay Lohan Feud for all I care. We have what... 94 years more to go.

I say the most significant would have to be 9-11. Unfortunate though it may be, it's changing the face of American politics, for better or for worse.

The tsunami is big, but I can't tell how much impact it's going to have in the future.

Which one on the list was the least significant?

Other/None of the Above

Which one on the list was the least significant?


Reagan dying.

Reagan dying.

Yeah, same here.

Savimbi's death was extremely significant- it led to the end of an almost 30 year civil war.

Arafat's death was significant, as well.

Everyone of those except the terrorist attacks September 11 could "exist all by their own". That is, Bush could've attacked Iraq in any case, and in any case, the result would've been similar. Tsunamies happen. And so on. The deaths of some politicians are totally insignificant, because one person is just one person, after all.

On the other hand, the terrorist attacks were a result of a consistent policy of ignorance by the presidential administrations dating back to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The terrorist attacks didn't just "happen" - they were "carefully nurtured" by ignorance and incompetence by the US government, all agencies. Namely, first the gov't funded a terrorist group in Afghanistan to terrorize the Soviets, then ignored the region and let the terrorism grow. Clinton didn't want to hear about "the maniac dressed in a bedsheet", and Bush better.

I think 11 September, it's either that or the death of Arafat, however the main impact of that remains to be seen and lies in the hands of Abbas, will he make peace with the Israeli's, Arafat has been THE main obstacle to peace (although israeli's were also sometimes a bit stubborn, however the main part of it is Arafat.)

11 september changed much. I think more important stuff will happen in the near future, however untill now, the 4 hijacked planes had the most impact.

The Tsunami's won't change anything, maybe their will be some impact on local rebellious groups, but not enough to really change anything significant. Many people died offcourse, however it wasn't caused by anyone (even though I've read a couple of conspiracy theories...) and it won't change much (the asian economy will keep growing (and the building industry will get a boost, while the fishing industry will have some harm) the impact will probably be a decrease of 1% (according to various economists I spoke to.)

I think it is clearly September 11, 2001.
The historic importance of this event for the 21 rst century is not even predictable today.
One thing is clear: It has changed the world. It has changed America. And it has tremendously influenced global politics (fastened certain developments (the deeuropeanisation of the US and the deepening of already existing gaps within the world).
I think that the problem of islamists terrorism is going to remain for several decades to come. Therefore September 11, as the biggest attack in the US and certainly the first of this magnitude marks the begining of a new era.
And therefore I think it is going to remain one of the most important events in the 21 rst centuries (regardless of what lays before us).
It was certainly the most significant one thus far.

I think september 11th has been important but putins re-establishment of a dictatorship will become more significant a few years from now.

The launch of Space Ship One was pretty significant.
I'll need to wait and see for Putin.

Indeed, I think untill his dictatorship is really clearly viewable (and untill he has used it to really change anything significant (except maybe russian internal politics) it won't make that much of a difference. However I wouldn't be suprised if we come back here over 15 years and look back we'll label that thing as the most important.

I say the most significant would have to be 9-11. Unfortunate though it may be, it's changing the face of American politics, for better or for worse.

The tsunami is big, but I can't tell how much impact it's going to have in the future.

Amen.

Which one on the list was the least significant?

death of yasser arafat

"Most Significant Event of the 21st Century So Far?"

11. september 2001.
It was sick to see the people jump from God knows what floor levels to their deaths.

To quote the famous author, George Soros:


"It is generally agreed that September 11, 2001, changed the course of history, but we must ask ourselves why that should be so. How could a single event, even if it involved three thousand civilian casualties, have such a far-reaching effect? The answer lies not so much in the event itself but in the way the United States, under the leadership of President George W. Bush, responded to it."

this is from the first chapter from one of his latest books, called:The Bubble of American Supremacy: Correcting the Misuse of American Power you can read the first chapter of this book at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/thebubbleofamericansupremacy.htm

I freaking can't believe how many people are picking 9/11, OMFG, do you even realize that American foreign policy kills more people a day then died on 9/11? Does that even matter to any one? I suppose who cares as long as it doesn't happen TO us. Nice people, really nice. :rolleyes:

I freaking can't believe how many people are picking 9/11, OMFG, do you even realize that American foreign policy kills more people a day then died on 9/11? Does that even matter to any one? I suppose who cares as long as it doesn't happen TO us. Nice people, really nice. :rolleyes:


It isnt that the lives of westerners are worth more, but after 9/11, some people started thinking that, ence, its dark importance.

Thinking from a political perspective, I'd say the 9/11 attacks were tremendously significant, changing the scope of US foreign policy and the the domestic policies of most western nations in order to deal with suspected "terrorists" and triggering the "war on terror" - a physical war on a mere concept, that could continue until the end of time...

I can see, however, that Putin's hold over Russia and the former territories of the USSR will become far more significant as time goes on, but at this moment in time not alot seems to have happened.

However, from a social stand point, the tsunami is perhapse the most significant event of the 21st century thus far. 100s of thousands people have been found dead, this figure rising every hour - chances are this figure will continue to rise many years from now. For many millions of people life will never be the same and the countries affected will probably never recover. Villages have been wiped off the face of the planet and the suffering will probably continue long after we're all dead.

It all depends on perspective I 'spose...

The Hilary Duff vs Lindsay Lohan Feud for all I care. We have what... 94 years more to go.

I bet when we look back 94 years from now, the 9/11 attacks and the tsunami will probably still be in the top 5, if not the the top two.

If anything bigger happens, I don't know if there will be anybody left to make the poll.

I freaking can't believe how many people are picking 9/11, OMFG, do you even realize that American foreign policy kills more people a day then died on 9/11? Does that even matter to any one? I suppose who cares as long as it doesn't happen TO us. Nice people, really nice. :rolleyes:

9/11 has begun a period of American Unilateralism (Pax Americana) that may dominate the next 50 years.

I freaking can't believe how many people are picking 9/11, OMFG, do you even realize that American foreign policy kills more people a day then died on 9/11? Does that even matter to any one? I suppose who cares as long as it doesn't happen TO us. Nice people, really nice. :rolleyes:
9/11 triggered a series of events that will be felt for a long time to come. And it's not even about the three thousand killed in that day anymore, or about feeling secure, but about the geopolitical landscape in the Middle East and the roles of the US, Europe and other powers for the rest of the century.

And of course a lot of people are dying as a consequence of US foreign policy, but many more die for other causes, too. Mainly civil war and starvation, which, contrary to popular legend, not all have their causes in the US. Plus this thread is about events, not ongoing human suffering.

However, it's still difficult to say how far reaching the consequences of 9/11 will be at the end, since it's only been three years and this century hasn't been around for long.

It will surely be regarded as far more important than the death of Reagan, that virtually nobody outside the US cared for; besides, the guy just croaked. The death of Arafat may be slightly more important, but so far I don't think it will really alter the underlying politics and causes of the Arab-Israeli conflict that much.

If anything bigger happens, I don't know if there will be anybody left to make the poll.
Well aren't you the optimist

Well aren't you the optimist

The ramifications of something even more politically charging than 9/11 could result in another world war which would most likely end with mutually assured distruction. That is a realist view, the optimist thinks that that won't happen.

I voted for 9/11 because the Iraq War and 2004 elections wouldn't be on there without it. Bush would never have gone into Iraq had he taken the time to stop 9/11 from happening, and he wouldn't be able to use it as an excuse for every single little thing that goes wrong with his administration, or dare I say, occupation of America?

The tsunami or Iraq War could eventually become bigger than 9/11, but it is too early to see that now. If this poll were conducted anywhere from 2-5 years from now, either of those might be higher on the list than 9/11. As for the least significant, I'll have to go with... death of Ronald Reagan. Yes, definitely.

On the other hand, the terrorist attacks were a result of a consistent policy of ignorance by the presidential administrations dating back to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The terrorist attacks didn't just "happen" - they were "carefully nurtured" by ignorance and incompetence by the US government, all agencies. Namely, first the gov't funded a terrorist group in Afghanistan to terrorize the Soviets, then ignored the region and let the terrorism grow. Clinton didn't want to hear about "the maniac dressed in a bedsheet", and Bush better.

What are you smoking? I want to stay away from that stuff.

The answer lies not so much in the event itself but in the way the United States, under the leadership of President George W. Bush, responded to it."

What a bunch of crap. The U.S. was attacked and more people died in that attack than died in the attack on Pear Harbor.

I freaking can't believe how many people are picking 9/11, OMFG, do you even realize that American foreign policy kills more people a day then died on 9/11? Does that even matter to any one? I suppose who cares as long as it doesn't happen TO us. Nice people, really nice. :rolleyes:

Please give me one example where American foreign policy has killed more than three thousand people in one day. :headbang:

1. Indian Ocean Earthquake + Tsunami
2. September 11th 2001 attacks on America
3. The War in Iraq 2003 - ?
4. Putin's gradual build-up of a new dictatorship in Russia
5. The death of Yasser Arafat
6. Oil-for-Food Scandal
7. The death of Jonas Savimbi
8. The 2004 U.S. Presidential election.
9. The death of Ronald Reagan

I don't see how Reagan's death was significant. He had made his mark long ago.

Not to lessen the significance of the deaths in Asia, but the WTC attacks will have far greater lasting effects than an earthquake and a tsunami. We won't output as much energy (they say the earthquake released as much energy as 1,000,000 atomic bombs) but ours will all be targeted and highly destructive.

The Tsunami's won't change anything, maybe their will be some impact on local rebellious groups, but not enough to really change anything significant.
Maybe not in terms of western politics, but millions of people's lives are forever changed. Economies are collapsing. I say that's pretty significant.

I freaking can't believe how many people are picking 9/11, OMFG, do you even realize that American foreign policy kills more people a day then died on 9/11? Does that even matter to any one? I suppose who cares as long as it doesn't happen TO us. Nice people, really nice. :rolleyes:
Has anyone else noticed Steph getting more hysterical since she became an ex-mod? Especially when talking about America or Christianity.

What are you smoking? I want to stay away from that stuff.
He's right, actually. From 1979, the US assisted fundamentalists in Afghanistan to resist the Soviets. These same fundamentalists continued to terrorise even after the Soviets had left, with their efforts culminating on 11th September 2001.

I freaking can't believe how many people are picking 9/11, OMFG, do you even realize that American foreign policy kills more people a day then died on 9/11? Does that even matter to any one? I suppose who cares as long as it doesn't happen TO us. Nice people, really nice. :rolleyes:

That is exactly why the September 11th attacks are the most significant, although I think you're overstating the numbers by a bit.

I chose the tsunami. In the end there should be a quarter to a half million people dead in this one natural disaster. Occasionally we all get a wake up call and a opportunity to let the better angels of our nature guide our actions.

Natural disasters hit you like a giant movie monster. I've been through three hurricanes this year myself and there are still a lot of homeless in my State. If the US didn't have all the early warning and evacuation systems in place we'd have a lot of dead.

Another great disaster could strike at anytime anywhere as the earth shudders. Godzilla dances at the edge of the horizon for all of us. This one will have repercussions we have yet ro realize.

That is exactly why the September 11th attacks are the most significant, although I think you're overstating the numbers by a bit.

Overstating, possibly.. the act it's self was certainly not the most significant, however after reading some of your posts, I would agree that on a political level it will indeed be the most given what has resulted and what will probably result from it sadly.

So, I retract my earlier vote and agree on those grounds that it is in fact probably 9/11.

Easily the Tsunamis, I mean they broke Petra Nemcova's spine.

Playstation 2!

The Tsunami's won't break any economy, I have spoke to various economists in the recent days and the only industry that will be hit will be the fishing industry, which just isn't the base of the Asian Economy. The Building Industry in Asia will see a boom in the coming time. The grow of the economies there is about a +5%, the Tsunami will have caused a - of 1%, that is all. Millions of live have been affected yes, they will be sad, but due to the tsunami the governments there will not decide to act totally different, to suddenly become evil and go for world dominance.

9/11 was a terrorist attack, they changed the lifes in America and in the Middle-East, it shot off a neo-conservative policy, while without 9/11 it would've been isolationist. The US Foreign Policy is what will make the difference.

People here have only chosen the tsunami's because they are fresh in our memory, but in a year no-one will choose them.

I think we need more than five years to start cobbling together this sort of a list...

The Tsunami's won't break any economy, I have spoke to various economists in the recent days and the only industry that will be hit will be the fishing industry, which just isn't the base of the Asian Economy. The Building Industry in Asia will see a boom in the coming time. The grow of the economies there is about a +5%, the Tsunami will have caused a - of 1%, that is all. Millions of live have been affected yes, they will be sad, but due to the tsunami the governments there will not decide to act totally different, to suddenly become evil and go for world dominance.

9/11 was a terrorist attack, they changed the lifes in America and in the Middle-East, it shot off a neo-conservative policy, while without 9/11 it would've been isolationist. The US Foreign Policy is what will make the difference.
I would say that the tourist industry is pretty badly affected.

Without 9/11, the US wouldn't have been isolationist. When was the last time the US went for isolationism? The 1920s? Soe justification to attack Iraq and Afghanistan and Iraq would be found.

I still maintain that the tsunami has affected more lives than 9/11 or any spin-off events from it.

IIRC GWB was heading for a isolationist course, at least those were his intentions and indeed, before 9/11 he hadn't attacked anything. The tourism industry won't change, people will still go there. The World Economy won't feel a damn thing, no new events will happen. The only reason why your all saying this is because it's fresh, it has just happened. With one year this issue will have maybe 2 voters (most likely from Asia which will still feel it while the rest of the world moves on.)

None on the list

Most significant was Rob Halford returing to Judas Priest

Well, to me, significant means the most influential on history, so I'd have to say the 2004 election. People die and it is forgotten and dismissed in time, but the outcome of the 2004 election will cause trauma for many years to come, and if things are not turned around immediately after Bush's reign, we've got a serious problem, the possible collapse and decline of the US.

Right :rolleyes: Another anti-bush propaganda brain-washed freak

I'm not sure how people possibly see the tsunami or the 2004 election as the most influential event. The international community has pissed and moaned ever since 2000 as many seem believe firmly that they are far superior to anyone from the United States. I say that's a load of shit and that we all have our flaws. The tsunami was a devastating event and is certainly in the hearts and minds of pretty much anybody with access to the media at the moment but good God- there's so much more subtle devistation in the world, annually killing more "silently" than this rogue international disaster.

As much as I hate to admit it, I really think 9/11 is probabally the most significant event of the 21st century so far. America, and pretty much any nation counting themselves allies of the States have been forced to re-evaluate both their internal and foreign policies now that they've seen this sort of attack in a place that international terrorist attacks of that magnitude are rare. Sure, shit blows up (literally) in Israel/Palestine daily but it almost seems as if the international community has become immune to such actions. 9/11 woke the American public up and said "Hey, check it out, people hate us." This created a huge political issue and keyword for politicians to use for "good" or "evil" (all depending on your personal political views.) I mean we can hardly go a week in poli sci lectures without hearing the key words "9/11." (No, I do not attend an American university.) I'm so sick of politicians bastardizing the event by twisting it to fit their own political agenda.

I think the supreme court decision of 2000 was the most significant event. If they had ruled differently Bush would never have been president. If Bush had never been president, the aftermath of the September 11th attacks would have been vastly different. Its impossible to say how things would have turned out, but there is a good chance that Osama would have been killed or captured, Saddam Hussein would still be in power and there would not have been a Gulf War II, relations with North Korea would steadily improve, and a true coalition of nations would be in the process of stamping out global terrorists.

Right, could you make those comments hard with proof? Are good relations with North Korea a good thing? Is it a good thing that Saddam would still be in power? I doubt Gore will handle North Korea and Terrorism any differently from Bush, he wouldn't have attacked Iraq indeed, which is a good thing from our perspective, but in that timeline not since Saddam will continue to torture and oppress his nation, and in the 20 years after that Saddam goes back to war with Iran and Kuwait, and Gore will get the blame by all the leftists for not getting rid of Saddam earlier on.

Right, could you make those comments hard with proof? Are good relations with North Korea a good thing? Is it a good thing that Saddam would still be in power? I doubt Gore will handle North Korea and Terrorism any differently from Bush, he wouldn't have attacked Iraq indeed, which is a good thing from our perspective, but in that timeline not since Saddam will continue to torture and oppress his nation, and in the 20 years after that Saddam goes back to war with Iran and Kuwait, and Gore will get the blame by all the leftists for not getting rid of Saddam earlier on.

How does any of that matter? The question was about the most significant event, not the worst event or best event. Whether its a good thing or not is irrelevant, the world would still be vastly different if the supreme court had ruled differently on the 2000 elections.

Hmm indeed, but 11 september changed more things.

I had to go with September 11. It was the fact that it was so sudden, and changed the world in an instant. Would the US have stayed isolationist had the attacks not happened? Perhaps. There's no way of knowing. You could also go back to the 2000 Elections and wnoder if Bush had not been elected if the attacks would have happened. There's also the measure of response that Gore would have made as well.

The Tsunami's won't break any economy, I have spoke to various economists in the recent days and the only industry that will be hit will be the fishing industry, which just isn't the base of the Asian Economy. The Building Industry in Asia will see a boom in the coming time. The grow of the economies there is about a +5%, the Tsunami will have caused a - of 1%, that is all. Millions of live have been affected yes, they will be sad, but due to the tsunami the governments there will not decide to act totally different, to suddenly become evil and go for world dominance.

9/11 was a terrorist attack, they changed the lifes in America and in the Middle-East, it shot off a neo-conservative policy, while without 9/11 it would've been isolationist. The US Foreign Policy is what will make the difference.

People here have only chosen the tsunami's because they are fresh in our memory, but in a year no-one will choose them.


No, if you go to the PNAC site you'd see that Bush and the Neocons wanted to invade Iraq before 9-11. We might not have the campaign in Afghanistan, which is doubtful because a lot of special interests want pipelines through there for Central Asian oil, the Black Sea area will be the next Persian Gulf. The PNAC plans call for permanent American bases in Central and East Asia.

The President might not have enjoyed as much American popular support for his policies, but I don't think that would stop him from a course of action where oil is in question.

I'm not saying the effects of the Tsunami will be negative, (in the long term) but they will be massive and long lasting. This is area most Americans hardly know exists, but supplies much (outside of China) of the manufactured goods, (especially electronic components) sold to them.

IIRC GWB was heading for a isolationist course, at least those were his intentions and indeed, before 9/11 he hadn't attacked anything. The tourism industry won't change, people will still go there. The World Economy won't feel a damn thing, no new events will happen. The only reason why your all saying this is because it's fresh, it has just happened. With one year this issue will have maybe 2 voters (most likely from Asia which will still feel it while the rest of the world moves on.)
Maybe he said he was isolationist, but with Rummy, Cheney and Wolfie in there I don't see how the US could ever be isolationist. They had planned to invade Afghanistan before 9/11 occured.

Why do you think people will still go there? Where there were nice resorts and tourist services there is now only destruction and mud. Not exactly attractive. That is not to mention the scare factor of further freaky weather conditions that exists in many would-be tourists minds. Thus, tourist industry = dead now.

Like on 9/11 many businesses were destroyed. This surely will affect the world economy.

Right :rolleyes: Another anti-bush propaganda brain-washed freak
Think about it. History shows that after an imperial climax of extreme nationalism, nations tend to decline.

the most important event has o be september 11 simply becuase it meant so many different things, the destruction of our human rights and liberties, iraq and afganistan (forgotten already???), new age of thinkin - don't trust anyone with a turban or a beard, governments are not for the people and by the people, fighting terrorism justifies destroying our world for everyone on it (global warming), forgeting that the leaders have done worse and sometimes aided the supposed terrorists, these are just a few of the changes thanks to the tweaking of the news to people which did help to elect G W Bush but life goes on.

its sad that people can use deaths to make their own advantages but sometimes you can't stop others.

however anything can make a difference no matter how small, enjoy your new year every1


fu