NationStates Jolt Archive

I was reading an article about the Kinsey report and I got to thinking...

Are Children sexual beings? Now, let me irriterate before you hit the reply button and start typing "no no No No NO NO NO [b]NO"

I'm thinking child abuse by adults is something that should be judged on a case by case basis, because the ability to give consent to sexual activity isn't sharded commonly among an entire age group. If it's consentual, then there's really no harm being done to the child. If a child has sex with an adult and it's entirely consentual, the trauma is usually inflicted by his/her parents who show their shock and disgust, and that's where the child becomes afraid and hurt.

I'm thinking that child sexual abuse should be judged on a case by basis.

I'm thinking that you should be kept away from children.

I was reading an article about the Kinsey report and I got to thinking...

Are Children sexual beings? Now, let me irriterate before you hit the reply button and start typing "no no No No NO NO NO [b]NO"

I'm thinking child abuse by adults is something that should be judged on a case by case basis, because the ability to give consent to sexual activity isn't sharded commonly among an entire age group. If it's consentual, then there's really no harm being done to the child. If a child has sex with an adult and it's entirely consentual, the trauma is usually inflicted by his/her parents who show their shock and disgust, and that's where the child becomes afraid and hurt.

I'm thinking that child sexual abuse should be judged on a case by basis.
I don't know where YOU live, but in the United States, every criminal case is judged on a "case-by-case basis." It's called "right to trial by jury."

To continue ... no child ... NO CHILD ... is capable of giving informed consent!

No.

I'm thinking that you should be kept away from children.
I was thinking that too.

BTW, does anyone have this guy's I.P, address? You know...just in case.


(seriously though, don't freak us out)

Are Children sexual beings?

Yes. Next question.

Not really. If an adult has sex with anyone younger than 18, it's rape.

There is no flexibility on this.

Depends on your definition of child. If you're talking about children who have yet to reach puberty, then no, it's child abuse. But if you're talking about teenagers...then I think I may agree with you, because they are capable of making informed decisions. Though I still wouldn't allow it younger than sixteen...

BTW, does anyone have this guy's I.P, address? You know...just in case.

Banning someone for their ideas?

Good thing Nation States isn't a place where that kind of thing happens.

But thanks for the threat. I appreciated it.

Yes. Next question.
0.o?

Banning someone for their ideas?

Good thing Nation States isn't a place where that kind of thing happens.

But thanks for the threat. I appreciated it.Actually, your I.P. address leads the police to your home as far as I know.

Banning someone for their ideas?

Good thing Nation States isn't a place where that kind of thing happens.

But thanks for the threat. I appreciated it.
Um ... who said anything about "banning" anyone for any reason???

wtf?

dude, no, are you insane?

I think I know too much about sex than I should, so i wouldn't mind having sex with some hot adult

Not really. If an adult has sex with anyone younger than 18, it's rape.

There is no flexibility on this.

Actually, it depends on the exact age of the people involved. Most states have an age limit. If it is an 18 yr. old and a 17 yr. old, for instance, there is rarely a criminal case (unless the 18 yr. old is a black male, and the girl is a white female in the south).

Why are these tolerated? Basically, it is because there is not a huge difference in mentality between the two. If a young person (say, 14) is getting attention from an adult (say, 25), that young person is going to feel much more pressure to go to greater lengths to keep that attention. They aren't going to feel like they can say no to that person, because the person is automatically in a place of authority.

In cases where the sex act is not physically forced, the reasoning behind statutory rape is that it is unfairly and unduly *coerced*, simply by the nature of the relationship. An adult is generally capable of understanding and weighing the pros and cons of entering a sexual relationship. A child is not.

The exact point at which we place the distinction between adult and child is somewhat arbitrary, of course. Some may be able to fully understand that decision at 17, some at 20, some not until 35, some at 15. Basically, the powers that be took a safe average.

Oh, so you want me arrested for my ideas.

And I'm 14 years old, asshole. I can't be arrested for having sex with a kid. I am one. Not that I want to have sex, but I digress

You're an asshole. Give reasons for why you say those things about me, just saying wtf and "are you insane" doesn't constitute much of a post

I think I know too much about sex than I should, so i wouldn't mind having sex with some hot adult
Well then; You go ahead and ruin your life.

BTW:
NO!!! Persia; you give me the creeps!

Are the people who are claiming that children are not sexual beings seriously claiming that before the magical age of consent (whatever the local powers that be set it at) they have absolutely no sexuality?

Oh, so you want me arrested for my ideas.

And I'm 14 years old, asshole. I can't be arrested for having sex with a kid. I am one. Not that I want to have sex, but I digress

You're an asshole. Give reasons for why you say those things about me, just saying wtf and "are you insane" doesn't constitute much of a post
Dude, calm down, because it hurts any debate you make if you act in kind. Honestly, it's nice to see such thoughts coming from a fourteen year old; you just don't see it all that often anymore. And by those thoughts I mean intelligent and debate worthy.

Oh, so you want me arrested for my ideas.

And I'm 14 years old, asshole. I can't be arrested for having sex with a kid. I am one. Not that I want to have sex, but I digress

You're an asshole. Give reasons for why you say those things about me, just saying wtf and "are you insane" doesn't constitute much of a post
I didn't flame you man. Just remember that.

Are the people who are claiming that children are not sexual beings seriously claiming that before the magical age of consent (whatever the local powers that be set it at) they have absolutely no sexuality?

I think people are claiming that children should not be seen as sexual objects by adults.

Obviously, especially during/post-puberty, children themselves exhibit sexuality.

(unless the 18 yr. old is a black male, and the girl is a white female in the south)
Please stop this. There are as many interracial couples ( if not more ) in the South as there are in the rest of the Country.

I think people are claiming that children should not be seen as sexual objects by adults.

Obviously, especially during/post-puberty, children themselves exhibit sexuality.


Which is answering a completely different question to the initial one: not 'are children valid sexual objects', but ' are children sexual beings'.

I think people are claiming that children should not be seen as sexual objects by adults.

Obviously, especially during/post-puberty, children themselves exhibit sexuality.
I totally agree.

Let's nuke Mecca, Jerusalem, Ayodhya, and the Vatican.

Enough of this fighting over religious sites. After they are nuked the ones willing to go into these radiated holy sites first are the truly faithful and get to keep them.
Sorry, I think you clicked on the wrong thread...
;)
Just a tip.

Oh, so you want me arrested for my ideas.

And I'm 14 years old, asshole. I can't be arrested for having sex with a kid. I am one. Not that I want to have sex, but I digress

You're an asshole. Give reasons for why you say those things about me, just saying wtf and "are you insane" doesn't constitute much of a post
1. No, they want to arrest you for what your ideas might lead to.

2. Yes, you can be arrested for having sex with a kid. If you go around raping kids, your going to be arrested. If you have sex with a nine year old (not saying you WOULD), you WILL be arrested.

3. No, hes a person with ideas that differ from yours. Its a free internet (mostly), get used to it.

I am aware that those of about 16 years of age are quite capable of making descisions, but discouraging sex amoung those who generaly dont hold jobs capable of supporting a family seems good. Amoung those who are less than (about) 16 years old, its not a good thing.

Please stop this. There are as many interracial couples ( if not more ) in the South as there are in the rest of the Country.

But only in the south does an 18 year old black high school quarterback get ten years for having consentual sex with his 16 year old white girlfriend, losing his full-ride scholarship to Duke. And this was just last year.

I did not mean in any way to suggest that there are no interracial couples. However, it is pretty clear that in the rural parts of the South, someone who is black is much, much more likely to get prosecuted for certain crimes than someone who is not.

Edit: He may not have been a quarterback, I don't remember exactly what position he played.

Actually, it depends on the exact age of the people involved. Most states have an age limit. If it is an 18 yr. old and a 17 yr. old, for instance, there is rarely a criminal case (unless the 18 yr. old is a black male, and the girl is a white female in the south).

Why are these tolerated? Basically, it is because there is not a huge difference in mentality between the two. If a young person (say, 14) is getting attention from an adult (say, 25), that young person is going to feel much more pressure to go to greater lengths to keep that attention. They aren't going to feel like they can say no to that person, because the person is automatically in a place of authority.

In cases where the sex act is not physically forced, the reasoning behind statutory rape is that it is unfairly and unduly *coerced*, simply by the nature of the relationship. An adult is generally capable of understanding and weighing the pros and cons of entering a sexual relationship. A child is not.

The exact point at which we place the distinction between adult and child is somewhat arbitrary, of course. Some may be able to fully understand that decision at 17, some at 20, some not until 35, some at 15. Basically, the powers that be took a safe average

Yes, adults can manipulate children, but adults manipulate each other all the time also. Manipulating consent is done constantly by all sorts of consentual parties, but even so, does that harm that child?

I was reading an article about the Kinsey report and I got to thinking...

Are Children sexual beings? Now, let me irriterate before you hit the reply button and start typing "no no No No NO NO NO [b]NO"

I'm thinking child abuse by adults is something that should be judged on a case by case basis, because the ability to give consent to sexual activity isn't sharded commonly among an entire age group. If it's consentual, then there's really no harm being done to the child. If a child has sex with an adult and it's entirely consentual, the trauma is usually inflicted by his/her parents who show their shock and disgust, and that's where the child becomes afraid and hurt.

I'm thinking that child sexual abuse should be judged on a case by basis.


Are you takling about an 18 year old adult having sex with a 17 year old minor or are you talking about a 30 year old adult having sex with a 10 year old child?

Well according to Freud and Jung yes, but sexuality is express differently than in adolescents and adults. Perhaps proto-sexual or pre-sexual would be more accurate.

I remember that when I was in grade school I fell in love with at least one girl a year and would have romantic fantasies that usually included me saving her from something, (monsters of all sorts, bad guys, or whatever came to mind). Yet all girls had the dreaded "Cooties", I mean how confusing is that.

I would bet that just about every man on this forum has similar memories.

I was reading an article about the Kinsey report and I got to thinking...

Are Children sexual beings? Now, let me irriterate before you hit the reply button and start typing "no no No No NO NO NO [b]NO"

I'm thinking child abuse by adults is something that should be judged on a case by case basis, because the ability to give consent to sexual activity isn't sharded commonly among an entire age group. If it's consentual, then there's really no harm being done to the child. If a child has sex with an adult and it's entirely consentual, the trauma is usually inflicted by his/her parents who show their shock and disgust, and that's where the child becomes afraid and hurt.

I'm thinking that child sexual abuse should be judged on a case by basis.


Are you takling about an 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old or are you talking about a 30 year old having sex with a 10 year old ?

Yes, adults can manipulate children, but adults manipulate each other all the time also.

Which is pretty much wrong across the board. However, it is much easier for an adult to manipulate a child, than another adult.

Manipulating consent is done constantly by all sorts of consentual parties, but even so, does that harm that child?

Manipulation, once realized, harms anyone. However, it can do much more damage to a child, who is still developing emotionally, socially, and even physically. Entering a sexual relationship at a young age, before a child truly understands all of the ramifications of said relationship, can cause many psychological problems later in life. There are issues involved that a child should never have to deal with.

Well according to Freud and Jung yes, but sexuality is express differently than in adolescents and adults. Perhaps proto-sexual or pre-sexual would be more accurate.

I remember that when I was in grade school I fell in love with at least one girl a year and would have romantic fantasies that usually included me saving her from something, (monsters of all sorts, bad guys, or whatever came to mind). Yet all girls had the dreaded "Cooties", I mean how confusing is that.

I would bet that just about every man on this forum has similar memories edit: from when they were boys between the ages of five to twelve.

I believe that like adults, that some children are sexual beings while others aren't, but as to child abuse, I belive that once some one reaches sexual maturity they should be able of consential entercourse, ie 14 and up, as for those below the age of sexual maturity, there is no if ands or buts about it, an adult and a premature toddler don't mix, if two toddlers wish to engge in entercourse with each other then thats ok, but no way with a sexualy mature adult. Just makes since, if two teens can have sex consentialy with each other, so should two toddlers.

Well according to Freud and Jung yes, but sexuality is express differently than in adolescents and adults. Perhaps proto-sexual or pre-sexual would be more accurate.

I remember that when I was in grade school I fell in love with at least one girl a year and would have romantic fantasies that usually included me saving her from something, (monsters of all sorts, bad guys, or whatever came to mind). Yet all girls had the dreaded "Cooties", I mean how confusing is that.

I would bet that just about every man on this forum has similar memories edit: from when they were boys between the ages of five to twelve.
I was mastubating at 8, and having dreams when I was 6, so that goes a long way to explain me.

Which is pretty much wrong across the board. However, it is much easier for an adult to manipulate a child, than another adult.

Manipulation, once realized, harms anyone. However, it can do much more damage to a child, who is still developing emotionally, socially, and even physically. Entering a sexual relationship at a young age, before a child truly understands all of the ramifications of said relationship, can cause many psychological problems later in life. There are issues involved that a child should never have to deal with.

But please remeber that just because there's a child-adult relationship, manipulation being present in any form isn't always a given. Like I said, it should be case by case.

But please remeber that just because there's a child-adult relationship, manipulation being present in any form isn't always a given. Like I said, it should be case by case.

Except it is implicit in the relationship. An adult can fully understand the implications of a sexual relationship and knows that a child cannot. An adult also knows that children look up to adults, and that, especially to a pubescent child, any attention from an older member of the gender to which they are attracted is going to be viewed as something they want to hold onto. In such a relationship, a child is automatically going to feel pressured to be more adult in order to keep that attention coming, and to do things they might not do if the other person was of a similar age. An adult realizes this and, if they still initiate such a relationship with a child, are by default manipulating those facts.

Children are Sexual Beings; that is to say beings that have an interest or curiosity about sex. Since children grow up to be adults, its natural to assume that sexuality does spring full force into the adult mind from nowhere. It traces back to childhood, with the mix of innocence and exploration...the same kind of exploration that drives kids to touch hot stoves and stick forks in electrical outlets.

Thus the sexual nature of mankind and the ability to judge and be responsible for behaviour and repercussions are very different.

It is fair to say that age of consent laws are in place to shield children and "pre-adults" from both sexual predation and themselves. Because hormones are not anywhere near in balance during puberty, lust can easily overpower common sense that much more in teens, when hormones have not yet achieved balance.

Predation is only one of two concerns; the child/early teen group must be educated and informed about their own bodies and what happens during sex before one can believe that they will make informed and reasonable choices about the subject.

So to answer your question; yes they are. To understand the sexuality of ALL human beings is important. Children are both curious and prone to mistakes because they are still growing and only know what they have learned and inferred.

I was mastubating at 8, and having dreams when I was 6, so that goes a long way to explain me.

I'd have to say you were a little advanced by a few standards, but who's to say what's normal for your part of the world or specific genetic makeup. I know I didn't start adolescence until I was twelve and some start earlier or later.

Perisa may feel very mature and worldly but I remember being that age. I was considered very bright and mature when I was 15. A local guy (a cop, as a matter of fact) that paid very flattering attention to me. He flirted with me on a regular basis. He was somewhere in his late twenties. One night he invited me over for drinks and we had sex. The whole thing was confusing enough at the time, but now I look back and think 'What a sick f*ck!'

It's the unknowns that cause such laws to be important to my eyes.

Some children are capable of understanding that their actions have consequences.
Some children are of a fit state to make their own sexual choices.
Some adults are not going to take advantage of their authority-figure status to coerce children to have sex.
Some adult-child sexual relationships can be healthy. Historically, in the past, many people would not have been so shocked at a 30 year old marrying a 14 year old.

The problem is deciding who makes the decision on what is normal and in the best interest of these children and what is unhealthy and damaging.

The child? How do we measure a child's respinsibility and sexual awareness?
The parents? Can they be objective? Can they be manipulative themselves?
The government? Oh, please. :rolleyes:
The Church? Oh, please squared. :rolleyes:

I can understand why it's safer to just make it illegal for adults to have sex, consentual or otherwise, with children below a certain age. It's like driving or drinking alcohol.

I'm not saying it's the best policy. But it's far safer than the variables involved in a case-by-case basis.

To be honest, 18 is a pretty arbritrary age to set as the age of consent, but it is better to "err on the side of caution" than to let immature individuals get preyed upon.

But remember, it wasn't that long ago (a few centuries) that people were routinely having children as young as 12 and 13. Also remember that age of consent varies in countries around the world - it even varies from state to state in the USA. The whole age of consent issue is very subjective - there would be some individuals more mature at 15 than some 20 year olds.

Hooking up with someone at a nightclub who turns out to be 17 or 16 is a far cry from someone snatching an 8 year old from a playground, or a family member that molests a small child.

All in all, it is generally better for the law to set the age of consent at a "high minimum" than to allow children to be taken advantage of.

Perisa may feel very mature and worldly but I remember being that age. I was considered very bright and mature when I was 15. A local guy (a cop, as a matter of fact) that paid very flattering attention to me. He flirted with me on a regular basis. He was somewhere in his late twenties. One night he invited me over for drinks and we had sex. The whole thing was confusing enough at the time, but now I look back and think 'What a sick f*ck!'

Um...all I can say, wtf?

I presented an arguement and you present me with speculation that I'm some pompous teenager who wants to have sex with someone older than me? And what you did was dumb regardless of what age you were, (15, 18, 28, 35, etc)

I'm sorry if my position isn't changed by you consentually having sex with someone who's practically a stranger.

now I look back and think 'What a sick f*ck!'
you know he probably thinks the same about you for unwittingly or not, seducing him.

Okay most people are repulsed by the idea of a adult/child sexual relationship but what if it is between two children of the same age group is there anything really wrong with that? Or is this just a cultural thing?

Sexual beans give me gas.

Of course children are sexuel beeings. Or do you still believe that kids are delivered by the stork?

Sexual beans give me gas.
me too, and too many lead to well....u know

I was reading an article about the Kinsey report and I got to thinking...

Are Children sexual beings? Now, let me irriterate before you hit the reply button and start typing "no no No No NO NO NO [b]NO"

I'm thinking child abuse by adults is something that should be judged on a case by case basis, because the ability to give consent to sexual activity isn't sharded commonly among an entire age group. If it's consentual, then there's really no harm being done to the child. If a child has sex with an adult and it's entirely consentual, the trauma is usually inflicted by his/her parents who show their shock and disgust, and that's where the child becomes afraid and hurt.

I'm thinking that child sexual abuse should be judged on a case by basis.

Informed and therefore non-exploitative "consent" is not possible in an adult-child relationship.

Kindly let Michael jackson argue his own case.

Not really. If an adult has sex with anyone younger than 18, it's rape.

There is no flexibility on this.

Then can you explain why in some highly developed coutries, consensual sex can begin as early as thirteen? Even Japan, which is notoriously conservative about sex.

Then can you explain why in some highly developed coutries, consensual sex can begin as early as thirteen? Even Japan, which is notoriously conservative about sex.
By highly developed you mean Saudi Arabia?

I suppose the big problem here is where to set the age of consent. I mean, every adolescent (being one of them, there is no way I'd refer to myself as a "child") comes into this understanding at a different time. I like to think I'm a mature, responsible person with the decision-making powers of an adult. But that could just be a load of garbage ;) .

Anyway, here's my "if I ruled the world" plan that, sadly, the multiple-choice format of NationStates issues can't quite accommodate:

Most governments make people obtain licenses before they can legally take to the streets in a car. Why not do the same for sex? Make it consensual sex a crime if either partner does not have a sex license. (Nonconsensual sex will, of course, be prosecuted as rape, punishable by revocation of one's license, among other punishments.)

To get a sex license, one will have to be of a certain age. I'd recommend setting this age as low as plausible -- twelve, thirteen, or fourteen, maybe -- but that's just me. I suppose I could live with the age being fifteen or sixteen. Then, to get one's license, there'd have to be a test on basic knowledge of sexual health issues like contraception and sexual diseases. There'd also have to be a psychological assessment by a panel of professionals to determine if the candidate is mature enough for a sex license. If the candidate is, and he or she passes the test, then a license is granted and off they go. If for some reason, the candidate fails, he or she can try again. However, if the candidate is found immature, they there'll be some sort of cooling-off period, say maybe four to six months.

These requirements would apply to everybody, not just minors, though I suppose the requirements could be made tougher for those under 18.


Anyway, there's my out-of-the-box thinking on the whole thing. (If any national government filches my idea without giving me credit, though, I shall get rather angry. Sadly, that's probably all I'll be able to do.)

--A pretentious sixteen-year-old who, for the record, definitely isn't likely to lose his virginity any time soon

Informed and therefore non-exploitative "consent" is not possible in an adult-child relationship.

Why? is a 16 year old so much more mature then a 15 year old?

The whole premise of this thread is a little weird. I mean, people become sexual beings when and after they go through puberty, and that doesn't necessarily mean you're having sex, it just means you're aware of it, and your slowly maturing to the point where you're ready to have it, and that's not for a good long time.

THese teachers sexually abusing students thing, is just completelly wrong. It's disgusting, and to think other wise is absolutelly crazy.

Then can you explain why in some highly developed coutries, consensual sex can begin as early as thirteen? Even Japan, which is notoriously conservative about sex.

AHAHAHA.

Yeah, I'm done taking you seriously. You're telling me that the country in which I can buy all manner of bizarre-as shit, including USED SCHOOLGIRLS' PANTIES IN VENDING MACHINES, is 'notoriously conservative' about sex?

Japan, the country that use to have no age of consent?

HAH. Yeah right.

Why? is a 16 year old so much more mature then a 15 year old?

Possibly, possibly not. There will, obviously, be a large range of individual differences.

The problem is that a legal/moral guideline has to be set somewhere.

What age is a different question.

The original post topic referred to "children", not even to adolescents.

At what age do people stop being "children"?

Even Japan, which is notoriously conservative about sex.

Notoriously conservative is a relative term, I guess. When I was there porn magazines were sold on the same shelf as children's magazines and sections of Tokyo had open advertisements for prostitution.

Modinel

License needed to have sex? Laws that can't be enforced are always a bad idea.

Modinel

License needed to have sex? Laws that can't be enforced are always a bad idea.

New pick-up line: "Hey, baby. I have a class-A license! *waggles eyebrows*"

WOuld prostitutes have to have combination plates? :confused:

Unfortunately, in America we have the tiresome North American Man/Boy Love Association, which insists that sex between children and adults is "mentoring" them and somehow "prepares" them for adulthood, ad nauseum. As a teacher, I've seen teenagers act as though the fetus just might "go away" if the girl ignores it long enough, so I seriously doubt teens are ready for sex. As for children, I've seen little boys acting like they're entitled to "pork" little girls, and I can only blame stupid adults for letting kids WATCH this garbage in the first place. As sex and violence is BIG in advertising, what else can we expect? I don't see any good about kids having sex, even teens.

I was reading an article about the Kinsey report and I got to thinking...

Are Children sexual beings? Now, let me irriterate before you hit the reply button and start typing "no no No No NO NO NO [b]NO"

I'm thinking child abuse by adults is something that should be judged on a case by case basis, because the ability to give consent to sexual activity isn't sharded commonly among an entire age group. If it's consentual, then there's really no harm being done to the child. If a child has sex with an adult and it's entirely consentual, the trauma is usually inflicted by his/her parents who show their shock and disgust, and that's where the child becomes afraid and hurt.

I'm thinking that child sexual abuse should be judged on a case by basis.

What is the matter with you?
A child can say anything he or she has heard before but that does not mean that they understand what they are saying.
ALL such cases of underage sex should be put to the courts.

i'm just wondering when u say a child how old are we talking?

i'm just wondering when u say a child how old are we talking?
That seems to be the real question here

you know he probably thinks the same about you for unwittingly or not, seducing him.
You scare me! You sound like the rapist who blames his victim for dressing sexy. :mad:

i don't think 5 years olds should be having sex. I think u should be at least 15 old or up but everyone knows 13 and 14 years olds are having sex and i think its stupid when two 14 years olds have sex and if they both get caught they both get tried for saturator rape. if they're both the same age they both have the same capabilty to consent so i see nothing wrong with that. if it is a 15year old with a 19 year old then its straight up against the law but the 15 year old level of matureity should be brought to question to determine the stenceing the 19year old should get.

i don't think 5 years olds should be having sex. I think u should be at least 15 old or up but everyone knows 13 and 14 years olds are having sex and i think its stupid when two 14 years olds have sex and if they both get caught they both get tried for saturator rape. if they're both the same age they both have the same capabilty to consent so i see nothing wrong with that. if it is a 15year old with a 19 year old then its straight up against the law but the 15 year old level of matureity should be brought to question to determine the stenceing the 19year old should get.
What does the maturity of the 15-year old have to do with it? And how would you measure that maturity? If the 19-year old had sex with the 15-year old, the law has been broken, and the 19-year old knows it, whether the 15-year old is "mature" or not.

What does the maturity of the 15-year old have to do with it? And how would you measure that maturity? If the 19-year old had sex with the 15-year old, the law has been broken, and the 19-year old knows it, whether the 15-year old is "mature" or not.


some phy test measure almost anything now-a-days but it should be brought into question b/c it shows that the 15 year knew wat was going on and let it go on, that it wasn't aggrvative rape or "date" rape.

I think that you're right, and that maturity should come into it. The test should be an IQ test. This would also cut down on the number of stupid people being born. :D

The real problem arises that people mature at different rates, so the government shouldn't really dictate when you are ready. I can understand why they do it though, as with no laws the number of teenage preganacies would go through the roof.

Furthermore, the government has placed no restrictions on "foreplay". however, doesn't this just lead to sexual activity?

You scare me! You sound like the rapist who blames his victim for dressing sexy. :mad:
she said she consented, she knew what she was doing I dont see how she can call him a sicko.

i understand where people are coming from they'er saying anybody under 18 with anybody with 18 and older is rape but here what about a 17 year old with a 18 year old should the 18 year old go to jail?

she said she consented
She was also 14 at the time! Just how did she "seduce" him? She didn't invite him to her place, and I'm pretty sure she wasn't the one who made the sexual advances, so how is she the seductress?

She was also 14 at the time! Just how did she "seduce" him? She didn't invite him to her place, and I'm pretty sure she wasn't the one who made the sexual advances, so how is she the seductress?


u ever see "fast times at ridegment high" good movie a 15 year old seduces a 25 year old...... its an aight movie

I think that you're right, and that maturity should come into it. The test should be an IQ test.

some phy test measure almost anything now-a-days but it should be brought into question b/c it shows that the 15 year knew wat was going on and let it go on, that it wasn't aggrvative rape or "date" rape.

All an IQ test shows is how intelligent someone is. I could test an 8-year old and get a high IQ.

Statutory rape is not defined by physical force, but by the simple fact that sex occurred with a minor.

So, once again, I ask you, how can you guage a person's maturity with regards to handling sex?

One good guage might be their ability to support any child that might result?

She was also 14 at the time! Just how did she "seduce" him? She didn't invite him to her place, and I'm pretty sure she wasn't the one who made the sexual advances, so how is she the seductress?
She accepted his invitation she obviously responded to his advances likewise, seduction works both ways

u ever see "fast times at ridegment high" good movie a 15 year old seduces a 25 year old...... its an aight movie
I did see it, but a long time ago, so I don't remember the details at all. However, as you describe it, the 25 year old should have known better than to have sex with a girl a little over half his age, still in high school, etc. She may have "sexual" maturity, but it takes more than that to understand the psychological impact sex can have over time. Sex is more than just the physical act; it creates an emotional bond, even when done casually. Easy to manipulate at the age of 15.

One good guage might be their ability to support any child that might result?

Good point, but will this also apply to adults? Some adults have children when they cannot afford to support the child properly. Shouldn't we try and keep a level playing field for all?

Who says sex liscenses can't be enforced, just have chastity devices attached to everyone at birth and removed when a liscense is issued. I would like to add that testing for technique should be required, as well. I'm sure everyone has heard horror stories of sexual partners so bad that the experience changes one's sexual orintation. Well, I'm sure those are exagerations, but there is such a thing as bad sex and I believe that it should be a crime.

As for the original question, prepubecent children understand that it feels good to touch their peepees. They are also currious about the things that adults keep hidden.
Children often do things have thoughts that adults would consider to be sexual. However, these things simply don't have th esame meaning to children. To prepubecent children, sex simply isn't sexual. The adult understanding of sexuality is deeply rooted in hormones that children don't have.

As for the post-pubecent. Well, that depends on socilization really. Childhood is very much an invention of the industrial revolution. Before that, children were just short, inexperienced adults. Adolecence is very much the same, a social artifice that arose due to unprecidented econimoc prospertiy combined with the niave visions of doteing parents. With the proper scoial attitudes, it would be possible to have teenagers who are ready to go to work and start families at 13 or 14. Currently, society isn't ready for that. For one thing, the school systems aren't good enough. Very few people graduate college by the age of 14 and teenagers who have children before graduating from high school tend to by stuck in a viscious cycle of state welfare. If there were no other reason, this would be enough to discourage teenage sex. However, as it has been pointed out, those who are older tend to have an advantage in such relationships.

On a final note. Michael Jackson is innocent, it was all a ploy to get money.

She accepted his invitation she obviously responded to his advances likewise, seduction works both ways

Merriam-Webster Online - seduction:
1 : the act of seducing to wrong; especially : the often unlawful enticement of a female to sexual intercourse

He initiated the wrong, or unlawful if you will, act, therefore, he is the seducer. And the statutory rapist.

Good point, but will this also apply to adults? Some adults have children when they cannot afford to support the child properly. Shouldn't we try and keep a level playing field for all?
Children are NOT on the same "level" as adults - ergo, they are called "children" as opposed to adults. They have less life experience, both in time and in breadth of experience, less knowledge, less emotional, physical, self, and sexual control. This has long been recognized, which is why we have a juvenile and adult justice system.

................
Statutory rape is not defined by physical force, but by the simple fact that sex occurred with a minor..............




let face it some laws are so bullshit. yes if ur under 18 and u have sex with anyone 18 or older is staturtory rape but wat if their 17? what if there both the same age? its like underage drinking yea its aganst the law if ur under 21 (18 som places) but if ur with ur family and ur drinking with them ur breaking the law but does it seem so bad? just today i drove on the road with my permitt, mom does not have a licens so i should have don't it but my dad needed me to follow him and there is no one else who drives in the family so wat was i supposed to do? some laws aren't that clear or there just dumb, i just found out in fairbanks AK its against the law to have a moose on the sidewalk.

Then can you explain why in some highly developed coutries, consensual sex can begin as early as thirteen? Even Japan, which is notoriously conservative about sex.

ROFLOL. Since when is Japan conservative about sex. When I was there, porn was openly displayed in just about every, wait a minute, make that every, convienance store I walked in. I remember walking in the video store, and seeing a hardcore video right next to 2 Disney movies. This doesn't strike me as being conservative about sex at all.

All an IQ test shows is how intelligent someone is.

and IQ tests are quite poor at that.

Children are NOT on the same "level" as adults - ergo, they are called "children" as opposed to adults. They have less life experience, both in time and in breadth of experience, less knowledge, less emotional, physical, self, and sexual control. This has long been recognized, which is why we have a juvenile and adult justice system.

However, in this instance, if you were to impose something on children but not on adults, you would quite probably stir up deep resentment for authority. I for one would take offense at such a measure, and I am sure some of my peers would feel the same. The act commited is the same, so why should the law differ? I can see that in other cases it may be necessary for different rules to apply, but in this instance it would quite likely be disastrous.

ROFLOL. Since when is Japan conservative about sex. When I was there, porn was openly displayed in just about every, wait a minute, make that every, convienance store I walked in. I remember walking in the video store, and seeing a hardcore video right next to 2 Disney movies. This doesn't strike me as being conservative about sex at all.

Those hardcore movies were most likely censored. The tentacle sex genre of anime originated because Japan's censorship laws prohibit showing an erect penis. Phallic tentacles fit into a legal loophole. Japan isn't as conservative as the US, but it is conservative in its own way.

let face it some laws are so bullshit. yes if ur under 18 and u have sex with anyone 18 or older is staturtory rape but wat if their 17? what if there both the same age? its like underage drinking yea its aganst the law if ur under 21 (18 som places) but if ur with ur family and ur drinking with them ur breaking the law but does it seem so bad? just today i drove on the road with my permitt, mom does not have a licens so i should have don't it but my dad needed me to follow him and there is no one else who drives in the family so wat was i supposed to do? some laws aren't that clear or there just dumb, i just found out in fairbanks AK its against the law to have a moose on the sidewalk.
Laws are put into place for a reason. Statutory rape laws were put into place to stop adults from taking advantage of children's lower maturity and more easily malleable nature. If an 18-year old has sex with a 17-year old, the law says it is a crime. The sentence is not likely to be the max, more likely probation, in that case. Actually, as far as drinking goes, if you are with your family, at least in my state, you can drink legally, it's just they have to give it to you, you can't buy it yourself. And since the drinking age has been raised to 21, DWI's have gone down significantly, so I don't think it is silly at all.

Merriam-Webster Online - seduction:
1 : the act of seducing to wrong; especially : the often unlawful enticement of a female to sexual intercourse

He initiated the wrong, or unlawful if you will, act, therefore, he is the seducer. And the statutory rapist.
whether it was lawful or not is irrelevant because the real question being debated is whether that law is correct.

Whether he initiated it or not is irrelevant, if she refused I would be completly on your side, she knew what she was doing, she accepted it, just because she now regrets it gives her no right to call the guy a sicko.

Those hardcore movies were most likely censored. The tentacle sex genre of anime originated because Japan's censorship laws prohibit showing an erect penis. Phallic tentacles fit into a legal loophole. Japan isn't as conservative as the US, but it is conservative in its own way.
i'm not sure if its true or not but i was told those laws are old once that were taken off the books in sometime 1999 but i could be wrong. it was one of those i heard from a friend of a friend thing.




NIGHT ALL

However, in this instance, if you were to impose something on children but not on adults, you would quite probably stir up deep resentment for authority. I for one would take offense at such a measure, and I am sure some of my peers would feel the same. The act commited is the same, so why should the law differ? I can see that in other cases it may be necessary for different rules to apply, but in this instance it would quite likely be disastrous.
Well, the law, and most reputable psychologists, disagree. While children, and teenagers, certainly are "sexual" beings, they do not have the maturity to fully understand the emotional, psychological, and mental consequences of sexual activity. Therefore we have statutory rape laws, and children having sex under the age of 18, even with each other, is frowned upon. Teenagers are going to have a deep resentment for authority, regardless of what the adults do. Tough nookies.

Laws are put into place for a reason. Statutory rape laws were put into place to stop adults from taking advantage of children's lower maturity and more easily malleable nature. If an 18-year old has sex with a 17-year old, the law says it is a crime. The sentence is not likely to be the max, more likely probation, in that case. Actually, as far as drinking goes, if you are with your family, at least in my state, you can drink legally, it's just they have to give it to you, you can't buy it yourself. And since the drinking age has been raised to 21, DWI's have gone down significantly, so I don't think it is silly at all.
Laws are not perfect and can be changed. The debate is not if it is legal.

whether it was lawful or not is irrelevant because the real question being debated is whether that law is correct.

Whether he initiated it or not is irrelevant, if she refused I would be completly on your side, she knew what she was doing, she accepted it, just because she now regrets it gives her no right to call the guy a sicko.
So you think it's perfectly ok to have sex with 14 year olds? Please do not become a teacher, bus driver, or anyone associating with kids in my town. They might "seduce" you and then call you a sicko. Which you ARE, if you have sex with a 14 year old, for ANY reason.

How can anyone understand the full consequnces of sex until they've actually done it? By the way, the age for consent in the UK is 16, and we have a biig problem with teenage pregnancy

Children are NOT on the same "level" as adults - ergo, they are called "children" as opposed to adults. They have less life experience, both in time and in breadth of experience, less knowledge, less emotional, physical, self, and sexual control. This has long been recognized, which is why we have a juvenile and adult justice system.

This has more to do with socialization than to something inate to chronological age. "Juviniles" have less self control because we expect them to have less self control. As I mentioned before, the adolecence isn't a biological state, it is a social invention perpertrated by the economic prosperity of first world nations. It has more to do with providing for an educated workforce than to protecting "children". Quite simply, if people are children longer then they can be forced to go to school longer, which is good for society as a whole. If adolecents were universally treated as adults in a society, then they would have the soam self control and sense of responsibility that all adults in that society have.

whether it was lawful or not is irrelevant because the real question being debated is whether that law is correct.

Whether he initiated it or not is irrelevant, if she refused I would be completly on your side, she knew what she was doing, she accepted it, just because she now regrets it gives her no right to call the guy a sicko.
So the only way sex with a 14-year old girl by a 25 year old man would be viewed as wrong by you would be if he raped her?

Karas, you make too much sense.

This has more to do with socialization than to something inate to chronological age. "Juviniles" have less self control because we expect them to have less self control. As I mentioned before, the adolecence isn't a biological state, it is a social invention perpertrated by the economic prosperity of first world nations. It has more to do with providing for an educated workforce than to protecting "children". Quite simply, if people are children longer then they can be forced to go to school longer, which is good for society as a whole. If adolecents were universally treated as adults in a society, then they would have the soam self control and sense of responsibility that all adults in that society have.
No, they wouldn't, because maturity is not just a state of being, it takes TIME! I could treat my 8-year old as an adult, that would not make him mature enough to handle money, a job, or sex.

How can anyone understand the full consequnces of sex until they've actually done it? By the way, the age for consent in the UK is 16, and we have a biig problem with teenage pregnancy
Imagine that ... a low age of consent, and teenage pregnancy is higher ...
I don't see the connection ...{sarcasm}

Imagine that ... a low age of consent, and teenage pregnancy is higher ...
I don't see the connection ...{sarcasm}

In the netherlands the age is like 14 and they have one of the lowest teenage preganancy rates in the world, if im correct. They just educate very well about it, and have a very open society. This adds weight to Karas point that society is responsible.

So you think it's perfectly ok to have sex with 14 year olds? Please do not become a teacher, bus driver, or anyone associating with kids in my town. They might "seduce" you and then call you a sicko. Which you ARE, if you have sex with a 14 year old, for ANY reason.
Im not saying it is okay and personally ive been in the situation were a 15 year old wanted to have sex with me, I refused. All I am saying is she knew exactly what she was doing.

I think the question YOU should be asking is where are her parents.


come to think of it I actually posted on nationstates asking for advice on what to do with said female and if I remember correctly the yays out voted the nays.

In the netherlands the age is like 14 and they have one of the lowest teenage preganancy rates in the world, if im correct. They just educate very well about it, and have a very open society. This adds weight to Karas point that society is responsible.
Source?

No, they wouldn't, because maturity is not just a state of being, it takes TIME! I could treat my 8-year old as an adult, that would not make him mature enough to handle money, a job, or sex.

Yes, but if all 8 year olds in your country were required to have jobs then you, your family friends and neighbors, the government, and the media would spend all of those 8 years grooming your child for a life of manual labor and the child would be able to handle a job. Maturity doesn't just take time, it also takes effort. Effort is often the more important part. Also, "maturity" isn't a blanket catch all. A person can be able to perform a job perfectly and with utmost perfectionalism and still not be able to handle anything else.

As for sex, most likely your 8 year old hasn't experienced puberity yet. Before that point, children just don't understand sex the same way adults do. As I said before, while the pre-pubecent may have thoughts and feelings that adults would consider sexual, they really aren't.

Well, the law, and most reputable psychologists, disagree. While children, and teenagers, certainly are "sexual" beings, they do not have the maturity to fully understand the emotional, psychological, and mental consequences of sexual activity. Therefore we have statutory rape laws, and children having sex under the age of 18, even with each other, is frowned upon. Teenagers are going to have a deep resentment for authority, regardless of what the adults do. Tough nookies.

maturity has nothing to do with age i (16) tend to be more mature then my friend jimmy (17). However scince most laws are made with the "majority" in mind then u have to respect the law. but i strongly feel that the cases should be case by case basis b/c alought we are all created equal we are not all the same mentaly and emotionaly.

So the only way sex with a 14-year old girl by a 25 year old man would be viewed as wrong by you would be if he raped her?
Pretty much. I would like to know where you draw the line, is a 15 - 26 conbination ok
16 - 27
17 - 28
?
?

or to word the question better in your opinion, what is the minimum age that a 11 year difference is okay?

sources? ok google tells me that the age of consent is effectively 12 in the netherlands.

For every 1000 women aged 15 to 19 in the Netherlands, there are four births.

There you go.

maturity has nothing to do with age i (16) tend to be more mature then my friend jimmy (17). However scince most laws are made with the "majority" in mind then u have to respect the law. but i strongly feel that the cases should be case by case basis b/c alought we are all created equal we are not all the same mentaly and emotionaly.
Maturity DOES have something to do with age. You can be 16, and more mature than your 16-year old friend, but you are not going to more mature than most responsible 25, 30, 35 year olds. Law IS on a case by case basis, as in a trial by jury, it's just the law doesn't change for every case.

ooooook...here we go....
Perisa...the question "are children sexual beings" isn't one that can really be answered, since every answer is primarily a conjecture. Some people don't exhibit signs of sexuality well into adulthood, others might years before puberty. So your question will only gain circumstantial responses. As for whether or not such practices would harm the child...That is subjective. Everyone has different moral standards and beliefs and views virginity differently. However it is widely held that pressing sexual acts upon a child who is otherwise innocent would be a form of abuse. I guess it all depends on how liberal minded or conservative you are. Personally I don't want to be seeing any nine year old hookers or teens with eighty year old men. Hell I dont want to see teens with teens, or premarital sex for that matter. But then again, that's largely do to my moral standards, my religion, and my beliefs. The truth is, looking at it from a completely unbiased perspective, there is no right or wrong answer to your question.

Bam, the man has spoken.

Pretty much. I would like to know where you draw the line, is a 15 - 26 conbination ok
16 - 27
17 - 28
?
?


dam dude even i have my limit on my liberism, i say it should be within a 2-3 maybe 4 year age range something more or less in the same decade not like a 16 year old with a 27 year old that ways too much of a diff

I'd have to say you were a little advanced by a few standards, but who's to say what's normal for your part of the world or specific genetic makeup. I know I didn't start adolescence until I was twelve and some start earlier or later.

Not really so advanced. When pregnent women have ultrasound scans male children are often seen to be masturbating in the womb.

Maturity DOES have something to do with age. You can be 16, and more mature than your 16-year old friend, but you are not going to more mature than most responsible 25, 30, 35 year olds. Law IS on a case by case basis, as in a trial by jury, it's just the law doesn't change for every case.

At seventeen I'm more mature than my 57 year old father and my 87 year old grandmother who called me a fart smeller the other day as a derogatory comment. Maturity has nothing to do with age and everything to do with state of mind.
"Think before you speak"

-Bam, the man has spoken.

The truth is, looking at it from a completely unbiased perspective, there is no right or wrong answer to your question.

Actually, the truth is that you can determine no right or wrong answer from the available evidence.

Just because you can't find it don't mean it's not there.

Bam, the man has spoken.

So he has.

Maturity DOES have something to do with age. You can be 16, and more mature than your 16-year old friend, but you are not going to more mature than most responsible 25, 30, 35 year olds. Law IS on a case by case basis, as in a trial by jury, it's just the law doesn't change for every case.

please if ur telling me that my retarted 35 year old uncle who hasn't be with a women all of his life, that still calls breast "boobies", if u think he is more mature then him then frankly i hope i never mature. and now i bid all of u a good night

The UK teenage pregnancy problem is massive, even though we try very hard to be open about sex, and young people can get hold of contraception confidentially if they are under the age of consent from places like their local family planning clinic. This is under what is called the Gillick competency that was ruled in the UK in about 1984.
I dare say that if a health worker gets a 14 year old girl in (the age of consent is 16 in the UK) who says she is having sex with a 40 year old man, they would be a little suspicious.
However, I had sex with my 19 year old boyfriend on my fifteenth birthday. We had been going out for a year, it was my first time and I wouldn't have changed it for the world. It would have broken my heart if he'd got into trouble for it.

Actually, the truth is that you can determine no right or wrong answer from the available evidence.

Just because you can't find it don't mean it's not there.



So he has.

Alright dude, guess we have a debate. Or at least, you'd like to think so.
I never talked about evidence. There is no evidence to consider. The question is subjective, dealing with morals and opinion, not fact. There is an answer, but everyone's answer is different.

"Think before you speak"

-Bam, the man has spoken

Im sorry, I just think that these stats got overlooked the first time round.

The age of consent is effectively 12 in the netherlands.

For every 1000 women aged 15 to 19 in the Netherlands, there are four births.

What are they doing that is so right?

Ok - no!!

Jesus, this kinda talk is dangerous! Do you want to be arrested?

The Age of Consent here in the UK is 16 (for heterosexual relationships) and that is perfectly fine!

Ok - no!!

Jesus, this kinda talk is dangerous! Do you want to be arrested?

The Age of Consent here in the UK is 16 (for heterosexual relationships) and that is perfectly fine!


so if u want gay anal u have to wait longer?

sources? ok google tells me that the age of consent is effectively 12 in the netherlands.

For every 1000 women aged 15 to 19 in the Netherlands, there are four births.

There you go.
Actually, it looks like it's some combination of 12/16 (age differential?). Anyway, you are correct, the rate in the United States is much higher, although I don't necessarily agree that it has to do with age of consent laws.

Maturity DOES have something to do with age. You can be 16, and more mature than your 16-year old friend, but you are not going to more mature than most responsible 25, 30, 35 year olds. Law IS on a case by case basis, as in a trial by jury, it's just the law doesn't change for every case.

Maturity has nothing to do with age and everything to do with experience. It is true that age and experience are peripheral to one another, but one doesn't necessate the other. It is also true that there are many areas of maturity which must be worked at seperatly. A person who is mature in one area might be immature in others. Age is a good indicator because society dictates that those of a certain age must be mature and those below that age must be immature. For the most part, people conform to this even if they don't want to or try not to.

Well, the law, and most reputable psychologists, disagree. While children, and teenagers, certainly are "sexual" beings, they do not have the maturity to fully understand the emotional, psychological, and mental consequences of sexual activity.

What exactly are the emotional, psychological and mental consequences of sexual activity? I'm 20 and I've had a good sexual education (from both school and my partners ;)) and I don't believe I know what these consequences are. Unless you mean the consequences of living in a society that (quite absurdly) glorifies virginity and criminalises extra-marital sex.

please if ur telling me that my retarted 35 year old uncle who hasn't be with a women all of his life, that still calls breast "boobies", if u think he is more mature then him then frankly i hope i never mature. and now i bid all of u a good night
Notice I used the words "most" and "responsible", neither of which apply to your uncle. He is the exception, not the rule.

What exactly are the emotional, psychological and mental consequences of sexual activity? I'm 20 and I've had a good sexual education (from both school and my partners ;)) and I don't believe I know what these consequences are. Unless you mean the consequences of living in a society that (quite absurdly) glorifies virginity and criminalises extra-marital sex.
In your most humble opinion, of course. :D

*blows the smoke from his fingertips*
Alright guys, done with this thread. Neeeeext!

"Think before you speak"

-Bam, the man has spoken

I'd like to quote from the NSPCC Child Maltreatment in the United Kingdom: a Study of the Prevalence of Abuse and Neglect, November 2003

Results showed a conservative approach to sexual freedom for young people under 16. The results show that young people of this age range are in general accepting of the current law on the ages of consent for heterosexuals, though there is considerable sympathy for lowering the age for homosexual couples to 16. A sizeable minority would like to see the heterosexual age of consent raised and there is almost no support for the age of consent to be lowered below 16 in any circumstances. While few
wanted to prohibit sexual relations between young people and professionals with responsibility for them, large minorities felt that the age of consent for these relationships should be higher than for other couples.

When asked about sexual relations between young people under 16 and adults over 18. nine out of ten thought that no sexual activity was acceptable for children under 12 with over 18s. Responses were more mixed concerning those aged 13 - 15, but more than four out of ten thought that nothing was acceptable and most of the remainder considered only kissing and cuddling acceptable. Only 2% considered that intercourse or oral sex were acceptable between 13 -15 year olds and adults.

she said she consented, she knew what she was doing I dont see how she can call him a sicko.

Was he aware of her age? We know that girls aof 13/14 and older are capable of dressing and acting in such a way as to appear to be older than 18. The UK considered bringing in a leagle defence to USI (unlawful sexual intercousre, statutory rape in th US) that the adult was unaware of the age of the girl dure to apperance and actions!

Was he aware of her age? We know that girls aof 13/14 and older are capable of dressing and acting in such a way as to appear to be older than 18. The UK considered bringing in a leagle defence to USI (unlawful sexual intercousre, statutory rape in th US) that the adult was unaware of the age of the girl dure to apperance and actions!
In this case, as I read it, the man most certainly did know her age, or at least had a very strong suspicion, and knew exactly what he was doing.

In this case, as I read it, the man most certainly did know her age, or at least had a very strong suspicion, and knew exactly what he was doing.

If so he was wrong to do it, but would he have been wrong if he was in the Netherlands?? :confused:

Was he aware of her age? We know that girls aof 13/14 and older are capable of dressing and acting in such a way as to appear to be older than 18. The UK considered bringing in a leagle defence to USI (unlawful sexual intercousre, statutory rape in th US) that the adult was unaware of the age of the girl dure to apperance and actions!
In this case it appears he did but we only have her word in the matter.

Also in Australia a man once got convicted of rape for having consentual sex with an underage girl, whom he met at a night club. Personally I think the man shouldve been released and the girl should have been detained for being underage in a nightclub.

In your most humble opinion, of course. :D

Of course! :p

My point still stands though. What are the consequences of sex? Other than the obvious biological, I imagine everybody will have a different answer.

EDIT: The general impression I get from posts is that adults know something that children don't about the emotional and psychological consequences of having sex because they're not mature enough or they don't understand.

What is there to understand?

In this case, as I read it, the man most certainly did know her age, or at least had a very strong suspicion, and knew exactly what he was doing.
and so did she, so what is wrong with it?

I think the age of consent for gay sex in the UK is the same as for heterosexual sex, but look it up before you do it, anyone. I'm sure they changed the law here or at least tried to, to get the gay age of consent from 18 to 16.
As for the appearnce thing, sometimes young girls do dress like hookers, but that's part of growing up, and you can generally tell by fat distribution how old they are. ish. It's a better guideline than what they wear. I have won a few bets with that theory, guessing how old young girls are whilst out with my girlfriends.
The thing that really bothers me is seeing five/six/seven year olds walking down the street in high heels and full make-up, short skirts the lot. I find it really creepy, especially when their mothers look so proud about it.
As for the Netherlands, they have the best sex education programme in the world, apparently, and high abstinence rates for young people, so that even though the age of consent is so low, it's not really tested.

and just so everyone knows, i'm a girl because this looked dodgy when i posted it the first time.

Abouse statutory rape laws in the US, most are poorly worded. Generally, there are amny cases of well meaning people having their lives ruined because of badly worded statuory rape laws.

In most states, statutory rape doesn't require intent. This means that no one can use "it just happened" as an excuse. Diminished capacity, insanity, extreme emotional disturbance, ect aren't excuses for statutoy rape in most states.
Unfortunatly, not knowing that the person was a minor isn't an excuse either. If a 14 year old girl gets an adult's social security card and birth certificate ( both are very easy to get) she can go to the DMV or state patrol office, depending on the state, and get a real ID that states that she is an adult. Say she then uses that ID to get into a bar, I talk to her, I see the ID so I know she's an adult, one thing leads to another... in most states I am a rapist.

To take this to the msot extreme, in some states a woman cannot legaly rape a man. So, lets say this same 14 year old girl holds me a gunpoint and ties me to a bed. She then shoots me full of morphine and viagra and rides me all night. In some states, I am still technicaly a rapist and she is not. She's guilty of a host of other crimes, but not rape. I, on the other hand, am guilty of statutory rape. The fact that I didn't concent doesn't matter since the law only requires the act, it doesn't require intent.

I think public votes were in favour of lowering the age of consent to 16, but then the house of lords simply said no.

EDIT: I think I'm wrong...

EDIT 2: Age of consent is apparently 16, but it was the house of lords that decided that local authorities aren't allowed to "intentionally promote homosexuality"

I'm thinking that you should be kept away from children.

+1

Selgin I would also like your opinion on Anna nicole Smiths relationship with that dead billionare guy.

I had sex with my teacher when I was 14 but hey man she was hott.

I was reading an article about the Kinsey report and I got to thinking...

Are Children sexual beings? Now, let me irriterate before you hit the reply button and start typing "no no No No NO NO NO [b]NO"

I'm thinking child abuse by adults is something that should be judged on a case by case basis, because the ability to give consent to sexual activity isn't sharded commonly among an entire age group. If it's consentual, then there's really no harm being done to the child. If a child has sex with an adult and it's entirely consentual, the trauma is usually inflicted by his/her parents who show their shock and disgust, and that's where the child becomes afraid and hurt.

I'm thinking that child sexual abuse should be judged on a case by basis.


uhhh... but she looked waaay older than 8.

Alright dude, guess we have a debate. Or at least, you'd like to think so.
I never talked about evidence. There is no evidence to consider. The question is subjective, dealing with morals and opinion, not fact. There is an answer, but everyone's answer is different.

"Think before you speak"

-Bam, the man has spoken

Now you're telling me what I'd like to think. Impressive.

The original question asked about an objective reality, specifically whether children have the property of being "sexual". This requires the application of no opinions or morals to resolve, only evidence.

The secondary question that you addressed was one of whether a child would be "harmed" by a sexual encounter. This question is a philosophical one that is a bit more difficult to answer, because "harm" remains undefined, and not everyone will agree on a definition of "harm". If you were to get everyone to agree to a definition of harm, it would only require evidence to resolve the question of whether harm had occurred or would occur in whatever scenarios were discussed.

The only way you can make either of those into questions of morals or opinion is to change their nature such that you are asking entirely different questions about how humans should regulate their behavior in relation to such issues.

Perhaps you think that there is no objective truth and that everything is a question of opinion or morals. In that case, you contradict yourself by asserting that it is an objective truth that there is no objective truth.

i duno i may be 'old fasioned' (im only 18) but i personaly dont think people should be haveing sex befor marraige the reson for this is there would be a lot less (no) teen pregnancy basterd children etc... moste married couples that have children are settled and have reached a popint in their lives that they think they are ready to raise a child (some people should be fixed at birth) and i also believe that there should be a test to get a marraige lisence you have to take a test befor you can drive or hunt and well getting married can cause a lot more problems then driveing or hunting. and adults (20+) haveing sex with any one under 17 or 18 is compleatly wrong moste people aroud that age can make informed decisions about what they want to do and who the want to do it with. and if i had it my way i would round up the pedifiles/rapeists and other sex offenders and put them in the general populace ofa prison and let the other inmates deal with them screw this criminal protection crap if your in jail you have obviously done somthing to violate someone elses safty so why should you have any (srry bout the rant back to topic) im just goin off canadian law but to beable to give consent you have to be with in 2 years if you are 15 or under if you are 16 it is statatory rape to have sex with any one under 15 and if you are older than 18 it is stat rape to have sex with any one under 18 so baseicly if your 18 you can go screw some 80 year old if ya really want. if the govet and suposedly 'informed' people thought a 13 year old was capeable of understanding and comprehending the consiquences of having sex with a 16 year old then it would be legal but the 'all knowing' govit said no thats bad so i dont give a damn who you are if ya have sex with a minor you should die a horible painful death and if ya havent noticed I HATE sex offenders they are the lowest of low and should have NO rights and freedoms and it should be legal to do what ever you want to them (break in to their house stab them shoot them kill them etc... they deprived some poor person of therier human rights and made them suffer so they should have to suffer aswell) call me extream fanatical twisted or what ever you want cause it is probably true lol (once again i am srry about my rant and any thing that is off topic :cool: :p )

Crikey. Are you ok?

In this case it appears he did but we only have her word in the matter.

Also in Australia a man once got convicted of rape for having consentual sex with an underage girl, whom he met at a night club. Personally I think the man shouldve been released and the girl should have been detained for being underage in a nightclub.

In Australia a man severed his arm whilst breaking into someones property and successfully sued the owner for compensation. A woman also successfully sued a company for unfair dismissal after she was caught -on tape - stealing company property. Remember Pauline Hanson? They imprisoned her for... *raises eyebrows*. Hmmm... I think there could be a slight problem with our legal system.

i think 10 is a good age of consent.

Is a child a sexual being? One must define "child" and "sexual being" to answer this question. If "child" is defined as any person younger than 18 or 21 years old, and if "sexual being" is defined as a person who can and does have sex, then the answer is: Some "children" are "sexual beings."

If a person asked me if I thought people should be having sex before they are married, I would say "No," although I had sex with plenty of girls before I was married and the first time was when I was only 13 or 14.

If a person asked me if the government should prosecute individuals suspected for violating laws related to sex, I would say "Yes."

At what age do I believe the law should allow a human to decide whether they can participate in sex? My choice here is still 18. Some people are able to think and reason well before that age, but I have seen enough of the population who have foggy thoughts even after attaining the age of majority.

Given that sexual acts can produce children and spread disease (some that is incurable and fatal), this activity is important to more than just the two people who are participating. Hence, we see why government becomes involved.

For some number of years before children reach adulthood, parents, teachers and members of the clergy should explain the reasons for them to take great care before they become sexually active.

come to think of it, make that 9.

=and if i had it my way i would round up the pedifiles/rapeists and other sex offenders and put them in the general populace ofa prison and let the other inmates deal with them screw this criminal protection crap if your in jail you have obviously done somthing to violate someone elses safty so why should you have any



75% of prisoners in the United States are non-violent offenders.

Perisa

Not really. If an adult has sex with anyone younger than 18, it's rape.

There is no flexibility on this.

haven't read anything other than the first page of this thread, but just to point out something to this guy.... in most countries I know, the age of consent is 16, not 18. america seems to be the odd one out with ages of legality.

Consent! People can't be trusted with this resposibilty. All requests for sexual intercourse should be forwarded to the appropriate government agency forthwith.

In Australia a man severed his arm whilst breaking into someones property and successfully sued the owner for compensation. A woman also successfully sued a company for unfair dismissal after she was caught -on tape - stealing company property. Remember Pauline Hanson? They imprisoned her for... *raises eyebrows*. Hmmm... I think there could be a slight problem with our legal system.
yeah there is a few kinks in it

come to think of it, make that 9.
any particular reason you picked 9 or 10? why not 8 or 11?

yeah there is a few kinks in it

A few kinks indeed...

I think 16 should be fine for consent.

What an odd question.

"Are children sexual beings"....

That depends on the context of course.

People dont like to admit it, but childen do have sexual fantasies, same as anyone else.
The difference is that they have far less of an actual grasp on what those fantasies really mean.
Its normal for many children to start masturbating around age 8, or even earlier.
Children play "Doctor" with each other all the time.

So the answer can only be "yes".
But this doesnt mean that children are ready for the emotional trials that sex can bring.

Ive read one study that said that many males first sexual encounters are often with a member of their peer group, at an early age.
Its very often "play" and has little to no bearing on that childs sexual orientations an adult.
Pretty harmless it seems.

The problems arise when adults see children as sexual objects.
This is a predatory thing, and involves harm a-plenty.

Im sure that there children out there who are emotionaly developed enough to engage in a healthy sexual relationship with a partner of thier choosing, but, really...it certainly has got to be a small number.
In the end its just better if they dont have to worry about that kind of thing, and are allowed to just be kids.

first of all it makes you suspect to even inquire. why do you want to know? have you asked yourself that question? some might think you're trying to find justification for something

Im sorry, I just think that these stats got overlooked the first time round.

The age of consent is effectively 12 in the netherlands.

For every 1000 women aged 15 to 19 in the Netherlands, there are four births.

What are they doing that is so right?
The age of consent is 16 years. Sex between people from 12 to 16 years is permitted if the younger person consents. Get it straight.

Children are sexual beings who have the beginings of sexuality (otherwise there would be no point in forcing sex-negative attitudes on them as they wouldn't have any relavance to them), however, this doesn't necessarily open the gate for pædophilia. They can engage in sexual activity with other children if they do indeed want to (I can hear the conservatives shuddering from hear at this suggestion).

They can engage in sexual activity with other children if they do indeed want to.

You're gonna give me nightmares, man! :eek:

There is very little doubt that children are sexual beings. I dont believe Ive ever heard of a single professional claim otherwise. The only people who claim they arent are people who know nothing about the subject.

Whether sex with children should be legal is really a cultural question. The official age of consent varies from 12 to 18 depending on the country, although certain societies (natives of new guinea for example) do not abide by the laws and are allowed leeway by the authorities due to their unique culture. That really has nothing to do with logic, its a cultural question and cultural questions have never been based on logic. Therefore, its not really fair to debate that issue.

There is very little doubt that children are sexual beings. I dont believe Ive ever heard of a single professional claim otherwise. The only people who claim they arent are people who know nothing about the subject.

Whether sex with children should be legal is really a cultural question. The official age of consent varies from 12 to 18 depending on the country, although certain societies (natives of new guinea for example) do not abide by the laws and are allowed leeway by the authorities due to their unique culture. That really has nothing to do with logic, its a cultural question and cultural questions have never been based on logic. Therefore, its not really fair to debate that issue.

An entire culture of pædophiles? I've heard weird claims about Japan, but that is hard to believe.

An entire culture of pædophiles? I've heard weird claims about Japan, but that is hard to believe.

To them it has nothing to do with pedophilia, its a religious practice and part of their traditions. I dont think in depth discussion of these practices is appropriate to this forum, but you can look up information on the sambia tribe of New Guinea to find out more about this practice. They arent the only ones with such practices, but they are the most well known.

To them it has nothing to do with pedophilia, its a religious practice and part of their traditions. I dont think in depth discussion of these practices is appropriate to this forum, but you can look up information on the sambia tribe of New Guinea to find out more about this practice. They arent the only ones with such practices, but they are the most well known.

Its things like this that force me to question my resistance to government and imperialism. Is it better to allow innocent girls to be raped in order to limit the power of the West and preserve non-Western culture or is it better to support Western imperialism to help the innocent? It's a very difficult question. As an anarchist, I cannot support government, yet I cannot condone rape, either.

Its things like this that force me to question my resistance to government and imperialism. Is it better to allow innocent girls to be raped in order to limit the power of the West and preserve non-Western culture or is it better to support Western imperialism to help the innocent? It's a very difficult question. As an anarchist, I cannot support government, yet I cannot condone rape, either.

You didnt look up the information did you? Otherwise you would not be talking about rape, or little girls. Since it is a practice involving boys and there is no rape involved.

You didnt look up the information did you? Otherwise you would not be talking about rape, or little girls. Since it is a practice involving boys and there is no rape involved.
Letila prefers to jump to conclusions. :D

umm i think the bottome line is that anyone who has the thought to have sex with someone younger than 18 years old, and they themselves are over that age, it should be considered rape, consensual or not because it si a law, if they daont have enuf self control to hold it off for a few years, than theys houldnt think that theyre mature to have sexanyways, however being a virgin maybe im way off base

You didnt look up the information did you? Otherwise you would not be talking about rape, or little girls. Since it is a practice involving boys and there is no rape involved.

I see. I'm amazed that the West has somehow resisted the urge to intervene.

What an odd question.

"Are children sexual beings"....

That depends on the context of course.

People dont like to admit it, but childen do have sexual fantasies, same as anyone else.
The difference is that they have far less of an actual grasp on what those fantasies really mean.
Its normal for many children to start masturbating around age 8, or even earlier.
Children play "Doctor" with each other all the time.

So the answer can only be "yes".
But this doesnt mean that children are ready for the emotional trials that sex can bring.

Ive read one study that said that many males first sexual encounters are often with a member of their peer group, at an early age.
Its very often "play" and has little to no bearing on that childs sexual orientations an adult.
Pretty harmless it seems.

The problems arise when adults see children as sexual objects.
This is a predatory thing, and involves harm a-plenty.

Im sure that there children out there who are emotionaly developed enough to engage in a healthy sexual relationship with a partner of thier choosing, but, really...it certainly has got to be a small number.
In the end its just better if they dont have to worry about that kind of thing, and are allowed to just be kids.


i agree with u 95% but i don't think sex is emotional its physical. why can guys have sex with strangers b/c its just physical. When there is love involved then there is emotion but if not its just physical. To be frank i wouldn't want to have sex with someone i love just b/c there is too much emotion and it makes it weird some would say its better but that there opinion. When i need some release i go to jenny from the block not my friend julia (there is interest there but we're friends so we don't let it lead no where). so yea sex is physical (mostly, there is some lust included) like peeing where the emotion in that? emotion just make it harder to preform, . so for consent there is a level of maturity which u could call an emotion but it could be a state of mind, for sex all u need is the consent

Children are sexual beings who have the beginings of sexuality (otherwise there would be no point in forcing sex-negative attitudes on them as they wouldn't have any relavance to them), however, this doesn't necessarily open the gate for pædophilia. They can engage in sexual activity with other children if they do indeed want to (I can hear the conservatives shuddering from hear at this suggestion).


I don't know about that, I myself though mentally curios at that age was fundamentally asexual. Asexuality is a normal and healthy part of childhood, it helps in preparing children to deal with others in a social setting in a purely nonsexual way.

It's just a short time we all have from the cradle to the onset of adolescence when sex becomes a major preoccupation. Society should never encourage any activity on children that is essentially unnatural to their nature. Children are not mini adults, they're children.

It's just a short time we all have from the cradle to the onset of adolescence when sex becomes a major preoccupation. Society should never encourage any activity on children that is essentially unnatural to their nature. Children are not mini adults, they're children.

Agreed

On a purely biological (not moral or legal) level, animals are ready to mate as soon as they are biologically able to reproduce...obviously, you can't really use that as a yardstick with humans, although some cultures do.

The ancient Greeks considered homosexuality a natural stage in a youths life that they would grow out of, thus children played with eack other untill they matured and married.

While I think it's true that consentual activity should be legal among any two people/animals/whatever, my concern is that children might not be informed enough or mature enough to make a desicion on their own. So I get what your saying, and I agree in principal, but in reality I'm taking a middle ground.

I think a good age of consent system is this

Under the age of 18, an age difference of more then 3 years is illegal. Anything under 13 is illegal.

Children are sexual beings, yes, but should they have sex, especially with anyone more mature than themselves? No. That's abuse.

It depends on the child. I had an experience when I was 8, and it didn't bother me any.

Not really. If an adult has sex with anyone younger than 18, it's rape.

There is no flexibility on this.

Within limits. Say you are sexually avtive with your GF/BF and turn 18 a year before him/her. It should be more of a "within x many years of each other" thing. Like a 17 year old having sex with a 13 year old should be rape as well. (and is in some places).

i dunno maybe the problem isn't with the act of sex itself it might be that we should educate a little better some by the time they do reach there mid teens and the presure for sex is on, then they have enough knowledge to consent. Two 15 year olds have sex is rape in both cases, but there both the same age, they both consent, where's the problem there (i know there's one but i just can't see it)

well by children do mean people between puberty and 18?well yes.before puberty no.upon haveing the ability procreate,sex is the second most importent goal to a persons body,the mind may be diffrent,but sex is a strong urge even for someone who denys the truth.

personally,i feel the waiting we make everyone have is the primary cause for the U.S. violent crimerate,which is the highest amoung first world countrys.YEAAAHH.not.

Freud was a ho!

cackles maniacally

Maturity is such a complicated thing. I have been told many times that I am far more mature than the average grown adult, but according to the legal system I am still a child. I, at 17, can carry on complex discussions about politics, world affairs, or culture (theatre, opera, etc) but am still slightly intimidated by the simple act of paying for lunch in a restaurant. I still go shopping with my mom because I have a very hard time matching outfits and telling what "looks right."

The government says that I can drive, but I have chosen not to because I know that I, personally, would be a threat to other drivers. I can also get a job, drop out of school, and join the military. I can take college-level classes, or even enroll entirely in college. Interestingly, when I was 15 I wanted to an intro to psychology class at the local community college over the summer. The class started about 3 weeks before my birthday. Due to the fact that I was less than a month short of 16, I had to go through about three times the paperwork and conduct an interview with the dean of admissions to ensure that I could handle myself in a college level class. This was despite the fact that it was a telecourse and I would never even come in contact with any other students or the "teacher."

However, in the state where I live, were my boyfriend and I to have sex when I turn 18, I would be a criminal. He is less than a year younger than me, but this slight age difference has proven to be quite an issue. My mother was very concerned when we first started dating because "younger boys can be immature", my friends all asked why I was dating someone younger, I was even called a cradle-robber. We were even kicked out of an R-rated movie because he's 16, despite the fact that his mother bought the tickets for us and was actually going to come back into the theatre to watch the movie with us - she just had to leave for a little while. (I know, some date. But she's a really nice lady and I wouldn't have minded it a bit.) Why is it that a 17 year old is capable of hearing the f-word, seeing partial nudity, and violence, but not a 16 year old? If someone can drive themselves to the movies, they should be capable of picking the movie out for themselves too.

How can the state decide whether or not this hypothetical act in a longterm relationship constituted "rape", or whether or not my partner was coerced or consented? My friend's mother is actually quite worried about this: when my friend started dating a boy two years younger than her, the mother didn't want them to date for fear that if they broke up and he was upset, he could call the police and accuse her of statutory rape. The discrepancy in consent laws between states is aggravating, as is the seemingly pointless distinctions between ages.

The ancient Greeks considered homosexuality a natural stage in a youths life that they would grow out of, thus children played with eack other untill they matured and married.

That depended on the city state in question and the time periode. The gaysest of them was Sparta.

Given that sexual acts can produce children and spread disease (some that is incurable and fatal)

You mean like children.

J/K

18 is the age set since it would be impossible to constrain people after that. I'd say most kids don't get mature until they're in their mid-twenties, but 18 is the best you'll get.

I agree with/seem to be in a semi-similar situation as Sur Gratis. It can be a rather complicated issure. However, when someone mentions "children" I usually think of people under the age of thirteen (younger than teenagers).

In any case, the answer to the initial question is a very strong NO from me. Children aren't sexual beings because they haven't got all the hormones going and hence are generally completely unaware of the entire "sexual phenomenon". That seems to grip people from 13-14 onwards.

I think most of the laws as they stand are generally the best for the protection of a childs welfare, though there are some areas where they could be improved/altered a little, as Sur Gratis pointed out

The simple answer to the question at hand is that one becomes a sexual being upon gaining the ability to reproduce. That is the bottom line. Nature has answered the question for us, however, morals (rightly or wrongly) come into play - separating us from the animals that inhabit this world with us.

My biggest concern is that we are beginning to identify sexual perference (homosexuality) as minority group, treating this aspect "humanosity" almost as a seperate race. As we start down this slippery slope of identifying and granting rights to someone based upon sexual activity, how can we fairly defend the rights of one group while not recognizing those that want to have sex with sheep or children.... danerous ground we are treading on! :(

Are Children sexual beings?

Yes they are, but they are sexually immature beings. If they are to engage in sexual behaviour at all, it is best that they engage in aspects of self-pleasure rather than to experiment with partners.

If they've progressed beyond self-pleasure, or if they are precocious, then perhaps they're ready for consensual pleasure - but it is completely unacceptable for an adult to offer theirself as a sexual partner. Developing sexual beings, such as adolescents, should only be permitted to consent to pleasure with similarly-aged partners.

That ought to hold 'em 'til they're of the age of consent.


DT.

but it is completely unacceptable for an adult to offer theirself as a sexual partner.

DT.

I dont necessarily disagree with you. but it would be nice if you offered a reason as to why you feel that way. So, why is it unacceptable?

I dont necessarily disagree with you. but it would be nice if you offered a reason as to why you feel that way. So, why is it unacceptable?

It is unacceptable because it contravenes existing law. Laws can change, of course...but as of right now, there's no legally-sanctioned manner in which a fifty-four year old can have it off with a fourteen year old.

Two fourteen year olds, however, should have no trouble getting it on with each other, or themselves.

Do I need to elaborate any further, or can I collect my $200 and pass GO already?

It is unacceptable because it contravenes existing law. Laws can change, of course...but as of right now, there's no legally-sanctioned manner in which a fifty-four year old can have it off with a fourteen year old.

Two fourteen year olds, however, should have no trouble getting it on with each other, or themselves.

Do I need to elaborate any further, or can I collect my $200 and pass GO already?

OK. here you go

*hands Dobbs Town $200 in monopoly money*

:)

Well i live in england and the concenting age is 16. the USA is 18....its more a matter of opinion on the concenting age more than anything else

All I have to say is that guy is coming from a region which has the word Penis in it's title... sooo uhh... watch out..

EDIT: In each state it depends, here in Massachusetts it's 16.

Well i live in england and the concenting age is 16. the USA is 18....its more a matter of opinion on the concenting age more than anything else

Actually, the age of consent varies in the USA from state to state. In most states it is 18, but some are 16. Washington is (or was, when I lived there at 18) 16 for females and 18 for males. Several states have an "age range" statute, where if one person is over the legal age, they can still have consensual sex with a person underage, but close to them in age, allowing the 18 year old boyfriend to not go to jail for sleeping with his 16 year old girlfriend, for example.

Then you have the whole issue of crossing state lines and such. For example, let's say I actually found the young girl next door (who has a puppy love crush on me that is disturbing) sexually attractive (for the record, I don't, I'm happy with the lady I've got now.) It would be illegal for me to sleep with her, since she's 16 and I'm just shy of 40; it would be a crime here if I were just 18, even. Yet, if she and I were in the next state over, it would be legal. If I were to take her over there in my car for some action, it would be transporting a minor accross state lines for an immoral purpose (a federal crime.) However, if she drove herself and met me at a hotel, it would be legal. If, however, federal authorities thought I brought the idea up to her and suggested we meet, it would still be a crime. Also, it is a crime even if you don't know the person is underage. So yes, a girl could show a fake ID that says she's 21 to get into a bar; and if she's underage and gets picked up on in the bar, the guy (who thinks she must be of age if she's in a bar) could go to jail for sleeping with her.

Fortunately for me, I've got what I want right at home and don't have to worry about looking for anyone else.

18 is the age set since it would be impossible to constrain people after that. I'd say most kids don't get mature until they're in their mid-twenties, but 18 is the best you'll get.
Arbitrary age set by the Normans...

mmm... im inclined to go with no on this one however

it depends on the age difference of the adult and 'child' or would 17 be considered a teenager? however 19-17 i wouldn't have a problem with, however if your talking like 21-10 no, a child can't make a judgement like that.

I became sexually active at 13, along with my 13 yr old boyfriend.. we were both virgins, and it was consentual on both our parts.

When I look back now (I'm 30) I don't really see myself as even being a 'kid' then. But I consider the 13 yr olds I see now (even 15 ..16 etc.) as kids and way to young to be even thinking about having sex. And no way in hell an adult should be having consentual or any other kind of sex with someone so young. When I was in highschool a 16 yr old girl was having an affair with a 30 some yr old teacher. I don't consider that instance as pedifilia(sp?), but I don't think it was right.

I'd be willing to bet that when he looks back on it now, he feels like an old perv. If my first time had been with an "older man" I think I would definatly consider him a pervert looking back now.

Oh! so my answer is.. they may well be sexual .. but leave them the hell alone!