NationStates Jolt Archive

Thats right. Our beloved country of America is running a genocide program similar to Hitlers. Its victims? Innocent children. Every day countless innocent babies without a single sin are being massacred by SS doctors and criminal whores who order them to do it. This is cleverly disguised as a "choice." Yeah, it is a "choice." A choice to murder. I can't see how anyone would want to allow this "choice." Abortion is the worst thing to happen to this country. I think that if there is an 100% chance the mother will die if she has the baby an abortion is acceptable, but anything else is barbaric murder that should be made illegal. Including rape and incest. A child should not have to be killed for the wrongs of the mother or father. Abortion has claimed over 30 million children. These stupid whores who can't control themselves decide to act immoraly and then when they get pregnant decide to have their baby butchered. Its pure evil. And what has the government done about this? Not much until a good man like Bush got into office. President Bush has honorably tried to stop this, and has taken the first step toward ending this holocaust by banning partial-birth abortion, the evil procedure where the doctor yanks that baby halfway from the womb and then slams an icepick-like device into its spine, murdering the poor baby. Now we have to take the next step though, and ban all forms of abortion. I will not tolerate seeing millions of children die so some whore can get her way. Abortion is murder, plain and simple, and should be banned.

Ooh, biting sarcasm!

EDIT: Hang on, I read it more carefully and I think this may just be a lunatic rant on abortion...

What? I don't get it.

yep, just another lunatic rant on abortion

What? I don't get it.

I didn't read it very carefully. Got to the bit about SS doctors, skipped a bit to the comment about the ice pick device, thought you were taking the piss out of people who think Bush is evil.

By the way, could you provide some sort of credible evidence? I've NEVER heard of partial birth abortion. I've seen detailed presentations by pro life campaigners about the subject and I've never heard of it. I'm assuming it's bullshit.

yep, just another lunatic rant on abortion
But a funny one. A good man like Bush...pffrrrrwhahahaha...... :D

I will not tolerate seeing millions of children die so some whore can get her way.

See, now here's the thing. I couldn't possibly care less about what you think. If I want to get an abortion, then I'm going to, and I don't give a flying shit what you think, or what you're willing to "tolerate". Hate abortions? Think they're vile? Fine, don't get one. I'm not making you. But respect that I'm a grown person, fully capable of making my own decisions.

Would you prefer it if the doctor just killed the mother?

you probably never hear about partial birth abortion cuz the only ppl who would get it have good reasons, like the mother's health or something. i would think most people decide way before the third trimester or whatever that they want an abortion, so they don't get a partial birth kind, they get the pill kind or whatever.

By the way, Commando2. That was a brilliant piece of social commentary, especially considering that America has about 11000 murders a year (yes, I know I got that statistic from Michael Moore, but it's probably more accurate than what this guy's saying). Who gives a crap about adults dieing, eh?

I think anyone dying is horrible. Thats why I'm pro-life on numerous issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and embyronic stem cell research.

Hmm...

Measured, deliberate, mass murder of a race forced on a country by a party and the choice of women, reagrdless of race, to abort a reliant entity which could ruin their life or kill them...

Yeah, I see they're the same.

I think anyone dying is horrible. Thats why I'm pro-life on numerous issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and embyronic stem cell research.

I apologise, I made assumptions about your political views.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think of abortions to save the mother's life?

Like I said in the paragraph, I think to save a mothers life it is ok. But anything else, and I mean anything, is pure evil.

Bush is not as 'pro-life' as people think. He has no qualms with abortion in some instances- such as rape and incest.

Which is where I disagree with him. I think in rape and incest an abortion should still not be allowed.

what's wrong with people dying? i'm serious. see if you can answer this one...since you've apparently got society down pat...

Which is where I disagree with him. I think in rape and incest an abortion should still not be allowed.

Agreed.

I think anyone dying is horrible. Thats why I'm pro-life on numerous issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and embyronic stem cell research.

I assume you are also a pacifist and against capital punishment.

Whats wrong with people dying? Well it goes against my lord Jesus Christs message. As for those who do not share my faith, most everyone can agree that everyone deserves a chance at life. Of course, for serial killers, child molesters, and terrorists, I think we have the right to execute them.

Whats wrong with people dying? Well it goes against my lord Jesus Christs message. As for those who do not share my faith, most everyone can agree that everyone deserves a chance at life. Of course, for serial killers, child molesters, and terrorists, I think we have the right to execute them.

so does people believing something make it right?

Is abortion the down fall of the Social Security system? In last few decades over 30 million potential employees were eliminated. Could they of filled the large gap created by the baby boomers in the system? Something to think about or discuss.
Personally, I believe abortion is kind of dumb. Just because Jack was to lazy to wrap his meat and Jill said oh well and spread her legs. A condom is a lot cheaper then an abortion operation. Although Commando2 maybe sounding a little too rash and over the top with his statement I think we can all agree that abortions are not necessary all the time.

Whats wrong with people dying? Well it goes against my lord Jesus Christs message. As for those who do not share my faith, most everyone can agree that everyone deserves a chance at life. Of course, for serial killers, child molesters, and terrorists, I think we have the right to execute them.

Obviously you didn't pay very good attention to your lord Jesus Christ's message.

Sex before marriage is immoral and disgusting. If everyone just behaved properly and waited until they were married this world would be a whole lot better.

Personally, I believe abortion is kind of dumb. Just because Jack was to lazy to wrap his meat and Jill said oh well and spread her legs. A condom is a lot cheaper then an abortion operation. Although Commando2 maybe sounding a little too rash and over the top with his statement I think we can all agree that abortions are not necessary all the time.

But condoms are being discouraged. Many schools now teach abstinence programs. There's nothing wrong with abstinence, but it's wrong to tell kids that condoms don't work, just to give them a little extra push to abstain.

I think that abortions should be allowed in the case of rapes and incest, though. Why should a woman be forced to have a baby just because some guy decided to rape her?

Why should a woman be forced to have a baby just because some guy decided to rape her?

Why should a baby be killed for the crimes of its father?

Sig Heil baby!

Meh, don't see the value of forcing a birth of a child with a disease that will end it's life fast. Of course the family is wiped out by the expensive resources trying to keep the kid alive.

My in-laws had that happen. A child was born with an extreamly virilent version of Cystic Fibrosis(as a doc told them after child died, her internal organs looked like she lived with the disease for many years). She lived 2 weeks all of it in the hospitol under machines and drugged the whole time. My mother-in-law once told me she thinks the child never recognised her.

But hey she wasn't "murdered" and it left her family on hard times for many years(dad was a bluecoller).

Sex education is wrong. Abstinence only education is the way to go. All sex education does is promote immoral behavior.

Sex before marriage is immoral and disgusting. If everyone just behaved properly and waited until they were married this world would be a whole lot better.
And whose definition of "properly" would we use? What about people who ascribe to (just for example's sake) beliefs related to those of the cult of Dionysus (I'm sure my spelling is off) of Ancient Greece and Rome? They think it's "proper" to have crazy orgies frequently? Should we use their definition of proper behaviour?

There's nothing wrong with sex before marriage, provided both partners are consenting adults (and not related). Really. As long as its safe sex, there's no harm done to anyone. At all. It doesn't hurt me. It certainly doesn't hurt the people involved. And, believe it or not, it doesn't affect you at all, Commando.

So, to all you horny unmarrieds...
:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

I will not tolerate seeing millions of children die so some whore can get her way.

Wow. A woman get have a millions of children?

Sex education is wrong. Abstinence only education is the way to go. All sex education does is promote immoral behavior.

I believe abortion, along with sex education (and education in general) should be left entirely to the states and local governments.

im with Commando all the way

Bush is not as 'pro-life' as people think. He has no qualms with abortion in some instances- such as rape and incest.

In fact didn't he have a girlfriend that had one once?

Sex before marriage is immoral and disgusting. If everyone just behaved properly and waited until they were married this world would be a whole lot better.

Right. It works so well in places like Afghanistan, doesn't it? I think that's a great idea, Commando2. In fact, lets just bring all the things the Afghanis had going for them, and then we'll put a Christian slant on it. In the meantime, I'll be in Canada watching the U.S. dissolve into civil strife.

In fact didn't he have a girlfriend that had one once?

I have no idea. Not being a Bush fan, I wouldn't know.

Sex before marriage should be on every schools curriculum. As should sex orgies between the teachers and the student body. All those who refuse to participate should be thrown in jail.

Sex education is wrong. Abstinence only education is the way to go. All sex education does is promote immoral behavior.

No, people will still have sex. Sex Ed just informs people to take precautions so they don't catch STDs. i never remeber being told to go and be "immoral" or have sex before marriage in Sex Ed - it's down to choice. unless we're now in an oligarchy. And you forget some kids do things because they're told not to.

Teenage Rebellion + Abstinance Teaching + No Sex Ed therefore no protection = Rise in STDs, AIDS and teenage pregnancies/abortions.

The late
The great
Bill Hicks

Bill: "I'm pro-life!" Boy, they look it don't they? They just exude joie de vie. You just want to hang with them and play Trivial Pursuit all night long.

Audience chuckles.

Bill: You know what bugs me about them? If you're so pro-life, do me a favour - don't lock arms and block medical clinics. If you're so pro-life, lock arms and block cemeteries.

Audience laughs.

Bill: Let's see how committed you are to this idea.

(Bill mimes the pursed lipped pro-lifers locking arms.)

Bill: (as pro-lifer) She can't come in!

Audience laughs.

Bill: (as confused member of funeral procession) She was 98. She was hit by a bus!

Audience laughs.

Bill: (as pro-lifer) There's options!

Audience laughs.

Bill: (as confused member of funeral procession) What else can we do? Have her stuffed?

Audience laughs.

Bill: I want to see pro-lifers with crowbars at funerals opening caskets - "get out!" Then I'd be really impressed by their mission.

Audience laughs and applauds.

Is abortion the down fall of the Social Security system? In last few decades over 30 million potential employees were eliminated. Could they of filled the large gap created by the baby boomers in the system? Something to think about or discuss.


Actually many would have drained the system. Major diesease and deformities such as CF and Downs.

Many would have been social assistence.

So the potential employee is a "what if" question.....

Hmm...

Measured, deliberate, mass murder of a race forced on a country by a party and the choice of women, reagrdless of race, to abort a reliant entity which could ruin their life or kill them...

Yeah, I see they're the same.
In most cases of abortion, the mother already had the right to choose. She chose to have sex. It is the mother and father of the unborn child are unwilling to take responsibility for their actions, they are guilty of murdering their son or daughter through 'abortion.'

Obviously you didn't pay very good attention to your lord Jesus Christ's message.

There are multitudes of versus in the Bible that discuss capital punishment. Rape, Murder, and etc. Look in Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Genesis, and more. Jesus told us to love everybody and forgive. Jesus said nothing about leaving the guilty unpunished for their crimes.

Sex education is wrong. Abstinence only education is the way to go. All sex education does is promote immoral behavior.

But what if it was shown that many teenagers have sex despite abstinence education? Wouldn't you allow them to be educated about condoms to reduce the pregnancy rate then?

The fact is that if everybody conforms to your correct moral ideals then there would be no need for contraception and there would only be a need for abortion in cases where the mother's life is threatened. However, not everybody does conform to these ideals and you need to make some kind of provision for that.

I'm just in favour of killing babies, I don't care about the reason.

I'm just in favour of killing babies, I don't care about the reason.

"GET IN MA BELLY!"

Sex between teachers and students need to be incouraged.

There are multitudes of versus in the Bible that discuss capital punishment. Rape, Murder, and etc. Look in Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Genesis, and more. Jesus told us to love everybody and forgive. Jesus said nothing about leaving the guilty unpunished for their crimes.
The death penalty is not the only way to punish these crimes. Lock them up for life. State-sponsored murder still breaks the "Thou shall not murder" commandment.

Sex between teachers and students need to be incouraged.

Ooh, sex ed classes which do practical technique as well as theory!

Actually many would have drained the system. Major diesease and deformities such as CF and Downs.

Many would have been social assistence.

So the potential employee is a "what if" question.....

A large majority of abortions are not because the child is ill. Do you believe that all 30 million children all had CF, Downs, and other deformities? Also, if what you said is true is it ok to put down CF or Downs people that are living today because they are a drain?

Ooh, sex ed classes which do practical technique as well as theory!

Would getting a hooker be extra credit?

Imprisonment for life is a stupid idea. Its expensive, and unnessessarily cruel.

Whereas killing people, well, as stalin said, "death solves all problems. no man, no problem."

I'm not in favour of cruelty, just ending life as quickly and as painlessly as possible.

Would getting a hooker be extra credit?

Well, if you get an STD I guess you could chalk it up as extra experience.

There are multitudes of versus in the Bible that discuss capital punishment. Rape, Murder, and etc. Look in Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Genesis, and more. Jesus told us to love everybody and forgive. Jesus said nothing about leaving the guilty unpunished for their crimes.

Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Genesis aren't Jesus Christ. And there are other methods for punishing the guilty besides taking their lives.

Downs people that are living today because they are a drain?

Anyone who says this will have to face me. :mad:

Abortion should only be allowed for rape and health. But rape victims should get incourage ment to have the child, dad pay for everything, tax breaks, ect.

Sex between teachers and students need to be incouraged.

What if the teacher is ugly? :(

Or, what if the teacher is the same gender and you are not a homosexual? :(

Jesus told us to love everybody and forgive. Jesus said nothing about leaving the guilty unpunished for their crimes.

If you are told to forgive, it implies that there should be something to forgive. You can't forgive people who haven't done anything wrong. I doubt that his message was "love everybody and forgive them their trespasses, but if somebody nicks your stereo, rain down fire and brimstone on them".

obviously we should let eveyone live, and do it with who ever they want to....that way when our planet becomes over populated and all of our resources are gone we have someone to blame, as our race becomes entinct...but as long we dont kill any innocent babies its ok...we didnt need the earth...or human race anyways. :headbang:

A large majority of abortions are not because the child is ill. Do you believe that all 30 million children all had CF, Downs, and other deformities? Also, if what you said is true is it ok to put down CF or Downs people that are living today because they are a drain?

Can't speak for the whole country. Only speaking for one hospitol when I asked for what a sign ment on a door. Many of their abortions were major diseases.

I won't take the bait of the master race analogy.

Fact remains, it's the familes choice. There are some who don't have the capacity to deal with such children. There are those that do. There are some that want to do it anyway..

A friend's brother had a happy healthy child and then another with serious downs. People warned him but he said he would have the child. The happy child is but a shadow of his formal self as he was basically ignored due to the 24/7 attention his brother needed. The family was broken and eventually divorsed. The child ended up dying anyway. Don't remember the reason.

The death penalty is not the only way to punish these crimes. Lock them up for life. State-sponsored murder still breaks the "Thou shall not murder" commandment.

The bible supports killing as a punishment a multiple amount of times. However, the commandment states that people shouldn’t kill other people as a rule. If you break that rule you shall be punished.

"Whoever sheds the blood of man,

by man shall his blood be shed;

for in the image of God

has God made man.
Genesis 9:6

Anyone who says this will have to face me. :mad:

Abortion should only be allowed for rape and health. But rape victims should get incourage ment to have the child, dad pay for everything, tax breaks, ect.

Why do you have to go on and mis-qoute me like that? That's a Michael Moore tatic.

Thats right. Our beloved country of America is running a genocide program similar to Hitlers. Its victims? Innocent children. Every day countless innocent babies without a single sin are being massacred by SS doctors and criminal whores who order them to do it. This is cleverly disguised as a "choice." Yeah, it is a "choice." A choice to murder. I can't see how anyone would want to allow this "choice." Abortion is the worst thing to happen to this country. I think that if there is an 100% chance the mother will die if she has the baby an abortion is acceptable, but anything else is barbaric murder that should be made illegal. Including rape and incest. A child should not have to be killed for the wrongs of the mother or father. Abortion has claimed over 30 million children. These stupid whores who can't control themselves decide to act immoraly and then when they get pregnant decide to have their baby butchered. Its pure evil. And what has the government done about this? Not much until a good man like Bush got into office. President Bush has honorably tried to stop this, and has taken the first step toward ending this holocaust by banning partial-birth abortion, the evil procedure where the doctor yanks that baby halfway from the womb and then slams an icepick-like device into its spine, murdering the poor baby. Now we have to take the next step though, and ban all forms of abortion. I will not tolerate seeing millions of children die so some whore can get her way. Abortion is murder, plain and simple, and should be banned.
Go pound sand. I don't like it either, but you speak your point from a highly idealistic and not very realistic viewpoint, and with all of the eloquence of a sledgehammer on a crash cymbal.

The bible supports killing as a punishment a multiple amount of times. However, the commandment states that people shouldn’t kill other people as a rule. If you break that rule you shall be punished.

"Whoever sheds the blood of man,

by man shall his blood be shed;

for in the image of God

has God made man.
Genesis 9:6

But that quote is in Genesis. Jesus himself preached forgiveness. I'm not saying that murderers should be unpunished, but I would probably go with what the son of God says.

Imprisonment for life is a stupid idea. Its expensive, and unnessessarily cruel.

Whereas killing people, well, as stalin said, "death solves all problems. no man, no problem."

Well, believe it or not, once you figure in the legal costs of the appeal process and the expense of incarceration on death row, the average execution is more expensive than the average life sentence. So much for the economics. As for the philosophical side, let's find someone other than Joey S. to put a backbone in that post, shan't we?

As for Commando, I'd like to make some jokes at his expense, but frankly I'm a little too nauseated to do that. Particularly because of his tenuous grasp on reality and his broad categorization of women with unexpected/unwanted pregnancies as "whores." (I'll assume "he" because that ain't ladylike conduct and because in my experience the most vocal pro-lifers tend to be males aged 15-25, believe it or not.)

I sincerely hope that Commando is either too young to know better or simply old and embittered on account of being saddled with some unwanted kids at an early age and therefore determined to impose his unplanned but oh-so moral misery on others.

the end, sincerely
The Pole

There are multitudes of versus in the Bible that discuss capital punishment. Rape, Murder, and etc. Look in Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Genesis, and more. Jesus told us to love everybody and forgive. Jesus said nothing about leaving the guilty unpunished for their crimes.

So are you saying those books of the Old Testement should be followed?

Becuase there is a lot more choice stuff in Leviticus about how to live, plus all the Jewish laws are in the first five books...

By the way, Commando2. That was a brilliant piece of social commentary, especially considering that America has about 11000 murders a year (yes, I know I got that statistic from Michael Moore, but it's probably more accurate than what this guy's saying). Who gives a crap about adults dieing, eh?
Most of which die in four main cities, LA, DC, NY, and CHI. Said cities have strict gun control or have outlawed it altogether. DC spends the most per capita in it's public schools and yet has some of the worst. All four cities at this point can be considered as the effects of the Democratic party's social engineering techniques and how they fail miserably. ;)

The death penalty is not the only way to punish these crimes. Lock them up for life. State-sponsored murder still breaks the "Thou shall not murder" commandment.
Ah, but is it truly murder? You are killing them, yes, but for the most part it is not truly out of malicious intent.

Like I said in the paragraph, I think to save a mothers life it is ok. But anything else, and I mean anything, is pure evil.

Abortion for the sake of convenience bothers me greatly (lol, your convenience is more important than your would-be child's life... what's hilarious is that some of these people are against the death penalty.. a total paradox)

but for rape, incest, mother's life etc.. i can understand that.

When I read this topic's title, I thought it'd be some leftist lambasting the US for hunting terrorists. lol

Not everyone believes the same as you do. Just because something is wrong by Christian standards doesn't mean that it should be banned all over the world. I consider myself a Christian, and while I believe abortion is wrong, I'm not going to go around telling people that they have to stop performing abortions, just as I'm not going to go around telling people what they have to believe about religion.

However, I do believe such practices as partial-birth abortion are wrong.

But that quote is in Genesis. Jesus himself preached forgiveness. I'm not saying that murderers should be unpunished, but I would probably go with what the son of God says.

BTW
Jesus said to honor his Father's commands and keep them holy (i think that's actually how he said it).

He taught forgiveness, yes, but probably to him forgiveness meant being forgiven in terms of going to heaven... in some cases he'd probably think punishment is okay.

Ooh, biting sarcasm!

EDIT: Hang on, I read it more carefully and I think this may just be a lunatic rant on abortion...
Lunatic? The left: saving murderers on death row while killing babies for 40 years and still going strong.

Sex between teachers and students need to be incouraged.
Especially if the teacher is our Physics teacher... :fluffle:
so hot...

Okay, in the perfect world people love each other to pieces and would be as close as a married couple before having sex. They have lots of babies and never do they have miscarriages, rape, cheating or incest. Their child support and wages could support twice the amount they'll ever produce, and there is a hydroponic farm and full auto pocket factory in the basement suplying them endless food, clothes, luxury goods and what-not.

Oh yeah, in the perfect world there would not have been any 9-11, Pearl Harbour, World Wars, Atomic Bombs and stupid (Islamic) Terror.

Fact is: this is NOT the perfect world! This is what we make it, and apparently we decided to make a mess of it. We have no limitless resources, there is starvation we forum visitors don't know about, rape happens on all levels everywhere, disasters strike us from time to time, we piss on each other's graves and morality is far sought.

People want abortions because they realise that their children might not get the resources to shape their world because these are drained too fast. People want abortions because they tried to prevent pregnancy, but failed. People want abortions because their president and teachers did not even want them to know how to prevent pregnancy in the first place. People want abortions because the child will/could have some shocking disease like AIDS or syndrome like down. People want abortions to hide the shame of having to tend to a bastard or inbred child. People want abortions because they don't want the child to be placed in an orphanage. Sometimes, people want abortion because they knew the risks involved but ended up with a pregnant woman anyway. These are valid reasons, and there have to be many others, why people want abortions. You might argue it isn't a valid reason and it's wrong, but you're not the one seeking an abortion now are you?

Is a woman who decides to abort her child so much worse than a president who throws neutron bombs one some other guys land, for selfish reasons, to suply his own car with 'affordable' gasoline? Is an 'SS doctor' so much more cruel when he 'hits the baby with an icepick' than a fatherly comrade who cares so much for his country that he deports the defending generals, liquidates less-than socialist elements, kills everybody who looks at him weirdly and sends men after his old 'comrade' to assasinate HIM with an icepick?

Of course, in this screwed-up world there are people that are just stupid, and they often have the most impact, or this would be the perfect world. The Muslim blows up a bus because the jews mock Allah by taking over Palestine. The Nazi shoots the Slav because he's just of an inferior race, thus expendable. The US marine shoots a villager because his best friend told him the guy/girl looked like a Vietcong. Apparently, the conservative thinks euthanasia and abortion is cruel murder and genocide while death row is a just dessert.

If it weren't for stupid intollerance and dogmatic brainwashing this world would be so much nicer.

What if the teacher is ugly? :(
True beauty is on the inside. Besides. Do you want to graduate or not? So just suck it up.

Or, what if the teacher is the same gender and you are not a homosexual? :(
In that case you will pass his/her class by doing it anyway.

Lunatic? The left: saving murderers on death row while killing babies for 40 years and still going strong.

The idea is that you save the wrongly accused ones, mate. :)


By the way, Frangland, I really don't know a great deal about the Bible, so I'm going to have to agree with you on this point. If Jesus said that, I guess it's inarguable.

(I'm not Christian myself, by the way)

Ooh, sex ed classes which do practical technique as well as theory!
No better way to aquire a firm grasp of figures.

I think that if there is an 100% chance the mother will die if she has the baby an abortion is acceptable, but anything else is barbaric murder that should be made illegal. Including rape and incest.

Honey, as a woman, I'll tell you this much, I'm not too thrilled with abortion myself. In fact, I only support first term abortion and even then, only in the most dire of circumstances.

That said, if I was raped and found myself pregnant, and a safe, legal abortion was not available to me, I would put my .357 to my stomach and pull the trigger, and then I would put it to my head and do the same. Choke on them apples.

Your acting disgusting

Our beloved country of America is running a genocide program similar to Hitlers. Its victims? Innocent children. Every day countless innocent babies without a single sin are being massacred by SS doctors and criminal whores who order them to do it. This is cleverly disguised as a "choice." Yeah, it is a "choice." A choice to murder...Abortion has claimed over 30 million children. These stupid whores who can't control themselves decide to act immoraly and then when they get pregnant decide to have their baby butchered. Its pure evil...I will not tolerate seeing millions of children die so some whore can get her way. Abortion is murder, plain and simple, and should be banned.

I don't believe this and furthermore I don't think you believe it either.

If it were true that abortion was the genocide of 30 million children then what kind of coward would stand by and allow that to happen? You said you "will not tolerate seeing millions of children die."

So what are you doing about it?

I'm not talking about posting messages on the Internet or voting or writing your congressperson or even protesting at abortion clinics. If the government started systematically taking random 12 year olds out of the school and shooting them wouldn't you and every other moral person take to the streets with guns to defend those children? Wouldn’t you resort to violence to stop such a horror? Wouldn't you join an underground to stop that atrocity? Wouldn't you be willing to foment a revolution?

I would.

But I don't believe this is genocide and neither do you, because if you truly did then any response short of armed insurrection is cowardice.

I think anyone dying is horrible. Thats why I'm pro-life on numerous issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and embyronic stem cell research.
Ok, I know this thread has sort of progressed past this quote, but I just wanted to present Commando2 with this situation:

You receive news one day that your mother has been diagnosed with a non-terminal but incurable and truly terrible disease. You decide to visit her at the hospital. You discover her in terrible state. Every breath she takes is a sputtering gasp, she has gone mute with the pain in her throat, she cringes at every sound, her muscles have stopped functioning correctly and she is not a moment with out horrible, horrible pain, tearing her apart from the inside. But the doctors say she will not die. She will lay in bed, a cripple, unable to breathe, speak, think above the unending pain, she will never be able to tell you that she loves you. And she will never recover. And you are left with a choice: watch your mother be tortured for the rest of her years (however many they may be), or give her the chance to die humanely. What do you do?

And this is why it is not the abortionists, or the advocates of euthanasia, or the mothers who let their unliving babies (and for that matter, ones that will never live again) be used to save millions, who will go to hell. It will be you. Now please, do us a favor and go die in a hole somewhere.

Ok, I know this thread has sort of progressed past this quote, but I just wanted to present Commando2 with this situation:

You receive news one day that your mother has been diagnosed with a non-terminal but incurable and truly terrible disease. You decide to visit her at the hospital. You discover her in terrible state. Every breath she takes is a sputtering gasp, she has gone mute with the pain in her throat, she cringes at every sound, her muscles have stopped functioning correctly and she is not a moment with out horrible, horrible pain, tearing her apart from the inside. But the doctors say she will not die. She will lay in bed, a cripple, unable to breathe, speak, think above the unending pain, she will never be able to tell you that she loves you. And she will never recover. And you are left with a choice: watch your mother be tortured for the rest of her years (however many they may be), or give her the chance to die humanely. What do you do?

Hooray, euthanasia. I've always been fascinated with ethics, and this is one of the issues I am enamored of seeing people's opinions on.

Would you believe that in one editorial I read, one of the objections to euthanasia was that some doctors would have qualms about either active or assive euthanasia?

I find it profoundly funny that that is used as an argument as to why euthanasia is fundamentally wrong.

Wow, I am off-ropic, and posting in an odd style. How strange.

Whoa, now the death penalty.

The death penalty has no rational grounds.

Briefly:

It cannot logically deter crime because:
a)In a crime of passion, the perp isn't going to stop and think about it... "oh, no, if i kill this person i'll fry"
b)If the person is intent on killing someone, he will do it... if he is a sociopath, he will not give a rat's ass about anyone else -- the world is his playground -- and will do as he pleases. If the person is not a sociopath but is nonetheless intent on the killing, he will likely have planned it out so that he won't get caught.

Also, people have been wrongfully killed; in cases with lots of circumstantial evidence, HOW can they be sure they've got the right guy?
Life imprisonment costs less. It does just as good a job of keeping murderers off the streets. And you don't have to wonder if the wrong person was executed.

Your acting disgusting

Ok, then I've got an even better idea..after I teach you that the possessive of you is you're and not your, that is ^^ hahaha... (school helps, hon)

Anyway, how about this...we send all the unwanted children to you dude! Yup, thats right! No more need for abortion because Commando2 has such a big heart, and an even bigger home and wallet, that he agrees to take every child that was the product of rape, incest, born too sickly to have any quality of life or with a terminal disease, born horribly deformed, born into intense poverty and suffering, into his home to care for them for the rest of their lives!

Three cheers for Commando2, that wonderful guy, who took all the children with little or no quality of life, that abortion could have put out of their misery, and had them all suffer physically and mentally for years and years because his moral constitution told him to!

better idea:

make people take responsibility for their own mistakes... own up to the child and take care of it as a parent should.

"should" is my favorite word. hehe

Especially if the teacher is our Physics teacher... :fluffle:
so hot...

:eek:

A hot physics teacher? Who thought it would be possible? ;)

Why are children dying more tragic than anyone else dying?
Had Hitler died as a child the world could have been a vastly better place yet it would have been seen as a tragedy. Surely his survival was a far greater tragedy. Jeseus died apparently in his thirties when the average life expectancy was around 50-60. A huge tragedy but had he died when he was a young child, it would have been routine.
How do we know that Jesus hasn't been reborn (the second coming) but died in infancy from poverty, pollution and neglect / abuse or even accidentally shot by a parent with a legally held gun.
How do we know how many Hitlers we been saved from by malnutrition (an obvious and real evil) or abortion (a supposed evil)?
Humans, invented and continue to use, concentration camps - humans also invented, and continue to use, morality. Often putting forward the same justifications for both i.e. it's best for everybody in society or only the wicked have anything to fear or even more terrifyingly "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD".
All these have one thing in common, they apply to somebody else not us good wholesome fellows.

PS Don't credit Jesus with morality, it has been around since man started to think.

Dewat,
The situation you present me with is horribly sad. However I will not allow euthanasia. The doctor can use any kind of pain killer he wants, but killing is out of the question. I don't have the heart to pull the plug on anyone, especially my beloved family.

Great beer and food,
First of all stop calling my honey and trying to make me sound like I'm 10. Second of all you sound like a cold blooded killer to me. You get raped. Thats awful, I feel bad for you. And what do you do about it? You murder a developing human. GIVE IT UP FOR ADOPTION! Don't kill it.

:eek:

A hot physics teacher? Who thought it would be possible? ;)
Yeah. But she married one of the other teachers, bringing much sadness to the entire school. :(

Jeseus died apparently in his thirties when the average life expectancy was around 50-60.
That high?

Dewat,
The situation you present me with is horribly sad. However I will not allow euthanasia. The doctor can use any kind of pain killer he wants, but killing is out of the question. I don't have the heart to pull the plug on anyone, especially my beloved family.

Great beer and food,
First of all stop calling my honey and trying to make me sound like I'm 10. Second of all you sound like a cold blooded killer to me. You get raped. Thats awful, I feel bad for you. And what do you do about it? You murder a developing human. GIVE IT UP FOR ADOPTION! Don't kill it.
1. In that sad situation Dewat described, I get the feeling painkillers won't do a whole lot. What if the terminally ill person wants to die? What do you possibly say to them? "Sorry, but my own morality dictates that you should stay here in pain, rather than being quickly released, like you want."

2. You have never become pregnant due to rape. You never will. You will never have an unwanted pregnancy. You have NO IDEA what that would be like (neither, for that matter, do I). Hence, you really aren't qualified to talk about what women should or shouldn't do. You'll never be in that situation, so you necessarily utterly fail to empathize.

I don't see what is so hard about giving the child up for adoption. WHY MUST THEY KILL IT? Thats right, kill. All you people posting here now could have been aborted. However, thank your mother, she chose life. And I am sure you agree it was a good decision.

The docotr doesn't have a painkiller strong enough to keep your mother from feeling pain for the rest of her life. Whether it be from disease or knowing that her own son wouldn't let her be free into heaven, we would never know. Then again, maybe if you weren't restricting stem cell research, there would be some form of a cure for her.

Any idiot and their brother knows that death is a far better fate than a life of torture. That is not just logic, not just common sense, that is the only moral thing to do.

It's a real conversation point to say that you met someone who is willing to torture his mother :mad:.

Maybe the solution here is a mandantory abortion for every woman's first child, so then it'll stop being a big deal. Maybe after that, you'll start to see women as something other than baby-making machines which don't spread until marriage.

Your religion is a sham.

I don't see what is so hard about giving the child up for adoption. WHY MUST THEY KILL IT? Thats right, kill. All you people posting here now could have been aborted. However, thank your mother, she chose life. And I am sure you agree it was a good decision.
Your logic is faulty. If my mother had had an abortion, I wouldn't be around to think it was a bad thing. Besides, what if my life ends up doing a massive amount of damage to the world? What if I accidentally hit the Big Red Button someday and wipe out the human race? Wouldn't it have been good for me to have been aborted then?

And, if any of us posting here was born before 1972, many of us actually couldn't have been aborted.

Funny, I don't think my mother would want euthansia. Who am I to say she should get it? And embryonic stem cell research hasn't helped one person. If it can be proven to help people then maybe I'll change my mind. And ps, it has been recently discovered that other stem cells might be able to be changed so thy can work as embryonic stem cells.

And ps, it has been recently discovered that other stem cells might be able to be changed so thy can work as embryonic stem cells.
Well, no. Adult stem cells are good and fine, but they just lack the capacity to morph into as many cell types as embryonic stem cells.

I don't see what is so hard about giving the child up for adoption. WHY MUST THEY KILL IT? Thats right, kill. All you people posting here now could have been aborted. However, thank your mother, she chose life. And I am sure you agree it was a good decision.

Ever heard of pregnancy?
How 'bout childbirth?
That's what's so hard about it.

Also, I might be inclined to say that it would have been a good thing for some people if I had not existed. Not a 'better off dead' thing, a 'better off not having been around to cause it' thing. Also, there were childbirth complications from my birth. I would not and still do not wish death upon my mother. If it would have killed her to have me and I had some way of making a decision myself about it, I would have been aborted. Of course, it's impossible, but there you go.

First of all, not many LIVING people are willing to go out and get back surgery to get stem cells taken out of their spine. Second of all, of course stem cells haven't saved anyone yet! You're restricting research too much for them to ever be properly tested - think a bit about that.

Funny, I don't think my mother would want euthansia. Who am I to say she should get it?

You are dodging the question.
The question asks what if she *did* want euthanasia?
What would you say then?

In before the lock! (Thanks to Dewat's post above) :D

Sorry Mentholyptus, but I wanna here more of what commando has to say about his stance on the issues. I don't believe in getting out of arguments before they are over.

Dewat, I sent a message to your nation explaining my position clearly. One of my big concerns with euthanasia is that, what if a cure for the disease is found. If the people have chosen to die, they are gone and could not have been cured.

That's cool, I'm just letting you know...that could probably be construed as a flame.

I honestly don't care. Let the mods lock it. I've made my point. I may not like my chance to criticize commando getting taken away, but all have many other oppurtunities for it.

Here's a take on this that isn't new, but remains valid.

If all life is sacred, why do we draw the line at conception? I mean think about that for a second. Every time some undersexed, "wait till marriage" pro-lifer jerks off into a dirty sock, that's somewhere around 9 million potential babies who are denied any future except starching said dirty sock. Every four weeks in which a woman fails to get pregnant (through abstinence or contraception), she crushes the future of the little would-be person that falls out of her lil' ole fallopian tube. And, even in the event of a successful conception, there are still something like 8,999,999 little swimmers who never get a chance to exist and by the time she hits menopause, the average woman will still have several million eggs left in the magazine.

What about all those little babies? In the act of conception, you've killed off an entire New York Metro's worth of babies.

Is a fetus somehow more entitled to life than the little sperm in the sock or the egg that drops, like a tiny bloody knuckleball into the waiting catcher's mitt of the kotex? If so, why? Neither the squandered spunk nor the early-term fetus are viable beings. Either may become a person, but why make the one sacred but not the other?

The funny part is I'm not actually pro-choice. No, I advocate a third way which involves the mandatory distribution and application of scrotal clamps and a little device we call "the stopper."

Yeah, I'm a little pro-choice.

Dewat, I sent a message to your nation explaining my position clearly. One of my big concerns with euthanasia is that, what if a cure for the disease is found. If the people have chosen to die, they are gone and could not have been cured.
But as I've just explained, if you do not allow the research for the correction of such diseases then this whole argument is useless. And I'll check the message in a little bit.

First, allow me to say, this is a "grey area." There is no real "right answer." There never will be.

Now for the semi-flaming.

To bring "The Bible" into being "what's right," is utter, bullshit. To say that some dead guy and some being that could not exist, "told you" all this, is just arrgont and narrowminded.

Has the thought of, "Think for yourself" ever crossed your pea brain? Instead of quoting a book thats out of date, try quoting an orginal thought. Like soemthing starting with, "Well, I think..."

Bah.

No point in going further with all this, this whole thread is made up of "black and white" arguments. Although I did see a few "grey areas."

Commando2,

A woman's body is her OWN private property. It belongs to her (and her God, if she does believe in such an entity). No one other than her and her God (if she does believe) have any rights to her body. If she can determine what she eats, what she wears, whether or not she wants to take birth control pills, accept a professional's help, then what makes her incapable of seeking an abortion if she desires it...

(let's just say she was raped, or maybe she is just a silly teenager who went to a party and had a drink, or she was hanging out with her boyfriend of three years and they were intimate (passion is quite powerful, the mind works in very strange ways. The mind actually goes blank in the heat of ecstasy), or... I don't know, she and her husband decided to have a night of wild passion, and then they decide that they can't handle another child, or aren't read, or maybe the child will be a burden on the system... Anything can happen. It isn't just because she's a shameless sinning whore)....

So, if she gets it, what makes it your business? How does the abortion of HER fetus affect you? (let's assume that it's not your girlfriend, since we all know she wouldn't because she'd be moral *eyeroll*).

How does the abortion of any single fetus affect you?

It ends a life. And all life deserves to come into this world. I could ask you, "how does 6 million jews dying affect you?" It doesn't, but that doesn't mean you should tolerate it.

It ends a life. And all life deserves to come into this world. I could ask you, "how does 6 million jews dying affect you?" It doesn't, but that doesn't mean you should tolerate it.
While it doesn't affect me, drawing parallels to the Holocaust and aborition just proves how eak your argument is.

While it doesn't affect me, drawing parallels to the Holocaust and aborition just proves how eak your argument is.
Question,
Does Godwin's Law apply on this forum? Since we have a lot of Nazis, I always suspected we were an exception, but I was just wondering...

Dude, until a foetus is born, it is essentially a parasite feeding on it's mother. It's not an independent life, it's a human tapeworm. It does not have rights. It's mother does. And what she wants to eject from her body is her own damned business. Especially if she can't give the child a decent life.

And as for the idea of preganant women seeking an abortion being 'whores', is that because they've had sex in general? It only has to happen once.

More importantly, think of all the sperm you kill when you sit in front of your computer all night, beating off to pictures of women you'd like to be your whore. You waste 40 million to 600 million sperm when every you ejaculate. So, all men are mass murderers, just by HAVING sex. Your firing all those little dudes, and only one's going to make it. Taking into account that the wombs defences also attack the sperm the moment it gets out, and even if she KEEPS the baby she's already incidently murdered 599,999,999 of it's slightly-slower brothers. So she shouldn't feel too bad about one more.

I don't believe this and furthermore I don't think you believe it either.

If it were true that abortion was the genocide of 30 million children then what kind of coward would stand by and allow that to happen? You said you "will not tolerate seeing millions of children die."

So what are you doing about it?

I'm not talking about posting messages on the Internet or voting or writing your congressperson or even protesting at abortion clinics. If the government started systematically taking random 12 year olds out of the school and shooting them wouldn't you and every other moral person take to the streets with guns to defend those children? Wouldn’t you resort to violence to stop such a horror? Wouldn't you join an underground to stop that atrocity? Wouldn't you be willing to foment a revolution?

I would.

But I don't believe this is genocide and neither do you, because if you truly did then any response short of armed insurrection is cowardice.

So which is it Commando2? Are you a coward or a hypocrite?

It ends a life. And all life deserves to come into this world. I could ask you, "how does 6 million jews dying affect you?" It doesn't, but that doesn't mean you should tolerate it.

Strawman. The holocaust was planned and executed.

Nobody plans for an abortion.

Not everybody has an abortion.

Why do you have to go on and mis-qoute me like that? That's a Michael Moore tatic.
i wasn't saying you think that, but anyone who dose i will hurt.

Nasopotamia, I don't believe in pornography so your arguement fails. As for the other guy, if I take up arms and start blowing up abortion clinics I'll be breaking commandment 6. I understand why some people feel like attacking them, but violence is not the answer. I protest against abortion all the time, I always vote for pro-life candidates, I try and recruit other people to be pro-life, I'm very active. But I wouldn't place a bomb in a clinic, as that would be breaking the countries laws and Gods laws.

Sex before marriage is immoral and disgusting. If everyone just behaved properly and waited until they were married this world would be a whole lot better.


umm.........disgusting is taking it a bit far dont you think? And call me skeptic, but I'm not sure that people waiting to have sex until marriage is going to make the world a whole lot better.

umm.........disgusting is taking it a bit far dont you think? And call me skeptic, but I'm not sure that people waiting to have sex until marriage is going to make the world a whole lot better.
It just delays the inevitable...

First, allow me to say, this is a "grey area." There is no real "right answer." There never will be.

Now for the semi-flaming.

To bring "The Bible" into being "what's right," is utter, bullshit. To say that some dead guy and some being that could not exist, "told you" all this, is just arrgont and narrowminded.

Has the thought of, "Think for yourself" ever crossed your pea brain? Instead of quoting a book thats out of date, try quoting an orginal thought. Like soemthing starting with, "Well, I think..."

Bah.

No point in going further with all this, this whole thread is made up of "black and white" arguments. Although I did see a few "grey areas."

wow you really like quotation marks!

umm.........disgusting is taking it a bit far dont you think? And call me skeptic, but I'm not sure that people waiting to have sex until marriage is going to make the world a whole lot better.

Never mind the fact that people have been having sex out of wedlock since there were people.

Basically our friend is saying is that if everybody was the same as him, the world would be better.....

I think anyone dying is horrible. Thats why I'm pro-life on numerous issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and embyronic stem cell research.
I assume you are also a pacifist and against capital punishment?

If yes, congratulations you've broken the Republican stereotype.

Basically our friend is saying is that if everybody was the same as him, the world would be better.....
If that is a perfect world... I'd sooner jump off a bridge.

If that is a perfect world... I'd sooner jump off a bridge.

I would race you to the bottom! ;)

I assume you are also a pacifist and against capital punishment?

If yes, congratulations you've broken the Republican stereotype.

He says he is against bombing abortion clinics because that violates the law and God's law, yet he also says:

Whats wrong with people dying? Well it goes against my lord Jesus Christs message. As for those who do not share my faith, most everyone can agree that everyone deserves a chance at life. Of course, for serial killers, child molesters, and terrorists, I think we have the right to execute them.

So he might be the typical Republican.....

True beauty is on the inside.

Would you be saying that if the teacher was an ultra-fat woman with a hairy, scaly chest, a malformed face with bulging eyes, a pig snout with huge tufts of curly hair coming out, thick lips, and crooked yellow teeth? ;)

I think anyone dying is horrible. Thats why I'm pro-life on numerous issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and embyronic stem cell research.
As for those who do not share my faith, most everyone can agree that everyone deserves a chance at life. Of course, for serial killers, child molesters, and terrorists, I think we have the right to execute them.
HYPOCRITE ALERT!

There ain't no "but" in Thou shalt not kill.

Sex before marriage is immoral and disgusting. If everyone just behaved properly and waited until they were married this world would be a whole lot better.
Just because you've not married to the person you're having sex with, doesn't mean that it's casual or unprotected. I think that casual and unprotected sex is unwise, but I wouldn't dream of banning it.

But condoms are being discouraged. Many schools now teach abstinence programs. There's nothing wrong with abstinence, but it's wrong to tell kids that condoms don't work, just to give them a little extra push to abstain.
They actually tell kids that condoms don't work? lol

Sex education is wrong. Abstinence only education is the way to go. All sex education does is promote immoral behavior.
Abstinence works, but abstinence only education has been proven not to.

Sex education doesn't promote immorality and I can back this up with facts. Places such as the Netherlands which have good sex education have very low rates of teenage pregnancy. Places such as the UK and Texas which have little in the way of sex education have very high rates of teenage pregnancy and presumably, immoral sexual behaviour.

Jesus told us to love everybody and forgive. Jesus said nothing about leaving the guilty unpunished for their crimes.
Nobody is calling for us to let off criminals scott free, but state murder (execution) doesn't seem like loving anyone or forgiveness.

Imprisonment for life is a stupid idea. Its expensive, and unnessessarily cruel.
1. Actually sentencing someone to death costs more than incarcerating them for life.

2. Cruel? All the better. Murderers have to be punished for their crimes.

3. Imprisonment gives us the opportunity to release them if they are found to be innocent. Capital punishment gives no such option.

And, if any of us posting here was born before 1972, many of us actually couldn't have been aborted.

Technically we could have. Abortions did happen, although they were very rare and, for the most part, illegal. Sometime in the 1950's Senator Barry Goldwater arranged for his daughter to have an abortion, although it was highly illegal at the time.

See, now here's the thing. I couldn't possibly care less about what you think. If I want to get an abortion, then I'm going to, and I don't give a flying shit what you think, or what you're willing to "tolerate". Hate abortions? Think they're vile? Fine, don't get one. I'm not making you. But respect that I'm a grown person, fully capable of making my own decisions.

You're fully capable of making your own decisions, but not your childs. Don't assume that since you're an adult,you have the right to dictate whether your child lives or dies.

All four cities at this point can be considered as the effects of the Democratic party's social engineering techniques and how they fail miserably. ;)
Yes, there's nothing like the negative connotations of the term "social engineering". ;)

Lunatic? The left: saving murderers on death row while killing babies for 40 years and still going strong.
Looks like the left (I wish people would stop using such extremely broad generalisations as "the left" and "the right") has been unsuccessful at preventing the death penalty in the USA.

Here in Ireland, we have successfully banned the evil that is state murder, but abortion is not legal.

BTW, most pro-choicers do not consider abortion to be murder.

Every day countless innocent babies without a single sin are being massacred

You're a christian, right? Well, if you were, you'd probably believe the baby is guilty of original sin, the sin we all have according to mainstream Christianity.

Catholics believe babies go to Purgatory. Which is sort of a made up place, but so is heaven and hell. Anyway, Protestants believe babies just go to heaven. Oh, so now they deserve to go to Hell because they were "Murdered", but I digress...

Babies aren't people until like the 6-8 month period.

I don't see how you can consider it not to be living. It looks like a human, can hear, reacts to its surroundings, and is developing this whole time. Do you know that there is a video out shoing a partial birth abortion? The baby is halfway out of the womb, and the doctor has his murder wepon posed to strike. All through this the poor baby is crying and is trying to push the object away, no joke. And then it is murdered and blood goes everywhere. A murder was just commited and the victim never got justice. The doctors who perform these abortions and the patients who get them (unless to save their life) need to be locked up.

You're fully capable of making your own decisions, but not your childs. Don't assume that since you're an adult,you have the right to dictate whether your child lives or dies.
Can you truly say that when the 'child' is not sentient? In fact, I wouldn't even go so far as to call it a 'child' up until a point.

I don't see how you can consider it not to be living. It looks like a human, can hear, reacts to its surroundings, and is developing this whole time. Do you know that there is a video out shoing a partial birth abortion? The baby is halfway out of the womb, and the doctor has his murder wepon posed to strike. All through this the poor baby is crying and is trying to push the object away, no joke. And then it is murdered and blood goes everywhere. A murder was just commited and the victim never got justice. The doctors who perform these abortions and the patients who get them (unless to save their life) need to be locked up.
So what about abortions before that point?

Abortions before that point are evil and gruesome as well and should be banned.

Anyway, I'm a Catholic and I do believe everybody has original sin(until baptism). However our God is also very just and understands everything that happens. I don't think these babies are bound for hell or even purgatory. They go right to heaven , God bless their souls.

I don't see how you can consider it not to be living. It looks like a human, can hear, reacts to its surroundings, and is developing this whole time. Do you know that there is a video out shoing a partial birth abortion? The baby is halfway out of the womb, and the doctor has his murder wepon posed to strike. All through this the poor baby is crying and is trying to push the object away, no joke. And then it is murdered and blood goes everywhere. A murder was just commited and the victim never got justice. The doctors who perform these abortions and the patients who get them (unless to save their life) need to be locked up.
If the events happened the way you tell them, then that is definitely murder. But I doubt that they did.

I think anyone dying is horrible. Thats why I'm pro-life on numerous issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and embyronic stem cell research.
There are more like you :)
I am one of them

Cool :)

I don't see how you can consider it not to be living. It looks like a human, can hear, reacts to its surroundings, and is developing this whole time. Do you know that there is a video out shoing a partial birth abortion? The baby is halfway out of the womb, and the doctor has his murder wepon posed to strike. All through this the poor baby is crying and is trying to push the object away, no joke. And then it is murdered and blood goes everywhere. A murder was just commited and the victim never got justice. The doctors who perform these abortions and the patients who get them (unless to save their life) need to be locked up.


Commando, Commando, how can you let that go on? What kind of monster are you to turn your back on those 30 million? How can you live with yourself?

(I'm still waiting to hear if you are a coward or a hypocrite)

Thats right. Our beloved country of America is running a genocide program similar to Hitlers. Its victims? Innocent children. Every day countless innocent babies without a single sin are being massacred by SS doctors and criminal whores who order them to do it. This is cleverly disguised as a "choice." Yeah, it is a "choice." A choice to murder. I can't see how anyone would want to allow this "choice." Abortion is the worst thing to happen to this country. I think that if there is an 100% chance the mother will die if she has the baby an abortion is acceptable, but anything else is barbaric murder that should be made illegal. Including rape and incest. A child should not have to be killed for the wrongs of the mother or father. Abortion has claimed over 30 million children. These stupid whores who can't control themselves decide to act immoraly and then when they get pregnant decide to have their baby butchered. Its pure evil. And what has the government done about this? Not much until a good man like Bush got into office. President Bush has honorably tried to stop this, and has taken the first step toward ending this holocaust by banning partial-birth abortion, the evil procedure where the doctor yanks that baby halfway from the womb and then slams an icepick-like device into its spine, murdering the poor baby. Now we have to take the next step though, and ban all forms of abortion. I will not tolerate seeing millions of children die so some whore can get her way. Abortion is murder, plain and simple, and should be banned.

Lunatic rant, clearly not understanding why abortion is legal, essentially an idiot, blah, blah blah. *decides to ignore this individual*

Duede whatever your name is about coward or hypocrite I answered you already.

Duede whatever your name is about coward or hypocrite I answered you already.

As for the other guy, if I take up arms and start blowing up abortion clinics I'll be breaking commandment 6. I understand why some people feel like attacking them, but violence is not the answer.

Sorry, I didn't realize I was "the other guy." So, you are a pacifist who believes violence is never justified?

So, this has become us against Commando.

Since we are a majority and majorities make real good mobs, let us go lynch mob on this little kid! :D

So, this has become us against Commando.

Since we are a majority and majorities make real good mobs, let us go lynch mob on this little kid! :D
I'll get the rope, you find a tree, Someone else, get some torches! :D

I'll get the rope, you find a tree, Someone else, get some torches! :D
*goes out and scouts for a tree*

...

*comes back ten minutes later*

I found one! It's good and sturdy too!

*goes out and scouts for a tree*

...

*comes back ten minutes later*

I found one! It's good and sturdy too!
Good, very good, now about those torches.

*fumbles around with the knot*

I think some pitchforks are in order too

Hmn... I'll be a while, I'm on bagel break! I'll get the torches after.

Hmn... I'll be a while, I'm on bagel break! I'll get the torches after.
sounds good, we need for some more of the mob to assemble, if nothing else we can find some homless people.

Well, we'll postpone the lynching till morning when everyone will be back.

I usually try to reason with people whom I disagree with. I will say that I feel no impulse at all to do or not do something just becuase some religious text I don't believe in says so . I try to be reasonable but my thought on commando is if I knew my child was going to be like him I'd certainly have an abortion. Hope he gets raped and dies of a long, lingering, painful illness. Maybe an AIDs related cancer from getting raped. :sniper:

I usually try to reason with people whom I disagree with. I will say that I feel no impulse at all to do or not do something just becuase some religious text I don't believe in says so . I try to be reasonable but my thought on commando is if I knew my child was going to be like him I'd certainly have an abortion. Hope he gets raped and dies of a long, lingering, painful illness. Maybe an AIDs related cancer from getting raped. :sniper:
then do you wanna join the mob?

Well, we'll postpone the lynching till morning when everyone will be back.
I think it might be good, but I got to go to work tommorow morning

*finishes knot and swings it around*

Hmn... I'll be a while, I'm on bagel break! I'll get the torches after.
Can we combine the two and scientifically extrapolate the combustibility of bagels?

Instead of this mob biz have me go in the pyramid get-up and live broadcast me chasing him with the great knife .

Instead of this mob biz have me go in the pyramid get-up and live broadcast me chasing him with the great knife .
but running away from that isn't hard, why do you think he decided to carry a spear later, when you could actually get away.
The mob is still better

I think that abortion is wrong cept for health and rape. But if person aA fooled around with person B without measures then im lookin at it like this "whoops i messed up, lets kill little A jr."
I dont think that I could do it, im not nazi enough.............

I don't see how you can consider it not to be living. It looks like a human, can hear, reacts to its surroundings, and is developing this whole time. Do you know that there is a video out shoing a partial birth abortion? The baby is halfway out of the womb, and the doctor has his murder wepon posed to strike. All through this the poor baby is crying and is trying to push the object away, no joke. And then it is murdered and blood goes everywhere. A murder was just commited and the victim never got justice. The doctors who perform these abortions and the patients who get them (unless to save their life) need to be locked up.

Scientifically, in the early months a baby is as life as a sperm or egg. These are killed by the millions daily and no one feels guilty. You kill them en masse as well either by masturbation (and if you don't, you should look at what the Pope and his Cardinals cook up late at night) or through wet dreams which cannot be prevented. If god did not want life wasted, he'd placed a tap on people's box-o'-fun and trouser-snakes. Besides, if god is so forgiving, don't you think he'd pardon abortionists after they understand his master plan? If not, I'm glad we don't share the same beliefs.

And that video you described couldn't be anything less than horror. Speaking of which, have you ever seen Dawn of the Dead? What do you think of the good guys who shoot a zombie baby? Isn't that cruel?

Oh, and you didn't reply to my previous post.

Of course I don't masturbate. I do NOTHING related to any sexual activity because I believe anything relating to sex before marriage is wrong. And what do you mean about the Pope and his cardinals? They have done nothing wrong (well covering up the molestation was evil but I mean other than that).

Of course I don't masturbate. I do NOTHING related to any sexual activity because I believe anything relating to sex before marriage is wrong.

Bad troll! No cookie for you.

Commando, Commando, how can you let that go on? What kind of monster are you to turn your back on those 30 million? How can you live with yourself?

(I'm still waiting to hear if you are a coward or a hypocrite)
He is a hypocrite. He says
I think anyone dying is horrible.
Yet he is pro-death penalty and pro-war.

He is a hypocrite. He says

Yet he is pro-death penalty and pro-war.

Actually, I seem to remember him saying that he was anti death penalty. There was some other guy called Faustland or something who was pro death penalty, I think you've mixed them up.

He has some pretty extreme views (many of which I disagree with VERY strongly) but I don't think he's a hypocrite.


EDIT:


As for those who do not share my faith, most everyone can agree that everyone deserves a chance at life. Of course, for serial killers, child molesters, and terrorists, I think we have the right to execute them.

Woops, my mistake.

Where to start, where to start...I think I'll start with the original post.

Thats right. Our beloved country of America is running a genocide program similar to Hitlers. Its victims? Innocent children. Every day countless innocent babies without a single sin are being massacred by SS doctors and criminal whores who order them to do it. This is cleverly disguised as a "choice." Yeah, it is a "choice." A choice to murder. I can't see how anyone would want to allow this "choice." Abortion is the worst thing to happen to this country.
First off, unlike Hitler's program, they DO have the CHOICE of aborting their FETUS(it is NOT a baby. Get your vocabulary right. Heck, most abortions occur before it's even techincally an organism!). Second, it is not targeted at any ethnic group. Third, the feti cannot feel fear, pain, or suffer during an abortion, VERY different than Hitler's victims, which would have been fearing their lives every minute, and in pain and suffering while they died. Fourth, I can name quite a few thigns worse than abortion. Slavery comes to mind.

I think that if there is an 100% chance the mother will die if she has the baby an abortion is acceptable, but anything else is barbaric murder that should be made illegal. Including rape and incest. A child should not have to be killed for the wrongs of the mother or father.
It's not murder. Murder is illegal. Abortion is not(thankfully). Not allowing abortion in cases of rape & incest is pure evil. It tortures the mother because SHE is the one who has to carry the baby(that she most likely does NOT want) to full term, and is stuck either supporting it, or sticking it into an adoption home, where it has a SLIM chance of being adopted. One involves punishing the mother for something not her fault, the other involves punishing the child for something not its fault. And again, it's not a child. It's a fetus. If she killed it AFTER it was born, THEN she would have murdered(since killing your baby once it's born IS illegal) a child(since it's been born).

Abortion has claimed over 30 million children.
30 million? Sounds kind of high to me. Care to show a source?

These stupid whores who can't control themselves decide to act immoraly and then when they get pregnant decide to have their baby butchered. Its pure evil.
Beleive it or not, most people who get abortions AREN'T whores. Birth control can fail. Married couples can get the wife pregnent before either person is ready for a child. People can get raped, and get stuck with a child they don't want. Sure, there will be the occansional irresponsable person who uses abortion as "birth control"(techinically it's not, since birth control prevents pregnancy; hence the quotation mark), but using that logic, we should ban fast food because of the stupid people who eat too much of it, or ban cars because of bad drivers that get into accidents.


And what has the government done about this? Not much until a good man like Bush got into office.
Excuse me for a moment. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Bush a good man? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

President Bush has honorably tried to stop this, and has taken the first step toward ending this holocaust by banning partial-birth abortion, the evil procedure where the doctor yanks that baby halfway from the womb and then slams an icepick-like device into its spine, murdering the poor baby.
Again, it's not murder unless it's illegal. OF course, NOW partial-birth abortion is illegal...but either way, most abortions take place before it gets anywhere near that far.


Now we have to take the next step though, and ban all forms of abortion. I will not tolerate seeing millions of children die so some whore can get her way. Abortion is murder, plain and simple, and should be banned.
See above on the whore thing. And again, feti=/=children. Murder=illegal, abortion=/=illegal, so abortion=/=murder. Also, would you rather have the "millions" of "children" that died be stuck in a bad life? Either being stuck with a mother that never cared for them, or stuck in an adoption home, where they will likely never be adopted, and never have any people they call their parents? I don't know about you, but aborting feti(which don't feel anything most of the time, since they're usually aborted before they even have a functioning nervous system) seems far more humane than bringing unwanted children into the world.


Oh, and the world has too many people already. Also, nobody's forcing YOU to get an abortion. I find eating at McDonald's vile, but nobody's forcing me to eat there, so I have no right to advocate a ban on it.

Third, the feti cannot feel fear, pain, or suffer during an abortion, VERY different than Hitler's victims, which would have been fearing their lives every minute, and in pain and suffering while they died.


Apparently foetuses can feel pain (at least, that it what pro-life speakers at my school have said) once they reach a certain stage.

The big question in my mind is whether or not they can be defined as conscious human beings. Are they just reacting to stimuli or do they have some limited understanding of what is happening to them? Do they have a sense of self?

They do indeed Chicken pi. The baby inside the womb knows whats going on around it, and though it is still developing it thinks, hears, and can feel pain.

**Seig Heil!! You dirty whores!!!** yeah that was sarcasm

They do indeed Chicken pi. The baby inside the womb knows whats going on around it, and though it is still developing it thinks, hears, and can feel pain.
Of course, after the point where the brain is developed to the amount where it can percieve.
Would you be opposed to aborting it if it were in very early-stage development, before it could feel or anything?
Are you opposed to the morning-after pill?
Just trying to figure out exactly where you stand on this.

Yes, I am opposed to the morning after pill. And I am opposed to an abortion before it can hear, because a future life is eliminated.

Apparently foetuses can feel pain (at least, that it what pro-life speakers at my school have said) once they reach a certain stage.

The big question in my mind is whether or not they can be defined as conscious human beings. Are they just reacting to stimuli or do they have some limited understanding of what is happening to them? Do they have a sense of self?
I don't think a fetus is really conscious until very late in pregancy (definitely more than 6 mo., I really couldn't tell you when exactly). The brain just isn't fully formed, so feti simply can't be sentient. It's just not possible.


I'm very much pro-choice. I also oppose the killing of any sentient beings without a damned good reason. (note: "he killed someone" isn't good enough. "he killed lots of people and could easily get messages out of jail or leave himself to do it again" is probably good enough)

btw, count me in on the mob!

Yes, I am opposed to the morning after pill. And I am opposed to an abortion before it can hear, because a future life is eliminated.
"A future life"? That's laughable. As many have already pointed out, sperm and eggs are "future life," and they're wiped out by the millions on a constant basis. Care to go protest the unjust murder of millions of sperm who just weren't fast enough to get to the ovum? I thought not.

Real mature, you are all making a mob to lynch me because I want to save children. Don't forget your white hoods.

Good Lord - this is one of the funnier threads I've read lately. Thankfully, as a queer man, I'll never have to worry about getting a woman to the state where she'd need to decide whether or not to have an abortion.

Maybe that's the solution - homosexual sex except for when you want to procreate.

Or chastity belts and chemical castration for everyone!

Yeah, we just need to hang the dumb bastard. If someone wants to be pro-life, and is anti-death penalty, I can kinda respect that. But if you're pro-life and pro-death penalty, you're just a hypocritical dumbass. The life of a murderer is no less than the life of a foetus. It's amusing how the laws of the Bible these people follow are picked and followed at will.

Oh, and you don't masturbate? Right. Any guy who has hit puberty and isn't having sex OR jacking it doesn't have a dick. Either that, or he has some super-nasty messy nocturnal emissions on a regular basis. I feel sorry for whoever washes his sheets. His mom, undoubtedly.

btw, count me in on the mob!
Your as good as counted.
And just because were making a mob doesn't mean we are the KKK. We happen to think your views are stupid enough to warrant your not needing to stay in the "sentient" world

Everybody here keeps mentioning Hitler. His victims numbered around twelve million, at least those that HE intentionally killed. I'm not going to bother getting into how many of his soldiers were killed in the war.

Anyways, did people around here know that Stalin killed thirty million people, in such ways as his military and political purges, as well as the intentional starvation of around eight million Ukranians in the Ukranian famine in the 30s? This does not even include those victims of the gulags, or the millions of soldiers killed in the revolution and world war 2. And when I say soldiers, I dont just mean those killed by Germans or Finns etc., but men stuck inside "Punishment Battalions", who werent even counted amongst the dead. Their numbers have been estimated around 2 million dead.

And then there is Chairman Mao, who through his government controlled agriculture starved nearly 100 million chinese.

Oh and don't forget the American and Canadian governments extermination of the Aboriginals. Between the two countries I believe the tally is about 2 million.

Of course Stalin was our ally in world war 2, however. So what he did was strictly under the table of course. Pro-soviets even remember those times as the good old days. The same goes for chairman Mao, who was just one great old guy.

Just when you think of mass murderers, there are other people than Hitler. I'm not advocating what he did, however. Its just that I hear Hitler mentioned far too many times. Its like we've all been fucking ingrained to think of the Nazis as the absolute worst people on earth. Just remember that the Western world has had allies far worse than Hitler ever was.

Real mature, you are all making a mob to lynch me because I want to save children. Don't forget your white hoods.

No, fool, they are saying that because you want to tell everyone else what is best for them based on your own personal opinions.

I agree with your stance on abortion. However, your lunatic way of presenting your stance should be enough to place you in the local Jeffery Dormer holding facility.

Or chastity belts and chemical castration for everyone!
Who said anything about chemical castration?

"Ey, get me a spoon!"

See, it's so much more fun this way!

*pokes you with spoon*

Who's up first?

The point is freedom of choice. Unless it hurts you personally then whats the beef.

How about if the Embryo was the result of scientists using GM would that be alright to abort or not?

By the way, could you provide some sort of credible evidence? I've NEVER heard of partial birth abortion. I've seen detailed presentations by pro life campaigners about the subject and I've never heard of it. I'm assuming it's bullshit.

Exactly what is Partial Birth Abortion (PBA)?

Late Second and Third Trimester Partial Birth Abortion:The doctor turns the unborn child into the "breech" position (feet first) and pulls the child from the mother until all but the head is delivered. He or she then forces scissors into the base of the skull and inserts a catheter to suction out the child's brain.

What the nurse saw….

In September, 1993, Brenda Pratt Shafer, a registered nurse with thirteen years or experience, was assigned by her nursing agency to an abortion clinic. Since Nurse Shafer considered herself "very pro-choice," she didn’t think this assignment would be a problem. She was wrong. This is what Nurse Shafer saw:
" I stood at the doctor’s side and watched him perform a partial-birth abortion on a woman who was six months pregnant. The baby’s heartbeat was clearly visible on the ultrasound screen. The doctor delivered the baby’s body and arms, everything but his little head. The baby’s body was moving. His little fingers were clasping together. He was kicking his feet. The doctor took a pair of scissors and inserted them into the back of the baby’s head, and the baby’s arms jerked out in a flinch, a startle reaction, like a baby does when he thinks that he might fall. Then the doctor opened the scissors up. Then he stuck the high-powered suction tube into the hole and sucked the baby’s brains out. Now the baby was completely limp. I never went back to the clinic. But I am still haunted by the face of that little boy. It was the most perfect, angelic face I have ever seen."

The same procedure President Bill Clinton vetoed. One should ask why no one in this country sees a photo like this on the news. If this child had died in a war in a foreign country, his picture would be on all the major networks and on the front page of major newspapers.

The sad story is that this genocide is occurring in our own country everyday with out so much a cry of outrage or sadness, except by a few. Yet, NOW, the Clintons, Democrats and the Media calls us "Extremists, Radicals, Evil, and Mean Spirited". This child was 14 inches long, 2 lbs 2 0z., and was 30 weeks gestation (or 7 months old) when he was killed. I ask you, who is the extremist, radical, evil or mean spirited?

Pro-Choice say that this infanticide is carried out to protect the life of the mother, or to destroy a child that has a physical impairment. If that is true, than why does it take 3 to 5 days of extreme pain for the women to get prepared for the procedure. That's right, it takes 3 to 5 days to prepare the women for this so called life saving act of infanticide.

Dilating the cervix can take 3 to 5 days. You may notice the sticks like things around the baby (a total of twelve were found with the baby). They are called seaweed-type laminaria, they swell up like tampons. They are inserted into the cervix a few at a time over this 3 to 5 day period. Each successive day, a few more are placed, until the cervix is properly dilated to perform the PBA. What they won't tell you are the complications that can occur with this unnatural dilatation of the cervix:
It is very painful.
Possible infection can harm the women.
Incompetent Cervix can be a long term problem, making it difficult for the women to have children in the future.
The complications to the women during the procedure are life threatening in of itself and are very real. The uterus can be perforated, causing hemorrhaging, amniotic fluid embolism, life long mental anguish are only but a few. Ask your self, is this a truly life saving procedure, or is it just another means of abortion.

In the real world, when a mother's life becomes endangered during pregnancy, a C-section or induced labor are performed.

It is difficult to see, but the brutality of this procedure is unbelievable. This abortionist traumatically tore off the umbilical cord and his penis, and surgically shaved off the baby's buttocks so the he would bleed to death before his brains were sucked out after a hole was made at the base of the baby's skull. Take a close look at this baby, you may notice that he has all of his fingers (and his toes, even though you can't see them), and there is no cleft lip, no facial signs of mental illness. This baby had no outward signs of having any physical problems. This baby was killed at the convenience of the mother.

How long can our Country survive this immoral act of murder. Abortion destroys the life of the baby, enslaves the soul of the mother (and father, doctor, nurse, judge, politician...).

How many more victims... How many more?

http://www.tidalweb.com/life/photo.htm

^ Partial Birth Victim

So because the extreme example of one viewpoint is deeply unpleasant that does not necessarily cause the opposing viewpoint to be right. That description was pretty vivid and not something I would like to see and not something I would want to happen with any regularity. I should point out that I do not know what the time limit is for an abortion in the US so can not comment on any limit to be set.

However the majority of abortions do not happen that late in a pregnancy. I assume that the reason to have that procedure performed would have been considered deeply by the woman involved and I am in no real position to judge as I am not privy to that information. I may not agree with it and I may hope that it never happens again but I will defend a woman’s' right to be given the choice.

And I will defend the babies right to be given a life.

Fine C2. Just don't bring sensationalist terms into it and discuss it rationally.

Well we reach the empass then. Which is what's happening IRL too. People on both sides feeling very strongly that they have the right opinion.

Exactly what is Partial Birth Abortion (PBA)?

*snip*


Hmmm Didn't I see you at one of the protests? :rolleyes:

Chicken Pi: Do a search for a neutral description. Our friends explanation is the extreamist version of it.....

Hmmm Didn't I see you at one of the protests? :rolleyes:

Chicken Pi: Do a search for a neutral description. Our friends explanation is the extreamist version of it.....

I agree, sounds more like an urban legend. If we can make old people's lights go out with one injection, why would we go through the trouble of sucking someone's brain out? This sounds more like what Nazi scientists did to uncover the secrets of the human brain. Oh, and this version of partial birth control is not the preferred type of abortion because:

1. Most mothers make up their mind long before the six month period.

2. When the child gains shape, it will present only a greater health risk to the mother when it has to get out.

3. Of all abortions, this is the most unpleasant.

4. Bush outlawed it anyway. So what are you people whining about? Mind you, I'd like to see it legalized again just to piss off Shrub.

Oh, and I got another challenge for you's. Why oppose contraceptives? They can prevent the need for abortions. Just what's so vile about the pill? Funny fact: the pill has more than one use, like reducing the effect of menstruation among others.

Or how about this: why let your life be guided by the church? Is there one arbitrary argument, one in which the church does not exist, that tells us why birth control is totally wrong? If not, your thinking is controlled by the church, you are with only limited free will, and shouldn't be opposed to mind control.

Oh, and as for not masturbating, I could just feel someone's nose grow a few meters (funny fact: a Venetian custodian at my school once told me 'Finochio' means queer). And religious leaders certainly do have a sexual life or their scrotums would explode under the pressure. Unless they where castrated, which is (gasp!) birth control!

Truly, the scientific perspective prevails.

I have an odd feeling that we have a troll...

Thats right. Our beloved country of America is running a genocide program similar to Hitlers.

They probably got it as part of a package deal with all those ex-Nazi rocket scientists NASA put to work on the space race back in the Fifties...

The push for laws against partial birth abortions should be seen for what it actaully was. Sensational partisan politics. Laws were already in place outlawing abortion in that late stage execpt in cases of dire medical emergencies. 'Choice' could never be used to justify them and the law did not change this, it simply removed an emergency option for extreme cases of unviable pregnancies and life threatening circumstances.

Bush was no hero for signing this, he was a coward for caving to partisan, sensationalist, extremists.

He should be awarded a spine, not a medal.

*over intercom* Attention, we have another outbreak of ID-10T!

Have you ever been to Tokyo. If those 30M babies were born, we would have to have football players squish the people so the train doors can close also. The world does not need 30 M extra people. We can't feed a third of the world as it is. The enivornment's condition is intolerable. And Bush doesn't seem to be helping either of these problems. A embryo cannot think, or have free will. It is a part of the mother until at least the third trimeseter.

:( :mp5:


>There's you guys, supporting the cold murder of the helpless children for the 'comfort' of the mothers.

Would you abort these children?

(1) There’s a preacher and wife who are very, very, poor. They already have 14 kids. Now she finds out she’s pregnant with number 15. They’re living in tremendous poverty. Considering their poverty and the excessive world population, would you consider recommending she get an abortion?

(2) The father is sick with syphilis, the mother has TB. They have four children. The first is blind, the second is dead, the third is deaf, and the fourth has TB. She finds she’s pregnant again. Given the extreme situation, would you consider recommending abortion?


(3) A white man raped a 13-year-old black girl, and she got pregnant. If you were her parents, would you considering recommending abortion?


(4) A teenage girl is pregnant. She’s not married. Her fiancé is not the father of the baby, and he’s very upset. Would you consider recommending abortion?


In the first case, you have just killed John Wesley, one of the great evangelists in the 19th century.


In the second case, you have killed Beethoven.


In the third case, you have killed Ethel Waters, the great black gospel singer.


If you said yes to the fourth case, you have just declared the murder of Jesus Christ!!

>Okay... so as women keep aborting these unwanted children... what if one of these children was destined to cure cancer? or AIDS? or perhaps once and for all solve the problem and deliver an alternative fuel source. It's almost as if you've abandoned hope in these young children assuming they're all just worthless "burdens"

Well if they were aborted, that would be the fulfilment of their destiny, would it not?

If you believe in destiny.

Besides. Not my place to 'recommend' abortion. I just want people to have the choice ;)

:( :mp5:


>There's you guys, supporting the cold murder of the helpless children for the 'comfort' of the mothers.

Would you abort these children?

(1) There’s a preacher and wife who are very, very, poor. They already have 14 kids. Now she finds out she’s pregnant with number 15. They’re living in tremendous poverty. Considering their poverty and the excessive world population, would you consider recommending she get an abortion?

(2) The father is sick with syphilis, the mother has TB. They have four children. The first is blind, the second is dead, the third is deaf, and the fourth has TB. She finds she’s pregnant again. Given the extreme situation, would you consider recommending abortion?


(3) A white man raped a 13-year-old black girl, and she got pregnant. If you were her parents, would you considering recommending abortion?


(4) A teenage girl is pregnant. She’s not married. Her fiancé is not the father of the baby, and he’s very upset. Would you consider recommending abortion?


In the first case, you have just killed John Wesley, one of the great evangelists in the 19th century.


In the second case, you have killed Beethoven.


In the third case, you have killed Ethel Waters, the great black gospel singer.


If you said yes to the fourth case, you have just declared the murder of Jesus Christ!!

>Okay... so as women keep aborting these unwanted children... what if one of these children was destined to cure cancer? or AIDS? or perhaps once and for all solve the problem and deliver an alternative fuel source. It's almost as if you've abandoned hope in these young children assuming they're all just worthless "burdens"

It's not about 'recommending' anything. We wouldn't tell anybody to get an abortion. The point is that they should have a choice.

Also, cut the destiny thing, you can't use it as an argument until you prove destiny.

EDIT:
Nsendalin said the exact same thing. Oops.

Points so nice we made them twice!

*shoots self for bad joke*

Points so nice we made them twice!

*shoots self for bad joke*
*shoots self for sheer hell of it*

*shoots self for bad joke* *shoots self for sheer hell of it*
*shoots them both so they will stop shooting themselves*

*shoots them both so they will stop shooting themselves*
*takes a drag off the DMT pipe*
I will shoot you back with my mind bullets!
The machine elves will hold you down, cause I'm not a great shot.
Fucking spiders keep getting in my line of site! Fuck!

*takes a drag off the DMT pipe*
I will shoot you back with my mind bullets!
The machine elves will hold you down, cause I'm not a great shot.
Fucking spiders keep getting in my line of site! Fuck!
Riiiiiiiiiiiight

Riiiiiiiiiiiight
No, wrong.
Now stop letting your head drift off, I can't line up my sights on it when it keeps jiggling like that.

No, wrong.
Now stop letting your head drift off, I can't line up my sights on it when it keeps jiggling like that.
steps away slowly

steps away slowly
AGGGGHHHH!
FUCKING SPIDERS!

Ugh...not ANOTHER right-wing hypocrite, once you've raised 2 children on minimum wage I'd be more than interested to hear your views on abortion, until then shut up and go read your bible Billy Bob.

Ugh...not ANOTHER right-wing hypocrite, once you've raised 2 children on minimum wage I'd be more than interested to hear your views on abortion, until then shut up and go read your bible Billy Bob.
Whoa, dude, I though you were talking to me for a sec.
:p

AGGGGHHHH!
FUCKING SPIDERS!
watches Neo-Anarchists collapse on the floor in a seizure

watches Neo-Anarchists collapse on the floor in a seizure
runs away

I have difficulty seeing how anyone can be anything but pro-choice. Not saying that I'm fanatically against prolifers or anything like that, but I simply can't see what their getting at.

runs away
*manages to struggle to her feet*
Why are we running?
*bolts in a random direction*
*stops dead upon hitting a wall*

*manages to struggle to her feet*
Why are we running?
*bolts in a random direction*
*stops dead upon hitting a wall*
goes over and helps her up

*comes to, pokes bodies with sticks*

Thats right. Our beloved country of America is running a genocide program similar to Hitlers. Its victims? Innocent children. Every day countless innocent babies without a single sin are being massacred by SS doctors and criminal whores who order them to do it. This is cleverly disguised as a "choice." Yeah, it is a "choice." A choice to murder. I can't see how anyone would want to allow this "choice." Abortion is the worst thing to happen to this country. I think that if there is an 100% chance the mother will die if she has the baby an abortion is acceptable, but anything else is barbaric murder that should be made illegal. Including rape and incest. A child should not have to be killed for the wrongs of the mother or father. Abortion has claimed over 30 million children. These stupid whores who can't control themselves decide to act immoraly and then when they get pregnant decide to have their baby butchered. Its pure evil. And what has the government done about this? Not much until a good man like Bush got into office. President Bush has honorably tried to stop this, and has taken the first step toward ending this holocaust by banning partial-birth abortion, the evil procedure where the doctor yanks that baby halfway from the womb and then slams an icepick-like device into its spine, murdering the poor baby. Now we have to take the next step though, and ban all forms of abortion. I will not tolerate seeing millions of children die so some whore can get her way. Abortion is murder, plain and simple, and should be banned.

Actually you should be thrilled abortion is going on. Let's face it, since most of the people having abortions are stupid whores that don't adhere to basic Christian moral codes, what are we as a society getting rid of? About 30 million rugrats who would grow up with a similar distaste for God, Country and the American way.

We are talking about liberals, libertarians, and pinko Democrats exterminating their own! They are losing votes to the tune of over 1,000,000 PER YEAR! Imagine if Gore had another 1,000,000 votes or Kerry another 5,000,000 votes. Then where would America be? :rolleyes:

Now there's an arguement to short out some people :D

By the way, Commando2. That was a brilliant piece of social commentary, especially considering that America has about 11000 murders a year (yes, I know I got that statistic from Michael Moore, but it's probably more accurate than what this guy's saying). Who gives a crap about adults dieing, eh?
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/totalstab.htm Given a population of 230 million and a rate of 5.5 per 100,000 that works out to about 12,650 murders in the US in 2002.

Fuck, the thread's getting back on topic!
Am I gonna have to come over there and shoot you up with LSD myself?

Sex education is wrong. Abstinence only education is the way to go. All sex education does is promote immoral behavior.
Why is that? Ignorance trumps awareness? Let's assume we do it your way. What about the natural human impulse? Will ignorance prevent pregnancy?

The death penalty is not the only way to punish these crimes. Lock them up for life. State-sponsored murder still breaks the "Thou shall not murder" commandment.
I'm in favor of locking them up for life in solitary in a specially designed facility somewhere in northern Alaska.

Ooh, sex ed classes which do practical technique as well as theory!
No, I disagree with those approaches. They go past liberal out into encouragement.

Essential information regarding STD transmission and pregnancy encouraging responsible behavior including abstinence is sensible.

The bible supports killing as a punishment a multiple amount of times. However, the commandment states that people shouldn’t kill other people as a rule. If you break that rule you shall be punished.

"Whoever sheds the blood of man,

by man shall his blood be shed;

for in the image of God

has God made man.
Genesis 9:6
If you are going to quote the Bible then have the respect for it to get what it says right. It wasn't originally written in English. Moses, Jesus, et al never spoke a word of English.The English versions are filled with poorly chosen word translations.

If you research the Hebrew word for kill as in, "Thou shalt not kill" in Exodus 20:13 is ratsach. You'll find it means murder. It is not harag, which means to slay or zabach which, with several others, means to slaughter animals. It is certainly not muth which means to put to death - as in execution.

Now you can intelligently argue your point.

But that quote is in Genesis. Jesus himself preached forgiveness. I'm not saying that murderers should be unpunished, but I would probably go with what the son of God says.
Jesus preached forgiveness where there is a true remorsefullness. That frees the individual from their past mistakes and frees the one forgiving from the burden of carrying the ill will.

He never meant to forgive those who revel in their moral turpitude. This error in doctrine is corrected a number of times in the letters of Paul.

Why am I only seeing posts by SHL here?

O_O

Most of which die in four main cities, LA, DC, NY, and CHI. Said cities have strict gun control or have outlawed it altogether. DC spends the most per capita in it's public schools and yet has some of the worst. All four cities at this point can be considered as the effects of the Democratic party's social engineering techniques and how they fail miserably. ;)
The failure of these initiatives is because they missed out on one concept - responsible accountability. The failure to insert accountability and short term help to those who are capable but situationally indisposed has been the most paternalistic, demeaning and racist aspect of the liberal approach. It has served to create a new slavery.

The need for better schools, food programs and other reasonable aid remains undiminished but responsible accountability on the part of the individual is essential. That is the path to liberation.

Lunatic? The left: saving murderers on death row while killing babies for 40 years and still going strong.
Lessie. Innocent babies v. convicted murderers. Yeah, you're right, there's no difference.

:rolleyes:

Fact is: this is NOT the perfect world! This is what we make it, and apparently we decided to make a mess of it. We have no limitless resources, there is starvation we forum visitors don't know about, rape happens on all levels everywhere, disasters strike us from time to time, we piss on each other's graves and morality is far sought.
If it weren't for stupid intollerance and dogmatic brainwashing this world would be so much nicer.
This is what we make it, and apparently we decided to make a mess of it. This is the only part of the above I disagree with. You didn't choose it & neither did I. The "I'm right and anyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong." crowd that screw things up.

Whoa, now the death penalty.

The death penalty has no rational grounds.

Briefly:

It cannot logically deter crime because:
a)In a crime of passion, the perp isn't going to stop and think about it... "oh, no, if i kill this person i'll fry"
Long before the moment when passions have gone past simmering to boiling over is when the deterrent effect has a chance. When the homicide is in the ideation phase that is when the voice can click in with, "He/She is just not worth it." It is at this point that murder can be averted. We'll never know how many times it has worked just like this as there are no crime statistics to point to since the potential murder was averted.

b)If the person is intent on killing someone, he will do it... if he is a sociopath, he will not give a rat's ass about anyone else -- the world is his playground -- and will do as he pleases. If the person is not a sociopath but is nonetheless intent on the killing, he will likely have planned it out so that he won't get caught.

Also, people have been wrongfully killed; in cases with lots of circumstantial evidence, HOW can they be sure they've got the right guy?
Life imprisonment costs less. It does just as good a job of keeping murderers off the streets. And you don't have to wonder if the wrong person was executed.

I agree with a sentance of life without parole for the incorrigable such as sociopaths, rapists, child molesters, etc. In a special facility located in the Arctic Circle. Alaska could use the employment & it is more cost effective.

You could just put all this in one post, you know.

Dewat,
The situation you present me with is horribly sad. However I will not allow euthanasia. The doctor can use any kind of pain killer he wants, but killing is out of the question. I don't have the heart to pull the plug on anyone, especially my beloved family.

snip
You are of course speaking from experience? In this digital world we get impressions of people from what they write. If you present scenarios and draw conclusions that is common to a child it is hardly the readers fault that they believe they are either dealing with a child or someone whose intellectual and emotional development suggests arrest. Assuming a child is giving the other individual the benefits of the doubt.

Funny, I don't think my mother would want euthansia. Who am I to say she should get it? And embryonic stem cell research hasn't helped one person. If it can be proven to help people then maybe I'll change my mind. And ps, it has been recently discovered that other stem cells might be able to be changed so thy can work as embryonic stem cells.
Say what you will now. Life is generally not so accomodating. You may one day be faced with such a choice and you will be the only one who can make the decision. It is a horrible position to be in. You may have to decide to pull the plug on someone you love deeply or watch them suffer horribly. It is not that uncommon a situation. Good luck when it's your turn.

Say what you will now. Life is generally not so accomodating. You may one day be faced with such a choice and you will be the only one who can make the decision. It is a horrible position to be in. You may have to decide to pull the plug on someone you love deeply or watch them suffer horribly. It is not that uncommon a situation. Good luck when it's your turn.
You know very well Command is going to retain his all mighty and self-righteous pius psotion on this and deny that he would pull the plug. I suggest you save your breath. You make a good argument, SHL, but this guy is daft as the day is long.

Never mind the fact that people have been having sex out of wedlock since there were people.

Basically our friend is saying is that if everybody was the same as him, the world would be better.....
What are you trying to do? Give away the basis fo my plan for world peas?

:p

Why am I only seeing posts by SHL here?

O_O
I was up late & was catching up . . . Here come some more . . . :gundge:

You could just put all this in one post, you know.
Are you getting testy because we don't agree or do you also want to run the forum according to your lights?

They are seperate responses to seperate posts. You have your style I have mine.


Next case . . .

Are you getting testy because we don't agree or do you also want to run the forum according to your lights?

They are seperate responses to seperate posts. You have your style I have mine.


Next case . . .

No, I share your views. I guess if you do lots of separate posts it's easier for people to digest. I must admit that I wouldn't read a gigantic uber post.

You know very well Command is going to retain his all mighty and self-righteous pius psotion on this and deny that he would pull the plug. I suggest you save your breath. You make a good argument, SHL, but this guy is daft as the day is long.
Who knows what seeds of reason can be planted. Having had the experience and having it rip me to shreads when I had to do the unthinkable I feel a strong need to caution those who deal with hypothetical future actions & choices. The fact is we do not know how we'll behave or what will come to mind in an event.

No, I share your views. I guess if you do lots of separate posts it's easier for people to digest. I must admit that I wouldn't read a gigantic uber post.
Perhaps I misunderstood your comment. Peace !

Technically we could have. Abortions did happen, although they were very rare and, for the most part, illegal. Sometime in the 1950's Senator Barry Goldwater arranged for his daughter to have an abortion, although it was highly illegal at the time.
Abortions were legal in some European countries at that time. So the well to do had an out. Only the poor & working class were forced to turn out more drones.

You're a christian, right? Well, if you were, you'd probably believe the baby is guilty of original sin, the sin we all have according to mainstream Christianity.

Catholics believe babies go to Purgatory. Which is sort of a made up place, but so is heaven and hell. Anyway, Protestants believe babies just go to heaven. Oh, so now they deserve to go to Hell because they were "Murdered", but I digress...

Babies aren't people until like the 6-8 month period.
Really? When was the last time you looked at a sonogram of a baby in the first trimester?

There are more like you :)
I am one of them
I wouldn't be so smug. A fraction of a percentage point in an election doesn't make it a referendum on abortion. If such a referendum were to be held I think you would be surprised to see maternal choice win out.

Whats wrong with people dying? Well it goes against my lord Jesus Christs message. As for those who do not share my faith, most everyone can agree that everyone deserves a chance at life. Of course, for serial killers, child molesters, and terrorists, I think we have the right to execute them.

By executing criminals, you are basicly 'killing' the children they might have later, and their children's, children, and their chilren...
Yes, murder is usually bad, as you might be one of the people getting murdered. But preventing a person from comming into existance isn't the same as murdering them. Abortion before the brain is developed is just preventing a person from comming into existance. If this was murder, then not having sex right now is also murder, as you are preventing someone from being concieved.

[QUOTE=Illich Jackal]By executing criminals, you are basicly 'killing' the children they might have later, and their children's, children, and their chilren... QUOTE]

save your breath jackal, you can't reason/explain things to people like commando. let them live in their pro life pro god we (men) are right and mothers are wrong.

i doubt he's even heard of the gospel of jesus christ. or the gnostic gospels.

SNIP
First off, unlike Hitler's program, they DO have the CHOICE of aborting their FETUS(it is NOT a baby. Get your vocabulary right. Heck, most abortions occur before it's even techincally an organism!). Second, it is not targeted at any ethnic group. Third, the feti cannot feel fear, pain, or suffer during an abortion, VERY different than Hitler's victims, which would have been fearing their lives every minute, and in pain and suffering while they died. Fourth, I can name quite a few thigns worse than abortion. Slavery comes to mind.

If it is a fetus and not a baby until born shouldn't the woman be called a host not a mother. A mother is a woman that brings a baby to full term and delivers the child.

"Feti" have shown reaction to stimulus as early as six weeks. Since fear, pain and the resultant suffering are autonomic it is fair to say that your common supposition is a myth propagated to comfort those who choose abortion.

It's not murder. Murder is illegal. Abortion is not(thankfully). Not allowing abortion in cases of rape & incest is pure evil. It tortures the mother because SHE is the one who has to carry the baby(that she most likely does NOT want) to full term, and is stuck either supporting it, or sticking it into an adoption home, where it has a SLIM chance of being adopted. One involves punishing the mother for something not her fault, the other involves punishing the child for something not its fault. And again, it's not a child. It's a fetus. If she killed it AFTER it was born, THEN she would have murdered(since killing your baby once it's born IS illegal) a child(since it's been born).

Murder is a legal term but it is also a moral one. The intentional taking of a life can be murder in a moral sense but not in a legal context.

SNIP


Beleive it or not, most people who get abortions AREN'T whores. Birth control can fail. Married couples can get the wife pregnent before either person is ready for a child. People can get raped, and get stuck with a child they don't want. Sure, there will be the occansional irresponsable person who uses abortion as "birth control"(techinically it's not, since birth control prevents pregnancy; hence the quotation mark), but using that logic, we should ban fast food because of the stupid people who eat too much of it, or ban cars because of bad drivers that get into accidents.

Not being ready for a child is a subjective judgement. It can equally be viewed as an opportunity for personal growth.

Misnomers aside Pregnancy control/birth control are not the same thing. Various methods that prevent pregnancy are not equivelant to ending a pregnancy that has taken place. If we are going to hold to commonly used terms as absolute then 'conception' is the beginning of life.

SNIP

[QUOTE=Chansu]See above on the whore thing. And again, feti=/=children. Murder=illegal, abortion=/=illegal, so abortion=/=murder. Also, would you rather have the "millions" of "children" that died be stuck in a bad life? Either being stuck with a mother that never cared for them, or stuck in an adoption home, where they will likely never be adopted, and never have any people they call their parents? I don't know about you, but aborting feti(which don't feel anything most of the time, since they're usually aborted before they even have a functioning nervous system) seems far more humane than bringing unwanted children into the world.

Oh, and the world has too many people already.

See comment above on host v. mother.

Using your arguments we should be encouraging if not mandating abortion throughout the third world, especially Africa. You have to allow for human development and growth. Many times what seems like a bad thing turns out to be a boon while what seems good at it's inception proves to be detrimental in the long run. Such is the adventure of life. To deny it is to deny life itself.

My reason for making the points I do is that I am very tired of simplistic, jargon filled arguments from both sides of the issue. It is much more complex and thorny than either side wants to see.

Left alone the "fetus" would most likely develop to term and be born. Interfering with this process is not merely interrupting a 'thing' - it is interrupting a human life in progress.

Should abortion be legal? Should euthanasia be allowed? I believe in individual choice every time. By the same measure let's not fall into the refuge of idiots and the incompetant by using jargon and specious arguments to soften the truth of what we are talking about. If we're tough enough to end a life then we should be tough enough to recognize what it is we have decided to do.

I think anyone dying is horrible. Thats why I'm pro-life on numerous issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and embyronic stem cell research.


are you pro life enough to blow up an abortion clinic?

like bill hicks said - if your so 'pro-life' go protest outside a cemetary

then do you wanna join the mob?
Mob sounds good. Can we make it soon? I don't want his stupidity to become contagious and harm some real living children.

Mob sounds good. Can we make it soon? I don't want his stupidity to become contagious and harm some real living children.
counting you we have four, just a few more

If it is a fetus and not a baby until born shouldn't the woman be called a host not a mother. A mother is a woman that brings a baby to full term and delivers the child.

"Feti" have shown reaction to stimulus as early as six weeks. Since fear, pain and the resultant suffering are autonomic it is fair to say that your common supposition is a myth propagated to comfort those who choose abortion.



Murder is a legal term but it is also a moral one. The intentional taking of a life can be murder in a moral sense but not in a legal context.

SNIP




See comment above on host v. mother.

Using your arguments we should be encouraging if not mandating abortion throughout the third world, especially Africa. You have to allow for human development and growth. Many times what seems like a bad thing turns out to be a boon while what seems good at it's inception proves to be detrimental in the long run. Such is the adventure of life. To deny it is to deny life itself.

My reason for making the points I do is that I am very tired of simplistic, jargon filled arguments from both sides of the issue. It is much more complex and thorny than either side wants to see.

Left alone the "fetus" would most likely develop to term and be born. Interfering with this process is not merely interrupting a 'thing' - it is interrupting a human life in progress.

Should abortion be legal? Should euthanasia be allowed? I believe in individual choice every time. By the same measure let's not fall into the refuge of idiots and the incompetant by using jargon and specious arguments to soften the truth of what we are talking about. If we're tough enough to end a life then we should be tough enough to recognize what it is we have decided to do.

surely the term mother would still apply? why not - its pure semantics no matter when the 'life' starts, either at conception or birth or somewhere between, the host who carries the infant, and gives birth to it is its mother. thats what a mother is. changing the definition of the fetus/child doesn't necessarily affect the definition of mother. regarding fear and ain being autonomic - even if fear is a nervous reaction, the brain state that we know as fear is linked to consequence, one cannot simply be afraid - fear must have a subject. having never experienced life, and thewrefore never having experienced consequence a fetus could never be said to experience fear as we (actual humans) know it. to suggest otherwise is surely ludicrous. as for murder as a moral term it is wholly ambiguous in that context - it needs to be qualified as a bad thing before it can be used as a moral term. that is why we use the law - it qualifies our 'moral' terms as bad. without law morality is completely subjective. thanks

Yes, I am opposed to the morning after pill. And I am opposed to an abortion before it can hear, because a future life is eliminated.
So we should also kill those evil murdering masturbators? Every woman who has had a menstrual period with out getting pregnant should at least get life in prison.

If a woman is pregnant before marriage it doesn't mean that she is a "whore", all it means is that she made a mistake, I'm sure everyone makes mistakes including the man who started this thread.
I think that it is a bit disrespectfull to people who actually are 'whores', because many don't have a choice.

I really don't feel comfortable with a bunch of old white men telling me what i can and cannot do with my own body. thanks :P

also, if you're so pro-life you would realize that bush is ANYTHING but. and he's the farthest from Jesus anyone could get. i'm sure starting his little 'war' for oil and killing very innocent people (american, arab, or otherwise) who are already conscious and very aware is really pro-life. And i'm sure with your reference to Hitler you realize that there are provisions in the patriot act where special camps can be established under martial law.

and thirdly, Jesus preached 'love thy enemy'. I'm sure he didn't mean 'slaughter thy enemy and all who assist him.' He (Bush) likes to talk Christian but really, if Jesus were here he'd be in a fit at all these moronic primates who are using His name to do awful, rotten things to people.

Yes, i think adoption is a nice alternative to abortion but i will defend my right to get rid of a baby if i get raped or knocked up. The government can dictate my life outside my body but they can keep their grubby hands outta my womb.

If a woman is pregnant before marriage it doesn't mean that she is a "whore", all it means is that she made a mistake, I'm sure everyone makes mistakes including the man who started this thread.
I think that it is a bit disrespectfull to people who actually are 'whores', because many don't have a choice.

any woman who sleeps with a man is a whore.

any man who sleeps with a woman is a rapist.

those are the rules.

live with it

any woman who sleeps with a man is a whore.

any man who sleeps with a woman is a rapist.

those are the rules.

live with it
Sounds like my militant lesbian pal.

counting you we have four, just a few more
Then count me in.
I'm always up for a good ol' unruly mob.

open a large baguette and spread with butter. grate one partial birth aborted foetus on top. add salad and your favourite cheese. garnish with 1st trimester aborted foetuses. grill lightly or until you cough.




ooops wrong thread

open a large baguette and spread with butter. grate one partial birth aborted foetus on top. add salad and your favourite cheese. garnish with 1st trimester aborted foetuses. grill lightly or until you cough.




ooops wrong thread

That is disgusting and in really really extremely poor taste. If I see anything like it in the future, I'll be mentioning it to the Mods...

*runs in*

Sorry I took a while! I now have the torches! can I have the four that have helped form the mob come over here? I have the three and torches. We just need to form a lynching mob now....

Seriously? I think Commando should admit defeat. This is one issue he is outnumbered on.

By the way, Commando2. That was a brilliant piece of social commentary, especially considering that America has about 11000 murders a year (yes, I know I got that statistic from Michael Moore, but it's probably more accurate than what this guy's saying). Who gives a crap about adults dieing, eh?

you wanna kow what the real problem is, its people like you that listen to dumbasses like moore, you wann know y there are so many murders in the U.S? its because normally countries with bigger population have more murders, i dont know sound pretty damn logical too me dont you think chicken pi. Im not saying that this person is correct but she does have a good point, why shuld the baby have to pay for the idiocy of the parents i dont think that abortion should be alowed at all however since this will never happen i doont think that they should be allowed unless theres a chance of the mother dying that at least 90% :sniper: