NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, let's think about it. Belgium. What's really the point? Half of you speak French, the other half speak German. Why not just be French and German?

And what's the deal with having a country that's so ridiculously FLAT? It's as bad as East Anglia, for Christ sake. You're just asking for floods, really, aren't you?

Belgium. Good for chocolate, but otherwise shite. :D

Well, let's think about it. Belgium. What's really the point? Half of you speak French, the other half speak German. Why not just be French and German?

I thought it was French and Dutch :?

Bah! Holland's just as bad. Knock down the dykes and just let the pair of them sink. If you're going to have a completely needless country that just pinches other people's languages, you could at least put it in a sensible place. If you're going to be generally seven feet below sea level, don't set up a country there. It's just silly.

Actually it's Flemish (which is practically the same as Dutch)

Bah! Holland's just as bad. Knock down the dykes and just let the pair of them sink. If you're going to have a completely needless country that just pinches other people's languages, you could at least put it in a sensible place. If you're going to be generally seven feet below sea level, don't set up a country there. It's just silly.
The correct term is lesbians, and I don't think Holland has any more of them than any other country.

The correct term is lesbians, and I don't think Holland has any more of them than any other country.

:lol: That joke never gets boring! :D

There's a flemish, walloon and german part in belgium

Well, let's think about it. Belgium. What's really the point? Half of you speak French, the other half speak German. Why not just be French and German?

And what's the deal with having a country that's so ridiculously FLAT? It's as bad as East Anglia, for Christ sake. You're just asking for floods, really, aren't you?

Belgium. Good for chocolate, but otherwise shite. :D

Belgium has the best beer of the world!

Belgium has the best beer of the world!

I wouldn't say necessarily the best. They have a nasty habit of putting fruit in it. I've have the odd glass of fantastic Belgian beer though...

The correct term is lesbians, and I don't think Holland has any more of them than any other country.

Well the Dutch do have a story about a boy who saved the country by sticking his finger in a dyke. And wouldn't it be more fun to knock them up?

OK, sorry for being so crass.

Seriously though. Not all of the Netherlands is below sea level.

Belgium has the best beer of the world!

Can't deny that :)

Belgium has the best beer of the world!
No England does.

Ahh England, where the beer is warm and the weather cold.

I wouldn't say necessarily the best. They have a nasty habit of putting fruit in it. I've have the odd glass of fantastic Belgian beer though...

I dont like it either, but i have some good news: Putting fruit in it is a French idea! There arent many Belgian beers that have fruit in it.

That and their crazy taxes is why we aint French, The Germans ... well... they speak German isnt that enough to refuse German citizenship?

No England does.

Ahh England, where the beer is warm and the weather cold.

Noo, the english are just Drunken hooligans. Belgian beer is the best!

Noo, the english are just Drunken hooligans. Belgian beer is the best!
No you cool your beer down man. IT should be warm and left to go partially flat before serving to get that proper English taste,.

Belgium isn't that bad. Holland is NOT useless.

In fact, if you want a useless country, go to either Luxembourg or Liechtenstein.

And saying that they steal other people's languages is not a good argument, as they didn't. They were just conquered by the Romans, just like the rest of West and Central Europe.

Belgium has the Spa - Francorchamps race circuit....good enough reason for there being a country there i reckon

Before Britain, the Dutch used to rule the waves. They have a long and rich culture, something that Americans just dont understand and dont care about.

Noo, the english are just Drunken hooligans. Belgian beer is the best!
I think you're wrong here. Ever have a beer from the Samuel Smith brewery? Their winter welcome ale is magnificent. Then again, what do I know about beer. I'm an American.

The correct term is lesbians, and I don't think Holland has any more of them than any other country.

I would imagine they have more lesbians than, say, Brunei.

hehe

though not necessarily as a % of all women

As a belgian, I say: Boo! Down with belgium and long live the Independent Flemish Capitalist Republic!

And we do have the best beer (Leffe :fluffle: ), fries and chocolate :cool:

Belgium isn't that bad. Holland is NOT useless.

In fact, if you want a useless country, go to either Luxembourg or Liechtenstein.

And saying that they steal other people's languages is not a good argument, as they didn't. They were just conquered by the Romans, just like the rest of West and Central Europe.

Someone took it a bit too seriously...

Someone took it a bit too seriously...
Well, I was considering posting my Belgium joke. But after seeing some of these responses I think I may hold my tongue as it were

Bah! Holland's just as bad. Knock down the dykes and just let the pair of them sink. If you're going to have a completely needless country that just pinches other people's languages, you could at least put it in a sensible place. If you're going to be generally seven feet below sea level, don't set up a country there. It's just silly.
ROFL.

Holland's highest point is a bit more than 300 metres above sea level :eek:

God I love this place :fluffle:

Screw Europe. Europe is like a whinny friend that starts a fight in a bar and then immedietly calls for help. How many wars do you need North America to come to to save your asses?

Someone took it a bit too seriously...

yeah

and

If Belgium/Holland were conquered by the Romans... why do they speak Germanic languages?

People of France, Spain/Portugal, Italy (well Italy was, more or less, Rome), Romania speak Latin-based languages... because the areas that became these countries all were under Roman control at one point or another.

Rome never controlled any land that far north. They battled the northern Germanic tribes, but did not conquer them (at least to my knowledge).

ROFL.

Holland's highest point is a bit more than 300 metres above sea level :eek:

God I love this place :fluffle:


Y'SEE!!! Even the mountains in Holland are shit!!

when has America saved Europe then?

Screw Europe. Europe is like a whinny friend that starts a fight in a bar and then immedietly calls for help. How many wars do you need North America to come to to save your asses?
Just the one. And you were willing to join in.

Screw Europe. Europe is like a whinny friend that starts a fight in a bar and then immedietly calls for help. How many wars do you need North America to come to to save your asses?
Here we go again. Winning friends and influencing people the retarded way.

Denmarks highest point is only 173 meters :)

I love Europe, especially the Netherlands. Belgium is cool too :)

I've never been to another continent so i don't love them nor hate them... yet.

yeah

and

If Belgium/Holland were conquered by the Romans... why do they speak Germanic languages?

People of France, Spain/Portugal, Italy (well Italy was, more or less, Rome), Romania speak Latin-based languages... because the areas that became these countries all were under Roman control at one point or another.

Rome never controlled any land that far north. They battled the northern Germanic tribes, but did not conquer them (at least to my knowledge).
Rome controlled land as far north as England. Learn some history.

Y'SEE!!! Even the mountains in Holland are shit!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Screw Europe. Europe is like a whinny friend that starts a fight in a bar and then immedietly calls for help. How many wars do you need North America to come to to save your asses?

One. You also decided to join another one when we'd nearly finished.

How many wars is North America going to start and then ask Europe to come and help tidy up afterwards? You're like a big useless idiot friend who starts a fight in a bar but is actually CRAP.

Denmarks highest point is only 173 meters :)

I love Europe, especially the Netherlands. Belgium is cool too :)

I've never been to another continent so i don't love them nor hate them... yet.
173 :eek:

ROFLMAO

Y'SEE!!! Even the mountains in Holland are shit!!
it's called a "hill"

Denmarks highest point is only 173 meters :)

I love Europe, especially the Netherlands. Belgium is cool too :)

I've never been to another continent so i don't love them nor hate them... yet.

Well, Denmark's shit too, then. Bann all countries with a highest point of less than 301 meters!!

Comedian Ross Noble's take on Belgium.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/comedy/rams/rngg_belgium.ram

Don't you people know that "Belgium" is a dirty word?!?!? :D

Can't deny that :)


Noooo, mexican beer is the best! Haha just kidding.

Belgium has the best beer of the world!

Sorry, that's Czech Republic, with Slovakia as a close second.

England has some ok stuff...

There's a flemish, walloon and german part in belgium

I'm sorry, I missed this earlier. WALLOON? What the hell is a WALLOON? Is that not just a really silly word for a turd? "Oh, I really miust nip and have a walloon.". Strangely fitting for Belgium, though.

And doesn't Flemish sound far too much like Phlegmish? Don't name languages after snot. Who want's to learn what basically equates to 'Bogieese". Bloody Belgians.

Before Britain, the Dutch used to rule the waves. They have a long and rich culture, something that Americans just dont understand and dont care about.

I am 50% Dutch and I have some British too. I may be American but I'm proud of my ancestry.

Well, Denmark's shit too, then. Bann all countries with a highest point of less than 301 meters!!

Good thing we have higher points(not just on Mountains :D).

when has America saved Europe then?

Ever heard of World War I and II?

I'm sorry, I missed this earlier. WALLOON? What the hell is a WALLOON? Is that not just a really silly word for a turd? "Oh, I really miust nip and have a walloon.". Strangely fitting for Belgium, though.

And doesn't Flemish sound far too much like Phlegmish? Don't name languages after snot. Who want's to learn what basically equates to 'Bogieese". Bloody Belgians.
I wonder why we translated it for you, We are 'Vlamingen uit Vlaanderen'

Oh wait you cant pronounce it :D :)

Ever heard of World War I and II?
Yep. But the US was unneeded in round one and joined in round two on their own volition because they were attacked.

Sorry, that's Czech Republic, with Slovakia as a close second.

England has some ok stuff...

Nonono, that is a conspiracy of people that cant brew beer, they are all jealous of our beer

Yep. But the US was unneeded in round one and joined in round two on their own volition because they were attacked.

:rolleyes:

Ever heard of World War I and II?

The US was not needed in WW1. You showed up at the end and then completely fouled up the treaty at the end. If you'd not been there, the terms would have been much stricter, and Germany wouldn't have been able to kick off the second one.

Then, to add insult to injury, after essentially being to blame for the German's ability to build the greatest army in the world, you won't join in until halfway through. AGAIN. And even then you only join in really because you'd just been attacked, rather than to come and save our arses or anything. And then you expect us to be enormously grateful.

Let's Ban the US as well.
:D

Nonono, that is a conspiracy of people that cant brew beer, they are all jealous of our beer

I worked for Interbrew, whom imports most all of the Belgian Ales and Beers into the US. The stuff is okay, but Belgium is not Pilsen. :)

The US was not needed in WW1. You showed up at the end and then completely fouled up the treaty at the end. If you'd not been there, the terms would have been much stricter, and Germany wouldn't have been able to kick off the second one.

Then, to add insult to injury, after essentially being to blame for the German's ability to build the greatest army in the world, you won't join in until halfway through. AGAIN. And even then you only join in really because you'd just been attacked, rather than to come and save our arses or anything. And then you expect us to be enormously grateful.

Let's Ban the US as well.
:D
Why don't we just ban everything?

:rolleyes:
Care to provide any proof that the US was intergral to allied victory in WWI or that the US joined WWII out of the goodness of their hearts?

Or are you content to argue via smily?

:fluffle:

I worked for Interbrew, whom imports most all of the Belgian Ales and Beers into the US. The stuff is okay, but Belgium is not Pilsen. :)
Any moron can make Pilsen. The great diversity of Belgian beers is what makes them so great

The US was not needed in WW1. You showed up at the end and then completely fouled up the treaty at the end. If you'd not been there, the terms would have been much stricter, and Germany wouldn't have been able to kick off the second one.
I don't think a stricter treaty would have stopped WWII.

Yep. But the US was unneeded in round one and joined in round two on their own volition because they were attacked.

Europe was pretty much in a stalement throughout all of WWI until the US came in to help.

Ur right, the US did not join until they were attacked but private industry and even the government provided aid to the allies beforehand (this was true in the Great War too).

Ahhh, the days of isolationism. One day I hope for the US government to return to worrying about just the US.

I wonder why we translated it for you, We are 'Vlamingen uit Vlaanderen'

Oh wait you cant pronounce it :D :)
Scheveningen

The US was not needed in WW1. You showed up at the end and then completely fouled up the treaty at the end. If you'd not been there, the terms would have been much stricter, and Germany wouldn't have been able to kick off the second one.

Then, to add insult to injury, after essentially being to blame for the German's ability to build the greatest army in the world, you won't join in until halfway through. AGAIN. And even then you only join in really because you'd just been attacked, rather than to come and save our arses or anything. And then you expect us to be enormously grateful.

Let's Ban the US as well.
:D

What a load.

Had the US not "shown up", Germany would never had surrendered. Do you have *any* concept how much food and material the US was getting to the Allies? Had the US not been there, the final German push *WOULD* have taken Paris. Simple as that.

England and France gave away Czechoslovakia. Didn't raise a finger when Germany reoccupied the Rhur. And failed to keep their own militaries from being underpowered, obsolete messes. And all that is the US's fault? Riiiiight. :headbang:

Any moron can make Pilsen. The great diversity of Belgian beers is what makes them so great

Ah, finally someone with some experience in this matter

Ur right, the US did not join until they were attacked but private industry and even the government provided aid to the allies beforehand (this was true in the Great War too).



Yeah, but you were also selling weapons and supplies to germany before 1941, not that noble eh ? :rolleyes:

I don't think a stricter treaty would have stopped WWII.

Actually the treaty was so strict on Germany that it caused their economy to suffer greatly giving Hitler an entrance.

Italy was ignored during the Treaty of Versailles and felt animosity towards the allies as a result.

This is the fault of all the Allies along with the US.

Belgium rocks. They gave the world French Fries!

Any moron can make Pilsen. The great diversity of Belgian beers is what makes them so great

Have you ever *been* to Prague?

I've drunked considerable quantities of beer in Vienna, Prague, Bratislava, Krakow, Nuremburg, Luxembourg, London, and Antwerp.

Belgium is good. But it's not the best, IMHO.

Europe was pretty much in a stalement throughout all of WWI until the US came in to help.

Germany was literally being starved into defeat. The Royal navy blockaded Germany from the sea and stopped anymore food, munitions etc coming in. Which was on of the reasons Hitler wanted to build up such a good navy and why he put a lot of emphasis on making ersatz substances. There was also civil strife, keft wing groups were active in Germany at the time causing problems. And this is ignoring the 'flu epidemic at the time. There was a stalemate. But Germany would have lost anyway, in about the same amount of time. Soldiers from the Empire, especially the ANZAC were far more important than the Americans were.

Ur right, the US did not join until they were attacked but private industry and even the government provided aid to the allies beforehand (this was true in the Great War too).

You mean they sold arms? Gave loans etc? So. The US isn't the only country to ever do this.

What a load.

Had the US not "shown up", Germany would never had surrendered. Do you have *any* concept how much food and material the US was getting to the Allies? Had the US not been there, the final German push *WOULD* have taken Paris. Simple as that.

England and France gave away Czechoslovakia. Didn't raise a finger when Germany reoccupied the Rhur. And failed to keep their own militaries from being underpowered, obsolete messes. And all that is the US's fault? Riiiiight. :headbang:

Well, the British Expeditionary Force was the only fully mecanized force in the world(at that moment) you know, i would not call them an obsolete mess (Matilda's were among the best tanks in those days)
France had (in exception of its infantry weapons) all the equipment it required to stop the Germans, they just lacked the right theory for this force to be effective.

Indeed they gave away Chzechoslovakia but Chamberlain was replaced by Churchill because of this fault. The US was just lucky that there was an Ocean between them and Europe or they would have been defeated in 1940 too.

I don't think a stricter treaty would have stopped WWII.

Indeed, had the English, French and Italians not been so gung ho to demand reparations (much to the dismay of Wilson) and worked out a BETTER treaty, there would have been no need for a second war. Hitler could have stayed a minor political figure after the Munich Putsch, same as Ludendorf.

One. You also decided to join another one when we'd nearly finished.

How many wars is North America going to start and then ask Europe to come and help tidy up afterwards? You're like a big useless idiot friend who starts a fight in a bar but is actually CRAP.

Hey asshole I'm from Canada. We havn't started any wars but wind up having to help you clowns out every so often.

Have you ever *been* to Prague?

I've drunked considerable quantities of beer in Vienna, Prague, Bratislava, Krakow, Nuremburg, Luxembourg, London, and Antwerp.

Belgium is good. But it's not the best, IMHO.
Actually, I have been there twice. The beer is good, but not the best.

My own favorite beer is Guinness (not Guinness Export, that beer sucks)




And now for an agnostic point of view: I can't decide, it's a matter of tast I guess :fluffle:

Yeah, but you were also selling weapons and supplies to germany before 1941, not that noble eh ? :rolleyes:

There was no true 'good guy' and 'bad guy' in Europe before WWII. WWI was all about arms races and ally supporting.

Hey asshole I'm from Canada. We havn't started any wars but wind up having to help you clowns out every so often.
Thank you for not being a US citizen.

The US was just lucky that there was an Ocean between them and Europe or they would have been defeated in 1940 too.

No, impossible. Germany should have had Great Britain first, before it could even attempt to attack the USA. Besides they had no long range bombers, so if they would try to bomb american cities, the planes would have fell in the water.

America had radarsystem i presume, so any large-scale invasion fleet would have been picked up and intercepted easily.

Germany was literally being starved into defeat. The Royal navy blockaded Germany from the sea and stopped anymore food, munitions etc coming in. Which was on of the reasons Hitler wanted to build up such a good navy and why he put a lot of emphasis on making ersatz substances. There was also civil strife, keft wing groups were active in Germany at the time causing problems. And this is ignoring the 'flu epidemic at the time. There was a stalemate. But Germany would have lost anyway, in about the same amount of time. Soldiers from the Empire, especially the ANZAC were far more important than the Americans were.



You mean they sold arms? Gave loans etc? So. The US isn't the only country to ever do this.

Few countries give allies welfare. I don't get ur point.

Thank you for not being a US citizen.

Oh believe me I'm far more thankful than you are. Thank-you for staying in the USA. Now if you would stop fucking with other governments and mind your own business we'd all be much happier.

No, impossible. Germany should have had Great Britain first, before it could even attempt to attack the USA. Besides they had no long range bombers, so if they would try to bomb american cities, the planes would have fell in the water.

America had radarsystem i presume, so any large-scale invasion fleet would have been picked up and intercepted easily.

Read my post again and notice the part about there not being an ocean

Actually the treaty was so strict on Germany that it caused their economy to suffer greatly giving Hitler an entrance.

That's my point

Italy was ignored during the Treaty of Versailles and felt animosity towards the allies as a result.

Of course it was. I cannot think of anyreason how it should have been able to benefit.

However you do realise it gained land in the Treaty of St. Germain?

Had the US not "shown up", Germany would never had surrendered. Do you have *any* concept how much food and material the US was getting to the Allies? Had the US not been there, the final German push *WOULD* have taken Paris. Simple as that.

Yes it would have.

Supplying food does not mean anything. That happens in peace too.

And the final German push was too little too late.

I'm sorry, I missed this earlier. WALLOON? What the hell is a WALLOON? Is that not just a really silly word for a turd? "Oh, I really miust nip and have a walloon.". Strangely fitting for Belgium, though.

And doesn't Flemish sound far too much like Phlegmish? Don't name languages after snot. Who want's to learn what basically equates to 'Bogieese". Bloody Belgians.
American tourists used to speak just like that...in Amsterdam,in Paris, London, Rome, !
They used to make fun of Britons, Italianos, Frenchies, etc etc...

now they wanna keep a "low profile" :)

Read my post again and notice the part about there not being an ocean


Srry, my bad :(

Few countries give allies welfare. I don't get ur point.
I cannot think of any other countries that could.

Well, the British Expeditionary Force was the only fully mecanized force in the world(at that moment) you know, i would not call them an obsolete mess (Matilda's were among the best tanks in those days)
France had (in exception of its infantry weapons) all the equipment it required to stop the Germans, they just lacked the right theory for this force to be effective.

The BEF, was well equipped, granted. The RAF was a shambles and only barely won the Battle of Britain (with considerable help from Polish and other national fliers, plus American material).
The Matilda (I and II) were solid, but few.
The French fought WW1 again in 1940, and were a miserable failure. That they didn't even scuttle the fleet in the Med was criminal. At least the English had Dempsey and Monty. The French had DeGaulle, whom at best was mediocre and a political figurehead. And don't get me started on Petain. :(
I also don't understand Belgium, either: the father was so reliable in WW1, the son so useless in WW2...


Indeed they gave away Chzechoslovakia but Chamberlain was replaced by Churchill because of this fault. The US was just lucky that there was an Ocean between them and Europe or they would have been defeated in 1940 too.

And at that point, Czechoslovakia had the best tanks and machineguns in the world. All modern (M60, etc) MGs are based off the Czech original. And the Germany army took 1200 Czechoslovak tanks along for the invasion of the USSR.
Yep. And the UK is lucky we still had all those ships to sell. :)

, plus American material).


U can't be talking about fighter planes ??

Oh believe me I'm far more thankful than you are. Thank-you for staying in the USA. Now if you would stop fucking with other governments and mind your own business we'd all be much happier.
Bitch, bitch, bitch. Stop your whining and post something usefull.

BELGIUM! :fluffle:

Bitch, bitch, bitch. Stop your whining and post something usefull.
Can you say: "flaming"?

Bitch, bitch, bitch. Stop your whining and post something usefull.

Feel free to follow your own advice sparky.

Bitch, bitch, bitch. Stop your whining and post something usefull.


I believe u were the first to start whining

Can you say: "flaming"?
Ok, I'll cop to that being a flame, but I didn't turn this thread into flamebait by claiming my country "bailed out Europe in two wars" or implying that Europe owes us.

U can't be talking about fighter planes ??

Absolutely. Go read Churchill. When he became PM, he *freaked* because the RAF was so pitiful. UK arms spending from 1933-1938 was horribly low and misallocated.

And while the Spitfire was made famous, the Hurricane really won the Battle of Britain.

Ok, I'll cop to that being a flame, but I didn't turn this thread into flamebait by claiming my country "bailed out Europe in two wars" or implying that Europe owes us.


Did i said u done that ?

Absolutely. Go read Churchill. When he became PM, he *freaked* because the RAF was so pitiful. UK arms spending from 1933-1938 was horribly low and misallocated.

And while the Spitfire was made famous, the Hurricane really won the Battle of Britain.


Yeah but neither the spitfire or hurricane is an american fighter. So what material were u talking about ??

Ok, I'll cop to that being a flame, but I didn't turn this thread into flamebait by claiming my country "bailed out Europe in two wars" or implying that Europe owes us.
That okay.

Back to Belgium.


Manneken Pis is a real anticlimax

Read my post again and notice the part about there not being an ocean
wasup? :)


....so I have been sent here to destroy you [bzzzt]
And there's a million of us just like me
who cuss like me; who just don't give a fuck like me
who dress like me; walk, talk and act like me
and just might be the next best thing but not quite me!

The BEF, was well equipped, granted. The RAF was a shambles and only barely won the Battle of Britain (with considerable help from Polish and other national fliers, plus American material).
The Matilda (I and II) were solid, but few.
The French fought WW1 again in 1940, and were a miserable failure. That they didn't even scuttle the fleet in the Med was criminal. At least the English had Dempsey and Monty. The French had DeGaulle, whom at best was mediocre and a political figurehead. And don't get me started on Petain. :(
I also don't understand Belgium, either: the father was so reliable in WW1, the son so useless in WW2...
Albert I and Leopold II were the two best leaders our nation had, after them came only lackeys and clowns. But Leopold III could not have stopped the Germans, even if he wanted.
On French Generals i must note such officers as Leclerq de Hauteclocque and Lattre de Tassigny whom were both excellent tacticians(unfortunatly they lacked the rank to do anything). Degaulle was an ok officers that knew war was fought in a completely new manner, not quite evident in a region were conservative cavalryofficers run the show.
Dempsey was good at defensive maneuvers only and Monty possessed no real knowledge of modern warfare (whatever he knew, he learned from Rommel). If you really want to name British officers i'd say O'Connor or the Stillwell-dude, they were fine officers.
The RAF was underequiped but that was the result of the 'not a cent for the military' behaviour that existed in the entire world save a couple nations.



And at that point, Czechoslovakia had the best tanks and machineguns in the world. All modern (M60, etc) MGs are based off the Czech original. And the Germany army took 1200 Czechoslovak tanks along for the invasion of the USSR.
Yep. And the UK is lucky we still had all those ships to sell. :)

The best machinegun at that point was the MG34 i'm afraid, it was so good experts called it the rolls royce of the machineguns and said it was actually too good for military use. The best tank was the French SOMUA S-35, the best plane the Spitfire. True the Bren was based on a czech model but i wouldnt call that the best around

And what's the deal with having a country that's so ridiculously FLAT? It's as bad as East Anglia, for Christ sake. You're just asking for floods, really, aren't you?
The Ardennes aren't realy flat.

belgium is gr888 :D :D :D :D :D :D

The French fought WW1 again in 1940, and were a miserable failure. That they didn't even scuttle the fleet in the Med was criminal.
Not nearly as criminal as what the British did with it along with the sailors.

Belgium isn't that bad. Holland is NOT useless.

In fact, if you want a useless country, go to either Luxembourg or Liechtenstein.

Wow, wow down with the anti-Luxembourg, pall!

Albert I and Leopold II were the two best leaders our nation had, after them came only lackeys and clowns. But Leopold III could not have stopped the Germans, even if he wanted.
On French Generals i must note such officers as Leclerq de Hauteclocque and Lattre de Tassigny whom were both excellent tacticians (unfortunatly they lacked the rank to do anything). Degaulle was an ok officers that knew war was fought in a completely new manner, not quite evident in a region were conservative cavalryofficers run the show.
Dempsey was good at defensive maneuvers only and Monty possessed no real knowledge of modern warfare (whatever he knew, he learned from Rommel). If you really want to name British officers i'd say O'Connor or the Stillwell-dude, they were fine officers.
The RAF was underequiped but that was the result of the 'not a cent for the military' behaviour that existed in the entire world save a couple nations.


I would have to disagree w/ Leopold III. Had he not just folded, France might well have held out, or at least held out longer. By facilitating the Blitzkrieg, Leopold made Hitler's work much easier.

I'd agree with the rest of your assessments, we're certainly in agreement there.


The best machinegun at that point was the MG34 i'm afraid, it was so good experts called it the rolls royce of the machineguns and said it was actually too good for military use. The best tank was the French SOMUA S-35, the best plane the Spitfire. True the Bren was based on a czech model but i wouldnt call that the best around

Ah, but it was supersceded by the MG42, which is what I had in mind. My point was more that by allowing Czechoslovakia to fall, the allies helped Germany out a LOT.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=436982
http://www.wwiitechpubs.info/barrack/inf-deutschland/inf-de-mg-mg34-mg42/inf-de-mg-mg34-mg42-ftr.html

The first link has a great picture. The second pretty much puts up a good history of the MG line.

Remember I said, "up to that point". :)

I'm generally against doing "best ofs", if only because you'd really have to do it year-by-year. I mean, you can't compare a Matilda I vs. Tiger.

Not nearly as criminal as what the British did with it along with the sailors.

You're right. Much better that the French put on new hats and attack the British first. [/sarcasm]

Yeah but neither the spitfire or hurricane is an american fighter. So what material were u talking about ??

Where'd you reckon the aluminum, bullets and fuel were coming from?

One day I hope for the US government to return to worrying about just the US.

The whole world is hoping for this moment.

I worked for Interbrew, whom imports most all of the Belgian Ales and Beers into the US. The stuff is okay, but Belgium is not Pilsen. :)

The beers they export aren't the best ones. You should come to Belgium and taste the good ones ;).

I know a bar in Ghent where they serve about 150 different kinds of Belgian beers ;)

I would have to disagree w/ Leopold III. Had he not just folded, France might well have held out, or at least held out longer. By facilitating the Blitzkrieg, Leopold made Hitler's work much easier.

I'd agree with the rest of your assessments, we're certainly in agreement there.

I'm afraid i have to disagree with you here. The German army raced through the ardennes and cut the main French, Dutch and Belgian armies off from the French homeland. Surrounded and under fire from the Luftwaffe, it was not possible for them to make any move. They would have run out of ammo and supplies in no time, in other words: they were useless for the rest of the campaign and would have been massacred by Von Rundstedts troops moving trough the Low countries.

Do you know, I never expected this to turn into a who-needed-who-more-in-the-war row.

First up, if you think the treaty of Versilles was too harsh, you should have seen what the French wanted to do to the Germans. They would have split it back up into warring princedoms again.

Wilson stopped the other Allies from being as harsh as they wanted to be, and it was because he was at the table that the final result was neither one thing nor'tother. It wasn't harsh enough to cripple Germany properly, but it was too harsh to be seen as 'forgive and forget'. THAT is how Germany ended up falling apart; it's economy was fucked by the war, but the treaty didn't fuck the rest of the country.

I either would have gone for something a little less harsh, but which limited their military horrendously, or something like the way we did it at the end of WW2. The winners all grab a chunk to look after, and sit there until Germany can behave itself properly.

I'd do this with Austria-Hungary, but then again they WERE effectively destroyed. Where was Wilson for them? They're vast empire was split up into possibly the most stupid selection of countries anyone could think of. Lets put the Czechz and the Slovaks in one nation! What a great idea. Yugoslavia! Classic. It's a bit like deciding 'Let's put the dogs in the same country as the cats. They should be able to live together in a politically satisfying harmony for the rest of eternity.'

And Austria didn't do anyone any harm afterward, except when they were absorbed by Germany. I hated those meddlesome Von Traps anyway.


As for other matters, Luxembourg may be crap, but there's one nation that outdoes all others in terms of sheer wankness: San Marino!

San Marino is a small hill in Italy. It's surronded on ALL sides by, um, Italy. It's only 60 sq. kilometers in size. WHY THE HELL ISN'T IT PART OF ITALY THEN?

The whole country is about a third of the size of Washington. Most of the population are in the football team. You could fit that same population into Wembley Stadium three times. And it has EIGHT major political parties, though in San Marino any party that gets more than about forty votes has a sizable majority.

So, can anyone tell me please, WHAT IS THE POINT OF SAN MARINO!?!?!?!?! :)

Wilson stopped the other Allies from being as harsh as they wanted to be, and it was because he was at the table that the final result was neither one thing nor'tother. It wasn't harsh enough to cripple Germany properly, but it was too harsh to be seen as 'forgive and forget'. THAT is how Germany ended up falling apart; it's economy was fucked by the war, but the treaty didn't fuck the rest of the country.
Exept for, the ore from Alsace Lorraine. (The French stole it under Louis IVX)
Danzig suddenly beeing a "free" city. Something they never wanted to be. The rest of Western Prussia given to Poland. The economical most valuable part of Silesia torn away and given to Poland. Memel land and it's port given to Lithuania. Britain, France and Belgium grabbing the German colonies. 900 billion Reichsmark in repairs. The Ruhr area beeing occupied and demilitarized. And Germany had to pay for the occupation. Having to take the entire blame for the war. Not allowed to research planes, tanks, U boats etc....Be it for military application or civilian. The military limited to 100,000 men. leaving it pretty much defenseless.

Exept for, the ore from Alsace Lorraine. (The French stole it under Louis IVX)

They'd been stealing it from each other since long before Germany was a country. Germany had stolen it in the Franco-Prussian war. Prussia had never owned Alsace-Lorraine. And it was under legue of Nations control, though France got the ore. And it was to be given a plebicite after 15 years.

Danzig suddenly beeing a "free" city. Something they never wanted to be. Only as an aid to...

The rest of Western Prussia given to Poland. The Polish corridor. This was just a stupid idea, all round. And it was only a couple of hundred kilometers across.

The economical most valuable part of Silesia torn away and given to Poland. Under the same plebicite conditions as Alsace.

Memel land and it's port given to Lithuania. Not as bad as what happened to the Russians, and they were on our side.

Britain, France and Belgium grabbing the German colonies. All nine.

900 billion Reichsmark in repairs. About fair. They certainly caused that much damage to France.


The Ruhr area beeing occupied and demilitarized.
Occupied for a limited time. Coal fields remain under German control.


And Germany had to pay for the occupation.
And who else should have, pray?


Having to take the entire blame for the war. Gosh. This is as hard hitting as the condition that Germany could never form a union with Austria again. I bet they were really upset about this one.


Not allowed to research planes, tanks, U boats etc....Be it for military application or civilian.

Good one.

The military limited to 100,000 men. leaving it pretty much defenseless.
Apart from those 100,000 men. British army at the time numbered about 200,000 (peace time).

Should have been rendered COMPLETELY defenseless. Should have been ENTIRELY occupied by the Allied nations. East Prussia should have been entirely absorbed by Poland, if nothing else than because it looked so bloody stupid. Silesia should not have been under plebicite conditions.

Germany got off comparatively lightly. It lost 13% of it's territory, most of which had come from conquered territories, and 7 million population. It's harsh, but it's not THAT harsh. Austria-hungary was split into Austria and Hungary. Hungary lost 3/4 of her territory and 2/3 of her people, became entirely landlocked, and also had to pay reparations and limit it's army. Meanwhile, the Austrian portion of the Dual Monarchy was deprived of 3/4 of her former area and 3/4 of her people, also became landlocked and had the same military spending limitations.

Alternatively, the whole Polish corridor idea should have been ditched, the reparations should have been put on hold until Germany had recovered from the War a little, demilitarization but not occupation for the Rhineland, and the entire Alsace swap-til-plebicite thing just abandoned (since they were always going to vote to be re-germanified until Hitler came along and just took 'em).

The treaty couldn't make up it's mind. It wasn't as harsh at it wanted to be, but wasn't kind either. I particularly think the whole 'Admit the war was your fault' sums it up, really. It was very nasty in spirit, but not nasty enough in practice to cripple Germany as Austria or Hungary had been.

Been all through Belgium loved it. You guys in the UK, next time the Seacat runs those day trip specials get you ass to Dover. The chocolate shops in Oosten are the best and the the beer in the duty free is great. I remember they carried a berry flavoured beer with corked bottles for six pounds a case. Very tasty, not to mention the Stella!

Any of you ever take the midnight Chunnel quicky for French duty free?

Old news, man. Belgium isn't the crappest place in Europe now. It's been usurped. San Marino has the title of 'Most Shit Nation in Europe' now.

Shtest location is still, far and away, Hull. A city so foul we don't call it Kingston any more, because Hull sounds so much more appropriate.

The beers they export aren't the best ones. You should come to Belgium and taste the good ones ;).

I know a bar in Ghent where they serve about 150 different kinds of Belgian beers ;)

I've been to Antwerp. I agree: no beer's export is ever as good as on tap.

I think I've been to the same bar in Praha 3. Better beer, tho. :)

I'm afraid i have to disagree with you here. The German army raced through the ardennes and cut the main French, Dutch and Belgian armies off from the French homeland. Surrounded and under fire from the Luftwaffe, it was not possible for them to make any move. They would have run out of ammo and supplies in no time, in other words: they were useless for the rest of the campaign and would have been massacred by Von Rundstedts troops moving trough the Low countries.

And after the Germans invaded Poland, they weren't ready why?
They had MONTHS to prepare! There's no reasonable explaination as to why the French, English and Belgians didn't come up with another unified defense, as in the first war. Even with the Germans not attacking Russia first, this time they had MORE than 6 weeks (as opposed to the Von Schliefen plan in WW1).

Belgium has the best beer of the world!

Only a stupid ass that never goes abroad and swears by massproduction can deny that :) .

And after the Germans invaded Poland, they weren't ready why?
They had MONTHS to prepare! There's no reasonable explaination as to why the French, English and Belgians didn't come up with another unified defense, as in the first war. Even with the Germans not attacking Russia first, this time they had MORE than 6 weeks (as opposed to the Von Schliefen plan in WW1).

To be honest, I regarded that as a colossal tactics cock-up which forced Leopold III to step aside. It doesn't matter what forced him to do it, it was just that he WAS forced to.

And, as far as I can tell, our policy on that whole thing was "Oh, but the Gerries came that way last time! They'll certainly not do THAT again, you mark my words. Oh bugger, they've done it again.".

The whole world is hoping for this moment.

And we keep hoping the world would start taking care of itself.

And we keep hoping the world would start taking care of itself.

Well, you know. We'd managed to get through 30,000 years of civilization up to that point, so perhaps you don't need to go around looking after us with warfare. Perhaps some form of environmental protection scheme, or signing the Kyoto agreement...

To be honest, I regarded that as a colossal tactics cock-up which forced Leopold III to step aside. It doesn't matter what forced him to do it, it was just that he WAS forced to.

And, as far as I can tell, our policy on that whole thing was "Oh, but the Gerries came that way last time! They'll certainly not do THAT again, you mark my words. Oh bugger, they've done it again.".

Leadership comes from the top. (Or else all you America & Bush bashers better STFU!!)
He could have done better. But then, so should have France. They NEVER should have built the Maginot Line and broken their mutual defense promise.

Sounds vaguely familiar. That's what the Polish say every time Germany gets together:
900-1000 AD: The Teutonic Knights gather in Gdansk, invade Poland.
Prussia forms: Austro-Prussian War, fought guess where?
WW1: After teaming up with Austria, Germany's Hinderberg and Ludendorf go bar hopping in ever-more-Eastern Polish taverns, bashing the Russians as they go. Austrian go camping in Zakopane and Silesia for old time's sake.
WW2: Germany unifies with Austria, takes over and breaks up Czechoslovakia, and sets about a chain of events that keeps Warsaw from being a tourist destination for 50 years.
1990: East and West Germany reunify. Poland gets nervous. Fifteen years on, still waiting for the shoe to drop.

To be honest, I regarded that as a colossal tactics cock-up which forced Leopold III to step aside. It doesn't matter what forced him to do it, it was just that he WAS forced to.

And, as far as I can tell, our policy on that whole thing was "Oh, but the Gerries came that way last time! They'll certainly not do THAT again, you mark my words. Oh bugger, they've done it again.".


I think you have some background about that, but I know that Markreich hasn't (like he proved here). Do you find it interesting to debate with ignorants about WWI&II with such ignorants that only have a propaganda objective (EU versus US)? Jezus go to some history sites to learn more about the topic. He is a loser when it comes to history and not worth your attention. (sory for the typos aso, english is only my 4th language).

Well, you know. We'd managed to get through 30,000 years of civilization up to that point, so perhaps you don't need to go around looking after us with warfare. Perhaps some form of environmental protection scheme, or signing the Kyoto agreement...

Hardly. Name me *one* nation that has survived 2000 years, let alone 30000. There isn't one. The only non-colonized nation on EARTH outside of Europe is Japan. And it's culture isn't 2000 years old. Nor is any European nation's either.

On balance, the world is much better off with the US than without it.

BTW:
Perhaps some form of stopping genocide. You know, like in... Jugoslavia. Or Rwanda. Or Sudan. Or Cambodia. Or under Nazi Germany. Or in Stalin's Russia. Or in Imperial Spain. :rolleyes:

Leadership comes from the top. (Or else all you America & Bush bashers better STFU!!)
He could have done better. But then, so should have France. They NEVER should have built the Maginot Line and broken their mutual defense promise.

Well, that's a bit unfair. France should have built the Maginot line. It's just they should have done it before the Franco-Prussian war, and avoided the most embarrasing defeat EVER.

I think you have some background about that, but I know that Markreich hasn't (like he proved here). Do you find it interesting to debate with ignorants about WWI&II with such ignorants that only have a propaganda objective (EU versus US)? Jezus go to some history sites to learn more about the topic. He is a loser when it comes to history and not worth your attention. (sory for the typos aso, english is only my 4th language).

Er, excuse me? Just because I have a different opinion than the person I'm debating, I'm an idiot?

BTW, please show me *where* I posted that I *EVER* debated the US vs the EU? My entire position is that ALL the allies needed each other!

PS- Watch the flames, my Italian friend.

Well, that's a bit unfair. France should have built the Maginot line. It's just they should have done it before the Franco-Prussian war, and avoided the most embarrasing defeat EVER.

When France started pouring money into the Maginot Line instead of into more tanks & planes, it became obvious that they meant to fight a defensive fight. This does not inspire allies (Poland, Czechoslovakia) that France would come to their aid. And indeed, no French fought in Poland or for Poland, though many Poles fought in the liberation of France.

Yes. In 1870, and even in 1914, it'd have been quite useful.

On balance, the world is much better off with the US than without it.
Only an American can believe that.


Perhaps some form of stopping genocide. You know, like in... Jugoslavia. Or Rwanda. Or Sudan. Or Cambodia. Or under Nazi Germany. Or in Stalin's Russia. Or in Imperial Spain. :rolleyes:
Get them redskins. Daddy needs some new scalps and squaws.

PS- Watch the flames, my Italian friend.

I am sorry when I hurt you, not what I wanted.

But I am not your "Italian Friend". Where did you get that? I only understand the language of Dante but don't speak it well. Are you such a example of people that easaly think that the other is from such nation or another?

Wow, I kike Italy, that is sure :)

I am sorry when I hurt you, not what I wanted.

But I am not your "Italian Friend". Where did you get that? I only understand the language of Dante but don't speak it well. Are you such a example of people that easaly think that the other is from such nation or another?

Wow, I kike Italy, that is sure :)

I assume that since you said English is your 4th language that it was unintentional. But I still dislike that you considered me ignorant on a topic that I have a Master's degree in.

I assumed by your name, "Via Ferrata"... it is in Cortina, Italy.
http://www.jagged-globe.co.uk/course/itinerary/ferrata+intro.html
Therefore, I assumed you were Italian. If you aren't, my mistake and I am sorry for assuming that.

Hey we were talking about Belgium, but Americans have to drag up the fucking war to turn the topic to America. Who give a rat's ass about the wars we're talking about beer and chocolate.

For Christ sakes, travel outside the fucking US. They have great beer in Belgium.

900-1000 AD: The Teutonic Knights gather in Gdansk, invade Poland.
The Teutonic Knights order first appeared in 1190 you history buff. And it was Duke Kasimir of Masovia that called them to Poland.:rolleyes:

Prussia forms: Austro-Prussian War, fought guess where?
In Gitschin, Bohemia and Königsgratz. Also Bohemia.

WW1: After teaming up with Austria, Germany's Hinderberg and Ludendorf go bar hopping in ever-more-Eastern Polish taverns, bashing the Russians as they go.
Kinda hard to pass it by when enemy forces are sitting there.
Austrian go camping in Zakopane and Silesia for old time's sake.
Now why would Austria try and invade Silesia? I don't imagine the Germans had found that amusing if their allies invade them.
WW2: Germany unifies with Austria, takes over and breaks up Czechoslovakia,
With consent of the Western allies.
and sets about a chain of events that keeps Warsaw from being a tourist destination for 50 years.
See above.

1990: East and West Germany reunify. Poland gets nervous. Fifteen years on, still waiting for the shoe to drop.
The Poles can screw things up just fine themselves. After years of massive German support to get in the EU.

Hardly. Name me *one* nation that has survived 2000 years, let alone 30000. There isn't one. The only non-colonized nation on EARTH outside of Europe is Japan. And it's culture isn't 2000 years old. Nor is any European nation's either.

Eygpt survived more than 2000 in one go once. Han China lasted 6000 years under various dynasties without falling. Byzantium, if you include the time when it was half of Rome, lasted 1,500.

On balance, the world is much better off with the US than without it.

True enough. But the US is in no position to go around pretending it's all morally high-and-mighty, or that it's trying to act in the best interests of anyone other than themselves. The US isn't trying to sort the world out at all, and has contributed to a fair whack of genocide (indirectly) itself. Just like the UK.

Perhaps some form of stopping genocide. You know, like in... Jugoslavia. Or Rwanda. Or Sudan. Or Cambodia. Or under Nazi Germany. Or in Stalin's Russia. Or in Imperial Spain. :rolleyes:

Or Haiti, where the US installed "Papa Doc" Duvalier, who's dynasty killed over 100,000 people in '59.

Or maybe the 15 attempts to unbalance the democracy in Laos, the failure of which led to more US bombs dropping on the nation than the US dropped in the whole of WW2.

Or the installation of Branco in Brazil, and the subsquent CIA training for his death-squads.

Maybe when the US put Suharto in power in Indonesia, so he could massarce 1 million of his people.

Pehaps Mobutu in the Congo, put their by a US-backed coup. Again.

Or the creation of a civil war in Angola, which results in 300,000 Angolans dying.

The illegal arming of the Contras.

The arming, training and support of a Mr S. Hussein, from 1980-1990

Any one of about fifty other examples.


The US should be part of the world, but it shouldn't pretend to be leading the world to freedom, democracy and lovelyness. OK?

As a climber, I took the name of this (easy and safe) old mountainsport. A sport from wich you can find lot of info by just googling it. It is (btw not my climbing style) the most easy and secure way to climb the Italian "Dolomiti" mountain range. It also goes back to WWI, the time when the first cables were placed in the fight between the Austria/Hungary empire and Italy.

And after the Germans invaded Poland, they weren't ready why?
They had MONTHS to prepare! There's no reasonable explaination as to why the French, English and Belgians didn't come up with another unified defense, as in the first war. Even with the Germans not attacking Russia first, this time they had MORE than 6 weeks (as opposed to the Von Schliefen plan in WW1).
The explanation is that they thought the fortress of Eben Emeal at the Belgian-German border would stop them. As the fortress was thought to be impregneble. In the end 80 German paratroopers captured it. Along with it's 1200 men garisson and all of their heavy weapons.

Only an American can believe that.

Get them redskins. Daddy needs some new scalps and squaws.

Are you aware that the population of Native Americans decreased 90 PERCENT from 1600 to 1700? All from diseases from the English, Spanish, French, Swedish and Dutch colonists that came to the New World.

I won't sit here and say that the US didn't fight wars with the Indians. I won't say that the Trail of Tears was right, nor the destruction of Western Tribes and the seizing of Oklahoma.

But by the same token, you can't tell me that Fascism was a good idea. That the Spanish Inquisition was even handed. Etc. All nations do good and bad things. No nation is perfect. Certainly America is not. But if you really think the world would be better off without the US... I don't know what to tell you. To me, it sounds no better than a guy I knew in college. He was Jewish, and hated all Germans outright. :(

Hey we were talking about Belgium, but Americans have to drag up the fucking war to turn the topic to America. Who give a rat's ass about the wars we're talking about beer and chocolate.

For Christ sakes, travel outside the fucking US. They have great beer in Belgium.

True, but Belgium still sucks. Couldn't they import a mountain or something? Or at least build roads as if they were going round hills. Driving through the country is the most boring experience ever.

Hey we were talking about Belgium, but Americans have to drag up the fucking war to turn the topic to America. Who give a rat's ass about the wars we're talking about beer and chocolate.

For Christ sakes, travel outside the fucking US. They have great beer in Belgium.

Westvleteren,Orval (nr 1), Westmalle Tripple, Vedett ( a "export" ), Gueze from Cantillon (superb when it is 15 years old, btw it is a organic beer) and Oud Beersel are my favorites. Super beers that can only be match with a Romanée Conti, Pétrus, Vegge Secillia Unico, Amarone Mazi, Opus One in the wine world. :cool:

Are you aware that the population of Native Americans decreased 90 PERCENT from 1600 to 1700? All from diseases from the English, Spanish, French, Swedish and Dutch colonists that came to the New World.
Yes I am. But the US took up where they left off. The last Indian massacre they commited was wounded knee I believe. And then they weren't even prepearing for war. Just trying to preserve their culture. Pass on their knowledge. And the government send troops and butchered them.


But by the same token, you can't tell me that Fascism was a good idea. That the Spanish Inquisition was even handed. Etc. All nations do good and bad things. No nation is perfect. Certainly America is not. But if you really think the world would be better off without the US... I don't know what to tell you. To me, it sounds no better than a guy I knew in college. He was Jewish, and hated all Germans outright. :(
Jews are a funny bunch. A friend of mine is dating an Israeli. And man does he like the weed. But that doesn't stop him from trying to convince us that this country sucks. But when we tell him israel sucks he get's all angry. And I think if the US would dissapear overnight even the Muslims would have a drink or two in celebration.

The best beer is bitter, which no-one apart from the British seem to understand.

Good bitter must be:

Just as foul regardless of temperature

Thick and custardy

Excitingly brown

Have the same calorie content as a small meal

Produce a thick scum across the top. This is a REAL head on a beer. Stop filling the top half of your pints with foam from lager.

Cause foul black slime to emerge from the anus when attempting to defacate.

Probably kill you

Look like someone else already drank it last week, but brought it back when they weren't satisfied.

And yet somehow taste so distinctive that you drink it anyway.

Yes I am. But the US took up where they left off. The last Indian massacre they commited was wounded knee I believe. And then they weren't even prepearing for war. Just trying to preserve their culture. Pass on their knowledge. And the government send troops and butchered them.

True. Fortunately, Germany never did anything like that. You know, try to eradicate an entire race. (Yes, I'm being sarcastic.) As I said in a previous post, no nation is perfect, nor innocent.


Jews are a funny bunch. A friend of mine is dating an Israeli. And man does he like the weed. But that doesn't stop him from trying to convince us that this country sucks. But when we tell him israel sucks he get's all angry. And I think if the US would dissapear overnight even the Muslims would have a drink or two in celebration.

I'd be more inclined to say that if the US stopped funding Israel, Israel would disappear overnight.

The explanation is that they thought the fortress of Eben Emeal at the Belgian-German border would stop them. As the fortress was thought to be impregneble. In the end 80 German paratroopers captured it. Along with it's 1200 men garisson and all of their heavy weapons.

Which is the unfortunate thinking that screwed up the Americans at Pearl Harbor, the Romans in the Teutoburger Wood, the English at Yorktown, the Germans at Charlevaux Mill... the list is endless. Never underestimate the opposition.

The Teutonic Knights order first appeared in 1190 you history buff. And it was Duke Kasimir of Masovia that called them to Poland.:rolleyes:

My apologies, wrong date on my part. It has been a long day.


In Gitschin, Bohemia and Königsgratz. Also Bohemia.

Yes, and was decided at the Battle of Sadowa (Koniggratz), in Silesia (Poland).


Kinda hard to pass it by when enemy forces are sitting there.
<snip>

With consent of the Western allies.
See above.


You do realize that I made these points to show how people assume things (vis a vis the bit about the "Germans not coming this way again" in Post #111) and that this was a bad idea?
I was not saying that ANYTHING Germany did was good or bad. Only that history has a way of repeating itself and that the Belgians should have been better prepared.


The Poles can screw things up just fine themselves. After years of massive German support to get in the EU.

Now that is funny! You're saying that Poland should automatically fall in line behind the Franco-Germanic policy line. Which is the exact thing most of the anti-American posters say is what America is doing wrong!!

True. Fortunately, Germany never did anything like that. You know, try to eradicate an entire race. (Yes, I'm being sarcastic.) As I said in a previous post, no nation is perfect, nor innocent.
Forutunate the Americans always seem to overlook their own genocides. Or simply claim that it weren't genocides. That way they can go through live thinking they never commited one and only stopped other "evil" nations.



I'd be more inclined to say that if the US stopped funding Israel, Israel would disappear overnight.
Yes. Bonus. Two birds with one stone.

Forutunate the Americans always seem to overlook their own genocides. Or simply claim that it weren't genocides. That way they can go through live thinking they never commited one and only stopped other "evil" nations.

Some Americans, yes. But I said in a previous post: of course we were culpable. And all nations have done that at some time or another.


Yes. Bonus. Two birds with one stone.

Glad to see we agree.

PS- I'm trying to reply to the other posts, but the forums keep timing out.

Yes, and was decided at the Battle of Sadowa (Koniggratz), in Silesia (Poland).
A: Königgrätz was and still is in Bohemia. Czech republic if you like.
B: Silesia today is Poland. Back then Silesia was a province of Prussia. And the Poles were the population minority.


I was not saying that ANYTHING Germany did was good or bad. Only that history has a way of repeating itself and that the Belgians should have been better prepared.
They were prepared. But untill then no one had used paratroopers to get obstacles, like an impregneble fortress, out of the way.



Now that is funny! You're saying that Poland should automatically fall in line behind the Franco-Germanic policy line. Which is the exact thing most of the anti-American posters say is what America is doing wrong!!
I didn't say anything like that. But demanding reparations from Germany the minute they became EU members, with heavy German support, is a good way to sour relations. How would they like it if Germany demands back it's eastern territories? I don't think they would be realy thrilled either.

Some Americans, yes. But I said in a previous post: of course we were culpable. And all nations have done that at some time or another.
Yet you managed to ignore that when you claimed that the US was the knight in shining armour who stops genocides. Rwanada, Darfur (I don't recall them doing much of anything in both cases) etc...



Glad to see we agree.
Oh? We do?

PS- I'm trying to reply to the other posts, but the forums keep timing out.
Same problem. Whats Myrth doing? Resurrecting the old slow server demon?

No England does.

Ahh England, where the beer is warm and the weather cold.



WARM beer???, :sniper: :mad: :headbang:

True, but Belgium still sucks. Couldn't they import a mountain or something? Or at least build roads as if they were going round hills. Driving through the country is the most boring experience ever.


Hey I used to love driveing the English country roads, I mean all the roads were laid out by wandering Romans and cows, they have some kick ass turns. A great country for a peppy car with a standard transmission. :D

I lived on the Hertsfordshire border with Essex, and yes the roads out that way are boreing and long, like the M25 without the endless back up. But I live in Florida now which is even flater than Essex or Belgium, and both had better beer. Many of the pubs out that way are microbreweries and have been that way since King George III and some from before that.

Man I mis England.

Eygpt survived more than 2000 in one go once. Han China lasted 6000 years under various dynasties without falling. Byzantium, if you include the time when it was half of Rome, lasted 1,500.

A nation that still exists, please. I assumed we were discussing the modern world and how America made it better or worse, yes? None of the 4 you mention has existed in hundreds of years.
Egypt since the founding of America alone has had three foreign rulers I can think of.


True enough. But the US is in no position to go around pretending it's all morally high-and-mighty, or that it's trying to act in the best interests of anyone other than themselves. The US isn't trying to sort the world out at all, and has contributed to a fair whack of genocide (indirectly) itself. Just like the UK.

I wasn't aware that we were. But I do believe that our best interests and the world's interests are similar. Democracy has proven to be the best government we've come up with as a species.

Against the Native Americans? Sure. Guilty as charged.


Or Haiti, where the US installed "Papa Doc" Duvalier, who's dynasty killed over 100,000 people in '59.

Or maybe the 15 attempts to unbalance the democracy in Laos, the failure of which led to more US bombs dropping on the nation than the US dropped in the whole of WW2.

Or the installation of Branco in Brazil, and the subsquent CIA training for his death-squads.

Maybe when the US put Suharto in power in Indonesia, so he could massarce 1 million of his people.

Pehaps Mobutu in the Congo, put their by a US-backed coup. Again.

Or the creation of a civil war in Angola, which results in 300,000 Angolans dying.

The illegal arming of the Contras.

The arming, training and support of a Mr S. Hussein, from 1980-1990

Any one of about fifty other examples.

The US should be part of the world, but it shouldn't pretend to be leading the world to freedom, democracy and lovelyness. OK?

I was hoping that we'd not get into a pissin' match, but:

Liberation of Kuwait from Iraq.

Liberation of Afghanistan from the Taleban.

Liberation of France, Italy, Holland, Belgium and Germany itself from fascism.

Sustaination of South Korea.

Sustaination of West Berlin via massive airlift.

The Marshall Plan.

NATO. Without it, Western Europe would likely have not been able to stay outside the grip of the Soviet Union.

Support of Solidarity in Poland, and of other anti-Communist unions.

Founding the UN. (Ironic, these days)

Getting the English and French OUT of Egypt in 1956.

Supporting the French in South Vietnam (not successful. Probably not a good idea. But an example of the US trying to preserve Democracy)

Also: the US provides over 40% of the aid given planet wide in any calendar year since WW2. And to me, that's lovely. :)

STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
Look at the little brit:
:( :sniper:
now visit my site: http://www.freewebs.com/haveasliceofmypieably

P.S.

I probably didn't mean that british thing, but I am just so pissed that American money isn't worth crap over there unless you have alot of it.

Yet you managed to ignore that when you claimed that the US was the knight in shining armour who stops genocides. Rwanada, Darfur (I don't recall them doing much of anything in both cases) etc...

We're kind of busy right now, what with troops in South Korea, Afghanistan and Iraq. Why don't you EU/UN boys take this one? It'll go a long way in helping us Americans believe that the world can take care of itself.

And while we're on the topic, why is it that the world is angry at the US when we DO intervene, and when we DON'T intervene? Sheesh!

Surely the French should have been doing something more than protecting their own in Rwanda (and now Ivory Coast)??


Oh? We do?

That's what I thought you meant by "Bonus", no?


Same problem. Whats Myrth doing? Resurrecting the old slow server demon?



Lol!

WARM beer???, :sniper: :mad: :headbang:

Yeah man they drink it cold now. The only place I had a room temperature beer, (which was pretty chilly) was an ancient pub and micobrew called The Firkin Club in High Wych.

A: Königgrätz was and still is in Bohemia. Czech republic if you like.
B: Silesia today is Poland. Back then Silesia was a province of Prussia. And the Poles were the population minority.

Yep. I did a cut n' paste to try to save time and forgot to delete the Koniggratz part when I erased a sentance.


They were prepared. But untill then no one had used paratroopers to get obstacles, like an impregneble fortress, out of the way.

But (to me) it still is putting all the eggs in one basket, and only shows that Belgium/France/England didn't have as close a defense as they did in the first war.

I didn't say anything like that. But demanding reparations from Germany the minute they became EU members, with heavy German support, is a good way to sour relations. How would they like it if Germany demands back it's eastern territories? I don't think they would be realy thrilled either.

But it sure sounded like it.
Prior claim doesn't wash in the world court. That's why the Mongol's aren't pressing for land rights straight through to Hungary.

STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
Look at the little brit:
:( :sniper:
now visit my site: http://www.freewebs.com/haveasliceofmypieably

P.S.

I probably didn't mean that british thing, but I am just so pissed that American money isn't worth crap over there unless you have alot of it.
on the end of my site name, erase ably,typo..... hehe.

I wasn't aware that we were. But I do believe that our best interests and the world's interests are similar.
Typical PNAC thinking. And the Democrats variant of PNAC. Progressive internationalism as they call it. :gundge:







Liberation of Kuwait from Iraq.
One word. Oil.

Liberation of Afghanistan from the Taleban.
Just too bad you didn't stay to finish the job.

Liberation of France, Italy, Holland, Belgium and Germany itself from fascism.


Sustaination of West Berlin via massive airlift.

The Marshall Plan.

NATO. Without it, Western Europe would likely have not been able to stay outside the grip of the Soviet Union.

Don't try to make it sound like the US did either of those cause they are the "good guys". Ha!!!



Getting the English and French OUT of Egypt in 1956.
Once the US helped to create the crisis to begin with. And it was more the threat of Soviet intervention and British weakness and dependancy on the US which made them back off. Also I'd like to add that the US previously told their allies they were OK with it. But after they critized the USSR for their intervention in Hungary they didn't have a choice but to stab their allies in the back. And oh yeah. Britain and France? Aren't we overlooking Israel here? They went along for the ride.

By the way people, I find German beer to be the best. And warm beer??? What were you thinking? That is just disgusting. I would only drink warm beer if it was the last liquid on earth, or if it had been between another girls knockers.

We're kind of busy right now, what with troops in South Korea, Afghanistan and Iraq. Why don't you EU/UN boys take this one? It'll go a long way in helping us Americans believe that the world can take care of itself.
Oh. So you make a mess and then want others to clean it up for you? You could do it yourself if you weren't so busy invading and now occupying a formerly sovereign country.

And while we're on the topic, why is it that the world is angry at the US when we DO intervene, and when we DON'T intervene? Sheesh!
Cause you never do it for the right reasons. Only when it suits your businesses.

Surely the French should have been doing something more than protecting their own in Rwanda (and now Ivory Coast)??
Like what? Invade and overthrow the local government? I actually do believe the French know better what they are doing in Ivory Coast then the Americans what they are doing in Iraq.


That's what I thought you meant by "Bonus", no?
What did you think I meant?

Belgium has the best beer of the world!

Agreed!

Delerium Tremens is my favorite. Speaking of which, I have a bottle at my parents waiting for me.

The US was not needed in WW1. You showed up at the end and then completely fouled up the treaty at the end. If you'd not been there, the terms would have been much stricter, and Germany wouldn't have been able to kick off the second one.

Actually, the treaty was allready too harsh. It is because of the harsh treaty that there surely was going to be a second war.

Typical PNAC thinking. And the Democrats variant of PNAC. Progressive internationalism as they call it. :gundge:


PNAC? I'm not familar with that one.


One word. Oil.


Of *course* it was partially for oil.
So... why does Germany have troops in Kuwait now, eh? YOU WANT THE OIL!!
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/03/19/sprj.irq.germany.reut/

Come on now. I can see why you might say that the current war in Iraq is about oil. But 1991? Pfha. That's like saying Germany invaded France in 1940 for the wine and cheese. And didn't the 91' war have that UN sanction that Germany & France are complaining the current Iraq war lacks? :)



Just too bad you didn't stay to finish the job.


Excuse me? I guess that the 9,000 troops we have there are spectres? What on Earth are you talking about? Afghanistan just had it's first free election!


Don't try to make it sound like the US did either of those cause they are the "good guys". Ha!!!

They were... because Hitler was obviously the bad guy. Notice I'm not saying Germany nor the German people. The US could have not gotten involved and just fought a Pacific War. And wow, would the world be different today.

Would you care to site other reasons for the Berlin Airlift, other than to feed & fuel an encircled city for humanitarian reasons and to keep the Soviets from controlling Berlin?
And why issue the Marshall Plan? To aid those whom suffered in the war and to help restore Europe. Yes, it was also to ensure that Europe would be able to face the coming Cold War. But the aid was generous.

I notice that you're just basically anti-American on principle. Is there any specific reason for it?


Once the US helped to create the crisis to begin with. And it was more the threat of Soviet intervention and British weakness and dependancy on the US which made them back off. Also I'd like to add that the US previously told their allies they were OK with it. But after they critized the USSR for their intervention in Hungary they didn't have a choice but to stab their allies in the back. And oh yeah. Britain and France? Aren't we overlooking Israel here? They went along for the ride.

Er? Are you saying that Egypt had the right to unilaterally nationalize the Canal?
Israel:Are you saying that keeping the Canal closed to Israeli shipping was right? That the blockade was okay, just because it was Israel? And the fedayeen attacking Israel was okay, that they should just "take it"?

Are you also saying that the US was at the Sevres conference?? The US most certainly did NOT create this crisis.

Yes, the US did at first say it would not get involved and later changed it's mind. That is not the same as a statement of "we're behind you", as with the French in Viet Nam.

Oh. So you make a mess and then want others to clean it up for you? You could do it yourself if you weren't so busy invading and now occupying a formerly sovereign country.

Feel free at any time to tell me how the US is responsible for Sudan.

Also please explain why Colin Powell brokered the current cease fire instead of an EU delegate?

We're cleaning up our own mess in Iraq right now. Ditto Afghanistan, which we didn't support properly once the Soviets left.


Cause you never do it for the right reasons. Only when it suits your businesses.

And what are the right reasons?!? Yours? If so, they you *do* want the US as a world policeman.


Like what? Invade and overthrow the local government? I actually do believe the French know better what they are doing in Ivory Coast then the Americans what they are doing in Iraq.


That depends. Is there a local government at this point? It doesn't look very solid from my chair. How about doing some of that vaunted "Diplomacy" and getting a cease fire together early?

That's your opinion, and it's mine that the French aren't doing enough for their airs. They have this pretention of "leading Europe", yet CANADA has more troops deployed in Afghanistan than they do! They had to ask the US for help with Haiti... AGAIN!
As far as I'm concearned, the EU is like a little brother sometimes. It complains bitterly when the US doesn't do something, and has sour grapes when it does.

And I love Europe. I've spent over a year of my life in Austria, Poland, Slovakia and visited 8 other nations besides. But this idea that the EU needs to counterbalance the US instead of partner with the US is hubristic. And Iraq, due to the UN scandal, was bound to happen.


What did you think I meant?

With that one line, I thought we were in agreement that if the US didn't support Israel, that Israel would disappear. Then you questioned that.

PNAC? I'm not familar with that one.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/


Of *course* it was partially for oil.
So... why does Germany have troops in Kuwait now, eh? YOU WANT THE OIL!!
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/03/19/sprj.irq.germany.reut/
No. They are their to support your War on terror.

Come on now. I can see why you might say that the current war in Iraq is about oil. But 1991? Pfha. That's like saying Germany invaded France in 1940 for the wine and cheese. And didn't the 91' war have that UN sanction that Germany & France are complaining the current Iraq war lacks? :)
Yes it did. But Saddam did ask his US allies first about Kuwait. And they told him they had no opinion on the matter.




Excuse me? I guess that the 9,000 troops we have there are spectres? What on Earth are you talking about? Afghanistan just had it's first free election!
They might as well be. Since the country outside of Kabul and a few other cities is still contoled by either the warlords or the returning Taliban.



They were... because Hitler was obviously the bad guy.
With whom they did lot's of business before getting involved. Without the aid of US firms like IBM the holocaust wouldn't have been as effective and organised as it was.

Would you care to site other reasons for the Berlin Airlift, other than to feed & fuel an encircled city for humanitarian reasons and to keep the Soviets from controlling Berlin?
The emberassement of having to give in to the evil communists.
And why issue the Marshall Plan? To aid those whom suffered in the war and to help restore Europe. Yes, it was also to ensure that Europe would be able to face the coming Cold War. But the aid was generous.
Short term goals. To gain markets for US products. Long term goals. A buffer zone between the communist world and the US.

I notice that you're just basically anti-American on principle. Is there any specific reason for it?
Their are many. Starting with the link above.



Er? Are you saying that Egypt had the right to unilaterally nationalize the Canal?
Thats what you are saying. Since your thumping your chest about the US stabbing it's allies Britain and France in the back and making them leave the Suez canal in Egyptian hands.



Israel:Are you saying that keeping the Canal closed to Israeli shipping was right? That the blockade was okay, just because it was Israel? And the fedayeen attacking Israel was okay, that they should just "take it"?
See above.

Are you also saying that the US was at the Sevres conference?? The US most certainly did NOT create this crisis.
No. But the US along with Britain did cancel the funding for the Aswan Dam. After Egypt agnoliged the communist party. In return Nasse nationalised the canal to raise the funds to pay for it.

Yes, the US did at first say it would not get involved and later changed it's mind. That is not the same as a statement of "we're behind you", as with the French in Viet Nam.
The US condemned Soviet intervention in Hungary. So they couldn't keep quite about the Suez crisis like they promised first. This also led to the rift between France and the US. Since France now saw that the US was everything but a reliable ally.

That okay.

Back to Belgium.


Manneken Pis is a real anticlimax

Haa Haa

Yeah. Even for Belgians it's dissapointing. In the words of a U.S. friend of mine I showed around: "That's all?"

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

I'll have to look that over when I have some time, I'm not aquainted with it.
However, at least the opening page doesn't seem to be beligerent.


No. They are their to support your War on terror.

Hey, I'm just putting it back on your plate for painting the US as only in it for the oil. :D

BTW:It is not our war on terror. It is *Civilization's* war on terror.

Or would you prefer this fate for St. Stephen's Cathedral, Notre Dame, and Aachen? http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/03/12/afghan.buddha.02/

Don't think for a MOMENT that even if the US left the Middle East and went isolationist that it would all stop. The Taleban, like most zealots, cannot be reasoned with. They'd be more than happy to take away your Internet access and freedom of expression.


Yes it did. But Saddam did ask his US allies first about Kuwait. And they told him they had no opinion on the matter.

That's a far cry from "go ahead and invade", though.


They might as well be. Since the country outside of Kabul and a few other cities is still contoled by either the warlords or the returning Taliban.

A nation that has known nothing except war for about four generations, and you think it's going to be a quick, clean swap-over to peace in less than four? I might as well point to the economic failures in much of the former East Germany to say that reunification didn't work... Everything takes time.


With whom they did lot's of business before getting involved. Without the aid of US firms like IBM the holocaust wouldn't have been as effective and organised as it was.

Ah yes, the typical German reaction: we're not responsible for Hitler. Please!
You might as well say that Russia was responsible for the firebombing of Dresden because Sikorsky developed the first bomber! IBM? Sure they're responsible in a small part. So was Krupp and Mercedes. So what? My friend, there is nothing about Hitler I can call good, particularly after 1938.

And why did you automatically go to the Holocaust when I called Hitler the bad guy? Are you saying that the Munich Conference was ok? How about invading Poland? Or any other nation? Breaking the pact with Stalin?
If *any* of this was okay in your mind, then you're okay with Germany persuing it's own interests. Therefore, your hostility for the US persuing ITS national interests is not only misplaced, it's hypocritical.


The emberassement of having to give in to the evil communists.

Embarassment? If you're going to boil down US and Allied aid to Berlin to avoid "embarrasment", then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe we should have let the Berliners starve? But wait! That runs counter to your idea that the US gets involved only for the wrong reasons!! :p


Short term goals. To gain markets for US products. Long term goals. A buffer zone between the communist world and the US.

Remember: even in 1947, the cold war wasn't even lukewarm yet.
Buffer? We call that the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. How about we prefer seeing people unoppressed?
We already had markets up the yin-yang with Japan and South America, so that doesn't really wash. Never mind we had OURSELVES as a huge post-war market: all those soldiers coming home, money saved up, buying houses and cars and starting families.


Their are many. Starting with the link above.

So if the US doesn't get involved at all, you're angry.
If the US gets involved for reasons you don't approve of, you're angry.
Can you post any time the US got involved for a reason you approve of? If not, you're fooling yourself: you just hate the US because of what you think it is, not for what it does. Consider that for a moment, please.


Thats what you are saying. Since your thumping your chest about the US stabbing it's allies Britain and France in the back and making them leave the Suez canal in Egyptian hands.

Huh? You're saying that Egypt was okay with nationalizing the Canal BEFORE, because LATER the US told the French and the British to withdraw?


See above.

So all the actions of Egypt were justified in the past due to the future outcome? Man, I'd love to be in your world!
"Your honor, it's okay that I shot this man to death now, because his son's son will kill your son's son."


No. But the US along with Britain did cancel the funding for the Aswan Dam. After Egypt agnoliged the communist party. In return Nasse nationalised the canal to raise the funds to pay for it.

The US canceled funding because Egypt recognised Communist China. Does Germany give money to nations it does not consider to be allies? I don't see lots of Euros flowing to Iraq from your coffers.


The US condemned Soviet intervention in Hungary. So they couldn't keep quite about the Suez crisis like they promised first. This also led to the rift between France and the US. Since France now saw that the US was everything but a reliable ally.

Oh, right. All the aid we sent into Viet Nam, and all the advisors and combat troops we funneled in before the French withdrawl proves how unreliable we were. :rolleyes:

Couldn't they import a mountain or something? Or at least build roads as if they were going round hills..

No mountains but half of the country is full of hills (the South): the Ardennes.
Driving through the country is the most boring experience ever. No it is verry stressfull because of the amount of trafic (Flander, the North, most dense traffic in the world with Hong Kong). There are so much roads that astronouts speak of "Bright Belgium" because they see the roadlights by night from space.

Why does Belgium not suck:


There is the best beer in the whole world, the best chocolates of the whole world, we have the French kitchen, what England can not say ;) lots of kind, little bit reserved people. Oh yeah... and French Fries are not from France. But guess what: They are from BELGIUM

No mountains but half of the country is full of hills (the South): the Ardennes.
No it is verry stressfull because of the amount of trafic (Flander, the North, most dense traffic in the world with Hong Kong). There are so much roads that astronouts speak of "Bright Belgium" because they see the roadlights by night from space.


There is no land which roads are so lightnend as they are in Belgium.
We even can't see stars!
That's negative... but very save :)

And to think all this anti-US/anti-Europe sentiment was generated from talk of lowly Belgium alone. I usually don't, but I'm going to sit this one out. Anyway, yay for the Low Countries. If I can add one to the roster of who-cares European countries I'd like to note Andorra. I think that would trump San Marino easily; San Marino has a population in the hundreds of thousands, and there are fewer than fifty thousand people in the single city in Andorra.

Well, let's think about it. Belgium. What's really the point? Half of you speak French, the other half speak German. Why not just be French and German?

And what's the deal with having a country that's so ridiculously FLAT? It's as bad as East Anglia, for Christ sake. You're just asking for floods, really, aren't you?

Belgium. Good for chocolate, but otherwise shite. :D
Where are you from? The US, the worst of possibilities?

Belgium. Good for chocolate, but otherwise shite. :D
you forgot the beer

Well the Dutch do have a story about a boy who saved the country by sticking his finger in a dyke.

Actually they don't. The story in question was completely made up by the American writer Mary Elizabeth Mapes Dodge, and the Dutch didn't know about it until bewildered Amercian tourists started asking why there was no statue for this "Hansje Brinker". Feeling sorry for them - and seeing an opportunity to get cash from silly people - a statue was then made. Which is a nice little money earner ;)

To continue on the Netherlands... I believe they were the first country to recognize the US independence, and that the US had almost chosen Dutch as its main language. Father Christmas is still named Santa Clause thanks to the dutch reverence for Saint Nicholas or Sinterklaas. The Dutch Abel Tasman discovered Australia (do we need to thank him for that ;) ?), the scientist van Leeuwenhoek invented the microscope and is therefor father of modern medicine, Philips coorporation invented the Cd. When looking at other sciences.. well, lets say that per capita the Dutch have earned the most Nobel prizes ;-) Van der Waals, Zeeman, Lorentz and Snell may ring bells. As may philosophers like Spinoza, Luther and Calvijn (Calvinists).
The Dutch VOC or East India Company ruled the oceans for years. For years it was the only western country Japan wished to deal with. Currently Rotterdam is the worlds busiest port, the Dutch are one of the worlds largest producers of livestock due to superior agricultural technology and the main office of the European Space Agency is housed there. As is the the Hague Supreme court and one of the worlds main internethubs ;)

*breathes*

I can continue, but I think the point has been made. And Belgium was there as a part of the Netherlands for quite a while ;)

One day, the Belgians told their King they were fed up with the French making jokes about the stupid Belgians.

So the Belgian king met with the French president and said, "We have to do something about this... how about you guys do something stupid so we can laugh about it?"

The French president said, "Okay, we'll build a bridge in the desert."

The Belgian king went home with news that the French had built a bridge in the desert, and the Belgians were laughing and laughing. In fact, they wouldn't stop laughing.

Eventually, the Belgian king had put a stop to this. He went back to France and told the president, "Okay, that was funny but we really need to end this. You can destroy the bridge now..."

The French president replied, "Well we would except for all the Belgians fishing on it."

Boo!

Belgium-Back-Bump