NationStates Jolt Archive

Will they rise up or will they fade away? All three countries have the ability to do serious harm, and have that ever presant seed of Communism?

Last time I checked Russia wasn't communist, it's more of Putin dictatorship.

No, I do not believe that they are willing to start another world war. At all.

Last time I checked Russia wasn't communist, it's more of Putin dictatorship.
Russia as much as they want people to think that they are moving foward, is still in a state of caos after the fall of communism, and could easily revert.

North Korea's the only one dumb enough to start a war with the US.

Oops. I clicked on 'NO' before seeing North Korea. IMO North Korea's the only threat. Because they got nukes.

Their probably not a threat to the US, but to Japan and South they are.

Talking with some of my chinese friends from China, They think that the government is getting really fed up with North Korea's shinnanigans. China's interested in prosperity, they've more or less given up on the communist ideal, just that the big wigs like to hold power up there. *Facist?

You may have some kind of basis about North Korea... but China and Russia I don't think is possible.

Oops. I clicked on 'NO' before seeing North Korea. IMO North Korea's the only threat. Because they got nukes.

Their probably not a threat to the US, but to Japan and South they are.

Talking with some of my chinese friends from China, They think that the government is getting really fed up with North Korea's shinnanigans. China's interested in prosperity, they've more or less given up on the communist ideal, just that the big wigs like to hold power up there. *Facist?
Possable. If they do not die soon then there could be trouble.(the big wigs) because they are loosing power and do not like it nothing like a good war to consolidate power under yourself.

Just curious... do you have any evidence to support that? And how would going up against a more powerful nation and getting your ass handed to you consolidate their power?

Just curious... do you have any evidence to support that? And how would going up against a more powerful nation and getting your ass handed to you consolidate their power?
The old communists already have the power, and if they use it, there will be more work to support the military. Countries equiping for war temporarily boost the economy, and that gives their leaders support, because more people are working and eating, and active in their country, notionalism swells, and China would not ness. lose, especially if other countries went to war at the same time.

Just curious... do you have any evidence to support that? And how would going up against a more powerful nation and getting your ass handed to you consolidate their power?
Proof on which part of the topic?

Mabye America is a bigger threat than all three?

Do we really have any reason to think that North Korea or China are a threat to us? Now South Korea has a reason to fret. True enough. But north of North Korea is China. They don't give a crap. The North Korean fleet consists of a few patrol boats and a shrimping fleet. Screw North Korea.

China? Last I heard, they hated Russia. They also drool over India. God knows why. Screw them too. The Chinese fleet is nearly as advanced as the North Korean Fleet. Screw them too.

Now the Russians, on the other hand, have a proven history of trying to invade and/or convert nations both nearby and distant. Their fleet was ... WAS second only to ours. I'm not sure if that's true anymore. Frankly, I doubt it. Nevertheless, of these three countries, the only one that has a history of imperialistic expansion is Russia. Screw China and North Korea.

Not that I'm saying, "Argh! HATE RUSSIA!" But they changed governments four times in the last 100 years. They should always be watched. *nod*

Proof on which part of the topic?

>>>If they do not die soon then there could be trouble.(the big wigs) because they are loosing power and do not like it nothing like a good war to consolidate power under yourself<<<.

Mabye America is a bigger threat than all three?
Mabey.

Nay Russia's population shrinks by like a million each year. It would be like if a city the size of Boston disappeared from the US each year, and trends aren't likely to change anytime soon.

China is going to face the mother of all baby boomer retirement disasters because of the one child policy when their massive popluation gets old and they don't have enough young workers to keep them fed and cared for. This will preoccupy them for a looongg time starting in about 20 years.

North Korea has been in utter collapse since the downfall of its benefactor the USSR. Thousands of people flee across the boarder every year and its weapontry is old rusty soviet junk.

So the answer is no, none of these countries poses a serious threat, although China is by far the most dangerous of the three.

>>>If they do not die soon then there could be trouble.(the big wigs) because they are loosing power and do not like it nothing like a good war to consolidate power under yourself<<<.
Communism is being replace at a rapidly advancing pace in china by capitalism and a more free enviroment, and the relics of communism are becoming obsolete. If you were becomming obsolete and loosing your power what would you do to keep it?

Do we really have any reason to think that North Korea or China are a threat to us? Now South Korea has a reason to fret. True enough. But north of North Korea is China. They don't give a crap. The North Korean fleet consists of a few patrol boats and a shrimping fleet. Screw North Korea.

China? Last I heard, they hated Russia. They also drool over India. God knows why. Screw them too. The Chinese fleet is nearly as advanced as the North Korean Fleet. Screw them too.

Now the Russians, on the other hand, have a proven history of trying to invade and/or convert nations both nearby and distant. Their fleet was ... WAS second only to ours. I'm not sure if that's true anymore. Frankly, I doubt it. Nevertheless, of these three countries, the only one that has a history of imperialistic expansion is Russia. Screw China and North Korea.

Not that I'm saying, "Argh! HATE RUSSIA!" But they changed governments four times in the last 100 years. They should always be watched. *nod*
Yoiu sure do like to screw whole countries.

Communism is being replace at a rapidly advancing pace in china by capitalism and a more free enviroment, and the relics of communism are becoming obsolete. If you were becomming obsolete and loosing your power what would you do to keep it?

How would starting a war against a much stronger nation help?

Communism is being replace at a rapidly advancing pace in china by capitalism and a more free enviroment, and the relics of communism are becoming obsolete. If you were becomming obsolete and loosing your power what would you do to keep it?

I remember hearing that the Chinese government embraced capitalism because capitalism could secure their hold on the country for longer.

Yoiu sure do like to screw whole countries.

I have DNA to spread. :D

China doesn't even notice we exist. We never really messed with China. Chinese people could barely place Europe on a map. They never heard about Belgium at all. They may have heard about the UK because of Hong Kong and that's all.
Russia is friend. They have special trade agreement with the EU and we are interdependant.
North Korea doesn't give a shit about us. They're too busy with South Korea, Japan and sometimes with the americans.
So what the hell are you talking about?

China doesn't even notice we exist. We never really messed with China. Chinese people could barely place Europe on a map. They never heard about Belgium at all. They may have heard about the UK because of Hong Kong and that's all.
Russia is friend. They have special trade agreement with the EU and we are interdependant.
North Korea doesn't give a shit about us. They're too busy with South Korea, Japan and sometimes with the americans.
So what the hell are you talking about?
It was a radio am talk show conspiricy theory. it caught my intrest and i thought that i would bring it here.

Do we really have any reason to think that North Korea or China are a threat to us? Now South Korea has a reason to fret. True enough. But north of North Korea is China. They don't give a crap. The North Korean fleet consists of a few patrol boats and a shrimping fleet. Screw North Korea.

No, North Korea has missile systems that can hit West California and has nuiclear weapons. They're also definitely the craziest country that has ever existed (they're head of state's been dead for 12 years. that says it all), and they consider themselves as having nothing to lose. They're not going to WIN any wars, but the can do some damage and they're mad enough to do it. The should be handled with extreme care, and not dismissed out of hand.

China? Last I heard, they hated Russia. They also drool over India. God knows why. Screw them too. The Chinese fleet is nearly as advanced as the North Korean Fleet. Screw them too.

China's not going to attack the US. You guys buy 170 Billion dollars worth of stuff off them every year. Why the hell would they want to attack you? They're making almost enough to avoid a complete and total economic collapse. And China's fleet is somewhere around the third largest and fifth best equiped in the world, and they have quite a few nuclear subs, so I don't know where you get your information from on this.

But China's not going to be going for anyone any time soon. Especially not customers, and especially when they decide (in a few years) to start exporting people.

Now the Russians, on the other hand, have a proven history of trying to invade and/or convert nations both nearby and distant. Their fleet was ... WAS second only to ours. I'm not sure if that's true anymore. Frankly, I doubt it. Nevertheless, of these three countries, the only one that has a history of imperialistic expansion is Russia. Screw China and North Korea.

China's history of imperialsit expansion dates back over 6000 years. China invaded Tibet in only 1959 (ish). China has been empire building since the Russians were learning to bang the rocks together. China had been attempting to invade Taiwan since the Kumintang retreated there. You are just plain wrong if you think they have no imperialist history. Also, remember who gave Veitnam and Korea the idea to become communist, before you start assuming only the Russians want to export the revolution.

They have the worlds second largest fleet, but it's not really that exciting to look at any more. I believe they still maintain the largest army, and it's hard to compare their tech with western versions. They've got a plane that uses an anologue computer, for example. Seems backward till you realise that means it's immune to EMP.

But I'm not worried about Russia any more than I am about the US. Actually, I worry about the US a lot more, since Russia's too tied up with it's own shit at the moment.

Not that I'm saying, "Argh! HATE RUSSIA!" But they changed governments four times in the last 100 years. They should always be watched. *nod*

Um... Doesn't the US change governments every four to eight years?
Besides, if you mean government system, so's Germany. And Iraq, now.

China doesn't even notice we exist. We never really messed with China. Chinese people could barely place Europe on a map.

Same can be said about plenty of American teenagers. :D

They never heard about Belgium at all.

No great loss. And again, I'm willing to bet the same could be said for lots of Americans. And probably Belgians, for that matter. :D


Russia is friend. They have special trade agreement with the EU and we are interdependant.

Yup. Russia's no problem, really. I think this may just be a hangover from the cold war.

North Korea doesn't give a shit about us. They're too busy with South Korea, Japan and sometimes with the americans.

All to true. I think that the idea is that we and the Americans are allies, and therefore North Korea is a threat. And their new missile systems can hit Belgium, even though, like everyone else, they've probably never heard of it :D

I'm not too worried. If they try to nuke us, they'll get decimated. The secound they launch a nuke at us, there will be fourty more flying at the, and then we go to nuclear winter.

Where are my snow shoes?

China doesn't even notice we exist. We never really messed with China. Chinese people could barely place Europe on a map. They never heard about Belgium at all. They may have heard about the UK because of Hong Kong and that's all.
Russia is friend. They have special trade agreement with the EU and we are interdependant.
North Korea doesn't give a shit about us. They're too busy with South Korea, Japan and sometimes with the americans.
So what the hell are you talking about?

Your assessment of Chinese geographical knowledge is way off base. Most Chinese i know/have met are easily up to par with the Europeans/Americans. Maybe two or three decades ago it would have been "true", but China has opened up to the world in a big way. As for Belgium, you're probably right, but hell, I've known European, let alone American, people who couldn't place Belgium on a map. Seriously though, who cares? It's BELGIUM for crying out loud! :D

Your assessment of Chinese geographical knowledge is way off base. Most Chinese i know/have met are easily up to par with the Europeans/Americans. Maybe two or three decades ago it would have been "true", but China has opened up to the world in a big way. As for Belgium, you're probably right, but hell, I've known European, let alone American, people who couldn't place Belgium on a map. Seriously though, who cares? It's BELGIUM for crying out loud! :D
Americans are not up to par with europeans.

China's history of imperialsit expansion dates back over 6000 years. China invaded Tibet in only 1959 (ish). China has been empire building since the Russians were learning to bang the rocks together. China had been attempting to invade Taiwan since the Kumintang retreated there. You are just plain wrong if you think they have no imperialist history. Also, remember who gave Veitnam and Korea the idea to become communist, before you start assuming only the Russians want to export the revolution.

Minor point, but the Communist movement under Ho Chi Minh in Vietnam was started LONG before the ChiCom was in any position to export the revolution, i.e. while the chinese civil war was still raging. As for North Korea, it was essentially a puppet state, installed by the Soviet Union during its post-WW2 occupation of the area; China did not get involved in Korea until the peninsular war was well underway. China certainly made its presence felt in those decades of turmoil, but mainly through direct military interventions, and to only a small extent through export of ideology.

Americans are not up to par with europeans.

Now, now: I actually agree with you on this point, but I didn't want to derail this thread and turn it into yet another barbecue. ;)

Americans are not up to par with europeans.


Well, they were never likely to be, really, were they? North America has three real countries in it and a bunch of islands. It's not the same as Europe, which has more countries per square meter than you can shake a stick at. Even Belgium.

Europe's also got more languages kicking about, too. It gives a whole different sense of perspective. If I travel a few hundred miles in any direction, I'm in another country. If I did that in some parts of the US, I wouldn't even leave the state.

And can you point out every individual state in the union on a map? Plenty of Americans can. It's about perspective, I tells ya, and no two ways about it.

I can forgive them not knowing about Belgium, and only having a hazy idea about most other countries, but it's annoying that they insist on telling countries they can't find what to do.

And can you point out every individual state in the union on a map? Plenty of Americans can. It's about perspective, I tells ya, and no two ways about it.

Actually, I can, and the same for Africa, S. America and Asia + capitals etc. If anything, coming from a continent with a large amount of "national variety" tends to encourage absorption of geography. What I don't get is the defensiveness displayed by many Americans on these types of issues. You typically get the "well, America is so huge you could drive for hours and hours etc. etc." response when for instance this type of geography issue or the passport issue is broached. Come on, Russia is what - twice the size of the US? and in no way, shape or form as insular. This in spite of the fact that Russia has had long periods of isolation in its history, something the US certainly has not.

Crap, that was totally OT. :p

Minor point, but the Communist movement under Ho Chi Minh in Vietnam was started LONG before the ChiCom was in any position to export the revolution, i.e. while the chinese civil war was still raging. As for North Korea, it was essentially a puppet state, installed by the Soviet Union during its post-WW2 occupation of the area; China did not get involved in Korea until the peninsular war was well underway. China certainly made its presence felt in those decades of turmoil, but mainly through direct military interventions, and to only a small extent through export of ideology.

I suppose, buut Mao was very much an inspiration figure to the VC's. As were the 'tang, really. And I was more using 'export the revolution' in terms of that military intervention.

Actually, I can, and the same for Africa, S. America and Asia + capitals etc. If anything, coming from a continent with a large amount of "national variety" tends to encourage absorption of geography. What I don't get is the defensiveness displayed by many Americans on these types of issues. You typically get the "well, America is so huge you could drive for hours and hours etc. etc." response when for instance this type of geography issue or the passport issue is broached. Come on, Russia is what - twice the size of the US? and in no way, shape or form as insular. This in spite of the fact that Russia has had long periods of isolation in its history, something the US certainly has not.

Crap, that was totally OT. :p

NP on the OT.

Russia's been around a lot longer, I suppose; it was a player on the international scene when America was a tabacco plantation owned by the British. And the US was isolationist right up until WW1, from about 1880, so that's a pretty long time. And Russia's only really split up into about eight 'territories', rather than 52.

Also remember that Europeans spent a lot of time taking over small countries where the population considered mangoes to be a good assault weapon, so we looked as geography as a real opportunity, rather than the inconvienient thing which tells you where the missiles land.

probably not combined...

Also remember that Europeans spent a lot of time taking over small countries where the population considered mangoes to be a good assault weapon, so we looked as geography as a real opportunity, rather than the inconvienient thing which tells you where the missiles land.

lol
True, true. Although the US did try to catch up. (Manifest Destiny, Spanish-American War etc.)

Russia's been around a lot longer, I suppose; it was a player on the international scene when America was a tabacco plantation owned by the British. And the US was isolationist right up until WW1, from about 1880, so that's a pretty long time. And Russia's only really split up into about eight 'territories', rather than 52.

Well, as for isolation, I wasn't really referring to isolationist policies, but rather a more general "cloistered-ness" from the outside world, which the US with its constant immigration etc. has never really experienced. Fair point about duration though.

Btw, what do you mean by 52? Are you counting with Puerto Rico and... Guam or something? :D

Will they rise up or will they fade away? All three countries have the ability to do serious harm, and have that ever presant seed of Communism?

This sounds like a half-assed attempt to revive the World Anti-Bolshevik League...

lol
Well, as for isolation, I wasn't really referring to isolationist policies, but rather a more general "cloistered-ness" from the outside world, which the US with its constant immigration etc. has never really experienced. Fair point about duration though.

Btw, what do you mean by 52? Are you counting with Puerto Rico and... Guam or something? :D


Oops, typo. Though if you count Britain and Iraq....


The US shut it's doors to immigrantion in 1890-something, and didn't re-open them until 1918. It only allowed immigrants who were White Anglo-Saxon Protestants in. Which tells you a great deal about the US's ideological differences with fascism (less than most US citizens seem to believe...), even then.

The US shut it's doors to immigrantion in 1890-something, and didn't re-open them until 1918. It only allowed immigrants who were White Anglo-Saxon Protestants in. Which tells you a great deal about the US's ideological differences with fascism (less than most US citizens seem to believe...), even then.

The US didn't ever stop immigration completely at any time, though you may be thinking of the various exclusion acts passed in the late 19th Century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States

I see your point, though I think you are exaggerating a bit.

The US didn't ever stop immigration completely at any time, though you may be thinking of the various exclusion acts passed in the late 19th Century.

I see your point, though I think you are exaggerating a bit.

I admit I was exaggerating at least a little, but if you add up all the laws that were passed (including the Anarchist Exclusion and Literacy acts) it pretty much excluded nine tenths of the worlds population, and the remaining tenth were extremely unlikely to emmigrate. I covered it in 4th year history; the effect was extremely efficient, without any direct litigation saying 'No wops, darkies, spiks, crazies and slopes allowed'. Except for the couple of laws that actually DID say 'no slopes allowed'. :)

China is now in an economical boom thanks to the U.S.A. and others but still hold a few grudges for the western world, damn communism, but they are not a danger to us.
Russia signed the Kyoto Act and are at last on our good side in a way, they are now good world citizens and not a threat.
North Korea holds a nuclear arsenal and are trigger happy just waiting for the U.S. to cross the border from South Korea and are a major threat.

China is not and will not be a threat to the US unless the US perceives it to be in becoming a world power. North Korea could potentially be if the US does something stupid, but we do have leverage with China here. For more economic reasons than any other, China is our friend. Just because a government is communist doesn't mean they're out to get America.

Maybe nobody has heard about Belgium because, unlike a great redneck nation which name i forgot, doesn't try to impose his will on the world and invade countries for fictious reasons. Then again we only get invaded :p

Russia sits on the verge reverting to a dictator under Putin, and their economy is (slowly) recovering. This could prove meddlesom espcialy as he seems intent on moving away from the west. however they are extremely bogged down in Chechnya, and the military is still seriously underfunded for it's size, and much devolved from even the level of porfessianlism seen during the cold war. together with what are still decent relations with the west makes them unlikely to make any agressive moves against western powers... the near abroad however is another issue.

China has one of the fastest growing economys in the world. They are also becoming mass consumers of resources, such as oil, steel, and assorted other strategicly usefuly things. these resources tend not to be found in China. Although it is uncertain if they will feel the need to actualy take possesion of these resources, they will desire to see that the supplies and shipping routes are secure for china intrest. furthermore they are rappidly approaching superpower status militarily. all of the PLA armed forces are modernizing, espcialy the Navy. They have always been uncomfortable with the US world order, Thus it is likely they will chalenge us in areas such as enforcement of freedom of the seas, and the military-political-economic alliance system in asia, which china is currently working within, and building influence to establish a rival order in asia. There is also the possiblity they could go for certain resource rich territoires, such as the spalidives, oil rich islands near china. Old Territorial disputes with russia, india, or viet'nam could also flare up. there is also Tiawan, though largely it is in China's interest ecomicaly to make the relation ship with that particular provicne smooth.

North Korea is affraid of the United States' aggression, but feels it's self to be prepared, and might lash out if pushed to far. However the likelyhood of a direct invasion of the south is remote, as cross DMZ relations are improving. unless they feel sufficnetly threatend and that Nuclear weapons give them enough leverage to keep america out of a sustained war, they shouldn't make any overt moves. The problem is the DPRK is extremly reclusive and it is diffucult to discover their inentions. Their economy is also unstable and the leadership somewhat detached from reality, so who knows what they might actuualy be up to...

Maybe nobody has heard about Belgium because, unlike a great redneck nation which name i forgot, doesn't try to impose his will on the world and invade countries for fictious reasons. Then again we only get invaded :p

Never heard of the Belgian congo? Belgium was the most unpleasant and vile of all the Colonial Powers. it was almost as if it had some sort of complex about it.