NationStates Jolt Archive

I personally think this is very cool. :cool:

26th anniversary even. You're behind the times. :)

Good riddance. Those pricks were amongst the worst regimes in history.

Don't forget, it is about the 30 years anniversary of the overthrow of the US and it's pupet regime in S.Vietnam, wich lead to the reunification of the country that later whiped away those darn Khmer Rouge and liberated Cambodja from the bloody regime (damn Vietcongs, how can we attack you on this :)) . That is also very cool. :cool:

Now the Vietmanese they know how to do regime change. You would think Bush would ask them for advice.

On an unrelated note is their any country which kicks more ass at fighting than Vietnam? In 50 years they beat: Japan, France, United States, South Vietnam, Cambodia and China. They are without a doubt the masters of the art of war.

They are without a doubt the masters of the art of war.

And streetfighting too, believe me. :/

(I should clarify that I have several Vietnamese friends and that wasn't a psuedo-racist quip, because they don't fit the stereotype that the Vietnamese hold over here at all :p)

Now the Vietmanese they know how to do regime change. You would think Bush would ask them for advice.

On an unrelated note is their any country which kicks more ass at fighting than Vietnam? In 50 years they beat: Japan, France, United States, South Vietnam, Cambodia and China. They are without a doubt the masters of the art of war.

The Vietnamese never defeated the U.S.A. Washington, D.C. did.

Good riddance. Those pricks were amongst the worst regimes in history.
Yeah - last March, a Cambodian who had lived under the Khmer Rouge regime had come to our school and talked to us about them

The Vietnamese never defeated the U.S.A. Washington, D.C. did.

U.S. could have won the war in Vietnam in six weeks or less, had they done the following:

1.Invaded the North
2.Closed the port of Haiphong
3.Invaded Laos and Cambodia and destroyed the enemies' sanctuaries there
4.Bombed the transportation links to China
5.Mined Haiphong harbor
6.Permitted pilots to destroy SAM sites while they were under construction, instead of waiting until they were operational
7.Allowing our troops to blow up dams, factories, power plants, etc.
8.Ceased trade with the USSR and its satellites, upon whom the North Vietnamese were entirely dependent to maintain their war effort
9.Bombed strategic cities such as Haiphong and Hanoi
10.Allowed our pilots to bomb trucks that had wandered more than 200 yards off the Ho Chi Minh Trail
11.Fully supplied our pilots and troops (there were often ammunition and bomb shortages)
12.Restored Bao Dai as Emperor of Vietnam, thereby restoring Vietnamese unity among all non-communists
13.Appointed Nguyen ton Hoan as Prime Minister (he was a militant anticommunist and pro-Western who was popular among Vietnamese but hated and feared by the communists)
14.Put Le Van Vien in charge of ARVN (he was a former pirate who was a military genius and was highly efficient at killing communists and beating them at their own game)
15.Provided ARVN with the latest in weapons and technology (rather than obsolete crap that was almost worthless)
16.Repealed the absurd rules that prohibited troops from firing at the enemy unless and until fired upon (provided the enemy missed)
17.Allowed our pilots to attack ships which were bringing supplies to the enemy
18.Mobilized the reserves
19.Allowed allies such as Rhodesia and Taiwan (who had offered to send troops but were turned down) to contribute troops, and beseech South Africa, Nicaragua, Iran, Portugal, Spain, Malaysia, Paraguay, and other anticommunist countries to do the same, if necessary
20.Put military men in charge with the war rather than politicians
21.Fired Robert McNamara, who gutted the hell out of our military
22.Heavily censored our pro-communist media to keep public morale high)

Don't forget, it is about the 30 years anniversary of the overthrow of the US and it's pupet regime in S.Vietnam, wich lead to the reunification of the country that later whiped away those darn Khmer Rouge and liberated Cambodja from the bloody regime (damn Vietcongs, how can we attack you on this :)) . That is also very cool. :cool:

Whatever faults the South Vietnamese government may have had, it pales in comparison to the USSR's puppet, North Vietnam, which massacred millions and was no less evil than the Khmer Rouge.

Whatever faults the South Vietnamese government may have had, it pales in comparison to the USSR's puppet, North Vietnam, which massacred millions and was no less evil than the Khmer Rouge.

*cough* millions, cough* You mean the millions they saved by chasing the Khmers out of Cambodia.

Evidence please?
I am a anti commie but I hate ignorants like you that spread the propaganda that it was our nation that did it. Poor you. The South Vietnamese Army and US troops killed more citizens then the North, just facts ya know.

*cough* millions, cough* You mean the millions they saved by chasing the Khmers out of Cambodia.

Evidence please?
I am a anti commie but I hate ignorants like you that spread the propaganda that it was our nation that did it. Poor you. The South Vietnamese Army and US troops killed more citizens then the North, just facts ya know.

If you're going to flame, go crawl back into your hole, please. Thanks. Good-bye.

[...] North Vietnam, which massacred millions and was no less evil than the Khmer Rouge.

This is now (at least) the second thread where you've made this allegation. Care to back it up at all?

If you're going to flame, go crawl back into your hole, please. Thanks. Good-bye.

Probably not, given this well-considered and thoughtful reply to someone who disagrees with you and actually has some experience in the region. :rolleyes:

U.S. could have won the war in Vietnam in six weeks or less, had they done the following:

1.Invaded the North
4.Bombed the transportation links to China
5.Mined Haiphong harbor
7.Allowing our troops to blow up dams, factories, power plants, etc.
10.Allowed our pilots to bomb trucks that had wandered more than 200 yards off the Ho Chi Minh Trail
12.Restored Bao Dai as Emperor of Vietnam, thereby restoring Vietnamese unity among all non-communists
14.Put Le Van Vien in charge of ARVN (he was a former pirate who was a military genius and was highly efficient at killing communists and beating them at their own game)
18.Mobilized the reserves
22.Heavily censored our pro-communist media to keep public morale high)

Right, the following I have problems with, for one reason or another. Only one I disagree with in its entirety, though. On this I must congradulate you Roach-Busters, in the months since I first saw you post you've improved dramatically in style and substance.

Let's take it by the numbers shall we?
1) Invade the north; You know as well as I do that political considerations were key in this war. Not just because the politicians were ruining things, but because preventing escelation beyond Vietnam was a tremendously high priority. Putting boots on the ground in N.Vietnam in an occupation would have seriously hurt the US legitimacy from the onset.

4) Bombed transport links to China; This could take several acceptable forms, but like in Korea, you don't want the Chinese ticked off at you. Not when you are already fighting the Russians in proxy. Severing the links on the Veitnam side would probably be acceptable, but make sure you don't hit Chinese targets or you'll pay a higher price than you're probably will to.

5) Mined Haiphong Harbor; Um...You already said close it down, then you mention bombing the city. Both of which seemed fine to me. Mining the harbor could be bad if you hit neutral ships. This one SHOULD be okay so long as you successfully inform nations that you will be shutting down the harbor as to avoid diplomatic incidents.

7) Allow troops to blow up dams, powerplants, factories; This one I don't like very much. Destroying the infrastructure such as dams and powerplants can lead to significant civilian suffering and casualties; in regimes that place little stock in suffering or casualties like N.Vietnam; this would only hurt innocents. I disagree simply because it would not affect the enemy militarily or politically; the N. Vietnamese were perfectly willing to sacrafice lives and the well-being of their people for their objective.

10) I really don't understand why bombing wandering trucks is a good thing.

12/14) I don't know much about these two...so I can't sign off as it being a good idea.

18) This would probably be better than a draft, no? I leave this in only because I don't know the real reason so many reserves were left on reserve when a draft was ongoing.

22) Censor our own media; Flat-wrong. No. Bad Roach-Busters. You took the wrong lesson from Vietnam; the point is not that the public shouldn't know, the point is that the public should agree or you need to analyze your policies REAL close to make sure they're not wrong. Vietnam was being conducted in horrible ways, politicians were running the war, and they were losing it; the people protested the was BECAUSE it was going poorly, the politcians were hacks, and the US could have easily done better.

The analogy I have for this is a child next to a hot stove. You tell the child not to touch the stove; its hot and it would burn them. The child becomes curious about it and touches the stove, burning its hand. You then never tell the child anything about that which might endanger it for fear of this happening again. Effectively leaving it without any form of information about the dangers it faces.

Censor the media because the war went badly? Try; not letting the war go badly. If the war DOES go badly, some heads need to roll SOMEWHERE on the chain of command right? Find out who made us lose and fire them! Bring in a new generation of people to succeed; preferably those who were there when the loss happened.