NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6727646/

Look at the car, and at the blood around it, its discusting!

Somehow, the term "I told you so", just doesn't cut it.

Somehow, the term "I told you so", just doesn't cut it.

Theres this thing, www.turnyourbackonbush.org

it should be www.pulldownyourpantsandmoonbush.org

i hope the Iraqis elect another dictator, than Bush will say "No, uh, thats not how the Democratic process works. Here let me show you." *Bush goes to Iraq to show them how its done, get shot while doing in, aliens here "YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY!"*

Fox will probably call them Terrorists instead of insurgents.

Somehow, the term "I told you so", just doesn't cut it.
Quoting the I, Robot movie is not something anyone should do.

Those who have the most to lose under democracy will be the ones to take the most extreme measures. Islamic assassination of democrats is nothing new.

Quoting the I, Robot movie is not something anyone should do.

Ha! Your right I didnt realize that. He should put down a foot note, people will be proving him wrong all day.

Those who have the most to lose under democracy will be the ones to take the most extreme measures. Islamic assassination of democrats is nothing new.

Are you kidding me?

Oh thats the movie it was from. Never even came to mind. I'm not sure weather to kick you or shake your hand.

I just remembered it from somewhere and thought it had a relevence rating of 120%

The election may not go on as plan? Why does this fail to surprise me...

Look at the car, and at the blood around it, its discusting!

Congratulations, you just crossed the line between news and ghoulishness.

Is being a politician in Iraq a job or is it an especially cruel punishment they bestow on child molestors and rapists?

Everything worthwhile is costly. Do you think teh attainment of democracy and freedom was quick, easy and cheap in England, France, the US, Germany, Russia, Japan, etc.?

Not at all. Compared to the cost of democracy and freedom in those countries Iraq's been relatively less costly in blood.

As well, it's not like people weren't dying en masse under Hussien.

You may take your freedom for granted but it was costly to those before us who died to attain it. The Iraqi's need there freedom as does everybody else. Attaining freedom is expensive and bloody, buit the results are worth it.

There are always those who have their own selfish agenda who try to stop the march of freedom. Should we stand against them or let them win?

Everything worthwhile is costly. Do you think teh attainment of democracy and freedom was quick, easy and cheap in England, France, the US, Germany, Russia, Japan, etc.?

Not at all. Compared to the cost of democracy and freedom in those countries Iraq's been relatively less costly in blood.

As well, it's not like people weren't dying en masse under Hussien.

You may take your freedom for granted but it was costly to those before us who died to attain it. The Iraqi's need there freedom as does everybody else. Attaining freedom is expensive and bloody, buit the results are worth it.

There are always those who have their own selfish agenda who try to stop the march of freedom. Should we stand against them or let them win?

Yeah we won our freedom by getting pissed off and fighting our oppressive British shackles (no offense, you guys are awesome) I don't remember learning about some great savior army who came in, trashed out country and said [Democracy] [You can have this] *America tosses something to Iraq*

The election may not go on as plan? Why does this fail to surprise me...

Last I heard! It is still on for the end of the month and its NOT LIKELY to change.

Those who have the most to lose under democracy will be the ones to take the most extreme measures. Islamic assassination of democrats is nothing new.

Unfortunately your right Areyoukiddingme! And also, when any change or progress starts in the Mid-east, its always a terrorist act that derails it.

Damn Terrorists!

Everything worthwhile is costly. Do you think teh attainment of democracy and freedom was quick, easy and cheap in England, France, the US, Germany, Russia, Japan, etc.?

Not at all. Compared to the cost of democracy and freedom in those countries Iraq's been relatively less costly in blood.

As well, it's not like people weren't dying en masse under Hussien.

You may take your freedom for granted but it was costly to those before us who died to attain it. The Iraqi's need there freedom as does everybody else. Attaining freedom is expensive and bloody, buit the results are worth it.

There are always those who have their own selfish agenda who try to stop the march of freedom. Should we stand against them or let them win?

Suddam Hussien wasn't nearly as bad as you guys make him out to be. He was a Civilized Mass Murderer, just like Every American President since ... Hmm Well Nixon... Murder and Terror is what Saddam did, that was his job, he was paid by the CIA since the 50's for God sakes. You know, if American's stopped putting their fucking nose in other peoples business and train murderers to take over countries with assassinations and coups then that would cut the terror in the world by 95%.

I totally agree we should fight along side the Freedom Fighters and not like the War mongering Tyrant take over the country. They are fighting for their home and their people, I lend them all the blessings and support I can. I do hope they win and defeat the invading scourge who break into their homes and kill their sons and their daughters.

I don't want anyone to die and do not condone any actions involving death, but if it was my country, and the US came into it guns a blazing trying to tell me how to join their soul-dead consumer culture so I can be bought and sold like everything else and working in a sweatshop building things for some rich fucking shit to wear on his feet, then yes, I would kill every fucking one of them, or die trying.

It's our country, it's our freedom, come on US, how many countries are you going to rape and pillage and turn into little "resource centers for american industry" before the rest of the world comes after you.

Then in 50 years you will try and deny the holocaust you brought to the world, how you destroyed the planet, ended peaceful cooexistance and multual brotherhood. You can look down to your son or daughter and say "But I didn't know that I was fighting for the bad guys until it was too late". You can start hanging your head in shame, the eagle and the Stars and stripes will mean in your country what it means to us, elsewhere in the world "Fascist Tyrannical Corporate Power" or the short version "Murderers".

Then we get to put you on Nuremburg trials and hang you from the gallows like Grobbels and all you fascist corporate money-grubbing bastards.

Either learn to be the shining example of what good-will and help your own poor and needy like you can be, or you will go after a country the rest of the world won't let you just have. And we will fight back with the resolve that we fought the Nazi's with, and we will invade your country.

Good luck, the next 15 years should be wonderful to watch.

Is being a politician in Iraq a job or is it an especially cruel punishment they bestow on child molestors and rapists?

Well, the new advisor to Homeland Security now is a former SS commander...

"The USA, the new Aryan Nation!"

Well, the new advisor to Homeland Security now is a former SS commander...

"The USA, the new Aryan Nation!"

Proof please?

Last I heard! It is still on for the end of the month and its NOT LIKELY to change.

Hours after Monday's bombings Dr Allawi spoke to the US President, George Bush, although US officials insisted that the Prime Minister did not tell Mr Bush that elections should be delayed.

"There was no substantive conversation about delay," an Administration official said. Dr Allawi"wasn't even a bit wobbly" on that point.

But some officials in Washington and in Iraq interpreted the call as a sign that Dr Allawi, who is clearly concerned that his party could be heading for defeat if the election is held on schedule, may be preparing the ground to make the case for delay to Mr Bush.

While White House officials were hesitant to give many details of the discussion between Dr Allawi and Mr Bush, they said the Iraqi leader brought up questions of security and the ferocity of the insurgency.

Yet Dr Allawi's cabinet is already showing signs of weakening on the question of holding the elections this month.

The Defence Minister, Hazim al-Shaalan, said in Cairo on Monday that the voting should be postponed to ensure greater participation by Sunnis.

Reuters, The New York Times

Yeah we won our freedom by getting pissed off and fighting our oppressive British shackles (no offense, you guys are awesome) I don't remember learning about some great savior army who came in, trashed out country and said [Democracy] [You can have this] *America tosses something to Iraq*

Japan was freed from a military dictatorship/theocratic monarchy by two nuclear weapons. Germany was firebombed multiple times and underwent much destruction as it was liberated from the Nazis. America needed the help of France to free themselves from the British. One of the largest reasons behind the Soviet collapse and Russian/Eastern European freedom was the Soviets over-expenditure in the arms race against the US. France was liberated from the oppressive government of their 1789 revolution and Napolean by the English and the Germans and was again givern it's freedom after WW2 by the Americans, British, and the other Allies. Italy was freed from Mussolini by foriegn militaries.

Other than the Brits almost every country with today needed outside help (often military help) to free themselves, and it took the Brits multiple internal revolutions and hundreds of years to achieve their freedom. Every country with freedom (other than some former colonies like Canada and Australia who just worked off and used their imperial master's freedoms to gain there own) paid in large amounts of blood for it. There was often outside help and this outside help was often very destructive.

Freedom isn't free.

Suddam Hussien wasn't nearly as bad as you guys make him out to be. He was a Civilized Mass Murderer, just like Every American President since ... Hmm Well Nixon... Murder and Terror is what Saddam did, that was his job, he was paid by the CIA since the 50's for God sakes. You know, if American's stopped putting their fucking nose in other peoples business and train murderers to take over countries with assassinations and coups then that would cut the terror in the world by 95%.



First, can you tell me what mass murders each American President has commited? Second, we were paying Saddam since the 1950's?

HaHaHa, yeah the US should have stayed out of everyones business, and just let the USSR expand all over the Mid-East, Europe, Asia, even Africa. Wow that would be so much better then having the US in those places!
Should we have not aided the Afgani's when they were invaded by the USSR?

Suddam Hussien wasn't nearly as bad as you guys make him out to be. He was a Civilized Mass Murderer, just like Every American President since ... Hmm Well Nixon... Murder and Terror is what Saddam did, that was his job, he was paid by the CIA since the 50's for God sakes. You know, if American's stopped putting their fucking nose in other peoples business and train murderers to take over countries with assassinations and coups then that would cut the terror in the world by 95%.

I totally agree we should fight along side the Freedom Fighters and not like the War mongering Tyrant take over the country. They are fighting for their home and their people, I lend them all the blessings and support I can. I do hope they win and defeat the invading scourge who break into their homes and kill their sons and their daughters.

I don't want anyone to die and do not condone any actions involving death, but if it was my country, and the US came into it guns a blazing trying to tell me how to join their soul-dead consumer culture so I can be bought and sold like everything else and working in a sweatshop building things for some rich fucking shit to wear on his feet, then yes, I would kill every fucking one of them, or die trying.

It's our country, it's our freedom, come on US, how many countries are you going to rape and pillage and turn into little "resource centers for american industry" before the rest of the world comes after you.

Then in 50 years you will try and deny the holocaust you brought to the world, how you destroyed the planet, ended peaceful cooexistance and multual brotherhood. You can look down to your son or daughter and say "But I didn't know that I was fighting for the bad guys until it was too late". You can start hanging your head in shame, the eagle and the Stars and stripes will mean in your country what it means to us, elsewhere in the world "Fascist Tyrannical Corporate Power" or the short version "Murderers".

Then we get to put you on Nuremburg trials and hang you from the gallows like Grobbels and all you fascist corporate money-grubbing bastards.

Either learn to be the shining example of what good-will and help your own poor and needy like you can be, or you will go after a country the rest of the world won't let you just have. And we will fight back with the resolve that we fought the Nazi's with, and we will invade your country.

Good luck, the next 15 years should be wonderful to watch.

Oh I'm sorry, mass political murder and gassing of your own citizens is not evil in the least. Starving your own citizens while you live in opulence is fine.

The US had teh Communists to fight. Communism has killed more people than any other ideology and stopping this evil from spreading was paramount. It was a choice of lesser of the evils. Such as when the US allied with the USSR to stop the Nazis. The Communists might have been bad but the Nazi's were worse.

You know nothing of tyranny. If Bush was a tyrant you'd have the Secret Service or CIA coming to your house right now and putting a bullet through your head and the heads of the rest of your family.

So you say Sadam wasn't that bad then immediately accuse Nixon and Bush of being evil and tyrannical.

What freedom. The Iraqi's had no freedom for the American's to take. In case you don't realize America is trying to establish a democracy based on freedom.

There has never been peaceful coexistence or brotherhood. Since the beginning of time there has been war. The US couldn't ahve destroyed brotherhood and coexistence because there has never been any, or do you forget the Worlds Wars, the NApoleanic Wars, the Hundred Years War, the 30 Years War, and every other war that has taken place for time immemorial.

So you're a pacifist unless the enemy is American or capitalist? That's not hypocritical at all. Everybody pacifistic to those who agree with them.

Are you comparing the American's and the Nazis? What????

You know what that reply has degenerated to irrationality. There's nothing I could say that would be heeded by you in the least.

Quote

"I totally agree we should fight along side the Freedom Fighters and not like the War mongering Tyrant take over the country. They are fighting for their home and their people, I lend them all the blessings and support I can. I do hope they win and defeat the invading scourge who break into their homes and kill their sons and their daughters."

Are you talking about the same people who blow up innocent Iraqi civilians by use of carbombs, and roadside bombs? Yes, such great freedom fighters.

If you care so much, stop being a coward, get off of your computer and go fight in Iraq. See if you like being on the receiving end of a 5.62 shell to the chest. You should since you are such a brave little internet freedom fighter!

Japan was freed from a military dictatorship/theocratic monarchy by two nuclear weapons. Germany was firebombed multiple times and underwent much destruction as it was liberated from the Nazis. America needed the help of France to free themselves from the British. One of the largest reasons behind the Soviet collapse and Russian/Eastern European freedom was the Soviets over-expenditure in the arms race against the US. France was liberated from the oppressive government of their 1789 revolution and Napolean by the English and the Germans and was again givern it's freedom after WW2 by the Americans, British, and the other Allies. Italy was freed from Mussolini by foriegn militaries.

Other than the Brits almost every country with today needed outside help (often military help) to free themselves, and it took the Brits multiple internal revolutions and hundreds of years to achieve their freedom. Every country with freedom (other than some former colonies like Canada and Australia who just worked off and used their imperial master's freedoms to gain there own) paid in large amounts of blood for it. There was often outside help and this outside help was often very destructive.

Freedom isn't free.

Yes I know that. If I came out as simple to you I appoligize; I was just pointing out that no one came in to america and said, "Oh, they look like they need democracy. RAWR!!!!"

Assisted yes, but single handed "liberation"? Eh...

We bull rushed the situation without fully thinking about the logistics of it.

Proof please?

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/spy_wolf_hired_homeland_security.htm

Unfortunately your right Areyoukiddingme! And also, when any change or progress starts in the Mid-east, its always a terrorist act that derails it.

Damn Terrorists!

Of course the fact that no Islamic Nation has ever evolved into a democracy has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Of course the fact that no Islamic Nation has ever evolved into a democracy has absolutely nothing to do with it.

uhhh isn't afghanistan a muslim nation? Yes I do believe they are and guess what? They had a free election! Granted it was their first one but its a good sign non the less!

What about Turkey? They are Democratic too! Egypt? Somewhat democratic themselves. So yea, there are democracies in Muslim nations.

Of course the fact that no Islamic Nation has ever evolved into a democracy has absolutely nothing to do with it.
No Arab nations have. In Southeast Asia, though, look at Indonesia. Or Turkey in the Middle East.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/spy_wolf_hired_homeland_security.htm

Now an actual news source?

No Arab nations have. In Southeast Asia, though, look at Indonesia. Or Turkey in the Middle East.

Forgot about Indonesia! Thanks for pointing that out!

Oh I'm sorry, mass political murder and gassing of your own citizens is not evil in the least. Starving your own citizens while you live in opulence is fine.

The US had teh Communists to fight. Communism has killed more people than any other ideology and stopping this evil from spreading was paramount. It was a choice of lesser of the evils. Such as when the US allied with the USSR to stop the Nazis. The Communists might have been bad but the Nazi's were worse.


Communism, good idea, bad in practise, Capitalism, good idea, bad in practise. It simply took longer before it's true tyranny began to show. and it is showing itself by killing democracy, in your country, not mine.


You know nothing of tyranny. If Bush was a tyrant you'd have the Secret Service or CIA coming to your house right now and putting a bullet through your head and the heads of the rest of your family.


Conviently, I live in a free democracy, not a pretend democracy where I am programmed to fear everything and hate even more. Gluttoning on fast food and oil and afraid of... well.... everything...


So you say Sadam wasn't that bad then immediately accuse Nixon and Bush of being evil and tyrannical.


No... I said they are the same. You look up to your leaders because of their suit or haircut or whatever, however, just like Saddam gassed the Kurds (During the 80's when the US was it's Ally and paid 3 billion to him so he could by John Deer Tractors to use on some "recently acquired" kurdish lands....) All the Presidents perhaps besides Jimmy Carter terrorized and slaughtered hundreds of thousands, if not millions, and I certainly don't have to get into each and every one... I'll throw out Vietnam, Nicaragua, Guatemala, the Invasion of Grenada, Libya, east Timor, Cambodia, Iraq War I. They write songs about these you know, sad song about the dead that never get report on American TV screens... (Death you cause never sells, but like I say, luck me I live outside of your media machine)


What freedom. The Iraqi's had no freedom for the American's to take. In case you don't realize America is trying to establish a democracy based on freedom.


Actually, it's called "invading a country for the pretenses of liberation, during which, you milk the country of resources, in this case, oil..." Kinda like Independance Day, God, if only there were leaders left in the world with morals....


There has never been peaceful coexistence or brotherhood. Since the beginning of time there has been war. The US couldn't ahve destroyed brotherhood and coexistence because there has never been any, or do you forget the Worlds Wars, the NApoleanic Wars, the Hundred Years War, the 30 Years War, and every other war that has taken place for time immemorial.


If you are not striving towards peaceful coexistence, then what are you fighting towards? More war? That's the most self-defeating character destroying statement I have ever heard. It's almost sad that you can think "Well, war happens, and it's our job to cause this one so someone else won't.". What the hell are you saying? Do you hear that?


So you're a pacifist unless the enemy is American or capitalist? That's not hypocritical at all. Everybody pacifistic to those who agree with them.


No... Again, you make swathing statements. I am saying, if you were to invade my country and kill my neighbours and bomb my church and shoot people in the streets and subjugate them, bringing with you new toys and buy out our leaders with bribes and cushy perks(Like the Nazi Germany did to the French Vichy Government), then what choice do I have? Even with overwhelming odds and absolutely no chance of success, I would have bought my family one more minute to be free and unsubjugated by the invading army. That's called "FREEDOM FIGHTING", it is what "THEY ARE DOING" and I hope "THEY WIN". Then they can create the government they want to. It's their country, not yours.


Are you comparing the American's and the Nazis? What????

You know what that reply has degenerated to irrationality. There's nothing I could say that would be heeded by you in the least.

How could you not? You live in the country, so I suspect you don't have a chance to read or watch news from outside your country, however, yes. Your Corporations run your country, they are starting to show you their Godhood and all the while they are running your country into the dirt. You've removed several important articles from your constitution and liternally on Dec 9th, 2004 finally allowed your government to form a police state. Outside, the independant commission on 9/11 deduced that it was most likely orchestrated by the American Government, as Oklahoma was and the first Trade Center bombing.

The Oil supply must be protected by the US to win a war against the outside world, since the inside world pretty much has given up and has agreed to remove most of their liberties. Then you start a series of wars for those resources and to make other governments more compliant. Well, luckily that will only last so long. Fuck dude, Hitler burned the Reichstag, I mean, don't you read history? Don't you know this?

Remember now, The Police or any law enforcement official in your country and enter your home, look around, take things and leave without even having to inform you. Congratulations on your new country, hope you like it.

No Arab nations have. In Southeast Asia, though, look at Indonesia. Or Turkey in the Middle East.

Indonesia was a military dictatorship, just had a real election and may possibly slip into a dictatorship again. It's not like we're talking about a long track record. Turkey is still a military dictatorship. Both are also harboring lots of Al Qaeda cells.

All I have to say is if Democracy was in the Koran every Islamic Nation would be one. Like women's rights it's really tough to make it part of the Islamic world. It's not like the US wants democracy in Iraq anyway. The Sunni would just vote for Saddam and the Shia would just vote to become part of Iran.

On a personal note I would just like to say you Brits have no room to talk about the US on Democracy. "New Labor" is controlled by The City, Shell, and BP. The Queen through financial proxy holds a good deal of "Influence" over them. Congratulations, hundreds of years after Cromwell your freaking peasants again. It's a lot nicer to be a peasant than it was before, but your still peasants. :D

Turkey isn't a military dictatorship.

Its not a true democracy, either, but its the closest a state in the Middle East besides Israel is right now. In Turkey, though, a moderate Islamist won the last election, and he wasn't the armys preferred candidate. They want to get into the EU, which means the army can't meddle around as much in politics anymore.

Turkey isn't a military dictatorship.

Its not a true democracy, either, but its the closest a state in the Middle East besides Israel is right now. In Turkey, though, a moderate Islamist won the last election, and he wasn't the armys preferred candidate. They want to get into the EU, which means the army can't meddle around as much in politics anymore.

Well last time I was in Turkey back in 2001 it was a dictatorship, and hopefully someday it will be a complete democracy. It's not like I didn't enjoy being in Istanbul, it's a great city and if your traveling on a business account and staying at great hotels it's really nice and the Turks are wonderful people.

Actually traveling on business I been to a lot of less than free nations. If I had to choose between Mexico, (which America considers to be free) and Turkey to live in, I'd probably go with Istanbul.

Oh and though I made reference to Tony Blair's head being up the ASS of business I'd go back to live in England in a heartbeat. I mis England.

Should we have not aided the Afgani's when they were invaded by the USSR?

The question is, do you prefer communism of terrorism? That should answer your question.