NationStates Jolt Archive

Indonesia is the largest Moslem nation in the world. It is certainly suffering at the moment. Why can't the oil-rich Arabs donate more than a token amount of aid to the relief efforts?

It's hard to collect information from one place, but it looks like the countries of Saudi Arabia, Gutter, Kuwait, and Abu Dhabi can only manage about $10 million apiece. Bahrain could only pony up for $2 million. The UAE leads the Arabs with a pledge of $20 million. That's not very impressive from countries that run budget surpluses in the billions of dollars. Sandra Bullock has pledged a million, for Pete's sake!

Maybe is just plain old racism since the Indonesians aren't Arab?

Muslim nations are for the most part evil, so you can't really expect too much out of them.

Indonesia is the largest Moslem nation in the world. It is certainly suffering at the moment. Why can't the oil-rich Arabs donate more than a token amount of aid to the relief efforts?

It's hard to collect information from one place, but it looks like the countries of Saudi Arabia, Gutter, Kuwait, and Abu Dhabi can only manage about $10 million apiece. Bahrain could only pony up for $2 million. The UAE leads the Arabs with a pledge of $20 million. That's not very impressive from countries that run budget surpluses in the billions of dollars. Sandra Bullock has pledged a million, for Pete's sake!

Maybe is just plain old racism since the Indonesians aren't Arab?

The Arabs are, and always will be, a little people, a silly people.

Indonesia is the largest Moslem nation in the world. It is certainly suffering at the moment. Why can't the oil-rich Arabs donate more than a token amount of aid to the relief efforts?

It's hard to collect information from one place, but it looks like the countries of Saudi Arabia, Gutter, Kuwait, and Abu Dhabi can only manage about $10 million apiece. Bahrain could only pony up for $2 million. The UAE leads the Arabs with a pledge of $20 million. That's not very impressive from countries that run budget surpluses in the billions of dollars. Sandra Bullock has pledged a million, for Pete's sake!

Maybe is just plain old racism since the Indonesians aren't Arab?

Well, I'm not too knowledgeable about middle eastern politics, but i think a few of those countries are ruled by dictatorships. Saudi Arabia, certainly. If the money within the countries was distributed more equally I think we would see more being donated towards the disaster.

Indonesia is the largest Moslem nation in the world. It is certainly suffering at the moment. Why can't the oil-rich Arabs donate more than a token amount of aid to the relief efforts?

It's hard to collect information from one place, but it looks like the countries of Saudi Arabia, Gutter, Kuwait, and Abu Dhabi can only manage about $10 million apiece. Bahrain could only pony up for $2 million. The UAE leads the Arabs with a pledge of $20 million. That's not very impressive from countries that run budget surpluses in the billions of dollars. Sandra Bullock has pledged a million, for Pete's sake!

Maybe is just plain old racism since the Indonesians aren't Arab?
The Saudi government claims it's because so many muslim charities were shut down due to funding terrorism. They have pledged 10 milion. The Kuaitis have pledged the same. Still, the red crescent should be able to send quite a bit of help. Saudis are still allowed to donate to it. They just aren't.

Indonesia is the largest Moslem nation in the world. It is certainly suffering at the moment. Why can't the oil-rich Arabs donate more than a token amount of aid to the relief efforts?

Maybe is just plain old racism since the Indonesians aren't Arab?

First, it's MUSLIM.

Second, why can't the oil-rich money-grubbing american government (well, governors) donate more?

You people should get a clear and unbiased view of the world around you before you make ignorant questions and comments like the ones above.

Muslim nations are for the most part evil, so you can't really expect too much out of them.

I have to say i agree! Although, to be honest, there are probably many Muslims living throughout France, Britain and the US etc. that may have contributed - if you were implying little help from the Muslim people, that is.

Governments can't be expected to donate huge amounts as what would the incentive be for others such as the general public or charities to donate?
My view is that human nature will always intervene for the good.

Indonesia is the largest Moslem nation in the world. It is certainly suffering at the moment. Why can't the oil-rich Arabs donate more than a token amount of aid to the relief efforts?

It's hard to collect information from one place, but it looks like the countries of Saudi Arabia, Gutter, Kuwait, and Abu Dhabi can only manage about $10 million apiece. Bahrain could only pony up for $2 million. The UAE leads the Arabs with a pledge of $20 million. That's not very impressive from countries that run budget surpluses in the billions of dollars. Sandra Bullock has pledged a million, for Pete's sake!

Maybe is just plain old racism since the Indonesians aren't Arab?

Simple, most Arab countries have little or no income tax and no tax surplus, so they don't have fifty kazillion dollars to donate. The donations that are coming out of those countries are typically coming out of the personal coffers of their rulers, or are being diverted from other planned uses. Besides, one of the pillars of Islam is charity, and imams all over the ME have been calling on their followers to donate and help. The tradition in that part of the world is that society, not government, should step up and offer aid following these types of disasters. That may seem a little odd to westerners who have grown used to governments donating millions or billions following every minor disaster, but it's an ingrained tradition in that part of the world...the belief is that if you sit back and expect the government to help those in need, then you are ignoring your charitable duties to Allah and are going to hell.

The governments of Muslim nations generally accept the religion as a way to justify and perpetuate the oppression of the arab population. Now they will come to the aid of fellow dictators.

First, it's MUSLIM.

Second, why can't the oil-rich money-grubbing american government (well, governors) donate more?

You people should get a clear and unbiased view of the world around you before you make ignorant questions and comments like the ones above.
Oil rich American government? What the hell are you talking about?


350 million dollars from a nation who is in massive debt.

20 million from a whole bunch of nations who are rolling in the dough.

First, it's MUSLIM.

Second, why can't the oil-rich money-grubbing american government (well, governors) donate more?

You people should get a clear and unbiased view of the world around you before you make ignorant questions and comments like the ones above.

Woah, the American government did pay a lot of money. Let's not start THAT debate again! Muslim nations have not donated a lot, although I disagree with the reasons that Myrmidonisia puts forward.

Oil rich American government? What the hell are you talking about?


350 million dollars from a nation who is in massive debt.

20 million from a whole bunch of nations who are rolling in the dough.


Guess we can't please everyone. If we gave 5 billion it still wouldn't be enough for the rest of the world. Esp to some of the people here on NS. :)

First, it's MUSLIM.

Second, why can't the oil-rich money-grubbing american government (well, governors) donate more?

You people should get a clear and unbiased view of the world around you before you make ignorant questions and comments like the ones above.
Over three hundren million is quite alot. Plus there will probably be more forthcoming. Plus there are two aurcraft carriers battlegroups on the way to provide hospital services and clean water.

Indonesia is the largest Moslem nation in the world. It is certainly suffering at the moment. Why can't the oil-rich Arabs donate more than a token amount of aid to the relief efforts?

It's hard to collect information from one place, but it looks like the countries of Saudi Arabia, Gutter, Kuwait, and Abu Dhabi can only manage about $10 million apiece. Bahrain could only pony up for $2 million. The UAE leads the Arabs with a pledge of $20 million. That's not very impressive from countries that run budget surpluses in the billions of dollars. Sandra Bullock has pledged a million, for Pete's sake!

Maybe is just plain old racism since the Indonesians aren't Arab?

The Saudis could certainly afford to give more, but keep a little perspective when it comes to the Gulf States: They are TINY countries, with TINY populations. The UAE, for instance, is about 2.5 million people, of which ca. 1.5 million are fairly destitute "guest workers". Per person, the aid pledge of the UAE is in the global top 5. Perhaps racism is a factor in that the pledges could be higher, but it could just as well be that people have their consciousness directed elsewhere, to the turmoil in the region in which they live.

I know the US gave that much but I wonder what they are getting in return...

The governments of Muslim nations generally accept the religion as a way to justify and perpetuate the oppression of the arab population. Now they will come to the aid of fellow dictators.

What "fellow dictators" are you talking about? Nations like Indonesia may not be model democracies, but they are hardly dictatorships?

It's one thing to say that the people, and not just the governments, should contribute and that income tax is a factor but what is stopping people (especially the oil rich rulers in the house of Saud) from contributing? In the UK, for example, the citizens have actually contributed MORE money than the UK government. If people in these supposedly devout and giving dictatorships wanted to contribute then it is up to them to find a way. So their dictatorial government dosn't want them to? So what? Havn't they ever heard of revolutions? Yeah its not easy but even the French managed to have one! The fact is, people all over are lazy and scared of their governments and they havn't got the guts to fight and they havn't got the heart to care about other people's problems. Don't expect much from them. Get out on the streets with a tin can and start collecting round your local mosques if you're really bothered.

It's one thing to say that the people, and not just the governments, should contribute and that income tax is a factor but what is stopping people (especially the oil rich rulers in the house of Saud) from contributing? In the UK, for example, the citizens have actually contributed MORE money than the UK government. If people in these supposedly devout and giving dictatorships wanted to contribute then it is up to them to find a way. So their dictatorial government dosn't want them to? So what? Havn't they ever heard of revolutions? Yeah its not easy but even the French managed to have one! The fact is, people all over are lazy and scared of their governments and they havn't got the guts to fight and they havn't got the heart to care about other people's problems. Don't expect much from them. Get out on the streets with a tin can and start collecting round your local mosques if you're really bothered.

It's not that dictatorships are stopping people from donating as such. They just have most of the money, while the majority of their citizens are impoverished.

And the House of Saud hasn't given much money for the simple reason that they want to keep it to themselves.

Well, think of it this way.

The Muslims's are (mostly) fighting insurgencies in their own natiosn by Al Qaeda and stuff. The few nations that aren't are either poor as dirt(Bangladesh for example) or are fighting an all out war against an alliance of Tribes and Terrorists(Pakistan).

You are also forgetting Malaysia. They have donated stuff. I think.

It's one thing to say that the people, and not just the governments, should contribute and that income tax is a factor but what is stopping people (especially the oil rich rulers in the house of Saud) from contributing? In the UK, for example, the citizens have actually contributed MORE money than the UK government. If people in these supposedly devout and giving dictatorships wanted to contribute then it is up to them to find a way. So their dictatorial government dosn't want them to? So what? Havn't they ever heard of revolutions? Yeah its not easy but even the French managed to have one! The fact is, people all over are lazy and scared of their governments and they havn't got the guts to fight and they havn't got the heart to care about other people's problems. Don't expect much from them. Get out on the streets with a tin can and start collecting round your local mosques if you're really bothered.

Revolutions rarely happen when the vast majority of people is (relatively) rich and content... :p Seriously though, unless you've actually seen collection figures for the Red Crescent in the region etc., I don't think saying that they are not giving as private citizens is a fair assumption.

Muslim , get it right

What "fellow dictators" are you talking about? Nations like Indonesia may not be model democracies, but they are hardly dictatorships?

I thought the point of this is how Muslim nations are not coming to the aid of Indonesia. My point is that the Muslim dictatorships do not care about the welfare of other Muslim nations, only the welfare of other dictatorships.

I thought the point of this is how Muslim nations are not coming to the aid of Indonesia. My point is that the Muslim dictatorships do not care about the welfare of other Muslim nations, only the welfare of other dictatorships.

Ah misinterpretation on my part. Well, if they didn't care at all, they wouldn't have given any thing at all though?

There are people and then there are Governments. Your just lumping them all together. The people of Indonesia are definetly in the thoughts, hearts and prayers of good Muslims across the globe. Considering what the US spends on defense, the $300 million [thats what they donated last time I heard] towards saving lives is a mere fraction of the money spent on destroying lives. If you read the Koran [or Quron, not sure of spelling] Muslim's are actually obliged to give aid to the poor, and are often far more charitable and hospitable than their Christian neighbours.

Muslim nations are for the most part evil, so you can't really expect too much out of them.
You know, I hate it when people say that. Why? Because they're not evil. Yes, the people in power in them have different morals, but who are we to judge their society? And who are we to judge their religion? They see the United States as evil; does that make us evil? No. So why should the way we see them make them so? Because we're more powerful? That's not fair or right, and you know it.

Simple math.

If a country has 350 million people and everyone ponies up a dollar, that country gives 350 million dollars. Everyone says, "WOW!"

If another country has 3 million people and everyone ponies up two dollars, that country gives 6 million dollars. Everyone says, "STINGEY BASTARDS!!!"

However, we already know that the original post was intended to start a "Let's bash Muslims" fest and I have my doubts that the original poster could give two shits about the people in Indonesia.

It's one thing to say that the people, and not just the governments, should contribute and that income tax is a factor but what is stopping people (especially the oil rich rulers in the house of Saud) from contributing?
What makes you think they're not? In all likelyhood, most of the money pledged by the Saudi's comes from the House of Saud's personal fortune. The Saudi, Kuwaiti, and other Arab governments aren't particularly wealthy...the real money is in the pockets of the people that run those governments. The money donated by the Middle Eastern Muslims themselves would have gone to the Red Crescent or any of a dozen other Muslim relief agencies, and wouldn't have been included in your figures. For all we know, they could have given a billion dollars by now.

Guys, though I detest Rusch Limbaugh, he made a very interesting point yesterday; you can't just throw all of the money at them at once. That's too big a target for people to not take advantage of. Corruption and siphoning off of funds will abound. That's why you can't just through it all at once.

Well, if you figure there are over 1 billion muslims, and a lot of those in Indonesia, then if everyone came up with a dollar...

but most of those people live in Third World hellholes, so maybe everyone comes up with 1 cent

but there ARE a few rich Arab countries

but weren't we criticizing Bush for this a minute ago

and now that the US is giving a chunk of change, we have to turn around and slap someone else

how do we know that's all those nations will give?

they very well might give more over time

First, it's MUSLIM.

Second, why can't the oil-rich money-grubbing american government (well, governors) donate more?

You people should get a clear and unbiased view of the world around you before you make ignorant questions and comments like the ones above.

Don't worry, we're donating plenty to you via the war on terror. Sorry if we're a bit busy right now.

That should count for something in your anti-america, anti-free enterprise eyes.

However, we already know that the original post was intended to start a "Let's bash Muslims" fest and I have my doubts that the original poster could give two shits about the people in Indonesia.

This is true. The early posts make that clear enough. Personally, I don't think you can ever use the word "evil" in any meaningful way but when you direct it against an entire faith it looks pretty stupid.

Muslim , get it right

While we're on that subject...

It's hard to collect information from one place, but it looks like the countries of Saudi Arabia, Gutter, Kuwait, and Abu Dhabi can only manage about $10 million apiece.

It's commonly transliterated as 'Qatar'.

While we're on that subject...



It's commonly transliterated as 'Qatar'.
And Abu Dhabi isn't a country.

And Abu Dhabi isn't a country.

Well, realistically speaking, neither is Sierra Leone, or Liberia, or even Haiti.

Well, realistically speaking, neither is Sierra Leone, or Liberia, or even Haiti.

On what grounds?

Simple math.

If a country has 350 million people and everyone ponies up a dollar, that country gives 350 million dollars. Everyone says, "WOW!"

If another country has 3 million people and everyone ponies up two dollars, that country gives 6 million dollars. Everyone says, "STINGEY BASTARDS!!!"

However, we already know that the original post was intended to start a "Let's bash Muslims" fest and I have my doubts that the original poster could give two shits about the people in Indonesia.


Wrong. I bought my pound of Sumatra coffee from Starbucks. For the ignorant, Starbucks will donate $2 for every pound of Sumatra coffee sold. I also pay plenty to the U.S. government, who is quite generous in its aid to the third and fourth worlds.

I just wanted to stir things up and hyperbole always does. I did post some numbers about who was giving what in the Arabic MUSLIM, excuse me, world. I just think that wealthy countries should do what they can to aid poor nations.

These aren't poor countries, by any stretch of the definintion for 'poor'. Kuwait is running a budget surplus this year of 10 BILLION dollars. Surely a few million for their MUSLIM brethren isn't going to break them.

Don't get me wrong bashing a MUSLIM is always fun. But they deserve real criticism in this case and trite posts like yours are just excuses for discussion.

There are quite a lot of trolls in this thread you'll do well to ignore - life's too short. In answer to the question consider this hypothesis: the ruling elites of Arab monarchies/despots, etcetera are indeed oil-rich, but this wealth is concentrated in the have of a very small number of people (i.e. the "royal" family and court).

They are large countries but they have smallish populations, and the vast majority of the ordinary people barely have a pot to pee in compared to us in the Democratic industrial West, who by and large have plenty of disposable income to contribute.

As for governments, our elected leaders find it easy to donate money as it is after all not personally theirs but ours, the electorate. The Monarchy/Despot, however, consider the treasury their own personal wealth so they tighten up. It is not a culture, a faith or a race that is at fault then, but a mixture of poverty and despotic government.

Don't get me wrong bashing a MUSLIM is always fun.


Eh? Care to explain why?

Giving these countries money is a complete waste of time. Obviously God wants them dead or else He wouldn't have killed so many of them in such a spectacular manner. I think we (US & allies) should perform our duty as God's hand on earth and finish them off with a heavy round of bombings. That'll teach them. Then we could occupy, I mean liberate, them. All of that money wasted on "relief" could be used for the liberation project. I mean, we need more corporate call centers somewhere. Besides, they have to have some resources we could use, right?

In answer to the question: the ruling elites of Arab monarchies such as Saudi Arabia, etcetera are indeed oil-rich, but this wealth is concentrated in the have of a very small number of people (i.e. the royal family and court).

In agreement with you there -

Question: How did these ruling elites get so rich?

Answer: Not by handing out money every time something bad happens to another human being.

On what grounds?

http://dieoff.org/page67.htm

These are not real "countries". They are places, certainly. They have completely ineffectual governments. They are lines drawn on a map.

They are places of chaos without any real meaning in the international sense.

While we're on that subject...



It's commonly transliterated as 'Qatar'.

It's silly to see the lengths that people go to to correct pronunciation. These are phonetic translations. If the word is not supposed to be pronounced like 'katar', don't spell it that way. Spell it like it sounds, or like it looks -- Gutter! Yes, I've been to the wonderful Arab world and I never want to go back.

What about part two of my post? Are the Arabs racist in limiting their aid because Indonesians aren't Arab?

Eh? Care to explain why?
Because it's the most backwards of the monotheistic religions. The islamic world is generally worse than the bible belt.

Muslim nations are for the most part evil, so you can't really expect too much out of them.

Oh. Shut. Up.
Stereotype much?

Well if it's a phonetic translation we're after (i don't have the "schwa" .. the upside-down e that sounds like "uh"), wouldn't Qatar be "Kuht'r"?

i mean... is it a K or a G?

Well if it's a phonetic translation we're after (i don't have the "schwa" .. the upside-down e that sounds like "uh"), wouldn't Qatar be "Kuht'r"?

i mean... is it a K or a G?

also

is that evil bastard's name best translated with a U or an O?

Usama or Osama?

I've heard that the United States refers to him officially as Usama, as does Fox News.

But nearly every other time I've seen his name spelled, it's been as "Osama".

Does his name, to someone who speaks Arabic, sound more like Usama or Osama?

If the word is not supposed to be pronounced like 'katar', don't spell it that way.
Typical Yank - not content with demolishing the English language, now you want to dumb down other's. ;)

How do you spell your nation name again? LOL

http://dieoff.org/page67.htm

These are not real "countries". They are places, certainly. They have completely ineffectual governments. They are lines drawn on a map.

They are places of chaos without any real meaning in the international sense.

Although this might be a valid argument, it doesn't seem to apply to those countries at present... when's that article from?

The Atlantic Monthly, February 1994

Lets have a look at something just a little more up to date here before we start claiming that certain countries are or are not 'proper' countries, why not?

CIA FACTBOOK 2004 (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/)

LIBERIA - "A transitional government - composed of rebel, government, and civil society groups - assumed control in October 2003. Chairman Gyude BRYANT, who has a two-year mandate to oversee efforts to rebuild Liberia, heads the new government."

SIERRA LEONE - "National elections were held in May 2002 and the government continues to slowly reestablish its authority. "

HAITI - "Constitution: approved March 1987; suspended June 1988 with most articles reinstated March 1989; in October 1991 government claimed to be observing the constitution; returned to constitutional rule in October 1994"

Eh? Care to explain why?
Risked my life to defend and liberate them.
Lived in lousy segregated housing afterwards.
Wasn't allowed in public wearing my uniform.
Chased by religous police while exercising in shorts and a t-shirt.
Watched a man beat up his wife because she looked at a bunch of us.
Couldn't buy real beer, except in Bahrain. There it was too expensive.

Okay, maybe I just hate Arabs. Maybe just Saudis and Kuwaitis. It's easier to generalize to all muslims, though.

Well, realistically speaking, neither is Sierra Leone, or Liberia, or even Haiti.
They are recognized as countries. Abu Dhabi ain't. It's a goddamn city.

If the word is not supposed to be pronounced like 'katar', don't spell it that way. Spell it like it sounds, or like it looks -- Gutter!

Fair enough. How are things going in the Yewesseh for you then?

Watched a man beat up his wife because she looked at a bunch of us.

...

Okay, maybe I just hate Arabs. Maybe just Saudis and Kuwaitis. It's easier to generalize to all muslims, though.

If you were to actually hate all Muslims, why would the wife-beating disturb you?

Okay, maybe I just hate Arabs. Maybe just Saudis and Kuwaitis. It's easier to generalize to all muslims, though.
Which makes you a...

Damn. There's no word like racist or sexist that applies to religion, is there?

Guess I'll have to use bigot instead.

Don't worry, we're donating plenty to you via the war on terror. Sorry if we're a bit busy right now.

That should count for something in your anti-america, anti-free enterprise eyes.

How IS that war working out for you? Almost as effective as your war on drugs, I hope.

Okay, maybe I just hate Arabs.
Why, were you once raped by goat herder or something? You got issues - you need to relax, get out once in a while.

The Arabs are, and always will be, a little people, a silly people.

Thank-you, massuh sir, for clearing that up. Nothing like a little Superiority Complex to get you through the day...

A little off topic (in terms of not dealing with a Muslim nation), but why is no one oohing and ahhing over Japan, who has given $500 million so far compared to the $350 million the Americans have (so far) doled out? I'm pretty impressed by that, but all I hear on the news (even in Canada) is about how much the U.S is giving. I'm happy that ANY country is giving money to help relieve this catastrophe, but if people want to start measuring donations, let's applaude the Japanese a little too.

If you were to actually hate all Muslims, why would the wife-beating disturb you?

Man, I hate logic.

Why, were you once raped by goat herder or something? You got issues - you need to relax, get out once in a while.
Almost as bad. I was a Marine.

There are quite a lot of trolls in this thread you'll do well to ignore - life's too short. In answer to the question consider this hypothesis: the ruling elites of Arab monarchies/despots, etcetera are indeed oil-rich, but this wealth is concentrated in the have of a very small number of people (i.e. the "royal" family and court).

Wow, this reply kinda summed it all up for me.

Not all arabs are rich... Just those in charge of the oil. The rest of the country is rather barren. And of course their stingy.

And to give 350 million, could possibly be the entire GDP of Malaysia in a year!

Well if it's a phonetic translation we're after (i don't have the "schwa" .. the upside-down e that sounds like "uh"), wouldn't Qatar be "Kuht'r"?

i mean... is it a K or a G?

also

is that evil bastard's name best translated with a U or an O?

Usama or Osama?

I've heard that the United States refers to him officially as Usama, as does Fox News.

But nearly every other time I've seen his name spelled, it's been as "Osama".

Does his name, to someone who speaks Arabic, sound more like Usama or Osama?

Usama is the proper name.

The actual charcater is: " أ " with a " ُ " on top..

This should be pronounced [oo]

And "Qatar" cannot be pronounced correctly by native English speakers.

It is spelled " قطر ", the " ق " sound (first character from right), is not present in the English language.

A little off topic (in terms of not dealing with a Muslim nation), but why is no one oohing and ahhing over Japan, who has given $500 million so far compared to the $350 million the Americans have (so far) doled out? I'm pretty impressed by that, but all I hear on the news (even in Canada) is about how much the U.S is giving. I'm happy that ANY country is giving money to help relieve this catastrophe, but if people want to start measuring donations, let's applaude the Japanese a little too.

I wonder if the $350 million that was pledged by the US includes the all of the in-kind expenses? Things like the troops and transport that are provided by the military. I think the C130 crashing into the water buffalo probably expended $20 million, or so of aid. Thanks to the UAE, the Indonesians can buy us a new one!

By the way, the French have pledged about $4 million in Evian water.

Oops, we're getting off track.

To sum up,

The Arab Muslims won't donate more than a token amount because they are:
too poor and can't afford it, or
too rich and can't make the poor subjects feel worse than they do already.
silly and little, or
rich because they don't donate to every petty cause.
following the Koran, which encourages alms to the poor, as does the Bible. It sets the limit at $20 million for charity and hospitality, but Christian nations must give until they become poverty-stricken.
they are among the most backwards of religons, but not as bad as the people that voted for GWB.

The name of the country that sounds like Gutter, but is spelled Qatar, can't be pronounced by the native born English speaking. Doesn't have anything to do with Indonisia, but it's interesting.

Abu Dhabi isn't a country. I don't know what it is, but I'll look it up. I promise.

What "fellow dictators" are you talking about? Nations like Indonesia may not be model democracies, but they are hardly dictatorships?The OPEC countries are dictatorships, exept Venezuela and Iran.

I wonder if the $350 million that was pledged by the US includes the all of the in-kind expenses? Things like the troops and transport that are provided by the military. I think the C130 crashing into the water buffalo probably expended $20 million, or so of aid. Thanks to the UAE, the Indonesians can buy us a new one.

Best example: Iraq.

Which makes you a...

Damn. There's no word like racist or sexist that applies to religion, is there?

Guess I'll have to use bigot instead.
The word you are looking for is "sectarian".

Maybe is just plain old racism since the Indonesians aren't Arab?
Or maybe they are just like every other nation, looking out for themselves.

That's the problem with the world. People see their countries and their race or religion over all other things.

People should see themselves as a species trying to survive on Earth. Together would be much easier than against one another.


I'm from the world. I'm human and (maybe not so) proud of it.

Indonesia is the largest Moslem nation in the world. It is certainly suffering at the moment. Why can't the oil-rich Arabs donate more than a token amount of aid to the relief efforts?

It's hard to collect information from one place, but it looks like the countries of Saudi Arabia, Gutter, Kuwait, and Abu Dhabi can only manage about $10 million apiece. Bahrain could only pony up for $2 million. The UAE leads the Arabs with a pledge of $20 million. That's not very impressive from countries that run budget surpluses in the billions of dollars. Sandra Bullock has pledged a million, for Pete's sake!

Maybe is just plain old racism since the Indonesians aren't Arab?

Probably the same reason that the US [mainly christian] doesn't help Brazil [mainly christian].

Probably the same reason that the US [mainly christian] doesn't help Brazil [mainly christian].
What natural disaster is Brazil recovering from?

What natural disaster is Brazil recovering from?
Widespread erosion resulting from massive deforestation. Oh wait. That's not a natural disaster. That was participated by the good old US of A. They're also hit by hurricanes every damn year.

The word you are looking for is "sectarian".

Nah: that's more to do with conflict between sects within a religion: thus the Northern Ireland 'troubles' when viewed as Protestant (Christian) against Catholic (Christian) are seen as sectarian. Conflict between Sunni and Shia Muslims would similarly be described as sectarian, but the word doesn't really cover inter-religious strife or bias.

Widespread erosion resulting from massive deforestation. Oh wait. That's not a natural disaster. That was participated by the good old US of A. They're also hit by hurricanes every damn year.
Think of emergency aid as a world insurance policy. Insurance pays to replace property in the event of an unlikely, but devastating event. Like an earthquake or tidal wave. If the Brazilians suffered from either of those problems, guess who would be first in line to help them out?

On the other hand, if the Brazilians decided to cut down all their trees to make a few bucks, they should have forseen the consequences. It takes two parties to make a sale, anyway. Now, if you tell me that this was the result of the stupid 'War on Drugs', then I agree that we do owe them something. Maybe Kudzu. That's a good ground cover.

How many Georgians do we have reading?

[QUOTE=Sinuhue]A little off topic (in terms of not dealing with a Muslim nation), but why is no one oohing and ahhing over Japan, who has given $500 million so far compared to the $350 million the Americans have (so far) doled out? QUOTE]

To really put things in perspective Sweden donated an amount of 530 Msek = 100 MUS$ with a population of 10 million this gives 10 US$/capita compared to the 1 US$/capita from the americans. SO GET OF YOUR HIGH HORSES. The UN has a desency limit of 0.7% of the GNP on a yearly basis. US could never ever claim to be among the more generous nations.

Funny enough swedish television today had a report on how states finally pay up for given promises. It seems like a lot of countries tend to promise a lot in the tearfull moment but when it finally comes down to paying the memory is weak. EX earthqauke in Bam in Iran 7500 Msek where promised, today 119 Msek or 1.6% has been delivered. In Afghanistan 30 000 Msek were promised for the year 2004 of which only 3500 was remembered. When Mitch hit Central America 18 000 Msek was loudly and sacredly given as promise in a five year period from the worldleaders. 25% has come to the nicarguans and hondurians in this 5 year period. (For those of you how speak swedish http://svt.se/svt/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=22568) But Kofi Annan has a synic hope that this time more money will acctually be delivered as a lot of western tourist were killed and that this will give a stronger political influence.

+
All of you over-proud from the land of the brave and the free who dare to trash arabs and muslims in this thread as not generous enough, guess which country is worst on paying up for there promises? It's not Japan!

Forgive me the big majority of americans with compassion and information from outside your local redneck town, i know you have rough times, but a lot of these notes really pissed me off.

I wonder were the mods are???! In this thread there has already been a lot of blatant ethnic-hate.

To really put things in perspective Sweden donated an amount of 530 Msek = 100 MUS$ with a population of 10 million this gives 10 US$/capita compared to the 1 US$/capita from the americans. SO GET OF YOUR HIGH HORSES. The UN has a desency limit of 0.7% of the GNP on a yearly basis. US could never ever claim to be among the more generous nations.

You should add the private contributions by American industry and charitable donations by individuals. It would be interesting to see how that compares to corporate and individual donations from other countries. By the way, how is all this aid being distributed? I think the US plays a very large part in it. And as far as the UN goes, it is a sham, a fraud, a haven of corruption. There are no words to describe the depths to which the UN has sunk. Maybe Kofi could donate some of the money he skimmed from the Iraqi Oil-for-UN program.

I wonder were the mods are???! In this thread there has already been a lot of blatant ethnic-hate.

My, you are awfully sensitive to some strong talk. That's about all it is, too. Handle your problems like a man and confront the hate-mongers directly. Don't wait for someone else to magically make your problems disappear.

I wonder were the mods are???! In this thread there has already been a lot of blatant ethnic-hate.

This site recognises racism as a (possibly) valid political viewpoint, so I doubt that this thread would cause any ripples.

You should add the private contributions by American industry and charitable donations by individuals. It would be interesting to see how that compares to corporate and individual donations from other countries. By the way, how is all this aid being distributed? I think the US plays a very large part in it. And as far as the UN goes, it is a sham, a fraud, a haven of corruption. There are no words to describe the depths to which the UN has sunk. Maybe Kofi could donate some of the money he skimmed from the Iraqi Oil-for-UN program.



My, you are awfully sensitive to some strong talk. That's about all it is, too. Handle your problems like a man and confront the hate-mongers directly. Don't wait for someone else to magically make your problems disappear.

a) Yes, it would be interesting to measure private donations. Got any reliable source of information?
b) Go find out how many childreen in Iraq died before the oil for food program was implemented. Before you blast it, at least have the decency to recognize its intentions.

Nah: that's more to do with conflict between sects within a religion: thus the Northern Ireland 'troubles' when viewed as Protestant (Christian) against Catholic (Christian) are seen as sectarian. Conflict between Sunni and Shia Muslims would similarly be described as sectarian, but the word doesn't really cover inter-religious strife or bias.
Good point, have a (vegan) toffee

Yes it would be really interesting to see private numbers as well, but I don't have them. But you dont have one single number. Just assumption. Mostly erroneus.
Still the UN has done so much more than any other organisation or state. Acctually ending conflicts and bringing prosperity. It is widely know that the private and corporate donations you chariche so highly is if not a haven so a rainforest belt of coroption.

saying that "now when god has done half the job with the tsunami we should go in and bomb the rest of them" is far beyond racism. Bashing a muslim is always fun!?!? Did you sniff the glue to hard this morning?

Sadly I don't know of other ways than magic to make stupidities like I have read in this post disappear form this side of the ocean. But I guess survival of the fittest will take care fo that in the long run.

Typical Yank - not content with demolishing the English language, now you want to dumb down other's. ;)

How do you spell your nation name again? LOL

hehe

dude, the last word of your first sentence should read "others".

(I'm putting the period outside the quote because "others" is not a sentence on its own, and "others." is not a word. MLA/AP style authors, hear me now!)

Non-possessive, non-conjunction plural words do not need apostrophes.

Dogs

Girls

80s (80's would mean "eighty is" or "eighty was" or "eighty owns...".. actually should be '80s; besides, written out, the word is "eighties".. so "80s" seems right -- sans apostrophe)

Donkeys

Fields

etc.

hehe

While I'm being anal-retentive (hehe):

It's = it is

Who's = Who is

"everybody" is singular -- used in a sentence properly: "Everybody and his (not "their") brother will be there."

"Irregardless" is not a proper word; it is redundant.

"Regardless" means "without regard" .. so "Irregardless" would logically mean "completely dependent on..."

You'll notice that it has slithered its way into Webster's dictionary. But when you consider that Webster's is more a mirror of current speech than a guide to proper speech, that's not surprising. IF everyone started calling a leg a "fartlek" well... so too would Webster's.

The American Heritage Dictionary (think that's what it's called) totally rips on "Irregardless".

carry on. hehe

You know, I hate it when people say that. Why? Because they're not evil. Yes, the people in power in them have different morals, but who are we to judge their society? And who are we to judge their religion? They see the United States as evil; does that make us evil? No. So why should the way we see them make them so? Because we're more powerful? That's not fair or right, and you know it.
In a nutshell what you are saying is: they're allowed to hate everyone else, suppress basic human rights, and do, say or think what ever they want - but no one else is allowed to criticise them, even in the privacy of their own minds.
Look up 'hypocrisy' in a dictionary.

Muslim nations are for the most part evil, so you can't really expect too much out of them.
Umm yeah. The governments of most of these nations are corrupt and selfish beyond belief, so of course they don't care about "helping their fellow man". Bastards.

why is no one oohing and ahhing over Japan, who has given $500 million [snip] let's applaude the Japanese a little too.
Fair point. And thanks for bringing this up; I wouldn't have known that they'd been so generous otherwise!

First, it's MUSLIM.

Second, why can't the oil-rich money-grubbing american government (well, governors) donate more?

You people should get a clear and unbiased view of the world around you before you make ignorant questions and comments like the ones above.
The USA has given $350 million so far. I agree that they could give more, but by anyone's standards, that's pretty damn good.

You'll notice that it has slithered its way into Webster's dictionary. But when you consider that Webster's is more a mirror of current speech than a guide to proper speech, that's not surprising. IF everyone started calling a leg a "fartlek" well... so too would Webster's.

Check your Wittgenstein: meaning is use. If a linguistic community decides that 'fartlek' means 'leg', then 'fartlek' means 'leg'. There are greater problems with the world today than the aesthetic considerations that might be raised by the use of the word 'epicentre' to mean 'centre' or proactive' to mean 'active'.

Proper speech isn't a bogeyman or a hobgoblin: it is a phantom with no real existence.

Proper speech isn't a bogeyman or a hobgoblin: it is a phantom with no real existence.

I disagree. We make our own reality. If a linguistic community decides that their favorite form of speech is "proper," and enforce that belief widely, then it becomes such.

I do agree that calling a form of speech "proper" is nonsensical and ridiculously abitrary, however.

First, it's MUSLIM.

Second, why can't the oil-rich money-grubbing american government (well, governors) donate more?

You people should get a clear and unbiased view of the world around you before you make ignorant questions and comments like the ones above.
Average Americans arn't that wealthy. By comparison to other countries we are, but figure in our own food, homes, cars, education ect. we arn't that well off. Most 4 person families(husband wife 2 kids) make no more then $35,000 a year. Figure two kids in school (public schools) clothes $500-$1000(for both) plus supplies and some ammenities and medical 3-6000plus food $3000(per person)=12,000+10,000(from the previous things) thats 22,000 so far. Add any tax to that say .05% thats another $1100 ect. ect. In the end the average house is left with after taxes about $6000 to spend on extras. Figure 40% of pople are in debt in America and about 30% are in severe debt thats 70% in debt...we arn't all rich mall clogging coffee drinking stuck ups. So please don't always assume that we are. I'm 17 I work at a McDonalds I make about 21,000 a year I'm paying for car insurance $250 a month and houseing $550, taxes, food, gas, and other neccesities, but i still donated 2000 so please I know I'm more of an exception to the rule we arn't all greedy so please don't charecterise us as such.

a) Yes, it would be interesting to measure private donations. Got any reliable source of information?
b) Go find out how many childreen in Iraq died before the oil for food program was implemented. Before you blast it, at least have the decency to recognize its intentions.
We're way off topic again. There is another thread that discusses the inadequate aid from the US. We should stick to reasons why Muslims don't support other Muslims in need, despite the Koran requirements to do so.

Only data I could find on NGO donations to the tsunami was from usaid.gov. Totals are about $50 million, so far.

Incidentally, the planes, ships, and troops that the US has committed are above and beyond the $350 million in economic aid. That's something that no other nation can do.

I think I did mention GOVERNMENT.

I don't blame the american people for anything. Well, actually I blame about 50%, for voting republican.

But it's the "corporate police state"-style government that upsets me the most. Using religion and the fear of people as tools to empower themselves and to wage wars and to create instability for profit. And the unregulated business.

Yes it would be really interesting to see private numbers as well, but I don't have them. But you dont have one single number. Just assumption. Mostly erroneus.
Still the UN has done so much more than any other organisation or state. Acctually ending conflicts and bringing prosperity. It is widely know that the private and corporate donations you chariche so highly is if not a haven so a rainforest belt of coroption.


This is off the topic, but I can't resist. Name five conflicts the UN has stopped. Give five examples of countries that the UN has actually helped. The UN is just a bunch of third world hacks that have found a way to line their pockets at the expense of guilt ridden developed nations.

I disagree. We make our own reality. If a linguistic community decides that their favorite form of speech is "proper," and enforce that belief widely, then it becomes such.

I do agree that calling a form of speech "proper" is nonsensical and ridiculously abitrary, however.

I think we are closer to agreement than you state: I'm claiming that those who are claimed to define what is or is not 'proper' speech are not the grammarians or lexicographers, btu instead the linguistic community as a whole. When I refered to 'proper' speech as a phantom I was implying that the standards but forward by the grammarians and lexicographers are nothing but announcements of opinion.

Question: how do grammarians and lexicographers operate?

Answer: they look at how language is used around them, thus they do not prescribe usage, but instead record how words were used at a point in the past. It is pointless to appeal to this point in time as an authoritative one, as by its very nature language flows and changes as it is brought to bear in new situations.

Typical Yank - not content with demolishing the English language, now you want to dumb down other's. ;)

How do you spell your nation name again? LOL

When you're on a roll, why not?

I kind of like the name. I assume you've looked up the root word.

Muslim , get it right
is this some new PC thing that i missed?
last time i checked moslem was a perfectly acceptable variant of muslim

In my case, I didn't need to look up anything to see you liked Troy. :P