NationStates Jolt Archive

Pol-E-Charki Prison outside of Kabul is run by the Afghans - there are no Americans on the premises.

According to locals, "That is an Evil place where only Evil survives"

One interpreter (an older guy who actually went through the Russian Military Academy system years ago...) said that he would drown himself or belly out on a land mine before allowing himself to be taken there if that tells you anything.

So, would you rather be in Guantanamo Bay, or would you rather that the Americans sent you home to Afghanistan, where the local government would imprison you there?

The worse does not excuse the bad.
If this forum would cater to afghans as the majority it would be more relevant.

Pol-E-Charki Prison outside of Kabul is run by the Afghans - there are no Americans on the premises.

According to locals, "That is an Evil place where only Evil survives"

One interpreter (an older guy who actually went through the Russian Military Academy system years ago...) said that he would drown himself or belly out on a land mine before allowing himself to be taken there if that tells you anything.

So, would you rather be in Guantanamo Bay, or would you rather that the Americans sent you home to Afghanistan, where the local government would imprison you there?
Afghanistan and Iraq are Pupet Govs.

The worse does not excuse the bad.
If this forum would cater to afghans as the majority it would be more relevant.

Especially when the wrose has not changed or lied about itself, but the bad told the world it was the Good.

Then why would the US run Guantanamo Bay when they could have all those prisoners stay in the nastier prison of their puppet gov?

Pol-E-Charki Prison outside of Kabul is run by the Afghans - there are no Americans on the premises.

According to locals, "That is an Evil place where only Evil survives"

One interpreter (an older guy who actually went through the Russian Military Academy system years ago...) said that he would drown himself or belly out on a land mine before allowing himself to be taken there if that tells you anything.

So, would you rather be in Guantanamo Bay, or would you rather that the Americans sent you home to Afghanistan, where the local government would imprison you there?

Anyone taken in Afghanistan and held in Gitmo should be sent there.

Torture goes on in Guantanamo, it may well do in this other place. It's not a question of preference. We should question why people are sent to either facility in the first place. The US doesn't have the best human rights record now, does it ? Abu Ghraib is well documented, yet none of the people responsible (those higher up who authorised the torture) have been brought to justice.. The flagrant human rights abuses, torture and inhumane interrogation techniques employed at Guantanamo bay have now come to light.

If there were any americans working in that prison outside of Kabul, well they'd probably fit right in.

Then why would the US run Guantanamo Bay when they could have all those prisoners stay in the nastier prison of their puppet gov?
Because presumably the US govt has more control over Camp X-Ray than over Pol-E-Charki Prison.

Regarding the Afghan government, unfortunately they have very little power outside of Kabul. Most of the country is really run by warlords.

Pol-E-Charki Prison outside of Kabul is run by the Afghans - there are no Americans on the premises.

According to locals, "That is an Evil place where only Evil survives"

One interpreter (an older guy who actually went through the Russian Military Academy system years ago...) said that he would drown himself or belly out on a land mine before allowing himself to be taken there if that tells you anything.

So, would you rather be in Guantanamo Bay, or would you rather that the Americans sent you home to Afghanistan, where the local government would imprison you there?that prision... as you say... has no Americans at it... so it's irrelivant to all those who like to Bash USA/Bash President Bush and so... sadly, it doesn't exsist.

that prision... as you say... has no Americans at it... so it's irrelivant to all those who like to Bash USA/Bash President Bush and so... sadly, it doesn't exsist.

Then answer this - why, if a prison ostensibly "worse" than Guantanamo exists, and if it exists under US control (your sarcastic idea), then why would the US need Guantanamo, when it could send people there to be abused in any way it felt?

Then answer this - why, if a prison ostensibly "worse" than Guantanamo exists, and if it exists under US control (your sarcastic idea), then why would the US need Guantanamo, when it could send people there to be abused in any way it felt?

You assume that the US is out to out-do itself in horribleness to its detainees. Which I guess is how the right-wingers see as the liberal point of view: that the US is a ogre of some sort and is only out to do evil. No wonder righties hate liberals! Their perceptions about us are based totally on horse shit!

Rational people (read educated liberals) see that the US does not care about the standards in which it holds its prisoners. Varying degrees of 'shitty' exist. Thus the problem. Evil seems to be created out of incompetance and ignorance.

Besides if they wanted to punish the prisoners more they could just worsen the current standards at Gitmo and not go through the hassle of sending prisoners here and there.

I suggest they bring in a really horney donkey and let nature take its course. :D

Anyone taken in Afghanistan and held in Gitmo should be sent there.
So should a lot of people captured in the U.S.

Then why would the US run Guantanamo Bay when they could have all those prisoners stay in the nastier prison of their puppet gov?
They actually do. Google "outsourcing torture"

So should a lot of people captured in the U.S.

Not exactly.

Anyone captured in the USA for breaking US laws should be held, and speedily tried, in the USA, with the benefit of their own country's consulates if they are foreigners. Anyone captured in the USA for breaking the laws of a nation that we have an extridition treaty with should be sent there unless they have a ligitimate claim for asylum. Anyone captured in some other country for breaking that country's laws should be held and tried in that country, with the benefit of their own country's consulates if they are foreign to the country they were captured in. Anyone captured in another country for breaking the laws of another nation that they have an extridition treaty with should be sent there unless they have a ligitimate claim for asylum.

It's called the Rule of Law. Dig it?

Then why would the US run Guantanamo Bay when they could have all those prisoners stay in the nastier prison of their puppet gov?
what? you are not aware? where do you get your "news"?

They actually do. Google "outsourcing torture"
here is the link
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22outsourcing+torture%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

you get 4,170 sites.

what? you are not aware? where do you get your "news"?

It's quite obvious from multiple news sources (including non-American ones) that the US is running a camp in Cuba. That this camp is growing. That the camp will be growing in the years to come, and will undergo further construction and improvement. That more inmates come, and more will come over the years.

Why do that, and spend all that money, and waste all those airmiles on terrorists, when you could just dump them into the Afghan prison where no ACLU lawyer would ever meet them - where no FBI agent will ask what's going on.

You would have to be completely stupid to continue with Guantanamo if what you really wanted was to torture people as a matter of policy. You could have gotten everything you wanted and more in the Afghan prison at the hands of Afghans - with none of the bad press and none of the investigation.

So, if you're choosing torture as a matter of official policy from on high, which one do you think is more likely - bumble about in Guantanamo and get caught (not that people haven't been abused as a matter of low level policy), or make a high level policy where you torture the living daylights out of EVERYONE you capture just by sending them to Afghanistan - and you never, ever get caught.

Pol-E-Charki Prison outside of Kabul is run by the Afghans - there are no Americans on the premises.

During the "anarchy" time there was a story or two done on them.

They are indeed shitholes. Thirty to forty guys in a small room with a bucket for a bathroom.

Why don't people protest? Well the groups that are against this stuff usually do but I guess since it has been that way all the time people are fazed by it. Kind of like the jails of Mexico, Central and South America, Arab countries, Turkish......

The problem with the US is that we are supposed to be the "good guys" on such things like that. Our Rule of Law is supposed to be for anybody we have issues. We are not supposed to pick and choose laws.

But I am a Pollyanna about such things. ;)

Pol-E-Charki Prison outside of Kabul is run by the Afghans - there are no Americans on the premises.

According to locals, "That is an Evil place where only Evil survives"

One interpreter (an older guy who actually went through the Russian Military Academy system years ago...) said that he would drown himself or belly out on a land mine before allowing himself to be taken there if that tells you anything.

So, would you rather be in Guantanamo Bay, or would you rather that the Americans sent you home to Afghanistan, where the local government would imprison you there?

What are you trying to tell us? That the American operation in Afghanistan has not been a screaming success? Lets not forget, it was the US who put the current administration in power. So, I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say?

Also, is that the new norm? You want us to compare the USA to third world nations? Seems rather odd if you ask me, I thought you were a big supporter of the US. You never cease to amaze!

As for where people would rather be, I suspect if they are innocent they'd rather be at home with their families. However since Gitmo won't allow due process and fair trials, I guess we shall never know who should and who should not be there.

You need to read further down in the posts, Steph. I'm saying that if we have control over such an evil place, why do we need Guantanamo?

You need to read further down in the posts, Steph. I'm saying that if we have control over such an evil place, why do we need Guantanamo?

That's a very good question now isn't it. I guess because perhaps things are not going as well in Afghanistan as some would like us to think? From what I understand and of course I'm not there, but our troops are (Canadian troops.. we do have the best snipers in the world) and from what I've heard we really only have control over Kabul, that the rest of Afghanistan is in complete chaos, being run by war-lords and drug-lords and an ever increasing return of the Taliban.