NationStates Jolt Archive

So who do you think the world's best workers are? Europeans? Americans? Asians? I'm going to say Americans. Not just because I am one but also because we take fewer days off than Europeans, and tend to be better educated than the workers in third world countries. The Asians give us a run for our money. In fact they may be a little better (I'm not sure how productive their workers are, but they have a good reputation). I'm still voting American.

Well, Asians are certainly the hardest working, but American manufacturing techniques make it so that Americans are far more efficient. And now that I think about it I remember that Americans also work more than most other nations.

And now that I think about it I remember that Americans also work more than most other nations.

And frequently get criticized for it....

So who do you think the world's best workers are?

Ants.

You have a very disturbing definition of 'best'.

What's so disturbing about working hard?

I'm fairly sure that the French are some of the most productive workers, even though there are strict regulations regarding holiday time and working hours.

I'm fairly sure that the French are some of the most productive workers, even though there are strict regulations regarding holiday time and working hours.
How productive can they be considering they work so few hours in comparison to US workers?

mexicans, the ones in america that is.

How productive can they be considering they work so few hours in comparison to US workers?
They get the job done in less time..?

mexicans, the ones in america that is.

Yeah. Everyone knows illegal immigrants work harder than everyone else. And usually for lower pay. It's admirable. I hope one day I am an illegal immigrant.

The definition of best workers is very disturbing. It is not about people but about factors of production. If any country in the world had the same infrastructure that the US has they would be the "best". Individuals in thrid world countries work much harder than any one in developed nations, but because of the extreme lack of technology such labor is inneficient. Labeling the best worker as "american", "asian", "european" may be the most stupid thing I heard in a while. It is impossible to determine who is the best worker due to the difference among labor structure.

The definition of best workers is very disturbing. It is not about people but about factors of production. If any country in the world had the same infrastructure that the US has they would be the "best". Individuals in thrid world countries work much harder than any one in developed nations, but because of the extreme lack of technology such labor is inneficient. Labeling the best worker as "american", "asian", "european" may be the most stupid thing I heard in a while. It is impossible to determine who is the best worker due to the difference among labor structure.

Here's a question, how did that infra-structure get built and why don't other countries have comparible infra-structures?

Here's a question, how did that infra-structure get built and why don't other countries have comparible infra-structures?
us in america like to blame henry ford

Yeah. Everyone knows illegal immigrants work harder than everyone else. And usually for lower pay. It's admirable. I hope one day I am an illegal immigrant.

Strange system isn't it?

If money ("Capital") wants to move overseas, then it is quite simple to invest in overseas shares or place funds in overseas banks. Or to "dabble" in foreign currencies or exchange rates.

If a company wants to "outsource" its operations, and take advantage of lower wages in another part of the world, then that is perfectly legal and quite common. Never mind that it costs domestic jobs.

But if the workers want to move to a higher wage area, then that is "illegal".

Makes you wonder who the system is designed to protect.

us in america like to blame henry ford

You mean he stopped other countries from building similar infra-structure?

Give anyone the best training and the best tools, and you wouldn't be able to say a certain country has better workers than another.

Give anyone the best training and the best tools, and you wouldn't be able to say a certain country has better workers than another.
Europeans have a better educational system and the same technology, yet they take so much time off. It's not all about training and tools. Some of it is work ethic.

You mean he stopped other countries from building similar infra-structure?
... i hate you

i mean he developed the infrastructure in america. i dont reclal him living anywhere else than the us

Europeans have a better educational system and the same technology, yet they take so much time off. It's not all about training and tools. Some of it is work ethic.

In addition to that, why don't other counties copy cat the US or Europe as far as education and Tech developement? Don't they have the same capacity to learn?

... i hate you

i mean he developed the infrastructure in america. i dont reclal him living anywhere else than the us

So why didn't/doesn't/don't other countries develope similar infra-structures if this model is so efficient? ;)

BTW :fluffle: I love you too :D

In addition to that, why don't other counties copy cat the US or Europe as far as education and Tech developement? Don't they have the same capacity to learn?
Their governments may have their hands full keeping the people fed and can't build extensive roads and utilities. The kids may need to help the families earn money and can't be spared to go off to school. Third world countries face serious problems.

I was on a tour of a town in North Korea, being shown the usual visitor sights by my guide, and we visited a workshop that produced furniture for the region.

If your definition of "best" workers is by the work and productivity then these people win hands down. They would arrive at the workshop an hour or 2 early to greet the management and other staff, then would engage in a communal exercise session before singing about how they loved their country and the work they did. They would then work for 4 hours before making their lunch and then go back to work for another 4-6 hours. All the time they would tell me with pride about the work they did and how much they enjoyed it.

My guide told me that none of these workers had ever taken a day of sickness and most voluntarily gave up their self-time (like holiday only spent doing something useful).

Obviously this is setup for westerners to see, but it has attracted a lot of western business in the last couple of years, eager to use a low payed and hard-working force.

Europeans have a better educational system and the same technology, yet they take so much time off. It's not all about training and tools. Some of it is work ethic.
working all the damn time without the ability to take enough time off does not make it automatically better

I'd happily move to the US (my American wife and I live in England) but I really wouldn't like to have my allotment of holiday time halved. I think that you lot get slightly more public holidays but I don't think it's enough to make up the difference.

The question of productivity is an interesting one. I read an article a while ago (no idea where, so feel free to take this with salt according to taste) which quantified the drop-off in productivity past a certain point. You'd expect to see diminishing returns after a while due to fatigue - slower work-rate, increased frequency of errors, etc - but I recall being surprised by how quickly it occurs. Presumably depends on the type of work involved; sweeping floors for 24 hours straight is probably a bit safer than performing brain surgery for the same duration.

I suppose my point is that spending 50% more time at work doesn't equate to actually doing 50% more work. Factor in more mistakes and, depending on the industry, you're not necessarily doing your business any favours.

Frankly I think here in Britain we work far too much, and our quality of life suffers as a result. We should be more relaxed like in Europe.

"Best" worker is rather missleading as it generally measures the workers with the best technology to make their job easier. Is the guy sitting on his ass monitering an automated production line whicle eating donuts a "better" worker than the guy in the third world making the same product by hand?


But if you use the standard measures, productivity is generally defined as GDP per employed person. In that category the top ten (according to OECD data) are:

1. Luxembourg 89,722.30 (2002)
2. United States 74,624.70 (2002) 1792
3. Ireland 74,266.60 (2002)
4. Italy 65,755.30 (2002)
5. Belgium 63,815.00 (2002)
6. Norway 59,443.80 (2002)
7. France 59,438.90 (2002) 1453
8. Denmark 58,027.50 (2002)
9. Austria 57,781.10 (2002)
10. Canada 57,038.60 (2002)
11. Netherlands 55,187.30 (2002)
12. Australia 55,166.70 (2002)

However, if you want to view who actually gets more done, then try dividing throught by the average hours worked per person to get a GDP per hour worked. In that case, Norway kicks ass because the average norweigan works only about 2/3's as many hours as the average american (1337 hours vs 1792). This averages them out to each person contributing about $44.45 to GDP per hour worked as compared to the US's 41.64. France's 1453 working hours also puts them in the same league as the US with 40.90 per hour, as do a number of other European countries.

Of course, countries such as Norway who generate large parts of their GDP off of products that require little labour (in their case, all of the oil flowing in from their platforms) then they wind up with a skewed weighting of their stats.


Who's the best?

Your guess is as good as anyones as you can pick the criteria that suits your desired answer.

If Americans are such good workers why is that the most American manufactures are sending their plants overseas? If Americans are such good workers even if the labor costs are lower in other countries, companies would choose to stay around. I understand that my own statement here have many flaws, but trhoughout all this forum you are examining only one side of the matter, without analyzing others. There is no way to copycat the tech and educational system, and honestly, who would want to copy US's k-12 educational system. The bottom line is that this question is stupid and that there is no way to determine the best worker. There are to many factors that play a major role in determining this and i believe it would be impossible to develop a study to determine the answer to the issue.

I can't believe people are generalising so much. It borders on racism to say one country has better workers than another. There are good/bad/hard/lazy workers in all countries. It's a huge question that has to be broken down. I mean how do you even classify a "good" worker? Does it apply across all industries? How are productivity, efficiency and professionalism measured ? Are working hours a factor? Benefits?

The only way I can see to compare workers from one country against another, would be to take all a bunch of different foreign nationals, then train them in a (metaphorical) vacuum for the same job. Then place them all in the same working environment with a set of pre-defined performance indicators, over a set time. There can be only one variable for it to be a true test.

All workers are roughly equal, it's just some are more CHEAPLY equal than others

I can't believe people are generalising so much. It borders on racism to say one country has better workers than another. There are good/bad/hard/lazy workers in all countries. It's a huge question that has to be broken down. I mean how do you even classify a "good" worker? Does it apply across all industries? How are productivity, efficiency and professionalism measured ? Are working hours a factor? Benefits?

The only way I can see to compare workers from one country against another, would be to take all a bunch of different foreign nationals, then train them in a (metaphorical) vacuum for the same job. Then place them all in the same working environment with a set of pre-defined performance indicators, over a set time. There can be only one variable for it to be a true test.


Thank You very much, finally someone that understands the stupidity of this question!

If Americans are such good workers why is that the most American manufactures are sending their plants overseas? If Americans are such good workers even if the labor costs are lower in other countries, companies would choose to stay around. I understand that my own statement here have many flaws, but trhoughout all this forum you are examining only one side of the matter, without analyzing others. There is no way to copycat the tech and educational system, and honestly, who would want to copy US's k-12 educational system. The bottom line is that this question is stupid and that there is no way to determine the best worker. There are to many factors that play a major role in determining this and i believe it would be impossible to develop a study to determine the answer to the issue.
most stuff made overseas is made cheaper AND better, well that was the report i heard them making fun of on the daily show

eletronics made overseas by cheap labor was made much cheaper and also BETTER than the same product made in america

Europeans have a better educational system and the same technology, yet they take so much time off. It's not all about training and tools. Some of it is work ethic.

I suppose simple laziness would cause your production to slide a tad. Though I don't believe Americans are any less slack than other people.

Europeans have a better educational system and the same technology, yet they take so much time off. It's not all about training and tools. Some of it is work ethic.

Work ethic does not equal giving your life over to your employer.

I think the Europeans have got it right. Educate your populace when they are young, treat them like people when they enter the workforce. As opposed to treating them like interchangable automatons, like the US corporate beast.

As a worker, I am very organized, efficient, and effective. If I can complete my tasks in 30 hours of work a week why should I be expected to sit at my desk for 40? 50? 60??

One cannot equate number of hours worked with work ethic or being "the world's best workers", for that equation lacks humanity.

Give me more days off and I'll be a happier more productive worker.

BTW - For an interesting viewpoint on living wages - and tangentially work ethic - in America, I would recommend reading "Nickel and Dimed: On (not) Getting By In America".

The best worker is one who does the least and gets paid the most. That way he exploits his boss rather than vice-versa.

[QUOTE=

BTW - For an interesting viewpoint on living wages - and tangentially work ethic - in America, I would recommend reading "Nickel and Dimed: On (not) Getting By In America".[/QUOTE]

That is a great book!

I can't believe people are generalising so much. It borders on racism to say one country has better workers than another. There are good/bad/hard/lazy workers in all countries. It's a huge question that has to be broken down. I mean how do you even classify a "good" worker? Does it apply across all industries? How are productivity, efficiency and professionalism measured ? Are working hours a factor? Benefits?

The only way I can see to compare workers from one country against another, would be to take all a bunch of different foreign nationals, then train them in a (metaphorical) vacuum for the same job. Then place them all in the same working environment with a set of pre-defined performance indicators, over a set time. There can be only one variable for it to be a true test.

And even then you would only be finding out who the best workers are for that particular job.

Hmmm... seems we brits work among the hardest in Western Europe with up to 48 hours per week, and we certainly have the least holidays :(

http://www.incomesdata.co.uk/infotime/eutable.pdf

Here are some interesting statistics regarding increase in working hours.

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/41/15/32504422.pdf

Seems you US guys really are working longer hours.

http://www.nu-riskservices.co.uk/news/articles/cms/1089233822626416180839_1.htm

More info detailing a decrease in british working times by an average 7% comared to 20% rises in places like Canada, US and New Zealand

"The average UK employee works for 1,673 hours each year - the equivalent of 32 hours 10 minutes a week - compared to 1,354 in Holland, 1,446 in Germany and 1,453 in France, according to the OECD.

Average hours worked
For Britons in employment, the average number of hours worked per year has dropped steadily from 1,815 in 1979 to 1,708 in 2000 and 1,673 last year, largely due to a growth in part-time jobs. Part-time workers made up 23.3% of the UK labour force in 2003, compared to 16.6% in the EU as a whole and 14.8% in all OECD states.

Annual hours worked in 2003 were well behind the US (1,792), Australia (1,814) and Poland (1,956) and paled in comparison with South Korea, where those in full or part-time work put in 2,390 hours a year on average - almost 46 hours a week. "

Hmm... So far it looks like Europe has the worlds lowest working times by far, with Eastern Europe working harder than Western Europe and Asia the highest: Australia and South Korea both have greater working hours than the US.

Gah! - :eek:

"It added that British workers have less protection against dismissal than
virtually anyone else in the developed world - second only to the US. The OECD called on all members to balance flexibility in employment law with protection for workers."

Note: I know the question was who was the better workers but i thought this was stupid... so the above is who works harder. Clearly some countries work harder on the whole but have less to show for it.... Life's a bitch eh? :p

Granted the complexity of measuring worker productivity makes it difficult to accurately judge which workers are the "best." However, there are cultural clues regarding the concept of work. This does not just apply to work but to many types of endeavors. And contrary to some peopes opinion racism has nothing to do with it.

Example, in American studens of Asian descent consistently out perform students of different descents. Is this attributable to a genetic superiority of Asian students. I don't know but I do know that from a cultural perspective there is a difference. I would argue that cultural attitudes reflect differing ideas of work regardless of technological differences. Reading through the various points to date this becomes very self evident.

Their governments may have their hands full keeping the people fed and can't build extensive roads and utilities. The kids may need to help the families earn money and can't be spared to go off to school. Third world countries face serious problems.

You mean like the Colonies 300 years ago?

If Americans are such good workers why is that the most American manufactures are sending their plants overseas? If Americans are such good workers even if the labor costs are lower in other countries, companies would choose to stay around. I understand that my own statement here have many flaws, but trhoughout all this forum you are examining only one side of the matter, without analyzing others. There is no way to copycat the tech and educational system, and honestly, who would want to copy US's k-12 educational system. The bottom line is that this question is stupid and that there is no way to determine the best worker. There are to many factors that play a major role in determining this and i believe it would be impossible to develop a study to determine the answer to the issue.


Because American's are also among the world's most expensive workers.

By this threads standards I guess slaves would be the world's 'best workers'. We should like give them a national holiday or something but then make them work on it because wouldn't want to screw up the balance or anything. :cool:

By this threads standards I guess slaves would be the world's 'best workers'. We should like give them a national holiday or something but then make them work on it because wouldn't want to screw up the balance or anything. :cool:
Good idea. But we need slaves first. I demand we have anti slave laws abolished. How else would we succeed in our noble strive to give slaves a holiday?

You mean like the Colonies 300 years ago?
Yeah, but without the decent government and favorable trade policies our nation's founders had. You see, in the collonies, and in the early days of the USA we exported more than we imported. You couldn't really grow cotton or tobacco anywhere in Europe. They had little in the way of forests to cut for lumber, etc. Meanwhile we imported nothing except for luxury items. Everything else we needed we produced here at home. Also when the industrial revolution hit we weren't behind the rest of the world in reaping it's benefits. Still, we were a poor nation compared to the European powers until the end of the 19th or beginning of the 20th century.
In many 3rd world nations today the government is corrupt, and much of what the people need must be imported from overseas. They are unlucky.

Good idea. But we need slaves first. I demand we have anti slave laws abolished. How else would we succeed in our noble strive to give slaves a holiday?
Everyone will be forced into slavery for three months out of the year. The rest of the time they can work as they normally would.

Their governments may have their hands full keeping the people fed .... Third world countries face serious problems.

they have Corruption at all levels, all departements...its a juggernaut monster.

3rd World state-Corruption is the Neo-Colonialism.

they have Corruption at all levels, all departements...its a juggernaut monster.

3rd World state-Corruption is the Neo-Colonialism.
Thankfully brave men like the great president of Zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe, are turning this around. Do you realize that he has taken land away from the white imperialist plantation owners who grew tobacco for export and gave it back to his people to grow maize? In fact, the UN provided 6 million people with food aid in Zimbabwe before. They only need aid for 1 million now. Still imperialist puppet news agencies like the BBC slander and lie about President Mugabe. It's no wonder he banned them from his nation. Still they cross the border illegaly to attack his fine government with their lies.

Great president mugabe? Imperialist white farmer? BBC Puppets?

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND !!!

This sounds like Class "A" propoganda.

For a start he runs in a highly illegal and tyrannical fashion, with murders and assination of political opponents numbering thousands, and the total death toll millions.

Now that the white farmers have been pushed out (and given, i think it was: $20 each) the economy is slipping into reccesion at about 25% of the efficency then there was before.

BBC puppets??? If you had any idea what the the British media is like then you would know that the BBC is most often ridiculously unrepresentative or opposed to the goverments views. A puppet? - Far from it.

Imperialist?!? What? - Just remind me, didn't we give up our colonies like 50 years ago? Seriously, if we wanted, and felt it was right to hold onto our colonies (which it is most definately NOT) we would have, its not like guerrilla resistance and civil disobediance always works (remember malyasia?).

(I'll be back tommorow morning with real statistics).

Great president mugabe? Imperialist white farmer? BBC Puppets?

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND !!!

This sounds like class A propoganda.

For a start he runs in a highly illegal and tyrannical fashion, with murders and assination of political opponents numbering thousands, and the total death toll millions.

Now that the white farmers have been pushed out (and given, i think it was: $20 each) the economy is slipping into reccesion at about 25% of the efficency then there was before.

BBC puppets??? If you had any idea what the the British media is like then you would know that the BBC is most often ridiculously unrepresentative or opposed to the goverments views. A puppet? - Far from it.

Imperialist?!? What? - Just remind me, didn't we give up our colonies like 50 years ago? Seriously, if we wanted, and felt it was right to (which it is most definatley NOT) to hold onto our colonies we would have.
Robert Mugabe is a great man. He has liberated his people from the white imperialists who had no right to African land. He has given land that was used to enrich the whites over to the people that they may grow food. You say the economy is in recession. I say the people are eating again. As for the BBC they are not allowed into the country yet they continue to violate that law. They broadcast LIES about the Mugabe regime. So what if he kills a few puppets of the imperialists. He is doing it for the good of the masses.