NationStates Jolt Archive

I'd just like to see atheists give their own explanations for events like stigmata. Don't try to deny them happening please - they have been confirmed to happen to Padre Pio. I'm curious as to you arguments on matters like these. Other miracles too, please.

Confirmed by whom?

Confirmed by whom?I KNEW this was going to happen.

Look it up on the internet. I can't find absolute confirmation… have some books with it in them… but there are those who think there isn't enough proof of the holocaust…

… but there are those who think there isn't enough proof of the holocaust…


...and evolution. :D

*runs*

Padre Pio bore the wounds of Jesus on his hands, feet, and side for 50 years.




Several days before he died in 1968, all evidence of the wounds disappeared.





On October 22, 1918, Padre Pio wrote to his spiritual advisor, Padre Benedetto, describing how he received the stigmata. "On the morning of the 20th of last month, in the choir, after I had celebrated Mass, I yielded to a drowsiness similar to a sweet sleep. All the internal and external senses and even the very faculties of my soul were immersed in indescribable stillness. Absolute silence surrounded and invaded me. I was suddenly filled with great peace and abandonment which effaced everything else and caused a lull in the turmoil. All this happened in a flash.

"While this was taking place, I saw before me a mysterious person similar to the one I had seen on the evening of 5 August. The only difference was that his hands and feet and side were dripping blood. The sight terrified me and what I felt at that moment is indescribable. I thought I should die and really should have died if the Lord had not intervened and strengthened my heart which was about to burst out of my chest.

"The vision disappeared and I became aware that my hands, feet and side were dripping blood. Imagine the agony I experienced and continue to experience almost every day. The heart wound bleeds continually, especially from Thursday evening until Saturday. Dear Father, I am dying of pain because of the wounds and the resulting embarrassment I feel in my soul. I am afraid I shall bleed to death if the Lord does not hear my heartfelt supplication to relieve me of this condition. Will Jesus, who is so good, grant me this grace? Will he at least free me from the embarrassment caused by these outward signs? I will raise my voice and will not stop imploring him until in his mercy he takes away, not the wound or the pain, which is impossible since I wish to be inebriated with pain, but these outward signs which cause me such embarrassment and unbearable humiliation" (Letters 1, No. 511).

I KNEW this was going to happen.

Look it up on the internet. I can't find absolute confirmation… have some books with it in them… but there are those who think there isn't enough proof of the holocaust…
Proof of the Holocaust is well documented by unbiased historians. There is no such proof of stigmata.

Confirmed by Italian doctors including those who were Jewish. By the way I am not Christian, but I do believe strong faith can accomplish anything.

I'd just like to see atheists give their own explanations for events like stigmata.

1. Psychological.
2. Faked.
3. As-yet undiscovered medical condition.

Ta.

Stigmata



On the morning of the 20th September 1918, after having celebrated Holy Mass, the priest Padre Pio retired to the choir stalls for his usual thanksgiving. The place was S. Giovanni Rotondo and the church, Our Lady of Grace.



Outside in the small piazza the morning was similar to most other mornings on the Gargano. The friary, lying at the foot of the mountain, high above the village, seemed isolated and remote, altogether cut off from the world. Peace and quiet hung heavy in the mountain air filling the huge spaces with indescribable serenity and calm.



Chirpings of birds, muted and subdued, coming as if from far off and the monotonous drone of myriad flying insects were sounds to accentuate the silence of the place. They adorned but did not disturb it. Already the clear lines of morning were fading and merging into the heat of midday. High up, a blazing sun seared the massive garganic granite, sending all creatures hurrying to the cool oasis of shuttered rooms.



Only a few old folk long accustomed to this midday furnace moved slowly about, entering the small church to say their devotions, then emerging and making their way across to the ancient yew-tree dominating the middle of the piazza to rest silently in its shadow. A day like other September days with little hint that it could be any different from those which had preceded it or from those which must assuredly follow it.



For the young priest, however, just then kneeling in the chapel of the church, this morning was to be very different, a fateful morning like no other, containing within it a destiny, a summons whose imperious and exalted demands he would attempt to fulfill to the end. Here inside the church the silence was very great. Not a sound penetrated the thick walls from outside as P. Pio, oblivious to everything except the memory of his recent Mass, slowly prostrated in loving adoration before the outspread, bloodied figure on the crucifix.



With that marvelous facility possessed by the mystics by which all external objects are abandoned he withdrew into himself, his spirit yielding to the peacefulness which invaded his whole being, a peacefulness, he later wrote, "similar to a sweet sleep". In this absolute silence he prayed, mind and heart totally wrapped in the burning love which consumed him like some incurable fever. A sweet calm heralding the forthcoming storm.



What happened next can best be told in the simple, unadorned words of P. Pio writing to P. Benedetto little more than a month afterwards: "It all happened in a flash. While all this was taking place, I saw before me a mysterious Person, similar to the one I had seen on August 5th, differing only because His hands, feet and side were dripping blood. The sight of Him frightened me: what I felt at that moment is indescribable. 'I thought I would die, and would have died if the Lord hadn't intervened and strengthened my heart which was about to burst out of my chest. The Person disappeared and I became aware that my hands, feet and side were pierced and were dripping with blood" (Ep., V. 1, no. 5 10, p. 1094). P. Pio had just received the visible stigmata. There was nobody about. Silence settled once more round the brown robed figure now lying huddled on the floor.



A long Calvary had just begun and with it the answer to a prayer: the prayer of his profound desire to identify with Christ crucified not only by participation in the priestly apostolate but in some mysterious way in that supreme immolation of Our Lord on Calvary (cf. Le Stimmate di P. Pio, G. Cruchon, SJ, Colana "Spiritualità", No. 1, p. 102).



He had not desired this physical conformity and when he had recovered somewhat from the immediate experience his embarrassment was extreme: "I am dying of pain because of the wound and because of the resulting embarrassment which I feel deep within my soul. . . Will Jesus who is so good grant me this grace ? Will he at least relieve me of the embarrassment which these outward signs cause me" (Ep., V. 1, p. 1904). Not the wound, not the pain did he wish removed but only the visible signs which at the time he considered to be an indescribable and almost unbearable humiliation.



Later, much later, however, he would come to love and cherish these divine marks of predilection, drawing from them that rich source of superhuman energy which from then on marked his apostolate of love and suffering. With Catherine of Siena he could truly say: "My wounds not only do not afflict my body, but they sustain and fortify it. I feel that what formerly depressed me, now invigorates me." His wounds, hitherto invisible but now manifested exteriorly, mark a definitive stage of his soul's transformation into the object loved, namely, the Lord who suffered and was crucified.



For the next fifty years they would confound impartial science; their continuous and profuse effusion of blood, accompanied often by the sweetest fragrance, came to be regarded as a prolonged miracle, because, as the experts correctly state, blood for its production requires nourishment while this friar's extraordinary frugality was such as hardly to maintain the life of a small child.



The remarkable nature of this miraculous gift becomes more apparent when it is considered how such loss of blood was simply inconsonant with and disproportionate to the stamina and energy with which P. Pio with ever greater activity and zeal conducted his life in all matters relating to the service of God.



Such are the bald facts of P. Pio's stigmata. From his correspondence it is clear that very early in his priestly life there were, at least, indications of what eventually came to pass. Writing to P. Benedetto as early as 1911, only a year after ordination, P. Pio described a phenomenon which he had been experiencing for almost a year: "Then last night something happened which I can neither explain nor understand. In the middle of the palms of my hands a red mark appeared, about the size of a penny, accompanied by acute pain in the middle of the red marks. The pain was more pronounced in the middle of the left hand, so much so that I can still feet it. Also under my feet I can feel some pain" (Ep., V. 1, p. 234).



This is his first mention of the phenomenon to his spiritual father because, as he says, he was overwhelmed with shame. He simply did not want to talk about it, hoping no doubt that it was a passing thing which would soon clear up and then be forgotten.



Four years later, in 1915, his beloved P. Agostino demands certain information in the name of Jesus: When did Jesus first favour him with celestial visions ? Has Jesus made him a gift of his stigmata even though invisible? How often does he feel the crown of thorns and the scourging? P. Agostino asks these questions not out of curiosity but for the glory of God and the salvation of souls (Ep., V. 1, p. 659).



In his reply to this letter P. Pio recognizes the express will of God and willingly answers all three questions. To the first he replies that Jesus began to favour "his poor creature" not very long after his novitiate (Jan. 1903 to Jan. 1904); to the second, whether Jesus made him a gift of the stigmata, the reply is affirmative and we learn that from the start the wounds were visible, especially in one hand, but that P. Pio was so terrified in the face of this phenomenon that he begged the Lord to withdraw them.



From then on they did not appear again until September 1918 although their pain remained and were felt more acutely under certain circumstances and on determined days. The final question he also answers affirmatively. He experiences the pain of the crown of thorns and the scourging. How often he cannot say except that at the time of writing he has been suffering from them almost once a week for some years (cf. Ep., V. 1, p. 669).



The rest is history. News of the event spread like wildfire and by the following year there began that afflux of pilgrims to the tiny friary which has not ceased since. At first in a tiny stream they came, later in the tens of thousands, flocking to glimpse this priest with the wounds of Christ, to assist at his Mass, to kiss those mittened hands and for those who could speak Italian the privilege of confessing to him.



In all this, of course, there were dangers. The danger of a "personality cult"; of the possibility of self-induced wounds produced by a morbid, impressionable, temperament; the danger of fraud and deception, deliberate or otherwise, with the intent of leading a credulous faithful astray; that the stigmata was nothing more than an effect of natural causes rather than a supernatural gift; and finally, there was the dangerous possibility of preternatural and diabolic activity.



In the light of this, and in retrospect, it is understandable why the Church authorities took a course of action that at the time seemed harsh and cruel but which today can be seen, at least in part, as the anvil on which P. Pio's sanctity was hammered out, put to the test and purified to become the luminous and diaphanous veil through which men glimpsed God.



[From: The Spirituality of Padre Pio, Augustine Mc Gregor, O.C.S.O., edited by Fr. Alessio Parente, OFM Cap. (San Giovanni Rotondo: Edizioni "Padre Pio of Pietrelcina" of Our Lady of Grace Monastery, 71013 San Giovanni Rotondo, FG, Italy, 1974). Used with permission of: The National Center for Padre Pio, 2213 Old Route 100, Barto, PA 19504, through which a subscription may be obtained.]

:PS: sorry for the really bad spacing. I copied it from EWTN.

Admittedly this is far too brief, but: ever heard of faith healing? Human belief is a powerful force - but this doesn't vindicate that belief. Psychosomatic injury is a fairly well documented thing.

Also, the possibility of an unusual medical condition cannot be discounted. You may choose to see this as evidence of divine intervention. I choose to see your belief as evidence of an unscientific mind.

http://skepdic.com/stigmata.html

Stigmata is real. It's a movie. A boring one at that.

They are confirmed by those who want to believe in what they see and not by those who are actually emotionally and intellectually neutral in the process.

Also, just because science can not currently explain certain irregularities, it does not mean that people should immediately jump to the conclusion that it was caused by supernatural means. Witchburnings and other human sacrifice rituals are made in such ways.

As for stigmata, it is not inconceivable that an object placed beneath the skin could be healed over and then have pressure applied to it in order to cause the bleeding necessary to cause the uncivilized to believe without question or rationale. If David Blaine can appear to rip his own heart out on live television, then there is nothing spectacular about stigmata except by those who want to believe without question.

http://www.csicop.org/si/2004-03/i-files.html

The thing is, I do believe stigmata can happen. Mainly have forged it, but there is a simple test, in the Bible it says nails went through his hands. But it is now thought that the hands themselves would not have been able to hold the weight of the body therefore, it wasnt the hands but the wrists. The film stigmata first brought this idea to me. The film is based on the true idea of stigmata, notice how by the end, miss page had none of the wounds on her.
This film also included the gospel according to st. Thomas, which is the true words of Jesus. Although the Catholics call it heresay. But think of the vatican like a government, it tells the people what the vatican wants them to hear. My firm belief, this is.

The film is based on the true idea of stigmata, notice how by the end, miss page had none of the wounds on her.
This film also included the gospel according to st. Thomas, which is the true words of Jesus.


I hope, for your sake, you never go see the movie Independence Day. I shudder to think of what you might believe upon the end of that movie.

I say stigmata are forged. These people make these wounds themselves and believe that they are caused by a supernatural force, preferably their god. There are people out there that will tell lies all the time and will believe those lies. I even suspect someone i know of being one of those people (I say suspect, as he not only has to be telling a lot of lies and false stories all the time, but he also has to believe in them).

How do you explain the fact that God doesn't exist? And don't just deny it. I want you to provide a real, logical explanation to account for the well-documented fact that God doesn't exist.

The film is based on the true idea of stigmata, notice how by the end, miss page had none of the wounds on her.
This film also included the gospel according to st. Thomas, which is the true words of Jesus. Although the Catholics call it heresay. But think of the vatican like a government, it tells the people what the vatican wants them to hear. My firm belief, this is.
Hmmm no. I didn't notice. I fell asleep halfway through.

I'd just like to see atheists give their own explanations for events like stigmata. Don't try to deny them happening please - they have been confirmed to happen to Padre Pio. I'm curious as to you arguments on matters like these. Other miracles too, please.

Actually, I'd quite like to see theists explain stigmata. Wouldn't such an obvious manifestation of the existance of God violate the sanctity of us freely choosing to take the truth of His existance on faith?

Sounds like quite a profitable trick: fake some stigmata, get a bit of publicity going and wait for the masses to come and worship you. Personally, I think I'd go for something a little less painful - grilled cheese, maybe.

I recall reading an article ages ago about a magician who went around performing 'miracles'. He quickly mastered the art of the crying statue: all you need is some stone of a certain porosity, a flask of blood (or milk, maybe tequila if you're feeling a bit saucy) and a little ingenuity in your carving.

So, all these strange and wonderful things...we can agree on this much: either they're miracles, or they're someone pissing about. You ask me to demonstrate that they're fake; I say bollocks to that, I'm taking the default view of plain old human greed and gullibility until you can find some evidence to the contrary.

What's your view on crop circles?

The strange thing I find about Stigmata is that even if it is true (which I am unsure of) there is now Biblical reason why it would happen. There are no biblical examples of it, so it seems to me that it makes no sense. Thats not discounting the fact that its true, its just if it is, I think we should do some more theological investigation as to why God would want it to happen?

Personally, I do not think that events like Stigmata are caused by anything "spiritaul" in the sense that some superior being is allowing it to happen to make whatever point it is they want to make.

I would imagine that many of these physical (as in on the body) events are either faked or the person psychologically is making it happen. Sometimes, there is no explaination for these events. Does it mean that it is divine? No, it just means that we don't know why it happens. hundreds (and even thousands) of years ago, people could not understand why the sun rose and set and it took even longer to find out what the sun actually was. People just could not understand why it was the way it was, so they invented a reason for it. The sun must be a chariot that the gods (or god) ride across the sky! Why not? It made sense for what they understood at the time and it satisfied their curiosity. Does that mean that since it "makes sense" then it is the truth? Of course not. We know that the Sun is today and the idea of some superior being driving a chariot across the sky is a thing of fairy tales.

These events (stigmatas) are much the same way. They happen. Much of what is not faked and cannot be explained has an explanation, but we may lack the knowledge to fully explain it. That does not mean that "God" caused it to happen. It just means that we do not know how to explain it yet.

How do you explain the fact that God doesn't exist? And don't just deny it. I want you to provide a real, logical explanation to account for the well-documented fact that God doesn't exist.

OK. I will proove that god doesn't exist if you can proove to me that there is no invisible pink unicorn standing next to me right now.

Stigmata are all obviously fake.

Crucifictions were carried out usually by binding the victims to a cross, sometimes upside down.
When nails were used they were driven through the wrists not the palms of the hand, body weight would have torn the nails from the hands.

I have seen many pictures and news reports of stigmata and have yet to see any showing wounds to the wrists.

Stigmata is just another clever tool to make suseptable people believe in some sort of religion, much as mediums use trickery and body language to make people believe they can speak to long dead aunty Mary or uncle George.

Admittedly this is far too brief, but: ever heard of faith healing? Human belief is a powerful force - but this doesn't vindicate that belief. Psychosomatic injury is a fairly well documented thing.

Also, the possibility of an unusual medical condition cannot be discounted. You may choose to see this as evidence of divine intervention. I choose to see your belief as evidence of an unscientific mind.


Yes! Exactly... another person with a mind that ponders. The human mind is a powerful force.

1. Psychological.
2. Faked.
3. As-yet undiscovered medical condition.

Ta.


Perfect.

Sure stigmata exist! A stigma is the usually apical part of the pistil of a flower which receives the pollen grains and on which they germinate. And has anyone ever heard of typhoid fever? Petechiae appear on the skin, which are also called stigmata.

OK. I will proove that god doesn't exist if you can proove to me that there is no invisible pink unicorn standing next to me right now.
I don't need you to prove the inexistence of God. God's lack of existence is a repeatable, well-documented, scientific discovery. Since religion obviously knows all of the answers, the original poster should have no difficulty whatsoever explaining how religion accounts for this.

Stigmata could be completely psychosomatic, kind of like anxiety attacks sometimes are....

Something in the person's mind has such an effect on him/her that it physically manifests itself.

This film also included the gospel according to st. Thomas, which is the true words of Jesus.

Really? I thought it was the true words of St, Thomas :p

Although the Catholics call it heresay.


Do you mean here say (as in rumours) or heresy?

Religious nuts self-harming themselves? Who cares? No god either way.

I don't need you to prove the inexistence of God. God's lack of existence is a repeatable, well-documented, scientific discovery. Since religion obviously knows all of the answers, the original poster should have no difficulty whatsoever explaining how religion accounts for this.

I think that's the point I was trying to make ;) They should have as much luck prooving the existance of god as I have of prooving the existance of my invisible pink unicorn. I think I also misunderstood what you were asking... obviously we are on the same track here.

I think that's the point I was trying to make ;) They should have as much luck prooving the existance of god as I have of prooving the existance of my invisible pink unicorn. I think I also misunderstood what you were asking... obviously we are on the same track here.
The point is that I'm asking him to explain something in my belief system using his own without permitting him to deny anything from my belief system.

Stigmata could be completely psychosomatic, kind of like anxiety attacks sometimes are....

Something in the person's mind has such an effect on him/her that it physically manifests itself.


This is true in every respect. Aborigine culture has take this to such extremes that if an Aborigine beleives he's going to die, he just will. Even if he continues to eat healthily, exercises, drinks etc. It's just he knows he's going to die, and just will.

It's entirely psychological, entirely unexplainable and entirely unrelate to Christianity except for the involvement of BELIEF. Belief is a powerful and dangerous force, and personally I think that most religions are a bad influence on it.

Personally i believe that stigmata is proof of how the mind can really affect the body as stimatists are people who deeply beleive in christ. I do think its fascinating but I do maintain my belief that it is psychosomatic and is associated with delusional behaviour.

I'd just like to see atheists give their own explanations for events like stigmata. Don't try to deny them happening please - they have been confirmed to happen to Padre Pio. I'm curious as to you arguments on matters like these. Other miracles too, please.
for oen thing, stigmata usually happens in the palms, and in tests done with bodies, the palms counld not support the weight of a body, the romans must have put the nails through the wrists.

this alone lends credibility to the theory that it's simply a manifestation of religious fervour. mind over body. they want the markings so bad that they show up. in the wrong places indicently... the same places where the nails appear on your average crucifix.

I'd just like to see atheists give their own explanations for events like stigmata. Don't try to deny them happening please - they have been confirmed to happen to Padre Pio. I'm curious as to you arguments on matters like these. Other miracles too, please.

I don't know about this whole cruxificition thing, but the wrist vs palms seems legitimate.

Anyway, theres a term for stuff like this. Called the Placebo effect.

Sounds to me like an obsession with mysterious bleeding holes.

Well, it's either God putting mysterious bleeding holes in random people, or there are hoaxes, lying, self-inflicted wounds and/or psychosomatism at work.

Frankly, I have no idea why God would put random holes in people. If I were an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being I would find more constructive uses of my power.

Do you mean here say (as in rumours) or heresy?
I think that you meant to say "hearsay"...

Sounds to me like an obsession with mysterious bleeding holes.
Or, rather, hypodermal haemorrhaging. (and yes, I mean "hypodermal", not "hypodermic")

http://skepdic.com/stigmata.html
Serious ignorance!
Firstly - the first known case of Stigmata was the Apostle Paul, it didn't turn up centuries later, as claimed by the site.
Seondly - Hume's argument against miracles is illogical; it is dependent on a pre-existing refusal to accept miracles to work. It's notable that he dismisses as a lie a case of a Roman Emperor healing a psychosomatic injury - something that is now scientifically accepted.

Serious ignorance!
Firstly - the first known case of Stigmata was the Apostle Paul, it didn't turn up centuries later, as claimed by the site.
Seondly - Hume's argument against miracles is illogical; it is dependent on a pre-existing refusal to accept miracles to work. It's notable that he dismisses as a lie a case of a Roman Emperor healing a psychosomatic injury - something that is now scientifically accepted.
where's the documentation of the stigmata on paul?

This is true in every respect. Aborigine culture has take this to such extremes that if an Aborigine beleives he's going to die, he just will. Even if he continues to eat healthily, exercises, drinks etc. It's just he knows he's going to die, and just will.
Err - no. A cursed Aborigine will simply get the curse removed. Also, do not under estimate the wide selection of interesting herbs and other natural toxins available in the Australian bush.

It's entirely psychological, entirely unexplainable and entirely unrelate to Christianity except for the involvement of BELIEF. Belief is a powerful and dangerous force, and personally I think that most religions are a bad influence on it.
Of course religion is a bad influence. This is why believers live an average of 2 to 4 years longer than atheists.
To be fair to athiests, you smell a lot better than smokers; but that's the only real difference I've noticed between a dedicated atheist and a serious smoker. You use very similar arguments to defend something which it is clear is going to kill you.

if i'm not mistaken the discovery channel had a speaicel on "mircales" and stigmata is some disoder or viruse that makes the skin bleed. but i'm to lazy to look for any facts but yea that my explaination. If u want to talk about some stuff that people can't explain talk about the whitch craft done in the island of cuba, purto rico, and jamaca to name a few.

Of course religion is a bad influence. This is why believers live an average of 2 to 4 years longer than atheists.
To be fair to athiests, you smell a lot better than smokers; but that's the only real difference I've noticed between a dedicated atheist and a serious smoker. You use very similar arguments to defend something which it is clear is going to kill you.
proof?

and the living longer thing...

http://skepdic.com/refuge/bunk9.html#stigmata

The International Journal of Psychiatry in Medicine published the work of Dr. Harold G. Koenig of Duke University Medical Center in Durham, N.C. Koenig based his conclusions on a randomly selected survey of more than 2,000 people ages 65 and older in a primarily Protestant area of North Carolina. Even though Koenig himself notes that those who watched religious television or listened to religious radio actually had higher blood pressure than those who did not, it apparently did not occur to him or the editors of the Journal, or the writers at MSNBC, that being healthy might be the important factor here, not going to church. Those who are over 65 and go to church are much more likely to be in better health than those who are over 65 and get their religion from the television or the radio.

note the bolded phrase.

where's the documentation of the stigmata on paul?
Galatians 6:17

To answer the obvious reply: no, this hasn't been independently verified, but as the site insists that all of these cases are faked, it should be included as the first fake, yes? Also, the site claims that all of the individuals with stigmata were RC (presumably to play on rivalry between denominations), whil all Christians must accept Paul as Apostle and valid authority on the faith.

galations 6:17

from now on, let no one make trouble for me; for i carry the marks of jesus branded on my body.

this is what you're referring to?

it doesn't necessarily refer to stigmata... hell, i think that's the last thing i'd think of when reading that.

if the orignial greek translation strictly says anything about holes through his wrists and feet, that's one thing. as far as i know, he got branded with a fish symbol.

and at any rate, one line is hardly documentation.

Err - no. A cursed Aborigine will simply get the curse removed. Also, do not under estimate the wide selection of interesting herbs and other natural toxins available in the Australian bush.
Only if the curse doesn't kill him or her first. Though poisoning could be an exlpanation, but the timing would have to be pretty damn good for what actually happens.

Of course religion is a bad influence. This is why believers live an average of 2 to 4 years longer than atheists.
This is admitting that the psyche has physiological effects. And I do not believe that faith is linked to longevity at all. If you can prove this from an unbiased an reliable source, I may believe it. Won't change my agnosticism, but it'd be quite an interesting fact to look in to.

To be fair to athiests, you smell a lot better than smokers; but that's the only real difference I've noticed between a dedicated atheist and a serious smoker. You use very similar arguments to defend something which it is clear is going to kill you.
...Are you suggesting that atheism is lethal? To be fair, life is lethal. Being born is clearly going to kill you as well. Religionism is just about as lethal as atheism.

if i'm not mistaken the discovery channel had a speaicel on "mircales" and stigmata is some disoder or viruse that makes the skin bleed.
There are plenty of pathogens that cause haemorrhaging. Haemorrhagic fevers are the most interesting, in my opinion, which certainly cause petechiae to appear from weakened blood vessels and the thinning of the blood, as well as the killing of thrombocytes (platelets). But there are certainly not the only one. Menoccocal meningitis is the second one that comes to mind, but I know for a fact there's more.