NationStates Jolt Archive

while i usually try to steer clear of most of these religious debates (largely because im either a true agnostic or i just don't care enough about religion to even talk about it, take your pick) an idea hit me recently.

why is it that christians consistantly try and convert athiests, and tell them they are wrong but don't tell people of other religions they are wrong? seems to me their attitude is "if you believe in nothing you are a sinner but if you believe in something else that's ok, or we'll turn a blind eye to it." after all, it does say in the bible that he who believes in god goes to heaven or something like that. and you can't worship false idols (assumedly other gods - like the gods of Hinduism etc?); so why is there such beef between christians and athiests - and not christians and everybody else?
just thought it was odd is all.

If some bible-thumping zealot comes banging at your door NEVER tell them you're an atheist. You'll never get rid of them. If you tell them you're jewish or buddhist they go away. Oh, and don't you just love when you tell them you're an atheist and they say "aren't you afraid you'll go to hell?" Er? :headbang:

Oh, and don't you just love when you tell them you're an atheist and they say "aren't you afraid you'll go to hell?" Er? :headbang:
You get odd looks if you actually :headbang:

why is it that christians consistantly try and convert athiests, and tell them they are wrong but don't tell people of other religions they are wrong?

They do. Repeatedly. Read the comments against Jews and Muslems in some of the posts here. On a larger scale: think of the crusades. Or more recent: Christians fighting other flavours of Christians in Ireland.

But in daily life it is simply so that atheists and Christians are the vocal majorities in most western countries.

They (mostly) don't particularly mind Muslims/Jews, since they all serve the same master and the only real bone of contention is Christ's status. Whereas atheists don't serve any God. I cringe at the awful arguments my brothers and sisters use against atheists though… religious arguments to a non-religious person… might work for an apostate but not an atheist!

I'm not atheist and rare is the day that goes by that I'm not told I'm a Satanist and I'm going to Hell. Unless of course I become Christian. Isn't Satanism another form of Christianity, just opposite ends of a coin? They do go after anyone who isn't like them (the converting types) I wish we had more missionaries though, I love making them question their own faith without them realizing I'm doing it, it makes me a happy camper. If you want to pray to god, fine, don't try to force me to do so too. Blah!

Jehovah Witnesses have a comeback for almost anything you throw their way. They study a book that gives them reply's/questions, looks like a telemarketers guide.

I'm not atheist and rare is the day that goes by that I'm not told I'm a Satanist and I'm going to Hell. Unless of course I become Christian. Isn't Satanism another form of Christianity, just opposite ends of a coin? They do go after anyone who isn't like them (the converting types) I wish we had more missionaries though, I love making them question their own faith without them realizing I'm doing it, it makes me a happy camper. If you want to pray to god, fine, don't try to force me to do so too. Blah! God, no. Atheists are simply misguided (there, I'm being charitable!), and without an overarching system of morality and purpose. Those were dark days… anyway, atheists are not Satanists. Satanists are fools who are throwing their souls away to a traitorous dæmon, hating all that is good, lustful, bloodthirsty, and practicing human sacrifice. I can't think why anyone would want to worship the Dragon (the Devil takes the form of a dragon) in their right mind.

Jehovah Witnesses have a comeback for almost anything you throw their way. They study a book that gives them reply's/questions, looks like a telemarketers guide. Where can I get one of those? I'm a fanatical demi-renegade Catholic!

From your local Kingdom Hall I guess

Jehovah Witnesses have a comeback for almost anything you throw their way. They study a book that gives them reply's/questions, looks like a telemarketers guide.

I find that not saying anything, and just slamming the door in their faces works quite well.

My old housekeeper, though, was a Jehovah Witness (or at least a similar denomination). She delighted in giving me books on how god says I should run my life (I loved the one about the internet, had a chapter about cybersex that was incredibly amusing). It seemed that the more I tried to convince her that her faith was not mine, the more books I had to dump in the attic.

Yeesh.

Atheists are [...] without an overarching system of morality and purpose.The only good way to be!

Atheists are simply misguided (there, I'm being charitable!), and without an overarching system of morality and purpose.
If that is your version of charitable, then I'm staying away from YOUR religion!

And as an atheist, I can safely say that I am guided by the same overarching system of morality that guides you and most belief systems: The Rule of Reciprocity (Golden Rule). The difference is that I don't believe it was handed down to mankind by a supernatural being for any supernatural purpose.

If that is your version of charitable, then I'm staying away from YOUR religion!

And as an atheist, I can safely say that I am guided by the same overarching system of morality that guides you and most belief systems: The Rule of Reciprocity (Golden Rule). The difference is that I don't believe it was handed down to mankind by a supernatural being for any supernatural purpose. Well, don't you believe that Christians are misguided? It's not an insult. A lot of Christians are misguided.

Okay, you have a moral system. My apologies. Next question: do you believe in a purpose?

By the way: I was not saying that atheists are immoral. I was just saying (perhaps wrongly) that they don't have a defined system of moral and ethical code.

We've done the whole "atheists do [not] have absolute moral codes/absolute purpose in life" thing several times before. Search the forum history. There is nothing stopping an atheist, agnostic or anyone having absolute moral codes or all-embracing purpose in life.

For me, even the golden rule is not overarching, it does not dominate all other aspects of my morality. I can think of several instances where the golden rule would not work for me.

For me, even the golden rule is not overarching, it does not dominate all other aspects of my morality. I can think of several instances where the golden rule would not work for me.
Such as...?

We've done the whole "atheists do [not] have absolute moral codes/absolute purpose in life" thing several times before. Search the forum history. There is nothing stopping an atheist, agnostic or anyone having absolute moral codes or all-embracing purpose in life.

For me, even the golden rule is not overarching, it does not dominate all other aspects of my morality. I can think of several instances where the golden rule would not work for me. Alright! I'm sorry! It was an ill-thought out comment, and my false assumption of your beliefs has tarnished my reputation. My most sincere apologies. Can we leave this alone now? I get the point.

My actual point was: Atheists are not Satanists, nor do they have anything to do with Satanism.

Okay, you have a moral system. My apologies. Next question: do you believe in a purpose?
Yes. To make the most of my short time here.

My actual point was: Atheists are not Satanists, nor do they have anything to do with Satanism.
Thank you!

Now watch some Satanist claim he's an atheist... doh.

Such as...?In many/most social situations, where I would want others to shut up/leave/say something insulting to me.

Yes. To make the most of my short time here. Fair enough. That used to by my purpose. Have you ever thought of trying to increase the short length of time?

Fair enough. That used to by my purpose. Have you ever thought of trying to increase the short length of time?
Increasing that length of time used to be MY purpose. Now I believe otherwise. Trust me, mate, it's no use trying this one on me. ;)

Increasing that length of time used to be MY purpose. Now I believe otherwise. Trust me, mate, it's no use trying this one on me. ;) What? I was implying that you could use rejuvenating drugs, or ice freezing, or build a different body… nothing to do with religion!

While not a Christian, and to many of them worse then an atheist as a Pagan, I tend not to have problems with them. I believe that good people, reguardless of religion, tend to know when they're speaking to another good person. If you are kind and compassionate they tend to give a lively conversation and then go on thier way, but if you are openly hostile they will only try harder to "save" you. I've learned if you live your life by a code of ethics and believe a little kindness can go along way you will find you'll have far less trouble with anyone be they Christian or otherwise.

I'm not exactly sure why so many people on this forum show a marked dislike of any organized faith, particularly Christianity.

Of my experiences with atheists, my own faith [myself being a Catholic] was constantly teased, riduculed, and put down. My friends came from many different religious denominations, but the common link between them was a leeryness of Catholicism. But what I'd like to say is this; those that believed in Christianity did not seek to goad or actively convert the others to their faith. We were instead 'told' that we should abandon our ways of belief and follow some way of life that just didn't feel right.

It isn't really fair to group all members of a faith as a solid block with a completely uniform set of beliefs. Any person will have their own slightly different beliefs, possibly somewhat contrary to the faith they belong to, but that is simply how people are. They are perfectly free to believe what they want. Please don't bash us, and that should include how professed atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Bahai'i, Shintoists, Buddhists, Taoists, Lamaiists, Nature worshippers, and Christians treat each other.

In a Comparative Religions class I took, my very devout Catholic teacher thoroughly went through every major Religion, including Agnosticism and Atheicism, objectively, but spent compartively little time on Christianity, which was left until the very end. It was an excellent class, so why can't people be more objective?

And, when you start referring to articles to support your views on issues such as evolution against creationism, please don't use things such as National Geographic or websites. Use Real Journals or books, preferrably something you've read. In university, it's not recommended to use either National Geographic (a hopelessly biased and Americanized version of events) or websites (unless they are created by a reputable source, such as universities... avoid anything with a glaring bias!).

Get informed, and objectively read up on both sides. Those who do not agree with Evolution should read up on it, such as Darwin's On the Origin of Species (but again, don't refer to that issue of National Geographic that seems so prevalent here in the forums) and for those who do not agree with any form of Creationism, regardless of which Faith you're commenting on, please be objective and read up on the subject.

I'm making my way through a French New Testament, and will try to take Evolution classes next year in university, and yes, will read the Origin of Species. A well informed person with a good background in any subject makes the most convincing argument.

What? I was implying that you could use rejuvenating drugs, or ice freezing, or build a different body… nothing to do with religion!
Oh all right, if that's what you meant, apologies.

And of course... who doesn't want to live longer and healthier? (And I'd like Gabrielle Reese's body, thank you.)

Oh all right, if that's what you meant, apologies.

And of course... who doesn't want to live longer and healthier? (And I'd like Gabrielle Reese's body, thank you.)I'd like to be taller. What did you think I meant? Eternal life under God? Because that takes place… after you're dead…

Jehovah Witnesses have a comeback for almost anything you throw their way. They study a book that gives them reply's/questions, looks like a telemarketers guide.

Last edited by Naturality : Today at 5:01 AM. Reason: damn typos


Damn Typos? How about:
apostrophes should be used for possessives - shoulda used instead: telemarketer's guide, NOT for plural - shoulda used instead: replies/questions.

sarcastic, unneeded pun: reply's questions? what question would a reply ask?
(I know what you meant by "reply's/questions" (replies/questions) :gundge: )

relevant book plug: "Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation", by Lynne Truss.

FYI: title = punch line to the panda joke

Rant over - sorry for taking up the space.

I'm not an atheist; however, I am an asatanist. :p

Damn Typos? How about:
apostrophes should be used for possessives - shoulda used instead: telemarketer's guide, NOT for plural - shoulda used instead: replies/questions.

sarcastic, unneeded pun: reply's questions? what question would a reply ask?

relevant book plug: "Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation", by Lynne Truss.

FYI: title = punch line to the panda joke

Rant over - sorry for taking up the space.


the reply/question meant there are listed replies and questions to comeback what they are told by the person they are speaking to.

All religion is, is a political platform with a posthumous reward system. Good and evil are merely politics as written by the victors of wars and those looking to sacrifice individuality to promote "patriotism".

Methinks my post was mistaken as saying that atheism is satanism. I was merely saying, atheists aren't the only one on the "hit list"

Overdose of any religion will eat your brains. But if you want to believe, fluffles for you! :fluffle: :fluffle:

while i usually try to steer clear of most of these religious debates (largely because im either a true agnostic or i just don't care enough about religion to even talk about it, take your pick) an idea hit me recently.

why is it that christians consistantly try and convert athiests, and tell them they are wrong but don't tell people of other religions they are wrong? seems to me their attitude is "if you believe in nothing you are a sinner but if you believe in something else that's ok, or we'll turn a blind eye to it." after all, it does say in the bible that he who believes in god goes to heaven or something like that. and you can't worship false idols (assumedly other gods - like the gods of Hinduism etc?); so why is there such beef between christians and athiests - and not christians and everybody else?
just thought it was odd is all.


Eh, in my opnion, Atheists have a good deal going. They're not as harassed by Christians as it seems like on this forum... just like Christians arn't as harassed by Atheists.
However, the ones who really got it bad are the Pagan/Wiccan/Polytheist people (Proud polytheist myself).
Most Christians, Jews, and Muslims I've met are at least tolerant of atheists, and most of the time accecpting. But when they talk to someone who's a Pagan/Wiccan/Polytheist, they seem to go out of their way to convert them, tell them the person is wrong, and just plain harass them about as bad as the polarized people on this forum do.
The good part about it is, most Pagan/Wiccan/Polytheist belivers either don;t care, don't bring it up or let it be known, or can just let it "roll off" them.
A bit of a personal example. My family, one side Anglican, one is Catholic, other the past year has been oddly questioning me about my beliefs (Probably because I don't see them much and they always wanna know if I'm conformed, or have been to mass, and stuff like that). Now, normally, I don't care when people do this, if I don't feel like answering, I just say my beliefs are my own, and they leave me alone... at least atheists do.
The reaction I get from my family, and indeed most Christians I have talked to in person, is that they want to know more. They probe all they can to know what I believe (no doubt to try and use it to convert me.. I've seen it happen many a time on my brother, girlfreind, and close freinds).
And then of course there's the prevaliant line "Are you Atheist? Because that's ok you know.", or the variation "Are you Atheist? Because your Grandfather was you know." from one grandmother.
Unfortunatly, they don't stop pestering me until they know, and then come the attempted conversions, harassing my faith, and other stuff that I take as an insult.
In the end, I find that as a polytheist, I spend more time dealing with Christians pushing their beliefs on me then any of my Atheist freinds... including a few who are ALOT more anti-Christian then I could ever be, and go looking for those fights.

Of course.. not all people of any group are like the rest of the group, or stereotype, or whatever. This is a broad rant.

Jehovah Witnesses have a comeback for almost anything you throw their way. They study a book that gives them reply's/questions, looks like a telemarketers guide.
I have a copy of the satanic bible which I try to hand them. So far none have accepted it.

Methinks my post was mistaken as saying that atheism is satanism. I was merely saying, atheists aren't the only one on the "hit list"
Recentyl at the Elks, a couple of my friends and me were discussing whether or not we go to church. I mentioned I don't because I'm an atheist. By friend Billy asked me if that meant I worship the devil. It's weird to have to explain what an atheist is. I thought it was pretty much common knowledge.

However, the ones who really got it bad are the Pagan/Wiccan/Polytheist people (Proud polytheist myself).
Most Christians, Jews, and Muslims I've met are at least tolerant of atheists, and most of the time accecpting. But when they talk to someone who's a Pagan/Wiccan/Polytheist, they seem to go out of their way to convert them, tell them the person is wrong, and just plain harass them about as bad as the polarized people on this forum do.
The good part about it is, most Pagan/Wiccan/Polytheist belivers either don;t care, don't bring it up or let it be known, or can just let it "roll off" them.


Proud Pagan, myself, and I know exactly what you mean. My parents are Christian, and for many years I was brought up as a Christian also, until a couple of years back, when I changed my faith. The thing is, Judaism, Christianity and the rest are all taught in schools, so the children understand the different religions, and most are tolerant of them. the Pagan/Wiccan/Polytheistic/Satanistic religions are not. People have a fear of the unknown, and as these religions are not taught in schools, they twist the ideas behind the religion. For an example - as a pagan, I cast spells, but if I say this to anone not a pagan, they instantly shrink back, scared I might turn them into a frog or something....I once heard an excellent description of what a spell is - "A prayer with attitude." I'm so used to the reaction I get now, I just don't bother bringing it up, unless someone asks me directly what I belive in. Even then, if someone (especially one of the children, I'm a trainee teacher) asks me 'do you believe in god', I answer - I believe in a god. Because I do. I believe that all Gods are one God, and all Goddesses one Goddess. I once tried to tell my parents, so I dropped the subject into the conversation one night, when we were discussing something, and I just mentioned that one of my 'friends' was a pagan. They instantly bristled, and however much I tried to explain to them that is was not about devil worship, pagans don't belive in the devil (most of us don't, anyway) etc...it was like baning my head against a brick wall. :headbang: I just left it, and to this day I still haven't told them. I don't think I ever will.

I revere the old gods too, and I find all kinds of confusion and misrepresentation of my belief system. Several people said that it was "devil worship"! My girlfriend's estranged husband told her "I hear that you're dating a devil worshipper"! He asked me "Do you believe in God?" I gave him my stock answer: "Which one?" He started trying to "drive" or "bind" or "Satan" that was supposedly in me! Well, if Satan was, then he's still here, 'cause he didn't leave! :rolleyes: I think atheists are big target because they are seen as more available, and pagans like me, because we are seen as worshipping devils. It's simple: the Christians believe that the old gods are, in fact, demons. To them, we are worshipping devils or demons! IMO, however, the old gods are still true and real, no matter how much the Christians seek to demonize them! They were relabelled demons by the Church (e.g. Pan with his horns and cloven hooves), but they are actually aspects of the One God. I like that last bit about all Gods being One God. They are. And all Goddesses are One God (or Goddess)- it's all One Supreme Being, who takes many forms, masculine AND feminine. But I don't expect literal-minded Christians to understand the concept of symbolic deities. To them, everything must be literal! :rolleyes:

I think atheists 'freak out' christians - by being 'godless'.

They can UNDERSTAND that somebody could follow a different god - although, of course, that other god would be a heretical icon, and you'd obviously go to hell for your false worship..

But, the atheist... athesists seem to manage to get by without ANY need for a god... and a lot of christians seem to find that challenging, and somehow offensive... like my atheism is some kind of direct insult to their faith.

I think atheists 'freak out' christians - by being 'godless'.

They can UNDERSTAND that somebody could follow a different god - although, of course, that other god would be a heretical icon, and you'd obviously go to hell for your false worship..

But, the atheist... athesists seem to manage to get by without ANY need for a god... and a lot of christians seem to find that challenging, and somehow offensive... like my atheism is some kind of direct insult to their faith.
Yeah get a lot of that “how can your life have meaning” sort of thing … like most religious people “live” to do only what their god tells them BAH yeah right.

They live “for” the same things we all do … happiness.
(sure this is not sounding right but yeah)


Like gravy baby said I think we (me being agnostic to soft atheist (not sure yet)) freak them out.

But, the atheist... athesists seem to manage to get by without ANY need for a god... and a lot of christians seem to find that challenging, and somehow offensive... like my atheism is some kind of direct insult to their faith.


That's pretty much it. The other religions still accept the idea that there is something there, that we are not all alone, where as atheists just say "bullshit. We are alone, you are WRONG, and your need for a father figure to constantly watch over you is pathetic and sickens me to my core, you sniviling weak-willed SHEEP! Bah, SHEEP, BAH!!!!!".

Well, perhaps we don't say it quite as extremely as that, but it's essentially the atheist message. And it scares the crap out of people. Also, you've got the fundamental problem of Atheists looking for proof that, by the very nature of faith, cannot exist. The other religions are at least playing the same game as the Christians; you can't prove us wrong, we can't prove you wrong. The Atheists say "We don't need to prove you wrong, because that's not HOW PROOF WORKS. You prove something RIGHT, not WRONG.". Which changes the rules completely, and religion can't play along.

I've had a similar debate to this on another forum recently, you might want to take a look:

http://thegreatcritic.proboards24.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=miscell&num=1086379542&start=45

That's pretty much it. The other religions still accept the idea that there is something there, that we are not all alone, where as atheists just say "bullshit. We are alone, you are WRONG, and your need for a father figure to constantly watch over you is pathetic and sickens me to my core, you sniviling weak-willed SHEEP! Bah, SHEEP, BAH!!!!!".

Well, perhaps we don't say it quite as extremely as that, but it's essentially the atheist message. And it scares the crap out of people. Also, you've got the fundamental problem of Atheists looking for proof that, by the very nature of faith, cannot exist. The other religions are at least playing the same game as the Christians; you can't prove us wrong, we can't prove you wrong. The Atheists say "We don't need to prove you wrong, because that's not HOW PROOF WORKS. You prove something RIGHT, not WRONG.". Which changes the rules completely, and religion can't play along.

I've had a similar debate to this on another forum recently, you might want to take a look:

http://thegreatcritic.proboards24.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=miscell&num=1086379542&start=45
Besides the sheep comment lots of truth in it.

I specially like the “prove something right … not wrong” theology … that is a lot of what divides us … most of us (soft atheist not necessarily hard atheists) just are “default” no till you prove it correct … if we got some real conclusive proof we would believe it (most of us)

They do. Repeatedly. Read the comments against Jews and Muslems in some of the posts here. On a larger scale: think of the crusades. Or more recent: Christians fighting other flavours of Christians in Ireland.

But in daily life it is simply so that atheists and Christians are the vocal majorities in most western countries.

Christians also like to mock followers of Wicca and other nature-based belief systems...isn't that weird? Some people like to make fun of Wiccans,who want to protect nature, something they believe that their God created...*shakes her head*

It might also have a lot to do with it unsettling their own faith. It alerts a little bit of the mind I'm sure everyone has, which goes "But, if he's doing it like that... what if he's right?" This would naturally be very worrying and upsetting to them. But if you can talk them round... then YOU must be right? Yeah? Yeah! That's how it works!

People fear the unknown. Atheism is based on the idea that everything's unknown until we find out. Religion is based on the idea that everything's known until we find out otherwise; oh, and incidentally, it's impossible to find out otherwise until you're dead. And dead people don't come back and tell us. If you ask me, that pretty much adds to the Atheist case, but there's ways to work around it.

As for it mainly being Christians that do it, there's several reasons for that. Christianity is based on spreading the good word. Convert EVERYONE. Bring 'em all with us to Heaven.

Judaism, on the other hand, claims to be genetic, which seems awfully unfair to gentiles who decide that the Jews are right.

Islam DOES convert people, it's just they don't often get the chance. The Christians generally got there first in Western countries, and there's not such an established mass-media in Islamic ones, particularly the fundamentalist soopa-hardcore ones.

Buddism converts people too, but takes a very laid-back view to it, jusk like Sihkism and Hinduism. They'll accept you if you want to believe, but they aren't particularly bothered if you don't. They just sell you their book and leave you to make up your mind in the most part.

And Christianity's been beating up Pagan religion and colonising it's festival's since Christianity began. The Easter bunny was Eostre, the hare, until she was reduced to an object of fun (and chocolate). And Eostre was a right filthy little bitch, too. Like you'd imagine a woman called Scarlette would be, only she knows more tricks with her tongue.

That's the thing. They think that Nature is a creation, that a transcendent god rules it, that it is separate from man, and that this god gave man dominion over it (literally, lordship or mastery!). If you believe that, then you think that man has an unconditional right to use Nature as he sees fit, not a limited, legal title to it based on his use and the fruits of his labor (in other words, work giving him a claim that he has to justify by merit, instead of merely inheriting it). So, you see, the pagan world-view recognizes the divinity of Nature, the essential unity of the Cosmos, and the duty to preserve the environment, which are threatening to the Christian attitude of "It's ours, 'cause God gave it to us, so we have a divine right to plunder it."

Also, if you reject the idea of eschatology, or "last things", and you believe that the Cosmos is Eternal (as I do), then man becomes energy, there is a future that we need to make happy and prosperous for posterity, and we can't rape the Earth and leave it as you made it- you have a duty to restore it.

That's the thing. They think that Nature is a creation, that a transcendent god rules it, that it is separate from man, and that this god gave man dominion over it (literally, lordship or mastery!). If you believe that, then you think that man has an unconditional right to use Nature as he sees fit, not a limited, legal title to it based on his use and the fruits of his labor (in other words, work giving him a claim that he has to justify by merit, instead of merely inheriting it).

Well, yes. It's been best summed up in the 'puddle analogy'.

Imagine, if you will, there's a pot hole in ythe road somewhere. One day, it rains heavily, and the pot hole fills up with water, to create the puddle in the title. Now, this puddle can think (don't ask how. It can even be your God , if you have one, gifting it with pure intelligence), and he's sat there, and he thinks "this hole in the ground fits me VERY nicely, doesn't it? It's just the right depth for me to fit in, and it's the perfect distance all the way around for my diameter. It must have been made purely for me.". Which is hopelessly, hopelessly, hopelessly wrong.


It's much the same with man. We evolved perfectly for our environment, because that's exactly how evolution works. Then, we turn around, and we say to ourselves: Oh look, look how perfect everything is for me here, I must surely have been GIVEN this world, to do with as I will. Look how good Mamoths are, you can kill them and use their skin to stay warm. Oh, we've killed them all. Surely not a problem, though, since the world was made for me, so it must have been intentional.

Let's go back to the 'hopelessly, hopelessly, hopelessly wrong' comment, shall we?

In all matters pertaining to religion I take this approach; be polite yet stern. It works on boths sides of the argument equally well I find. Both for those attempting to save, and those attempting to live in peace.

If you are sure of your beliefs then you need not worry of others questioning you. Be polite to them, listen to their advances without disparaging them, then courteously end the discussion.

If you belive others need to be shown the light then by all means introduce them to your religion. If you are refused than you did your duty to your fellow man, time to move on.

Be appreciative that they may in fact mean well, so be polite. Also note that they need to know that you are not interested in their beliefs so be stern.

Know that you are doing your best to show them a better way, but they may have encountered many before you who did the same. Be polite and understand that they have their own beliefs and have the right to end the discussion.

Yes. To make the most of my short time here.

That makes you a Humanist doesn't it? Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.

I'm not an atheist; however, I am an asatanist. :p

Does that mean that you believe in God but not the Devil? Doesn't work that way. If you believe in God, then you (by default) believe in the Devil.

i believe he's trying to say he does not believe in the devil

You get odd looks if you actually :headbang:

Oh, yeah.
Not as odd as if you :sniper: though.
Now *that* one was a hell of a ride...
;)

i believe he's trying to say he does not believe in the devil

Can't. I believe (have faith in) Christ and I also believe in (the existance of, but have no faith in) the Devil.

****

The problem that most people have on this board is that they DO NOT know that there is a HUGE differance between Religion and Faith. They are not even CLOSE to being the samething.

while i usually try to steer clear of most of these religious debates (largely because im either a true agnostic or i just don't care enough about religion to even talk about it, take your pick) an idea hit me recently.

why is it that christians consistantly try and convert athiests, and tell them they are wrong but don't tell people of other religions they are wrong? seems to me their attitude is "if you believe in nothing you are a sinner but if you believe in something else that's ok, or we'll turn a blind eye to it." after all, it does say in the bible that he who believes in god goes to heaven or something like that. and you can't worship false idols (assumedly other gods - like the gods of Hinduism etc?); so why is there such beef between christians and athiests - and not christians and everybody else?
just thought it was odd is all.
Actually I am a Christian and I go against both atheists and non-Christian religions
ps I consider Mormonism as a non-Christian religion even though they proclaim to be Christians

I'd classify myself as a 'weak atheist' as well. For the most part, I tend to avoid religion, just because it causes so much conflict and self-righteousness (I hate being talked down to). Although I am atheist, I will humor my family and go to church on major events (i.e. my sister getting confirmed, Mother's Day).

I've never been called atheist accusingly, I've never been threatened that I'm going to burn in hell for eternity. My mom's the only one who's ever had a problem with it. She asks me what I'm going to do during the "hard times" in my life, and how will I have any hope for my future, etc. I just reply that atheism is much more about self-reliance and confidence in your own abilities than that of a supreme being that you appeal to.

Also, I've never had any Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door... but I can't wait for that to happen. I've never had a serious religious debate before. ;)

why is it that christians consistantly try and convert athiests, and tell them they are wrong but don't tell people of other religions they are wrong? seems to me their attitude is "if you believe in nothing you are a sinner but if you believe in something else that's ok, or we'll turn a blind eye to it." after all, it does say in the bible that he who believes in god goes to heaven or something like that. and you can't worship false idols (assumedly other gods - like the gods of Hinduism etc?); so why is there such beef between christians and athiests - and not christians and everybody else?
just thought it was odd is all.
many christians try to convert members of other religions too.

and if a jehovah's witness comes to the door, do this (my friend did and it got rid of them)

first time they came around, she informed them she was a satanist and shut the door.

the second time they came around, she was cooking and answered the door with a large knife. they tried to ask her about her religion and she politely said "excuse me, but i was in the middle of making a sacrifice here, perhaps you should come back later at a better time." and they never returned.

many christians try to convert members of other religions too.

and if a jehovah's witness comes to the door, do this (my friend did and it got rid of them)

first time they came around, she informed them she was a satanist and shut the door.

the second time they came around, she was cooking and answered the door with a large knife. they tried to ask her about her religion and she politely said "excuse me, but i was in the middle of making a sacrifice here, perhaps you should come back later at a better time." and they never returned.
Ill use the door naked trick but ... we dont get too many out in the middle of farm land minnesota lol I wouldent do a 5 mile walk in -20 F lol

Can't. I believe (have faith in) Christ and I also believe in (the existance of, but have no faith in) the Devil.

You can believe in God without the Devil though. Serveral religions do. I've always wondered whether or not that means that God kind of plays both roles.

The problem that most people have on this board is that they DO NOT know that there is a HUGE differance between Religion and Faith. They are not even CLOSE to being the samething.

All to true. However, religion without faith is nothing, and they ARE related in their inter-dependency. Faith would be capable of surviving without religion, but it would find it much harder to propagate.

You can believe in God without the Devil though. Serveral religions do. I've always wondered whether or not that means that God kind of plays both roles.
All to true. However, religion without faith is nothing, and they ARE related in their inter-dependency. Faith would be capable of surviving without religion, but it would find it much harder to propagate.

You can not have belief in the existance of Christ and not in the existance of the Devil if you believe what the Bible tells you.

***

Religion is nothing more then a set of rules. Go here on this day, eat this, don't eat this, do this, don't do that etc.

Faith is belief. Faith that you are justified via Christ's blood.

why is it that christians consistantly try and convert athiests, and tell them they are wrong but don't tell people of other religions they are wrong? seems to me their attitude is "if you believe in nothing you are a sinner but if you believe in something else that's ok, or we'll turn a blind eye to it." after all, it does say in the bible that he who believes in god goes to heaven or something like that. and you can't worship false idols (assumedly other gods - like the gods of Hinduism etc?); so why is there such beef between christians and athiests - and not christians and everybody else?
just thought it was odd is all.
Not to ignore the thread so far, but I just wanted to address this particular question, even though others have also touched on it.
Many Christians try and convert all who are not Christians, be they atheists, agnostics, Mormons, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists, whatever. We believe that God, who objectively exists, has revealed objective truth to us in the Bible, and that following Jesus Christ and trusting Him to save us is the most important thing anyone can do. We want everyone to do this with us, while accepting that not everyone will.
In the West, especially in the U.S., most people are Christian (at least outwardly) or atheist/agnostic (somewhere on the scale), so most religious discussion ends up between these two groupings. Around the world, Christ is preached to Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.; some of them believe the message of Christ and start following Him, some of them don't.

You can not have belief in the existance of Christ and not in the existance of the Devil if you believe what the Bible tells you.

***

Religion is nothing more then a set of rules. Go here on this day, eat this, don't eat this, do this, don't do that etc.

Faith is belief. Faith that you are justified via Christ's blood.

Wrong actually - you most certainly can believe in Jesus, and still not accept the satan of the bible as an entity, even within scripture.

Revelation might present a bit of a problem, but since many people read Revelation as metaphor, anyway - it's not an insurmountable problem.

You just have to recall, when reading the New Testament, that the word 'satan' comes from the Hebrew title 'HaSatan' - which means opponent, or adversary.

So - when Jesus says "satan" he can be interpreted as referring to a person as an opponent (as in the old, "get thee behind me, satan" type lines), or merely talking about the force of opposition, as he experiences it... thus, if 'satan' shows him all the cities of the world, he is actually experiencing his own temptations, and conquering them.

Wrong actually - you most certainly can believe in Jesus, and still not accept the satan of the bible as an entity, even within scripture.

Revelation might present a bit of a problem, but since many people read Revelation as metaphor, anyway - it's not an insurmountable problem.

You just have to recall, when reading the New Testament, that the word 'satan' comes from the Hebrew title 'HaSatan' - which means opponent, or adversary.

So - when Jesus says "satan" he can be interpreted as referring to a person as an opponent (as in the old, "get thee behind me, satan" type lines), or merely talking about the force of opposition, as he experiences it... thus, if 'satan' shows him all the cities of the world, he is actually experiencing his own temptations, and conquering them.


Not to mention you can believe in the idea of a man named Jesus who was NOT son of God. That let's you discount the whole Devil side entirely.

And no-one should believe everything they read in a book. Unless it's "Fly Fishing" by J R Hartley. It's a religious experience, man.

and if a jehovah's witness comes to the door, do this (my friend did and it got rid of them)

first time they came around, she informed them she was a satanist and shut the door.

the second time they came around, she was cooking and answered the door with a large knife. they tried to ask her about her religion and she politely said "excuse me, but i was in the middle of making a sacrifice here, perhaps you should come back later at a better time." and they never returned.

When the jehovahs come to my house I lock the doors and hide, then proceed to call friends in my neighborhood and advise them to do the same, but your way works too. Those buggers never leave me alone. I'm an athiest so I really don't want to discuss gods and whatnot.

Who wants to sit in a room full of smelly old people early in the morning on Sundays anyway? someone answer me that, please?

Smelly old people on Sunday morning? Explain that? Can't.

What gets me even more is that down my road there is a Catholic church, and on Saturday nights all the roads 'round here are filled with parked cars, 'cause everyone's going to Saturday night mass. Now THAT I just don't get.

Me and my brother are atheists, my parents are Humanists (which doesn't seem ALL that different to me), but my Dad's family is Catholic. They kind of don't speak to us anymore... Just, randomly, 'cause we're different. How does THAT work?

Wrong actually - you most certainly can believe in Jesus, and still not accept the satan of the bible as an entity, even within scripture.

Revelation might present a bit of a problem, but since many people read Revelation as metaphor, anyway - it's not an insurmountable problem.

You just have to recall, when reading the New Testament, that the word 'satan' comes from the Hebrew title 'HaSatan' - which means opponent, or adversary.

So - when Jesus says "satan" he can be interpreted as referring to a person as an opponent (as in the old, "get thee behind me, satan" type lines), or merely talking about the force of opposition, as he experiences it... thus, if 'satan' shows him all the cities of the world, he is actually experiencing his own temptations, and conquering them.

No...the Bible is pretty clear about the existance of Satan.

Either you take what the Bible says as fact or you don't. You can't pick and choose what you want to believe in at and what you don't. That is Satan at work when people do that.

No...the Bible is pretty clear about the existance of Satan.

Either you take what the Bible says as fact or you don't. You can't pick and choose what you want to believe in at and what you don't. That is Satan at work when people do that.

Take the bible as fact, or don't. No middle ground then, huh?

So - whatever the bible says is 100% true in a total, real, physical sense?

So - how is it that the two Genesis accounts of creation conflict?

Why does the bible say that a bat is a type of bird?

Why does it say that Grasshoppers are a four-legged animal?

Also - one assumes that you are a christian - so how do you justify reading the Bible in English? Surely, God separated the tongues for a reason? And yet, you know better than God? You are 'picking and choosing' what to believe, by NOT reading the book in the language in which it was written.

That means, you are ONLY reading what a man considered worthy of translation, and in the words that man translated it.

Thus - you are serving Satan by reading the bible in English... and spreading Satan's word by witnessing the English scripture.

Ok, just because you read the bible in English does NOT IN ANY WAY mean you serve Satan.... Simply by reading the bible, you have "made Satan mad"......... :headbang: :mad: :mad: :mad: :headbang: :sniper: :sniper: Also, the bible IS not 100% correct, but it WAS back in the old times... when the bible said the bat was a bird, it was our fault because WE didn't translate it right.... there are many words in Hebrew that mean many things in English (if you don't understand this, read this slowly, then bash your head on your computer

Jehovah Witnesses have a comeback for almost anything you throw their way. They study a book that gives them reply's/questions, looks like a telemarketers guide.
Few people see the "I am a member of a cult of personality" curveball coming.

Ok, just because you read the bible in English does NOT IN ANY WAY mean you serve Satan.... Simply by reading the bible, you have "made Satan mad"......... :headbang: :mad: :mad: :mad: :headbang: :sniper: :sniper: Also, the bible IS not 100% correct, but it WAS back in the old times... when the bible said the bat was a bird, it was our fault because WE didn't translate it right.... there are many words in Hebrew that mean many things in English (if you don't understand this, read this slowly, then bash your head on your computer

Simply reading the bible doesn't make 'satan' mad... I don't know where you got that idea.. after all, were that to be true, Satan and Jesus could not have debated scripture, no could they?

You need to get together with your erstwhile colleague, and see if you can't iron out a 'story' that you can stick to. You say that reading the bible makes satan mad, the other poster says reading the bible is promoting satan... you have to choose a lane.

Yes, there are many words in Hebrew that mean many things in English. Curious that you should mention that - since the average 'christian' seems to believe that the English translation is inerrant, and that the meaning has benn 'protected'.

But, for an example of what you are saying - let's Look to Leviticus 18:22 - and perhaps you can explain why this verse is assumed to have anything to do with homosexuals??? The Hebrew clearly does not.

Take the bible as fact, or don't. No middle ground then, huh?

So - whatever the bible says is 100% true in a total, real, physical sense?

So - how is it that the two Genesis accounts of creation conflict?

Why does the bible say that a bat is a type of bird?

Why does it say that Grasshoppers are a four-legged animal?

Also - one assumes that you are a christian - so how do you justify reading the Bible in English? Surely, God separated the tongues for a reason? And yet, you know better than God? You are 'picking and choosing' what to believe, by NOT reading the book in the language in which it was written.

That means, you are ONLY reading what a man considered worthy of translation, and in the words that man translated it.

Thus - you are serving Satan by reading the bible in English... and spreading Satan's word by witnessing the English scripture.

That is complete analytical crap.

1st off, show me some references for these, please, show me. Secondly, yes the Bible in and of itself states that it is completely true and divinely inspired, if you're not going to take the whole thing, then there is no reason to believe in any validition within the Bible at all. Next, there is no creation conflict. Finally, do you know why tongues were separated? It has nothing to do with the original language that the Bible was written in. There is little to no discrepancy within the translations and the ones that are in existence are minor in all effects. If you want a literal translation then get a different translation. We read the Bible in English because we don't know Greek or Hebrew, yet the Bible states that the Gentiles, that is non-Jewish people can also be saved. Thus, how are you serving Satan? Please, show me some Biblical reference here where it says the Bible must be read in Hebrew or Greek.

They (mostly) don't particularly mind Muslims/Jews, since they all serve the same master and the only real bone of contention is Christ's status. Whereas atheists don't serve any God. I cringe at the awful arguments my brothers and sisters use against atheists though… religious arguments to a non-religious person… might work for an apostate but not an atheist

Christians and Muslims do NOT serve the same God at all! HUGE difference in religion.

Take the bible as fact, or don't. No middle ground then, huh?

So - whatever the bible says is 100% true in a total, real, physical sense?

So - how is it that the two Genesis accounts of creation conflict?

Why does the bible say that a bat is a type of bird?

Why does it say that Grasshoppers are a four-legged animal?

Also - one assumes that you are a christian - so how do you justify reading the Bible in English? Surely, God separated the tongues for a reason? And yet, you know better than God? You are 'picking and choosing' what to believe, by NOT reading the book in the language in which it was written.

That means, you are ONLY reading what a man considered worthy of translation, and in the words that man translated it.

Thus - you are serving Satan by reading the bible in English... and spreading Satan's word by witnessing the English scripture.

read the Bible before you argue about things in it. If you read the Bible in the original language you would have to know Egyptian,Hebrew,and Latin. About serving Satan stupidest arguement I have ever heard It's not even worthy to be debated.

Christians and Muslims do NOT serve the same God at all! HUGE difference in religion.
Just to be clear, Muslims worship the same God as Christians, and Christians worship the same God as Jews. Jews do not worship the same God as Christians, and Christians do not worship the same God as Muslims.

read the Bible before you argue about things in it. If you read the Bible in the original language you would have to know Egyptian,Hebrew,and Latin. About serving Satan stupidest arguement I have ever heard It's not even worthy to be debated.

Now, I know that Grave is about to open a big can of whoopass all over you, but I do have to ask one question.

Since theological scholars can't even answer this - perhaps you can. Which parts of the Bible were originally written in Egyptian? And which were originally written in Latin?

Since theological scholars can't even answer this - perhaps you can. Which parts of the Bible were originally written in Egyptian? And which were originally written in Latin?


Egyptian= The books written by Moses he was raised in Egypt.

Latin= Parts of New Testament

Since theological scholars can't even answer this - perhaps you can

I think you got your facts mixed up. Theological scholars can answer these questions.

Just to be clear, Muslims worship the same God as Christians

No they don't Muslims serve Allah pagen hostile god. Christians serve The Holy Trinity ONE god but three parts of him. He is a loving God. See the difference?

Now, I know that Grave is about to open a big can of whoopass all over you

I'm still waiting.

No they don't Muslims serve Allah pagen hostile god. Christians serve The Holy Trinity ONE god but three parts of him. He is a loving God. See the difference?
I really don't feel like arguing this, so I'll state my point again, maybe in better terms this time. Muslims believe they are worshipping the same God as the Jews and Christians. Christians believe that Muslims are worshipping some other "pagan hostile god" as you put it.

I really don't feel like arguing this, so I'll state my point again, maybe in better terms this time. Muslims believe they are worshipping the same God as the Jews and Christians. Christians believe that Muslims are worshipping some other "pagan hostile god" as you put it.


Im afraid your painting Christians in a much more benevolent light than they deserve.

Christians believe in ONE god...no other.
Therefore according to a christian.....everyone elses religions are invalid.

Look, let's not have atheists debating what Christians believe in. We believe that both Jews and Muslims worship the same God, but that they don't accept that God sent His Son onto earth as Jesus, and that there is a Holy Trinity. However, all three nfaiths believe in the same God.

Look, let's not have atheists debating what Christians believe in. We believe that both Jews and Muslims worship the same God, but that they don't accept that God sent His Son onto earth as Jesus, and that there is a Holy Trinity. However, all three nfaiths believe in the same God.


Really?

Then perhaps you can tell me why the Muslims God is named Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet, and in the Ten Commandments, it says "I am the one true God (implying that there are no others) and you shall worship no other Gods before me?" (contradicting itself in one paragraph.)

Really?

Then perhaps you can tell me why the Muslims God is named Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet, and in the Ten Commandments, it says "I am the one true God (implying that there are no others) and you shall worship no other Gods before me?" (contradicting itself in one paragraph.)

Allah is just his name.

Mohammed was A prophet. Not THE prohpet. In islamic belief, Jesus was a prophet too. *nod*

Allah is just his name.

Mohammed was A prophet. Not THE prohpet. In islamic belief, Jesus was a prophet too. *nod*


I could be mistaken Goof, but doesnt the first line f the Koran go something like.."God's name is Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet".

Muslims say that Jesus was a prophet too.

Thats pretty liberal, I'd say.

Ask a Christian if Mohammed was a prophet of God...;)

Look, let's not have atheists debating what Christians believe in. We believe that both Jews and Muslims worship the same God, but that they don't accept that God sent His Son onto earth as Jesus, and that there is a Holy Trinity. However, all three nfaiths believe in the same God.
No, we really don't. I'm a Jew, and I'll be damned if the Holy Trinity and Allah are the same as the God I worship.

Does that mean that you believe in God but not the Devil? Doesn't work that way. If you believe in God, then you (by default) believe in the Devil.

Where in the world did you get that strange idea? I believe in God, but I don't believe in the devil. If he/she isn't simply a made up villain used to inspire fear and thus obedience amongst believers, than he/she is an attempt to shift the blame for evil off of humanity's collective shoulders. In my opinion, anyway.

No, we really don't. I'm a Jew, and I'll be damned if the Holy Trinity and Allah are the same as the God I worship.

Probably. :D

Probably. :D
So this guy dies and Satan is taking him on a tour of Hell. The first place they go is the Hell reserved for Christians. It's what you would expect of Hell: fire, brimstone, wailing and gnashing of teeth, etc. The next place they go is the Hell reserved for Muslims. It's pretty much the same thing, with millions of damned souls being tortured by demons, their cries filling the air. Finally they go to the Hell reserved for Jews, and to the dead guy's surprise it's lush and green, with people frolicking about without a care in the world. So the guy asks Satan, "What happened here?" Satan replies, "Damn Israelis and their irrigation."

So this guy dies and Satan is taking him on a tour of Hell. The first place they go is the Hell reserved for Christians. It's what you would expect of Hell: fire, brimstone, wailing and gnashing of teeth, etc. The next place they go is the Hell reserved for Muslims. It's pretty much the same thing, with millions of damned souls being tortured by demons, their cries filling the air. Finally they go to the Hell reserved for Jews, and to the dead guy's surprise it's lush and green, with people frolicking about without a care in the world. So the guy asks Satan, "What happened here?" Satan replies, "Damn Israelis and their irrigation."

LOL.

If a jehovah's witness comes to the door, do this: Just show them your Satanic Medallion or Satanic Skull Cross necklace and if that doesn't work, just say "Hail Satan!" over and over. They will throw up (That really did happened) and/or they will sh*t their pants and run like Hell! I did this once in Church as a joke and the Preacher was throwing up! I was laughing my head off. It's funny as Hell. If you want a good laugh do the above steps.

I am a Satan Follower (By my own free will):Medivh

P.S. Christians don't believe that anyone can be a Satanist without being "Misguided" or "Controled by the Devil" and that's just damn wrong! I chose to worship Satan because this religion makes more sence (everyone being equal, instead of being slaves to someone (Jesus/God) who claims to be more powerful then you and me. and that's not even true [in the Satanism Religion point of view] we all have control over the world around us).

If a jehovah's witness comes to the door, do this: Just show them your Satanic Medallion or Satanic Skull Cross necklace and if that doesn't work, just say "Hail Satan!" over and over. They will throw up (That really did happened) and/or they will sh*t their pants and run like Hell! I did this once in Church as a joke and the Preacher was throwing up! I was laughing my head off. It's funny as Hell. If you want a good laugh do the above steps.

I am a Satan Follower (By my own free will):Medivh

P.S. Christians don't believe that anyone can be a Satanist without being "Misguided" or "Controled by the Devil" and that's just damn wrong! I chose to worship Satan because this religion makes more sence (everyone being equal, instead of being slaves to someone (Jesus/God) who claims to be more powerful then you and me. and that's not even true [in the Satanism Religion point of view] we all have control over the world around us).

So... if you break the rules of your faith, are you ...er...damned...to heaven? :confused:

God, no. Atheists are simply misguided (there, I'm being charitable!), and without an overarching system of morality and purpose. Those were dark days… anyway, atheists are not Satanists. Satanists are fools who are throwing their souls away to a traitorous dæmon, hating all that is good, lustful, bloodthirsty, and practicing human sacrifice. I can't think why anyone would want to worship the Dragon (the Devil takes the form of a dragon) in their right mind.

Hey Christian jerk! Stop hating Satanism! We just like to mind our own business. Your beliefs are not better then mine. We are not fools! Perhaps you are for making those false and hateful comments above.

Satan (as we believe is not traitorous, God/or Jesus was. God/Jesus dosen't want anyone to have a free will, but Satan has one and granted free will to other angels. But God didn't like that, and Satan lost the battle and got kicked out of Heaven along with half of the angels from Heaven. That's my view anyway.) We don't hate all that is good. [We just don't like your religion being shoved down our throats or being slaves to the rules of God/Gods]. When you are a Satanist you have true free will! We are not all lustful [only if you chose to be] , bloodthirsty bastards [we don't drink blood, only if you want to but drinking blood has nothing to do with Satanism, and WE DON'T DO HUMAN SACRIFICES!!! I have a good IQ and I've studied the Christian Bible and Satanic Bible, and the Satanic way of life just makes more since.

We believe in:Be kind to others if they are kind to you, but if others hurt you, hurt them back. [From the "Satanic Bible"]

You attack my religion with words as I did the same with yours. Most of us also don't believe in a dragon lord, I believe in a angel form of Satan (Or whatever name you know him as) in black spiked armor with a blood sword with a army of Dark Angels. As he is always planing for another fight with God. That is my personal view of Satan, other Satanist may have differnt views about the way he looks it, but it doesn't matter much. Because most Satanist are athiests anyway. I only believe in Jesus because I wish to do battle against him along side Satan.

You need to study the "Satanic Bible" before mouthing off at something you don't know about.

Posted by Satan Follower Lord Medivh

Wow. I never thought I'd see a Satanic Fundamentalist.

So... if you break the rules of your faith, are you ...er...damned...to heaven? :confused:

There are no rules when your a Satanist just basic guidelines and you don't even have to follow those either.

We have control over the world around us, and we all refer ourselfs as "Lord". We are all equal, even to Satan, Jesus and all other Gods.

We can do anything we want. Most of us Satanist don't believe in a after life, because most of us are athiests and don't bleieve in God all together, but you can believe in any part of Satanism you want. (I do believe in a after life and Jesus because I wish to do battle against him).

I don't want to go to Heavan (if it exist), because I don't want to be in a perfect white place forever! That would be worse then being chained in Hell (That's just my personal view). In Hell, Satan's followers will be the Punishers of Hell. We will punish the the sinners (people who worship a false god and force their beliefs on others and punish the people who hurt other people for no reason.

That's just my personal view because most Satan followers believe we live life once with no after life so you got to enjoy life to the fullest without worry of burning in Hell forever because of some mental freak told you so!

So in a way, we are alot like athiests. We are not crazy or bloodthirsty as the media and the crazy Christians (not all of them) has made us out to be. We are nice repectful people and we deserve just as much repect as anyone us!!!!!!

Posted by Satanist Lord Medivh

Wow. I never thought I'd see a Satanic Fundamentalist.
Hahahaha and I'm nice too. Yep, it's time someone has steped up and defend Satanism! And this is only one of the few places I can do it without being banned.

And we don't shove our views down the throats of anyone, unlike some people.

The bad rumors about us have gotten way out of hand!

We have a program called S.T.A.R.S. Meaning Straight Talk About Real Satanism. It's also on cd. Go to churchofsatan.org to order the CD S.T.A.R.S.

So come on, bring on your questions and hate mail!

My email is Medivh@dswebnet.com

Where is the love?

Posted by Satanist Lord Medivh

So in a way, we are alot like athiests. We are not crazy or bloodthirsty as the media and the crazy Christians (not all of them) has made us out to be. We are nice repectful people and we deserve just as much repect as anyone us!!!!!!


You're nothing like atheists. You're just the flipside of a ratty old coin best left to gather dust. If you want a clean break, forgo dualism for true spiritual freedom. Set your own agenda. Fuck the Judeo-Christian archetypes and see the world with your own eyes.

Then talk to me about crazy Christians - 'til then, you're just another part of the same slave religion those crazies like inflicting on everyone else, including the atheists.


DT.

You're nothing like atheists. You're just the flipside of a ratty old coin best left to gather dust. If you want a clean break, forgo dualism for true spiritual freedom. Set your own agenda. Fuck the Judeo-Christian archetypes and see the world with your own eyes.

Then talk to me about crazy Christians - 'til then, you're just another part of the same slave religion those crazies like inflicting on everyone else, including the atheists.


DT.

Well I know that you don't know anything about true Satanism. Did you read my earlier posts? In Satanism we are all equal, and you don't have to worship any god if you want, and you can live with no rules. So how are we slaves? Haha I win.

By the way if we are not like athiests why is it that 70% of all Satanist are athiests. Looks like I win again.

Study the "Satanic Bible" and try again. Mahahahaha.

We deserve just as much repect as anyone us!

By the way what is this Forgo Dualism? I haven't heard of that. Where can I go to get more info about it. I would like to know more.

Posted by Satanist Lord Medivh

Some Satanist believe in multiple Dark Gods here's a part from another Satanic Bible:Lord Horazon version/Old Testament.

"Seven is the number of the powers of Hell, and seven is the number of great evils.

Duriel, The Lord of Pain
Andariel, The Lord of Anguish
Belial, The Lord of Lies
Azmodan, The Lord of Sin
Mephisto, The Lord of Hatred
Baal, The Lord of Destruction
Diablo, The Lord of Terror


Satan, The Lord of Evil and Holy Lord of Hell"
Passage from the Satanic Bible Old Testament:The Dark Exile 3:12

(Satan didn't count as a great evil because he is known as a "Holy Lord" of Hell in this version of the Satanic Bible, and yes I do know that Diablo is another common name for Satan, but in this version Diablo and Satan are two diffrent Lords.)

I just thought that I should add this because some Christians think that there is only one prime evil Lord. So if they want to get rid of Satan, seven other Lords will replace his seat of power. But once again that's just a Satanic point of view, not yours.

And you can be Satanist without worshiping any Gods if you want. Some Satanist just live the way of life as a Satanist without worshiping any gods.

Posted by Satanist Lord Medivh

read the Bible before you argue about things in it. If you read the Bible in the original language you would have to know Egyptian,Hebrew,and Latin. About serving Satan stupidest arguement I have ever heard It's not even worthy to be debated.

Interesting, my friend... I HAVE read the Bible in many languages... which, I would wager, is more than can be said for you.

To hand, at this very moment, I have French (Darby), and German, which I read, and Russian, Korean and Chinese that I don't read, but that I think are lovely to look at.

I also have a full Hebrew/Greek and Aramaic version - perhaps you meant Aramaic when you said Egyptian? If you MEAN Egyptian, one assumes you mean Coptic, yes?

Unfortunately, I do not own a Coptic Bible, but I would like one.

I read another post later, that claims that Moses wrote the Mosaic texts in Egyptian.. but, you realise of course that that is untrue, yes?

Where should I start?

First - it would be against the religious 'laws' of both Kem and Hebrew culture to write a Hebrew scripture in Egyptian characters.

Second - The most likely candidate in actual recorded Egyptian history to match the biblical Moses, is the General Mousos - who was not educated in "the Place of Truth", and so could not have known the Egyptian iconography.

Third - The earliest recorded copies of Mosaic scripture are all in Hebrew, I'm not sure where you heard that they were Egyptian.

Fourth - Moses didn't actually WRITE the Mosaic texts (although, it is possible he may have dictated parts of them). This is easily verified by reading the last few chapters of Mosaic text - which clearly describe Moses' funeral.

Fifth - The Mosaic texts were written during or after captivity in Babylon, since the Hebrews had no written tradition prior to that point.
Thus - if there WERE another version of the Mosaic texts, it would be in Babylonian, not Egyptian.

Oh - and I have read the Bible in Hebrew/Greek and Aramaic - and Latin.

If you haven't - now might be the time to retire gracefully.

That is complete analytical crap.

1st off, show me some references for these, please, show me. Secondly, yes the Bible in and of itself states that it is completely true and divinely inspired, if you're not going to take the whole thing, then there is no reason to believe in any validition within the Bible at all. Next, there is no creation conflict. Finally, do you know why tongues were separated? It has nothing to do with the original language that the Bible was written in. There is little to no discrepancy within the translations and the ones that are in existence are minor in all effects. If you want a literal translation then get a different translation. We read the Bible in English because we don't know Greek or Hebrew, yet the Bible states that the Gentiles, that is non-Jewish people can also be saved. Thus, how are you serving Satan? Please, show me some Biblical reference here where it says the Bible must be read in Hebrew or Greek.

So - where in the Bible does it say "the Bible in and of itself states that it is completely true and divinely inspired"?

I'm struggling here, because there was no 'bible' until about 300 years AFTER the last texts were written... and some of the texts that WERE considered true at THAT point, are no longer in the text... explain?

Perhaps you are confused about 'all scripture' being divinely inspired? Of course, that makes the Koran divinely inspired, also... how do you explain that?

You haven't read the bible - one assumes - if you insist that there is no 'creation conflict'... since there are VERY clearly two separate versions just of the creation act itself.

The tongues were divided to stop people working together - more or less. AFTER that point, the scripture was given to Moses (or whoever actually wrote the Mosaic texts). Thus - God clearly planned on the Old Testament being written in Hebrew.

So - if you don't READ the Hebrew, you are not reading the word of God.

Which makes you, I'm afraid, an apostate and heretic, selling a perverted version of scripture. Blasphemy.

YOU don't know Hebrew. If you REALLY cared what god had said, you WOULD know Hebrew. That you choose not to, says more about YOU, than about scripture.

Oh - and that last point? A biblical reference where it says that the Bible MUST be in the Hebrew/Aramaic and Greek?

Revelation 22:18-9 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:"

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."


And, please - don't even get me started on the 'inerrant' bible... I could list you discrepancies/contradictions and errors by the handful.

Admit you were wrong, and bow out gracefully, while you still have a shred of respectability.