NationStates Jolt Archive

Heres a question:

Now, i've never been anti-chrisitan or anything like that (i was rased by a catholic family, and still technically am one), but why do christians always think they are right and shove it in other people's faces. I mean, Christians think that they are right no matter what, and if someone thinks different they must be hung from the highest tree. Didn't Jesus say "Treat others as you would want to be treated"? I mean, if anything, it should be the Hindu's who are bragging! Their Religion is the oldest major one on Earth, thousands of years older than judaism yet it's got more than 800 million followers! But they won't brag. Why? Because religions of Indic origin such as Hinduism, Sikhism and Buddhism believe that "all religions are true and are only different paths to the same truth".

So why do the majority of christians have to be so friggen MEAN? Example:

Muslim: Jesus was the Messiah sent by god to fortell the coming of Muhammed. However, he is not the son of god, but he DOES sit at the hand of god and shall slay the Muslim version of the anti-christ.

Christian: What? Thats not what the bible says! How about you follow the bible instead of that funny book of yours?

Muslim: No thank you. You follow your bible, and I shall follow my Qu'ran, mmmmkay?

Chrisitan: I don't think so, Mister! DIE!

'cuz there's more Christians.

Heres a question:

Now, i've never been anti-chrisitan or anything like that (i was rased by a catholic family, and still technically am one), but why do christians always think they are right and shove it in other people's faces. I mean, Christians think that they are right no matter what, and if someone thinks different they must be hung from the highest tree. Didn't Jesus say "Treat others as you would want to be treated"? I mean, if anything, it should be the Hindu's who are bragging! Their Religion is the oldest major one on Earth, thousands of years older than judaism yet it's got more than 800 million followers! But they won't brag. Why? Because religions of Indic origin such as Hinduism, Sikhism and Buddhism believe that "all religions are true and are only different paths to the same truth".

So why do the majority of christians have to be so friggen MEAN? Example:

Muslim: Jesus was the Messiah sent by god to fortell the coming of Muhammed. However, he is not the son of god, but he DOES sit at the hand of god and shall slay the Muslim version of the anti-christ.

Christian: What? Thats not what the bible says! How about you follow the bible instead of that funny book of yours?

Muslim: No thank you. You follow your bible, and I shall follow my Qu'ran, mmmmkay?

Chrisitan: I don't think so, Mister! DIE!
It is what there religion tells them to do.

Because they're dumbasses.

Why do our peaceful Muslim brothers like to cut off the heads of innocent people?

ehhh it is not only christian thing ... most religions have thoes followers ... but with the sheer numbers maybe they are a little more insulated

So that the Christian religion can be spread throughout the entire world and take control so that their will be done.

ehhh it is not only christian thing ... most religions have thoes followers ... but with the sheer numbers maybe they are a little more insulated
I'll toast to that. That's basically the way I see it.

Why do our peaceful Muslim brothers like to cut off the heads of innocent people?
More like evil twin brother that stole our identity and murdered

More like evil twin brother that stole our identity and murdered

*Shakes head gravely*

I think you are painting Christianity with a fairly large paintbrush there.
Every religion has its share of extremists, no matter whever its Christianity, Muslem, Jewish or whatever.

Why do our peaceful Muslim brothers like to cut off the heads of innocent people?

For the same reason that American soldiers like to sexually assault and humiliate innocent people.

OH SNAP!

For the same reason that American soldiers like to sexually assault and humiliate innocent people.

OH SNAP!

Oh yeah, so many sexual assaults. A few more terrorist beheadings and bombings, me thinks.

BTW-Humiliation, come on, grow a spine. I've seen worse crap then a human naked pyramid at a girl scout campout.

It is what there religion tells them to do.
You've been meeting the wrong kinds of Christians. Unfortunately, the Christians who don't shove their religion down the throats of others appear to be a minority because we're less vocal. And some of us, like me, seem to be walking fonts of hypocrisy and are therefore not taken seriously.

Oh yeah, so many sexual assaults. A few more terrorist beheadings and bombings, me thinks.

BTW-Humiliation, come on, grow a spine. I've seen worse crap then a human naked pyramid at a girl scout campout.
You been on a girlscout campout?

"Shoppin" for your next date? (or maybe "laying" some more of that "pipe")

Why do our peaceful Muslim brothers like to cut off the heads of innocent people?

Yeah, and why did our righteous christian brothers wipe out numerous religions and kill off 6 million+ jews?

Yeah, and why did our righteous christian brothers wipe out numerous religions and kill off 6 million+ jews?
Ehhh lack of church response to the problem while bad really is not them being the CAUSE of it (dont get worked up over that idiot)

In my opinion, highly religious people who do NOT attempt to shove it down your throat can provide some of the most insightful discussions. For example, I am a Secular Humanist, though I attended a Catholic school (being a Catholic by baptism). My Religious Education class was one of my favourites - despite being atheist, theology and "belief" interest me. Both science and religion are simply different expressions of the inate desire for an explaination for our world, so they really aren't that different.

Anyway, this teacher provided some very thought-provoking insights into my own beliefs. Though I do not believe in a "higher being", in reality, we both shared many similar values. Don't get me wrong, we'd disagree on some points (such as my homosexuality), however neither ever attempted to force others beliefs upon anyone else.

So, basically, I'm trying to say that not all Christians (in fact, very few) are like that. Most simply want to have their beliefs, as you have yours. Most humans, despite their religious convictions, don't want to harm others intentionally. We're not so different anyway.

Not all of the christian churches convert actively. Lutherians convert
only in confirmations.

I'm a jew and I think jews always think they're right either... muslims think they're the new faith so everyone has to bow to 'Alah' (I was told that by a Turk)... Almost every faith does that

Yeah, and why did our righteous christian brothers wipe out numerous religions and kill off 6 million+ jews?

Oh and where were the Nazis Christian?

The reason why people see the Christians as people that tell others they are wrong and that they are self-rightous is because what you don't see you don't think about. You pointed out how Hinduis (sp?) don't brag about being right, and I feel that the majority of the Christians don't either. The highest numbered Christian "church" is found in China, in the underground churches, though they don't make it as open because its against the law to openly practice or recruit religion and they don't feel that they should rub it in.

Every religion has its Zealots and Extremists. People tend to judge a people or faith by the worst found in or claiming to be a part of.

Every American is a rich tycoon or supports one, The british have bad teeth, and the French can't fight.

Ehhh lack of church response to the problem while bad really is not them being the CAUSE of it (dont get worked up over that idiot)

I'm such an idiot! Thanks for the info, quiz-kid!

I'm such an idiot! Thanks for the info, quiz-kid!
No problem any time

I would like to add something, even though I have already spoken on the subject:
Just looking at the threads on this board, I could ask why Atheists always feel the need to shove their non-belief down the throats of every person who comes their way. There are consistently four or so threads on the first page alone trying to disprove God or Judeo-Christian beliefs. If I used those people as my sample group, I could easily say that all atheists are out to get religious people. We all know that this is not the case. It is merely that we notice those people who are vocal about something, not the people who try to be friendly and understanding. It's the same theory that created the adage "nice guys finish last."

You been on a girlscout campout?

"Shoppin" for your next date? (or maybe "laying" some more of that "pipe")


Do you suffer from low self esteem in regards to your genitals? I can see no other point in you bringing this up so often. So sorry to hear about it, maybe one of those pills could work for you.

BTW I was looking for a date, as I was just a punk kid like you.

No problem any time


Well you're the moron who lives in Minnesota! Nice shitty team there btw.

I'm a jew and I think jews always think they're right either... muslims think they're the new faith so everyone has to bow to 'Alah' (I was told that by a Turk)... Almost every faith does that

Actually Muslims don't say that everyone bows to them...

Here are a few exerpts from the Qu'ran with translations into plain English in green

[29:2] Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe,"
without being put to the test?

Thus, you can be a Christian Submitter, a Jewish Submitter or Muslim Submitter. The Quran speaks about this unity of Submitters:

[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians,
and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in
the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their
recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

It is very interesting that God gives only one criterion in the Quran for distinguishing among the people. This criterion is not the name of a religion, but rather, righteousness which is the core of Submission.

Well you're the moron who lives in Minnesota! Nice shitty team there btw.
Which .... they are all bad?
Dont really matter to me ... watching sports is not really my thing ... dont mind playin them but just so ... booring rather catch something educational on tv anyways

I would like to add something, even though I have already spoken on the subject:
Just looking at the threads on this board, I could ask why Atheists always feel the need to shove their non-belief down the throats of every person who comes their way. There are consistently four or so threads on the first page alone trying to disprove God or Judeo-Christian beliefs. If I used those people as my sample group, I could easily say that all atheists are out to get religious people. We all know that this is not the case. It is merely that we notice those people who are vocal about something, not the people who try to be friendly and understanding. It's the same theory that created the adage "nice guys finish last."

Yeah, you're right I guess.

But the Active-christians are ALOT more extreme than the atheists (last i checked, the KKK was Christian. I think.) Unless you count communists as atheists...

Yeah, you're right I guess.

But the Active-christians are ALOT more extreme than the atheists (last i checked, the KKK was Christian. I think.) Unless you count communists as atheists...
The KKK is not affiliated with religion, although they do enjoy a good cross-burning. People of all faiths (or lack thereof) can and do hate. Just take a look at the atheists who are against gay marriage (granted, they are harder to find) and you'll get my point.

It's funny you should mention Communism. Communism is the reason "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegience, and why the national motto was changed from "E Pluribus Unum" to "In God We Trust." Americans felt the need to distance ourselves from the "Godless" Communists. But that probably doesn't help my point at all...

Actually Muslims don't say that everyone bows to them...

Here are a few exerpts from the Qu'ran with translations into plain English in green

[29:2] Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe,"
without being put to the test?

Thus, you can be a Christian Submitter, a Jewish Submitter or Muslim Submitter. The Quran speaks about this unity of Submitters:

[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians,
and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in
the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their
recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

It is very interesting that God gives only one criterion in the Quran for distinguishing among the people. This criterion is not the name of a religion, but rather, righteousness which is the core of Submission.

Nice false religion there. Name one true miracle your founder did. Your religion is as laughable as Mormonism.

booring rather catch something educational on tv anyways

One Word:NERD, shoot I shouldn't say that on NS.

Nice false religion there. Name one true miracle your founder did. Your religion is as laughable as Mormonism.
Nice job. Way to prove that we Christians don't do exactly what you're doing right now. Unless you're trying to give Christians a bad name and are not in fact Christian yourself...

One Word:NERD, shoot I shouldn't say that on NS.
More of a geek but ya know into anything …history war … hell love a good off-roading show (if not doing it myself) funny people always call me a hick till they find out I do computer work

Oh well I do whatever seems fun to me … sports are not among them

Nice false religion there. Name one true miracle your founder did. Your religion is as laughable as Mormonism.
So if I make up a religion that has a “founder” that does all sorts of cool thing does that make my religion better then yours?

So if I make up a religion that has a “founder” that does all sorts of cool thing does that make my religion better then yours?

oh no, you have to be a war vet and think just like him and think of something better then he has thought of, before he will think anything you say is anything more then softie new age mush.

oh no, you have to be a war vet and think just like him and think of something better then he has thought of, before he will think anything you say is anything more then softie new age mush.
Ohhh good to know

The Christians you're talking about just seem numerous because they're loud. I am a faithful Christian, but I try not to judge or condmen people, because Jesus told us that we don't have the right to do that. There are a lot more of us than there are of the Christians who are all like, "the gays are going to hell," and whatnot.

Nice false religion there. Name one true miracle your founder did. Your religion is as laughable as Mormonism.Do you think Jesus would have said what you just said?

The Christians you're talking about just seem numerous because they're loud. I am a faithful Christian, but I try not to judge or condmen people, because Jesus told us that we don't have the right to do that. There are a lot more of us than there are of the Christians who are all like, "the gays are going to hell," and whatnot.


dispise the sin, but love the sinner

oh and, judge a man not by his actions but by his heart, and only G-d can see a man's heart. (I take that to mean, don't judge)

Nice job. Way to prove that we Christians don't do exactly what you're doing right now. Unless you're trying to give Christians a bad name and are not in fact Christian yourself...


I'm not exactly a christian either, just funny how so many people could follow something sillier then Mormonism.

Do you think Jesus would have said what you just said?


Actually he would have.

You see the Christianity in the churches you attend today is an abomination of the true message of God. Why don't they teach the true gosphel?

How can you call yourself Christian when you celebrate pagan holidays? Esp Easter Sunday and Christmas.

Another silly thing about so called Christians are the "churches" that allow gays to preach, and women as well.

Kind of against everything Jesus spoke of.

dispise the sin, but love the sinner

oh and, judge a man not by his actions but by his heart, and only G-d can see a man's heart. (I take that to mean, don't judge)

So you can't judge a man who broke man's law, when God tells us to obey the law of man as you should obey Caeser.

A good thing about the US is that the way we set up this government, we are all Caesers.

So you can't judge a man who broke man's law, when God tells us to obey the law of man as you should obey Caeser.


You have such a narrow sight on things. You judge the crime, not the man. The bible also says not to cause another to go against their belief, for if you do, you sin. The law of G-d and the Law of Man are two different subjects.

The Christians you're talking about just seem numerous because they're loud. I am a faithful Christian, but I try not to judge or condmen people, because Jesus told us that we don't have the right to do that. There are a lot more of us than there are of the Christians who are all like, "the gays are going to hell," and whatnot.

Jesus told you to judge their sin. Would not a murderer be a murderer, if you couldn't judge them of their sin. There is no real hellfire, just eternal seperation from God. Unrepentent homosexuals are condemned to eternal death. Remember when those men brought that fornicating woman to Jesus. They wanted to trick Jesus into condemning this fornicator. Now Jesus was smart, he wrote in the dirt the same sin of each accuser there. He then said "Woman, where are thou accusers?" Now he didn't just dismiss her, he told her to go and sin NO more. He was telling her that what she was doing was wrong and that she had to stop it, or else.

Jesus told you to judge their sin. Would not a murderer be a murderer, if you couldn't judge them of their sin. There is no real hellfire, just eternal seperation from God. Unrepentent homosexuals are condemned to eternal death. Remember when those men brought that fornicating woman to Jesus. They wanted to trick Jesus into condemning this fornicator. Now Jesus was smart, he wrote in the dirt the same sin of each accuser there. He then said "Woman, where are thou accusers?" Now he didn't just dismiss her, he told her to go and sin NO more. He was telling her that what she was doing was wrong and that she had to stop it, or else.

yeah he showed that faith was more important then being judged. read the new testament. It clearly says that ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of G-d. It also says no sin is greater then another, and it says that all those that seek Christ will find him. It doesnt say, those who seek the bible or seek the Christians, it says those that seek Christ. You don't know what he meant, all we know is that Faith is more important then the rules, Those that live by the law, live by a curse, for the only reward that the Law can give is death.

You have such a narrow sight on things. You judge the crime, not the man. The bible also says not to cause another to go against their belief, for if you do, you sin. The law of G-d and the Law of Man are two different subjects.

The two laws are different, but you must submit to both laws or you are sinful. This is why adulterers were no longer stoned, as Rome felt it was not a worthy enough crime to warrant the dp. That is why these kinds of executions ended. The ten commandments are spiritual laws. Besides in the OT days, there was no spirit of God in the people, there was only one way to salvation, and that was grace. When Jesus came he changed all of that.

Why is it narrow to follow the actual teachings of Jesus? Your church obviously does not teach the truth.

The two laws are different, but you must submit to both laws or you are sinful. This is why adulterers were no longer stoned, as Rome felt it was not a worthy enough crime to warrant the dp. That is why these kinds of executions ended. The ten commandments are spiritual laws. Besides in the OT days, there was no spirit of God in the people, there was only one way to salvation, and that was grace. When Jesus came he changed all of that.

Why is it narrow to follow the actual teachings of Jesus? Your church obviously does not teach the truth.
Doesn't teach the truth?

I do believe Jesus said that it was never the law that saved people, but it was always through Faith. He talked about Abraham and Moses when he said that too. Jesus also said, when questioned on what Commandments to follow replied with only two, Know G-d in with all your heart, mind and soul, and do onto others as you would have done to yourself. Jesus also said that the only the living had to live by the Law, and that all his followers were to be like him, dead to the world, so the laws no longer bound us. He said those that followed him would be lead by the Spirit, that had been on the earth since the beginning. It was what gave the Visions to the Prophets. It just wasn't granted out like it is today. The Holy spirit came to help people walk the path without Jesus being directly there.

All that I have said comes directly from the Bible, if you would like to prove me otherwise, quote it, and I'll be here to answer.

yeah he showed that faith was more important then being judged. read the new testament. It clearly says that ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of G-d. It also says no sin is greater then another, and it says that all those that seek Christ will find him. It doesnt say, those who seek the bible or seek the Christians, it says those that seek Christ. You don't know what he meant, all we know is that Faith is more important then the rules, Those that live by the law, live by a curse, for the only reward that the Law can give is death.


Well I do know that proud homosexuals do not get salvation. Yes you can seek Jesus all you want, but if you do not stop sinning, what would be the point? Faith is just as important as the rules. Make a golden idol and worship it. When God judges us, ask him if that was not as important as faith.

Sorry to disappoint you but all of us are condemned to death because the wages of sin are death.

Well I do know that proud homosexuals do not get salvation. Yes you can seek Jesus all you want, but if you do not stop sinning, what would be the point? Faith is just as important as the rules. Make a golden idol and worship it. When God judges us, ask him if that was not as important as faith.

Sorry to disappoint you but all of us are condemned to death because the wages of sin are death.


For who so ever believes in me shall not perish but have every lasting life

so no, not all of us are condemned to death. We are condemed to only the death of the flesh, and those that are Christs are not judged by G-d. Read your bible man.

Doesn't teach the truth?

I do believe Jesus said that it was never the law that saved people, but it was always through Faith. He talked about Abraham and Moses when he said that too. Jesus also said, when questioned on what Commandments to follow replied with only two, Know G-d in with all your heart, mind and soul, and do onto others as you would have done to yourself. Jesus also said that the only the living had to live by the Law, and that all his followers were to be like him, dead to the world, so the laws no longer bound us. He said those that followed him would be lead by the Spirit, that had been on the earth since the beginning. It was what gave the Visions to the Prophets. It just wasn't granted out like it is today. The Holy spirit came to help people walk the path without Jesus being directly there.

All that I have said comes directly from the Bible, if you would like to prove me otherwise, quote it, and I'll be here to answer.

Which bible are you using? How are you translating the verses?

Does your "Church" use the greek translation.

Johnny, are you a Jehovah's Witness?

Which bible are you using? How are you translating the verses?


I use KJV, NKJV, NIV, JNTP, and what ever other version I can get, I then compare them to each other and see what the same concept is brought across. Though mainly the JNTP, since its a brand new verison based off an older written form of the bible then even the KJV. Its fresh, done by a Rabbi.


edit: about the Greek part, all the translations are based off the greek, but the OT are based off the Hebrew.

Why do our peaceful Muslim brothers like to cut off the heads of innocent people?

We don't. Out of 1.3 billion Muslims in the world, how many have you seen decapitate someone? How many decapitations have you heard about? Assuming you only actually hear about 10% of the brutal and baseless decapitations, what is the total number of Muslims who like to decapitate people?

Subtract that number from 1,300,000,000.

How many do you have left?

For who so ever believes in me shall not perish but have every lasting life

so no, not all of us are condemned to death. We are condemed to only the death of the flesh, and those that are Christs are not judged by G-d. Read your bible man.


Yes we all are condemned to death. Jesus will not save everyone, and He wanted it that way. Read your bible. Find the true church. Do you believe in heaven or hell right when you die? If you do, then you are wicked.

PS are you one of those so called "Born-Again" Christians?

I use KJV, NKJV, NIV, JNTP, and what ever other version I can get, I then compare them to each other and see what the same concept is brought across. Though mainly the JNTP, since its a brand new verison based off an older written form of the bible then even the KJV. Its fresh, done by a Rabbi.


edit: about the Greek part, all the translations are based off the greek, but the OT are based off the Hebrew.


Oh the JNTP, I see. Wow, you have been misled, haven't you.

Yes we all are condemned to death. Jesus will not save everyone, and He wanted it that way. Read your bible. Find the true church. Do you believe in heaven or hell right when you die? If you do, then you are wicked.

PS are you one of those so called "Born-Again" Christians?


Jesus will save all those that believe in him. Jew and Gentile alike. I believe in Heaven and Shol, not Hell since it wasn't even in the Bible until the Catholics put it there. I believe that we all go to the land of the dead, until the end happens, and then the saved will be brought up, the end times will happen, and then the saved will be brought up again, and then the heavens get destroyed along with the earth, and the new world and new heaven are made and our souls become physical oncemore and we live eternal with the New Heaven as the Capitol of the New Earth.

We don't. Out of 1.3 billion Muslims in the world, how many have you seen decapitate someone? How many decapitations have you heard about? Assuming you only actually hear about 10% of the brutal and baseless decapitations, what is the total number of Muslims who like to decapitate people?

Subtract that number from 1,300,000,000.

How many do you have left?


Why does Allah only understand prayers in Arabic?

Oh the JNTP, I see. Wow, you have been misled, haven't you.


and what is wrong with the JNTP? are you anti-semitic, or one of those people that feel there is nothing Jewish about Christianity?

Abraham

Pretty much all Jews, Christians, and Muslims agree that Abraham was the most beloved person God ever spoke to. God let this man argue with Him and question His motives and still made Abraham the father of billions.

Now ... Abraham wasn't Christian ... and he wasn't a Jew ...

Gosh. Complete submission to God, no intercessor between him and God, prayed often, didn't mind mixing meat and dairy, lived in a large community with many in his household who weren't his blood relations (but, rather, his spiritual brothers), held no other with God ...

What do you know ... Abraham was Muslim.

I believe that we all go to the land of the dead, until the end happens, and then the saved will be brought up, the end times will happen, and then the saved will be brought up again, and then the heavens get destroyed along with the earth, and the new world and new heaven are made and our souls become physical oncemore and we live eternal with the New Heaven as the Capitol of the New Earth.


I believe that you have no clue as to the what the bible says. Try smoking more opium, you devil.

Why does Allah only understand prayers in Arabic?

You didn't answer my question, but I will answer yours. Nowehere does Qur'an say all prayers must be in Arabic. Your question is baseless.

Pretty much all Jews, Christians, and Muslims agree that Abraham was the most beloved person God ever spoke to. God let this man argue with Him and question His motives and still made Abraham the father of billions.

Now ... Abraham wasn't Christian ... and he wasn't a Jew ...

Gosh. Complete submission to God, no intercessor between him and God, prayed often, didn't mind mixing meat and dairy, lived in a large community with many in his household who weren't his blood relations (but, rather, his spiritual brothers), held no other with God ...

What do you know ... Abraham was Muslim.

Abraham is the closest example that we have to what G-d wants from us. He is the father of both Jew and Muslim faith, as well as the continuence of Jewish Prophecy in Christian faith. So far people have different view points on what the "perfect" example is. I hope Johnny doesn't respond with too much prejudice when he sees you say Abraham was muslim. I think he is Catholic

I believe that you have no clue as to the what the bible says. Try smoking more opium, you devil.
Try reading the OT in Hebrew, it makes much more sense then the English way. I think I do know what the bible says. I don't smoke Opium, and I am anything but a devil. I asked you to show me how I am wrong with scripture, for even Jesus said this is the way to show right and wrong, bring it.

I hope Johnny doesn't respond with too much prejudice when he sees you say Abraham was muslim. I think he is Catholic
I asked Johnny if he was a Jehovah's Witness a page back, but my question appears to have gotten lost in the current debate. :rolleyes:

Abraham is the closest example that we have to what G-d wants from us. He is the father of both Jew and Muslim faith, as well as the continuence of Jewish Prophecy in Christian faith. So far people have different view points on what the "perfect" example is. I hope Johnny doesn't respond with too much prejudice when he sees you say Abraham was muslim. I think he is Catholic

Meh ... Johnny's ok. Civil questions call for civil answers.

and what is wrong with the JNTP? are you anti-semitic, or one of those people that feel there is nothing Jewish about Christianity?

Besides the fact that the Jews have fallen into total wickedness, and have foresaken Him, it is not an accurate translation of the tone of Jesus. When you say anti-semitic, do you mean anti-jew? Because there is a difference. For one thing the people who wrote the bible did not speak Hebrew. Remember that Jesus was not Jewish, he was of God.

Besides the fact that the Jews have fallen into total wickedness, and have foresaken Him, it is not an accurate translation of the tone of Jesus. When you say anti-semitic, do you mean anti-jew? Because there is a difference. For one thing the people who wrote the bible did not speak Hebrew. Remember that Jesus was not Jewish, he was of God.
Jesus was of both man and G-d.

And I beg your pardon, the Jews that wrote the New Testament did speak a Hebrew as well as Aramaic (sp?) and Greek. I think it was only Saul/Paul that wasn't Jewish by blood, but had been converted to being a Jew, and then was saved by the spirit of G-d who said, you follow me, but you kill my children.

Now if he was doing sin, how could he be following G-d?

Another point I might say is that the Jews are not "total wickedness" read your bible again man, 144,000 of them are sealed and they are to lead the new church after the followers of Christ are removed from the earth.

Abraham is the closest example that we have to what G-d wants from us. He is the father of both Jew and Muslim faith, as well as the continuence of Jewish Prophecy in Christian faith. So far people have different view points on what the "perfect" example is. I hope Johnny doesn't respond with too much prejudice when he sees you say Abraham was muslim. I think he is Catholic

I am no Catholic! Sorry but Abraham was not a Muslim. If you believe that then my friend, you are too brainwashed.

So...I'm a religion major and middle eastern studies minor...
Many fundamentalists and conservatives and any other type of crazy human centered person who claims to be "spiritual" as well as 100% of us like to think we are right ALLLLLL the time. (unless yer really self-loathing and think yer always wrong - but they have happy pills for that now) Some listen and learn and change. They call that tolerant but that isn't something that's really ummm liked at this time for some reason.
Stop classifying it by religion and understand that it is just a certain mindset that people can fall into if they don't learn to grow and listen to God through the things that occur in this world.
Stif-neckedness is never a good thing and all books warn against certain kinds of stubborness which cause humans to make judgements and not God in the end.
No one religious group is responsible for being the only one who thinks they are right all the time - there are always people who aren't like that in those groups. We need to check what we do that cause social effects like this and understand what we can do to make it better instead of making it worse.
Not just at governmental level, community level or neighborhood - person to person. We need to stop categorizing people and understand what is the problem of those whom have one and start communication.
Muhammad (PBUH) - 'Should one of you see evil activities, he should change them with his hand. If he cannot do that, he should change them with his tongue. And if he cannot do that, he should change them with his heart.'
Jesus taught to love your neighbor as yourself. What do you think that means.

Recipe for Thread Flambee:

Ingredients:
Half a brain
A sheltered middle class upbringing in a neophyte culture
Healthy Contempt for others
Desire for attention and approval


Create a title. This is much like making a crust, except you use the following easy form:
"How come (Insert demographic) always think (Insert Opinion)?"

Include veiled implication that (Inserted Opinion) is of course, a completely invalid idea, and that anyone forcefully asserting their beliefs is a singleminded zealot incapable of reason. Bake at 450 F on a multiracial/denominational/gendered forum ten seconds and let stand.

Jesus was of both man and G-d.

And I beg your pardon, the Jews that wrote the New Testament did speak a Hebrew as well as Aramaic (sp?) and Greek. I think it was only Saul/Paul that wasn't Jewish by blood, but had been converted to being a Jew, and then was saved by the spirit of G-d who said, you follow me, but you kill my children.

Now if he was doing sin, how could he be following G-d?

Another point I might say is that the Jews are not "total wickedness" read your bible again man, 144,000 of them are sealed and they are to lead the new church after the followers of Christ are removed from the earth.


Hahaha, 144,000 are sealed. You are truely lost. How can Jews who do not have grace, and didn't know Jesus, find salvation? How is it possible? You call yourself a Christian, but this goes against even the most wicked of "Christian" church teachings. The only way to heaven for those not in grace is through Jesus.


BTW-Are you a Christian? If so how can you say that Jesus is both God and man, He is perfect, without sin, if he was born of human flesh, he would have been sinful. Would he have forgiven himself?

I am no Catholic! Sorry but Abraham was not a Muslim. If you believe that then my friend, you are too brainwashed.

Did I say he was Muslim? no I didn't. I think there are many Muslims out there that don't like me for my posts about their idealology. Abraham was neither Muslim, Christian, or Jew. He was of G-d, descendent of Noah and Adam.

Sorry but Abraham was not a Muslim.

Why not?

Do you know what "Muslim" means? Do you know what Islam means?

If Abraham wasn't Muslim, then what was he? A Unitarian?

When you say anti-semitic, do you mean anti-jew? Because there is a difference.
Please, explain that difference. (This should be revealing.) :rolleyes:
For one thing the people who wrote the bible did not speak Hebrew.
The oldest manuscripts from which we took our translations of the Bible were in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic, and those are the languages spoken by the people at the times the scriptures would have been written. How can you say the writers of the Bible did not speak Hebrew?
Remember that Jesus was not Jewish, he was of God.
Jesus was a Jew who disagreed with some teachings of Judaism. What planet are you on?

Hahaha, 144,000 are sealed. You are truely lost. How can Jews who do not have grace, and didn't know Jesus, find salvation? How is it possible? You call yourself a Christian, but this goes against even the most wicked of "Christian" church teachings. The only way to heaven for those not in grace is through Jesus.


woah, did you just say the bible was wrong? Please, turn your bible, or what ever "book" you think is the bible and open to Revelations chapter 7 and read. I would really like to know what it says in your words, though you have yet to quote from the bible.

Recipe for Thread Flambee:


My favorite ingredient is "GWB R TEH SUX0RSSOR0RSSSS!!!111!!eleven1!!1one!"

Oh ... and a tastey concoction can be made with some marshmallows, cinnamon, and a sprinkle of "Kerry == Traitor!".

Did I say he was Muslim? no I didn't. I think there are many Muslims out there that don't like me for my posts about their idealology. Abraham was neither Muslim, Christian, or Jew. He was of G-d, descendent of Noah and Adam.


Wow, we agree that Abraham was of God. First time for everything. Sorry to misquote you, but alas it is nearly 2 in the morning, I'm dog tired. I must debate you soon. Yes I'll actually use bible passages and such. Telegram the wadd man.

well, since Johnny is taking his time, I'll give it a shot.


revelation chapter 7 verse 1 through 8

NIV
1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. 5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, 6from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, 7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, 8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.


NAS

1After this I saw (A)four angels standing at the (B)four corners of the earth, holding back (C)the four winds of the earth, (D)so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree.


2And I saw another angel ascending (E)from the rising of the sun, having the (F)seal of (G)the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the (H)four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea,


3saying, "(I)Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have (J)sealed the bond-servants of our God on their (K)foreheads."


The 144,000

4And I heard the (L)number of those who were sealed, (M)one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:


5from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,


6from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,


7from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,


8from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

KJV
1And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.


2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,


3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.


4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.


5Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.


6Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.


7Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.


8Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

woah, did you just say the bible was wrong? Please, turn your bible, or what ever "book" you think is the bible and open to Revelations chapter 7 and read. I would really like to know what it says in your words, though you have yet to quote from the bible.

Hmmm, in rev 7, they are not talking about Jews.

Remember we gentiles are also descendents of the tribes of Israel.

Hmmm, in rev 7, they are not talking about Jews.

Remember we gentiles are also descendents of the tribes of Israel.


So, after the Christians are taken up, then there are some left behind to take up the name Jew? Since a Jew is the Decendent of Moses and Abraham, and is divided up into the tribes based on family, not just I'm a jew because I follow the faith/lifestyle.

edit: jesh, the world gentile means, non-jew, from the word Goyum.

well, since Johnny is taking his time, I'll give it a shot.


revelation chapter 7 verse 1 through 8

NIV
1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. 5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, 6from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, 7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, 8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.


NAS

1After this I saw (A)four angels standing at the (B)four corners of the earth, holding back (C)the four winds of the earth, (D)so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree.


2And I saw another angel ascending (E)from the rising of the sun, having the (F)seal of (G)the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the (H)four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea,


3saying, "(I)Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have (J)sealed the bond-servants of our God on their (K)foreheads."


The 144,000

4And I heard the (L)number of those who were sealed, (M)one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:


5from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,


6from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,


7from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,


8from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

KJV
1And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.


2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,


3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.


4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.


5Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.


6Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.


7Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.


8Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Well since you gave me no time to answer, as I have other things to type in other posts. You said they were Jews, nope, sorry. Like I said I am out of here till tomorrow.

I thought this would be neat to post, I can't read what it says, but maybe others may.


1وَرَأَيْتُ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ أَرْبَعَةَ مَلاَئِكَةٍ وَاقِفِينَ عَلَى زَوَايَا الأَرْضِ الأَرْبَعِ، يَحْبِسُونَ رِيَاحَ الأَرْضِ الأَرْبَعَ، فَلاَ تَهُبُّ رِيحٌ عَلَى بَرٍّ أَوْ بَحْرٍ أَوْ شَجَرٍ.


2ثُمَّ رَأَيْتُ مَلاَكاً آخَرَ قَادِماً مِنَ الشَّرْقِ يَحْمِلُ خَتْمَ اللهِ الْحَيِّ، فَنَادَى بِصَوْتٍ عَالٍ الْمَلاَئِكَةَ الأَرْبَعَةَ الَّذِينَ عُهِدَ إِلَيْهِمْ أَنْ يُنْزِلُوا الضَّرَرَ بِالْبَرِّ وَالْبَحْرِ:


3«انْتَظِرُوا! لاَ تَضُرُّوا الْبَرَّ وَلاَ الْبَحْرَ وَلاَ الشَّجَرَ، إِلَى أَنْ نَضَعَ خَتْمَ إِلَهِنَا عَلَى جِبَاهِ عَبِيدِهِ».


4وَسَمِعْتُ أَنَّ عَدَدَ الْمَخْتُومِينَ، مِئَةُ وَأَرْبَعَةٌ وَأَرْبَعُونَ أَلْفاً، مِنْ جَمِيعِ أَسْبَاطِ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ:


5مِنْ سِبْطِ يَهُوذَا خُتِمَ اثْنَا عَشَرَ أَلْفاً؛ وَمِنْ سِبْطِ رَأُوبَيْنَ اثْنَا عَشَرَ أَلْفاً؛ وَمِنْ سِبْطِ جَادَ اثْنَا عَشَرَ أَلْفاً؛


6وَمِنْ سِبْطِ أَشِيرَ اثْنَا عَشَرَ أَلْفاً؛ وَمِنْ سِبْطِ نَفْتَالِي اثْنَا عَشَرَ أَلْفاً؛ وَمِنْ سِبْطِ مَنَسَّى اثْنَا عَشَرَ أَلْفاً


7وَمِنْ سِبْطِ شِمْعُونَ اثْنَا عَشَرَ أَلْفاً؛ وَمِنْ سِبْطِ لاَوِي اثْنَا عَشَرَ أَلْفاً؛ وَمِنْ سِبْطِ يَسَّاكَرَ اثْنَا عَشَرَ أَلْفاً؛


8وَمِنْ سِبْطِ زَبُولُونَ اثْنَا عَشَرَ أَلْفاً؛ وَمِنْ سِبْطِ يُوسُفَ اثْنَا عَشَرَ أَلْفاً؛ وَمِنْ سِبْطِ بَنْيَامِينَ خُتِمَ اثْنَا عَشَرَ أَلْفاً.

So, after the Christians are taken up, then there are some left behind to take up the name Jew? Since a Jew is the Decendent of Moses and Abraham, and is divided up into the tribes based on family, not just I'm a jew because I follow the faith/lifestyle.

edit: jesh, the world gentile means, non-jew, from the word Goyum.

If you take the literal translation of the word, the tribes populated the earth, thus many of them were gentile.

If you take the literal translation of the word, the tribes populated the earth, thus many of them were gentile.


still haven't told me what version of the bible you use, nor what "faith" though it seems you don't understand the old testament enough to understand the new, though I'm betting you think the old isn't needed.

Why not?

Do you know what "Muslim" means? Do you know what Islam means?

If Abraham wasn't Muslim, then what was he? A Unitarian?

He was a jewish guy, like Harry down at the deli.

Another silly thing about so called Christians are the "churches" that allow gays to preach, and women as well.
Kind of against everything Jesus spoke of.

I guess its easy for a well-read bible scholar like you to quote the according verses to that, right?
Johnny, what is you freaking problem? You diss others, contribute nothing more than "You are wrong stupid!" and dont give any answer. If you do know more, which is what you try to communicate, than share. Or shut the fuck up.

He was a jewish guy, like Harry down at the deli.

This really does show the lacking of understanding words.

Jewish means from the land of Juedah (sp?) and it was placed on the Hebrew, which were decendents of Abraham. So no, Abraham can not be a descendent of himself, unless its like in Red Dwarf where Lister is his own father.

He was a jewish guy, like Harry down at the deli.

Saying Abraham was Jew is like saying Jesus was a Christian or Gotama was a Buddhist.
You can say it, it'll make sense, but it's not technically true.

still haven't told me what version of the bible you use, nor what "faith" though it seems you don't understand the old testament enough to understand the new, though I'm betting you think the old isn't needed.

My faith does not have a title, it is True Christian. The OT lost much of it's authority when Jesus gave us a new covenant. Remember we weren't supposed to execute people without a trial anymore. But according to the law of Moses you still could. I use an actual first generation copy of the original Greek. So my source is a bit more relevent then the ones you stated.
Leave me in peace as I'm sleepy.

My faith does not have a title, it is True Christian. The OT lost much of it's authority when Jesus gave us a new covenant. Remember we weren't supposed to execute people without a trial anymore. But according to the law of Moses you still could. I use an actual first generation copy of the original Greek. So my source is a bit more relevent then the ones you stated.
Leave me in peace as I'm sleepy.

I use a first generation of the greek text written in english. Its from the oldest known copy of the bible, predateing the oldest one that was previous from that that the Catholics hold on to.

If you want to sleep, then go, no one stops you. Though you still haven't backed a single thing you've said with a single clip of scripture. Even the Founder of Christiandom used the OT to defend himself from the Adversary.

Saying Abraham was Jew is like saying Jesus was a Christian or Gotama was a Buddhist.
You can say it, it'll make sense, but it's not technically true.

Jesus was a Christian, look, he probably believed in himself, so he would follow himself, thus being a Christian. It's hard but it works out.

I'm not a scientist as I can't burn stuff in a test tube and figure it out.

I use an actual first generation copy of the original Greek. So my source is a bit more relevent then the ones you stated.


As a linguist by profession, i'm qualified to say all sorts of things that are wrong with this assertion, but you say you're tired, so i'll do no more than raise an eyebrow and snicker up my sleeve.

He was a jewish guy, like Harry down at the deli.

Not possible. Nobody was Jewish until God delivered Torah. That didn't happen until untold centuries after Abraham was long dead.

Jesus was a Christian, look, he probably believed in himself, so he would follow himself, thus being a Christian. It's hard but it works out.

I'm not a scientist as I can't burn stuff in a test tube and figure it out.
Jesus wasn't a follower of himself. he was the leader. He still followed the law, though he also brought enlightenment to its true meaning.

My faith does not have a title, it is True Christian. The OT lost much of it's authority when Jesus gave us a new covenant. Remember we weren't supposed to execute people without a trial anymore. But according to the law of Moses you still could. I use an actual first generation copy of the original Greek. So my source is a bit more relevent then the ones you stated.
Leave me in peace as I'm sleepy.
So are you going to admit you're a Jehovah's Witness already? Like it's anything to be ashamed of, sigh.

Get some sleep, d00d.

I use a first generation of the greek text written in english. Its from the oldest known copy of the bible, predateing the oldest one that was previous from that that the Catholics hold on to.

If you want to sleep, then go, no one stops you. Though you still haven't backed a single thing you've said with a single clip of scripture. Even the Founder of Christiandom used the OT to defend himself from the Adversary.

We use the same bible? Who exactly taught you how to read your bible? Hopefully not some church where you can become a minister overnight, or where gays can become ordained ministers?

So are you going to admit you're a Jehovah's Witness already? Like it's anything to be ashamed of, sigh.

Get some sleep, d00d.
he does sound a lot like the Jehovah's witnesses. Espically about the part that the Tribes of Israel means the gentile believers.

We use the same bible? Who exactly taught you how to read your bible? Hopefully not some church where you can become a minister overnight, or where gays can become ordained ministers?

Yeah, or ~shudder~ one of those churches who admits that the message of Jesus of Nazareth was "God says Love EVERYONE."

We use the same bible? Who exactly taught you how to read your bible? Hopefully not some church where you can become a minister overnight, or where gays can become ordained ministers?

Actually in my church fisherman can be ministers, murderers can be ministers, and we all get taught by this Carpenter. All the founders of my church were ordained overnight, and all drank wine too.

My faith does not have a title, it is True Christian. The OT lost much of it's authority when Jesus gave us a new covenant. Remember we weren't supposed to execute people without a trial anymore. But according to the law of Moses you still could. I use an actual first generation copy of the original Greek. So my source is a bit more relevent then the ones you stated.
Leave me in peace as I'm sleepy.

To be a "true Christian", you must follow what Jesus taught. To accept the epistles and revelations of the Apostles would not be what Jesus taught.

That would make you a Paulist or a Johnist or whatnot.

Remember that Jesus never ordained a non-Jew ... and he ordained Peter instantly and was, himself, ordained instantly. Overnight's a long time for ordination.

My source is God. How's that for relevence?

Because they're dumbasses.
i couldn't agree more. :)

Actually in my church fisherman can be ministers, murderers can be ministers, and we all get taught by this Carpenter. All the founders of my church were ordained overnight, and all drank wine too.

Hah. Sounds like a Judean cult to me. Hope there's no Roman Emperors around to think it's the new big thing, or the most widespread religion in the world might be one whose central message, deviants and zealots aside, is to love and accept anyone different from you unconditionally. Peace to you, Sir.

So are you going to admit you're a Jehovah's Witness already? Like it's anything to be ashamed of, sigh.

Get some sleep, d00d.

No I don't belong to the JW's. I love Christ and he is my future salvation.
I actually did belong to the WCG, but we splintered off into our on little sect. We found HWA's teachings way too lenient.

Hah. Sounds like a Judean cult to me. Hope there's no Roman Emperors around to think it's the new big thing, or the most widespread religion in the world might be one whose central message, deviants and zealots aside, is to love and accept anyone different from you unconditionally. Peace to you, Sir.


Sholam to you as well.

As a linguist by profession, i'm qualified to say all sorts of things that are wrong with this assertion, but you say you're tired, so i'll do no more than raise an eyebrow and snicker up my sleeve.

Give me a break, I'm a retard with a computer, just typing some nonsense here and there.

Give me a break, I'm a retard with a computer, just typing some nonsense here and there.

As a good Buddhist, i'll give you respect knuckles for being someone who can come out and say it. Just promise me you're not trying to convince anyone of anything.

As a good Buddhist, i'll give you respect knuckles for being someone who can come out and say it. Just promise me you're not trying to convince anyone of anything.

No it's late, I'm bored and just want to mess with some nuts. BTW I dropped little hints here and there. HWA for one should have been the biggest tip offs to my insanity. Also the WCG. In all actuallity I don't even own a bible, silly me. :confused:

It was funny though, Slinao trying to get me to quote verses and all of that.

No it's late, I'm bored and just want to mess with some nuts. BTW I dropped little hints here and there. HWA for one should have been the biggest tip offs to my insanity. Also the WCG. In all actuallity I don't even own a bible, silly me. :confused:

Please spare us the attention-mongering then. Buy yourself a webcam, i'm sure you're SOMEBODY's fetish.

BTW-Are you a Christian? If so how can you say that Jesus is both God and man, He is perfect, without sin, if he was born of human flesh, he would have been sinful. Would he have forgiven himself?

1 Corinthians 15:44-49
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"[e]; the last Adam, a lifegiving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[f] bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

Jesus is referred to as the Son of Man over eighty times in the New Testament.

His lineage is described in the first chapter of Matthew.

He experienced hunger (Matthew 4), pain and sorrow (Matthew 27), temptation (Matthew 4).

That Christ was both fully man and fully God was a notion also questioned by men of Jesus's time:
John 8:57
“You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

and yet it is true. God deigned himself to come down to earth, taking on flesh, human form, that he might live a sinless life in a sinful world and die an atoning death of sacrifice in order to offer us forgiveness.

Please spare us the attention-mongering then. Buy yourself a webcam, i'm sure you're SOMEBODY's fetish.

Attention-mongering?? Nice word! BTW sorry but if you people here take yourselves way to serious when it should be obvious that some nut is messing with you. It's your own fault.

BTW Why would a strong Christian use the handle (johnny wadd) of the king of porn, a man who died of aids and all that?

God deigned himself to come down to earth, taking on flesh, human form, that he might live a sinless life in a sinful world and die an atoning death of sacrifice in order to offer us forgiveness.

Seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to for someone who could have done it just because it was nice or because people asked for it, but i guess that's just my own religion talking.

1 Corinthians 15:44-49
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"[e]; the last Adam, a lifegiving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[f] bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

Jesus is referred to as the Son of Man over eighty times in the New Testament.

His lineage is described in the first chapter of Matthew.

He experienced hunger (Matthew 4), pain and sorrow (Matthew 27), temptation (Matthew 4).

That Christ was both fully man and fully God was a notion also questioned by men of Jesus's time:
John 8:57
“You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

and yet it is true. God deigned himself to come down to earth, taking on flesh, human form, that he might live a sinless life in a sinful world and die an atoning death of sacrifice in order to offer us forgiveness.

To slow there speedy, I am full of shit!

No it's late, I'm bored and just want to mess with some nuts. BTW I dropped little hints here and there. HWA for one should have been the biggest tip offs to my insanity. Also the WCG. In all actuallity I don't even own a bible, silly me. :confused:

It was funny though, Slinao trying to get me to quote verses and all of that.
Weren't you the same guy who made the big I-got-tortured thread asking about what everybody's worst pain was? Ehehehehe. Well done. :bumps knux:

Attention-mongering?? Nice word! BTW sorry but if you people here take yourselves way to serious when it should be obvious that some nut is messing with you. It's your own fault.

BTW Why would a strong Christian use the handle (johnny wadd) of the king of porn, a man who died of aids and all that?

Only thing i'm taking too seriously is your atrocious grammar and spelling, captain. Go back to the little kids table now, you've been entertaining.

Heres a question:

Now, i've never been anti-chrisitan or anything like that (i was rased by a catholic family, and still technically am one), but why do christians always think they are right and shove it in other people's faces. I mean, Christians think that they are right no matter what, and if someone thinks different they must be hung from the highest tree. Didn't Jesus say "Treat others as you would want to be treated"? I mean, if anything, it should be the Hindu's who are bragging! Their Religion is the oldest major one on Earth, thousands of years older than judaism yet it's got more than 800 million followers! But they won't brag. Why? Because religions of Indic origin such as Hinduism, Sikhism and Buddhism believe that "all religions are true and are only different paths to the same truth".

So why do the majority of christians have to be so friggen MEAN? Example:

Muslim: Jesus was the Messiah sent by god to fortell the coming of Muhammed. However, he is not the son of god, but he DOES sit at the hand of god and shall slay the Muslim version of the anti-christ.

Christian: What? Thats not what the bible says! How about you follow the bible instead of that funny book of yours?

Muslim: No thank you. You follow your bible, and I shall follow my Qu'ran, mmmmkay?

Chrisitan: I don't think so, Mister! DIE!

1) I have never met a Christian like this so I don't know what circles you move in

2) The idea that Christian evangilisim and the faith that Christians (and members of any religion) have is "Braging" that they are supiroer is nothing more than a postmodern seal of disaproval. Anything that doesnt say "Everyone is right" in a happy, smiley way is seen as the vilest form of arrogence.

To slow there speedy, I am full of shit!
I've known you were full of sh-t from the start, and I must admit, I did try hard to get you to open up and speak of what faith you really did follow, mainly because you lacked the conherentness of a denomination. I challeng people that I feel have things wrong, its in my nature. I've gotten in lots of debates with people, and through it all, I've never regretted a moment of it.

1) I have never met a Christian like this so I don't know what circles you move in


He's been hangin' out with those 9th century Roman Catholic flagellists again.

To slow there speedy, I am full of shit!


As you say you are. I just thought I'd clarify what real Christians believe. =]

...is seen as the vilest form of arrogence.

i don't know... most forms of arrogance i've seen are pretty vile. i'm not sure if subjective faith actually qualifies as the vilest...

Oh and where were the Nazis Christian?

hitler used the crusifing of jesus to justify his genocide of the jews but still that was just policicions being arseholes again.

AND
Christians may think they are right all the time you know i agree with some other guy that posted who said that all faiths do. That is because they want there faith to be the largest. In the eyes of a preist your going to hell if you bow down to idols e.g. hindus or if you practice black arts and i think that is voodoos. My point is that these people may want to save your souls and send you to heaven. That is what the Christians do. Now days seeing we ae not in the medieval times most people respet each others beleifs, we dont have inquisitors who go out and burn you for heresy now do we.

I am a christian, i go to church but i do not go out and hurt people for their religion and now if you do it is called a hate crime and you get sent to jail
i rest my case.

hitler used the crusifing of jesus to justify his genocide of the jews but still that was just policicions being arseholes again.
...Semi coherent run-on and breathless rant without premise...
i rest my case.

To quote the immortal words of Tarantino: "English, motherfucker! Do you speak it?!"

Weren't you the same guy who made the big I-got-tortured thread asking about what everybody's worst pain was? Ehehehehe. Well done. :bumps knux:


Yes the disgruntled vet is another character in my brain. Borrowed from Missing in Action Part II.

Dear Lord, militant atheist hypocracy the likes and scale of which I have never seen before! ;)

Ok that was slightly over the top, but I will say that since there is absoloutly no way of proving or disproving God, all religions AND AHTEISTS could be said to be guilty of trying to force their beliefs down other peoples throats. To single out Christians is highly unfair when there are just as many atheists who are so sure they are right that they get pleasure out of mocking other peoples beliefs, more Muslims (debatably) who think that their Holy book should be followed by all at pain of death etc etc.

Also, and since I dont know 'Tout le mond' (as in the person with that screename) I wont say this applies to him. But many of the people who say such things as "So why do the majority of christians have to be so friggen MEAN?" would think it totally racist and unnacceptable to say that about any other faith. So dont.

"Because religions of Indic origin such as Hinduism, Sikhism and Buddhism" - Wrong. Do you know why Pakistan is a seperate state to India? Because the Hindus and the Muslims couldnt agree on whos Holy Book was right and Muslims suffered wide spread persecution when they were in India.

To sum it up, I think that people should be allowed to express their opinions and beliefs without it being called arrogance, but they should learn to moderate their language so as not to be offensive. O yeah, and anybody who cant see the contradiction in the term 'Holy Killing' should be shot.

Only thing i'm taking too seriously is your atrocious grammar and spelling, captain. Go back to the little kids table now, you've been entertaining.

Go back to California you red, diaper, doper, baby. Hey quiz-kid, shouldn't i'm be capitalized?? Go back to your fruity California place you sausage tit.

I've known you were full of sh-t from the start, and I must admit, I did try hard to get you to open up and speak of what faith you really did follow, mainly because you lacked the conherentness of a denomination. I challeng people that I feel have things wrong, its in my nature. I've gotten in lots of debates with people, and through it all, I've never regretted a moment of it.

I don't follow anything, but your interp. is completely whacked.

Go back to California you red, diaper, doper, baby. Hey quiz-kid, shouldn't i'm be capitalized?? Go back to your fruity California place you sausage tit.

where is the love?

I have always been amused by watching toddlers fight.

Christians-Your incensed rantings have only damaged the image of Christ.

Those of faith-Shouldn't you be expected to believe your faith is true?

To all-Everyone that has posted is convinced of their "rightness"(self included) -even Mr. Wadd and the gentleman that started the thread.

With very few exceptions, most of these posts have only served to confuse the issue further and generate ill feelings. To what purpose? Faith in God should not lead to hurling darts at others, no matter their beliefs or lack thereof.

(Ignoring everything in-between and just responding to the topic question)

They feel that way for the same reason that everyone feels that way...

After all, why have a belief if you don't "know" that it is the right one? The very moment you call it your "belief" you are assuring the fact that you think it is 100% correct... Otherwise, you wouldn't have it as a belief...

The same applies to even opinions... If you don't hold your opinions to be truths, then there's no point in having them...

So it's very understandable that Christians (and Muslims, and Jews, and Atheists, and Buddhists, etc, etc) all consider themselves to be correct... And by extrapolation, that means that everyone else must be wrong...

So there's no big mystery about it... And no way to say that it is only one group that does it... By definition, anyone with a belief must act or think this way about it... (regardless of how "open minded" you call yourself, you still think that your beliefs are correct, and opposing views are wrong, right? you can be tolerant of other views, but they're still wrong, now aren't they?)

Christians are no different to any other religion, and if you believe they are then you need to spend a few years looking at the way religion influences the world community. Sure they like to force their religion in people's faces, but then so do Muslims and so do Jews and Hindus where the larger part of the community is made up of those religions. Where you get a large group with similar beliefs you get a stoic body of believers - simple as that.

But what you have to remember is that like political alliances, religious alliances can be liberal, moderate and extremist. One of my best friends is a Muslim. He doesn't tend to chop people's heads off or blow himself to bits because he believes that life is worth so much more than pain and death; that Allah put him on this Earth to serve Him by leading a humble and honest life dedicated to his Family. This is the central belief of most African Muslims too. And I'll tell you this: for every lunatic Arabic Muslim intent on a fiery death against the Great Satan there's 100 African Muslims just living their lives as they have for centuries - in contented rural third world averageness.

The same goes for Christians. Most Christians don't even mention the fact that they're Christians; even the staunch ones. The only time I can think of them being in-your-face is when the bloody Jehovah's Witnesses come around for a bit of an argumet about how much blood I shouldn't donate. Idiots.

If religion makes you happy then that's cool by me. If it really bothers you then you have way too much time on your hands.

There are people of all beliefs that try to ram it down your throat. Sometimes it seems like it's always Christains doing it because they are the majority and largely in control of much of the country. I have christain friends and we simply agree to disagree.

I think most christians know anything about there religion, but they think they do...thats why they go off braging. the impression people get of this religion is that they are all mighty because the american and british army are christians.
Eg.

Britain and america go to Iraq to KILL people. isnt one of the commandments in the bible YE SHALL NOT KILL?

I like to get people to open up and tell me what they believe, so sometimes I come off as me telling other people I'm right so there, simply because it causes emotion to drive the person into talking more then what they normally would talk about. How do I know I'm right unless I challenge everything that is said to me?

I think most christians know anything about there religion, but they think they do...thats why they go off braging. the impression people get of this religion is that they are all mighty because the american and british army are christians.
Eg.

Britain and america go to Iraq to KILL people. isnt one of the commandments in the bible YE SHALL NOT KILL?
actually its though shall not murder. Killing without cause, now in war there is both murder and killing. I am neither supporting the war in iraq or protesting it, just giveing my meaning of the commandment there

I wonder why Iraq is even around, why not just dissolve it and let the people set up the government(s) how they choose. The only reason Iraq is set up how it is now is because of the league of nations.

(Ignoring everything in-between and just responding to the topic question)

They feel that way for the same reason that everyone feels that way...

After all, why have a belief if you don't "know" that it is the right one? The very moment you call it your "belief" you are assuring the fact that you think it is 100% correct... Otherwise, you wouldn't have it as a belief...

The same applies to even opinions... If you don't hold your opinions to be truths, then there's no point in having them...

So it's very understandable that Christians (and Muslims, and Jews, and Atheists, and Buddhists, etc, etc) all consider themselves to be correct... And by extrapolation, that means that everyone else must be wrong...

So there's no big mystery about it... And no way to say that it is only one group that does it... By definition, anyone with a belief must act or think this way about it... (regardless of how "open minded" you call yourself, you still think that your beliefs are correct, and opposing views are wrong, right? you can be tolerant of other views, but they're still wrong, now aren't they?)
When I was a teenager I whined 'You always think you're right.' to my stepmother. Her intelligent reply was 'Of course. If I thought I was wrong I would have changed my mind.'

Yeah, you're right I guess.

But the Active-christians are ALOT more extreme than the atheists (last i checked, the KKK was Christian. I think.) Unless you count communists as atheists... If you have a problem with extremist Christians, move out of America. We're much nicer in Europe.

The KKK hates Jews and probably Arabs. Given that Jesus was a Jew and from the Middle East, they are the worst hypocrites.

you're all idiots :sniper:

gave me a good read though...

my thoughts: christians just built themselves a fail-safe in religion to be cool. they can worship jesus and not be worshipping a false idol (assuming they are wrong, this is just a what-if) because they have the pretense of jesus being god and whatnot (trinity) so its just like worshipping god.. but different... but the same

damn trendy christians.

dont reply, it's 5:44 am and i thought i would humor myself and this thread.

as for actually pertaining to the thread....
maybe there are just a bunch of insecure christians in the world who are out to be right so they dont feel bad or ponder the implications of being wrong.

if you want to be religious, go for it. be true to god and find the same truth on your own path.

it's all about security and satisfaction in the long run anyway

Time for Satantic point of view: For the first 18 years of my life, all religions were shoved down my throat. (70% of the brainwashing came from my christians peachers at chruch). But they failed and now I'm everyone's worst fear. I'm a Satanist and couldn't be happier.

"Most humans, despite their religious convictions, don't want to harm others intentionally. We're not so different anyway." Wrong! We want everyone to die and prove to people they haved been lied too all thier life.

I recommend this religion for anyone who wants to drive down the other road in life, known as "Highway to Hell".

Time for Satantic point of view: For the first 18 years of my life, all religions were shoved down my throat. (70% of the brainwashing came from my christians peachers at chruch). But they failed and now I'm everyone's worst fear. I'm a Satanist and couldn't be happier.

"Most humans, despite their religious convictions, don't want to harm others intentionally. We're not so different anyway." Wrong! We want everyone to die and prove to people they haved been lied too all thier life.

I recommend this religion for anyone who wants to drive down the other road in life, known as "Highway to Hell". I'm going to throw salt on you and then smite you and send you back to your master, the Dragon God.

Ok I'm christian. Let me see if I can help clarify:

Heres a question:
Now, i've never been anti-chrisitan or anything like that (i was rased by a catholic family, and still technically am one), but why do christians always think they are right and shove it in other people's faces.

Well those 'Christians' are immature in their faith. If they knew their father or religion that well, they'd know that you are a child of God and treat you with utmost respect. They have no right to make you feel threatened or worthless. Christians aren't meant to be full of pride but be a humble servant to all on earth. It is a Christians job however to build people up and to treat everyone equally.


I mean, Christians think that they are right no matter what, and if someone thinks different they must be hung from the highest tree. Didn't Jesus say "Treat others as you would want to be treated"?
Jesus sure did say that. He gave two commandments to fulfill the chritian law. They are the 2 most important things for Christians to follow.
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.' and
'Love your neighbour. Treat them the way you'd like to be treated.'


I mean, if anything, it should be the Hindu's who are bragging! Their Religion is the oldest major one on Earth, thousands of years older than judaism yet it's got more than 800 million followers! But they won't brag. Why? Because religions of Indic origin such as Hinduism, Sikhism and Buddhism believe that "all religions are true and are only different paths to the same truth".
They probably look at Christians and think, 'Woah! Lets not be like them'.


So why do the majority of christians have to be so friggen MEAN?
I read your example. Do you mean them being disrespectful through their elitism or ignorance?

This ignorance or elitism is something that is really unhealthy in the Christian Church that needs to be addressed. We have no right to judge you for who or what you are. We have no right to put you down if you are right or wrong. We have no right to take action against your identity or morals.

From what I'm hearing over in America, LOVE has left the building (hearts).

By the way, in the scipture, you can't be a Christian if you hate someone. "For if you say you are Christian to God and to people, yet hate your brother, you don't know your father that well."

Sorry if people think I'm bible bashing. I'm only giving you scripture so you can shove back into the face of these extreme Christians. If they are ignorant of Gods message- by refusing to listen to even you- than you can assume if these 'Christians' really are Christians.

I'm going to throw salt on you and then smite you and send you back to your master, the Dragon God.
why is it always salt? whats wrong with bacon,

I'm going to throw bacon on you and smite you and send you back to your master, the Dragon God. I mean, that sounds good too.

why is it always salt? whats wrong with bacon,

I'm going to throw bacon on you and smite you and send you back to your master, the Dragon God. I mean, that sounds good too. I think you're supposed to salt evil things. Books of Neck Romance, that sort of thing.

Do Black Masses really go on a lot? I mean, when I'm older and larger, I may well hunt them down with a flamer. I want to become an inquisitor, you see. And I like bacon.

Ok I'm christian. Let me see if I can help clarify:



Well those 'Christians' are immature in their faith. If they knew their father or religion that well, they'd know that you are a child of God and treat you with utmost respect. They have no right to make you feel threatened or worthless. Christians aren't meant to be full of pride but be a humble servant to all on earth. It is a Christians job however to build people up and to treat everyone equally.



Jesus sure did say that. He gave two commandments to fulfill the chritian law. They are the 2 most important things for Christians to follow.
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.' and
'Love your neighbour. Treat them the way you'd like to be treated.'



They probably look at Christians and think, 'Woah! Lets not be like them'.



I read your example. Do you mean them being disrespectful through their elitism or ignorance?

This ignorance or elitism is something that is really unhealthy in the Christian Church that needs to be addressed. We have no right to judge you for who or what you are. We have no right to put you down if you are right or wrong. We have no right to take action against your identity or morals.

From what I'm hearing over in America, LOVE has left the building (hearts).

By the way, in the scipture, you can't be a Christian if you hate someone. "For if you say you are Christian to God and to people, yet hate your brother, you don't know your father that well."

Sorry if people think I'm bible bashing. I'm only giving you scripture so you can shove back into the face of these extreme Christians. If they are ignorant of Gods message- by refusing to listen to even you- than you can assume if these 'Christians' really are Christians. Hear, hear!

I've been saying this all the time.

I think you're supposed to salt evil things. Books of Neck Romance, that sort of thing.

Do Black Masses really go on a lot? I mean, when I'm older and larger, I may well hunt them down with a flamer. I want to become an inquisitor, you see. And I like bacon.
I like bacon too, and I think I'm a good person, so wouldn't it make sense to banish evil with good? I mean, salt isn't something that most people like, unless they are evil.

About the Black Masses, talk to Ozzy, he seems to be in the know.

I like bacon too, and I think I'm a good person, so wouldn't it make sense to banish evil with good? I mean, salt isn't something that most people like, unless they are evil.

About the Black Masses, talk to Ozzy, he seems to be in the know. No, that's Black Sabbath, apparently a stupid '50s film.

"For you are the salt of the earth" - book something, chapter something, verse something. Salt is good for the ground, and since it was rare, Roman Legionaries would be paid in salt. Sod it, let's just use a flamethrower.

Don't confuse noice level with speaking for the majority. Those who shout and fuss rarely represent the majority point of view. Kinda like talk radio and TV, the ones who interupt and shout at each other never have anything intelligent to contribute.

No, that's Black Sabbath, apparently a stupid '50s film.

"For you are the salt of the earth" - book something, chapter something, verse something. Salt is good for the ground, and since it was rare, Roman Legionaries would be paid in salt. Sod it, let's just use a flamethrower.
black sabbath yes, but in the song, War Pigs "witches at black masses" is one of the lyrics. and come one Black Sabbath, Sabbath being a holy day, mass done on holy day... black mass, hmm, could be, or it could be a conspiricy theory

black sabbath yes, but in the song, War Pigs "witches at black masses" is one of the lyrics. and come one Black Sabbath, Sabbath being a holy day, mass done on holy day... black mass, hmm, could be, or it could be a conspiricy theory So? Have you ever read the lyrics of Dimmu Borgir? Or translated some of the really "odd" Rammstein lyrics? Dimmu Borgir, example:

"The witchborn queen, leader of dæmonic whores
Profane mistress, captor of sin
Sworn to feed the ill and the weak
And bring their women and men into temptation."

Anyway…

damn trendy christians.
dont reply, it's 5:44 am and i thought i would humor myself and this thread.

I'm not expecting you to read to what I am about write but... Christians try to look 'trendy' to attract the world to be saved. Personally I think it is a dangerous step for the church to take.


maybe there are just a bunch of insecure christians in the world who are out to be right so they dont feel bad or ponder the implications of being wrong.
I believe what you say here to be true. I am Christian and it is hard to feel secure in Gods hands 100% of the time. I see too many Christians fall under the manipulation of fear. If Christians fear, they should only fear God, not earthly dilemma's.



It's all about security and satisfaction in the long run anyway
For Christianity, no its not. To be a Christian you need to serve the world and offer hope and salvation to people. You need to walk in the steps of Jesus and suffer out of love for strangers (friends). The only sercurity and satisfaction you get out of it, is that you are going to heaven with the ones you love after death. Their should be no earthly satisfaction or security for Christians. If a Christian is comfortable sitting on their arse for 100 yrs until they die, do you think they'll be rewarded, eternity? I think everyone knows the answer to that.

So? Have you ever read the lyrics of Dimmu Borgir? Or translated some of the really "odd" Rammstein lyrics? Dimmu Borgir, example:

"The witchborn queen, leader of dæmonic whores
Profane mistress, captor of sin
Sworn to feed the ill and the weak
And bring their women and men into temptation."

Anyway…

but no mention of BLACK MASSES like you asked jeesh, u get way too deep in these things.

Hear, hear!

I've been saying this all the time.

Oops! FOr some reason I didn't read 9 PAGES of opinion. I've had guests all day and wanted to reply ASAP.

Sorry Liskeinland!

but no mention of BLACK MASSES like you asked jeesh, u get way too deep in these things.Way too deep… are you saying that I am in danger of becoming a devil worshipper?

Besides, witches do go to black masses. It's part of their religious culture :rolleyes: .

Way too deep… are you saying that I am in danger of becoming a devil worshipper?

Besides, witches do go to black masses. It's part of their religious culture :rolleyes: .
though they don't always call them that, it depends on the covent...did you know the Druids started the first Christian churches in Europe?

For Christianity, no its not. To be a Christian you need to serve the world and offer hope and salvation to people. You need to walk in the steps of Jesus and suffer out of love for strangers (friends). The only sercurity and satisfaction you get out of it, is that you are going to heaven with the ones you love after death. Their should be no earthly satisfaction or security for Christians. If a Christian is comfortable sitting on their arse for 100 yrs until they die, do you think they'll be rewarded, eternity? I think everyone knows the answer to that. But Christians should be happy in the light, yes? Satisfaction and security will still be gained from God's service. And it'll be more profound than earthly satisfaction and security… there's no such thing as real earthly security anyway - since there is always the knowledge of approaching death.

BTW: I hadn't posted your opinions throughout this thread - but I've been saying that throughout the whole forum. Was what I meant.

though they don't always call them that, it depends on the covent...did you know the Druids started the first Christian churches in Europe?I knew that the Celtic churches were among the oldest.

You have it wrong:

Witches have covens.
Nuns have convents.

DON'T confuse the two.

But Christians should be happy in the light, yes? Satisfaction and security will still be gained from God's service. And it'll be more profound than earthly satisfaction and security… there's no such thing as real earthly security anyway - since there is always the knowledge of approaching death.


Christians need to be secure in their relationship with God. You're right. Good point sorry. But if Christians don't feel secure, they should still struggle to do Gods will and bring peace to the world through servantship. God will give strength to those that do push on. It can be means of him testing our relationship with him.

Anyways, I couldn't have worded what you said better.

I knew that the Celtic churches were among the oldest.

You have it wrong:

Witches have covens.
Nuns have convents.

DON'T confuse the two.

Convent
n.

1. A community, especially of nuns, bound by vows to a religious life under a superior.
2. The building or buildings occupied by such a community.

Coven
n.

An assembly of 13 witches.

Convent can work for either one.

Convent
n.

1. A community, especially of nuns, bound by vows to a religious life under a superior.
2. The building or buildings occupied by such a community.

Coven
n.

An assembly of 13 witches.

Convent can work for either one.

Who came up with the word Satan anyway? It's a stupid word. Arkhéoth sounds so much better (it's mine, so don't steal it).

Who came up with the word Satan anyway? It's a stupid word. Arkhéoth sounds so much better (it's mine, so don't steal it).


Satan is the Hebrew word meaning, The Adversary, or the one who challenges.

Basically he sat there and everytime G-d said something he countered it.

Who came up with the word Satan anyway? It's a stupid word. Arkhéoth sounds so much better (it's mine, so don't steal it).
It's from the Hebrew (shaitan). Means demon, devil, nasty little guy who does mean things. Blame the Hebrews! ;)

And I like yours better too.

Edit: Bugger. Slinao is right. Damn Alzheimers...

Satan is the Hebrew word meaning, The Adversary, or the one who challenges.

Basically he sat there and everytime G-d said something he countered it. Wow. He treated God like my little brother does me.

Okay, what's Lucifer?

Wow. He treated God like my little brother does me.

Okay, what's Lucifer?

Lucifer is a latin name meaing, Bringer of the Light, or something like that.

it comes from the book of Danial when he is speaking about the fallen king of Babylon that is called of bright morning star, bringer of the light, how you hath fallen.

Many people relate it to the fall of Satan, as both challenged G-d and were cast down for their actions. Others feel it is a connection to the anti-christ because Danial speeks of the fallen king returning in the end of times.

Lucifer is a latin name meaing, Bringer of the Light, or something like that.

it comes from the book of Danial when he is speaking about the fallen king of Babylon that is called of bright morning star, bringer of the light, how you hath fallen.

Many people relate it to the fall of Satan, as both challenged G-d and were cast down for their actions. Others feel it is a connection to the anti-christ because Danial speeks of the fallen king returning in the end of times. Ah, so that's the significance… in a Dimmu Borgir song, there is this line: I am a bringer of evil/and therefore also a carrier of light" now it is explained.

Are Lucifer and Satan separate? There is this argument going on between me and an atheistic friend whether they are. I thought that there was only one leader of the fallen angels, and that Satan was a name given later by the Christians.

Wow. He treated God like my little brother does me.

Okay, what's Lucifer?
I'm rusty, but Slinao was on the right track. I recall Lucifer being one of the names given to the angel (adversary, shaitan) that G-d gave the boot. Meh, here (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_sat2.htm#bce) is one explanation of the history of the concept of Satan.

Ah, so that's the significance… in a Dimmu Borgir song, there is this line: I am a bringer of evil/and therefore also a carrier of light" now it is explained.

Are Lucifer and Satan separate? There is this argument going on between me and an atheistic friend whether they are. I thought that there was only one leader of the fallen angels, and that Satan was a name given later by the Christians.
I personally feel that Lucifer is a human, perhaps of angelic offspring, and Satan is the fallen angel that takes a third of the angels with him. The battle being shown in Revelations, and simalar in Danial I believe, could be wrong its like 7am, and I haven't been to bed yet, lol.

Satan by far is the older word, being from the Hebrews, so I would say he is the main man, though in Hebrew mythology he was G-ds reflection and when he saw how impure man was he could not bring himself to submit to them as G-d had instructed, and so became G-ds challenger instead, always seeking to find fault in G-ds plan.

There are 3 aspects of Satan though, and I think its reflective of the Trinity. There are 3 beasts mentioned in Revelations, One is the Beast, another is the Anti-christ and another is one that submits to the others. So in that aspect, there could be more leaders.

To the The Lightning Star:

You are right that Christians sometimes show intolerance towards other religions. HOWEVER how about the muslims WHO ARE SO INTOLERANT OF OTHER RELIGIONS THAT CONTACT A HOLLY WAR AGAINST EVERYBODY OUTSIDE THEIR FAITH AND CULTURE.

Note: MUSLIMS believe that Jesus was a Prophet NOT a messiah.

To the The Lightning Star:

You are right that Christians sometimes show intolerance towards other religions. HOWEVER how about the muslims WHO ARE SO INTOLERANT OF OTHER RELIGIONS THAT CONTACT A HOLLY WAR AGAINST EVERYBODY OUTSIDE THEIR FAITH AND CULTURE.

Note: MUSLIMS believe that Jesus was a Prophet NOT a messiah.

did you know that the bible says there will be those that come that will claim the angels tell them that Jesus isn't the Son of G-d. The bible calls them anti-christs. Just kinda something I ran across.

All religions think they are right. It's not left to only one of them. For example, Christians got over there "behead people who think differently than us" problem a thousand years ago.
Now they just blow each other up in Ireland :rolleyes:

To the The Lightning Star:

You are right that Christians sometimes show intolerance towards other religions. HOWEVER how about the muslims WHO ARE SO INTOLERANT OF OTHER RELIGIONS THAT CONTACT A HOLLY WAR AGAINST EVERYBODY OUTSIDE THEIR FAITH AND CULTURE.

Note: MUSLIMS believe that Jesus was a Prophet NOT a messiah.
:headbang:

All religions think they are right.

I'd go further. Every person in the world thinks they're right and everyone who disagrees is wrong. I mean, don't you?

As for Lucifer. This is another name for Satan.It is believed that he was one of the leading angels in paradise that turned again God (a kind of coup) but was crushed by the gods angelic forces ( Archiangel Michael crushed him and expelled him from paradise).
It is believed that he was thrown from heaven inverted ( that is with the head down). And that is why 666 is the number of Devil ( an inverted 9).

As for Lucifer. This is another name for Satan.It is believed that he was one of the leading angels in paradise that turned again God (a kind of coup) but was crushed by the gods angelic forces ( Archiangel Michael crushed him and expelled him from paradise).
It is believed that he was thrown from heaven inverted ( that is with the head down). And that is why 666 is the number of Devil ( an inverted 9).


umm, 666 is the number of Man and the mark of the beast. Its the most imperfect number because 7 is the perfect number, and 666 falls short of divine perfection in every way.

:headbang:

Pussitania: If you disagree with something just say it and stop these bullshit.

1)Why is 7 the perfect number?
2) How do you explain the fact that 999 is the symbol of good ( and god)

its because we know we are right. in our eyes not believing in christianity is like believing the world is flat - a totally stupid position. therfore we may act like the bible is the only book to follow because we think it is though we won't shove it in your face or start large arguments because of it unless provoked or asked to.

1)Why is 7 the perfect number?
2) How do you explain the fact that 999 is the symbol of good ( and god)

well, since 666 is based off biblical notion, then in the bible it says the reason behind the imperfection of it all. 7 is the divine number in the bible. G-d has a 7 fold spirit, creation was done in 7 days.

999 isn't the sybol of good in anything I've ever seen.
Though 9 is often the devils number through numurology, 6 + 6 + 6 = 18 1+8 = 9

because we can't take anyone bad-mouthing our messiah. I'll let you in on a little secret he's more jewish then anything else. shhh!

Maybe you are right. Although I don't remember reading such thing in Johns apocalypse.

Oh yeah, so many sexual assaults. A few more terrorist beheadings and bombings, me thinks.
No, we had quite a few more incidents of torture and sexual abuse at American hands (corporate and spy agency mostly, NOT our soldiers) than beheadings at Muslim ones.

And...why is this relevant? Are you 6, and still think 'But look what JOHNNY did!" is a defense?

BTW-Humiliation, come on, grow a spine. I've seen worse crap then a human naked pyramid at a girl scout campout.
You probably still attend girl scout campouts, doncha? They raped and murdered innocent people...by OUR ARMY'S OWN ESTIMATES, 80% of the people in Abu Ghraib were innocent.

How about this: Iraq invades the U.S. because they say we have UFOs at Roswell, then it turns out that we don't, but they lock up a few tens of thousands of people picked pretty much at random and rape a few, kill a few others.

If you had any balls at all, YOU would become a 'terrorist', fighting the invader with whatever you had.

the bible doesn't say that the earth is flat or whatever people accuse christianity of these days. Those ideas were born in MEDIEVAL times where the Church was trying to establish itself.

And don't forget:
Churches are made of people. Priests are people....And people make mistakes. Human judgement is not allways correct.

So when you want to attack or critisise someone, attack the church NOT christianity/god/jesus as a whole.

DO NOT CONFUSE THE CHURCH WITH CHRISTIAN FAITH.

SORRY I HAVEN'T READ THE (EX) QUOTE CAREFULLY, SO MY COMMENT IF BASED ON THE QUOTE IS IRRATIONAL. BUT NOT AS A GENERAL COMMENT.

the bible doesn't say that the earth is flat or whatever people accuse christianity of these days. Those ideas were born in MEDIEVAL times where the Church was trying to establish itself.

And don't forget:
Churches are made of people. Priests are people....And people make mistakes. Human judgement is not allways correct.

So when you want to attack or critisise someone, attack the church NOT christianity/god/jesus as a whole.

DO NOT CONFUSE THE CHURCH WITH CHRISTIAN FAITH.
you seem interested in christian things, mind if you check this out

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=386477

Heres a question:

Now, i've never been anti-chrisitan or anything like that (i was rased by a catholic family, and still technically am one), but why do christians always think they are right and shove it in other people's faces. I mean, Christians think that they are right no matter what, and if someone thinks different they must be hung from the highest tree.

Come on. We ALL think we are right. I mean who goes around touting opinions they think are wrong? Deep down everyone feels their opinions are correct, otherwise why would we have them? I have no problem with Christians, or Muslims, or Hindus, or any other group of religious people feeling certain they have found "the Way."

I also have no problem with people who share their insights about their religion, when asked. The real problem with Christianity is that many Christians feel compelled to share information when NOT asked. It is the proselytizing aspect of the religion that most people find offensive, not their deep felt faith or certainty of eternal reward.

Because, quite frankly speaking, we are right.
Second of all, a lot of Jewish people decide to deride us for the Messianic thing. You can't really blame the religion that fathered yours for not liking your ways, we only have an obligation to Judaism and we had better follow it. The Muslims have an obligation to Judaism and Christianity.

Why aren't we like Hindus? Because we're not Hindus. We don't believe that every religion is the same, we don't believe in their type of salvation.

Actually our faith requires of us to believe that we're right about this. I mean, what kind of a Christian are you if you say and think 'hmm .. yeah, Christ may have died on the cross. I'm not quite sure, folks. Really.' ?


Also: hurrah for politically correct outrage on the internet.

Slinao. judas is guilty only because he took away a life god created (he commited suicide)

Slinao. judas is guilty only because he took away a life god created (he commited suicide)
I responded to that comment in the other thread

edit: and I think you're wrong

couldn't resist saying he is right and the other is wrong ^_^

Pussitania: If you disagree with something just say it and stop these bullshit.
I disagree with your bullshit. Happy? :rolleyes:

Christians shouldn't think that everything they believe is right and everyone else is wrong. People can make mistakes.

However, we believe that everything God tells us is right, and everything else is wrong, and if that happens to bother you, take it up with God. Then you can get into the whole argument of how you know it's God who's telling you certain things, but that's a bit outside the scope of this thread.

The proselytizing aspect is mandated by God. If we knew a house was on fire, and didn't tell the people living in it and just hightailed it out ourselves, we would be guilty of killing those people. We know (because God told us) that people are going to hell, and we're trying to tell them to get out while they can.

I hope that clears up the ideas a bit. If you were really asking why they tend to have a "I'm right and you're wrong" attitude. We're not always right. But God is.

Ay Caramba!


This has grown to huge proportions!

Well, actually, i shoulda guessed. It DOES have the word Christian in it, so i guess that plays a key factor...

HOWEVER how about the muslims WHO ARE SO INTOLERANT OF OTHER RELIGIONS THAT CONTACT A HOLLY WAR AGAINST EVERYBODY OUTSIDE THEIR FAITH AND CULTURE.

First of all, "holly" is a plant or possibly a woman's name.

Second, there are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world. If we decided to wage ceaseless war on everyone non-Muslim or were commanded by Allah to wage ceaseless war on everyone non-Muslim, guess what? You'd probably be dead by now.

We're everywhere, bubba. Everywhere.

We are commanded to live in peace and act justly. See the quote from Qur'an in my sig as an example. The actions of a tiny few cannot condemn an entire people.

Now ...


did you know that the bible says there will be those that come that will claim the angels tell them that Jesus isn't the Son of G-d. The bible calls them anti-christs.

Out of 6.2 billion people on the planet, 4.2 billion don't believe Jesus was the son of God. Guess we anti-christs outnumber you. :p

Heres a question:

Now, i've never been anti-chrisitan or anything like that (i was rased by a catholic family, and still technically am one), but why do christians always think they are right and shove it in other people's faces. I mean, Christians think that they are right no matter what, and if someone thinks different they must be hung from the highest tree. Didn't Jesus say "Treat others as you would want to be treated"? I mean, if anything, it should be the Hindu's who are bragging! Their Religion is the oldest major one on Earth, thousands of years older than judaism yet it's got more than 800 million followers! But they won't brag. Why? Because religions of Indic origin such as Hinduism, Sikhism and Buddhism believe that "all religions are true and are only different paths to the same truth".

So why do the majority of christians have to be so friggen MEAN? Example:

Muslim: Jesus was the Messiah sent by god to fortell the coming of Muhammed. However, he is not the son of god, but he DOES sit at the hand of god and shall slay the Muslim version of the anti-christ.

Christian: What? Thats not what the bible says! How about you follow the bible instead of that funny book of yours?

Muslim: No thank you. You follow your bible, and I shall follow my Qu'ran, mmmmkay?

Chrisitan: I don't think so, Mister! DIE!
I'm not anti-Islam, but I seem to recall the radicals there murdering people in God's name. Hmm; so much more tolerant, eh?

Because Christians are right and everyone else is wrong. :D

(J/k ;))

Heres a question:

Now, i've never been anti-chrisitan or anything like that (i was rased by a catholic family, and still technically am one), but why do christians always think they are right and shove it in other people's faces. I mean, Christians think that they are right no matter what, and if someone thinks different they must be hung from the highest tree. Didn't Jesus say "Treat others as you would want to be treated"? I mean, if anything, it should be the Hindu's who are bragging! Their Religion is the oldest major one on Earth, thousands of years older than judaism yet it's got more than 800 million followers! But they won't brag. Why? Because religions of Indic origin such as Hinduism, Sikhism and Buddhism believe that "all religions are true and are only different paths to the same truth".

So why do the majority of christians have to be so friggen MEAN? Example:

Muslim: Jesus was the Messiah sent by god to fortell the coming of Muhammed. However, he is not the son of god, but he DOES sit at the hand of god and shall slay the Muslim version of the anti-christ.

Christian: What? Thats not what the bible says! How about you follow the bible instead of that funny book of yours?

Muslim: No thank you. You follow your bible, and I shall follow my Qu'ran, mmmmkay?

Chrisitan: I don't think so, Mister! DIE!
Quite interesting, meaning vicious, portrayal of Christians
You use too much exaggeration; not all Christians, in fact none that I know, are like that.

First of all, "holly" is a plant or possibly a woman's name.

Second, there are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world. If we decided to wage ceaseless war on everyone non-Muslim or were commanded by Allah to wage ceaseless war on everyone non-Muslim, guess what? You'd probably be dead by now.

We're everywhere, bubba. Everywhere.

We are commanded to live in peace and act justly. See the quote from Qur'an in my sig as an example. The actions of a tiny few cannot condemn an entire people.

Now ...




Out of 6.2 billion people on the planet, 4.2 billion don't believe Jesus was the son of God. Guess we anti-christs outnumber you. :p

but only 1.3 billion of them think that Jesus isn't the son of G-d based on something revealed by an angel.

Heres a question:

Now, i've never been anti-chrisitan or anything like that (i was rased by a catholic family, and still technically am one), but why do christians always think they are right and shove it in other people's faces. I mean, Christians think that they are right no matter what, and if someone thinks different they must be hung from the highest tree. Didn't Jesus say "Treat others as you would want to be treated"? I mean, if anything, it should be the Hindu's who are bragging! Their Religion is the oldest major one on Earth, thousands of years older than judaism yet it's got more than 800 million followers! But they won't brag. Why? Because religions of Indic origin such as Hinduism, Sikhism and Buddhism believe that "all religions are true and are only different paths to the same truth".

So why do the majority of christians have to be so friggen MEAN? Example:

Muslim: Jesus was the Messiah sent by god to fortell the coming of Muhammed. However, he is not the son of god, but he DOES sit at the hand of god and shall slay the Muslim version of the anti-christ.

Christian: What? Thats not what the bible says! How about you follow the bible instead of that funny book of yours?

Muslim: No thank you. You follow your bible, and I shall follow my Qu'ran, mmmmkay?

Chrisitan: I don't think so, Mister! DIE!

Or because Christians ARE right, and everyone else IS wrong. Maybe there is a right answer, and the Christians are the only ones who got the multiple choice correct. I know you want a little more tact, but tact can't trump righteousness.

I'm sorry if someone has already said this as I haven't read the whole thread but i think its because they have the opionion that what they say is justified/backed up by god so they are totally right and no one can argue about it.

What a vast generalization of millions of people. If evangelicals were the only christians, that may be true but there are plenty that don't think that way.

Generally speaking, I believe that you people who harbor this resentment have simply just met some obnoxious people who say they are Christians. I agree that each man is entitled to their own belief, so in essence, doesn't everyone believe that he is right and everyone else is wrong? Yes. Everyone, every religion has its own qualifier. If we look at this then, what is so wrong about Christians believing that they are right? Granted some try to shove it down your throat, but still, isn't that what the public schooling system is doing with humanism and the THEORY of evolution?