NationStates Jolt Archive

was thinking the other day about the whole speration thing going on in quebec.
for those of you who dont know quebec is a province in canada that has a federal party who's main goal is to seperate from the rest of canada and it has won ~45 out of 70 seats in quebec in the last federal election.

I was just wondering what you think your country would do if a state/province/teritory wanted to seperate, would it allow them to attemp to do it democraticly through referendum,crush them with force ect. im particularily intrested in what an americans think their goverment would do.
( doesent matter how unlikey it is)
In canada its been put to referendum twice both times narow victories for the federalists.

The pat

We (the US) already tried this, I think it's clear how we'd react.

The method of reaction would be different, but the substance would be the same.

Which is too bad, because even though the sound of "Emporer Schwartzenager(sp)" frightens me, I'd be pleased as punch if the Pacific states could seperate.

Well, I'm up here in Alaska, where we have the AIP, the Alaska Independance Party. They support seperating from the US. Although they are a minor third party, they held the governorship from '90 to '94. I really doubt that they'll succeed, however.

The whole USA/CSA thing would have work out better if not for Lincoln's illegal actions, which clearly violated both the US Constitution and international law. Unfortunatly, such a seperation wouldn't fly today. No one in their right mind even considers it anymore. There are a few loonies in Texas who have declared themselves the REpublic of Texas, claiming that the US anexation of Texas was illegal and it is still an independant country. They tend to be arrested for not paying their taxes and trying to tax their neighbors.

We (the US) already tried this, I think it's clear how we'd react.

The method of reaction would be different, but the substance would be the same.

Which is too bad, because even though the sound of "Emporer Schwartzenager(sp)" frightens me, I'd be pleased as punch if the Pacific states could seperate.I so would support it if we Californians gained independence. We're the fifth (maybe sixth by now) largest economy in the world. We have a major airport, and we're demographically different from the rest of the U.S.

1/3 Hispanic population, Colorado can't beat that!

And I wouldn't mind Arnold being President. He's gonna be President either way somehow, someway.

Now if only we can just figure out a way to get the government to have the L.A. street gangs to do what they want. We'd use them in the event of an invasion, we'd be unstoppable.

I mean...dude...1/3 Hispanic!

The whole USA/CSA thing would have work out better if not for Lincoln's illegal actions, which clearly violated both the US Constitution and international law. Unfortunatly, such a seperation wouldn't fly today. No one in their right mind even considers it anymore. There are a few loonies in Texas who have declared themselves the REpublic of Texas, claiming that the US anexation of Texas was illegal and it is still an independant country. They tend to be arrested for not paying their taxes and trying to tax their neighbors.
And the Texans seperating from Mexico was not illegal?
And the Mexicans seperating from Spain was not illegal?
And the Spainards taking the land from Native Americans was not illegal?

Wow. We Americans must be evil people then!

1 word

Czechoslovakia

Well, I'm up here in Alaska, where we have the AIP, the Alaska Independance Party. They support seperating from the US. Although they are a minor third party, they held the governorship from '90 to '94. I really doubt that they'll succeed, however.
I didn't know Alaska ever got that close...nice. Though with all that oil you're not going anywhere. Come to think of it, that screws us over a little down here, too. Ah well, if we have to lose SoCal in the process it's a small price to pay (sorry Colodia)....

I didn't know Alaska ever got that close...nice. Though with all that oil you're not going anywhere. Come to think of it, that screws us over a little down here, too. Ah well, if we have to lose SoCal in the process it's a small price to pay (sorry Colodia)....
Cannot think of a name? Ouch.

Separation looks like a great idea to some but it only creates more problems. People should strive to find common ground and not create barriers between themselves.

I'd write more but its 3am. G'night all.

And the Texans seperating from Mexico was not illegal?
And the Mexicans seperating from Spain was not illegal?
And the Spainards taking the land from Native Americans was not illegal?

Wow. We Americans must be evil people then!

It depends on which point of view your looking from, really. Mexicans would have considered their actions just, Texans considered their actions just, Spainards considered their actions just. Lincoln considered his actions just. SOuthern slaveowners considered their actions just. Those they were opressing had different opinions.

Everyone will violate some social norm, agreement, or convention at some time. That's pretty much unaviodable. In the end only one law matters; might makes right. This is the foundation of all other laws. After all, if you resist the police with escalating force that will match you untill you are dead. If not for this fact, then laws would be meaningless.

Most successionists and revolutionaries don't have might on their sides. They have high and radical ideals, but they are generally too stupid to adaquatly assess their ability to enforce a secession

I've always liked the idea of South Florida seperating from the country and either annexing or joining some sort of Carribbean Empire, dunno why we'd do it, but it would be fun. We have several nuclear reactors though, so I doubt we would be allowed to.....

HAIL YOUR NEO-ATLANTEAN OVERLORDS!!!

As far as I'm concerned, Quebec can go ahead and leave......just as long as they take their share of the problems with them. Their share of the national deficit.....for example. Quebec is a drain on the rest of Canada....they continually ask for different rules and better deals then the rest of the country without providing a good reason for it. If they decided to seperate, they'd soon find out how tough it is to exist without the safety net the rest of Canada provides.

Here's an interesting list of territories wanting independence. (http://www.mherrera.org/newcountries.htm) (Most of them are a very small minority of the population and have next to no chance.)


As a few have said already, the US Civil War (my country of nationality) pretty much settled this for most of the US. However Puerto Rico and the various Pacific territories are highly likely to eventually be let go peacefully, probably through a referendum.

Japan (my country of residence) has two very small independence movements: Okinawa and Hokkaido. These movements are so small that they have almost no chance of sucess. Okinawa has a marginally better chance.

I really don't think there'll be much political upheaval untill the Native Americans violently retake the American Midwest using ancient magical rituals.

How can you bring up secession without mentioning the Conch Republic (http://www.conchrepublic.com/)?

Following the reading of the Proclamation, the new Prime Minister declared war on the United States, whereupon members of the new government "beat" the federal agents in attendance with stale Cuban bread. The Prime Minister then surrendered, and demanded foreign aid from the United States. We are still waiting for the foreign aid.

Thus, the plucky little Conch Republic was born. Amazingly, the United States government, although they immediately removed the roadblock, never bothered to react to the secession. They never sent even the littlest letter informing the Mayor that they objected to the secession, or "...while this was quite funny, you must realize you cannot be a real country..." Nothing, zip, zero, nothing by way of response...

Meanwhile, the Conch Republic continued to celebrate its independence, annually, in a public and notorious manner The flags flew, passports were issued and traveled on, visas were issued to visitors, the government "functioned"; in short, all the trappings of nationhood were observed while the U.S. said nada.

Quote originally published here (http://www.conchrepublic.com/the_beginning.htm).

I so would support it if we Californians gained independence. We're the fifth (maybe sixth by now) largest economy in the world. We have a major airport, and we're demographically different from the rest of the U.S.

1/3 Hispanic population, Colorado can't beat that!

And I wouldn't mind Arnold being President. He's gonna be President either way somehow, someway.

Now if only we can just figure out a way to get the government to have the L.A. street gangs to do what they want. We'd use them in the event of an invasion, we'd be unstoppable.

I mean...dude...1/3 Hispanic!
When you go, take Arizona with you! We probably can't help much but... um... we can provide old people to use as landmine detectors or something.

Quebec, I understand, has a different majority language, French. The idea of their independence is comparable with the Ahvenanmaa question...

The archipelago off the coast of Southwestern Finland reaches toward another archipelago with a bigger island in the center. The island is called Ahvenanmaa in Finnish, and Åland in the local majority language, Swedish. There is a small Swedish-speaking minority (5%) in Finland, and they're concentrated on the western Baltic Sea coast and archipelago. In the rural towns there, Finnish tends to be the minority language. (Personally, I was in a town with a 30% Finnish minority when I lived there.)

The Ahvenanmaa people wanted to join Sweden sometime before WW2. However, a League of Nations resolution was forged, and it is still enforced today(!). The resolution demilitarizes the area and gives the island some sort of an "autonomy". This means that they are allowed to set anti-Finnish laws, just like the anti-English laws set in Quebec. You aren't allowed to live there, unless you speak Swedish. How this bullshit is tolerated in an EU country, I can't see. Another thing is that the Ahvenanmaa men are exempt of the military service. The island is only draining money from the mainland, and they don't even contribute to the military force!

I would like to see either one of these happening: 1) quit the waste of money cold turkey and declare Ahvenanmaa independent. If they want to set racist laws, better do that in their own petty dictatorship. 2) Annex the territory completely, dissolve the regional parliament, draft the men, and enforce the constitutional ban on discrimination by language. If it's Finland, it's gotta be goddamn Finland and not some Swecomaniac sandbox.

In my country we'd "enlighten" the separatists by nuking them and then chastising them for "human rights abuses."

In my country we'd "enlighten" the separatists by nuking them and then chastising them for "human rights abuses."

So you recomend the use of nuclear weopens on your nieghbors?

I would like to see either one of these happening:

1) quit the waste of money cold turkey and declare Ahvenanmaa independent. If they want to set racist laws, better do that in their own petty dictatorship.

2) Annex the territory completely, dissolve the regional parliament, draft the men, and enforce the constitutional ban on discrimination by language..
i vote for #1.