NationStates Jolt Archive

It is not all that uncommon for Americans to whine about the French when talking about "Europeans". It seems that they only mean the French. This is wrong. The French are not representative of Europeans, and as Europeans, are exceptionally snobby, anti-American, leftist, effeminate and so on. Nice Frenchmen exist, but somehow the Americans can't find them.

The simple solution for us Europeans is to deny that the French would represent Europe. Come on, most Europeans recognise English as an important language. Most Europeans prefer beer over wine. Few Europeans are as anti-American as the French.

But no taking away without bringing in something new. Because many Americans can't understand that Europe is ethnically diverse, we need a single nation to represent Europe. What nation would it be?

My ideas:
1. Estonia. A small nation with an unique language, bordering on ethnically very different countries (Russia and Latvia). Member of the EU, but not Eurozone.
2. Switzerland. An ethnically diverse country with four languages. A rich, politically neutral country. Problem is, not an EU member and thus not in Eurozone.
3. The Benelux countries, complete with EU+euro membership, ethnic diversity, several nationstates, and central location.

Germany has some Nazi associations thanks to the Discovery Hitler Channel, and Southern Europe is too much associated with "Latin" things. GB, Denmark, Sweden are too eurosceptic, and Swedes think they're morally superior to others, so that's a big minus. Finns have too weird a national character (it'd be unrepresentative for Southern Europeans).

EDIT: I'm not implying that Southern Europeans are bad because they're "sort-of Latin". The point is, that the Americans have an idea what "the Latinos" are. That identity is distinct from the Southern European one, and these shouldn't, but would be, confused. Furthermore, the Latin identity is completely misleading when talking about Europeans in general, especially the North European protestants.

Spain? Portugal?

Actually in town I saw a small poster on a lamp post saying "In spain bulls are ritualisticly tortured and killed in the name of 'entertainment' what are you doing about it?" Someone tagged 'Not talking to spaniards' on it heheh.


oh right, southern europe. My bad.

How about the Netherlands? Legalized pot and prostitution should look very lucrative to most americans, even if they claim to be "moral." (like anyone really believes that). Then again, europe might come off as lazy potheads if you used that descriptor. Hmm.

1. Estonia. A small nation with an unique language, bordering on ethnically very different countries (Russia and Latvia). Member of the EU, but not Eurozone.
2. Switzerland. An ethnically diverse country with four languages. A rich, politically neutral country. Problem is, not an EU member and thus not in Eurozone.
3. The Benelux countries, complete with EU+euro membership, ethnic diversity, several nationstates, and central location.

Germany has some Nazi associations

So do all three of those nations. Particularly the first one, with their National Bolsheviks, but don't forget the Swiss with their WWII loot.


And there's nothing wrong with the French. Their government is as corrupt as the US, so I don't understand why they disagree so much. Maybe they're just too similar.

EDIT- You forgot Poland :p

How about instead of stating Europe in a sweeping generalisation, you take the things you know about a specific nation you're talking about, and use that?

You yourself have illustrated how diverse Europe is in terms of culture, language , ethnicity and unity.

It's like lumping asia together, and saying all asians are communists. Is south korea communist? Is Japan communist? No, is Europe full of effeminate eurosceptic unionist liberalist nazis?

What do you think? :rolleyes: :headbang:

You'll find that many of us "Eurosceptic" nations, specifically mine (the UK) resent being compared to the French. That isn't to say we're not good neighbours, of course we are, but we're completely different in a multitude of ways. As is practically every nation in this continent.

Britain wasnt too bad when I went there, it was sort of like the US, except no Walmart...and some guys from PETA yelled at me because I didnt give them money for their anti-foxhunt thingy.
And, I have to say, they were the best drivers I saw in the entire month I was there. But thats just by sanity, Italians might be considered good drivers, unless your a pedestrian.

Sigh, and I cant forget Ronaldo, the drunken bus driver.
Seriously, every time you saw him off the bus he had some sort of alchaholic drink. He was nice though, sold us bottled water/soda for 25 pence, same price as the stations.

Maybe we should rename Europe Eurmerica?

Britain wasnt too bad when I went there, it was sort of like the US, except no Walmart...and some guys from PETA yelled at me because I didnt give them money for their anti-foxhunt thingy.
And, I have to say, they were the best drivers I saw in the entire month I was there. But thats just by sanity, Italians might be considered good drivers, unless your a pedestrian.

Sigh, and I cant forget Ronaldo, the drunken bus driver.
Seriously, every time you saw him off the bus he had some sort of alchaholic drink. He was nice though, sold us bottled water/soda for 25 pence, same price as the stations.

Just for the record we DO have a version of walmart.

I don't know if you'd have heard of a store called ASDA when you were here, thats actually owned by the same group that owns WalMart in the US. It's also introduced many of the same policies used in the states to turn it into one of the biggest competitors for supermarkets in the UK :)

They do?
I never saw a building less than two hundred years old that was large enough to hold one O_O
^Before you try to rack me, that was a joke. So was that.

There were a few Safewayish markets, but mostly I saw small stuff which would be considered 'Mom and pop' in the US, but looked like mini-supermarkets.
And there were a few 'malls' that looked like airport terminals transplanted from the US (Mini-clothing stores, electronics shops, candy/newspaper stores)

They do?
I never saw a building less than two hundred years old that was large enough to hold one O_O
^Before you try to rack me, that was a joke. So was that.

There were a few Safewayish markets, but mostly I saw small stuff which would be considered 'Mom and pop' in the US, but looked like mini-supermarkets.
And there were a few 'malls' that looked like airport terminals transplanted from the US (Mini-clothing stores, electronics shops, candy/newspaper stores)

Yup, we got em.

You gotta remember, we got alot less land to put things than you lot do :p

Our like, mega-walmarts are the size of your regular ones :p

We do have some malls on an equivalent size to your normal towns, but they're mostly in major cities. For example, I don't know if you've ever been to the McArthur Centre in Norfolk VA but something on that size we have for example in Glasgow or various other places.

I have to say, as comftarble and "together" as malls can be, I prefer being able to walk round town with the "mom and pop" shops. In the UK you'll have stores like GAP will open up in a downtown mom and pop area, so to speak.

How about instead of stating Europe in a sweeping generalisation, you take the things you know about a specific nation you're talking about, and use that?


Works, except that the entity of "Europe" does exist, to some degree independent of the nation states. We can say Europeans are this and Europeans are that compared to Americans, because some things in American culture are peculiar. (Spelling contests, for example.)


You yourself have illustrated how diverse Europe is in terms of culture, language , ethnicity and unity. It's like lumping asia together, and saying all asians are communists. Is south korea communist? Is Japan communist? No, is Europe full of effeminate eurosceptic unionist liberalist nazis? What do you think? :rolleyes: :headbang:


The problem isn't that I would think that Europe is "just one lump", it's that it seems that many Americans are unable to think it in any other way. They've picked the French as the ultimate representation of Europeans, and whine about their anti-Americanism. This is wrong. But the "diversity" argument doesn't really work, because it's too vague.


You'll find that many of us "Eurosceptic" nations, specifically mine (the UK) resent being compared to the French. That isn't to say we're not good neighbours, of course we are, but we're completely different in a multitude of ways. As is practically every nation in this continent.

That's a good point, but in practice, euroscepticism means that the country is not in the Eurozone.

The problem isn't that I would think that Europe is "just one lump",


Ewww ... lumpy Europeans.


many Americans are unable to think


You could have ended that right there.

Just for the record we DO have a version of walmart.

I don't know if you'd have heard of a store called ASDA when you were here, thats actually owned by the same group that owns WalMart in the US. It's also introduced many of the same policies used in the states to turn it into one of the biggest competitors for supermarkets in the UK :)

... Now I'm really really scared. I mean, it was bad enough when Wal-mart was only in the U.S. (seriously, theres one in every town... it's kinda like a monster in a horror movie that the protagonist can't escape...)

But now I know that Wal-mart is bigger than I could have imagined. This is creepy and really disturbing. *suddenly wonders whether Max Berry can see the future*

EDIT : oh, and it's hard to generalize a continent, so instead of just picking a nation as a representative, people just need to be a little more specific. If your talking about the French, say France, and keep the rest of Europe out of it.

Ewww ... lumpy Europeans.



You could have ended that right there.


Man "Europeans" are dumb. Just for the record, America has the second highest overall test scores from grades 9-12 in the entire world. Japan is the only country ahead of the U.S., and that is because some schools in Japan have forced saturday school and easily 5-8 hours of homework a night. Go check the statistics if you don't believe me.

Man "Europeans" are dumb. Just for the record, America has the second highest overall test scores from grades 9-12 in the entire world. Japan is the only country ahead of the U.S., and that is because some schools in Japan have forced saturday school and easily 5-8 hours of homework a night. Go check the statistics if you don't believe me.

Maybe that's because American tests are easier. Did you think of that, hmm?

Switzerland sounds good; they've always been neutral in wars, after all. Though it could be because practically their entire country is mountainous...

Britain wasnt too bad when I went there, it was sort of like the US, except no Walmart...and some guys from PETA yelled at me because I didnt give them money for their anti-foxhunt thingy.


Actually we don't have PETA here, you probably mean the RSPCA or ALF or some other assorted nutters.

Incidentally, while being outside of the country I've come to realise that I tend to be able to connect better with other Europeans than Americans (or Canadians for that matter) in terms of humour, shared values, opinions etc. Just a personal note, but it surprised me.

Man "Europeans" are dumb. Just for the record, America has the second highest overall test scores from grades 9-12 in the entire world. Japan is the only country ahead of the U.S., and that is because some schools in Japan have forced saturday school and easily 5-8 hours of homework a night. Go check the statistics if you don't believe me.

I did. You are the 15th... The results are from the the Pisa study which ranked the learning skills among 15-year-olds in OECD countries.

U.S. students finished 15th in reading, 19th in math and 14th in science - and in a study that only ranked 31 nations. But that is good still; you put some 180+ nations behind you.

What this has to do with the original subject of this thread, I have no idea...
But I still would like to see your statistics - I couldn't find them on my own. :(

http://www.oecd.org/document/28/0,2340,en_2649_201185_34010524_1_1_1_1,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4073753.stm
http://www.conway.com/ssinsider/snapshot/sf011210.htm

Because many Americans can't understand that Europe is ethnically diverse, we need a single nation to represent Europe. What nation would it be?

Poland.

Why?

* Poland has been a friend of the US since before the American Revolution.
* A lot of the fundamental political ideas in the USA come from the "Polish brethren" (John Locke was influenced by Samuel Przypkowski and Andrzej Wiszowaty; Joseph Priestly, a Unitarian and a friend of both Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, introduced them to the ideas of Przypkowski, Crellius and Joachim Stegmann)
* Poles fought very hard in WW2 on our side (the Polish 1st Armored Division blocked the retreat of some 300,000 Germans in France, at a hill nicknamed "The Mace"... they were outnumbered about 50:1 but they held on for days until all Germans were killed or captured. about half of the Poles died in that battle.)
* Even under soviet-installed commie regime, the Polish people felt positively about the US
* Lots of Polish immigrants in the US (or their descendants)
* They are a good ally today (Iraq, etc)

As Bush says "You forgot Poland" and they are well worth remembering ;)

Because many Americans can't understand that Europe is ethnically diverse, we need a single nation to represent Europe. What nation would it be?


The Vatican (Holy See) because:
1. It used to rule the entire known world, but now doesn't.
2. Is very rich, but not militarily effective.
3. Corrupt, backstabbing and secretive - whilst proclaiming to be all for peace and love.
4. Always has an opinion on everything.
5. Historically anti-Israel.
6. Believes that American Prostestant Churches are evil spawn of Satan, but will not say so openly.
7. Wanted Kerry to win.
8. And most importantly - shares the same cultural roots as most Americans and is America's natural ally. Is pretty much invested in a strong American and a good friend.

Switzerland is probably the coutnry i'd least like to live in the whole of Europe. An banking country that got where it did from stealing Jewish gold, overwhelmingly conservative and just seems depressing to me. One country can't represent Europe, it's such a diverse area.

As much as you might want to, it's impossible to generalize Europe. While it's made up of such a multitude of different countries, those countries are made up of a multitude of different cultures. Northern and Southern Germany are worlds apart. You can generalize America because America has a culture of Generalization and Conformity, since it is, paradoxically, much more split up into various cultures. European cultures have a stronger local Identity and thereby have a stronger stance against "national" culture, while Americans have a stronger affiliation to their country.
You can't name one country to represent Europe. It's just not possible.

Personally I don't care what Americans think about Europe, and a beleive Americans don't care about how we view them. But if you need a European representative how about Ireland & Scotland, failing that the Ukraine (everybody loves the Ukraine at the moment).

There isnt one country that is representative of europe. Spain is at max a 3 hour drive from any point of my nation, and they are completly different from us. The French, the Greek, the brits, all of they are very, very different. With the exception of SOME religious traits, and some common history, everything is different.

Oh, and mind you, that the French are as anti-american as anyone else, which means that they dont hate americans, just bush. But it seems america as gotten a little xenophobic against the frenchy, lately.

Isn't it hilarious how good relations to the US have become a key criterion for representation of Europe?

Actually, since the majority of European countries now hate the US, I think France and Germany are quite good representatives of so-called "Old Europe". New Europe, originally consisting of England, Poland, Italy and Spain (the latter two of which appear to have "aged" pretty rapidly), has shrunk down to England, Italy and Poland. Poland is also showing signs of aging next year.

It is not all that uncommon for Americans to whine about the French when talking about "Europeans". It seems that they only mean the French. This is wrong. The French are not representative of Europeans, and as Europeans, are exceptionally snobby, anti-American, leftist, effeminate and so on. Nice Frenchmen exist, but somehow the Americans can't find them.

The simple solution for us Europeans is to deny that the French would represent Europe. Come on, most Europeans recognise English as an important language. Most Europeans prefer beer over wine. Few Europeans are as anti-American as the French.

But no taking away without bringing in something new. Because many Americans can't understand that Europe is ethnically diverse, we need a single nation to represent Europe. What nation would it be?

My ideas:
1. Estonia. A small nation with an unique language, bordering on ethnically very different countries (Russia and Latvia). Member of the EU, but not Eurozone.
2. Switzerland. An ethnically diverse country with four languages. A rich, politically neutral country. Problem is, not an EU member and thus not in Eurozone.
3. The Benelux countries, complete with EU+euro membership, ethnic diversity, several nationstates, and central location.

Germany has some Nazi associations thanks to the Discovery Hitler Channel, and Southern Europe is too much associated with "Latin" things. GB, Denmark, Sweden are too eurosceptic, and Swedes think they're morally superior to others, so that's a big minus. Finns have too weird a national character (it'd be unrepresentative for Southern Europeans).

EDIT: I'm not implying that Southern Europeans are bad because they're "sort-of Latin". The point is, that the Americans have an idea what "the Latinos" are. That identity is distinct from the Southern European one, and these shouldn't, but would be, confused. Furthermore, the Latin identity is completely misleading when talking about Europeans in general, especially the North European protestants.Hello - semi-reasonably intelligent citizen of the United States here.

I can only hope you are being very sarcastic. Because, absent sarcasm, this is a ridiculous notion.

I have been to Europe twice, and enjoyed the company of a lot of wonderful people. I intend to go back. I spent 2 years 8 months there the first time, and two weeks the second time. So far I've only been to Germany, France, Spain, Austira, Switzerland, Italy, Belgium, Lichenstein, Luxumbourg (sp?) and Denmark.

I didn't find France/the French any different then the rest of Europe - neither more nor less friendly.

I did find Paris/SOME Parisians a little less friendly. I attribute this to the Americans (some of whom I also know personally, unfortunately) who repeatedly "visit" Paris without ever going anywhere else in Europe. These people (and there ilk does exist elsewhere on the planet) are simply obnoxious, and would make their own mothers behave in ways designed to drive them away.

In summary - it's not Europe, it's not France, it's not Americans. It's a select group of people who have enough money to travel frequently, combined with a talent for being rude and annoying, and the response these obnoxious pinheads generate in otherwise normal and reasonable people where ever they go.

My son spent a year in Belgium as an exchange student a number of years ago. The people he met, and stayed with, were extremely kind/nice/friendly. In fact, when we visited him while he was there, his host family was visiting their son in Arizona - and let us use their house as our own. We became good friends. They stayed with us for a month last summer. We have an open invitation to stay with them.

We had a very nice young man from Denmark stay with us while he was in the US as an exchange student. When we visited Denmark, his family treated us like royalty.

My daughter had the opportunity to visit England a couple of times and Scotland once. The people she met were also very kind/nice/friendly.

In fact, quite a few of my family (sisters, etc) have been to Europe and, with the exception of a couple of waiters in Paris, every European we've collectively met has been very friendly.

I honestly thin, to un-frenchify Europe, the breaking of the EU is the beginning.

And for some reason, it feels like all the countries seem a lot like they did before WWII...

I honestly thin, to un-frenchify Europe, the breaking of the EU is the beginning.

And for some reason, it feels like all the countries seem a lot like they did before WWII...Come and visit Finland... You have no idea.

Poland.

Why?

* Poland has been a friend of the US since before the American Revolution.
* A lot of the fundamental political ideas in the USA come from the "Polish brethren" (John Locke was influenced by Samuel Przypkowski and Andrzej Wiszowaty; Joseph Priestly, a Unitarian and a friend of both Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, introduced them to the ideas of Przypkowski, Crellius and Joachim Stegmann)
* Poles fought very hard in WW2 on our side (the Polish 1st Armored Division blocked the retreat of some 300,000 Germans in France, at a hill nicknamed "The Mace"... they were outnumbered about 50:1 but they held on for days until all Germans were killed or captured. about half of the Poles died in that battle.)
* Even under soviet-installed commie regime, the Polish people felt positively about the US
* Lots of Polish immigrants in the US (or their descendants)
* They are a good ally today (Iraq, etc)

As Bush says "You forgot Poland" and they are well worth remembering ;)
General Maczek. He liberated my home town. He's got a statue here, and there's also a Polish tank monument in town centre. Too bad the Polish got treated like shit afterwards. After the war Gen. Maczek even had to work as a dish washer in London.


Switzerland is probably the coutnry i'd least like to live in the whole of Europe. An banking country that got where it did from stealing Jewish gold, overwhelmingly conservative and just seems depressing to me. One country can't represent Europe, it's such a diverse area.
From what I heard, the traditional Swiss stereotype can be described in one word: boring.
There is an expression around these parts though: As drunk as a Swiss, so apparently they drink a lot.
I don't know about the conservativeness. Pot is tolerated, afaik.

Hello - semi-reasonably intelligent citizen of the United States here.

I didn't find France/the French any different then the rest of Europe - neither more nor less friendly.

I did find Paris/SOME Parisians a little less friendly. I attribute this to the Americans (some of whom I also know personally, unfortunately) who repeatedly "visit" Paris without ever going anywhere else in Europe. These people (and there ilk does exist elsewhere on the planet) are simply obnoxious, and would make their own mothers behave in ways designed to drive them away.

In summary - it's not Europe, it's not France, it's not Americans. It's a select group of people who have enough money to travel frequently, combined with a talent for being rude and annoying, and the response these obnoxious pinheads generate in otherwise normal and reasonable people where ever they go.

My son spent a year in Belgium as an exchange student a number of years ago. The people he met, and stayed with, were extremely kind/nice/friendly. In fact, when we visited him while he was there, his host family was visiting their son in Arizona - and let us use their house as our own. We became good friends. They stayed with us for a month last summer. We have an open invitation to stay with them.

In fact, quite a few of my family (sisters, etc) have been to Europe and, with the exception of a couple of waiters in Paris, every European we've collectively met has been very friendly.
Hah! Paris. Yeah those people suck.

I'm glad your son liked his stay in Belgium

I still take Europe one nation at a time. Poland is so radically different from France, and it's that way with almost every nation in the region. Italy is radically different from Britain. It's just an all around diverse place.

Europe needs to become more like France, not less. I think the French government is the most representative of the opinions of the European people. The few governments that supported the war may be popular with arrogant Americans but are hated by Europeans.

General Maczek. He liberated my home town. He's got a statue here, and there's also a Polish tank monument in town centre. Too bad the Polish got treated like shit afterwards. After the war Gen. Maczek even had to work as a dish washer in London.

Yes, I would say that of all the countries in WW2 Poland got the absolute worst deal of all, thanks to the ambitions of the Soviets and the indecision and accomodation of the West, as represented by Gen Eisenhower.

Interesting history lesson there.

Let's unfrenchifry Europe!
I agree! Because fried French fries are very unhealthy and detrimental to life, as are anything that is deep fried. I think we should encourage frenchibaking in Europe, because baked fries are much more healthy.