NationStates Jolt Archive


US finally steps up in tsunami relief

Incertonia
31-12-2004, 23:03
According to this story on MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6767190/), the US has announced $350 million in aid for the nations afflicted by the earthquake and subsequent tsunamis.

It's good, especially considering that Powell said that there will be more to come if it's needed, but for a little perspective, that total--substantial as it is--is about a third of what we spend in Iraq every week, and about one-twelfth of what Halliburton was paid in government contracts last year.
Grays Hill
31-12-2004, 23:05
I was happy to hear it. Espicially after everybody was ganging up on the US for not giving that much. Hm...it seemed to shut them up. We gave $350,000, plus we are leading the UN to give more.
Illuminatorum
31-12-2004, 23:15
According to this story on MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6767190/), the US has announced $350 million in aid for the nations afflicted by the earthquake and subsequent tsunamis.

It's good, especially considering that Powell said that there will be more to come if it's needed, but for a little perspective, that total--substantial as it is--is about a third of what we spend in Iraq every week, and about one-twelfth of what Halliburton was paid in government contracts last year.Here's a clue, in Iraq it takes money to provide aid AND to put forth an effort to stop impending disasters from happening.

In addition, I'm guessing you won't run into daily car bombs, attacks, and the like, in any of those countries right now.

What are you trying to prove?

Everything the US does just isn't good enough for anyone. It's sad, really. Must you find fault in even the most generous donations?
Incertonia
31-12-2004, 23:23
Here's a clue, in Iraq it takes money to provide aid AND to put forth an effort to stop impending disasters from happening.

In addition, I'm guessing you won't run into daily car bombs, attacks, and the like, in any of those countries right now.

What are you trying to prove?

Everything the US does just isn't good enough for anyone. It's sad, really. Must you find fault in even the most generous donations?
Here's a clue for you--Iraq was a mess of our own making, an entirely avoidable mess. The only reason I included the example was to provide a little perspective as to the amount of money we're pledging for relief. But maybe if we weren't dropping more than a billion a week into Iraq, we'd have a little more to pledge to help out southeast Asia.
Grays Hill
31-12-2004, 23:25
Here's a clue for you--Iraq was a mess of our own making, an entirely avoidable mess. The only reason I included the example was to provide a little perspective as to the amount of money we're pledging for relief. But maybe if we weren't dropping more than a billion a week into Iraq, we'd have a little more to pledge to help out southeast Asia.

Well I wouldnt complain then, being that we are able to support Iraq, and be the country to donate the most money to aid Asia in their time of need.
Illuminatorum
31-12-2004, 23:32
Here's a clue for you--Iraq was a mess of our own making, an entirely avoidable mess. The only reason I included the example was to provide a little perspective as to the amount of money we're pledging for relief. But maybe if we weren't dropping more than a billion a week into Iraq, we'd have a little more to pledge to help out southeast Asia.Again, what are you trying to prove? That the people in Asia are more deserving than Iraqis? Who are you to decide that they're not just as worthy?

Look, we're helping everyone here. There's $350 million now, and there might be more, up to and possibly past a billion. We have the money to give them if they need it. What's the beef, sir?
Incertonia
31-12-2004, 23:36
Again, what are you trying to prove? That the people in Asia are more deserving than Iraqis? Who are you to decide that they're not just as worthy?

Look, we're helping everyone here. There's $350 million now, and there might be more, up to and possibly past a billion. We have the money to give them if they need it. What's the beef, sir?
No beef. I'm glad we stepped up. I'm just saying that while it's good we stepped up, we also need a little perspective in just how large a sum of money this is in comparison to other things we as a nation spend money on. Truth is, it's not that vast a sum. It's bigger than anything else anyone has put up, and I repeat, I'm glad we're doing it--I just want a little perspective.
Illuminatorum
31-12-2004, 23:40
No beef. I'm glad we stepped up. I'm just saying that while it's good we stepped up, we also need a little perspective in just how large a sum of money this is in comparison to other things we as a nation spend money on. Truth is, it's not that vast a sum. It's bigger than anything else anyone has put up, and I repeat, I'm glad we're doing it--I just want a little perspective.Yes, well, allow me to be the first to commend your noble efforts to provide that little bit of insight to make the US look bad after donating a whopping $350,000,000.00 (which, of course, doesn't count the $3 million per day to run the aircraft carrier and the private donations from US companies or the American Red Cross, all of which brings United States donations to over $400,000,000.00 USD).
Grays Hill
01-01-2005, 00:10
And the C-130s delivering supplys. And the USAF planes that left Japan and landed in Thailand do help. And all the other ships that we have out there, espicially the 7 that we have out there that purify water and make it clean for them, so they wont get diseases.
Salvondia
01-01-2005, 00:18
Here's a clue for you--Iraq was a mess of our own making, an entirely avoidable mess. The only reason I included the example was to provide a little perspective as to the amount of money we're pledging for relief. But maybe if we weren't dropping more than a billion a week into Iraq, we'd have a little more to pledge to help out southeast Asia.

Here's a clue for you, Iraq was a mess before we got there, and would of stayed a mess if we never went. Now we're involved in that mess, of our choice, trying to make it better. Too bad you think something’s only a mess when American lives are being lost but not when those non-human Arabs get killed by their dictators.
Red1stang
01-01-2005, 00:23
man, I was having fun being a stingy American
Pedie
01-01-2005, 01:01
Iraq is not the issue. It has nothing to do with the situation in Asia. To even bring up a comparison of the spending in Iraq to the disaster relief pledged i order to slam the US is using the tragedies of others to advance your anti-war sentiment and that is repugnant.

As for the comments on the US finally stepping up with an acceptable sizeable contribution, or Bush finally making a statement, or the American people finally starting to help, you people need a lesson in reality. First of all, Bush could have held a press conference every hour on the hour and you would probably still be bitching. Instead he used the first couple of days to get information on the amount of damage and start a working plan from there. He also used his time organizing a coalition of nations to direct the disaster relief efforts. As for the money angle, in case it has escaped your notice, in subtle ways we are being told that the governments of most of the nations hit are not too good about seeing to money ending up in the care of their citizens. We are being advised to send our private donations to any one of several charitable organizations but not to the governments of those nations. The US wisely sent $15,000,000 initially to take care of immediate needs, then upped the ante the next day by $20,000,000 as more info was available. Now there are reputable organizations and our own people over there so we are sending another $315,000,000 to them to use on the people who need it. Would you suggest that we just send a few hundred million to their governments and hope that some of it makes it to the victims? Should we have just thrown a wad of money at them with no idea of what was needed and called it good? Good grief, they are still finding thousands of bodies every day and they say that there are vast remote areas that they haven't been able to reach yet. Plus what of the people that were swept out to sea and will never be found? Bush has said over and over again that we will send aid as needed and that the US can be expected to contribute BILLIONS over the next few months and years.

So what exactly is your gripe?
Goed Twee
01-01-2005, 01:20
And I continue to whore out the link in my signiture.

I just love how it's killed two or three threads now ;)
Eutrusca
01-01-2005, 01:52
Hey! I've got an idea! Why don't we just take all of the money the US would be giving to the UN over the next four years and DONATE it to the nations affected by the tsunami? It would cut out the UN middle man, save money by not letting Anan and company skim their take off the top, and send the UN exactly where it belongs ... to perdition! :D
Vittos Ordination
01-01-2005, 02:11
Hey! I've got an idea! Why don't we just take all of the money the US would be giving to the UN over the next four years and DONATE it to the nations affected by the tsunami? It would cut out the UN middle man, save money by not letting Anan and company skim their take off the top, and send the UN exactly where it belongs ... to perdition! :D

Amen, we have already undermined all of its authority, so I say we bring it down in one fell swoop. :p

But seriously, if you look at how much the government spends, over 2 trillion dollars, (2,000,000,000,000, that's a lot of zeros), 350M would only add an extra 1/8 of a percent to our budget. I am not going to argue that we should do more, but everyone arguing that we are doing a great deal is kidding him/herself.
Pedie
01-01-2005, 02:46
Amen, we have already undermined all of its authority, so I say we bring it down in one fell swoop. :p

But seriously, if you look at how much the government spends, over 2 trillion dollars, (2,000,000,000,000, that's a lot of zeros), 350M would only add an extra 1/8 of a percent to our budget. I am not going to argue that we should do more, but everyone arguing that we are doing a great deal is kidding him/herself.

Proportionately we haven't done a great deal yet. Of course it's only been a week and the President says we are committed for the long haul. Right now we are seeing to the immediate needs of the victims. Later will come the stabilization and then the rebuilding. This mess isn't going to be cleaned up for years.
Gen Curtis E LeMay
01-01-2005, 02:51
It's all a huge waste of money. For a fraction of the aid now being donated, warning systems and procedures could have been in place that would have hugely mitigated the extent of this disaster. It's not like this is really a suprise, engineers have been talking about the potential of indian ocean Tsunami since the 60s, yet the governments in that region would rather fight civil wars with foreign aid than try and help their own people.

So where is all this money and aid going to go, probably to fund the same old nonsense.

It's a waste.
Pedie
01-01-2005, 03:01
It's all a huge waste of money. For a fraction of the aid now being donated, warning systems and procedures could have been in place that would have hugely mitigated the extent of this disaster. It's not like this is really a suprise, engineers have been talking about the potential of indian ocean Tsunami since the 60s, yet the governments in that region would rather fight civil wars with foreign aid than try and help their own people.

So where is all this money and aid going to go, probably to fund the same old nonsense.

It's a waste.

You're right, the governments in that region have not used humanitarian aid to take care of the people. I heard a report that they are still resisting a warning system saying it is too expensive and that a tsunami is a once a century event. I think international pressure and the loss of tourist trade will probably give them a new perspective on that! Our aid isn't going to the governments but to the agencies involved in the cleanup.
Invidentia
01-01-2005, 10:20
Amen, we have already undermined all of its authority, so I say we bring it down in one fell swoop. :p

But seriously, if you look at how much the government spends, over 2 trillion dollars, (2,000,000,000,000, that's a lot of zeros), 350M would only add an extra 1/8 of a percent to our budget. I am not going to argue that we should do more, but everyone arguing that we are doing a great deal is kidding him/herself.

LOL.. the US has undermined the UN's authority.. thats a laugh.. the UN has been undermining its own authority since its inception.. All through the cold war.. the 12 years IRaq was under sanctions, Rwanda, Bosnia .. the UN has proven Useless in all but a hand full of situations. Its a sad but true reality that the UN is nothing more then a forum of debate for diplomats.. beyond that, it is truely irrelevent
Stripe-lovers
01-01-2005, 13:24
Can we all stop. Please? Fer crying out loud, I'm all for a bit of "let's bash the USA", it helps relieve the tension of being British and so being bum raped on a regular basis by Bush. But, I mean, c'mon. The US administration has just increased its funds by ten fold, meaning it is now donating more than 3 times the amount of the next nation (which would be us, wait, was that my dick popping out?). And there's only so much money you can donate initially to a disaster like this, until the proper infrastructure is in place anything else will either be waiting to be used or just wasted. And as for Iraq, it's irrelevant. The US is spending that money because it has far more commitments there. It's an entirely dissimilar situation and so there's no reasonable comparison that can be made.

So anyone who still thinks this is not enough I suggest you do at least one of two things:
1) Petition your local representative to get your country to donate more money. Even if you are not a US citizen this will probably have a knock-on effect on the US.
2) DONATE!!!!!
Bitching about it on an messageboard attached to an online game won't help save lives.
Pepe Dominguez
01-01-2005, 13:45
I like this thread. I mean, it's so absurdly ripe for in pari delicto pickings, and yet no one's turning that card.. totally contrary to my own gut instinct, but for the best. :)
Gen Curtis E LeMay
01-01-2005, 13:51
I like this thread. I mean, it's so absurdly ripe for in pari delicto pickings, and yet no one's turning that card.. totally contrary to my own gut instinct, but for the best. :)

In identical fault?

There is no fault on the part of the US. It is all the fault of those stupid countries.
Pepe Dominguez
01-01-2005, 14:01
In identical fault?

There is no fault on the part of the US. It is all the fault of those stupid countries.

I know, but it's still a goldmine. There's France and Germany, which donated one million each, to our 35 million on Day 1. Then the UN calls us 'stingy...' then you have Kofi Annan skiing for 3 days during and afterward, along with European newspapers (and some US papers) calling Bush 'insensitive' for not leaving Texas (on Christmas Day) when he heard the news... it's just a goldmine.. ;)
Sumiut
01-01-2005, 18:37
I know, but it's still a goldmine. There's France and Germany, which donated one million each, to our 35 million on Day 1. Then the UN calls us 'stingy...'


And then people wonder why we hate the UN...
Kanabia
01-01-2005, 18:41
Then the UN calls us 'stingy...'

And then people wonder why we hate the UN...

Ah, but it wasn't just to the US. The UN statement was directed at ALL western countries. If you reread the original CNN article where this statement first surfaced, it clearly says that.
Sumiut
01-01-2005, 19:14
And your point is...?
Ghost Recons
01-01-2005, 19:52
The point is we(America) give the most money to the tsunami people and the
UN coplains we're stingy and don't give enough. The UN should be happy that the US gave any money at all. Just because we have a good economy doesn't mean we can give billions of dollars. We have prolems of our own. So I think they need to be happy with what they get. The country(I think it was India) was told to get a warning system, but did they, No. And are they going to get one, problly not. What was the last thing they did for some other country, besides fund terrorism and take American jobs.
Armed Bookworms
01-01-2005, 20:01
Indonesia.