NationStates Jolt Archive

Curious to find out various opinions...

Is it me, or is the USA developing an inward looking, xenophobic society?

I understand that September 11 was a pivotal moment, and yes action was needed, but this "with us or against us" mentality is, in my opinion, seriously damaging.

Stop hating my freedom, foreigner.

Curious to find out various opinions...

Is it me, or is the USA developing an inward looking, xenophobic society?

I understand that September 11 was a pivotal moment, and yes action was needed, but this "with us or against us" mentality is, in my opinion, seriously damaging.

Ya, you got it right.

not hating your freedom... just questioning the motives behind the arguments used to justify actions

consider the views of a child growing up in the current climate... what impression are they getting about the world at large?

Curious to find out various opinions...

Is it me, or is the USA developing an inward looking, xenophobic society?

I understand that September 11 was a pivotal moment, and yes action was needed, but this "with us or against us" mentality is, in my opinion, seriously damaging.
eek flamebait!
but seriously thats how the militant religious conservative right seem to be influencing the once balanced and great society, to me.

not hating your freedom... just questioning the motives behind the arguments used to justify actions

consider the views of a child growing up in the current climate... what impression are they getting about the world at large?
That it's a scary place filled with barbarians and those who appease them out of fear and that if civilization is to continue the USA must rise to the challenge of fighting off the barbarian hordes. In short, the correct impression. ;)

I think the current situation in Iraq shows us to be anything but inward-looking.

I don't like xenophobia - what I do like though, is isolationist foreign policy (something few people advocate nowadays); simply not to interfere with the rest of the world, no matter how shitty it gets

No, not all of US society is like that. Some Americans (Including some in power) are inward-looking xenophobes, but by no means all.

Americans aren't xenophobic so much as they don't seem to care about what happens in the outside world. They seem to have the attitude that the US is the most important country and that all the others are just filler.

That it's a scary place filled with barbarians and those who appease them out of fear and that if civilization is to continue the USA must rise to the challenge of fighting off the barbarian hordes. In short, the correct impression. ;)

Boy, that is scary and xenophobic - to see the rest of the world as barbarian hordes. Are you sure you don't work in the Bush White House?

Unfortunately most Americans know next to nothing about the rest of the world. Wars are how Americans learn geography.

Boy, that is scary and xenophobic - to see the rest of the world as barbarian hordes. Are you sure you don't work in the Bush White House?

Unfortunately most Americans know next to nothing about the rest of the world. Wars are how Americans learn geography.
You're not all barbarian hordes. Some of you are just cowards who think appeasement is the way to stay safe like the french and spanish. Some of you are nice sidekicks, like the british, the poles, etc.



Please understand this is just a parody of what some people really do think.

This is not an excuse but it is an explaination of sorts.

Those of you who live in Europe - if you all drove say 10 hours from your home - I think most of you would have crossed atleast a couple of countries.

I on the other hand by virtue of living close to a border would have crossed into just one ( and that would be either Mexico or Canada ) There are many, many Americans that if they drove 10 hours might have just crossed a couple of state lines.

You all have much easier access to other countries, languages and cultures than we do.

I do see a trend now days of the US wanting to look inward, and to be less tolerant of other cultures / nationalities, especially those who seem critical of us ( especially when there is a very good chance that those criticizing have never met an American )

This is not an excuse but it is an explaination of sorts.

Those of you who live in Europe - if you all drove say 10 hours from your home - I think most of you would have crossed atleast a couple of countries.

I on the other hand by virtue of living close to a border would have crossed into just one ( and that would be either Mexico or Canada ) There are many, many Americans that if they drove 10 hours might have just crossed a couple of state lines.

You all have much easier access to other countries, languages and cultures than we do.

I do see a trend now days of the US wanting to look inward, and to be less tolerant of other cultures / nationalities, especially those who seem critical of us ( especially when there is a very good chance that those criticizing have never met an American )
Ten hours would put me somewhere in Canada.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=385882

This is not an excuse but it is an explaination of sorts.

Those of you who live in Europe - if you all drove say 10 hours from your home - I think most of you would have crossed atleast a couple of countries.

I on the other hand by virtue of living close to a border would have crossed into just one ( and that would be either Mexico or Canada ) There are many, many Americans that if they drove 10 hours might have just crossed a couple of state lines.

It is the same if you live in England you could cross into Scotland if you went one way or Wales if you went an other or drown if you went an other.

I wish to whore out my link

Eutru, I know it's YOU we're talking about here, but please don't.

Americans aren't xenophobic so much as they don't seem to care about what happens in the outside world. They seem to have the attitude that the US is the most important country and that all the others are just filler.

Not speaking for all Americans, I really don't give a rat's ass about the rest of the world. In fact, I hardly have a care for things that fall outside the scope of my neighborhood community. I'm not here on this Earth to change the world, or to regulate it's policy, or to inflict my narrow one-sided opinions on others. I'm not here to help the needy that aren't immediately on my doorstep. I'm not here to please everyone else's outflowing diarrhetic sense of morals or ethics. I'm not here at the beck and call of every special interest stooge, political activist with an agenda, corporate captain looking to finance another boat, or government pickpocket employed to transfer my earnings to all of the above.

I'm here to live my life the best that I can, according to values that are important to me. I'm here to raise my kids as best I may, and teach them to think for themselves, and I'm here to generally make my time on this Earth as enjoyable for me and my family as I can - while I can.

Everything else is just filler.

not hating your freedom... just questioning the motives behind the arguments used to justify actions

consider the views of a child growing up in the current climate... what impression are they getting about the world at large?

no European should ever even bring up this argument... because they've no place.. there is no heterogenous xenophobic place then europe.. America is the bastion of acceptance Europe could never be.. We live as a melting pot accepting other peoples differences, where one of your most intolerable societies (france) forces people to be mroe french, to the point of hiding their religion

no European should ever even bring up this argument... because they've no place.. there is no heterogenous xenophobic place then europe.. America is the bastion of acceptance Europe could never be.. We live as a melting pot accepting other peoples differences, where one of your most intolerable societies (france) forces people to be mroe french, to the point of hiding their religion

How many times have you been to Europe?

How many times have you been to Europe?

I know about this French 'secularism'. I have known a lot of French people along the way. Don't ask me how often I've been to Europe, I've been over there three times. Most of the time I was in Europe, I was in either Bosnia-Hercegovina, or Croatia, places which are very diverse, maybe low on tolerance but definately high on diversity. French people strike me as more like Americans than most Americans care to admit.

I personally do not care for the French 'secularist' thing, but I have to give the French a few points here, it actually came from good intentions. The idea was to have there be less religious conflict. It led to more instead.

France was like Britain, once a great colonial power. Former great colonial powers often have an interesting mix of foreigners. France has six million Muslims, they used to have Algeria and Morroco as colonies, so Morrocans and Algerians go to France to do work, and live there in huge numbers. This was an unanticipated result of colonialism in Britain as well.

The results are an excellent argument for basically an isolationist foreign policy.

Americans may not realize it in a conscious way, but some do know that every time this country has a foreign involvement, usually a foreign war, we get lots of refugees from the same war in the United States. This has effects on the general culture.

My experience is that for at least a time, the worst aspects of each culture are exchanged with the worst aspects of American culture. It would be wonderful if instead we'd exchange what was BEST.

Maybe that's not human nature.

Europe cannot say it is a total bastion of tolerance, there was the Holocaust, that didn't happen in the U.S. There were Stalin's purges, again, didn't happen in the U.S. 'Ethinic cleansing' in the Balkans again this did not happen in the U.S.
The French bit about head-scarves and yarmulkas again, did not happen in the U.S. because if there is not reasonable accomadation on religion, there are law suits.

Now due to terrorism, if I go to the bank, I have to take off my scarf. I wear one because in fact Christians are supposed to wear scarves and dress modestly. I take it off going in the bank as the need to reassure them I'm not a robber or a terrorist must take first place, I don't go to the bank that often anyway. Further, it's only my scarf, not my whole dress. That might be another matter! :) Further, the bank will make reasonable accomadation if you ASK! Noe one in this gulag wears a burka! :)

I have a far worse problem with the 'corporate' dress code that most American companies impose. Do any of you realize that women can now be compelled by their company to wear makeup on the job? That it is LEGAL to impose rules on men about whether they have facial hair, or not?

I don't think that is right, if someone is clean, and neat, and decently covered, I don't think those things ought to make a difference, but it does and there isn't much accomadation now to differences.
That is stupid, and not right.

Curious to find out various opinions...

Is it me, or is the USA developing an inward looking, xenophobic society?

I understand that September 11 was a pivotal moment, and yes action was needed, but this "with us or against us" mentality is, in my opinion, seriously damaging.

Just 51% of them.. :p

Well, you gotta understand the Americans, that was just the second time they got atacked in their ground, they got kinda jumpy and scared after 9/11.

And action was taken after 9/11. Hell, NATO even put itself at the service of the Americans, they just refused. And you had Afghanistan, there you have a nice example of cooperation between several nations. Then you have Iraq, but lets not go into there.

and not even all of the 51 percent who voted for bush are xenophobic nationalists... just like people voted for kerry as a lesser of two evils, I'm sure people voted for bush as a lesser of two evils, etc etc

How many times have you been to Europe?

well.. ive only been there twice, totaling a month of time in europe.. but im political sciencist in trade, now waiting to go to graduate school. My concentration was in European affairs and the EU.. and ive studied in depth the histories and demographics of the major nations being britian, german, france, italy, austria, the benelux countries... as a whole Europe suffers far more instances of intolerance/race-related-crimes then America does... This is also clearly reflective in the histories of immigration policies throughout each nation. America has always enjoyed far greater openess to immigration then Europe has.

no European should ever even bring up this argument... because they've no place.. there is no heterogenous xenophobic place then europe.. America is the bastion of acceptance Europe could never be.. We live as a melting pot accepting other peoples differences, where one of your most intolerable societies (france) forces people to be mroe french, to the point of hiding their religion


Last I heard, and experianced when I was in the US, and when I talk to Americans, the US "melting pot" idology is alot like that stuff France has. The US isn't "the bastion of acceptance", as you put it, because, although America accecpts people into the country, it also tries to make them culturally, socially, and individually American.

You want the true "the bastion of acceptance", go to Canada. Canada has an actual multicultural society where people are encouraged to share their culture and be that culture, not forced to change.

How many times have you been to Europe?

How many times have you been to America?

well.. ive only been there twice, totaling a month of time in europe.. but im political sciencist in trade, now waiting to go to graduate school. My concentration was in European affairs and the EU.. and ive studied in depth the histories and demographics of the major nations being britian, german, france, italy, austria, the benelux countries... as a whole Europe suffers far more instances of intolerance/race-related-crimes then America does... This is also clearly reflective in the histories of immigration policies throughout each nation. America has always enjoyed far greater openess to immigration then Europe has.

I would say that America has far better immigration policies, but I'll remind you that a SMALL minority of you still don white hoods and set fire to the new immigrants on occasion.

On a more serious note, I can't speak for any other countries, but America is a far more tolerant society that Britain has ever been

I would say that America has far better immigration policies, but I'll remind you that a SMALL minority of you still don white hoods and set fire to the new immigrants on occasion.

I think you misunderstood your American History they set fire to Crosses not people.

I don't like xenophobia - what I do like though, is isolationist foreign policy (something few people advocate nowadays); simply not to interfere with the rest of the world, no matter how shitty it gets

My brother shares your view, however it is difficult to have a policy of isolation when you use the products of other countries so much. Gotta cut down on the consumption of foreign goods if you want to isolate yourself.

I would say that America has far better immigration policies, but I'll remind you that a SMALL minority of you still don white hoods and set fire to the new immigrants on occasion.

On a more serious note, I can't speak for any other countries, but America is a far more tolerant society that Britain has ever been


Yes, I agree with you completely, Britain having abolished and combatted slavery before the US is obviously less tolerant. Add influxes of ethnic and racial minorities in the 60's, we're obviously so.

Don't start pointing fingers with that kinda crap. The US was no angel in the realms of racial acceptance, not to say that Britain was, but naja.

I beleive that many americans would like to create an inward looking philosophy, at least with regard to nations that it doesn't border on. World War 2 is a prime example of this (historically). One of the reasons the US did not want to enter world war 2 was that many americans felt that it simply wasn't their problem, quite an understandable view to take. However, owing to the onset of the cold war and the US's eventual involvement in world war 2, I think its safe to assume that this is not an attitude that is very prevalent there today.

As for Xenophobia, I think you really have to be more specific. If it comes to muslims, I would say that the majority of americans do have a fear of muslims. I recall reading an article linked on fark.com over how a fairly large proportion of americans would like a national register of muslims for anti-terrorist purposes. All I could think of when I read it was Mcarthyist red purges of the 50's, not to say that's what people are after, but alarm bells started ringing. Anyhow, yes, I don't beleive that americans are xenophobic, as previous posters have stated the US is a big place, why go to france for a holliday when you can do somewhere like VA for the summer. Everyone speaks your language, you get the food you like and brilliant weather. All in all, a lot cheaper than a transatlantic flight if less culturally enlightening, but hey, I'm british and I go to scotland for hollidays (sometimes) :p

This is not an excuse but it is an explaination of sorts.

Those of you who live in Europe - if you all drove say 10 hours from your home - I think most of you would have crossed atleast a couple of countries.

I on the other hand by virtue of living close to a border would have crossed into just one ( and that would be either Mexico or Canada ) There are many, many Americans that if they drove 10 hours might have just crossed a couple of state lines.

You all have much easier access to other countries, languages and cultures than we do. Australia is about the same size as the US, and being an island it's even more isolated, but I think that in general there is less ignorance about the rest of the world here than there is in the US. I think that it has more to do with the US being such a dominant cultural force, and the fact that because it is the most powerful nation on earth, the US has less need to look outwards to other countries for assistance than smaller, less significant countries like my own.

well.. ive only been there twice, totaling a month of time in europe.. but im political sciencist in trade, now waiting to go to graduate school. My concentration was in European affairs and the EU.. and ive studied in depth the histories and demographics of the major nations being britian, german, france, italy, austria, the benelux countries... as a whole Europe suffers far more instances of intolerance/race-related-crimes then America does... This is also clearly reflective in the histories of immigration policies throughout each nation. America has always enjoyed far greater openess to immigration then Europe has.


Sorry, but studying history does not equate to a true understanding of a society. Neither does being there for a month. I think you'd need rather more to go on before making such absurd generalisations as "America is the bastion of acceptance Europe could never be".

How many times have you been to America?

About 20. Even then I wouldn't feel qualified to comment decisively on US society since I've never lived there for an extended period.

This was an unanticipated result of colonialism in Britain as well.

Just a minor point but the initial, and largest, batch of immigration to the UK was invited by the government in the 50s.