NationStates Jolt Archive

The US pledged to the victims of the tsunami about the same amount of money it spends daily on its occupation of Iraq, it is less than the $US40 million it is spending on George Bush's forthcoming inauguration party.

Got to love those priorities.

The US Congress gave $US7 billion in aid to Florida after Hurricane Jeanne left six in the US dead and tens of thousands homeless. Congress also gave $US3.1 billion in aid after Hurricane Charley hit the pivotal electoral state of Florida. In total, more than $14 billion was given in aid to US voters after four hurricanes hit their state during an election year.

Now, could somebody please explain why this makes the US a generous nation?

The US pledged to the victims of the tsunami about the same amount of money it spends daily on its occupation of Iraq, it is less than the $US40 million it is spending on George Bush's forthcoming inauguration party.

Got to love those priorities.

The US Congress gave $US7 billion in aid to Florida after Hurricane Jeanne left six in the US dead and tens of thousands homeless. Congress also gave $US3.1 billion in aid after Hurricane Charley hit the pivotal electoral state of Florida. In total, more than $14 billion was given in aid to US voters after four hurricanes hit their state during an election year.

Now, could somebody please explain why this makes the US a generous nation?
Question ... how long did it take them to scare up the 14 bilion ... 3 months? more

How long have they had to scare up funding for this? has anyone had a chance to vote on an advanced support package?

Are you including money spent moving resources such as food and watter ... not to mention the aircraft carier battle group sent to help?

Because the $40 million is a start, not a final sum. In the end, the US will probably danate a few billion. You have to understand that Bush himself can not donate money himself and that it will take Congress to give more. But Congress is busy right now with the change of Senators and Representatives and they are not even in session. Plus, Congress is slow already.

Congress did give all that money to Florida to help rebuilding...

Now remind me. Is Congress in session now?

wow...u've got to love those craaaaazy Americans, well their politicians at least!

Because the $40 million is a start, not a final sum. In the end, the US will probably danate a few billion. You have to understand that Bush himself can not donate money himself and that it will take Congress to give more. But Congress is busy right now with the change of Senators and Representatives. Plus, Congress is slow already.
I know I mean I am not making excuses for our low per capata donation average but in this case people are jumping in with both feet when there just has not been enough time to vote on it in the united states ... (not the way the government is setup)
35 mil from the hip with no preperation or moving of funds really

Really compare it to pocket cash

Someone looses there house and begs you for money being a nice person you give them whatever you have on hand so they can get a meal and some place warm while you go to the bank and scare up more funds for that poor person.

Congress did give all that money to Florida to help rebuilding...

Now remind me. Is Congress in session now?
I do not believe so matter of fact (not unless they are already in for an emergency session ... if not already they will be soon)

Congress did give all that money to Florida to help rebuilding...

Now remind me. Is Congress in session now?

No. Congress will be back in session on January 4th.

http://www.senate.gov/

No. Congress will be back in session on January 4th.

http://www.senate.gov/
With how things are going maybe they will call an emergency early meet

Also, I've been led to believe that 15 of the 35 millions is a loan. Is that right?

Can someone enlighten me: is this standard practice? Do you just go around and say, 2 years later, that you're forgetting the loan, effectively going through legal hoops to give?

Also, I've been led to believe that 15 of the 35 millions is a loan. Is that right?

Can someone enlighten me: is this standard practice? Do you just go around and say, 2 years later, that you're forgetting the loan, effectively going through legal hoops to give?
knowing things as they are it probably was the only thing to "Extend" the amount without congress being in session right now (and think it was 20 mil)

With how things are going maybe they will call an emergency early meet

Only the President can do that i think

knowing things as they are it probably was the only thing to "Extend" the amount without congress being in session right now (and think it was 20 mil)
Yeah, that's what I figured...

Also, I've been led to believe that 15 of the 35 millions is a loan. Is that right?

Can someone enlighten me: is this standard practice? Do you just go around and say, 2 years later, that you're forgetting the loan, effectively going through legal hoops to give?

I think your being mis informed! I don't think it is a loan!

With how things are going maybe they will call an emergency early meet
From what I know, it wouldn't be an early meet. It would be a late meet with the old congress. Nobody has the right to sit in congress before they are sworn in.

It would be what they call a lame duck session.

From what I know, it wouldn't be an early meet. It would be a late meet with the old congress. Nobody has the right to sit in congress before they are sworn in.

It would be what they call a lame duck session.

Lame Duck session is over. Only the president can call Congress back together when it isn't in session!

The US pledged to the victims of the tsunami about the same amount of money it spends daily on its occupation of Iraq, it is less than the $US40 million it is spending on George Bush's forthcoming inauguration party.

Got to love those priorities.

The US Congress gave $US7 billion in aid to Florida after Hurricane Jeanne left six in the US dead and tens of thousands homeless. Congress also gave $US3.1 billion in aid after Hurricane Charley hit the pivotal electoral state of Florida. In total, more than $14 billion was given in aid to US voters after four hurricanes hit their state during an election year.

Now, could somebody please explain why this makes the US a generous nation?

Thats almost accurate- the 7 billion was requested for SEVERAL southern states as well as Haiti, PR and Dominican Republicand was due to SEVERAL storms. It wasnt just Hurricane Jeanne and it wasnt just for FLorida.

Lame Duck session is over. Only the president can call Congress back together when it isn't in session!
Then it could happen ... just saying with pressure to get money out as it is he might decide to

Its Americas money, most of it should be spent on America. Not another country, thats part of the reason Americas so far in debt. I like to know how many countries have paid us back. Also these stupid little common wealths like Puerto Rico need to go. Become a state pay taxes like the rest of America or start your own country and stop wasting our money.

Man, you can use statistics to prove anything. 88% of people know that.

Its Americas money, most of it should be spent on America. Not another country, thats part of the reason Americas so far in debt. I like to know how many countries have paid us back. Also these stupid little common wealths like Puerto Rico need to go. Become a state pay taxes like the rest of America or start your own country and stop wasting our money.

Your compassion and generosity is inspirational.

Unfortunately, of course, your outburst of such obviously righteous indignation is not addressed to the issue at hand.

I am making no claims about what the US should do. I frankly have no way of plumbing the depths of the American conscience.

I am merely commenting on what it has done, by contrast to what is claimed by many posters.

Who gives a flying fuck? It isnt a contest on who gives the most or the fastest. As long international help covers the needs no one should care from where it came.

Lame Duck session is over. Only the president can call Congress back together when it isn't in session!

The term "lame excuse" does come to mind.

The term "lame excuse" does come to mind.

what is that supposed to mean?

Remember to neglect private donations, too.

Who gives a flying fuck? It isnt a contest on who gives the most or the fastest. As long international help covers the needs no one should care from where it came.

yeah what Jester said...and what I've said about 14 times previosuly today. 'cept I didnt say F--- ;)

what is that supposed to mean?
Not sure ... being it is fact and always has been. ehh I am confused too

Lame Duck session is over. Only the president can call Congress back together when it isn't in session!
Still my point is that it would be the old congress that would be called in to vote. Not the new one.

yeah what Jester said...and what I've said about 14 times previosuly today. 'cept I didnt say F--- ;)
There is a limit to what i can stomach of useless bullshit in the face of a tragedy, so forgive my rudeness.

Man, you can use statistics to prove anything. 88% of people know that.
yeah but 96.256789565469 % of people already know that

Are you including money spent moving resources such as food and watter ... not to mention the aircraft carier battle group sent to help?
Bingo, those cost about 3 mil. a day to operate.

Bingo, those cost about 3 mil. a day to operate.
Yikes even higher then I thought :p and I am fairly "up" on navy ... though I am a hardware geek more then an operations one :)

Let me put it this way in an American view:
1st American lives far outweigh foreign lives, so if we were to spend more money to protect American lives then Indonesian lives, more power to us.
2nd If something to this magnitude happened in America, do you think nations such as France and Spain would be donating money? Hell ****ing no, they hate us.
3rd America will give more money later, so why fret about how little we are giving now, did the Indonesians ever do anything for us about 9/11, no.
4th MORE THEN HALF of America chose George Bush to be our president, so whatever his decision is, it goes, tough luck rest of the world, America could give a ****.

Let me put it this way in an American view:
1st American lives far outweigh foreign lives, so if we were to spend more money to protect American lives then Indonesian lives, more power to us.
2nd If something to this magnitude happened in America, do you think nations such as France and Spain would be donating money? Hell ****ing no, they hate us.
3rd America will give more money later, so why fret about how little we are giving now, did the Indonesians ever do anything for us about 9/11, no.
4th MORE THEN HALF of America chose George Bush to be our president, so whatever his decision is, it goes, tough luck rest of the world, America could give a ****.
your going fora highscore on the dumbass'o'meter arnt ya?

Thats the American way of life dumb@$$

America STILL gave out more money than any other nation in the relief effort, twit.

Let me put it this way in an American view:
1st American lives far outweigh foreign lives, so if we were to spend more money to protect American lives then Indonesian lives, more power to us.
2nd If something to this magnitude happened in America, do you think nations such as France and Spain would be donating money? Hell ****ing no, they hate us.
3rd America will give more money later, so why fret about how little we are giving now, did the Indonesians ever do anything for us about 9/11, no.
4th MORE THEN HALF of America chose George Bush to be our president, so whatever his decision is, it goes, tough luck rest of the world, America could give a ****.

I am certain, beyond the shadow of adoubt, that France, Spain and other would be among the first to give. Now they might give less because they're not on good terms but they WILL give.

America STILL gave out more money than any other nation in the relief effort, twit.
huh?

4th MORE THEN HALF of America chose George Bush to be our president, so whatever his decision is, it goes, tough luck rest of the world, America could give a ****.

:rolleyes: Check your own facts - over 44% of Americans DIDN'T vote in the 2004 elections, possibly because they thought neaither candidate was suitable,

:rolleyes: Check your own facts - over 44% of Americans DIDN'T vote in the 2004 elections, possibly because they thought neaither candidate was suitable,

Or were not of voting age or who couldn't vote anyway.

Congress did give all that money to Florida to help rebuilding...

Now remind me. Is Congress in session now?
Congress did give the Florida money, but not until they underwent several weeks of research and debating.

And they are on the recess that is a combination of the post-election laxness and the Holiday season, so Bush's hands in shipping out money are somewhat tied.

Also US people and corporations are donating loads of money as well, for example, so far Bill Gates has given, what, 3 million dollars? Other people and companies are giving similar sums of money as well.

America STILL gave out more money than any other nation in the relief effort, twit.
incorrect britan so far I think wins

Congress did give the Florida money, but not until they underwent several weeks of research and debating.

And they are on the recess that is a combination of the post-election laxness and the Holiday season, so Bush's hands in shipping out money are somewhat tied.

Also US people and corporations are donating loads of money as well, for example, so far Bill Gates has given, what, 3 million dollars? Other people and companies are giving similar sums of money as well.
My point EXACTLY!

I already shot down that Florida thing the original poster said. :rolleyes:

UT you missed my reply to you on the feminism thread.

I'm off to inspect all the salvation army bell ringer buckets to see which shopping center patrons are donating the most amount of money this year. <oozes with sarcasm>

:fluffle: to all

incorrect britan so far I think wins
In terms of country, yes. However the world bank is the leader with 250 millions.

I'm off to inspect all the salvation army bell ringer buckets to see which shopping centers are donating the most amount of money this year. <oozes with sarcasm>

:fluffle: to all
You get the prestigous Los Banditos Thumbs Up Award for this remark. Well done.

You get the prestigous Los Banditos Thumbs Up Award for this remark. Well done.

thanks Bandit! ;)

In terms of country, yes. However the world bank is the leader with 250 millions.
Sweet GO SUPPORT! as much as we can give them

Maybe rather then a competition this should be more like a plege drive (I know they are anoying) but on tv ... plegathon sort of style!

What should we give the world bank for participating? cofee mug and a colectors tshirt ?

thanks Bandit! ;)
And you get a big fluffle from me :fluffle:

As far as I can tell those saying the USA is still giving the most are way off in any real sense.
Not a chance if we think in percentage of GDP, and not even cash terms with comparable geographic areas.
As it stands at the minute:

According to one source:
UK $96m (seems unrealistic)
EU $44m
US: $35m
Canada: $33m
Japan: $30m
Australia: $27m
France: $20.4m
Denmark: $15.6m
Saudi Arabia: $10m
Norway: $6.6m
Taiwan: $5.1m
Finland: $3.4m
Kuwait: $2.1m
Netherlands: $2.6m
UAE: $2m
Ireland $1.3m
Singapore: $1.2m

Another says (note now in GB£)
UK:£15m
US:£19.4m
EU:£16.6m
Japan:£16.6m
Australia:£19.4m
Saudi Arabia:£5.5m
Quatar: £5.5m
Canada: £2.2m
China: £1.4m
Germany: £3m

Again, as I posted in a different thread on the same topic...

What is the total amount that America will give, both government, private and businesses? We in the U.S. don't expect the government to do everything for us. There are many businesses and charity organizations raising millions more, including horrible bands like Linkin Park giving $100,000. Just because the government isn't giving a ton doesn't mean that the country as a whole isn't doing a lot

Again, as I posted in a different thread on the same topic...

What is the total amount that America will give, both government, private and businesses? We in the U.S. don't expect the government to do everything for us. There are many businesses and charity organizations raising millions more, including horrible bands like Linkin Park giving $100,000. Just because the government isn't giving a ton doesn't mean that the country as a whole isn't doing a lot
Yes that's all well and good for you. However, the government did give 14 billions to florida and only 35 millions to this. The same charities gave to both disasters. So the only comparables numbers are those of the government as private charities will give to both and the same feeling of generosity of the private sector will be felt in both instances.

Let me put it this way in an American view:
1st American lives far outweigh foreign lives, so if we were to spend more money to protect American lives then Indonesian lives, more power to us.
2nd If something to this magnitude happened in America, do you think nations such as France and Spain would be donating money? Hell ****ing no, they hate us.
3rd America will give more money later, so why fret about how little we are giving now, did the Indonesians ever do anything for us about 9/11, no.
4th MORE THEN HALF of America chose George Bush to be our president, so whatever his decision is, it goes, tough luck rest of the world, America could give a ****.

1. This is true. The USA tends to value it's citizens more than citizens of other countries. A government is in place to protect and organize it's own citizens. This is not to say we don't care....that assumption is pure stupidity.

2. I feel that they would help, in a way. Likely a verbal show of support, maybe a few thousand in relief funds if it's really horrible. They certainly would not send effectively a giant desalination plant (read aircraftcarrier and co.) over to our shores if our population needed clean drinking water to help curb the tide of disease. They don't care that much, and frankly I don't blame them.

3. More money will come via congressional vote and/or private funds. It should always be remembered that the vast majority of charities and foundations that help in circumstances such as this are actually based in the US, and use private funds donated from the heart by willing individuals to help others. Their contributions should never be overlooked or belittled, though holding them accountable is a good thing.

Additional points:
4. Any references to 9/11 to argue our point should cease. It's terrible that I see so many people arguing for the US's side using that tradgedy to gain some fictional moral high-ground in a debate.

The moral high-ground is to be given, not taken...it's like the right of way at an intersection. If everyone tries to take it, you'll likely end up in a nasty collision of interest. Everyone will be pissed off, and you'll be partially responsible for the continuation of the generalizations that so enrage us all.

9/11 hurt us all. There were more than just Americans in those twin towers. Lay off it.

5. Lets say suddenly 4 billion in aid popped out of nowhere and was handed to the indonesians. Could they really put it to effective use while the greatest needs are doctors, shelter, body disposal, and clean water? Do they actually have the infrastructure nearby to help?

Money can do a lot of things...but it can not quench a person's thirst in a wasteland nor can it bring a loved one back from the dead. You can not shower a problem like this with money and make it all better...it just does not work that way. You've got to send in people to help. Right now there's a carrier battlegroup on the way with men, material, and water supplies in addition to 35 million in financial aid (A number that will likely increase but be recieved with no fanfare from the other nations) and our peoples' sympathies.

Yes that's all well and good for you. However, the government did give 14 billions to florida and only 35 millions to this. The same charities gave to both disasters. So the only comparables numbers are those of the government as private charities will give to both and the same feeling of generosity of the private sector will be felt in both instances.

That might be because a government's job is to take care of it's people.
And they had a long time to come up with that money, not just a few days.

That might be because a government's job is to take care of it's people.
And they had a long time to come up with that money, not just a few days.
True, but my point is that using the private sector to say the US is helping a lot is a bad argument for two reasons:

1. They have helped with other disasters and are not really accounted in the corrent tally used in this thread anyway.

2. Like charities don't exist in other countries. If the US get to add it's private sector money in the fray, others should be allowed to use theirs too.

As
UK $96m (seems unrealistic)


UK originally donated £15m (About $29m) but recently upped that to £50m (About $96m). Why is this so hard to believe?

Besides, this is all pretty stupid - a competition of 'Who can donate the most' when all countries have a different amount of money they can afford to donate. I have no doubt the US will eventually donate the most and they'll be hundreds of 'LMAO! AMERICA RULEZ, OTHER COUNTIES SUXOR LOL!!!11oneone!!'

Does it really matter which country donates the most? For those people who are making this a competition, how much have you donated yourself? Or do you just think 'My country is donating the money, therefore I don't have to donate' ?

hard to believe a nation with an economy comparable to that of california can stump up that much cash when the others don't seem to have the political will and/or means to do so.

I think the point of the point scoring is to underline what the governments of the day are doing with respect to this, and to give people an idea on the type of people they have in office, which can be useful come election time, and to give them an idea of what they can expect when another trajedy on this scale happens again.

I'd like to encourage anyone in the UK to send donations to:
DEC Tsunami Earthquake/ IND appeal, PO Box 4420, London, W1T 7QX
Cheques and Postal orders made payable to DEC Tsunami Earthquake.

Let me put it this way in an American view:
1st American lives far outweigh foreign lives, so if we were to spend more money to protect American lives then Indonesian lives, more power to us.
2nd If something to this magnitude happened in America, do you think nations such as France and Spain would be donating money? Hell ****ing no, they hate us.
3rd America will give more money later, so why fret about how little we are giving now, did the Indonesians ever do anything for us about 9/11, no.
4th MORE THEN HALF of America chose George Bush to be our president, so whatever his decision is, it goes, tough luck rest of the world, America could give a ****.

1. To you, maybe. Which makes you an uncaring asshole.
2. Yeah right. They would give money. Anyways, Indonesia and the like need aid money WAY more than you do.
3. Enough about fucking 9/11! Please stop using it to justify everything. Yes, you got attacked by terrorists. So has everyone else. Bet you couldn't name a terrorist attack in Ireland that was (proportionally) as bad as the twin towers... Sorry, but I just needed to vent over this... 9/11 was a horrible thing. But so is this. Oh, and they are on your side... Remember Bali?
4. Wrong. Just over half of the VOTERS picked him... which means, oh about 20% picked him... And the rest? Well, see point one. Once again. Asshole. If you don't care about the rest of the world, you don't deserve to be allowed near it.

A government should care about its citizens, true. But human decency means you should care about others too.
Anyways, its not a competition. $35m is $35 million more to help people. Oh, and as far as I know, Ireland's now up to €2m...

Hear, hear, Sinneal.

True, but my point is that using the private sector to say the US is helping a lot is a bad argument for two reasons:

1. They have helped with other disasters and are not really accounted in the corrent tally used in this thread anyway.

2. Like charities don't exist in other countries. If the US get to add it's private sector money in the fray, others should be allowed to use theirs too.
Only Congress could authorize a big expenditure like what you want. Congress is not in session.

The US pledged to the victims of the tsunami about the same amount of money it spends daily on its occupation of Iraq, it is less than the $US40 million it is spending on George Bush's forthcoming inauguration party.

Got to love those priorities.

The US Congress gave $US7 billion in aid to Florida after Hurricane Jeanne left six in the US dead and tens of thousands homeless. Congress also gave $US3.1 billion in aid after Hurricane Charley hit the pivotal electoral state of Florida. In total, more than $14 billion was given in aid to US voters after four hurricanes hit their state during an election year.

Now, could somebody please explain why this makes the US a generous nation?
I worry about you. No, really ... I do! You have one of the most tenuous grips on reality I have ever seen. Someday, it's going to get you in big, big trouble unless you can correct it. :rolleyes:

I worry about you. No, really ... I do! You have one of the most tenuous grips on reality I have ever seen. Someday, it's going to get you in big, big trouble unless you can correct it. :rolleyes:
What's wrong with his grasp on reality? His figures are pretty damn accurate, and he doesn't even note that $20 million of the $35 million the US has pledged is in the form of a line of credit, according to our very own State Department. So why don't you explain how, if we're able to spend between $30 and $40 million on the coronation--excuse me, inauguration--of George W. Bush (before security costs are factored in), we can't give more than that for the greatest natural disaster in the last fifty years?

What's wrong with his grasp on reality? His figures are pretty damn accurate, and he doesn't even note that $20 million of the $35 million the US has pledged is in the form of a line of credit, according to our very own State Department. So why don't you explain how, if we're able to spend between $30 and $40 million on the coronation--excuse me, inauguration--of George W. Bush (before security costs are factored in), we can't give more than that for the greatest natural disaster in the last fifty years?
Actually, it could be the greatest natural disaster in recorded history, particularly if the projections for the spread of disease are in the ballpark. What's wrong with this reality-challenged individual's perspective is that, as Secretary Powell has been at pains to point out, the initial contribution to disaster relief is only the tip of the iceberg. Stay tuned, oh ye of little faith ... film at eleven! :D

Also, I've been led to believe that 15 of the 35 millions is a loan. Is that right?

Can someone enlighten me: is this standard practice? Do you just go around and say, 2 years later, that you're forgetting the loan, effectively going through legal hoops to give?
There is sufficient precedent for it. The Marshal Plan is a single example. It will be interesting to see at the end of two or so years to see who did what. It will take at least that long to get them somewhere close to up & running again.

Only Congress could authorize a big expenditure like what you want. Congress is not in session.

Thank you for the info. Now, I hope that congress will up the ante like most countries did (Canada went from 4 to 33 mil., France and the UK has upped their share too).

1. To you, maybe. Which makes you an uncaring asshole.
2. Yeah right. They would give money. Anyways, Indonesia and the like need aid money WAY more than you do.
3. Enough about fucking 9/11! Please stop using it to justify everything. Yes, you got attacked by terrorists. So has everyone else. Bet you couldn't name a terrorist attack in Ireland that was (proportionally) as bad as the twin towers... Sorry, but I just needed to vent over this... 9/11 was a horrible thing. But so is this. Oh, and they are on your side... Remember Bali?
4. Wrong. Just over half of the VOTERS picked him... which means, oh about 20% picked him... And the rest? Well, see point one. Once again. Asshole. If you don't care about the rest of the world, you don't deserve to be allowed near it.

A government should care about its citizens, true. But human decency means you should care about others too.
Anyways, its not a competition. $35m is $35 million more to help people. Oh, and as far as I know, Ireland's now up to €2m...

Hear, hear, Sinneal.

1. How does it make him an uncaring asshole? So America helped its citizens over time more than it helped other citizens over a period of a few days...is this logical reasoning?

2. France would never give us money.

3. I agree with you here, 9/11 was a tragedy but should be no justification for anthing.

4. If someone doesn't care enough to go vote, than thats their fucking problem if they don't get a president they like.

I worry about you. No, really ... I do! You have one of the most tenuous grips on reality I have ever seen. Someday, it's going to get you in big, big trouble unless you can correct it. :rolleyes:

My favorite part of your post was when you said "you're crazy" and didn't give any actual ansewr to his post.



And I don't know about the rest of you, but there needs to be some new version of Godwin's Law that says anyone who uses 9/11 in an argument automatically loses.

2. France would never give us money.

Yeah, they haven't helped us with anything! Like our revolutionary war against...wait...ah, fuck, I need to write this stuff down.

That was more than 250 years ago; this is now, after we have saved them twice.

My favorite part of your post was when you said "you're crazy" and didn't give any actual ansewr to his post.

And I don't know about the rest of you, but there needs to be some new version of Godwin's Law that says anyone who uses 9/11 in an argument automatically loses.
Thank you for making my point about your, at best, extremely tenuous grip on reality. I have not called anyone "crazy," not even you. And where, oh where have I ever used 9/11 in a discussion to which it was not relevant? :rolleyes:

The US pledged to the victims of the tsunami about the same amount of money it spends daily on its occupation of Iraq, it is less than the $US40 million it is spending on George Bush's forthcoming inauguration party.

Got to love those priorities.

The US Congress gave $US7 billion in aid to Florida after Hurricane Jeanne left six in the US dead and tens of thousands homeless. Congress also gave $US3.1 billion in aid after Hurricane Charley hit the pivotal electoral state of Florida. In total, more than $14 billion was given in aid to US voters after four hurricanes hit their state during an election year.

Now, could somebody please explain why this makes the US a generous nation?
Because actual AMERICANS, not our leaders, have already donated more than $18 million OUT OF OUR OWN POCKETS. This is one of many Americans who wishes that Bush would pledge more. So enough with your generalizations and start distinguishing between Americans and the American GOVERNMENT.

What's wrong with his grasp on reality? His figures are pretty damn accurate, and he doesn't even note that $20 million of the $35 million the US has pledged is in the form of a line of credit, according to our very own State Department. So why don't you explain how, if we're able to spend between $30 and $40 million on the coronation--excuse me, inauguration--of George W. Bush (before security costs are factored in), we can't give more than that for the greatest natural disaster in the last fifty years?
No, GEORGE BUSH can't give more than that. I'd be more than happy to see the figure increase tenfold!

Thank you for making my point about your, at best, extremely tenuous grip on reality. I have not called anyone "crazy," not even you. And where, oh where have I ever used 9/11 in a discussion to which it was not relevant? :rolleyes:

First of all, I apparently mistranslated you as saying "crazy" instead of "tenous grip on reality." What I SHOULD have said was "practically crazy." Sorry, I forgot how large of a difference there was. Nonetheless, you didn't respond to his post, you simply insulted him and left it at that. Though really, I don't know what else I should expect from you. At least Corn, the guy who ends ever sentance with an exclamation point, tries to bring up actual points.

And secondly, I'd like you to note the multiple spacing between my first and second posts. The second post wasn't even aimed at you. Though I can see how you could make that mi-well, ok. I can't see how you could make that mistake at all, unless you were activily looking for anything that sounded remotely insulting towards you.


That was more than 250 years ago; this is now, after we have saved them twice.
You made the claim that they would never give us money. You aare and were incorrect. Please retract your statement.

Furthermore, saying we saved them twice is a tenuous hold at best. Many people who study both World Wars are split over how strong America's contribution really was at times; most agree that it was more our equipment that aided then our troops.

1. How does it make him an uncaring asshole? So America helped its citizens over time more than it helped other citizens over a period of a few days...is this logical reasoning?

2. France would never give us money.

3. I agree with you here, 9/11 was a tragedy but should be no justification for anthing.

4. If someone doesn't care enough to go vote, than thats their fucking problem if they don't get a president they like.

1. "American lives outweigh foreign lives." That's what I take issue with. To say that one person you don't know is worth less than another you don't know is pretty uncaring, to my mind at least. Especially when these people are suffering. Also damn arrogant.

2. I'd say they would, if you needed it. Chirac was the first person to send you a message of condolence, if i remember rightly...

4. Was just taking issue with the number, not who got in. Plus, I could bring in the possibility of election fraud... I don't trust electronic voting. But that's a totally different topic, and if you want to discuss it, we shall have to move to PMs or another thread.

I would like to offer my condolences to all those affected by the earthquake disaster.

EDIT: To my eyes, WWI was barely affected by the Americans joining. Maybe cut a few weeks\months off the war, but the Germans were already screwed by then...
WWII: The Nazis would have lost without American intervention. But France would be speaking Russian right now... So you could claim that as saving them, all right. Unless you think that would be good...

I won't retract my statement, I said they would not give us money, as in will never, as in the future.

When did donating to disaster relief funds become a big dick contest?

When did donating to disaster relief funds become a big dick contest?

all day dear......all friggin day :rolleyes:

Someones got to say this, what do dead people need help with? They dont need to rebuild thier homes. They're dead! Theres just the cleanup, to let new people move in and build. Florida, the people wernt killed, thier homes were wiped out. They were given money to rebuild with.

Not trying to be the bad guy, just stateing the obvious. And I have donated to the Red Cross to help out.

I won't retract my statement, I said they would not give us money, as in will never, as in the future.

Holy shit, guys, we got fucking Nostradamus here! Give us another prediction! Oh, I know, make one about aliens comming and kidnapping someone. Sice you predicted it, it's BOUND to come true! Wait, now, make that Russia. Make a prediction about Russia attacking us. We stilll have them, right?

Xenophobic idiot...




When did donating to disaster relief funds become a big dick contest?

What gets me is how many people are trying to brag about what their countries have donated, and none of them mention if THEY'VE donated anything...

First of all, I apparently mistranslated you as saying "crazy" instead of "tenous grip on reality." What I SHOULD have said was "practically crazy." Sorry, I forgot how large of a difference there was. Nonetheless, you didn't respond to his post, you simply insulted him and left it at that. Though really, I don't know what else I should expect from you. At least Corn, the guy who ends ever sentance with an exclamation point, tries to bring up actual points.

And secondly, I'd like you to note the multiple spacing between my first and second posts. The second post wasn't even aimed at you. Though I can see how you could make that mi-well, ok. I can't see how you could make that mistake at all, unless you were activily looking for anything that sounded remotely insulting towards you.
Selective reading of posts, or just selective memory loss on your part: "Actually, it could be the greatest natural disaster in recorded history, particularly if the projections for the spread of disease are in the ballpark. What's wrong with this reality-challenged individual's perspective is that, as Secretary Powell has been at pains to point out, the initial contribution to disaster relief is only the tip of the iceberg. Stay tuned, oh ye of little faith ... film at eleven!" ( about five or six posts above your last one ).

Oh ... and please forgive me for not understanding that making several spaces between paragraphs in your posts means that you are responding to multiple posts by multiple posters. Actually, I strongly suspect that the standard way of indication that you are responding to another poster is to actually ... you know ... quote them. :D

Holy shit, guys, we got fucking Nostradamus here! Give us another prediction! Oh, I know, make one about aliens comming and kidnapping someone. Sice you predicted it, it's BOUND to come true! Wait, now, make that Russia. Make a prediction about Russia attacking us. We stilll have them, right?

Xenophobic idiot...

Oh yes, I fear foreigners because I think the french hate us enough to not give us money. Gawd, yer the idiot here.

Selective reading of posts, or just selective memory loss on your part: "Actually, it could be the greatest natural disaster in recorded history, particularly if the projections for the spread of disease are in the ballpark. What's wrong with this reality-challenged individual's perspective is that, as Secretary Powell has been at pains to point out, the initial contribution to disaster relief is only the tip of the iceberg. Stay tuned, oh ye of little faith ... film at eleven!" ( about five or six posts above your last one ).
Actually, go up a bit. You see, I quoted a different post-the post in which you directly-and ONLY-said that he had a tenous hold on reality. That is all you said. LATER, you added more to it.


Oh ... and please forgive me for not understanding that making several spaces between paragraphs in your posts means that you are responding to multiple posts by multiple posters. Actually, I strongly suspect that the standard way of indication that you are responding to another poster is to actually ... you know ... quote them. :D
That's all well and good, only multiple people have brought it up. Oh, and you're very forgiven ;)




Oh yes, I fear foreigners because I think the french hate us enough to not give us money. Gawd, yer the idiot here.
You think the French will never, ever, for the rest of their entire existance, NEVER give money to the US. Centuries from now France will STILL have not given us any money...

...and I'M the fool?

Someones got to say this, what do dead people need help with? They dont need to rebuild thier homes. They're dead! Theres just the cleanup, to let new people move in and build. Florida, the people wernt killed, thier homes were wiped out. They were given money to rebuild with.

Not trying to be the bad guy, just stateing the obvious. And I have donated to the Red Cross to help out.
Well, I've just watched the news and it seems there are many homeless persons who need shelder and houses rebuilt.

These people, in the meantime need water, food and shelter.

Also there's the problem of the removing of said corpses and we need to stop disease from spreading...

You're not looking at the entire picture.

Someones got to say this, what do dead people need help with? They dont need to rebuild thier homes. They're dead! Theres just the cleanup, to let new people move in and build. Florida, the people wernt killed, thier homes were wiped out. They were given money to rebuild with.

Not trying to be the bad guy, just stateing the obvious. And I have donated to the Red Cross to help out.

2 million are homeless. Not everyone who was affected was killed. Besides, they need aid to dispose of bodies.

Yes that's all well and good for you. However, the government did give 14 billions to florida and only 35 millions to this. The same charities gave to both disasters. So the only comparables numbers are those of the government as private charities will give to both and the same feeling of generosity of the private sector will be felt in both instances.
You seem to want to ignore some of the statements explaining the short term situation. The president cannot spend money not authorized by Congress. Money budgeted to FEMA , etc. is already authorized by Congress. Additional monies spent following the hurricanes was authorized by Congress.. Congress is not in session and while Bush may yet call the existing Congress back into emergencey session, that is unlikely since disposed members have already disbanded or are in the process of disbanding their offices. Still, it is an extraordinary situation and it could happen. The new Congress will soon be sworn in and take their seats. Then the longer term spending can be addressed.

Although I am no fan of the sitting president, he is doing what he can with what he has at the moment.It's been all of four days. Let's see what the US expends on this in the next four years. Then we can have something worthy of discussion when it comes to Bush's record.

When did donating to disaster relief funds become a big dick contest?
It shouldn't be a big dick contest, but some people take anything said by anyone remotely associated with the UN as an insult, and so this thread--along with most of the others on this topic--has degenerated into a big dick contest.

You seem to want to ignore some of the statements explaining the short term situation. The president cannot spend money not authorized by Congress. Money budgeted to FEMA , etc. is already authorized by Congress. Additional monies spent following the hurricanes was authorized by Congress.. Congress is not in session and while Bush may yet call the existing Congress back into emergencey session, that is unlikely since disposed members have already disbanded or are in the process of disbanding their offices. Still, it is an extraordinary situation and it could happen. The new Congress will soon be sworn in and take their seats. Then the longer term spending can be addressed.

Although I am no fan of the sitting president, he is doing what he can with what he has at the moment.It's been all of four days. Let's see what the US expends on this in the next four years. Then we can have something worthy of discussion when it comes to Bush's record.

I'm with you SHL. The statement you quote was in response to someone using private charities to say that the US was doing enough as it is. I was playing Devil's Advocate.

You can see I'm sincere from all my posts in the thread.

What's wrong with his grasp on reality? His figures are pretty damn accurate, and he doesn't even note that $20 million of the $35 million the US has pledged is in the form of a line of credit, according to our very own State Department. So why don't you explain how, if we're able to spend between $30 and $40 million on the coronation--excuse me, inauguration--of George W. Bush (before security costs are factored in), we can't give more than that for the greatest natural disaster in the last fifty years?
Your point is pointless. The inauguration is paid for with private donations, not government funds.

People forget that while the US is probably going to end up donating around 2-3 billion to the cause, that some of the largest organizations going to help these people one on one are from the US as well.

Northwest Medical Teams and Mercy Corps are sending more people over to help these people get some sort of normalcy back to their lives. They have broken records for donations in the past 2-3 days, and is working hard to get people over.

That treatment, right there, is also worth something. Something that cannot be given in dollars.

I think everyone who wants to make this a pissing contest should sit down and think for a few moments about doing something to help them, rather than to rag on those who give something.

youre a fucking idiot
would you donate a million dollars to a charity without knowing where the money goes?

we have to first asess the damage and see where money needs to be spent before we go and give billions of dollars

I can't believe how many gormless fuckwits there are on this.

The US gives the most in aid in dollar terms, but the LOWEST in percentage of GDP. This is all up, not just this situation. Only 0.1% of the US GDP which is the lowest of all western capitalist countries.

My favorite part of your post was when you said "you're crazy" and didn't give any actual ansewr to his post.



And I don't know about the rest of you, but there needs to be some new version of Godwin's Law that says anyone who uses 9/11 in an argument automatically loses.
I couldn't agree more. First, one is political and the second natural. Second, the loss of life from the tsunami is about forty times greater as of this writing. The only thing they share in common is that they were sudden. Those of you who know me know I was there for 9-11 in NYC. That was a birthday party compared to this.

youre a fucking idiot
would you donate a million dollars to a charity without knowing where the money goes?

we have to first asess the damage and see where money needs to be spent before we go and give billions of dollars

You know, there ARE trusted charities out there you can donate to.

You don't have to mail the money right to the counry itself.

Why are there so many comparisons to the inaugeration? Clinton's second cost $41.7 million

Uh, this disaster has no bearing on the US whatsoever, so why the hell are we wasting our money on it when we need it so badly here at home?

(Deleted the irrelevent but humorous comment)

What gets me is how many people are trying to brag about what their countries have donated, and none of them mention if THEY'VE donated anything...
WHile I have expressed confidence that in the course of time the US will come back with long term aid of a much more significant amount than is currently available I, for one, am hardly swinging big meat on the issue. As for private contributions it is generally unbecoming to speak on that. I have made initial contributions to Doctors Without Borders and to the IRC/RC but that is really beside the point.

What I think would be great is when school is back in session that each student be encouraged to donate a nickle each. If that was done in NYC alone, it would raise well over $100,000 and more importantly it would help instill an awareness that we are members of a global community.

I'm with you SHL. The statement you quote was in response to someone using private charities to say that the US was doing enough as it is. I was playing Devil's Advocate.

You can see I'm sincere from all my posts in the thread.
Gotcha! Peace Bro. :cool:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...?hub=TopStories

$40 million trumps $35 million (last I heard it was that much from the USA anyway -will google for update. Compare the relative values of their dollars and the size of their economies and Canada is giving much more.)


I only found a pledge by the US to give more than the current $35 million. No updates thus far.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...?hub=TopStories

$40 million trumps $35 million (last I heard it was that much from the USA anyway -will google for update. Compare the relative values of their dollars and the size of their economies and Canada is giving much more.)


I only found a pledge by the US to give more than the current $35 million. No updates thus far.
:rolleyes:

Im missing something.

How the hell a carrier battle group is going to help those people? Blowing them to hell to finish the job of the waves? lol.

Uh, this disaster has no bearing on the US whatsoever, so why the hell are we wasting our money on it when we need it so badly here at home?
Yay!!!! :fluffle:

Im missing something.

How the hell a carrier battle group is going to help those people? Blowing them to hell to finish the job of the waves? lol.

Ummm:
1st:Give shelter to those missing a home.
2nd:Allow Indonesian police to use marines as security to stop looters.
3rd:Bring over the C-12s that are carrying supplies from the US.

I think your being mis informed! I don't think it is a loan!
It is a loan. It's an 'emergency line of credit'. Therefore the US will want it paid back. Also when several European Countries (among them France and Germany) mentioned debt relief for the worst affected countries as a way of helping, the US was extremely luke-warm on the idea. Their only reply so far has been to call the idea 'interesting'.
So not really that generous I'd say.

Also, I find it pretty sad really that some posters have to resort to saying 'what about private donations? Count those! Then we'll see the US gives more'.
As if no-one else in the entire World is giving anything out of their own pocket. :rolleyes:

And to the French-bashers out there, the two countries that were the first to send supplies were Australia and France. And France is sending $20.4mill, not $136000 that ppl seem to aways mention. Where did that figure come from anyway?
And now Spain is sending $68 mill. So they're twice as nice as the US. :)

So how about this: Bush pledges that as soon as Congress is sworn in, he calls them into session to ask for "at least [insert lots of money here]". That would be a far more specific pledge than just assuring us that the $35 million is only an initial amount. What bugs me, though, is Bam, Iran. Anyone remember that? An earthquake happened there that killed 30,000 and totally levelled the city about this time last year. Millions upon millions of dollars were promised from the world community, but they're still living in plastic tents because the money hasn't come through. Hopefully this current disaster won't be a repeat of that appalling "oversight", and hopefully someone will wake up and remember to sign the check they promised.

current list of aid (from BBC):

World Bank $250m
UK $96m
EU $44m
US: $35m
Canada: $33m
Japan: $30m
Australia: $27m
France: $20.4m
Denmark: $15.6m
Saudi Arabia: $10m

good to see so many countries chipping in, and im not going to say one is better than the other for giving more, thats stupid, every little helps

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...?hub=TopStories

$40 million trumps $35 million (last I heard it was that much from the USA anyway -will google for update. Compare the relative values of their dollars and the size of their economies and Canada is giving much more.)


I only found a pledge by the US to give more than the current $35 million. No updates thus far.
Dude, 40 millions $CAN is not more than 35 millions $US. While the number is bigger, when compared, Canada's donation is smaller (being worth around 33 millions $US).

Why doesn't anyone remember poor little socialist Spain? The pinkos over there are giving $68 million, but I guess that doesn't count because they're not capitalist? :rolleyes:

The death toll is rising, millions of people have lost their homes and loved ones, and all it seems like people want to do is bash the American contribution to the relief effort. We've sent transport aircraft loaded with supplies, recon aircraft that are surveying the devastation, an aircraft carrier is en-route along with several vessels capable of producing 90,000 gallons of fresh water per day. And this is in addition to a financial aid package that will likely grow to many times the $35 million you all are so fond of sneering at.

I love how you ignorant americans manage to give the rest of us a bad rep, the current amount of aid in USD is over 250 million, anyone who disagrees, look everywhere.

I would just like to ask what relief did America get when it was partially flooded earlier this year??

I can't believe how many gormless fuckwits there are on this.

The US gives the most in aid in dollar terms, but the LOWEST in percentage of GDP. This is all up, not just this situation. Only 0.1% of the US GDP which is the lowest of all western capitalist countries.
True, but as a percentage of revenue collected by the government we are in the top ten. Add that to the private charities and any work we send the military to do and you would find we are not nearly as stingy as you seem to think.

Or were not of voting age or who couldn't vote anyway.

No, this is out of people who are of voting age.

What I've read is that the U.S. has donated 35 million dollars. The US has more than a hundred million citizens. Sweden, on the other hand, has donated 500 million SEK, aproximatly the same amount in dollars! Sweden has 9 million citizens. Explain that!

Uh, this disaster has no bearing on the US whatsoever, so why the hell are we wasting our money on it when we need it so badly here at home?

Yes, because the world's worst natural disaster of the past fifty years occurred in America... THERE ARE AT LEAST 125,000 PEOPLE DEAD!!! Actual people who, five days ago, were ALIVE. And if they do not get the 2m homeless into shelters, and clean up the (possibly) hundreds of thousands of bodies, there will be many, many more deaths, from disease and the like.
What you said makes me HATE you, and I will not apologise for that. You do not care about others. How can you say that because it doesn't affect you, you shouldn't care? Callous, uncaring, ASSHOLE! People like you make me furious. If you need money so badly at home, why not take a few billions out of your fucking OBSCENE military budget and spend it on what needs to be taken care of? Yes, I am pissed. Very very pissed.
Today, I am going to to give money to... whatever appeal I can find for this disaster. I haven't been out of the house since Stephen's Day, so I haven't had the chance before. I urge anyone with a heart to do so to, and stop this little pissing competition. "Ooh, we gave more per capita!" "Yeah? Well we gave more per area of land..." Who cares? People have died. More WILL die, if we don't help.

No, this is out of people who are of voting age.

Fine! If 44% of Americans didn't vote, it still leaves 56% of those that did and Bush got 51% of those!