NationStates Jolt Archive

This question might sound a bit strange to some, but how many of you have read the whole Bible from cover to cover?

I've once looked at the covers. Both of them. Do I get points for that?

I have read all of the New Testament and am currently working on the Old Testament. Read through Genesis and Exodus so far.

Yes I have, that's how I know it's a lie.

Although I am an Atheist I am interested in religion and have read parts of the bible but I don't intend to ever read all of it.

Twice, cover to cover. To be kind, it suffers from a nonexistant plot, characters are painfully two-dimensional, and sex and violence are used unnecessarily.
It's contradictory and full of filler.
If it were written today, any critic would give it a failing grade.

I did that once in middle school with the New International Version, but I doubt I've retained more than half of it. (I attended a Baptist middle school although I'm pagan. It was because my zoned school had a drug/violence problem and I was already strongly disliked..kind of a 3-year hiatus from the hatred I was accustomed to..supposedly.)

My pastor made me read Genesis a few weeks ago for confirmation class. I think i got up to like Noahs ark or sumthin.

Twice, cover to cover. To be kind, it suffers from a nonexistant plot, characters are painfully two-dimensional, and sex and violence are used unnecessarily.
It's contradictory and full of filler.
If it were written today, any critic would give it a failing grade.
New York Times bestseller though.

Don't plan to.

many times, have some of it committed to memory

New York Times bestseller though.

So is "Jon Stewart Presents America (The Book): A Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction" what's your point? *LOL* :D

So is "Jon Stewart Presents America (The Book): A Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction" what's your point? *LOL* :D

Well, the Library of Congress classified the Bible has non-fiction....

Read it all and I dare say Numbers is by far the boring part. Granted he produced him and he had him is boring in its droning tone, but at least its not too much numbers.

I read it all, but remember vague parts of it all. Need to read again I think,.

Not cover to cover. Last week I was reading Leviticus for laughs. Does anyone actually follow that stuff?

"My, my, what a thumping good read. Lions eating Christians, people nailing each other to two by fours. I'll say, you won't find that in Winnie the Pooh." -Stewie Griffin

Well, the Library of Congress classified the Bible has non-fiction....

Then they were wrong, weren't they as it's next to impossible to read that book and take it literally, you'd have to be on some serious drugs to believe it literally. I mean have you read it? haha.

Well, the Library of Congress classified the Bible has non-fiction....

along with every other religious text, most likely.


I just remembered something funny,though.

The mall bookstore in Milledgeville (where I attend college) is set up rather amusingly. The SAT/standardized test help books are right between the metaphysical section and the Bibles. It's like "if one doesn't help, try the other two",lol

So is "Jon Stewart Presents America (The Book): A Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction" what's your point? *LOL* :D
I didn't have a point. Just thought I would add that to the discussion on plot and characters.

Then they were wrong, weren't they as it's next to impossible to read that book and take it literally, you'd have to be on some serious drugs to believe it literally. I mean have you read it? haha.
I believe all religious books are classified that way.

Then they were wrong, weren't they as it's next to impossible to read that book and take it literally, you'd have to be on some serious drugs to believe it literally. I mean have you read it? haha.

The President says the Bible is true...

The President says the Bible is true...

Well then! If Bush says it's true, you know it's not.. ;)

The President says the Bible is true...

The President waved to Stevie Wonder. I don't think highly of his judgement. :p

The most exciting part was when Noah's ship was attacked by four U-boats and he single handedly destroyed them by rolling depth charges of the side himself.

But by far, the best part was when Jesus flew a jet fighter into the middle of Pontius Pilate's "base", steps out and pulls out an .50 Caliber machine gun and kills all the guards, then walks up to Pilate and's all like, "Party's over." and bam.

The most exciting part was when Noah's ship was attacked by four U-boats and he single handedly destroyed them by rolling depth charges of the side himself.

But by far, the best part was when Jesus flew a jet fighter into the middle of Pontius Pilate's "base", steps out and pulls out an .50 Caliber machine gun and kills all the guards, then walks up to Pilate and's all like, "Party's over." and bam.

http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/crazy/071.gif

I'm amazed at the number of people who proclaim, without embarrassment, "look at me, I'm a cultural illiterate and plan to stay that way!"

The Jewish Tanakh, or Old Testament to Christians, and the Christian New Testament are fundamental pillars of Western Culture. One can have no real understanding of literature, theatre, film, or the arts without an understanding of the Jewish and Christian Bibles. Their themes and allusions are woven so tightly into the very fabric of Western society that anyone unfamiliar with the original source will never truly comprehend Western culture.

One does not have to be a person of faith to recognize these books are hugely important.

The most exciting part was when Noah's ship was attacked by four U-boats and he single handedly destroyed them by rolling depth charges of the side himself.

But by far, the best part was when Jesus flew a jet fighter into the middle of Pontius Pilate's "base", steps out and pulls out an .50 Caliber machine gun and kills all the guards, then walks up to Pilate and's all like, "Party's over." and bam.
You forgot about when Jesus and Moses team up to have a kung fu fight against Satan.

Well then! If Bush says it's true, you know it's not.. ;)
But he talks to God.

You forgot about when Jesus and Moses team up to have a kung fu fight against Satan.

I just read the Bible for the love scenes

You forgot about when Jesus and Moses team up to have a kung fu fight against Satan.
They don't stand a chance.

I'm amazed at the number of people who proclaim, without embarrassment, "look at me, I'm a cultural illiterate and plan to stay that way!"

The Jewish Tanakh, or Old Testament to Christians, and the Christian New Testament are fundamental pillars of Western Culture. One can have no real understanding of literature, theatre, film, or the arts without an understanding of the Jewish and Christian Bibles. Their themes and allusions are woven so tightly into the very fabric of Western society that anyone unfamiliar with the original source will never truly comprehend Western culture.

One does not have to be a person of faith to recognize these books are hugely important.

I don't per se disagree with what you have said here, any more than I realize that the whole of society is socially conditioned from birth to believe whatever it is they believe in whatever part of the world you may be born. The difference is just that, knowing the difference. I can't stop the fact that I have been socially conditioned, it happened. However, I can be aware of it. In that awareness I can see through the bullshit, or at least try!

They don't stand a chance.
It was a great fight that provides a great climax to the story. I don't want to ruin it but I was kind of disappointed by the deus ex machina :)

Too boring.

This is actually kind of interesting..

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/


yeah, I finally got off my ass and googled something...well, yahoo'd....

This question might sound a bit strange to some, but how many of you have read the whole Bible from cover to cover?
I've read it five times ( as I recall ) from cover to cover, and was required to memorize great swaths of it.

I've read about 80% of the Old Testament and basically nothing in the New Testament.

No, but it wouldn't change my mind about religion. I don't care if it's the quran or the bible, it won't change my mind, it would just further my education.

So is "Jon Stewart Presents America (The Book): A Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction" what's your point? *LOL* :D

I warn you, say what you will about the Bible/Torah/Qu'ran and religion in general, but always show the utmost respect for Jon Stewart's comedic gold.

And no, I haven't read the whole thing. I read Revelations, Genesis, Exodus; the interesting bits. I had to read the Book of Job for English class, then write an essay comparing it to "J.B." a modern retelling by A. MacLeish. "J.B." is much better in my opinion.

Of course. Song of Songs is the best book.
1 How beautiful you are, my darling!
Oh, how beautiful!

Your eyes behind your veil are doves.

Your hair is like a flock of goats

descending from Mount Gilead.

2 Your teeth are like a flock of sheep just shorn,

coming up from the washing.

Each has its twin;

not one of them is alone.

3 Your lips are like a scarlet ribbon;

your mouth is lovely.

Your temples behind your veil

are like the halves of a pomegranate.

4 Your neck is like the tower of David,

built with elegance [a] ;

on it hang a thousand shields,

all of them shields of warriors.

5 Your two breasts are like two fawns,

like twin fawns of a gazelle

that browse among the lilies.

6 Until the day breaks

and the shadows flee,

I will go to the mountain of myrrh

and to the hill of incense.

7 All beautiful you are, my darling;

there is no flaw in you.


I don't know how beautiful I'd feel if someone said I looked like this. Hahaha.

I warn you, say what you will about the Bible/Torah/Qu'ran and religion in general, but always show the utmost respect for Jon Stewart's comedic gold.
I heard it wasn't that funny...

I warn you, say what you will about the Bible/Torah/Qu'ran and religion in general, but always show the utmost respect for Jon Stewart's comedic gold.

You have my word. We (my husband & I) got the book for Christmas.. we will treasure it with more respect and honour than any Bible we might have laying around the place.

Jon Stewart, all that is good in the world. :)

I don't need to read the Bible. I'm getting Neon Genesis Evangelion on DVD.

I don't need to read the Bible. I'm getting Neon Genesis Evangelion on DVD.
Thats an odd thing for an atheist anarchist.

Thats an odd thing for an atheist anarchist.

Well, I love anime.

Well then! If Bush says it's true, you know it's not.. ;)

Well, Britney Spears says we should always believe the President...because he is the President.

I don't need to read the Bible. I'm getting Neon Genesis Evangelion on DVD.

What? You aren't stealing it?

http://www.torrentbox.com/download.php/8003/Neon%20Genesis%20Evangelion%20Remastered%20Eps%20%2B%20Movies.torrent

NGE is good stuff. I recently got the whole thing myself, though I've seen it two or three times through already.

What? You aren't stealing it?

http://www.torrentbox.com/download.php/8003/Neon%20Genesis%20Evangelion%20Remastered%20Eps%20%2B%20Movies.torrent

NGE is good stuff. I recently got the whole thing myself, though I've seen it two or three times through already.

Don't watch EoE.

I swear, it's such a mindfuck.

Don't watch EoE.

I swear, it's such a mindfuck.

The whole show is, but it's fascinating. I could spend hours reading the background and not understand anything and keep reading.

I wish you didn't have to watch Death and Rebirth though, it's so repetitive, but it has a few important bits that can't be missed.

Whats this Bible you all speak of?





No I havn't read it.

Yes I have, that's how I know it's a lie.
Steph, what's with the newfound anti-Christianity?

I've read some, but I have to get the Paraphased Edition because all the "thees" and "thous" throw me off. I'd like to read the whole thing and better yet, understand it. I think that may be an impossibility for me though.

Hannibal, I read...............couldnt put it down.

I've read it cover to cover between 8 and 10 times in several different translations. In other orders another probably 5 times and selected portions more times than I could count.

Of course. Song of Songs is the best book.
1 How beautiful you are, my darling!
Oh, how beautiful!

Your eyes behind your veil are doves.

Your hair is like a flock of goats

descending from Mount Gilead.

2 Your teeth are like a flock of sheep just shorn,

coming up from the washing.

Each has its twin;

not one of them is alone.

3 Your lips are like a scarlet ribbon;

your mouth is lovely.

Your temples behind your veil

are like the halves of a pomegranate.

4 Your neck is like the tower of David,

built with elegance [a] ;

on it hang a thousand shields,

all of them shields of warriors.

5 Your two breasts are like two fawns,

like twin fawns of a gazelle

that browse among the lilies.

6 Until the day breaks

and the shadows flee,

I will go to the mountain of myrrh

and to the hill of incense.

7 All beautiful you are, my darling;

there is no flaw in you.


I don't know how beautiful I'd feel if someone said I looked like this. Hahaha.


Song of solomon ... yeah an intresting read. last time this was brought up someone (probably me) asked if masturbating to the bible was a sin :P

I've read it through many times, although not so much recently--that's an almost inevitable result when you leave organized religion, I find. But it, along with other ancient sources of myth and legend, informs so much of our everyday life that it ought to be required reading--as long as it's considered in context, as an ancient book from a distant culture rather than as the infallible word of god.

I've read it through many times, although not so much recently--that's an almost inevitable result when you leave organized religion, I find. But it, along with other ancient sources of myth and legend, informs so much of our everyday life that it ought to be required reading--as long as it's considered in context, as an ancient book from a distant culture rather than as the infallible word of god.
Yup in about the same position ... actualy reading it 3-4 times is probably one of the causes for me "opening" my eyes to reality ... kind of silly that reading the bible would start to cause someone to leave the reiligion lol

Yup in about the same position ... actualy reading it 3-4 times is probably one of the causes for me "opening" my eyes to reality ... kind of silly that reading the bible would start to cause someone to leave the reiligion lol
Not all that silly when you think about it--reading the Bible closely, especially the Gospels, ought to wake anyone up to the fact that most organized religions left behind the actual teachings of Jesus long ago. The difficult part is realizing that there's still a lot of good in those pages despite what organized religion has done to fuck up most peoples' understanding of the message.

Not all that silly when you think about it--reading the Bible closely, especially the Gospels, ought to wake anyone up to the fact that most organized religions left behind the actual teachings of Jesus long ago. The difficult part is realizing that there's still a lot of good in those pages despite what organized religion has done to fuck up most peoples' understanding of the message.
Agreed ...
I am most familiar with Catholicism but I not sure I could actually follow any organized religion

If I was not so damn skeptical I would be deist

Song of solomon ... yeah an intresting read. last time this was brought up someone (probably me) asked if masturbating to the bible was a sin :P
And the answer was: no, it's not, although some wierd interpretations tend to give the impression that it is.

And the answer was: no, it's not, although some wierd interpretations tend to give the impression that it is.
Lol yeah the whole "spilling" of seed thing tends to confuse people

New York Times bestseller though.

Yes...but there is some pretty worthless drivel on that particular list.

Popularity does not automatically equate with worth.

Yes. More times than I can remember, in several different translations - but mainly the KJV.

Also read the French "Darby".

Also, in the Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek, and the Latin.

yup, once all the way through my head still hurts :headbang:

yes i have and contary to popular belief there are NO CONTRADICTIONS in the bible. If you think you have found one try and point it out to me I'd be much obliged to prove you wrong

yes i have and contary to popular belief there are NO CONTRADICTIONS in the bible. If you think you have found one try and point it out to me I'd be much obliged to prove you wrong
Get him Gravy baby :D :fluffle:

yes i have and contary to popular belief there are NO CONTRADICTIONS in the bible. If you think you have found one try and point it out to me I'd be much obliged to prove you wrong


And so begins the very typical argument that goes something like:

Group A: "There are no contradictions in the Bible!"

Group B: "Oh Yeah, well what about this, this, this, this, that, this, and the other?!?"

Group A: "Those are all misinterpretations. Or they are differences in the covenents. Or I am a ninny making up excuses because it is absolutely necessary that the world fit the way I see it, because if it doesn't then I am just lost and I can't handle that."

Group B: "Nice of you to finally come to terms with it, welcome to the flock."

have you read the whole Bible ?
Didn't have to, skipped to the end and found out
The Devil did it !!!!

Get him Gravy baby :D :fluffle:

He doesn't know what he's just asked for. Although I agree with him for the most part, you pretty much have to do a doctoral dissertation to argue with you and GI about these things.

It is interesting to me that you two, having read it a comparable number of times to myself, have come to such different conclusions than I. The Word of God has had such a power full impact on my life and the world, it seems almost unimaginable to me that someone who's read it so closely cannot see that it is inspired and that if it teachings were actually followed, and yes I can see that many "organized" religions have distorted things, that humanity and the universe would live in peace, love and harmony for the best good of all.

Yes, we can argue about specific fine points indefinitely as being a matter of interpretation, but I can't understand how a person could deny its many truths.

I much favor the New Testament to the Old... in the Old it seems they had to repeat the exact same thing for all 12 tribes every time there was a law or directions or adjustments to a law etc.

Instead of simply saying, "And the Lord commandeth all 12 tribes to do the following: ...... "

hehe

BTW, in terms of readability, I like NASB (New American Standard Bible) and NIV (New International Version).

A few of my favorite verses/chapters:

1 Corinthians 13 (whole chapter)
Romans 10:9
John 3:16-17
Psalms 23

(can't remember where these are found)
Beatitudes
The Great Commission
Wide/Narrow Gate
Golden Rule
The Greatest Commandments

Yes, I have.

In my religious days.

He doesn't know what he's just asked for. Although I agree with him for the most part, you pretty much have to do a doctoral dissertation to argue with you and GI about these things.

It is interesting to me that you two, having read it a comparable number of times to myself, have come to such different conclusions than I. The Word of God has had such a power full impact on my life and the world, it seems almost unimaginable to me that someone who's read it so closely cannot see that it is inspired and that if it teachings were actually followed, and yes I can see that many "organized" religions have distorted things, that humanity and the universe would live in peace, love and harmony for the best good of all.

Yes, we can argue about specific fine points indefinitely as being a matter of interpretation, but I can't understand how a person could deny its many truths.
Not so mysterious … I am a comp geek (that doesn’t define … well it does but … it says something about my mind) logic

That above all things seems to be the rule of thumb for me … it has to make SENSE there has to be proof

I am also a natural skeptic so that does not help

I just don’t think I am pre disposed to believe anything without explicit proof … has its good and its bad points but it is just who I am

Not so mysterious … I am a comp geek (that doesn’t define … well it does but … it says something about my mind) logic

That above all things seems to be the rule of thumb for me … it has to make SENSE there has to be proof

I am also a natural skeptic so that does not help

I just don’t think I am pre disposed to believe anything without explicit proof … has its good and its bad points but it is just who I am

I tend toward skeptism of just about everything other than scripture, so we're a lot alike in that regard, just not when it comes to the Bible. The whole explicit proof thing is understandable, kind of "Thomas" like actually and I struggle with that issue sometimes myself. The thing is, I've experienced and read things that provide some very clear evidence, but not proof of everything. When it comes to believing in just about anything though, I think this is the case.

That is why they call it "believing", rather than knowing.

yes i have and contary to popular belief there are NO CONTRADICTIONS in the bible. If you think you have found one try and point it out to me I'd be much obliged to prove you wrong
Ok sence Gravy has not answered this I will go into it shortly


Who is josephs father?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
The place of Jesus in the trinity … or relative “power”

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


Who came first? (no not the chicken and the egg … rather the chicken or the man?)

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


How many animals?
GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
Solomon and his horse stalls
KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.


Alright that’s enough for now … care for me to keep going? Cause I can

I tend toward skeptism of just about everything other than scripture, so we're a lot alike in that regard, just not when it comes to the Bible. The whole explicit proof thing is understandable, kind of "Thomas" like actually and I struggle with that issue sometimes myself. The thing is, I've experienced and read things that provide some very clear evidence, but not proof of everything. When it comes to believing in just about anything though, I think this is the case.

That is why they call it "believing", rather than knowing.
Yup ... I cant yet make that leep to believing ... maybe at some later date

(and I got started on that dissertation above lol ... just a start but gravy is better at arguing specifics ... I am better at concepts)

Ok since it has died down I will find a few more of those contradictions …

Was Jesus’ first sermon on a mountain or on the plain?

Matt.5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."
Luke6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."

Jesus’ last words (seemd like if anything should be accurately recorded it would be the death of the son of god)

Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."
Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
This one is interesting … Elijah’s assent into heaven? (should not be possible)

"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11)
"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, ... the Son of Man." (John 3:13)


Hmmm maybe more later …

I think...
The first 4 books of the New Testament are the same exact story. They are told by 4 different men and each man interpreted or worded his story in his own fashion. Sticking to the "facts", but haveing some variations perhaps on the actual verbage. So maybe thats why there are so many discrepancies.

What did the Catholic church say about it UT?

( :fluffle: )

I think...
The first 4 books of the New Testament are the same exact story. They are told by 4 different men and each man interpreted or worded his story in his own fashion. Sticking to the "facts", but haveing some variations perhaps on the actual verbage. So maybe thats why there are so many discrepancies.

What did the Catholic church say about it UT?

( :fluffle: )
I am sure that is some of it … that’s why I am cutting out all the little ones like the cock crow one (when Jesus was betrayed) on version says 3 the other eludes to less then 3 and such… but that could be wording issues

But some of them have complete differences … most of the ones I listed have such where they are totally different quotes or what not (like in the Jesus example)


Grave_n_Idle probably knows more about the effect (specially because some of the contradictions could be translation error) and I don’t read Hebrew like he does :-D (that and he has spent a bit more time with re translating things then I have) and such

(btw welcome back peachy :fluffle: )

I'll grab him on an IM and pick his brain. Or maybe he'll come back to this thread and join in.

:D I love you guys. This could go on for days...and probably will.

I love you guys.
Lol me or peachy? and if so is there a specific reason :D

Lol me or peachy? and if so is there a specific reason :D

All of you guys!! Well, the ones who actually argue from a logical standpoint and back up your arguments with strong evidence...you know, the types that helped kill off that Defensor troll. ^_^..although it is sad how much time we all spend on here...

All of you guys!! Well, the ones who actually argue from a logical standpoint and back up your arguments with strong evidence...you know, the types that helped kill off that Defensor troll. ^_^..although it is sad how much time we all spend on here...
Logic rules me usually (unless I am being facetious )

Logic rules me usually (unless I am being facetious )

This place is kind of like something one of my professors had us do during my first semester of college. It was through WebCT, a messageboard for our classes. We argued about things, supported our arguments (if we didn't, he stepped in and shot us down immediately), and pretty much learned to accept each other. What made it even funnier is that most of us were living in the same wing,on the same floor of the residence hall. You could be sitting in the computer lab, arguing with your roommate who was sitting on the floor in the hallway with his/her laptop. Even worse, you could be sitting within arm's reach of the person you were arguing with.. it was funny, pathetic, and wonderful at the same time..

This place is kind of like something one of my professors had us do during my first semester of college. It was through WebCT, a messageboard for our classes. We argued about things, supported our arguments (if we didn't, he stepped in and shot us down immediately), and pretty much learned to accept each other. What made it even funnier is that most of us were living in the same wing,on the same floor of the residence hall. You could be sitting in the computer lab, arguing with your roommate who was sitting on the floor in the hallway with his/her laptop. Even worse, you could be sitting within arm's reach of the person you were arguing with.. it was funny, pathetic, and wonderful at the same time..
Ok you got me curious … I am from Minnesota … Was a WebCT system admin before we switched services to Desire To Learn … just curious where you were from … I did not know WebCT was outside of MN (though I did developmental issues did not deal with who originally created it)

Ok you got me curious … I am from Minnesota … Was a WebCT system admin before we switched services to Desire To Learn … just curious where you were from … I did not know WebCT was outside of MN (though I did developmental issues did not deal with who originally created it)

I'm in Georgia. The entire university system in the state uses it.

I'm in Georgia. The entire university system in the state uses it.
We did too untill we switched last year ... intresting

We did too untill we switched last year ... intresting

I seriously doubt Georgia will even consider switching. We're screwing ourselves out of enough money already.

I seriously doubt Georgia will even consider switching. We're screwing ourselves out of enough money already.
We took another base and developed it ourselves … really did not cost that much all told. And we had the ACTUAL equipment still from webCT so hardware was not an issue so no money spent there

I think all told maybe 20k dollars (in mostly time) to switch over the whole state of Minnesota :p

I'm in Georgia. The entire university system in the state uses it.

Wow! Me too! :fluffle:

Wow! Me too! :fluffle:
Damn now I am going to be jellous ... lives close AND gets a fluffle!

Damn now I am going to be jellous ... lives close AND gets a fluffle!

lol..... :fluffle: i can fluffle from 900 miles away my dear

lol..... :fluffle: i can fluffle from 900 miles away my dear
I know but still jellous ... if I was closer might be easier to get a in person fluffle :p

It was a great fight that provides a great climax to the story. I don't want to ruin it but I was kind of disappointed by the deus ex machina :)
Ah, literature humor that most people don't seem to appreciate. I though this was really clever.

Wow! Me too! :fluffle:

Yay! Someone else knows about the stupid crap that goes on around here!

Ok sence Gravy has not answered this I will go into it shortly


Who is josephs father?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
The place of Jesus in the trinity … or relative “power”

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


Who came first? (no not the chicken and the egg … rather the chicken or the man?)

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


How many animals?
GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
Solomon and his horse stalls
KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.


Alright that’s enough for now … care for me to keep going? Cause I can

The first one is a problem, but it is also probably just a transcription error from looking at two different geneologies.

Second: There is not necessarily a discrepency here as both can be true at the same time if Christ voluntarily defers to the Father, while still being one with Him. The Trinity is probably an issue that is as infinite God, that will remain partially a mystery thoughout eternity.

Third: The first passage is focused on the order of creation, and in the second it could be understood to mean that God created the animals and after creating Adam He brought them to him to be named.

Fourth: Again there is a difference in the focus of the passages. One documents how many creatures there were, the other their method of entry into the ark.

Fifth: There is no Hebrew word for 40,000 or 4,000 for that matter, if memory serves me correctly, Gravey? and again this passage is relalitive meaningless in terms of truths taught in the Bible, even less so than the passage on Joseph's father.

Incidently, I concede that there are translation errors. I believe the Bible to be idea or thought inspired.

Yup ... I cant yet make that leep to believing ... maybe at some later date

(and I got started on that dissertation above lol ... just a start but gravy is better at arguing specifics ... I am better at concepts)

Are you sure you believe nothing? I'm guessing you believe in somethings, just not the voracity of scripture and or religion.

Are you sure you believe nothing? I'm guessing you believe in somethings, just not the voracity of scripture and or religion.
You are correct I ment it in relation to an individual (organized)religion

Ok since it has died down I will find a few more of those contradictions …

Was Jesus’ first sermon on a mountain or on the plain?

Matt.5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."
Luke6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."

Jesus’ last words (seemd like if anything should be accurately recorded it would be the death of the son of god)

Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."
Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
This one is interesting … Elijah’s assent into heaven? (should not be possible)

"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11)
"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, ... the Son of Man." (John 3:13)


Hmmm maybe more later …

You forgot to add Enoch and Moses as being in heaven as well. I guess with Enoch it just says "God took him.", but Jude seems pretty clear about Moses. My understanding about the apparent contradiction has to do with translation of the word "heaven" in John as it carries the implication of direct presence with the Father.

As for the different things Jesus said, perhaps he said them all relatively close to dying and different authors focusing on different aspects chose to report selected details while leaving others out.

The sermon on the mount/plain... perhaps two different times Jesus said very similar things or perhaps he spoke to the disciples and then the multitude or vice versa.

yes i have and contary to popular belief there are NO CONTRADICTIONS in the bible. If you think you have found one try and point it out to me I'd be much obliged to prove you wrong

I think, perhaps, before I get killed by the screaming masses.... maybe you should start a "I'm about to make an indefensible claim, please don't all post obvious contradictions at once" thread.

I see UpwardThrust has given you some tidbits to think about while I was indisposed....

You are correct I ment it in relation to an individual (organized)religion

If you can believe in one thing, why not another? That's rhetorical. You don't I would say your experience with "religion" is sufficient explanation for where you are at present. I hope some day you experience someone who displays true Christianity, either that or that God solves your problem the "Thomas" way.

I think, perhaps, before I get killed by the screaming masses.... maybe you should start a "I'm about to make an indefensible claim, please don't all post obvious contradictions at once" thread.

I see UpwardThrust has given you some tidbits to think about while I was indisposed....
Just a start ... I had more but dident want to rant for too long

He doesn't know what he's just asked for. Although I agree with him for the most part, you pretty much have to do a doctoral dissertation to argue with you and GI about these things.

It is interesting to me that you two, having read it a comparable number of times to myself, have come to such different conclusions than I. The Word of God has had such a power full impact on my life and the world, it seems almost unimaginable to me that someone who's read it so closely cannot see that it is inspired and that if it teachings were actually followed, and yes I can see that many "organized" religions have distorted things, that humanity and the universe would live in peace, love and harmony for the best good of all.

Yes, we can argue about specific fine points indefinitely as being a matter of interpretation, but I can't understand how a person could deny its many truths.

Why, thank you, I think! :)

I think we may have touched on this in passing, before... that we both immersed in the same scripture, but came away from it with VERY different results.

For me, the more interested I became, the more fascinated I was, the greater my depth of study - the LESS it all made sense.

But, we already knew THAT! :)

Just a start ... I had more but dident want to rant for too long

Well, I'm in and out, right now... hopefully I can come back and mop up the pieces in a little bit! :)

I think we should loose PR on him... man knows his scripture. :)

I think, perhaps, before I get killed by the screaming masses.... maybe you should start a "I'm about to make an indefensible claim, please don't all post obvious contradictions at once" thread.

I see UpwardThrust has given you some tidbits to think about while I was indisposed....

Hey GI, I knew you couldn't resist this kind of challenge. This guys in for a baptism by fire I can see it coming :p ;) . I wish I had the time to go through all the challenges myself and give you back a taste of your own medice, but I just don't know Greek and Hebrew well enough to do it off the top of my head and I'm not sure where all my notes on these things are.

If you can believe in one thing, why not another? That's rhetorical. You don't I would say your experience with "religion" is sufficient explanation for where you are at present. I hope some day you experience someone who displays true Christianity, either that or that God solves your problem the "Thomas" way.
Ohhh I have but there is one thing

My “Beliefs” are usually founded in SOMETHING to start with … for me to believe something I have to have PROOF of some sort


For example belief in general human decency … I know have observed and taken part in (through completely internal drives) to help others through charity

It does not have to be 100 percent for me to believe (would not really be a belief then) but a rather goodly amount.


Its hard to explain this correctly so forgive me if I know I leave loopholes a train can drive through

Why, thank you, I think! :)

I think we may have touched on this in passing, before... that we both immersed in the same scripture, but came away from it with VERY different results.

For me, the more interested I became, the more fascinated I was, the greater my depth of study - the LESS it all made sense.

But, we already knew THAT! :)
I agree ... things did not "Ring true"
They did not flow , and thoes that did rarly got the same take the "religion" did.
Not to mention the things the faith has been used for ...

Just seemed to easily explaned by other means that made more sence ... and the faith itself so indicitive of some need to just "have a reason"

Why, thank you, I think! :)

I think we may have touched on this in passing, before... that we both immersed in the same scripture, but came away from it with VERY different results.

For me, the more interested I became, the more fascinated I was, the greater my depth of study - the LESS it all made sense.

But, we already knew THAT! :)

You're welcome. It was a compliment. You're scholarship is commendable, but as noted we have definitely drawn different conclusions. It has been my experience that those who have only the scholarship side of the experience come up with many and varied conclusions, all of which discount scriptures validity in some way or another. Conversely, those that search it while asking for guidance from God and the Holy Spirit seem to find it full of meaning and trancendent value.

You're welcome. It was a compliment. You're scholarship is commendable, but as noted we have definitely drawn different conclusions. It has been my experience that those who have only the scholarship side of the experience come up with many and varied conclusions, all of which discount scriptures validity in some way or another. Conversely, those that search it while asking for guidance from God and the Holy Spirit seem to find it full of meaning and trancendent value.
Maybe it is just “finding” justification for our beliefs in an ambiguous text … people do it all the time, they have a pre determined wish that they work as hard as possible to justify.

(but they ARE ambiguous … hence my agnosticism rather then atheism)

Ohhh I have but there is one thing

My “Beliefs” are usually founded in SOMETHING to start with … for me to believe something I have to have PROOF of some sort


For example belief in general human decency … I know have observed and taken part in (through completely internal drives) to help others through charity

It does not have to be 100 percent for me to believe (would not really be a belief then) but a rather goodly amount.


Its hard to explain this correctly so forgive me if I know I leave loopholes a train can drive through

That's okay. I'd rather send a still small voice through rather than a train anyway.

So, are you saying that nothing in the Bible is accurate or believeable? I know my belief in the scripture is based on a combination of things some of which are evidential, some of which are personal experience and some of which are blind faith. The latter being based on the former. That's why I argue that there is a combination of faith based on evidence necessary to most any part of "belief".

As for your internal drives, can you prove that they weren't inspired by the Holy Spirit or some other external source that may have been tied to divinity in some way?

Just some things to think about. Not really wanting to argue about it.

That's okay. I'd rather send a still small voice through rather than a train anyway.

So, are you saying that nothing in the Bible is accurate or believeable? I know my belief in the scripture is based on a combination of things some of which are evidential, some of which are personal experience and some of which are blind faith. The latter being based on the former. That's why I argue that there is a combination of faith based on evidence necessary to most any part of "belief".

As for your internal drives, can you prove that they weren't inspired by the Holy Spirit or some other external source that may have been tied to divinity in some way?

Just some things to think about. Not really wanting to argue about it.
Unless there was some proof that something DID influance thoes opinions I would (and just may just be me) prefer to go with what I know ... it was an emotion that I feel personaly with no reason to believe it is external therefore like emotions and everything else must be mine

Again hard to explain I guess it is logical that it came from the same place emotions come from with no evidence that it is externaly influanced I prefer not to put stock in the external influance theory

Well, the Library of Congress classified the Bible has non-fiction....
yeah, plato's republic is classified as non-fiction too. as is the koran, the tibetian book of the dead, the egyptian book of the dead, what's his face's utopia, neitzsche's the gay science...

philsophies and religions fall under non-fiction. hell, the religion section precedes the sociology section in the dewy decimal system... it may be there as a study of humanity more than a study of non-fictional literature.

edit: wait, if it's non-fiction then it's not literature... but you know what i mean.

edit 2: wait, but shakespeare is found in the non-fiction section too. i'm confused.

When you read the Bible, read only every 7th word. This only works with the Hebrew, but I'll get you started until you can learn Hebrew:

Heaven was upon (the) face (of) Light. It divided God (and the) darkness.

And so on and so on ...

yeah, plato's republic is classified as non-fiction too. as is the koran, the tibetian book of the dead, the egyptian book of the dead, what's his face's utopia, neitzsche's the gay science...

philsophies and religions fall under non-fiction. hell, the religion section precedes the sociology section in the dewy decimal system... it may be there as a study of humanity more than a study of non-fictional literature.

edit: wait, if it's non-fiction then it's not literature... but you know what i mean.

edit 2: wait, but shakespeare is found in the non-fiction section too. i'm confused.
Damn you and your logic :p

I agree ... things did not "Ring true"
They did not flow , and thoes that did rarly got the same take the "religion" did.
Not to mention the things the faith has been used for ...

Just seemed to easily explaned by other means that made more sence ... and the faith itself so indicitive of some need to just "have a reason"

I can't argue about the things that have been done in the name of religion being defendable by scripture, though I would argue that many of the things done contrary to God's ideal were the result of fallen, sinful humaness, rather than as a result of "religion".

As for the ringing true issue, there are still somethings I read that don't seem to ring true. The thing I have found over time, though is that the more I read through the eyes of faith, the more things seem to come together that once seemed contradictory or impossible.

An example: When I was young my Step-dad used to tell me that we were saved by grace through faith and that works didn't play a role and or that it was impossible to be "sinless" prior to Christ coming again, but when you run into the books of James, Romans and Corinthians major conflict. What I have come to see is that I can't do it myself and that it is a result of grace, the same way salvation is and that it is a process of growth, that even if I become "sinless" it will only be through complete dependence on God. But it took me years of reading and study to see how these concepts fit together. The reality is, even Bible believing theologians, still argue about this subject.

Don't watch EoE.

I swear, it's such a mindfuck.

I've heard that as well. I've also heard that there are a bunch of different endings of Eva.

Damn you and your logic :p
well, in the libarary in the town where i used to live... well, kinda do (am away at school) the only thing i would read was the non-fiction stuff. i would pour over the religion sections (spent more of my time on mythologies) the philsophy section and to a certain extent, the ancient history section. a little psychology and socioogy early in my highschool carreer/junior high.

i kinda have bits and pieces of the dewy decimal system memorized...

Maybe it is just “finding” justification for our beliefs in an ambiguous text … people do it all the time, they have a pre determined wish that they work as hard as possible to justify.

(but they ARE ambiguous … hence my agnosticism rather then atheism)

This has definitely been done, but I don't think it is always the case.

Unless there was some proof that something DID influance thoes opinions I would (and just may just be me) prefer to go with what I know ... it was an emotion that I feel personaly with no reason to believe it is external therefore like emotions and everything else must be mine

Again hard to explain I guess it is logical that it came from the same place emotions come from with no evidence that it is externaly influanced I prefer not to put stock in the external influance theory

So environment doesn't play any role in behavior :confused:

So environment doesn't play any role in behavior :confused:
But that is a proven case ... where you can compare environments and the effects on the populace … I am not saying external events don’t play a part but you have to have proof that CERTAIN things effect people a certain way …

Environment is a proven case (at least MORE data/proof)… the holy spirit is not

But that is a proven case ... where you can compare environments and the effects on the populace … I am not saying external events don’t play a part but you have to have proof that CERTAIN things effect people a certain way …

Environment is a proven case (at least MORE data/proof)… the holy spirit is not

True, but you can certainly say the teachings of the Bible have affected the environment dramatically in both positive and when misused, negative ways.

Damn now I am going to be jellous ... lives close AND gets a fluffle!

he he... at least he doesn't live close, get fluffles AND have an English accent...

Bwah ha ha :)

Does it count if I have burned bibles?

Hey GI, I knew you couldn't resist this kind of challenge. This guys in for a baptism by fire I can see it coming :p ;) . I wish I had the time to go through all the challenges myself and give you back a taste of your own medice, but I just don't know Greek and Hebrew well enough to do it off the top of my head and I'm not sure where all my notes on these things are.

Ooooh, well, when you find your notes, you are ON... we've butted heads a few times, but I'm always ready to tussle. :)

I have been otherwise engaged on and off the last day or so... I hope I haven't missed ALL the fun... :)

Seriously - when you want to drag it out and make a big debate, I'll be a willing partner... and I'm always looking for some good competition. :)

yes i have and contary to popular belief there are NO CONTRADICTIONS in the bible. If you think you have found one try and point it out to me I'd be much obliged to prove you wrong

I'll wait and see if you return, first... at the moment I have the terrible suspicion you were just a puppet-nation...

But, if and when you get back, let the festivities commence.

Start with the one I gave Defensor, if you like...

Whare was Jesus THREE DAYS AFTER his baptism?

Should that not read the Holy Bible?..

That was baad

Complete Old Testament, King James New Testament, the Book of Mormon, a translation of the Koran, and several Buddhist works.

I don't think any organized religion has got it all right, though.

I've read the New Testament 3 times through and all the Old Testament through twice, with the exception of the prophets.

I have only read about half of Ezekial and have not read one of the other major prophets. I'm slowly working through them (but they are kinda boring).

pretty much i read the bible once (i was a REALLY BORED bookworm) i skipped the boring parts. (letters to corithians etc.)

I've not read a single word from the bible, nor have I ever attended church.

Yes I have, that's how I know it's a lie.

Ditto.

Oooh, zombie thread.

pretty much i read the bible once (i was a REALLY BORED bookworm)
Stop digging up months-old threads, Avarhierrim. When you have nothing to actually contribute except "yeah, me too", it not just spam - it's old, moldy spam. Knock it off.

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