NationStates Jolt Archive

With all the threads dedicated to religion, etc., I am curious to see what everyone believes in. This is not meant to be a thread where we all criticize what the other believes in, just to state an opinion. This is not a thread to debate the existence or non-existence of a Supreme Being, or to offer proof that your theory is correct, make up your own thread for that. This is a calm, safe place to express yourself and share and learn what other people think and why they feel that way. And if anyone is mean to anyone else, I'll kick them in the eye.

Personally, I think there HAS to be some sort of Supreme Being that started it all. I don't know who or what that is, and I hope we may find out someday. I don't believe that there is much interest on the part of the Supreme Being, it seems to me that we are all a REALLY big Sims game. But I look at the beauty and the complexity and yes, even the ugly and the bad, and I think there has to be something else out there to make it all.

i don't think there's a supreme being. i think that stuff has always been here. the reason it works (i.e. life etc etc) is because there's a hell of a lot of space for a hell of a lot of planets and a hell of a lot of circumstances where it doesn't work. generally i beleive humans can be better than any kind of god. humans exist.

I do... too much weird Sh*t happened in my life to secure my belief in the Big G!

I don't know, nor is it my place to know. Neither of the above.

i don't think there's a supreme being. i think that stuff has always been here. the reason it works (i.e. life etc etc) is because there's a hell of a lot of space for a hell of a lot of planets and a hell of a lot of circumstances where it doesn't work. generally i beleive humans can be better than any kind of god. humans exist.

So you think everything just came into existence, not brought into existence. And when I say this, I'm not arguing with you, just clarifying what you are saying.

I don't know, nor is it my place to know. Neither of the above.
Good Point, how do you change polls to add options? :)

I see no evidence for the existance of gods, therefore I don't beleive.

The point that I get stuck on is that SOMETHING had to exist before time. Either a higher power or some blob of infinately dense material. But what made that blob explode? Probably something else interacting with it, which would require multiple blobs of nothingness.
No matter how you feel, it requires faith, because the human mind cannot truly understand infinity and existence before existence/time.

I consider myself protestant agnostic, meaning I believe there's something out there, but I'm not sure what. I was raised protestant, so I'll stick with that for now, but I'm totally unsure about whether there is a God, what religion he's from, whether or not all religions are actually one big scheme to get as many people as possible to believe in Him (or even Her), or whether some Island cult is the real thing and everyone else burns in their idea of purgatory for eternity.

So you think everything just came into existence, not brought into existence. And when I say this, I'm not arguing with you, just clarifying what you are saying.


i don't think there was a time when it didn't exist.

With all the threads dedicated to religion, etc., I am curious to see what everyone believes in. This is not meant to be a thread where we all criticize what the other believes in, just to state an opinion. This is not a thread to debate the existence or non-existence of a Supreme Being, or to offer proof that your theory is correct, make up your own thread for that. This is a calm, safe place to express yourself and share and learn what other people think and why they feel that way. And if anyone is mean to anyone else, I'll kick them in the eye.

Personally, I think there HAS to be some sort of Supreme Being that started it all. I don't know who or what that is, and I hope we may find out someday. I don't believe that there is much interest on the part of the Supreme Being, it seems to me that we are all a REALLY big Sims game. But I look at the beauty and the complexity and yes, even the ugly and the bad, and I think there has to be something else out there to make it all.

I can explain truth and beauty in purely observational and scientific terms, and see no evidence that makes me believe there might be a 'creative' spirit or some 'guiding force'.

The only Supreme Being I know is "Leeloo Dallas". :)

Yeah. I believe in God or *Supreme Being*.

I believe that there is most certainly a God – though what the nature of that might be, I wouldn’t even hazard a guess. A call myself a Christian and pray in the Christian way because that’s the form of worship that appeals the most to me, but I don’t believe that my religion is any more right or true than the other various religions. If God is God, then I doubt that he’d be finicky over the form in which he is venerated...or, indeed, care about whether he is acknowledged at all.

The universe has too much order in it to have been created entirely be chance. There must be some kind of intelligence behind it – I don’t believe that creation can be put entirely down to happy coincidence.

My two cents. :)

I personally don't follow any religion, because I feel that if you believe in God/Allah/Alanis etc., you must form your own relationship with him/her. Another thing that leads me to believe in a Supreme Being is some of the similarities between the religions. I haven't studied deeply into a lot of religions, but it appears from what I have seen, that there is a Supreme Being, and if you do what this Being wants, you are rewarded, and if not, you are punished.

The point that I get stuck on is that SOMETHING had to exist before time. Either a higher power or some blob of infinately dense material. But what made that blob explode? Probably something else interacting with it, which would require multiple blobs of nothingness.
No matter how you feel, it requires faith, because the human mind cannot truly understand infinity and existence before existence/time.

Why would you say that?

I have no problems with infinity... to me, it's harder to dea with concepts like Trinity, Indwelling, and Aspect gods...

You are, of course, missing the possibility that there WAS NO BEGINNING time... that all has happened before, over and over... and that THIS reality was born from the ashes of the PREVIOUS reality...

Why would you say that?

I have no problems with infinity... to me, it's harder to dea with concepts like Trinity, Indwelling, and Aspect gods...

You are, of course, missing the possibility that there WAS NO BEGINNING time... that all has happened before, over and over... and that THIS reality was born from the ashes of the PREVIOUS reality...
Like Fawkes the Phoenix in Harry Potter? :)

I am supposed to be jewish but i dont believe in any sort of god. i believe :sniper: is very bad.

I'm afraid you forgot the option "I do not know/care" in the poll. Some of us are agnostics and don't have a strong belief of disbelief in a supreme being, you know.

I am refusing to vote in this poll because you make it sound like its black and white. I dont believe in a supreme BEING, but I do however believe in something much more simple and abstract than a being with thoughts and actions. My idea is something more involving time and space and human thought. It's very hard to explain. I'm not atheist, I'm not theist, I am somewhere inbetween... agnostic... that's the word.

Like Fawkes the Phoenix in Harry Potter? :)

Exactly.

Our mythologies are littered with rising-from-the-ashes, our religions are littered with rising-from-the-ashes...

There is just something innately 'logical', about suspecting that things turn full circle.

I'm afraid you forgot the option "I do not know/care" in the poll. Some of us are agnostics and don't have a strong belief of disbelief in a supreme being, you know.
Yes, I realized that very soon after I set it up. I should make a new poll to add both options. Sorry. Or you could :)

Yes, I realized that very soon after I set it up. I should make a new poll to add both options. Sorry. Or you could :)

Or the agnostics could just... not vote... since the question asked DO YOU BELIEVE, and they are asserting a platform of 'no belief' either way...

Of course, not all agnostics accept the idea of a "Supreme Being" as one of the things they 'might' believe in, anyway...

lol well, this is just further proof you can't make everybody happy :) at least there is a place to post your feelings, and that was the whole point anyhow :)

Or the agnostics could just... not vote...

Which is exactly what I did(or rather did not do), though I did bother to mention what I thought anyway.

Because, you know, everybody deserves to know my opinion :P

Which is exactly what I did(or rather did not do), though I did bother to mention what I thought anyway.

Because, you know, everybody deserves to know my opinion :P
Hey, when I want your opinion, I'll give it to you! ha ha, just kidding. :)

Hey, when I want your opinion, I'll give it to you! ha ha, just kidding. :)

I thought it was the other way around, what with you trying to determine your beliefs according to ours :D

Seriously though, the reason I'm an agnostic is because... Frankly, nobody of any religion has ever had anything more convincing to me than something alon the lines "You have to believe in god because a few thousand years ago, he told some whacko in the desert that everyone had to believe in him. Without any proofs.". Not pretty convincing to me.

However, not being able to prove that something/someone exists doesn't make it NOT exist either. I can't prove you exist, but I'm pretty sure you do exist anyway. And atheists haven't been able to prove the inexistance of god any more than theists have been able to prove his existence. Hence my agnosticism.

I consider myself protestant agnostic, meaning I believe there's something out there, but I'm not sure what. I was raised protestant, so I'll stick with that for now, but I'm totally unsure about whether there is a God, what religion he's from, <snip>

Eh, what? Protestant agnostic? You beleive you cant know if there is a god, but believe in a god. Sure mate? Just sayin..

Which is exactly what I did(or rather did not do), though I did bother to mention what I thought anyway.

Because, you know, everybody deserves to know my opinion :P

Seems like a workable situation, to me, then.

:)

I thought it was the other way around, what with you trying to determine your beliefs according to ours :D

Seriously though, the reason I'm an agnostic is because... Frankly, nobody of any religion has ever had anything more convincing to me than something alon the lines "You have to believe in god because a few thousand years ago, he told some whacko in the desert that everyone had to believe in him. Without any proofs.". Not pretty convincing to me.

However, not being able to prove that something/someone exists doesn't make it NOT exist either. I can't prove you exist, but I'm pretty sure you do exist anyway. And atheists haven't been able to prove the inexistance of god any more than theists have been able to prove his existence. Hence my agnosticism.

Why would atheists WANT to disprove god?

It would be like you trying to prove that Noing are Frungle.

As I consider man to be a spiritual being who happens to have a body, I consider that you, me, we ... are the supreme being. It's a bit of a take on the "God is in you and all around you", but mostly I feel, "I am god" applies.

Why would atheists WANT to disprove god?

It would be like you trying to prove that Noing are Frungle.

I'm not saying they should WANT to disprove God: but the fact that they didn't stops me from being one. I have somewhat of a scientific mind: and a scientist never believes in something he has no proof for. He might consider the possible theories (every religion, and atheism are all possible theories). But a scientist will not draw conclusions without sufficient proff: so I'm not positionning myself until I have proff either of his existance, or of his nonexistance.

Personally, I lean more toward two explanations about God: either he does not exist(as in atheism belief), or he does exist but he is either absent or follows a "Prime Directive"-type law, to ensure we have a chance to develop freely and exercise our free will.

I am a Buddhist, so I do not believe in a supreme being. But I do believe in a supreme world (kinda like a heaven) which in Buddhism is called nirvana. All Buddhist strive to enter this realm, dead or even alive. It is the realm of true sight knowledge and peace.

Do you believe in a Supreme Being?

Yes, I married him .. ;)

Yes, I married him .. ;)
Awwww, that is too sweet. :D :fluffle:
But, I have to break my own rules :eek: and disagree.
I married The Supreme Being! :fluffle:

Awwww, that is too sweet. :D :fluffle:
But, I have to break my own rules :eek: and disagree.
I married The Supreme Being! :fluffle:

Hey, we can always agree to disagree.. :cool:

Why would you say that?

I have no problems with infinity... to me, it's harder to dea with concepts like Trinity, Indwelling, and Aspect gods...

You are, of course, missing the possibility that there WAS NO BEGINNING time... that all has happened before, over and over... and that THIS reality was born from the ashes of the PREVIOUS reality...

Even if this is round 4,309 of reality, the first one had to come from somewhere. Besides, I was a huge fan of the show Sliders, so I also think there are many different alternate Earths too.

Hey, we can always agree to disagree.. :cool:
Good 'nuff :)

Even if this is round 4,309 of reality, the first one had to come from somewhere. Besides, I was a huge fan of the show Sliders, so I also think there are many different alternate Earths too.

Why did the first one have to come from somwhere?

You humans think in such three-dimensional terms...

The very first ever reality came out of the ashes of the previous one... since the previous one was the very first one, first. Perhaps the very first one rose from the ashes of the very last one, which has yet to happen... except that it's legacy is obvious in the birth of the very first one...

That's the thing about infinity... comes back and meets itself.... or maybe it just tends away from not coming back to meet itself...

Why did the first one have to come from somwhere?

You humans think in such three-dimensional terms...

The very first ever reality came out of the ashes of the previous one... since the previous one was the very first one, first. Perhaps the very first one rose from the ashes of the very last one, which has yet to happen... except that it's legacy is obvious in the birth of the very first one...

That's the thing about infinity... comes back and meets itself.... or maybe it just tends away from not coming back to meet itself...
Just for shits and giggles, where did the loop come from?
It's a bit like the chicken and the egg, eh?

It's a bit like the chicken and the egg, eh?

I vote for the egg. Eggs are yummy...


Then again, chicken are yummy too. I change my vote for the chicken.

edit: Yes, I know, no relevance whatsoever. Feel free to ignore me.

hmmm, it is dinnertime here in the hundred acre wood
I'm going with omelets

I definately believe in The Supremes.

I'm not saying they should WANT to disprove God: but the fact that they didn't stops me from being one. I have somewhat of a scientific mind: and a scientist never believes in something he has no proof for. He might consider the possible theories (every religion, and atheism are all possible theories). But a scientist will not draw conclusions without sufficient proff: so I'm not positionning myself until I have proff either of his existance, or of his nonexistance.

Personally, I lean more toward two explanations about God: either he does not exist(as in atheism belief), or he does exist but he is either absent or follows a "Prime Directive"-type law, to ensure we have a chance to develop freely and exercise our free will.

Whether or not you realise it, you are actually very close to the purest definition of an atheist.

See... the Atheist doesn't have to believe that there is no god... he/she just doesn't believe that there IS.

The Atheist WOULD believe if there was evidence... the Agnsostic believes that it is impossible to comprehend that evidence...

Just for shits and giggles, where did the loop come from?
It's a bit like the chicken and the egg, eh?

The loop came from itself... it was already there (leaving) just as it arrived.

An example: There is a man, he walks into a room, sees himself running out of the room, and runs after him. When he leaves the room, he finds that he has arrived back at the same point he came in... and there, across the room, he can see himself leaving the room... so, he runs after him...

What happened BEFORE the man entered the room?

What happened after he left?

And, even if it were possible to find a point outside of that room, some distant time where the man WASN'T in, entering or leaving.... what significance would that HAVE, in the room?

Yes, and that Supreme Being is me!!! :)

Whether or not you realise it, you are actually very close to the purest definition of an atheist.

See... the Atheist doesn't have to believe that there is no god... he/she just doesn't believe that there IS.

The Atheist WOULD believe if there was evidence... the Agnsostic believes that it is impossible to comprehend that evidence...

Actually, there are, as in any religion or absence of religion, many points of view among agnostics. I'm personnally what you might call an "apathetic agnostic". You could sum up my question to wheter or not god exists as "I don't really know, and I don't really care".

And unless I'm mistaken, I thought Atheists believed that god didn't exist, not just that they didn't believe he exists. I know it's tricky wording, but I hope you get the idea :P Because the difference, slight though it may be, has some importance. Maybe someone (read: you, because I'm lazy) could look up a definition of agnosticism and atheism on an online dictionnary?

I do believe in a deity, but I don't believe it is "out there", so I had to vote "no" in the poll. God exists within us, a part of us.

The loop came from itself... it was already there (leaving) just as it arrived.

An example: There is a man, he walks into a room, sees himself running out of the room, and runs after him. When he leaves the room, he finds that he has arrived back at the same point he came in... and there, across the room, he can see himself leaving the room... so, he runs after him...

What happened BEFORE the man entered the room?

What happened after he left?

And, even if it were possible to find a point outside of that room, some distant time where the man WASN'T in, entering or leaving.... what significance would that HAVE, in the room?


Oww, oww oww, exploding head!!! I see what you mean though. I do think it will have to be a situation of agree to disagree though, because, to continue with your example, I have problems with wondering about the rest of the house. How did he get in the house? How does he get to the other door? There has to be some rational explanation for that, in my opinion. :)

Oww, oww oww, exploding head!!! I see what you mean though. I do think it will have to be a situation of agree to disagree though, because, to continue with your example, I have problems with wondering about the rest of the house. How did he get in the house? How does he get to the other door? There has to be some rational explanation for that, in my opinion. :)

Why did he have to enter the house?

What house?

You assume that, just because he enters the room, and leaves it, the room MUST be in a house?

If you were IN that room, and you looked out of "door A" (the one he comes in through), you would see yourself looking through a doorway at yourself.... etc. You would also see the man running towards you (being chased, one room away, by himself...).

Similarly, if you looked at "door B", you would see yourself looking toward yourself, etc... and would see the Man running away from you, towards his own receeding back...

You ASSUME a house, but since Door B leads directly to the Door A position, you could say that Door B is just what Door A looks like from the other side.

So - one room, one door... with two doorways... what house?

And you KNOW how he got into the room.... he came in, through Door A.... and, when he did.... you know what he saw.

So - why does there have to be 'a house'? What is 'a house', anyway?

Just for shits and giggles, where did the loop come from?
It's a bit like the chicken and the egg, eh?
:) It is *exactly* the chicken and the egg, and a question that is not intended to have an answer but to perpetuate thought about the loop itself. The loop is the thing, you see.

Aww heck, Graves said it better.

Yes, and that Supreme Being is me!!! :)
"Know thyself." :)

owwwwwwwwwwww, I'm hurting my brain.
Why can't you eat soup in The Matrix?

Actually, there are, as in any religion or absence of religion, many points of view among agnostics. I'm personnally what you might call an "apathetic agnostic". You could sum up my question to wheter or not god exists as "I don't really know, and I don't really care".

And unless I'm mistaken, I thought Atheists believed that god didn't exist, not just that they didn't believe he exists. I know it's tricky wording, but I hope you get the idea :P Because the difference, slight though it may be, has some importance. Maybe someone (read: you, because I'm lazy) could look up a definition of agnosticism and atheism on an online dictionnary?

I really should save the definitions to my hard-drive... I go looking for them, and paste them up every couple of weeks, or so... :)

Atheist: One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

Agnostic:
a) One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b) One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

(Note: the convention is: Hard Atheists believe "there is no god", Soft Atheists just "Don't believe" in god)

(Note: the convention is: An Agnostic TRULY is someone who believes it impossible to KNOW if there is a god or not... the 'atheist' agnostic is a corruption).

:) It is *exactly* the chicken and the egg, and a question that is not intended to have an answer but to perpetuate thought about the loop itself. The loop is the thing, you see.

Aww heck, Graves said it better.

Why, thank you.

Not seen you on these shores, in a while, Willamena. :)

I really should save the definitions to my hard-drive... I go looking for them, and paste them up every couple of weeks, or so... :)



(Note: the convention is: Hard Atheists believe "there is no god", Soft Atheists just "Don't believe" in god)

(Note: the convention is: An Agnostic TRULY is someone who believes it impossible to KNOW if there is a god or not... the 'atheist' agnostic is a corruption).

Very interesting, and thank you for those precisions. In that light, I can say I really am an agnostic, being as I consider that firmly believing that God exists or doesn't exist is not supported by any firm evidence. I can respect the beliefs of theists and atheists alike, but it's still my opinion that either are equally subjective beliefs, and that none of the two may be presented as facts.

owwwwwwwwwwww, I'm hurting my brain.
Why can't you eat soup in The Matrix?

Because it's a movie and, well, most American cinemas don't let you bring in outside food.

owwwwwwwwwwww, I'm hurting my brain.
Why can't you eat soup in The Matrix?

Because there IS no soup, in the Matrix...

Oh sure, there is something in the Matrix that might be CALLED soup... but, that isn't really soup, is it?

What does REAL soup taste like?

Because there IS no soup, in the Matrix...

Oh sure, there is something in the Matrix that might be CALLED soup... but, that isn't really soup, is it?

What does REAL soup taste like?

Chicken

Very interesting, and thank you for those precisions. In that light, I can say I really am an agnostic, being as I consider that firmly believing that God exists or doesn't exist is not supported by any firm evidence. I can respect the beliefs of theists and atheists alike, but it's still my opinion that either are equally subjective beliefs, and that none of the two may be presented as facts.

Welcome! :)

Ah, but do you believe that it is POSSIBLE to know?

Can you concieve that there COULD be an evidence that might PROVE god to be real, or might PROVE god to be false?

Because there IS no soup, in the Matrix...

Oh sure, there is something in the Matrix that might be CALLED soup... but, that isn't really soup, is it?

What does REAL soup taste like?

hee hee, good 'nuff, but my answer was because there is no spoon ha ha

Because it's a movie and, well, most American cinemas don't let you bring in outside food.
Only if you don't have a big enough purse hee hee

Chicken

Because, everything tastes like chicken?

But, what does chicken taste like?

I mean, you know what chicken tastes like TO YOU... but what does it REALLY taste like?

hee hee, good 'nuff, but my answer was because there is no spoon ha ha

I thought so... but I was pursuing the 'what is the Matrix' logic of what things REALLY taste like.... what is it... "Tasty Wheat"? Is that the food they discuss?

Only if you don't have a big enough purse hee hee
:)

I know have the mental image of someone sneaking a purse full of chicken soup into the theatre... :)

Because, everything tastes like chicken?

But, what does chicken taste like?

I mean, you know what chicken tastes like TO YOU... but what does it REALLY taste like?

I wouldn't know, I don't eat animals. It brings up my favorite quirk, when people say that water doesn't taste like anything. Of course it does, it tastes like water

:)

I know have the mental image of someone sneaking a purse full of chicken soup into the theatre... :)
It can be done mwah hah ha ha ha ha
Theatre concession prices are straight up highway robbery

I wouldn't know, I don't eat animals. It brings up my favorite quirk, when people say that water doesn't taste like anything. Of course it does, it tastes like water

Mmmm, animals... It isn't 'food' if nothing died, bleeding, to put it on your plate....

Welcome! :)

Ah, but do you believe that it is POSSIBLE to know?

Can you concieve that there COULD be an evidence that might PROVE god to be real, or might PROVE god to be false?


Hmmm....


Are you trying to make me doubt my doubts that god exists? Or are you trying to prove that proof can can be found ?


As I said earlier, I can't be too firmly rooted in agnosticism either, because there is not enough evidence pointing to the theory that the existence of god cannot be proved/disproved. I guess my agnosticism, in the purest sense of the term, is not supported by any more evidence than deism or atheism.

I'll try to think think up of a new word to describe me... Theoskepticist come to mind.

I'm no physicist, and reading a biography of Albert Einstein certainly doesn't qualify me as one, but think of it this way: before and after are time-dependent, measurable only against a "backdrop" of time. If something comes before something else, it comes before it it in time.

If the universe is conceived as infinite, and time exists within (the limitation of) the universe, as we know it to, then there can be no before time, before the universe. Time exists only within the universe. No beginning, and no end.

Hmmm....


Are you trying to make me doubt my doubts that god exists? Or are you trying to prove that proof can can be found ?


As I said earlier, I can't be too firmly rooted in agnosticism either, because there is not enough evidence pointing to the theory that the existence of god cannot be proved/disproved. I guess my agnosticism, in the purest sense of the term, is not supported by any more evidence than deism or atheism.

I'll try to think think up of a new word to describe me... Theoskepticist come to mind.

Apatheist? :)

I'm no physicist, and reading a biography of Albert Einstein certainly doesn't qualify me as one, but think of it this way: before and after are time-dependent, measurable only against a "backdrop" of time. If something comes before something else, it comes before it it in time.

If the universe is conceived as infinite, and time exists within (the limitation of) the universe, as we know it to, then there can be no before time, before the universe. Time exists only within the universe. No beginning, and no end.

Indeed.

The man only runs IN the room... he wasn't anywhere BEFORE the room, except in as much as he LEFT the room first...

Awwww, that is too sweet. :D :fluffle:
But, I have to break my own rules :eek: and disagree.
I married The Supreme Being! :fluffle:

I'm sorry you're both wrong I married HER. ;)

I'm sorry you're both wrong I married HER. ;)

I sure hope you arn't refering to:

Yes, and that Supreme Being is me!!! :)