NationStates Jolt Archive

again this is a serious post....
Christan's and Jews (i put you guys together because your basically the same but dont jump on me because of the whole Jesus=son of god questions
----Christans and Jews section.....----
1. Where was god during the Genocide of the Jews...
2.Where has he been for the last oh let say 2000 years.....
3. How could any father who loves there son his son die when he can stop it?
4.He send down 10 rules, 10 rules we have to follow or we go to a place where we will be tortured for all eterninty....but he loves us...
5.If God made a gigantic flood happen to kill basically everything because the world was evil how come he doesn't do that know when the world is like 2 times as more evil.....
6. If Adam and eve were the first people we are all related then how come the bible says incest is a sin? (I'm not a sick freak this is just something that bugs me.....

----Islam----
i really only have one problem with islam...i have more questions for the fundamentalists out there but I'm not that type of person to stereotype all Islams are like the bastards over in Iraq beheading civilians and what not...


1.if everything we did allah wanted to happen how could we have free will..but Allah says we have free will...how does that work out?

im not trying to start a fight i just want to hear you answers to my questions and debate about htem

im not trying to start a fight i just want to hear you answers to my questions and debate about htem
What, really?

1. Where was god during the Genocide of the Jews...

Everywhere.

2.Where has he been for the last oh let say 2000 years.....

Everywhere.

3. How could any father who loves there son his son die when he can stop it?

"No greater love hath man than to lay down his life for his friends."

4.He send down 10 rules, 10 rules we have to follow or we go to a place where we will be tortured for all eterninty....but he loves us...

Hell = separation from God (which would be torture for those who love God).

5.If God made a gigantic flood happen to kill basically everything because the world was evil how come he doesn't do that know when the world is like 2 times as more evil.....

If you take the story literally, God promised that such a flood would never occur again.

6. If Adam and eve were the first people we are all related then how come the bible says incest is a sin? (I'm not a sick freak this is just something that bugs me.....

Adam and Eve were only the first people if you ignore the first account of creation and assume that the second is literally true.

I can see how this is going to go....

The atheists are going to say "If there's an all-powerful God why the f*** does he allow such terrible things to happen?", citing the recent Asian earthquake which resulted in the deaths of more than 50,000 people as evidence.

The religious folk will retort with the only answer they have: "God works in mysterious ways......"

Everywhere.
-Where was he i didnt see him snuffing out the germans and seting the jews free



Everywhere.
-i haveent seen him anywhere?-

"No greater love hath man than to lay down his life for his friends."
-yea but i cant see how a father could just let his son be tortured then killed



Hell = separation from God (which would be torture for those who love God).
-so wait your saying we wouldnt be tortured like being streched? in my church they say you would....-



If you take the story literally, God promised that such a flood would never occur again.

-but there hasnt been and evedense of a flood of that purporsion...we would dig up really strange things....-



Adam and Eve were only the first people if you ignore the first account of creation and assume that the second is literally true.

-got me there i just want to say "yea but the bible says there the first but then i wouldnt be fair to the jews.....-


- what ever in here is my response..-

for the record im not a atheist i beleive in a higher power i just want somethings that really bug me to be explained to me....and then i debate over them...

----Islam----
i really only have one problem with islam...i have more questions for the fundamentalists out there but I'm not that type of person to stereotype all Islams are like the bastards over in Iraq beheading civilians and what not...


1.if everything we did allah wanted to happen how could we have free will..but Allah says we have free will...how does that work out?

im not trying to start a fight i just want to hear you answers to my questions and debate about htem

Actually Allah( wanted to ) make problems as we go through life. The problems are like temptation to do the bad resolution of the problem. Allah wants to see if we will do good deeds instead of the bad. We have free will to do what we want. It is just how strong our will to do good.

Actually Allah( wanted to ) make problems as we go through life. The problems are like temptation to do the bad resolution of the problem. Allah wants to see if we will do good deeds instead of the bad. We have free will to do what we want. It is just how strong our will to do good.
yes but he also says that if he didnt want it to happen it wouldnt happen so how could you have free will

-Where was he i didnt see him snuffing out the germans and seting the jews free

Free will's a bitch.

-i haveent seen him anywhere?-

You haven't looked.

-yea but i cant see how a father could just let his son be tortured then killed

In this case, Son=Father.


-so wait your saying we wouldnt be tortured like being streched? in my church they say you would....-

It's a common misconception.

-but there hasnt been and evedense of a flood of that purporsion...we would dig up really strange things....-

Notice the "if you take the story literally" part.

-got me there i just want to say "yea but the bible says there the first but then i wouldnt be fair to the jews.....-

Of course, the Bible doesn't really say that anyways, not in the first creation account anyways.

Actually Allah( wanted to ) make problems as we go through life. The problems are like temptation to do the bad resolution of the problem. Allah wants to see if we will do good deeds instead of the bad. We have free will to do what we want. It is just how strong our will to do good.

but he'll know how strong our will is. he made it. no?

No where in the Bible, Torah, Qu'ran or any other religious text does it say a higher power will make life perfect for anyone. Earthquakes and such things will happen.
As for bad people, people have free will, and some prefer to do mean things.
As for free will, (christian pov) Just because God already knows what you're going to do doesn't mean he makes you do it. I know college friends of mine will be sitting in a bar this weekend, I can tell you what time they'll get there, what stools they'll sit on and what they'll drink...yet I'm not forcing them to do it.

The other questions have been answered already, so I just want to shed a bit more light into the whole flood issue.

God doesnt destroy the world through a flood today because he promised he wouldnt. He will bring all this evil to an end though, just not through a flood (read the book of revelations to find out how).

There is plenty of evidence that there was a flood of such massive proportions. Scientists have been finding this evidence for decades. First, there is the archaeological phenomenon of finding stories of the great flood at the beginning of time in cultures throughout the world, from the native americans to the people of Messopotamia. Apparently all cultures throughout the world were aware of the flood in some way. But more concrete than the anecdotal evidence is the physical evidence. There have been all manner of fossils found in places they shouldnt be (sea creatures in the himalayas for example). Scientists must assume that all of the laws of science have always been true, so they cannot assume that a flood covered the entire earth due to the laws of thermodynamics which say the amount of water on the planet has never changed. So, instead they came up with the ice age hypothesis. The world wasnt covered in water, it was frozen. Its a good way of explaining their findings without violating the laws of thermodynamics.

The other questions have been answered already, so I just want to shed a bit more light into the whole flood issue.

God doesnt destroy the world through a flood today because he promised he wouldnt. He will bring all this evil to an end though, just not through a flood (read the book of revelations to find out how).

There is plenty of evidence that there was a flood of such massive proportions. Scientists have been finding this evidence for decades. First, there is the archaeological phenomenon of finding stories of the great flood at the beginning of time in cultures throughout the world, from the native americans to the people of Messopotamia. Apparently all cultures throughout the world were aware of the flood in some way. But more concrete than the anecdotal evidence is the physical evidence. There have been all manner of fossils found in places they shouldnt be (sea creatures in the himalayas for example). Scientists must assume that all of the laws of science have always been true, so they cannot assume that a flood covered the entire earth due to the laws of thermodynamics which say the amount of water on the planet has never changed. So, instead they came up with the ice age hypothesis. The world wasnt covered in water, it was frozen. Its a good way of explaining their findings without violating the laws of thermodynamics.

Apparently you haven't read up on this much. There *is* evidence for a *large* flood, simply not a *worldwide* flood. Of course, to seem worldwide to the people of the time, it would only have to cover a rather small (in comparison) portion of the Earth, which happens ot correspond to exactly where the evidence is that it occurred.

Un poco point. If God created us without free will you would moan that we were just robots. So Of course some people are goin to choose to do bad things and if God intervened everytime something bad was going down you wouldnt have free will.

Also the incest thing, it was declared wrong after that happened...for good reason as well!

You say this is a serious post...next time you make a serious post get your facts right before you start, you should be jumped on for saying Jews and Christians are the same.

[QUOTE=Neoma]again this is a serious post....
Christan's and Jews (i put you guys together because your basically the same but dont jump on me because of the whole Jesus=son of god questions
----Christans and Jews section.....----
1. Where was god during the Genocide of the Jews...
2.Where has he been for the last oh let say 2000 years.....
3. How could any father who loves there son his son die when he can stop it?
4.He send down 10 rules, 10 rules we have to follow or we go to a place where we will be tortured for all eterninty....but he loves us...
5.If God made a gigantic flood happen to kill basically everything because the world was evil how come he doesn't do that know when the world is like 2 times as more evil.....
6. If Adam and eve were the first people we are all related then how come the bible says incest is a sin? (I'm not a sick freak this is just something that bugs me.....

1.god was with them, he wouldnt stop hitler, he wanted his people to rely on him for salvation and comfort. before in the bible when god saved isreal they always lost faith in him soon after, helping those who have faith is better than helping those who do not.
2. god is in heaven, after he sent down his son, he waited for people to ask him for help, to believe in his son, who he sent down to take on our sins, so that we may get reconnected with god.
3. god sent jesus to die for our sins to show us (his other sons and daughters) how much he loved us, god knew jesus would be crucified and jesus did too, god took that sacrifice, and jesus willingly died for us so that we would know god once again.
4. god gave us the ten commandments, our society is more or less based on those 10 laws, and he gave us a conscience to tell us when we broke those rules, god forgives, only if we ask for it.
5. after the first flood god vowed to never again make a flood and destroy the earth. and the world is not as evil as it was back then, we still have a good number of decent people.
6. i dont really know, i guess ill find out when i go to heaven.

3. god sent jesus to die for our sins to show us (his other sons and daughters) how much he loved us

i always kinda thought jesus would have been the favourite child.

Christan's and Jews (i put you guys together because your basically the same

Actually, Judaism and Islam have more in common than Judaism and Christianity.

1. Where was god during the Genocide of the Jews...

With the Jews.

2.Where has he been for the last oh let say 2000 years.....

Here and abouts. Mostly where he's needed.

3. How could any father who loves there son his son die when he can stop it?

This doesn't apply to God. God never had a son.

4.He send down 10 rules, 10 rules we have to follow or we go to a place where we will be tortured for all eterninty....but he loves us...

He sent 613, not just 10.

5.If God made a gigantic flood happen to kill basically everything because the world was evil how come he doesn't do that know when the world is like 2 times as more evil.....

He said he wouldn't do that again. Covenant with Noah.

6. If Adam and eve were the first people we are all related then how come the bible says incest is a sin? (I'm not a sick freak this is just something that bugs me.....

The Bible doesn't say incest is a sin until thousands of years after Adam.


1.if everything we did allah wanted to happen how could we have free will..but Allah says we have free will...how does that work out?


Don't think of free will as free. If a large rock is flying at your head and I tell you it's about to hit you, you can choose whether or not to listen to me. If you listen to me, you might duck. If you don't, the rock will hit you anyway.

You say this is a serious post...next time you make a serious post get your facts right before you start, you should be jumped on for saying Jews and Christians are the same.

You're going to complain about *that*?

You do realize that Christians are simply Jews who believe they know who the Messiah is, right?

Allah knows how strong one's will is. Like someone pointed out, he made it. But the tests are not for Him to find out how strong our will is, that would be stupid. (The Old Man Upstairs has been around forever, but I doubt he's that bored!) He did it as proof. He's basically telling humanity:

"Hey guys, listen up. These are my rules. These are the limits. This is what I want you to do. This is what I don't want you to do. I want YOU to choose what to do, but in the bloody end, I will know which way you'll choose anyway."

Now, you may ask, why the HELL would he go through all that rubbish? Because He writes down everything we do. Every bloody thing. And, in the Day of Judgement, when he asks us: "Why the heck did you run over your own mother, you fool?", and you answer, "what?", he can have proof of the incident. He can rewind the tape of your life, and sit on the couch with you all day, analyzing the instances in which you fucked up, thus justifying why you'll rot in hell for the next one trillion dog/human/God/Nebula years..

Also, when he asks you who your Lord is, and you answer "Homer Simpson!", he can show you what you did in life, and how you did not listen to His message and His calling, and how your stubbornness and refusal to accept His religion meant nothing to him, but will mean eternal damnation for you..

Nice story, no? :)

Now, I believe this is true. You may believe this is rubbish. The only way to find out whether or not it's true is to die. So yeah, I'm sticking to my story, you stick to yours. But if I happen to come across you in the line heading to hell, hangin' out with Ceasar, George W. Bush, and Condi Rice, I'll just point and laugh: "I told you so!" :D

I've never had anyproblems with any deity.

;)

You do realize that Christians are simply Jews who believe they know who the Messiah is, right?

Self defeating statement. If you believe you know who the Messiah is, then you're technically not practicing Judaism. If you don't keep kosher and grow your beard, you're technically not practicing Judaism. If you have images in your home representing the crucifiction or God, you're technically not practicing Judaism.

Christians believe Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of Tanakh. Christians, therefore, believe Jesus fulfilled Torah. Jesus didn't, hence, Judaism and Christianity are not even close in comparison.

I can accept that Christianity stands on its own. If you wish to follow Jesus, then do so and do so with all of your heart. However, if you require the rearrangement of another religion's beliefs in order to justify your own, then your faith is weak and your religion a lie.

your a stupid mofo arent you you do realise that Bush beleives in god and i imagine so did ceaser and you completly left out hm.. lets see hitler, gangis khan and a bunch more dirty bastards i care not to mention. in the bible it states you can do as many bad things as possible in your life, but as long as you beleive in god and ask his forgiveness you get off free, now thats a justice system the criminals of today would be proud to have wouldnt they. but us guys who are relatively nice people, me for example, are completly screwed because we could donate all the money in the world to some worldwide orphange, and wed still be goin to hell. wow thats a great system huh the bad get treated fairly and the good get treated like shit all because someone doesnt either like you or aree with your views.... wait that sounds more like a dictatorship to me

anyways you people are freaking confusing beacuse none of you have the same dam story jesus was god, jesus was the son of god. neither you freaking idiots hes the son of mary and the holy ghost, read the bible it says the ghost impregnated mary not god. oh yeah by the way if god knew jesus was going to die why did he get mad. it says in th bible as soon as jesus was dead he brought in a thunder storm and almost torched the city to the ground. besides why was he mad in the first place, if jesus was such a great guy wouldnt that mean hes going to heaven which he did and is seated on the right hand of the father, so wait that brings up the question again if hes seated on the right hand of the father wouldnt that make him two differnt people/spirits/light and who is on the left hand by the way.

the flood yes their is alot of evidence that their was a great flood but no one can say that this/these floods were at the same time. i mean i know they might seam like great flood but when you think about how big floods can be did any of these people really know that it covered the world and if so how? in a time when people thought the world was flat how could they have possibly known that the entire earth was covered with water? and where the hell did all this water go and i swear to god if you say the ice caps you are so freaking wrong, unless the world was as close to the sun as lets say mars it would have been impossible for the arctics to not freeze the water. so where did all this water go, into space perhaps. and if their was a great flood i doubt a couple of ducks could have kept some native american afloat because your implying that everyone saw it and thats a native american story so it must be true two ducks were able to hold a man above the water for 40 days and 40 nights without food and in salt water, the human body can go only go for a matter of days without water and even less if they drink salt water. then theirs the ark story ahh yes a mystery in itself, do you know how big that ark would have had to have been, i mean i know they say it in the bible but umm well lets just say to hold all the animals of the planet it would have to have been bigger not to mention plant life, i mean theirs something we cant even count yet though im sure scientists are on their way with a bigger number name. so how did all of those come about, i know they appeared. oh and the rainbow thats an easy one everyone knows that if you have light coming from behind you and it just got done raining you could see a rainbow.

ok thats it for me i know its long but you buggers would/will have found ways to disprove me by saying something faithfull like god made it so or something as equaly stupidly romantic. so i thought id give yall strivers something to shoot for

Self defeating statement. If you believe you know who the Messiah is, then you're technically not practicing Judaism. If you don't keep kosher and grow your beard, you're technically not practicing Judaism. If you have images in your home representing the crucifiction or God, you're technically not practicing Judaism.

Christians believe Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of Tanakh. Christians, therefore, believe Jesus fulfilled Torah. Jesus didn't, hence, Judaism and Christianity are not even close in comparison.

I can accept that Christianity stands on its own. If you wish to follow Jesus, then do so and do so with all of your heart. However, if you require the rearrangement of another religion's beliefs in order to justify your own, then your faith is weak and your religion a lie.

OMG they both beleive in god right, ooh wow a few minor differences and you completly blow your LID!!!! and i cant beleive you just called his religion a lie that is such like you religious bastards always out to make others feel bad about their religion, "oooh the germans commited mass genocide on my people so all you fuckers of christianity owe us for the amount of torment that he put us through", you spineless ass

and you know for all that shyt you just said you were completely false if jews dont show any omage to god their god, (who is the same god as the christians which he was trying to point out), why do they wear hats all the time and i dont care what the hell you call them they go over your head theyre hats. or why do they always have beards because their paying omage, the only thing differnt about the christians omage is that its materialistic. stupid ass hole nect time you start barking out that someone religion is false be sure to get YOUR facts straight. dirty bastard

The funny thing about bush, is that he believes in the bible only when it is convenient. For example, about the part where it says rich men should sell all their crap and give the money to the poor? hmmm... Also for you intolerant Christian dickwads out there, here's a quote for y'all: "If you can't stand to have your faith challenged, you obviously have very weak faith." In other words, if you parents don't want your children's souls corrupted by seeing a Christmas tree (this is to non-Christians) then you didn't teach them to well didya? No! If your children believe strongly, seeing a tree isn't going to corrupt their souls and turn them against your faith. Here's my problems with the Christian faith:

1. as already stated, in regard to the Bible, either go the whole hog or none. If you want to translate the Bible literally, believe all of it. Especially don't use the shit about Sodomy if you don't also give up all your goods.

2. The Earth is not 6,000 years old! give it up! come on, there is soooooo much evidence to the contrary in regard to hwo old the Earth is, I mean come on people, you are living in denial!

OMG they both beleive in god right, ooh wow a few minor differences and you completly blow your LID!!!!

I hate to tell you this, but by Jewish law, worshipping a man (such as Jesus) is one of the worst forms of blasphemy. I wouldn't call that a minor difference.

I'd call that a pretty major difference.

If someone walked up to you and said, "I don't believe Jesus died for my sins, but I am a Christian." what would you be thinking? Seems a pretty important part of being a Christian that you believe Jesus died for your sins, doesn't it?

Anyway, as for the rest of your drivel. Calm down, bubba. I didn't blow my lid ... but you sure did blow yours.

I can see how this is going to go....

The atheists are going to say "If there's an all-powerful God why the f*** does he allow such terrible things to happen?", citing the recent Asian earthquake which resulted in the deaths of more than 50,000 people as evidence.

The religious folk will retort with the only answer they have: "God works in mysterious ways......"

Or he could just be a bit of a bastard.

The atheists are going to say "If there's an all-powerful God why the f*** does he allow such terrible things to happen?", citing the recent Asian earthquake which resulted in the deaths of more than 50,000 people as evidence.

The religious folk will retort with the only answer they have: "God works in mysterious ways......"

Actually they could answer in many, many more sophisticated ways than that. They could appeal to the greater good, the irrelevance of this life compared to the afterlife, a non-interventionist God etc. etc. Just because you are unaware of the arguments do not assume they do not exist.

yes but he also says that if he didnt want it to happen it wouldnt happen so how could you have free will

Very simply. God/Jehovah/Allah has allowed us to have free will, in order to fulfill the greater good. If free will was not in the greater good He would not allow us to have it. Since it is necessary for the greater good, though, we will always have it.

Or put it this way: I offer you tea or coffee. If I wanted to I could take the coffee away. That does not mean you are not free to choose if I don't take it away, though.


As for bad people, people have free will, and some prefer to do mean things.
As for free will, (christian pov) Just because God already knows what you're going to do doesn't mean he makes you do it. I know college friends of mine will be sitting in a bar this weekend, I can tell you what time they'll get there, what stools they'll sit on and what they'll drink...yet I'm not forcing them to do it.

Yes, but if you could also tell me exactly what they would say at every point, which part of their anatomy they'd choose to scratch, when they'd cross/uncross their legs etc. would they still have free will?

your a stupid mofo arent you you do realise that Bush beleives in god and i imagine so did ceaser and you completly left out hm.. lets see hitler, gangis khan and a bunch more dirty bastards i care not to mention. in the bible it states you can do as many bad things as possible in your life, but as long as you beleive in god and ask his forgiveness you get off free,

Your views are typical of one who has little knowledge about christian teachings. The funnier thing though, is that you seem to have no knowledge of history at all. The bible says that you will know if someone is a christian by their works, this rules out Hitler. Ghengis Khan is ruled out by the fact that he was a polytheist and shamanist who believed in many gods and spirits and never once claimed to be a christian. Where you came up with the funny idea that Ghengis Khan may have been a christian is a mystery to me, Christianity hadnt even reached asia by then. Im not sure which of the Caesars you are reffering to here, but most of them were polytheistic, meaning they believed in many gods, not in one god.

Christianity does not teach that you can simply believe in God and get off free. In fact, it says the opposite, it clearly states that believing in God is not enough for even the demons believe in God.

neither you freaking idiots hes the son of mary and the holy ghost, read the bible it says the ghost impregnated mary not god

Where in the bible does it say this? could you tell me the verse? there are only 4 gospels (where the story of Jesus is found) so you should be able to find this verse easily. Ill give you a hint, it doesnt say that anywhere in the bible.

oh yeah by the way if god knew jesus was going to die why did he get mad. it says in th bible as soon as jesus was dead he brought in a thunder storm and almost torched the city to the ground.

No, it doesnt say that. It says there was a great earthquake and the curtain at the temple was torn in half. This didnt happen because God was angry. This was a symbol. The curtain is what separated the most holy place (where God's presence existed) from the area where the common person could walk into. The reason the curtain was torn down is because Jesus' death made it possible for anyone to enter into God's presence. The veil separating God from mankind was broken upon Jesus' death. This had nothing to do with anger.

2. The Earth is not 6,000 years old! give it up! come on, there is soooooo much evidence to the contrary in regard to hwo old the Earth is, I mean come on people, you are living in denial!
many christians dont believe that
nowhere in the bible does it relate to us the age of the earth
its just some guy somewhere out there doing some figuring and a whole bunch of people just happening to believe him
a lot of "christian" beliefs are not actually in the bible, but church dogma or some other crap
i imagine so did ceaser and you completly left out hm.. lets see hitler
so i presume you are an atheist
caesar (presumably julius is whom you meant) believed in the roman gods if anybody, for he lived before the time of j.c.
anyways you people are freaking confusing beacuse none of you have the same dam story jesus was god, jesus was the son of god. neither you freaking idiots hes the son of mary and the holy ghost, read the bible it says the ghost impregnated mary not god. oh yeah by the way if god knew jesus was going to die why did he get mad. it says in th bible as soon as jesus was dead he brought in a thunder storm and almost torched the city to the ground. besides why was he mad in the first place, if jesus was such a great guy wouldnt that mean hes going to heaven which he did and is seated on the right hand of the father, so wait that brings up the question again if hes seated on the right hand of the father wouldnt that make him two differnt people/spirits/light and who is on the left hand by the way.
no, the father, son and the spirit are one person...
also, the "ghost" didn't have sex w/ mary or anything, its more like an implanted embryo
where was god "mad" that jesus was gonna die?
god freking sent jesus to die...
where the hell did god bring in a storm and torch jerusalem (presumably jerusalem is the city you're referring to)
to address your "hand" problem: your chest and your arm are both part of the same person, so can't your arm sit to the right of your chest and yet be part of the same person?

Christan's and Jews (i put you guys together because your basically the same but dont jump on me because of the whole Jesus=son of god questions
Judaism and Christianity are two very different religions.

4.He send down 10 rules, 10 rules we have to follow or we go to a place where we will be tortured for all eterninty....but he loves us...
Jews don't believe in heaven or hell, just "home".

5.If God made a gigantic flood happen to kill basically everything because the world was evil how come he doesn't do that know when the world is like 2 times as more evil.....
That flood never happened.

6. If Adam and eve were the first people we are all related then how come the bible says incest is a sin? (I'm not a sick freak this is just something that bugs me.....
The NT tends to contradict itself.

Actually they could answer in many, many more sophisticated ways than that. They could appeal to the greater good, the irrelevance of this life compared to the afterlife, a non-interventionist God etc. etc. Just because you are unaware of the arguments do not assume they do not exist.

Nah. Religious faith is irrational and so in the end all these arguments can be summed up in the simplistic belief that God works in mysterious ways.

Free will's a bitch.



You haven't looked.



In this case, Son=Father.



It's a common misconception.



Notice the "if you take the story literally" part.



Of course, the Bible doesn't really say that anyways, not in the first creation account anyways.

w/e w/e

1. what do you mean where was God? he was in heaven. Why should God come down and protect the people who rejectHis Son Jesus Christ? even though i m not endorsing teh holocaust, as it was a horible and disgusting event. (taht not a very good answer, is it?)

2.for the last 2000 years he's been in heaven still, got a problem with Him being ther or something? why should he have to come down to a sinfull and cursed earth?

3.er He didnt stop it because Jesus died to take away our sins and so we could go to heaven, where God is. that's like ht emain point of christianity! shouldn't you love it if someone gave their life for you? well jesus did, he didnt have to, his father didnt make him, it was his own wish because he loved you and me.

4.its really quite easy to keep some of the rules: dont kil anyone and dont steal someones wife/husband or break up your marriage to get another partner, there's two i dont even have to try about the others just come with your conscience like dont steal or dont lie not too hard is it?

5.because hes waiting fop the end of the world (armageddon) when he can do worse

6.the bible does not say that until about 1000 years later so that it would be posible for cain to get a wife (there's the answer to that question that bugs most non-christians) oh yeah i dont get how incest comes into your question anyhow. incest today causes genetic mutations that are not profitabnle as we all have small errors in our bodies so any family mebbers producing a child would in effect amplify these errors. back in the beginning there were no errors as God made a perfect world, the erroprs came in when Adam & Eve sinned so back then the errors woyuld be very minor and rare so incest would not have cause a problem though i very much doubt it happened that often

again this is a serious post....
Christan's and Jews (i put you guys together because your basically the same but dont jump on me because of the whole Jesus=son of god questions
----Christans and Jews section.....----
1. Where was god during the Genocide of the Jews...
2.Where has he been for the last oh let say 2000 years.....
3. How could any father who loves there son his son die when he can stop it?
4.He send down 10 rules, 10 rules we have to follow or we go to a place where we will be tortured for all eterninty....but he loves us...
5.If God made a gigantic flood happen to kill basically everything because the world was evil how come he doesn't do that know when the world is like 2 times as more evil.....
6. If Adam and eve were the first people we are all related then how come the bible says incest is a sin? (I'm not a sick freak this is just something that bugs me.....

----Islam----
i really only have one problem with islam...i have more questions for the fundamentalists out there but I'm not that type of person to stereotype all Islams are like the bastards over in Iraq beheading civilians and what not...


1.if everything we did allah wanted to happen how could we have free will..but Allah says we have free will...how does that work out?

im not trying to start a fight i just want to hear you answers to my questions and debate about htem

1. He was setting things in motion, to bring the jew together, and rebuild thier country.

2. Bringing the world out of the dark ages, and into the age of reason.

3. Considering that when you die, you go to heaven, Him letting His Son die, is the same as bringing Him home.

4. 10 rules that are the basic laws in any civilized society, and are the guiding principals of any decent human beings, it also says he will forgive us our sins, if we belive.

5. He said he would never destroy the world again.

6. Incest nowadays results in a whole bunch of birth defects, because of lack of genetic variation. Back then, perhaps it wasnt a problem, If you look at all the rules, guidelines and laws in the bible, each one turns out to be beneficial to follow out, whether sanitary, healthfull, or otherwise helpfull. Such as not eating certain types of animals, each one of those animals, if not raised, and cared for right, can be harmfull if eaten, and many are just plain bad for you. The laws of seperating the sick from the healthy, the way of taking care of wounds, all that, makes perfect sense from a medical standpoint. Considering they diddnt understand micro organism's, virus's, and germs back then, if you look at the bible, all its rules appear to be as if someone who understood what everything was, wrote it for them, in an attempt to keep them safe and healthy.

1. I dont really know a whole lot about islam, havnt had time to study it. But I do know a little about free will. From a psychological standpoint, its debatable if there is such a thing. Some schools of thought argue that a persons actions are a result of how thier raised and trained. Others, thats that its biological, and still others argue that we do have free will, and do think for ourselves.
From a christian standpoint, god knows what were gonna do in advance, but he gave us free will, and will not interfere with what were going to do. He gives us options, its still our choice.
Islamic standpoint, I'm not really sure, I assume that the idea is that allah guides our actions, according to his master plan, I'm not really sure.

I was raised christian, but having a god seems to be too easy of an answer, evolution just seems so fake, and so full of inconsistensy, and lies, that I just cant get behind it. 100 years ago, most of the stuff we know for fact today, were unknown, and completly unheard of. Maybe in another 100 years, we will come to know more about universe we live in, but untill then, I'm keeping my options open, and learning everything I can.

again this is a serious post....
Christan's and Jews (i put you guys together because your basically the same but dont jump on me because of the whole Jesus=son of god questions
----Christans and Jews section.....----
1. Where was god during the Genocide of the Jews...
To take this from a Christian perspective (no offense to those of you who are Jewish), the Jews rejected Christ's (and thus God's) message, so the status of "God's people" ultimately passed from the Jews to the Church. That probably more or less explains why he didn't interfere, as to why he allowed the genocide to occur, I would say this is part of a plan that hasn't unfolded in entirety yet. Actually, it has probably helped the Jews when you look at the fact that they had been persecuted for centuries before that, the incident of the holocaust pretty much brought that to a climax and end (sure, there's still anti-semitism, but not nearly as much).

2.Where has he been for the last oh let say 2000 years.....
1) In the church
2) Preparing his army for the final all-out struggle for this planet

3. How could any father who loves there son his son die when he can stop it?
Assuming you're talking about Jesus here:
To stop it would have sacrificed all of us. This is one of those situations where its better to sacrifice one and save many than to save one and loose many, the same mentality the folks on the fourth plane had on 9-11.
Also, He already knew about the resurrection.

4.He send down 10 rules, 10 rules we have to follow or we go to a place where we will be tortured for all eterninty....but he loves us...
Two misconceptions here:
1) The law was sent after they were saved. Read how it starts: "I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery, therefore..."
The law was not a condition for acceptance, it was the response.

2) This is where we forget the underlying reason for the whole sin issue. What is sin? It is an act of rebellion against God. He does love us, but if we are attacking his kingdom, he cannot sit there and let us keep at it, he has to defend his kingdom and his people. A good situational analogy to compare this to is the Turkish attack on Constantinople. The Turkish armies were composed of Janisaries, basically European slaves. I would imagine many of them had family in Constantinople, and that family loved them like you would love any family. However, that doesn't overule the fact that they are still attacking the city and have to be stopped, ultimately by killing them.

Look at the commandments, they are ultimately divided into two groups: First, direct challenging of the authority of God or the authority put into place by God (ie. parents). Second, attacks on our fellow man, which divide God's people.

Why did this rebellion happen? Free choice. Why couldn't God create beings that would have free-choice and not rebel? They wouldn't really have a choice then, would they.

5.If God made a gigantic flood happen to kill basically everything because the world was evil how come he doesn't do that know when the world is like 2 times as more evil.....
He promised not to redo the flood, for one thing. For another, he is not moving right now because he wants to let as many as can come to him.
When he does move (as described in Revelation), it will be far more catostrophic than a flood.

6. If Adam and eve were the first people we are all related then how come the bible says incest is a sin? (I'm not a sick freak this is just something that bugs me.....


There is a difference between sins committed when there is no choice and sins committed willfully. In the case of Adam and Eve and the next couple of generations, and the repeated episode with Noah's family, there was no choice. Therefore, they wouldn't be held accountable for that. On the other hand, we would.

First i'm glad you kept the list small: I can't answer a 100 page essay in a day. I'm begrudingly called a Mormon but seeing as we are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints, we are Christians becuse we follow Christ yet not Christians if you ask most Christians. Mostly because we believe Jesus, Heavenly Father, and the Holy Ghost are three distinct personages.


again this is a serious post....
Christan's and Jews (i put you guys together because your basically the same but dont jump on me because of the whole Jesus=son of god questions
----Christans and Jews section.....----
1. Where was god during the Genocide of the Jews...

Mostly screaming at the Christians to start listening to him again. Sure, they haven't been listening althroughout Dark Ages, but during last 100 years people have started listening. So he was in heaven trying to get his message out.

2.Where has he been for the last oh let say 2000 years.....

In heaven trying to get his message out, but Popes don't have the Preisthood save the Arronic so they can't get Revelation. So he couldn't get a good Prophet from the existing churches. He also needed a land of religious freedom so his new recruit wouldn't be killed. So he needed Amerrica to be formed. Once this happened he instructing Joseph Smith. The rest is history.
]
3. How could any father who loves there son his son die when he can stop it?

Because the son told his dad that he wanted to do it. A father learns to respect his sons wishes.

4.He send down 10 rules, 10 rules we have to follow or we go to a place where we will be tortured for all eterninty....but he loves us...

Haha, that is just the basics. Those rules are just to get terestrial kingdom. If you break them and don't get repentance than you are sent to Teletrial kingdom and probably Spirit Prison instead of Paradise.

5.If God made a gigantic flood happen to kill basically everything because the world was evil how come he doesn't do that know when the world is like 2 times as more evil.....

Heavenly Father and his son Jesus (who was ruling during that time) said he would not do that ever again. He means it.

6. If Adam and eve were the first people we are all related then how come the bible says incest is a sin? (I'm not a sick freak this is just something that bugs me.....

Incest like brother and sister or second cousins? Brother and sister incests is wrong even with Adam and Eve.(Adam was not Eve's physical brother)
To my knowledge only first cousins cause mutations and deformations.

----Islam----
i really only have one problem with islam...i have more questions for the fundamentalists out there but I'm not that type of person to stereotype all Islams are like the bastards over in Iraq beheading civilians and what not...


1.if everything we did allah wanted to happen how could we have free will..but Allah says we have free will...how does that work out?

im not trying to start a fight i just want to hear you answers to my questions and debate about htem
I think what that means is Allah has a master plan and few things we can do will change the overall direction or result of that plan.

2. Bringing the world out of the dark ages, and into the age of reason.


Whoa! Euro-centric history rides again! Just because Europe was wallowing in its own plague-ridden, ghost and goblin fearing illiteracy in the 2nd half of the 1st millenium doesn't mean the rest of the world was.

Look a little farther east.

If someone walked up to you and said, "I don't believe Jesus died for my sins, but I am a Christian." what would you be thinking? Seems a pretty important part of being a Christian that you believe Jesus died for your sins, doesn't it?




Jesus died for the revolution!

Nah. Religious faith is irrational and so in the end all these arguments can be summed up in the simplistic belief that God works in mysterious ways.

Hmm, when it comes to a rationality contest between you and Descartes I know who I'd favour...

[QUOTE=Neoma]again this is a serious post....
Christan's and Jews (i put you guys together because your basically the same but dont jump on me because of the whole Jesus=son of god questions
----Christans and Jews section.....----
1. Where was god during the Genocide of the Jews...
2.Where has he been for the last oh let say 2000 years.....
3. How could any father who loves there son his son die when he can stop it?
4.He send down 10 rules, 10 rules we have to follow or we go to a place where we will be tortured for all eterninty....but he loves us...
5.If God made a gigantic flood happen to kill basically everything because the world was evil how come he doesn't do that know when the world is like 2 times as more evil.....
6[QUOTE]. If Adam and eve were the first people we are all related then how come the bible says incest is a sin?

This post is a little long but it is very interesting reading from the Baha'i Faith.

If we take this story in its apparent meaning, according to the interpretation of the masses, it is indeed extraordinary. The intelligence cannot accept it, affirm it, or imagine it; for such arrangements, such details, such speeches and reproaches are far from being those of an intelligent man, how much less of the Divinity -- that Divinity Who has organized this infinite universe in the most perfect form, and its innumerable inhabitants with absolute system, strength and perfection.

We must reflect a little: if the literal meaning of this story were attributed to a wise man, certainly all would logically deny that this arrangement, this invention, could have emanated from an intelligent being. Therefore, this story of Adam and Eve who ate from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise, must be thought of simply as a symbol. It contains divine mysteries and universal meanings, and it is capable of marvelous explanations. Only those who are initiated into mysteries, and those who are near the Court of the All-Powerful, are aware of these secrets. Hence these verses of the Bible have numerous meanings.

We will explain one of them, and we will say: Adam signifies the heavenly spirit of Adam, and Eve His human soul. For in some passages in the Holy Books where women are mentioned, they represent the soul of man. The tree of good and evil signifies the human world; for the spiritual and divine world is purely good and absolutely luminous, but in the human world light and darkness, good and evil, exist as opposite conditions.

The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the human world. This attachment of the spirit to the human world led the soul and spirit of Adam from the world of freedom to the world of bondage and caused Him to turn from the Kingdom of Unity to the human world. When the soul and spirit of Adam entered the human world, He came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the height of purity and absolute goodness, He entered into the world of good and evil.

The tree of life is the highest degree of the world of existence: the position of the Word of God, and the supreme Manifestation. Therefore, that position has been preserved; and, at the appearance of the most noble supreme Manifestation, it became apparent and clear. For the position of Adam, with regard to the appearance and manifestation of the divine perfections, was in the embryonic condition; the position of Christ was the condition of maturity and the age of reason; and the rising of the Greatest Luminary was the condition of the perfection of the essence and of the qualities. This is why in the supreme Paradise the tree of life is the expression for the center of absolutely pure sanctity -- that is to say, of the divine supreme Manifestation. From the days of Adam until the days of Christ, They spoke little of eternal life and the heavenly universal perfections. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits.
[1 Bahá'u'lláh.]

Now consider how far this meaning conforms to the reality. For the spirit and the soul of Adam, when they were attached to the human world, passed from the world of freedom into the world of bondage, and His descendants continued in bondage. This attachment of the soul and spirit to the human world, which is sin, was inherited by the descendants of Adam, and is the serpent which is always in the midst of, and at enmity with, the spirits and the descendants of Adam. That enmity continues and endures. For attachment to the world has become the cause of the bondage of spirits, and this bondage is identical with sin, which has been transmitted from Adam to His posterity. It is because of this attachment that men have been deprived of essential spirituality and exalted position.

When the sanctified breezes of Christ and the holy light of the Greatest Luminary [1] were spread abroad, the human realities -- that is to say, those who turned toward the Word of God and received the profusion of His bounties -- were saved from this attachment and sin, obtained everlasting life, were delivered from the chains of bondage, and attained to the world of liberty. They were freed from the vices of the human world, and were blessed by the virtues of the Kingdom. This is the meaning of the words of Christ, "I gave My blood for the life of the world"[2] -- that is to say, I have chosen all these troubles, these sufferings, calamities, and even the greatest martyrdom, to attain this object, the remission of sins (that is, the detachment of spirits from the human world, and their attraction to the divine world) in order that souls may arise who will be the very essence of the guidance of mankind, and the manifestations of the perfections of the Supreme Kingdom.
[1 Bahá'u'lláh.]
[2 Cf. John 6:51.]

Observe that if, according to the suppositions of the People of the Book,[1] the meaning were taken in its exoteric sense, it would be absolute injustice and complete predestination. If Adam sinned by going near the forbidden tree, what was the sin of the glorious Abraham, and what was the error of Moses the Interlocutor? What was the crime of Noah the Prophet? What was the transgression of Joseph the Truthful? What was the iniquity of the Prophets of God, and what was the trespass of John the Chaste? Would the justice of God have allowed these enlightened Manifestations, on account of the sin of Adam, to find torment in hell until Christ came and by the sacrifice of Himself saved them from excruciating tortures? Such an *126* idea is beyond every law and rule and cannot be accepted by any intelligent person.
[1 Jews and Christians.]

No; it means what has already been said: Adam is the spirit of Adam, and Eve is His soul; the tree is the human world, and the serpent is that attachment to this world which constitutes sin, and which has infected the descendants of Adam. Christ by His holy breezes saved men from this attachment and freed them from this sin. The sin in Adam is relative to His position. Although from this attachment there proceed results, nevertheless, attachment to the earthly world, in relation to attachment to the spiritual world, is considered as a sin. The good deeds of the righteous are the sins of the Near Ones. This is established. So bodily power is not only defective in relation to spiritual power; it is weakness in comparison. In the same way, physical life, in comparison with eternal life in the Kingdom, is considered as death. So Christ called the physical life death, and said: "Let the dead bury their dead."[1] Though those souls possessed physical life, yet in His eyes that life was death.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 122)

1. Where was god during the Genocide of the Jews...
"God prepares the medicine before he sends the curse." ~The Talmud. This means that the curse, in this case the Holocoust may have been to get for the Jewish people some great rewards. And it did! It opened the world's eyes for the first time. Anti-Semitism was nearly whiped out! It helped Jews to immigrate to America. And most importantly, it helped bring about the creation of the State of Israel.
2.Where has he been for the last oh let say 2000 years.....
Have you noticed that on the day of the creation of Israel 6 or more Arab nations attacked it, trying their hardest to destroy it. But they didn't, and war after war Israel lives on.
3. How could any father who loves there son his son die when he can stop it?
Jesus was neither the messiah, nor the son of God, and not a prophet either, so this question is not applicable.
4.He send down 10 rules, 10 rules we have to follow or we go to a place where we will be tortured for all eterninty....but he loves us...
Who here is a parent with kids? Well you know that you have to punish your kids some day right? I mean if you let them get away with everything they'll be spoiled. So why do you ground them with "no TV for a week" or not let them be out past four? Not because you hate them, but because you LOVE them! And anyway, the idea of "follow these laws or suffer" is an entirely Christian concept.
5.If God made a gigantic flood happen to kill basically everything because the world was evil how come he doesn't do that know when the world is like 2 times as more evil.....
Read the Bible. It says something like "...and never again shall there be a flood to destory all the Earth."
6. If Adam and eve were the first people we are all related then how come the bible says incest is a sin? (I'm not a sick freak this is just something that bugs me.....
The Torah was not yet given to Adam and Eve, it would take over 20 generations for that to happen. Therefor, they were not obligated to perform any of the 613 commandments. Actually, they had one, which was not to eat from the Tree of Knowlege of Good and Evil, but that was all they had.

Self defeating statement. If you believe you know who the Messiah is, then you're technically not practicing Judaism.

Really? If you take this statement to it's logical end, the Jews can never ever find the Messiah, because then they won't be Jews anymore.

Christians believe Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of Tanakh. Christians, therefore, believe Jesus fulfilled Torah.

Torah being a part of Judaism. You are really picking at straws here. By your logic, Catholics and Protestants are not both Christians because they don't believe the Scripture is fulfilled in exactly the same way.

Jesus didn't, hence, Judaism and Christianity are not even close in comparison.

This is a matter of belief and interpretation, not fact.

I can accept that Christianity stands on its own.

Without Judaism, there would be no Christianity.

If you wish to follow Jesus, then do so and do so with all of your heart. However, if you require the rearrangement of another religion's beliefs in order to justify your own, then your faith is weak and your religion a lie.

Who said anything about "Rearranging" anything? You said above that Christianity believes that Christ was the fulfillment of the Torah, therefore the Torah is very important to Christianity. What does that have to do with rearrangement?

again this is a serious post....
Christan's and Jews (i put you guys together because your basically the same but dont jump on me because of the whole Jesus=son of god questions
----Christans and Jews section.....----
1. Where was god during the Genocide of the Jews...
2.Where has he been for the last oh let say 2000 years.....
3. How could any father who loves there son his son die when he can stop it?
4.He send down 10 rules, 10 rules we have to follow or we go to a place where we will be tortured for all eterninty....but he loves us...
5.If God made a gigantic flood happen to kill basically everything because the world was evil how come he doesn't do that know when the world is like 2 times as more evil.....
6. If Adam and eve were the first people we are all related then how come the bible says incest is a sin? (I'm not a sick freak this is just something that bugs me.....

im not trying to start a fight i just want to hear you answers to my questions and debate about htem

I'll try... im Christian by the way.

1. God gave people free will to do what they like, even if it means killing other people.

2. existing... well no offence butbhow am i sposed 2 answer that? i will if u define it sum more... :)

3. Because God loves US (yes us the people that deny his existence every day...) Jesus died so that we would be forgiven for our sins. "The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" Jesus died so that we wouldn't have to die and go to Hell ie Hell is the death that is the wages of sinning... if that makes sense 2 u

4. He loves righteous things. Heaven is going to be righteous so how can he put people in Heaven who do not follow his rules. Also, we're not perfect so we will break those rules but if we trust in Jesus Christ then he will cover our sins. It's kind of like two paths. One to heaven and one to hell. How can you follow the path to hell (by sinning) and then expect to get to heaven. Jesus puts us on the right path.

5. Because God is trustworthy and after the first flood he said that he will not send another flood like that. And (in my opinion) they were prob just as evil back then as we are now.

6. MY opinion (which may be wrong) is that incest only became a sin after the world was populated enough... i'd appreciate any 1 elses opinions though

again this is a serious post....
Christan's and Jews (i put you guys together because your basically the same but dont jump on me because of the whole Jesus=son of god questions
----Christans and Jews section.....----
1. Where was god during the Genocide of the Jews...
2.Where has he been for the last oh let say 2000 years.....
3. How could any father who loves there son his son die when he can stop it?
4.He send down 10 rules, 10 rules we have to follow or we go to a place where we will be tortured for all eterninty....but he loves us...
5.If God made a gigantic flood happen to kill basically everything because the world was evil how come he doesn't do that know when the world is like 2 times as more evil.....
6. If Adam and eve were the first people we are all related then how come the bible says incest is a sin? (I'm not a sick freak this is just something that bugs me.....

im not trying to start a fight i just want to hear you answers to my questions and debate about htem

I'll try... im Christian by the way.

1. God gave people free will to do what they like, even if it means killing other people.

2. existing... well no offence butbhow am i sposed 2 answer that? i will if u define it sum more... :)

3. Because God loves US (yes us the people that deny his existence every day...) Jesus died so that we would be forgiven for our sins. "The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" Jesus died so that we wouldn't have to die and go to Hell ie Hell is the death that is the wages of sinning... if that makes sense 2 u

4. He loves righteous things. Heaven is going to be righteous so how can he put people in Heaven who do not follow his rules. Also, we're not perfect so we will break those rules but if we trust in Jesus Christ then he will cover our sins. It's kind of like two paths. One to heaven and one to hell. How can you follow the path to hell (by sinning) and then expect to get to heaven. Jesus puts us on the right path.

5. Because God is trustworthy and after the first flood he said that he will not send another flood like that. And (in my opinion) they were prob just as evil back then as we are now.

6. MY opinion (which may be wrong) is that incest only became a sin after the world was populated enough... i'd appreciate any 1 elses opinions though BTW the word incest does not even exist in the NIV dictionary