NationStates Jolt Archive

Snorklenork

Our countries fought together in Iraq (most recently) and WWII to name a coupla wars... we've got your back, and we know you've got ours.

As for this whining from the UN concerning the donation amounts... i am not surprised. We could have given a billion dollars and they'd have said it wasn't enough.

What I found most troubling is that the guy totally ignored individual contribution... as if the only revenue stream for him is the tax. I shouldn't be surprised, I guess...

The UN is appalled by everything other than themselves and their blind followers and corrupt leaders.

The situation has to be looked at like this:

Sure the U.S. could donate $100 million in the immediate aftermath of the disaster but how quickly will that money be spent and how quickly will the afflicted parties want more? I think it would be better to give a small amount (if $35 million is a small amount) at first, see it spent, and then give a little bit more, see it spent, and then give a little bit more rather than a huge amount at first just to asked for me.

Plus, that $35 million doesn't include the fact that the military is spending millions of dollars on top of that to send an aircraft battle group to the region to serve as field hospitals, command stations, etc. I read somewhere that the aircraft carrier itself can make some amazing amount of freshwater every hour.

Anyway, in the end I'm sure the world will come together and help out. The world will need to be continually reminded of the disaster or else we'll forget, just like the Bam, Iran earthquake this time last year.

If this is how the UN or UN officials react when "stingy Western nations" don't donate enough money I'd like to see their reaction when nothing is donated.


I agree totally.

While this isn't nearly as horrible as a huge wave raping a lot of countries, the United States spent a lot trying to clean up after all the hurricanes came through like a little kid playing gozilla with his play blocks. In Florida, I'm pretty sure they spent a least a billion cleaning up and even now some places are a mess.


A lot of the relief fund went into that. I could be wrong but I'm sure if all that money hadn't been spent earlier on trying to keep Florida intact we would be able to donate more without pulling the teeth out of our congressmen.

I think that Americans should drive down to the UN in New York and tar and feather the little squealer.

He's obviously not up on current events. I guess that he would notice the difference if the US suddenly stopped giving money away.

The total population of the EU is almost twice as large as the US, and they claim to be more affluent and prosperous than the US. Fine. Then when they've given twice as much money worldwide as the US, they can start talking about who gave more money.

As it is, they have a long way to go just to catch up. And I bet they won't catch up, and they'll still say the US is "stingy".

I think that Americans should drive down to the UN in New York and tar and feather the little squealer.

He's obviously not up on current events. I guess that he would notice the difference if the US suddenly stopped giving money away.

The total population of the EU is almost twice as large as the US, and they claim to be more affluent and prosperous than the US. Fine. Then when they've given twice as much money worldwide as the US, they can start talking about who gave more money.

As it is, they have a long way to go just to catch up. And I bet they won't catch up, and they'll still say the US is "stingy".
Um we still fall behind on the per capita donations also ... so adjusted for population

I think that Americans should drive down to the UN in New York and tar and feather the little squealer.

He's obviously not up on current events. I guess that he would notice the difference if the US suddenly stopped giving money away.

The total population of the EU is almost twice as large as the US, and they claim to be more affluent and prosperous than the US. Fine. Then when they've given twice as much money worldwide as the US, they can start talking about who gave more money.

As it is, they have a long way to go just to catch up. And I bet they won't catch up, and they'll still say the US is "stingy".
First of all, EU is not equal to the UN. When someone working at the UN says something to BOTH the US and EU about not giving enough money, I don't see why you go off on attacking the EU.

Also, as stated earlier, if you only give as much as other because they don't give more, you've missed the point. You give as much as you can and don't look at others to see if you gave more. That kind of comparison is stupid.

The United States gives more aid then any other nation on Earth for relief of an event that did not even have to do with us.......and we are not giving enough? (sigh)

First of all, EU is not equal to the UN. When someone working at the UN says something to BOTH the US and EU about not giving enough money, I don't see why you go off on attacking the EU.

Also, as stated earlier, if you only give as much as other because they don't give more, you've missed the point. You give as much as you can and don't look at others to see if you gave more. That kind of comparison is stupid.

Worldwide, the US gave, not counting private charitable donations, 40 percent of the world's international aid.

No nation, or group of nations, comes close. I attacked the EU because the UN hack who made the comment said that Norway and the EU are far more generous, when in fact they most certainly are not. He was the one making the comparison, so he, and whatever country he represents, gets to eat his words.

[Quote:]
The United States is offering $35 million, Japan $30 million and the United Kingdom $28 million. Australia and Germany have pledged $27 million, France $20.4 million and Saudi Arabia $10 million.

I love that list!

Some guys (don't mean you) deliberatly forget to count the 30million of the EU towards this seperate donations of member states. So in total those EU nations donnation is far more huge then the US one.

Ok and Britain has 28 of that million! Where is the other 2 million coming from? Oh and before you say anything, Britain is in the EU or last I heard they were! If the EU is pledging 30 million then we are still 5 million on them since 35 is 5 million more than 30!

BTW I find the donations of the EU, US aso ridiculous when we see that the inouguration of Bush will be a 40 million party. We should give billions, not millions.

Well it is an inaugeration that was being planned BEFORE this. I don't expect the plans to change though and they shouldn't change!

BTW I hope the US citizens will join the EU, Japan and Austraila while having a 3 minutes sillence at monday january 3 in memory of the victims. Those people in the region did it even for a few deaths at theTwinTowers,remember.

I know I will now that I know about it! what time is that supposed to take place?

Or is a US life more worth then a Asian one

nope!

First of all, EU is not equal to the UN. When someone working at the UN says something to BOTH the US and EU about not giving enough money, I don't see why you go off on attacking the EU.

Also, as stated earlier, if you only give as much as other because they don't give more, you've missed the point. You give as much as you can and don't look at others to see if you gave more. That kind of comparison is stupid.

oh no it is not. Look at the UN for example, the United States pays more than a fifth of the money for it. That is based on our GDP compared to that of other member nations.Using your logic the USA would pay for the entire thing. we could , after all. But that would not be fair. Paying an amount based on what others give is. As far as relief......the USA has trillions of dollars of debt and we are still the biggest giver! And some say it is not enough!Good grief.

Worldwide, the US gave, not counting private charitable donations, 40 percent of the world's international aid.

No nation, or group of nations, comes close. I attacked the EU because the UN hack who made the comment said that Norway and the EU are far more generous, when in fact they most certainly are not. He was the one making the comparison, so he, and whatever country he represents, gets to eat his words.

And I'm saying who cares? Do you really want to stop giving because little Johnny over there is giving less?

And the "UN hack" said the WHOLE western world (EU, Canada, US, etc.) could stand to give more. I don't recall reading anywhere where he conpared what the US is giving to what the EU is giving. If you would show me a link, please?

oh no it is not. Look at the UN for example, the United States pays more than a fifth of the money for it. That is based on our GDP compared to that of other member nations.Using your logic the USA would pay for the entire thing. we could , after all. But that would not be fair. Paying an amount based on what others give is. As far as relief......the USA has trillions of dollars of debt and we are still the biggest giver! And some say it is not enough!Good grief.
Paying for the UN is a faulty example, but I get your point.
However, if we compare the donation per capita, the US is not giving as much as some others. However, we are talking governmental help, not overall help (counting private donations and so on).

He said the entire western world? Western world is an interesting concept....but anyway, the Western Hemisphere includes all of Europe does it not?

Paying for the UN is a faulty example, but I get your point.
However, if we compare the donation per capita, the US is not giving as much as some others. However, we are talking governmental help, not overall help (counting private donations and so on).

What exactly do you mean by per capita? Population or GDP? Just wondering.

He said the entire western world? Western world is an interesting concept....but anyway, the Western Hemisphere includes all of Europe does it not?

Not according to my last Geography Class!

He said the entire western world? Western world is an interesting concept....but anyway, the Western Hemisphere includes all of Europe does it not?
Yes, precicely. He said that France is stingy, if you want to look at it that way...

What exactly do you mean by per capita? Population or GDP? Just wondering.
Sorry, I was parroting some post from this very thread posted earlier...

I'll have to get back to you in a while if you want numbers as I'm going to lunch...

NO, I must say I am very sorry, I was leading you all on.... I mistyped you see , he was not speaking of Europe! Europe is not in that hemisphere! North and South America are. So was he saying that Peru is not giving enough? Or mexico? Or canada? That is silly, no other naiton in the west has a quarter of the money of the USA. it was fairly easy to see who he was talking about. One nation. The United States. He should be ashamed.

I am leaving as well. Going to go listen to Rush Limbaugh. Good radio show. YOu should give it a try. bye now.

I am leaving as well. Going to go listen to Rush Limbaugh. Good radio show. YOu should give it a try. bye now.

Oh yea Rush followed by Hannity on our radio dail here :) Makes 2 of us!

This whole thread is BS and does nothing but offer petty "I did more than he did-na na na boo boo."

Why doesnt someone talk about the poor victims who are thankful to have a .99 cent bottle of water?

:mad: :(

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_com_to_for_aid&int=-1

Interesting.

Now bash the French :)

Okay...the Us pays for the security of Europe... its mostly on our military bill. Thus, they get to spend a greater percentage on other things.

Latest reports from Reuters say that Canada's contributing $33 million.
Good ol' Canada. GDP barely 9% of the US, but it still finds almost as much to contribute.
Very impressive.

Do you people who are defending the US by saying it's giving more than any other one nation realise that the extra $20 million on top of the intial $15 million is an 'emergency line of credit' - in other words the US is expecting it to be paid back sometime.
So they're not really 'giving' $35 mill, are they? It's $15 mill, and a loan of $20 mill.

<cough> stingy <cough>

Even after one of the biggest ever disasters the world has ever seen, where 116,000 people have died, millions of families affected by the tragedy, still people here are simply, and with great anger, defending their country. If I could think or anyone could give me one good solid reason why the UN saying countries that don't give much money to these people who may die without their help and I'll eat my words. But it seems that if these petty squables overshadow this disaster then not only will it stop you thinking about the real issue at hand but it shows how the UN representative was fully correct in his accusation; people are more interested in building their own every day lives on the lives than others than stopping to think and act on the horrible effect that the tsunami has had on so many people.

Does it really matter that you believe he said the USA has given little? They have given little compared to many other countries such as Canada - compare the size of the economies and Canada has given oer 10 times as much per capita - Canada has given nearly as much money, only $2 million less, than the USA, with a GDP of $934 billion compared to America's GDP of $10.45 trillion dollars. But stacking up the tallies of different nations doesn't matter, each individual's contribution is what matters. If someone accuses you of being stingy when you are being stingy, the answer is not to deny it and get on a high horse to defend your pride from a perceived slight.
The answer is to look at the situation, see that more people will die without your money and give as much as you can afford.

Please tell me if there is anything wrong with what I've said

Ok and Britain has 28 of that million! Where is the other 2 million coming from? Oh and before you say anything, Britain is in the EU or last I heard they were! If the EU is pledging 30 million then we are still 5 million on them since 35 is 5 million more than 30!
I think the EU pledge is seperate from individual countries, cause if Britain is pledging $28mill and France $20.4mill, that's more than the EU contribution there.
Here's the latest list:
UK $96m
EU $44m
US: $35m
Canada: $33m
Japan: $30m
Australia: $27m
France: $20.4m
Denmark: $15.6m
Saudi Arabia: $10m
Norway: $6.6m
Taiwan: $5.1m
Finland: $3.4m
Kuwait: $2.1m
Netherlands: $2.6m
UAE: $2m
Ireland $1.3m
Singapore: $1.2m
Source: Reuters, United Nations

Whoah...well,bugger me! But isn't the UK generous? $96 mill! Well done!
Also good on the Aussies, considering the size of their economy, population and all.
(Now at least we don't have to hear "USA is giving more than anyone else, so there")

BTW death toll now stands at over 120 000 and they still haven't got to some places - at least 10 000 feared dead in the Andaman islands for example. It's probably going to hit 200 000.
That's a lot.

Even after one of the biggest ever disasters the world has ever seen, where 116,000 people have died, millions of families affected by the tragedy, still people here are simply, and with great anger, defending their country. If I could think or anyone could give me one good solid reason why the UN saying countries that don't give much money to these people who may die without their help and I'll eat my words. But it seems that if these petty squables overshadow this disaster then not only will it stop you thinking about the real issue at hand but it shows how the UN representative was fully correct in his accusation; people are more interested in building their own every day lives on the lives than others than stopping to think and act on the horrible effect that the tsunami has had on so many people.

Does it really matter that you believe he said the USA has given little? They have given little compared to many other countries such as Canada - compare the size of the economies and Canada has given oer 10 times as much per capita - Canada has given nearly as much money, only $2 million less, than the USA, with a GDP of $934 billion compared to America's GDP of $10.45 trillion dollars. But stacking up the tallies of different nations doesn't matter, each individual's contribution is what matters. If someone accuses you of being stingy when you are being stingy, the answer is not to deny it and get on a high horse to defend your pride from a perceived slight.
The answer is to look at the situation, see that more people will die without your money and give as much as you can afford.

Please tell me if there is anything wrong with what I've said


NOPE- not a thing wrong with it. Its crappy to argue about who gave the most when there are 9 month old babies laying in a ditch over there waiting to be found. Hopefully before they die.

NOPE- not a thing wrong with it. Its crappy to argue about who gave the most when there are 9 month old babies laying in a ditch over there waiting to be found. Hopefully before they die.
Yeah right now what we need to worry about is getting people … food … medicine … and water over there fast rather then worrying about re-building money.

I'd be interested in seeing what the entire countries give instead of just governments. Millions are flowing out of the U.S. by private donors or businesses raising money also. Even crappy bands like Linkin Park are giving money. The idea that governments should be putting forth all the money is one of the fundamental differences between America and other parts of the world. We expect individuals to step up instead of relying on the government

I'd be interested in seeing what the entire countries give instead of just governments. Millions are flowing out of the U.S. by private donors or businesses raising money also. Even crappy bands like Linkin Park are giving money. The idea that governments should be putting forth all the money is one of the fundamental differences between America and other parts of the world. We expect individuals to step up instead of relying on the government
True individual freedom ... I am curious though how much IS being donated ... just curious

True individual freedom ... I am curious though how much IS being donated ... just curious

Early this morning, amazon.com in the US was reporting over 3 million in one night.

Early this morning, amazon.com in the US was reporting over 3 million in one night.
Cool ... any help we can give...

Early this morning, amazon.com in the US was reporting over 3 million in one night.
Bill Gates has given $3 mill from his charity.

Bill Gates has given $3 mill from his charity.
Lol and he gave his charity (which is a charitable contribution just not to this peticular situation) 26.5 billion dollars!

I am just amazed by how much money that is lol

I think the EU pledge is seperate from individual countries, cause if Britain is pledging $28mill and France $20.4mill, that's more than the EU contribution there.
Here's the latest list:
UK $96m
EU $44m
US: $35m
Canada: $33m
Japan: $30m
Australia: $27m
France: $20.4m
Denmark: $15.6m
Saudi Arabia: $10m
Norway: $6.6m
Taiwan: $5.1m
Finland: $3.4m
Kuwait: $2.1m
Netherlands: $2.6m
UAE: $2m
Ireland $1.3m
Singapore: $1.2m
Source: Reuters, United Nations

Whoah...well,bugger me! But isn't the UK generous? $96 mill! Well done!
Also good on the Aussies, considering the size of their economy, population and all.
(Now at least we don't have to hear "USA is giving more than anyone else, so there")

BTW death toll now stands at over 120 000 and they still haven't got to some places - at least 10 000 feared dead in the Andaman islands for example. It's probably going to hit 200 000.
That's a lot.

I don't see spain up there. I'd like to mention that they are voting on a 68 millions donation (or credit, I don't remember). Even if it isn't passed yet, chances are they'll be generous.

actually, the us is the lead donater and contributer to this disaster, which kind of surprises me, considering there all "them asian folk" as i wouldve thought most wouldve ignored.


Wrong, the EU is like allways. Watch CCN and the inteview with Louis Michel, EU commissionar for cooperation and development, helps a lot. Or read above.

Funny thing is the United States will contribute more than all the other nations combined and people will still piss and moan about it not being enough. Fuck that, go ask the UN for money.
Secretary Powell already said that US aid to the disater relief would be well over a billion in the end, so you can all stop pissing and moaning.

It seems that the US is more into fighting the war in Iraq which has cost them $ 500 billion than giving more donation to the people who were hit by the tsunami. This is very sad as they say that they are the richest country in the world. Spain has given $ 88 million to the four countries hit by the Tsunami. And over that he thinks that the Aid agencies were ill-informed. That is just horses***t.

I am from Australia as i know at least one other of the people that have posted is. I know because i read his or her post. i read the first page get the drift of it and bam i see something the guy that started this is saying america isnt beeing stingy. SAYING THEY ARENT BEING STINGY! they give what $5 mill thats about all that i hear tehm giving. Us Aussies man we have given more money, way over 30 mill i think and i can tell you Australia is not the richest country in the world and i can most definatly say it is not the most powerful country and guess what THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS THE MOST POWERFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! I used to think of our prime minister as a George dubbya bush arse kisser but now i see he has got some thing right.

go aussie go :D

oh and i express my deepest sorrows for those people who experianced died and expessilly the people who lost a loved one from the Tsunami disasters.

Also on a side noe, this is from CNN who hasnt been the most pro-Bush news company.
How is CNN anti-Bush? Ted Turner has no agenda, unlike Rupert Murdoch. And don't point to a couple of random times when they were critical of Bush, because that's basically claiming that a library has a murder mystery bias after only looking in the murder mystery section.

Secretary Powell already said that US aid to the disater relief would be well over a billion in the end, so you can all stop pissing and moaning.
Colin Powell also told the UN about little containers of anthrax that Saddam was sending throughout the world.

Why the hell is the US responsible for the ill planning of the affected nations anyways? Why is it that WE have to help them? We shouldnt have to pay for this disaster. And if we do, the UN and the rest of the international community should appreciate that they are even getting anything.

And, though it may sound cruel, this tsunami is just a huge means of population control. After this, we shouldnt have to send so much international support year after year. With 120,000 less mouths to feed, these governments should recover much quicker. Especially with the disgustingly high amount of money being poured into their coffers. And think about this. What state are they going to be in 30 yrs from now? The same. A developing, poor, weak third world nation. Leave us out of this. Be happy we are even giving a cent.

And as for our alleged warmongering... let us have our oil. If you want a war, bring it on. lol I'm sure that all the armies of Europe and Asia couldnt willfully make it to the center of our great country!

Secretary Powell already said that US aid to the disater relief would be well over a billion in the end, so you can all stop pissing and moaning.

Good new york times piece about US's "aid"

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/30/opinion/30thu2.html?incamp=article_popular_1

...Making things worse, we often pledge more money than we actually deliver. Victims of the earthquake in Bam, Iran, a year ago are still living in tents because aid, including ours, has not materialized in the amounts pledged. And back in 2002, Mr. Bush announced his Millennium Challenge account to give African countries development assistance of up to $5 billion a year, but the account has yet to disburse a single dollar.

Also interesting thing from an email:

Many have commented on the paltry, really disgraceful U.S. aid offer. The U.S. spends approximately $270 million each day for the occupation of Iraq.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/28/powell.aid/

UNITED NATIONS (CNN) -- The United Nations' emergency relief coordinator said Tuesday that the international response to the tsunami catastrophe in southern Asia has been "very generous" despite earlier comments in which he called some nations "stingy."

"The international assistance that has come and been pledged from the United States, from Europe and from countries in the region has also been very generous," Jan Egeland said in brief remarks at the world body's headquarters.

Why the hell is the US responsible for the ill planning of the affected nations anyways? Why is it that WE have to help them? We shouldnt have to pay for this disaster. And if we do, the UN and the rest of the international community should appreciate that they are even getting anything.

And, though it may sound cruel, this tsunami is just a huge means of population control. After this, we shouldnt have to send so much international support year after year. With 120,000 less mouths to feed, these governments should recover much quicker. Especially with the disgustingly high amount of money being poured into their coffers. And think about this. What state are they going to be in 30 yrs from now? The same. A developing, poor, weak third world nation. Leave us out of this. Be happy we are even giving a cent.

And as for our alleged warmongering... let us have our oil. If you want a war, bring it on. lol I'm sure that all the armies of Europe and Asia couldnt willfully make it to the center of our great country!

How so stupid people can be..........

Anyway, Holland (which is very small) will give about 30 million euros and the Dutch TV will held a broadcast in which people can donate for the victims. So its going to be a lot more.

Just for reference:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=7213090
BEIJING (Reuters) - Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao on Friday offered 500 million yuan ($60.42 million) in aid for tsunami-ravaged countries on top of $2.6 million already pledged.

At a little over $63 million, Beijing is now the third biggest monetary donor behind Britain and Sweden. The United States has made an initial pledge of $35 million.


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11818747%255E1702,00.html

A RAPID surge in donations worldwide brought to half a billion dollars today the funds raised or pledged for emergency relief in Asian countries swept by tidal waves that killed at least 118,000 people.

The government of Britain led the field with a pledge of $US96 million ($123.3 million), followed by those of Sweden, the Netherlands and France which offered tens of millions of dollars more than they had previously amid charges that wealthy countries were "stingy".
[...]
The American Red Cross said today it has received $US18 million ($23.1 million) and CARE USA more than $US3.5 million ($4.5 million) from the public, and the donations are expected soon to match the $US35 million ($45 million) pledged by the US government.

British charities under the umbrella of the Disasters Emergency Committee (DEC) said their appeals had netted STG20 million ($49.5 million) in aid in 48 hours.
[...]
Two Canadian provinces set aside aid worth $US10.8 million ($13.9 million) for Asian tsunami victims, bringing Canada's total government aid package to $44 million ($47 million).

In Italy, a media campaign reportedly netted more than 11 million euro ($19.3 million) from mobile phone users while the Italian foreign ministry has set aside three million euro ($5.3 million) for immediate relief.

A similar campaign in the Netherlands, launched by aid groups including UNICEF, the Red Cross and Medecins Sans Frontieres, had already brought in 9.3 million euro ($16.3 million) by today.
[...]
The French government has now pledged a total of at $US56 million ($71.9 million), including its portion of a 20 million euro ($35 million) European Union aid program.

Other leading government contributors were Japan at $US40 million ($51.4 million), the Netherlands at $US36 million ($46.2 million), Canada at $US32.8 million ($42.1 million), Germany at $US27 million ($34.67 million), Australia at $A35 million, Portugal at $US11 million ($14.1 million), Saudi Arabia at $US10 million ($12.8 million), and Arab Gulf neighbour of Qatar at $US10 million ($12.8 million).

20 pages... I read the first two and I am annoyed. Everyone can argue back and forth for as long as they want cause neither side is totaly right. Does GNP matter? I say yes cause if a country makes more money, it has more money (duh!). I also think raw dollars matter, cause the more money a person gives, the more it helps (duh again!). If you get even further in, it matters differently from different perspectives. From the perspective of those that need the help, even if they admire the small country who gives a big chunk of their income, they dont need to hear that they got .2% of a countries income, they need to hear you got $xxxxx.xx dollars (or whatever) to help. All this could be resolved if everyone would just listen to another person's point of view (and I mean seriously pay attention, not just read the words so you can feel like you are being fair). But no, that can't happen cause then people would need to think about something they don't agree with... I do not even plan to bother looking at this topic after this, so anyone with anything to say to me, send me a message or whatever.

20 pages... I read the first two and I am annoyed. Everyone can argue back and forth for as long as they want cause neither side is totaly right. Does GNP matter? I say yes cause if a country makes more money, it has more money (duh!). I also think raw dollars matter, cause the more money a person gives, the more it helps (duh again!). If you get even further in, it matters differently from different perspectives. From the perspective of those that need the help, even if they admire the small country who gives a big chunk of their income, they dont need to hear that they got .2% of a countries income, they need to hear you got $xxxxx.xx dollars (or whatever) to help. All this could be resolved if everyone would just listen to another person's point of view (and I mean seriously pay attention, not just read the words so you can feel like you are being fair). But no, that can't happen cause then people would need to think about something they don't agree with... I do not even plan to bother looking at this topic after this, so anyone with anything to say to me, send me a message or whatever.Uhhh, a country makes more money it probably has more Expenses as well. and this whole thing was started by an insensitive remark by a UN representative. and since you're not looking at this thread anymore... :p

What I've read in the newspapers is that Sweden donated aprox. 40 million dollars, while the US has sofar given away 35 million. Isn't that weird?

I don't really care what "Amerka" donates to the disaster relief fund. America can't be expected to fund the globe, just as we wish it wouldn't attempt to police the globe. If you don't want them to do one, don't expect them to do the other.

The important thing is that the world is pulling together to help the injured, the sick, and the bereaved. That's what matters here.

Here's an interesting point I read yesterday though: Great Britain's government have pledged £15 million to the relief effort. Great Britain's public have already raised £21 million towards the relief effort via charitable donations. Says something about Mr Blair, that does.

Now, where's my sniper rifle?

It sure as hell wasnt derected at the Europeans. Who else is he talking about in the Western Hemisphere, Costa Rica. If you used your common sense then maybe you could figure it out.

Ahem, we're up here. *tilts your head up on the map*

Yeah, there's another rich country in the Americas called Canada, who've donated $32 800 000 so far.

With ten times the population America could afford more; should they? That's not for me to answer, maybe American charities will be more helpful.

£50 (about $65) will rebuild one house for a family to live in, and give that family running water.
Any donation is worth something. People must understand that if a country gives too much, it can affect their economy overall. Great Britain has been able to afford to donate more than the U.S because the British economy is more stable and the pound is worth more than the U.S dollar.
Any donation is worth a lot. People should stop criticizing others over their donations and just help the poor people who have been affected by this horrible disaster.

Uhhh, a country makes more money it probably has more Expenses as well. and this whole thing was started by an insensitive remark by a UN representative. and since you're not looking at this thread anymore... :p

Actually this is a good point. One thing that hasn't been considered is that with the huge budget deficit the US has they really can't afford to help. Plus they have that whole war in Iraq thing going on which is costing hundreds of billions of dollars. Maybe the rest of the world should help out by donating money to the US, since they're technically bankrupt...

People should stop criticizing others over their donations and just help the poor people who have been affected by this horrible disaster.

Spot on. USA is giving alot, they should be thanked for their donations rather than critizised. Give a finger, and they want the hand, etc

Once again I feel obliged to inject a big fat dose of realism into this thread. Nobody criticised the US. Read the article properly and you'll see that ONE UN official said that wealthy countries should be less stingy.

Plus, as Goed Twee put it in another thread, we're all just having a dick waving contest while people are dieing in Asia. Who cares which country donated which amount? How many of us have donated money?

Once again I feel obliged to inject a big fat dose of realism into this thread. Nobody criticised the US. Read the article properly and you'll see that ONE UN official said that wealthy countries should be less stingy.

Plus, as Goed Twee put it in another thread, we're all just having a dick waving contest while people are dieing in Asia. Who cares which country donated which amount? How many of us have donated money?

The article didn't point out the US, many people on the message board have. They easily block out the millions being given by US individuals and companies though, because they need more halftruths to bitch about because typing "Bush is evil" over and over gets boring after a while.

The article didn't point out the US, many people on the message board have. They easily block out the millions being given by US individuals and companies though, because they need more halftruths to bitch about because typing "Bush is evil" over and over gets boring after a while.

But the fact is that it was all started by that article, which suggested that the official was talking about America. If that hadn't been posted, none of this conversation would have occurred. People would probably have stuck to threads about how awful the disaster was.

Don't mention Skapadroe's thread about how George Bush caused the earthquake. ;)

Once again I feel obliged to inject a big fat dose of realism into this thread. Nobody criticised the US. Read the article properly and you'll see that ONE UN official said that wealthy countries should be less stingy.

Plus, as Goed Twee put it in another thread, we're all just having a dick waving contest while people are dieing in Asia. Who cares which country donated which amount? How many of us have donated money?actually he said Wealthy WESTERN Countries. now again, make a list of Wealthy WESTERN Countries and USA would be in the Top 3. Now if that Idiot, just said, with the magnatude of this desaster, we hope that all nations can give as much as they can afford to give, then there wouldn't be this arugument. Then add to the title of this tread as well as only two countries were named and the fact that this subject has come up before... twice infact. and you can see how it can be a seen as an disguised barb to the US.

actually he said Wealthy WESTERN Countries. now again, make a list of Wealthy WESTERN Countries and USA would be in the Top 3. Now if that Idiot, just said, with the magnatude of this desaster, we hope that all nations can give as much as they can afford to give, then there wouldn't be this arugument. Then add to the title of this tread as well as only two countries were named and the fact that this subject has come up before... twice infact. and you can see how it can be a seen as an disguised barb to the US.

Just because the US ranks among the wealthiest Western countries, it doesn't mean that it was a disguised barb directed at the US. Christ, the UK ranks pretty high and we don't think that. Besides, most Western countries are pretty wealthy.

It was an unofficial, spur of the moment statement, which was the opinion of one official. Many people have taken this statement as the entire UN giving the US the finger.

Once again I feel obliged to inject a big fat dose of realism into this thread. Nobody criticised the US. Read the article properly and you'll see that ONE UN official said that wealthy countries should be less stingy.

Plus, as Goed Twee put it in another thread, we're all just having a dick waving contest while people are dieing in Asia. Who cares which country donated which amount? How many of us have donated money?


While it may be a bit of a "dick-waving" party, if it also shames the governments into doing the right thing then it serves a purpose. I mean really, don't you think that it is fair to criticize the government of the US for promising less in aid for what may well be the largest natural disaster in living memory than they are spending on the upcoming inauguration festivities? Hell, even just looking at it self-servingly, there is a growing perception in the Muslim world that the US is embroiled in a religious war against them. When the aid package offered to such a disaster is the equivalent of about three days spending on what is perceived as killing Muslims in Iraq - you are not helping improve your image.


From a personal standpoint, as long as they take my money in taxes, and as long as we here in Canada are running a surplus, I feel obliged to raise a stink to see that some of that money goes towards worthy causes instead of the usual bureaucratic waste.

Disaster aid rarely equates to moneys spent for economic self-interest, which is why most governments have dificulty getting behind it as this is their focus. But if the voters shame them into it - they will get behind it.

I hear the US is rather interested in rebuilding contracts financed by whoever shows some financial altruism these days. They even promised to invest $35m tax money into the project themselves.

After all they also promised $1b to rebuild Bam. A year later already $16m have been allocated. At this rate it will only take 62.5 years before the whole sum is spent. On the other hand at the same tempo the disaster area can count on $560k for the coming year. Now ain't that beautiful?

The comment was fair. The US was not individually attacked.

Brits (and others? not sure if this is much use for those outside the UK) may be interested to visit the following sites:

A list of aid agencies involved (from the BBC):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4131881.stm

The Disasters Emergency Committee (DEC), an umbrella organisation of aid agencies:

http://www.dec.org.uk/

Please be generous.

While it may be a bit of a "dick-waving" party, if it also shames the governments into doing the right thing then it serves a purpose.



George Bush: Hey, it says on the NationStates forum that we should pay more towards aid!

Dick Cheney: I'm not sure it's a good idea to pay too much, Mr President.

George Bush: But this guy says we should! And he's an Uber Spamgirl!

Dick Cheney: But Chicken Pi says it's all a dick waving contest anyway.

George Bush: Oh, never mind, then. Cancel all of the aid money.


(I don't mean to criticise anyone here or the act of giving or failing to give aid. I'm just pointing out how unlikely it is that we'll affect national policy by having a go at each other)

Chicken Pi, you can see this forum as one of many where the dick waving competition is going on. Pretty soon, some blog will talk about it. Then the media will pick up the ball and use it to shame the government.

Yes, we can manipulate public opinion from here.

Okay...the Us pays for the security of Europe... its mostly on our military bill. Thus, they get to spend a greater percentage on other things.
are you talking about NATO?

I've been asking who actually donated anything. ALl these people here, bitching about what contry donated the most...and yet nobody wants to come out and say that THEY donated anything.
I have donated....Yet...that does not make me more qualified to speak...

Chicken Pi, you can see this forum as one of many where the dick waving competition is going on. Pretty soon, some blog will talk about it. Then the media will pick up the ball and use it to shame the government.

Yes, we can manipulate public opinion from here.

I guess you've got a good point there, although I think they cut out the middleman (after all, this was started by that article on CNN). I hope that the government is somehow persuaded to pay more but I still hope we don't get a major dick waving contest in the media.

France, he was talking about France and Germany and he had to talking about Scotland, try to squeeze a penny out of a Scot, nearly impossible...any more of the Western Hemisphere you want me to name?
Nahh. Not necessary, especially since that probably exhausts your store of information. :D

How many of us have donated money?
Probably quite a few, but some of us believe that it's better to keep donations to charity a private matter.

The US is now upping its contribution from 35 mill to 350 million!

The US is now upping its contribution from 35 mill to 350 million!
that looks more like it...

The US is now upping its contribution from 35 mill to 350 million!
Congrats. More is still needed but that's a start.

Looks like international pressure is squeezing the money out. Australia's upping it's contribution to $500 AU as well.

Why does it always end up becoming a "who gave the largest monetary amount" issue? Doesn't this kind of thing cheapen the issue and devalue our caring about what's actually happening to these people? Or do that many of us care for appearances and external opinion more than our desire to help people who have been completely devastated by this disaster?

It makes me sad to see so many take this issue so lightly that they can argue about who gave what and whether or not the natural disaster was some form of divine retribution on the part of some heiniously vindictive diety. Can you not see the gravity of the matter and show some simple respect and caring? It's not something we should just dismiss or turn into a global pissing contest simply because it occurred someplace far away. A metric shit-load of people DIED a horrible death and many more are left homeless, hungry and ruined. Doesn't that mean anything to you?

Looks like international pressure is squeezing the money out. Australia's upping it's contribution to $500 AU as well.*ads 3 zeroes*
:)

If it wasn't for all the people suffering, the US should tell everyone to $%*@-off and keep all the money to cut taxes in the US becuase of this report alone. Luckily for everyone all over the world the US is the most altruistic country to ever exist and will probably donate even more money becuase of this. They already spend trillions of dollars maintaining an army to protect most of the world, and now they will end up spending another billion to help these people and all they can do is bitch and moan. Some people a real peices of work, that is for sure.


The public of Great Britain has donated more money than any other country. At a rate of £1,000,000 an hour. This is not government money, but people giving from their own pockets. So I would argue that the US is the most altruistic country ever to exist, its just the most insular country with the most unbalanced world view, a shame as Americans are informed so little about the world in a way that gives them the true picture. It is not the fault of the American people. But please don't imagine that your army is protecting the world...good grief...it is killing many innocent people in its attempt to 'help' rid us all of terrorism (I am sure the oil reserves have no part to play)

As a last point..I doubt if any of the millions of people affected by this most terrible of disasters have given a single thought to bitching or moaning about America, I am sure living with the deaths of most of your family, neighbours and friends, the lack of food, water and shelter, the overwhelming threat of disease and the horror of wading through foul smelling water contaminated by corpses blocks out all else.

Why does it always end up becoming a "who gave the largest monetary amount" issue? You got it all wrong....It is not about the largest amount...Its about the GNP%....thats the shit...

You got it all wrong....It is not about the largest amount...Its about the GNP%....thats the shit...

That still remains in the realm of "pissing contest". I suggest that we pull our metaphorical dicks off the table and stop using the loss and suffering of others to inflate our respective national pride. It does no one any credit to have a higher GNP percentage given if people insist on turning it into an excuse to brag rather than an opportunity to roll up the metaphorical sleeves and get down to the serious business of helping these people recover with some form of dignity.

dp

Let me put it this way:

If I was a Indonesian RedCross Fundraiser, or a thai rescue worker....I would not mind the Public Generosity Contest...Not at all.

the victims need the help...any way they can get it.

the more money=the less suffering.

I think you are complaining only Because your President(whoever) is a cheapo and he gives a low GNP%

You are just... sad. Your lack of respect for people is bordering on being insulting. You are exactly what I was talking about. And there's not a damned thing I can say or do to transform you into a worthwhile human being. Enjoy your ignorance.

Yep. True then we went on the warpath and what? Nothing but scorn and you can't do that and you have to understand where terrorists are coming from BS!!

Hmm... so what you're saying is that any contributions given to the US in the wake of any tragedies mean nothing if we don't then buy into the US' response afterwards?

Fair enough.

You do realise that the term "warpath" makes the US sound like barbarians? I never thought I'd say it, but the US and UK governments actually did a pretty good job on spinning that one, didn't they?

That still remains in the realm of "pissing contest". I suggest that we pull our metaphorical dicks off the table and stop using the loss and suffering of others to inflate our respective national pride. It does no one any credit to have a higher GNP percentage given if people insist on turning it into an excuse to brag rather than an opportunity to roll up the metaphorical sleeves and get down to the serious business of helping these people recover with some form of dignity.Let me put it this way:

If I was a Indonesian nurse, or a thai rescue worker....I would not mind the Public Generosity Contest...Not at all.

the victims need the help...any way they can get it.

more donations = more help.

I think you keep complaining only Because your President is a cheapo and he gives a low GNP%

The anti-American bullshit is reaching an all-time high around here. I have seen Bush blamed for the earthquake, the deaths, and now, for not spending our entire GNP on relief for people in other nations. Fuck that, go ask the UN!

Wow... Where did you see all that...?

I've just dredged through all of the posts, trying to find nuggets of actual information, and I didn't see anyone at any point blame Bush for the earthquake, the deaths, or for not spending the "entire" GNP on relief... In fact, the only person I've ever seen credit Bush with such godlike potential is Bush himself.

I'd say this disaster was one of the few things in the last few years that people HAVEN'T tried to pin on him.

A lot of americans have kind of had this problem for a while now... you get yourselves in such a state because of whatever feelings of persecution or entitlement you feel that even the most reasonable of you end up being really aggressive assholes.

And the rest of the world doesn't help, with it's constant niggling and yadda yadda...

Sheesh. And if one more person compares this disaster to any disaster or tragedy that's happened in the last fifty years, I swear, I am taking all your toys away, and calling your mums. I'd like to think that the idea of over 70,000 dead in the space of a few days has just short-circuited your brains or something, and that's why you're all bitching, because otherwise the enormity of it will make you break down or some shit.

Otherwise, you're ALL being argumentative, obnoxious idiots for no reason. Oh, damn, and now you've made me do it too.

Why don't you all stop arguing about it and maybe hel some people?


http://www.dec.org.uk/

Go on you know it makes sense really....

Love you all

I've just dredged through all of the posts, trying to find nuggets of actual information, and I didn't see anyone at any point blame Bush for the earthquake, the deaths, or for not spending the "entire" GNP on relief... In fact, the only person I've ever seen credit Bush with such godlike potential is Bush himself.

It occurs to me on re-reading that you were talking about posts on other forums, and as such, I spoke in error.

Having said that, if you people didn't make me so crazy, I would have responded more carefully.

So sorry. But grrr.

This tissue thin apology was brought to you by the letters B and S, the number 42, and the sound "graaar"

Wow... Where did you see all that...?

I've just dredged through all of the posts...not in this thread...

but once in a while... a neo-con puppet shows up..(posing as Anti-Bush)

...posting things like Bush is an son of a Martian...with Earthquake raising powers
:D :D :D

1. The criticism was NOT levelled at the US, but at Mr. Bush, as he (even a lot of Americans - at least the ones I know - say that) failed to realize what happened and it took him ages to react while other nations already reacted. Bad timing, that´s all, can´t really blame him for that.
2. Initially he promised 3 Millions, which is a bad joke - you got to admit it. How many money did he mobilize to aid Florida after Ivan the Terrible? 13.6 BILLION, right?
3. Anyway, he racked up 350 Million now + goods, personell and supplies
4. Noone doubts the INDIVIDUAL generosity of the average American. We all know they got big hearts and like to lend a hand, that´s why we like them.

1. The criticism was NOT levelled at the US, but at Mr. Bush, as he (even a lot of Americans - at least the ones I know - say that) failed to realize what happened and it took him ages to react while other nations already reacted. Bad timing, that´s all, can´t really blame him for that.
2. Initially he promised 3 Millions, which is a bad joke - you got to admit it. How many money did he mobilize to aid Florida after Ivan the Terrible? 13.6 BILLION, right?
3. Anyway, he racked up 350 Million now + goods, personell and supplies
4. Noone doubts the INDIVIDUAL generosity of the average American. We all know they got big hearts and like to lend a hand, that´s why we like them.I agree...

Bush Gives Americans a bad name.

most Americans are smarter than Bush...and Most Americans are better persons than Bush.

It was US Secretary of State Colin Powell who managed to heal the potential rift with the UN. Very rapidly the amount of US aid was increased from $35m to $350m.

The UN itself is now praising America's role, with its emergency co-ordinator describing the helicopters as "worth their weight in gold".

There, everyone happy :)

The US is a capitalist nation most business is privately owned, which means that most of our money is in the pockets of private citizens. This $350 million is not all of the money, nor is it the final amount which the government will spend. Quit politisizing this situation and shut up. Everyone wants to attack Bush and since they could not beat him in the polls they will try to beat him now. World :sniper:

Seeing how much America spent in Iraq and is still spending even $350million is stingy. Bush says that America gave 40% of all aid last year, but he doesn't mention that 47% of all military spending was by America. The whole thing stinks.

This is a way to solve every ones problems...
Take every one in the world and move them to the U.S.A. :rolleyes:
Sorry couldn’t help my self :headbang:

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/01/03/military.mission.ap/index.html
If you read this article not only money has been sent to help out the victims of this disaster from America.

Updated world donations (Million dollars)
African Union 0.10
Algeria 2.00
Australia 46.48
Austria 2.72
Bahrain 2.00
Britain 96.00
Bulgaria 0.14
Canada 33.00
China 60.42
Denmark 54.88
EU 40.81
Finland 6.12
France 56.18
Germany 27.21
Hungary 0.27
Ireland 13.62
Italy 95.00
Japan 500.00
Kuwait 10.00
Libya 2.00
Netherlands 34.00
New Zealand 3.60
Norway 180.00
Poland 1.00
Portugal 10.88
Qatar 25.00
Saudi Arabia 10.00
Singapore 3.10
Slovakia 0.23
Slovenia 0.11
South Korea 5.00
Spain 68.02
Sweden 80.00
Switzerland 23.81
Taiwan 5.25
Turkey 1.25
UAE 2.00
USA 350.00
Venezuela 2.00
World Bank 250.00
TOTAL: 1,940.73
my source... http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/01/02/world.relief.contribution.reut/index.html

1)All the money spent in Florida?

Several things there, one Florida is right there, its part of the US. Its the governments job to protect US citizens and ensure their safety. Any President who ignored what happened in Florida would have to be a rather horrid human being.

2)President Bush only promised 3 million at first?

And that was all it was a promise. The Congress has power of the purse. Not the President. Its up to Congress to determine what gets spent, where it gets spent.

3)Supposed Anti-Americanism in the UN?

Perish the thought..I saw Jan Egeland talk on CSPAN..suffice to say he played down US involvement until a couple of reporters asked what US contribution was...apparently China and India are contributing more than we are..whatever, we continue forward. Also Jan Egeland doesnt seem to know what he's talking about. He thinks only the UN can handle this kind of disaster which itself is complete and utter BS...whatever.

4) Stop politizing the relief effort!

Too late for that, the UN fired the first shot, folks on here fired the rest. It will become a contest of sorts..if the US donates too little(opinion) then more fire to the Anti-Bush propoganda..if the US donates more than what folks expect then nothing gets said. No one pats the US on the back for anything. Although Jan Egeland was forced to congradulate the US for answering his prays on his little 12 point wishlist...whatever.

1)... Any President who ignored what happened in Florida would have to be a rather horrid human being.....Nobody suggested Florida shouldve been ignored.

This is a way to solve every ones problems...
Take every one in the world and move them to the U.S.A. :rolleyes:
Sorry couldn’t help my self :headbang:

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/01/03/military.mission.ap/index.html
If you read this article not only money has been sent to help out the victims of this disaster from America.

Updated world donations (Million dollars)
African Union 0.10
Algeria 2.00
Australia 46.48
Austria 2.72
Bahrain 2.00
Britain 96.00
Bulgaria 0.14
Canada 33.00
China 60.42
Denmark 54.88
EU 40.81
Finland 6.12
France 56.18
Germany 27.21
Hungary 0.27
Ireland 13.62
Italy 95.00
Japan 500.00
Kuwait 10.00
Libya 2.00
Netherlands 34.00
New Zealand 3.60
Norway 180.00
Poland 1.00
Portugal 10.88
Qatar 25.00
Saudi Arabia 10.00
Singapore 3.10
Slovakia 0.23
Slovenia 0.11
South Korea 5.00
Spain 68.02
Sweden 80.00
Switzerland 23.81
Taiwan 5.25
Turkey 1.25
UAE 2.00
USA 350.00
Venezuela 2.00
World Bank 250.00
TOTAL: 1,940.73
my source... http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/01/02/world.relief.contribution.reut/index.html
Those Saudi's must be really short of cash! So the seat of Islam does not put it's hand in it's pocked to help any of the islamic people affected?

Nobody suggested Florida shouldve been ignored.

No but you folks make a big deal over what initially announced to what was spent in Florida.

No but you folks make a big deal over what initially announced to what was spent in Florida.what folks? pls use the quote function.

BTW the FL Ivan death toll was a grand total of...23

http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/109584463164260.xml

2. Initially he promised 3 Millions, which is a bad joke - you got to admit it. How many money did he mobilize to aid Florida after Ivan the Terrible? 13.6 BILLION, right?

Thats one..shall I go for more?

BTW the FL Ivan death toll was a grand total of...23

http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/109584463164260.xml

Flordianians have two things over folks in South East Asia..

1)Florida is connected to the US
2)Folks in Florida(for the overwhelming majority) are US citizens..so it could have killed 1 person or it could have killed 1,000 people the state was entitled to get aid from the Federal government. 26 deaths and billions of dollars worth of damage done.What kept the death toll down in Florida was the fact housing is built better, and surrounding states still had infustructure intact to readly assist.

OK, cant read the rest of the thread cos ive not got time to read 26 pages and i know im porbably butting into a conversation repeating what someone else has said but.

Please, any US citizen that believes this statement was directed at the US specifically i am begging you to stop you lunacy. The US government can not be allowed to now turn upon its nay sayers after the event has occured. The UN for all its buerocracy is an important tool for world peace, even if it only stabilises by its prescence rather than actions. In the coming months i expect a lot of "evidence" will be brought against the UN but im begging you not to listen to what the media is saying and go and find out what is actually happening.

The US spends 5% of its GNP on defense and .5% on foreign aid. Of course the US is stingy, it spends ten times more money on bombing poor countries than rebuilding them.

I didn't see anyone at any point blame Bush for the earthquake, the deaths.
So you didn't see the thread some reality-challenged idiot started that went something like "Bush's policy on global warming kills 50,000 and now threatens an island?" I'd say that's placing blame, wouldn't you?

this is the full post:
1. The criticism was NOT levelled at the US, but at Mr. Bush, as he (even a lot of Americans - at least the ones I know - say that) failed to realize what happened and it took him ages to react while other nations already reacted. Bad timing, that´s all, can´t really blame him for that.
2. Initially he promised 3 Millions, which is a bad joke - you got to admit it. How many money did he mobilize to aid Florida after Ivan the Terrible? 13.6 BILLION, right?
3. Anyway, he racked up 350 Million now + goods, personell and supplies
4. Noone doubts the INDIVIDUAL generosity of the average American. We all know they got big hearts and like to lend a hand, that´s why we like them.
looks to me.. like he is trying to be nice...

and as far as I know...that was the only reference to Floridas 13.6 billions.

BTW... i am happy Florida got that much help.

...What kept the death toll down in Florida was the fact housing is built better...a tsunami...is a different kind of beast.

The US spends 5% of its GNP on defense and .5% on foreign aid. Of course the US is stingy, it spends ten times more money on bombing poor countries than rebuilding them.

Umm US spends 3.3-3.6% of its GDP on defense.

Thats about 400 billion.

Do you know what .5% of 10.99 trillion is? Thats just a bit under 55 billion dollars. Thats not even counting private US based charities which generally do more than the government does. As an American citizen if the US spent 100 billion on foreign aid a year I'd ask myself, why is my money going toward aiding someone who isnt a US citizen? Its one thing to pony up funds for a specific tragedy but reckless spending of cash for foreign aid can best be left to the World Bank, and the UN.

this is the full post:

looks to me.. like he is trying to be nice...

and as far as I know...that was the only reference to Floridas 13.6 billions.

BTW... i am happy Florida got that much help.

There are other references in other threads..or do you think this is the only one dealing with this issue? :rolleyes:

As for it being the full post..its still a reference to the fact no matter how you look at it.

And thats nice your happy....didnt ask for your opinion on the matter though did I?

a tsunami...is a different kind of beast.

And yet aside from death toll they both had similar effects.

..or do you think this is the only one dealing with this issue?
thats what I think.

there is only one...you say there is more.
Where are they?

Flordianians have two things over folks in South East Asia..

1)Florida is connected to the US
2)Folks in Florida(for the overwhelming majority) are US citizens..so it could have killed 1 person or it could have killed 1,000 people the state was entitled to get aid from the Federal government. 26 deaths and billions of dollars worth of damage done.What kept the death toll down in Florida was the fact housing is built better, and surrounding states still had infustructure intact to readly assist.
Not to mention ... um... what do they call it? oh yeah warning

Wow, sure are a lot of people posting long hateful posts about the US in this thread. All I saw was http://www.animeleague.net/~berrik/emot-words.gif, with a few reasonable posts. :rolleyes:

The US gets it both ways-- if it doesn't give money, it's a tightwad nation that cares about no one else. If it does give money, then it's trying to purchase good opinion from the world.

Go outside once in a while, people.

Or don't. After all, the Internet is SERIOUS BUSINESS!

Wow, sure are a lot of people posting long hateful posts about the US in this thread. All I saw was http://www.animeleague.net/~berrik/emot-words.gif, with a few reasonable posts. :rolleyes:

The US gets it both ways-- if it doesn't give money, it's a tightwad nation that cares about no one else. If it does give money, then it's trying to purchase good opinion from the world.

Go outside once in a while, people.

Or don't. After all, the Internet is SERIOUS BUSINESS!
It does seem to happen that way …

My favorite was “nothing gets them funding like a guilt trip”

I mean what do we have to feel guilty about? Finding the funding? (350 mil don’t just pop out of no where)
Or maybe we have to feel guilty about immediately dispatching physical aid (according to recent reports moving and stationing and running relief efforts through the military ships) is costing about 10 mil a day…

Silliness … there may be some issues with our overall foreign aid stats but as for this individual effort for this , really seems all and all pretty good
(and has anyone SEEN how much money is flowing into the red cross! Go private doners!)

Part of the problem is that, no offence and all, America is easy to bash. Bush, whom much of the rest of the world view as a village idiot, was recently re-elected. That doesn't say much about the people.

Just to be clear here I'm not passing judgement, I'm just giving the perspective that many people outside of the US hold. I personally don't think all American people are gun toting idiots. I don't think they're not, in fact I don't know coz I've never been to America and I'm not going to pass judgement until I have-no wait, I'm not going to pass judgement unless I meet every last one of them. However I am of the OPINION that Bush is non too bright and doesn't really know what's going on in the world.

Also, America is THE world superpower. It's like the older sibling thing, you know, how the older one always has more expected of him or her. So the anti-Americanism isn't going away. It might not be fair but you Americans are just going to have to live with people doing it. Just think of them as narrow minded and get a big feeling of superiority from it, and let it go. Or get really pissed off and make others more anti-American.

Oh, and for goodness sake don't ever, EVER, say "God bless America"! How about "God bless everyone", that might help.



That was a little confused but, well.

That's really sad for the UN to stoop that low. Now, I'm not the biggest fan of America even though I live here, but there is one thing I am certain of. We ARE as a whole, warm-hearted and caring people. Ignorant yes. My god, we can all be so ignorant and stupid, and are most certainly not the most tolerant of people as a whole.

But we are not MEAN. Or stingy. When push comes to shove, your average American is very generous. Bloody hell, my MOTHER flew there to help with the disaster relief! That was just plain rude, and disgusting and I am beyond furious at the UN.

-Asylum Nova

PS: I'm sorry that sound so harsh everyone. I'm usually not that angry. But this really hurt my feelings. I can tolerate America being called all sorts of things, but not stingy.

Hmm... so what you're saying is that any contributions given to the US in the wake of any tragedies mean nothing if we don't then buy into the US' response afterwards?

Were the hell did you get that from? I have no idea where you did and its so false its not even worth telling you why!

You do realise that the term "warpath" makes the US sound like barbarians? I never thought I'd say it, but the US and UK governments actually did a pretty good job on spinning that one, didn't they?

Well excuse me for using a descriptive word and an accurate one because the US is on the warpath since losing 3000 citizens on our soil. All we ever get is bitching from the International Community for not doing enough or for doing to much. For this, that and the other thing!

Sorry but I don't care how much people give in their GDP. Government donations are government donations. It doesn't matter the GDP. The US Private Sector will give far more than any nation on this planet.

.... Bush, whom much of the rest of the world view as a village idiot.I wonder if average Americans realize this

I wonder if average Americans realize this

Does the rest of the world realize that there isn't anything that can be realistically done to contain American power, and that the US can do virtually anything it likes, and that in essence, the rest of the world is beholden to the will of a people who by and large can't name more than a handful of foreign nations? And who, in memory of 911, are lumping huge numbers of innocent people into the same trashbin?

And who could care less what you think because you can't stop one bit of it from happenning?

I wonder if average Americans realize this

Wonder if the average American cares? A govenorship and two presidencies later makes him one clever idiot huh?

Wonder if the average American cares? A govenorship and two presidencies later makes him one clever idiot huh?...or the people that voted for him.

Does the rest of the world realize that there isn't anything that can be realistically done to contain American power, and that the US can do virtually anything it likes, and that in essence, the rest of the world is beholden to the will of a people who by and large can't name more than a handful of foreign nations? And who, in memory of 911, are lumping huge numbers of innocent people into the same trashbin?

And who could care less what you think because you can't stop one bit of it from happenning?

No need to be jingoistic now. The folks on this board already stereotype the right enough on this board. Dont give them fuel to the fire. What the US can do shouldnt be flaunted so opennly but go ahead and subtly say it.

I wonder if average Americans realize this
As an average American, and a member of the Armed Services, I give a rats ass what the rest of the world think of my leader. I don't vote for my president based on what anybody elee thinks, i vote for my president based on who i think is going to serve me better. You would better serve yourself to ignore what the declining members of the world body think.

...or the people that voted for him.
evidently his oponents and critics are idiots, for their inability to defeat him.

...or the people that voted for him.

Funny, so 54 million americans are idiots because they didnt vote for who you wanted? Doesnt that kinda fly in the face of good sportsmanship, democracy itself, and reaks of sour grapes?

... the US can do virtually anything it likes.Can they catch Osama?
Can they win the "war on terror"?

Can they catch Osama?
Can they win the "war on terror"?

Maybe not. But the rest of the world has to sit back in horror and helplessness while we try really hard to do it.

Reminds me of the bull in a china shop...

Maybe not. But the rest of the world has to sit back in horror and helplessness while we try really hard to do it.

Reminds me of the bull in a china shop...


Reminds me of the last days of the Roman Empire...

You'll be waiting quite a while. Rome was not half as vigorous as the US. Nor was the world dependent on it.

If the US falls into major decline, Europe will most certainly go with it.

You'll be waiting quite a while.
me bad...

working and debating at the same time...

Better finish this report..and come back later...(ill be back)

I'm a 16 year old and i donated 98 dollars to Direct Relief International. It was all the money I had in the house.

I think i'll move to sweden someday.

If the US falls into major decline, Europe will most certainly go with it.

don't be so sure... the U.S. economy has been falling for over four years now and Europe's is only climbing. Especially with the creation of a multi-national currency, the E. U. is getting very independant.

this is the full post:

looks to me.. like he is trying to be nice...

and as far as I know...that was the only reference to Floridas 13.6 billions.


No, I was not trying to be nice - I was just posting a few facts. That´s all. My personal opinion on that matter is irrelevant, but be assured, I bear no ill will towards the people of the USA or Mr. Bush.

I was just pointing out that some people might interpret spending and mobilzing 13.6 billion dollars on the important election 2004 state of Floridain a very short time makes spending 3 at first and 35 later, then followed by a total of 350 million look a "bit stingy".

On a side note, the FRG will probably increase their aid from 27 million to 500 million €s on wednesday. I hope they´ll do, the folks down there can really use another big wad of cash :)

don't be so sure... the U.S. economy has been falling for over four years now and Europe's is only climbing. Especially with the creation of a multi-national currency, the E. U. is getting very independant.

BULL!!! American Economy has been climbing the last couple of years. I guess you don't follow the Economic News as well as you should.

BULL!!! American Economy has been climbing the last couple of years. I guess you don't follow the Economic News as well as you should.

uh, what the hell?

take a look at the dollar's value relative to the Euro and the british pound. that alone should tell you all you need to know.

The fact that we're down over 1 million jobs since 2000 isn't very good either.

i'm going to make a wild guess and assume that you voted for bush.

:confused: :sniper:

uh, what the hell?

Yea! I could say the samething! In fact I will! What the hell?

take a look at the dollar's value relative to the Euro and the british ound. that alone should tell you all you need to know.

And yet we had the fastest economic growth since the Reagan Administration! 3rd Quarters numbers were through the roof. Rapid GDP Growth the 3rd Quarter. Household income also rose up in the 3rd Quarter. Don't tell me that our economy is in the toilet. All the numbers say otherwise.

The fact that we're down over 1 million jobs since 2000 isn't very good either.

And yet we are gaining new jobs too! Ok now that we have trumped that line what else do you have?

i'm going to make a wild guess and assume that you voted for bush.

:confused: :sniper:

Let me guess? Your a Kerry supporter who believed that our economy was in ruins? Our economy is growing. Our Economy will continue to grow. Jobs ARE being created. I suggest you do research into the US Economy. Maybe the dollar isn't doing to well but you know what? Its not the only indicator of a good economy. The other indicators are indicating a growing economy.

That's really sad for the UN to stoop that low. Now, I'm not the biggest fan of America even though I live here, but there is one thing I am certain of. We ARE as a whole, warm-hearted and caring people. Ignorant yes. My god, we can all be so ignorant and stupid, and are most certainly not the most tolerant of people as a whole.

But we are not MEAN. Or stingy. When push comes to shove, your average American is very generous. Bloody hell, my MOTHER flew there to help with the disaster relief! That was just plain rude, and disgusting and I am beyond furious at the UN.

-Asylum Nova

PS: I'm sorry that sound so harsh everyone. I'm usually not that angry. But this really hurt my feelings. I can tolerate America being called all sorts of things, but not stingy.

Please go to the beginning of this thread and read the EXACT quote from that UN guy as posted by Incertonia (should be the 3rd post IIRC).

Your outrage is unwarranted.

Yea! I could say the samething! In fact I will! What the hell?

okay...


we had the fastest economic growth since the Reagan Administration! 3rd Quarters numbers were through the roof. Rapid GDP Growth the 3rd Quarter. Household income also rose up in the 3rd Quarter. Don't tell me that our economy is in the toilet. All the numbers say otherwise.

its not like they could've gotten worse. nicer looking shit does not make it smell any better.


And yet we are gaining new jobs too! Ok now that we have trumped that line what else do you have?


WE ARE DOWN ONE MILLION JOBS. WHEN WE ARE NO LONG DOWN ANY JOBS AT ALL, YOU WILL HAVE COUNTERED MY POINT.

like i said, nicer looking shit does not make is smell any better.

Maybe the dollar isn't doing to well but you know what? Its not the only indicator of a good economy. The other indicators are indicating a growing economy.

the other indicators do indeed imply a growing economy, but just because its growing DOESN'T MEAN ITS BAD.

the falling dollar and soaring gas prices are more than enough to show that our economy sucks. wake up.

uh, what the hell?

take a look at the dollar's value relative to the Euro and the british pound. that alone should tell you all you need to know.

The fact that we're down over 1 million jobs since 2000 isn't very good either.

i'm going to make a wild guess and assume that you voted for bush.

:confused: :sniper:

You're absolutely right about the pound and Euro, but there have been more jobs created in the last year or two... Yes, before that, we lost a LOT of jobs. We are starting to very gradually get them back, though. Granted, most of those jobs are either for people with years of experience, or low-wage jobs that are very difficult to survive on. Recent college grads (what I and all my friends happen to be) are still a pretty screwed group.

Just so everyone who is arguing about the econmy knows: the US economy si 'strong', I wouldn't say its super strong or growing fantastically though.

Even Alan Greenspan is more than a tad worried about the trade deficits we are developing

http://money.cnn.com/2004/02/25/news/economy/greenspan/

When it comes to the US economy, always listen to Greenspan. Anyone else you ignore, especially if they are connected to the White House or are some political talking head.

Trust in Greenspan!

okay...

Got that satisfied.

its not like they could've gotten worse. nicer looking shit does not make it smell any better.

Well we were in a recession when 9/11 went down which made it worse but thanks to Bush's economic policies are back on our feet. If our economy was in dire straights, Bush would've been tossed out of office and he wasn't.

WE ARE DOWN ONE MILLION JOBS. WHEN WE ARE NO LONG DOWN ANY JOBS AT ALL, YOU WILL HAVE COUNTERED MY POINT.

And Haven't you seen that is what has happened? Yes we lost one million jobs but they are coming back! I suggest you look at the jobs gained and then subtract them from that number! You might be surprised.

like i said, nicer looking shit does not make is smell any better.

Well excuse me for telling the truth that our economy is strong.

the other indicators do indeed imply a growing economy, but just because its growing DOESN'T MEAN ITS BAD.

Correct and thanks for proving my point! I take it you misstyped with what you yelled at me with?

the falling dollar and soaring gas prices are more than enough to show that our economy sucks. wake up.

Soaring gas prices because there is a demand for oil! Boy you really have no business sense do you? India and China are also competing for oil! The Russian Oil Industry is almost in the toilet. Venezuala is having their own political problems and they export oil too! DO YOU SEE the pattern?

Just so everyone who is arguing about the econmy knows: the US economy si 'strong', I wouldn't say its super strong or growing fantastically though.

Even Alan Greenspan is more than a tad worried about the trade deficits we are developing

http://money.cnn.com/2004/02/25/news/economy/greenspan/

When it comes to the US economy, always listen to Greenspan. Anyone else you ignore, especially if they are connected to the White House or are some political talking head.

Trust in Greenspan!

Greenspan has way to much power! I don't trust Greenspan never have.

You're absolutely right about the pound and Euro, but there have been more jobs created in the last year or two... Yes, before that, we lost a LOT of jobs. We are starting to very gradually get them back, though. Granted, most of those jobs are either for people with years of experience, or low-wage jobs that are very difficult to survive on. Recent college grads (what I and all my friends happen to be) are still a pretty screwed group.

I'm a Junior in College. It all depends on what your degree is in too.

I'm a Junior in College. It all depends on what your degree is in too.

Oh, absolutely. If I wanted to be a nurse, I'd be golden.

Well we were in a recession when 9/11 went down which made it worse but thanks to Bush's economic policies are back on our feet. If our economy was in dire straights, Bush would've been tossed out of office and he wasn't.


I'm not going to debate voter idiocy with you.


And Haven't you seen that is what has happened? Yes we lost one million jobs but they are coming back! I suggest you look at the jobs gained and then subtract them from that number! You might be surprised.


we lost over 3 million, moron. we're back UP TO negative one million, give or take 500k. probablly closer to -1.5


Correct and thanks for proving my point! I take it you misstyped with what you yelled at me with?


Idiocy makes my fingers twitch.


Soaring gas prices because there is a demand for oil! Boy you really have no business sense do you? India and China are also competing for oil! The Russian Oil Industry is almost in the toilet. Venezuala is having their own political problems and they export oil too! DO YOU SEE the pattern?

Bush said he would bring down gas prices. he hasn't. also, isn't getting the short end of the stick on the gas front another sign of economic weakening? and weren't china and india competing for oil two, five, ten years ago???

Find a quote from anything that says that russia is exporting less oil and i'll concede the point. not until then.

I'm not going to debate voter idiocy with you.

Oh so the people that voted for Bush are idiots now? Boy don't you have a grudge when a candidate you like loses. Good don't debate it because it ain't worth it.

we lost over 3 million, moron. we're back UP TO negative one million, give or take 500k. probablly closer to -1.5

Resorting to name calling now? Wow! You invalidated your arguement. If you don't believe me, take a debating class.

Idiocy makes my fingers twitch.

Mine too!

Bush said he would bring down gas prices. he hasn't. also, isn't getting the short end of the stick on the gas front another sign of economic weakening? and weren't china and india competing for oil two, five, ten years ago???

He has no control over Gas Prices. I'm sorry if you don't believe it! As for Oil Prices, here's something else for you to consider. Russia is having oil troubles because of one of its companies and its only one I think. Don't know for sure. Nigeria has had labor problems in its own oil industry thus sparking a price rise in barrels of oil. OPEC too has had a hand in it as well. Don't forget Venezuala and their political crisis they've been having too. All of this drives the price of Oil. Now tack on the Oil Competetion in China and India, two of the worlds populace nations, and you have a serious problem. Are you understanding how the business works now?

Find a quote from anything that says that russia is exporting less oil and i'll concede the point. not until then.

Their company is in bankruptcy and facing criminal charges. I forget the company name otherwise I would oblige you but from my understanding they are shut down. If you can prove me otherwise, please do so but I do know for a fact that the Russian Oil Industry is in dire straights.

and soaring gas prices

If you're worried about soaring gas prices, it certainly isn't the fault of the Republicans. The Left-wing attacks anyone who says "Oil drilling" and "Alaska" in the same sentence. Awww....the poor caribou. Idiots.

Resorting to name calling now? Wow! You invalidated your arguement. If you don't believe me, take a debating class.


I assumed that everyone on this forum had basic knowledge of just how many jobs our country has lost. i didn't invalidate it, i explained and expanded upon it, since you obviously don't track the news that doesn't make the 'publicans look good. my apologies.


He has no control over Gas Prices. I'm sorry if you don't believe it! As for Oil Prices, here's something else for you to consider. Russia is having oil troubles because of one of its companies and its only one I think. Don't know for sure. Nigeria has had labor problems in its own oil industry thus sparking a price rise in barrels of oil. OPEC too has had a hand in it as well. Don't forget Venezuala and their political crisis they've been having too. All of this drives the price of Oil. Now tack on the Oil Competetion in China and India, two of the worlds populace nations, and you have a serious problem. Are you understanding how the business works now?

you completely ignored my point about india and china. they were the most populous nations in the world fifty years ago. the fact that they still are explains jack.

also, the company was called Yukos. the main oil-producing section of it was recently sold to a puppet company which was in fact a front for a government controlled company, meaning that oil production in Russia is essentially in the hands of the government.

also also, if bush has no control over gas prices then why does he claim to and make empty promises?

yes, some countries are having political crises, but that does not neccesarily mean that their exports have been affected. again, find something definitve to prove me otherwise.


alrighty, that seems to be it. reply with whatever arguments you feel; just don't resort to changing tacks just so that you can feel like you 'won' a debate. everyone else i argue with on politics always seems to head there eventually.

:eek:

The US economy is right now in a state where it either sinks or it sees a resurgent growth. With the dollar the way it is right now, its now cheaper to import from the US than it is to import from an EU neighbor. Speaking of which its nice to point out the EU and say how powerful it is..then again of course it would be powerful when you combine how many different developed countries economies? If the US expanded NAFTA to be more EUish and Mexico and Canada put their currencies into one North American Currency it would be stronger than the EU in terms of purchasing power. Right now it took all the nations of the EU to rival that of the US, and its only a matter of time before other trading blocs are formed to rival the EU.

As for the Roman Empire, Ocean, in its final days it couldnt do any of the stuff it did at the height of its power..and how long did the Roman Empire last again? If the US was in its final days like the Roman Empire we wouldnt be able to get away with the stuff we're currently getting away with.

I assumed that everyone on this forum had basic knowledge of just how many jobs our country has lost. i didn't invalidate it, i explained and expanded upon it, since you obviously don't track the news that doesn't make the 'publicans look good. my apologies.

No, you invalidated it when you insulted me by calling me a moron. The first rule of debate is don't show your anger. Second rule of debate is don't insult or swear. You hurled an insult at me and showed anger. THus you violated the first two rules of debate and thus invalidated your arguement. I know full well how many jobs were lost and I also know that Bush WAS NOT responsible for many of them. We had a Recession couple by 9/11 as well as the .com bubble burst. This cost many jobs. 9/11 cost us many jobs in the Airline industries followed by the industries that rely on that industry. Because of that hotels suffered and the tourism industry fell too costing us more jobs. I do know that the jobs are coming back. Slowly yes, but they are coming back.

you completely ignored my point about india and china. they were the most populous nations in the world fifty years ago. the fact that they still are explains jack.

China and India are up and coming and are consuming alot of oil. They're oil demand is up and that is driving the price of oil up because of the demand. Supply and demand. The more the supply and less demand, prices go down. The more demand and less supply, prices go up! Besides, BOTH NATIONS are coming up in the technological world and thus need oil.

also, the company was called Yukos. the main oil-producing section of it was recently sold to a puppet company which was in fact a front for a government controlled company, meaning that oil production in Russia is essentially in the hands of the government.

That was it. And sense its in the hands of the government and no longer private, goes to show that Russia has no intentions of being a capitalist nation.

also also, if bush has no control over gas prices then why does he claim to and make empty promises?

How the hell should I know. He's a politician. Politicians do things that no one can fathom.

yes, some countries are having political crises, but that does not neccesarily mean that their exports have been affected. again, find something definitve to prove me otherwise.

Doesn't matter. The fact that they are in crisis in oil rich countries is enough to drive prices up because of the unstable political atmosphere.

alrighty, that seems to be it. reply with whatever arguments you feel; just don't resort to changing tacks just so that you can feel like you 'won' a debate. everyone else i argue with on politics always seems to head there eventually.

I don't! I stick to my guns and if I'm wrong, I own up to it.

:eek:

Agreed!

As for this whole India/China oil issue, five-ten years ago they werent purchasing and werent developed as they are NOW. Its estimated that between the years of 2008-2012 China will be purchasing more vehicles than the current #1 vehicle buyer(the US). China also needs the oil to continue to fuel its economic growth. Hence why China refused even considering thoughts of sanctions on the Sudan. Forget about anyone screwing with Iran either.

As for gas prices, if you even paid meager attention to Dateline NBC or other news the price of oil has dropped. Not dramatically, but it has dropped, as has the price of crude oil. Infact you can pretty much guess if gasoline prices are on the rise or not by looking at the price of crude oil and whether its showing a trend of dropping or increasing over several weeks,

Corneliu, i'm gonna respond to each paragraph of yours with a bullet point; quoting gets me down.

-this is an online forum, not your junior high debate squad. i can call you anything i want; it still doesn't invalidate the fact that you don't have your shit together.

-you aren't giving any specifics and are obviously just pursuing something you feel i am shaky on. "New York and Jersey", whoever you are, your knowledge on this subject is obviously superior to mine.

-a) you can't spell for shit, b) i don't believe that that applies to the debate.

-bush more than others. the empty promises are the main reason that i despise him; the fact that he convinces america that its the democrats fault that he lies like a rug is another.

-finally, reasoning. point conceded.

-no, you haven't.

-counter :eek:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

New York And Jersey, i don't watch tv. never had cable, thanks to my mother's fear of entertainment, and the tv we have doesn't get any local stations besides fox, which i refuse to watch.

Corneliu, i'm gonna respond to each paragraph of yours with a bullet point; quoting gets me down.

Yea it was becoming a pain.

-this is an online forum, not your junior high debate squad. i can call you anything i want; it still doesn't invalidate the fact that you don't have your shit together.

However, most people on here will tell you the samething. Insults don't solve anything in a debate. Your right! Its an online forumn and I never was in a debate squad in High School.

-you aren't giving any specifics and are obviously just pursuing something you feel i am shaky on. "New York and Jersey", whoever you are, your knowledge on this subject is obviously superior to mine.

Excuse me what? I told you precisely why the oil prices were up.

-a) you can't spell for shit, b) i don't believe that that applies to the debate.

Now your critizing my spelling? This isn't english class. And what are you saying does not apply to this debate?

-bush more than others. the empty promises are the main reason that i despise him; the fact that he convinces america that its the democrats fault that he lies like a rug is another.

All politicians lie. I've seen some massive ones in the last Administration! Lying under oath which is purgery? Every politician lies.

-finally, reasoning. point conceded.

About time you saw what I was saying.

-no, you haven't.

To which point? Oh that one! Yes I have.

-counter :eek:

lol!

a) sigh. i'm done with this.

b) you criticized me for a typo earlier. don't go nuts because i saw one spelling error too many.

i have homework to do. look on the bright side; the feelings about america that you've inspired in me are gonna make it an almost enjoyable experience. relatively, of course.

a) sigh. i'm done with this.

Aww. It was just getting civilized :(

b) you criticized me for a typo earlier. don't go nuts because i saw one spelling error too many.

I didn't critize you for a type. I critized you for an insult! Big difference.

i have homework to do. look on the bright side; the feelings about america that you've inspired in me are gonna make it an almost enjoyable experience. relatively, of course.

LOL!! You have homework? Geez, I don't get homework till the 10th of this month. Have fun with your homework. If you ever like to talk again, feel free to im me or something.

Its been a pleasure my friend. Take Care!

True individual freedom ... I am curious though how much IS being donated ... just curious

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/world/2983308

Here is one story

...Bush WAS NOT responsible...
Bush: It was not my fault...It was British Intelligence...I was Italian info...It wa s the CIA...It was the FBI...It was "Bad Intelligence"...It was no clear...

...nothing was my fault

http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2005/010305.asp

Bush: It was not my fault...It was British Intelligence...I was Italian info...It wa s the CIA...It was the FBI...It was "Bad Intelligence"...It was no clear...

...nothing was my fault
With smarts like that he could make it big time in cooperate live.