NationStates Jolt Archive

Since the Bush administration was "elected" in 2000 the USA has been increasingly showing similarities with fascism. Extreme nationalism, militarism, disrespect for human rights and the religious right are all associated with fascism and are strongly present in modern America.
See this article - "The 14 points of fascism" which compares the USA with fascism:
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

Oh, goody.
Another bloody idiot who automatically assumes that the 'religious right' is composed entirly of baby Hitlers.
Sir, I hate and despise you. Please die.

Far from it.

Europaland:

You, sir, are an idiot.

Since the Bush administration was "elected" in 2000 the USA has been increasingly showing similarities with fascism. Extreme nationalism, militarism, disrespect for human rights and the religious right are all associated with fascism and are strongly present in modern America.
See this article - "The 14 points of fascism" which compares the USA with fascism:
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

Wasn't it Hitler who said, "The religions are all the same, no matter what they call themselves. They have no future- certainly none for the Germans. Fascism, if it likes, may come to terms with the Church. So shall I. Why not? That won't prevent me from tearing up Christianity root and branch- and annihilating it in Germany."

Great. Another idiot screaming about the evil American Empire. Sometimes I wish the Soviet Union was still around so that you could see what a real evil empire looks like.

Is Britain fascist? I mean, Hitler also said: "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" and doesnt Britain have strict gun laws?

Great. Another idiot screaming about the evil American Empire. Sometimes I wish the Soviet Union was still around so that you could see what a real evil empire looks like.
It wouldnt matter, they can look at North Korea, Saudi Arabia and eighty other nations, but they dont, because they like to whine about America, because, (not to sound arrogant :P), we own them on so many levels.

Course it is: Pinochet-Allende, Argentina and it's junta, Kissinger, Israel-Palestina, Iraq, Von Braun and thousands of other facts.

BUT it is not a people that is fascist. Some businessscum wich can be seen as BRWN (Bibble right wing nuts) or Jezuslandfreaks in combination with the defence-oil conglomerate are the bad guys. Not the people that are kept poor, dum (education cuttings) and more ignorant by lack of informarion then the new renaisance continent we see across the atlantic.The US citizen, Joe Sixpack, is also a victim. I have some friends in Texas and those guys that travell around the world are the bigest enemy of those "fascists" because they have access to free media and see the things that are censured in the US.

Look, we understand America has fucked up alot, but saying that we're full-blown fascists is completely ludicrous and you know that. Michael Moore would be dead if we were fascists.

Look, we understand America has fucked up alot, but saying that we're full-blown fascists is completely ludicrous and you know that. Michael Moore would be dead if we were fascists.

In that case, let's become fascists ASAP!!! :D

(Lol, sorry, that was a rather tasteless joke :()

I couldn't agree with any of that article. For example: How is nationilism a part of facism? I don't think any of the even SEMI-major nations are non nationalistic overall...

The nationalism will recede eventually. It happened after Pearl Harbor, it ll happen again sooner or later.

I don't really think the US is facist; however, it does seem to lean towards it more than most major nations do, in my opinion.

I couldn't agree with any of that article. For example: How is nationilism a part of facism? I don't think any of the even SEMI-major nations are non nationalistic overall...

One of the major tenets of fascism is extreme nationalism. "Nazi" is short for the German "National Socialist." However, the patriotism of fascisim is forced by the state. In the US, no one is forcing anybody to be patriotic.

I don't really think the US is facist; however, it does seem to lean towards it more than most major nations do, in my opinion.

Correction: in the Western world. But Ive heard that Poland is also pretty conservative.

the US is far too economically right wing to be fascist. fascism maintained very tight controls on wages and corperate profits. now socially and politically the US is verging toward moderate authoritarianism, but still to a far lesser level than even the most democratic of third world nations.

Look, we understand America has fucked up alot, but saying that we're full-blown fascists is completely ludicrous and you know that. Michael Moore would be dead if we were fascists.

In many ways the USA is becoming increasingly fascist. The reason I think this is because of the extreme nationalism and militarism which are far more present in the USA than any other western nations and has been growing at an alarming rate over the last few years. The extreme patriotism and the way Americans blindly follow their government has many similarities with Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy. I'm not sure if the USA has reached full fascism yet but it is certainly moving in that direction and it may only be a matter of years until it is too late.

Great. Another idiot screaming about the evil American Empire. Sometimes I wish the Soviet Union was still around so that you could see what a real evil empire looks like.

The USSR was not an "evil" empire. Thats just what "capitalists" would like you to think.
The USSR was a group of nations who believed in the ideals of communism. Communism is not evil.

you apparently dont know much about america. you dont realise that alot of the heat america recieves as a whole comes from ... take a guess...AMERICA YOU IDIOT!!! we dont blindly follow we complain about every little thing the government does personally i think we do it to much. and trust me i know more about ww2 then most historians do, if you dont believe me ask my teachers, and america is NOTHING like germany in ww2 so get over your little europeans wanting to blame america for every problem the world has!

Yes America is not like Germany. But then, who said Germany was the symbol of fascism? American can be its own Fascism without being the same as Germany.

In many ways the USA is becoming increasingly fascist. The reason I think this is because of the extreme nationalism and militarism which are far more present in the USA than any other western nations and has been growing at an alarming rate over the last few years. The extreme patriotism and the way Americans blindly follow their government has many similarities with Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy. I'm not sure if the USA has reached full fascism yet but it is certainly moving in that direction and it may only be a matter of years until it is too late.

Generalizations. 49% of us voted against Bush.

and trust me i know more about ww2 then most historians do, if you dont believe me ask my teachers

that has to be one of the most pathetically humorous statements i've ever heard.

The USSR was not an "evil" empire. Thats just what "capitalists" would like you to think.
The USSR was a group of nations who believed in the ideals of communism. Communism is not evil.

Gulags were actually picnic sites.

The USSR was not an "evil" empire. Thats just what "capitalists" would like you to think.
The USSR was a group of nations who believed in the ideals of communism. Communism is not evil.
Communism may not be evil in itself, but the USSR didn't practice communism.

Gulags were actually picnic sites.
well at least they found productive labor for the counter revolutionary scum.

Gulags were actually picnic sites.
I suppose the Japanese internment camps were, too.

The USSR was not an "evil" empire. Thats just what "capitalists" would like you to think.
The USSR was a group of nations who believed in the ideals of communism. Communism is not evil.

That wasn't Communism at all. Communism is everyone working for each other's common good, doing what needs to be done, taking only what they need. Russian Communism was a group of high-ups making everything run like clockwork.

Not the same thing.

Yes America is not like Germany. But then, who said Germany was the symbol of fascism? American can be its own Fascism without being the same as Germany.

Can you rewrite that comprehensibly?

that has to be one of the most pathetically humorous statements i've ever heard.
dude....all me and my friends do is read and discuss ww2. we have no lives whatsover . i can tell you almost anything about ww2 if its in a book somewhere. i can even tell you specific information about weapons used in ww2. so shut up unless you know what your talking about.

btw i plan on being a historian my self

The USSR was not an "evil" empire. Thats just what "capitalists" would like you to think.
The USSR was a group of nations who believed in the ideals of communism.
Communism is not evil btw.

Ok, but you are on a right wing dominated forum now, so most won't get into the intellectual details of Marx or Engels (besides they have read something of them in (our?) Mc Crap country). Spare youreself the attempt, they are as far as Germany in the 30ties, they don't accept critics on our system or our nation and we lack the free press you guys have with a open view to towards the world.

Not a communist, just a mountain guide that looks beyond his own private life.

well at least they found productive labor for the counter revolutionary scum.

So poets and gymnasts who say that the government might be doing something wrong deserve to be thrown away into a frozen wasteland?

I wouldn't go as far as to call it fascist but it's gotten pretty bad.

How is nationilism a part of facism?

Are you serious?

Gulags were actually picnic sites.

How is criminal forced labor evil?

I suppose the Japanese internment camps were, too.

Japanese internment camps were a horrible time in AMerican history. Gulags were much worse.

So poets and gymnasts who say that the government might be doing something wrong deserve to be thrown away into a frozen wasteland?
Well yeah, what because they are artists or atheletes they should be given special treatment? So, its okay to put common criminals into labor camps like the US but its wrong to put people with special talents their if they break the laws like in the old Soviet Union?

Ok, but you are on a right wing dominated forum now, so most won't get into the intellectual details of Marx or Engels (besides they have read something of them in (our?) Mc Crap country). Spare youreself the attempt, they are as far as Germany in the 30ties, they don't accept critics on our system or our nation and we lack the free press you guys have with a open view to towards the world.

Not a communist, just a mountain guide that looks beyond his own private life.

A right wing dominated forum? Hahahaha...oh. You're being serious. Nevermind.

Ok, but you are on a right wing dominated forum now,

On which mods and admins have admitted left wing views and one was a staunch bush slammer (Stephistan). Hey, where is the server located again? I'm not saying this is some left wing center for bashing conservativism, but it is far from right wing dominated.

so most won't get into the intellectual details of Marx or Engels (besides they have read something of them in (our?) Mc Crap country).

Have you attempted to discuss Marx and Engels here?

I could go into a deep intellectual discussion, but your pretentious attitue can only illicite one single McCrap response from me.

BITE ME

Spare youreself the attempt, they are as far as Germany in the 30ties,

I wish we had the industrial production they had then.

they don't accept critics on our system or our nation

Ya, look at the execution of dissenters we have everyday on PPV

and we lack the free press you guys have with a open view to towards the world.

you mean Eurocentric view. Subtle difference.

Not a communist, just a mountain guide that looks beyond his own private life.

I don't think you can see very much with your head in that certain dark crevace.

Ok, but you are on a right wing dominated forum now, so most won't get into the intellectual details of Marx or Engels (besides they have read something of them in (our?) Mc Crap country). Spare youreself the attempt, they are as far as Germany in the 30ties, they don't accept critics on our system or our nation and we lack the free press you guys have with a open view to towards the world.

Not a communist, just a mountain guide that looks beyond his own private life.

Right-wing dominated! LOL!

Well yeah, what because they are artists or atheletes they should be given special treatment? So, its okay to put common criminals into labor camps like the US but its wrong to put people with special talents their if they break the laws like in the old Soviet Union?

We don't have labor camps in the US, unless you count prisoners picking up trash by the road. That's why it's different. And as for the USSR being evil...the government of that country killed almost five times as many people as Hitler in the Holocaust. The combine regimes of the USSR and the People's* Republic of China killed a total of about 95 million for no greater crime than dissention.

*People=Ministers of the Politburo, not actual People

Japanese internment camps were a horrible time in AMerican history. Gulags were much worse.
the japanese hadn't committed any crimes, the counter revolutionaries, traitors and common criminals in the gulags had.

the japanese hadn't committed any crimes, the counter revolutionaries, traitors and common criminals in the gulags had.

So that justifies horrible treatment of human beings? Do you favor the death penalty? Do you favor torture at Guantamano Bay? Just wondering.

We don't have labor camps in the US, unless you count prisoners picking up trash by the road. That's why it's different.

yes you do, you have prison industries, prison farms and prison boot camps all essentually the same as gulags except perhaps for the weather.

Japanese internment camps were a horrible time in AMerican history. Gulags were much worse.

So, are you saying that it is OK for Americans to do it, but not for anyone else to?

Treatment at gulags was worse than at interment camps, but at least the people put in gulags were guilty of SOMETHING, even if was only arguing with the government. Even that was once illegal in the US.

Well yeah, what because they are artists or atheletes they should be given special treatment? So, its okay to put common criminals into labor camps like the US but its wrong to put people with special talents their if they break the laws like in the old Soviet Union?

No, the artists and atheletes expresse3d opinions that the oligarcy (and don't lie to yourself, thats what it was) didn't like.

Thats completly different from armed robbery or other crimes.

And I'd say its a safe bet that prisons here are way better than the gulags.

the japanese hadn't committed any crimes, the counter revolutionaries, traitors and common criminals in the gulags had.
Most people wouldn't consider being the first to stop clapping at one of Stalin's speeches a crime, either.

So that justifies horrible treatment of human beings? Do you favor the death penalty? Do you favor torture at Guantamano Bay? Just wondering.
the gulags were not for torture but for productive labor and political rehabilitation.

So, are you saying that it is OK for Americans to do it, but not for anyone else to?

Treatment at gulags was worse than at interment camps, but at least the people put in gulags were guilty of SOMETHING, even if was only arguing with the government. Even that was once illegal in the US.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said it was okay for americans to do it. I simply stated that the gulags were much, much more horrible.

In many ways the USA is becoming increasingly fascist. The reason I think this is because of the extreme nationalism and militarism which are far more present in the USA than any other western nations and has been growing at an alarming rate over the last few years. The extreme patriotism and the way Americans blindly follow their government has many similarities with Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy. I'm not sure if the USA has reached full fascism yet but it is certainly moving in that direction and it may only be a matter of years until it is too late.

"Extreme nationalism and militarism", where did you get that from?

"Blindly following the government", about 48% of the country doesn't follow the government as is.

FYI.The U.S. is made up of more than just the South and Mid-West...

Treatment at gulags was worse than at interment camps, but at least the people put in gulags were guilty of SOMETHING, even if was only arguing with the government. Even that was once illegal in the US.

When has it been illegal to speak out against the government of the United States?

So, are you saying that it is OK for Americans to do it, but not for anyone else to?

Treatment at gulags was worse than at interment camps, but at least the people put in gulags were guilty of SOMETHING, even if was only arguing with the government. Even that was once illegal in the US.
They were guilty of being Japanese-Americans.

Most people wouldn't consider being the first to stop clapping at one of Stalin's speeches a crime, either.
most people at the time in the ussr did. justice is based on the laws of the society, not your yankee pretentions to universal american truth.

When has it been illegal to speak out against the government of the United States?
when hasn't it been.

Actually, in the USSR laws were based on the decisions of the Politburo and were enforced by first the Cheka, then the NKVD, then the KGB. The people had no say.

most people at the time in the ussr did. justice is based on the laws of the society, not your yankee pretentions to universal american truth.
How do you know what most people at the time in the USSR did? It didn't matter what most people thought, but rather at the time (Stalin's time), it only usually mattered what he thought, and if you disagreed you were usually sent east or shot.

Actually, we base our ideas of law and order on English common law as well as the works of those like Descartes, Locke and Hobbes. The Enlightenment in europe had a great effect on the shaping of this country.

There is a curious irony in a nation forcing democratization onto another nation...What truely would be fascism is an unchecked government restructuring our lives to a simple pattern without deviation...fierce nationalism comes prior to a fascist state we aren't one(hope to never be one) but there certainly are some people in america who are fascists Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson come to mind. I only know of two types of theocratic states in the past century Lamaist(tibet and maybe still mongolia) and Islamic(Saudia Arabia, Sudan, and Iran). I'd probaly only like to live in the first one)
the united states is not internally fascist, but externally it certainly has some control issues :)

when hasn't it been.

What are you, retarded? Michael Moore, John Stewart, and an assortment of celebrities have gotten away with slamming the government.

when hasn't it been.

People have spoken out against the government as long as the US has existed. Depending on when you decide America got its independence (1776 or 1783) that's 228 or 221 years. So, to answer your question: quite a while, actually.

When has it been illegal to speak out against the government of the United States?

In 1798, Congress passed the Sedition Act, which made it illegal to speak out against the government. It is no longer in effect today, but it did happen.

In 1798, Congress passed the Sedition Act, which made it illegal to speak out against the government. It is no longer in effect today, but it did happen.

This is true. You'd think that the government would be more aware of the Bill of Rights it had just passed a few years before...

though corporate control of the media is indeed contrary to our interests in truth ;)
Where does the first amendman end and the fourth amendman begin? (press/speech/privacy)
I really don't think business should harbor the same rights that an individual has (privacy, especially companies of the energy variety)

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said it was okay for americans to do it. I simply stated that the gulags were much, much more horrible.

If you'll notice, I was only asking if that's what you thought. I didn't say you did.

Fascism, such as it exists, is not limited to the right wing, Goodann. Many liberals do not like to hear people arguing with them (Michael Moore, Susan Sarandon, etc.). One of fascism's central tenets is the suppresion of criticism of those in power. The Hollywood Left want to be in power, and they do not want criticism. So, they're just about as fascist as Jerry Falwell. Just thought I'd point that out.

the japanese hadn't committed any crimes, the counter revolutionaries, traitors and common criminals in the gulags had.
Crimes such as - speaking ill of those in power, practicing any form of religion, publishing articles critical of the government ...

The Sedition Act made it illegal to advocate violent overthrow of the United States government. There is a world of difference between that and outlawing free speech.

Fascism, such as it exists, is not limited to the right wing, Goodann. Many liberals do not like to hear people arguing with them (Michael Moore, Susan Sarandon, etc.). One of fascism's central tenets is the suppresion of criticism of those in power. The Hollywood Left want to be in power, and they do not want criticism. So, they're just about as fascist as Jerry Falwell. Just thought I'd point that out.

Facism isn't just about not wanting to hear criticism. If that was it, almost everyone on the planet would be a facist. At least, I HOPE we aren't........are we? Now I'm all paranoid, thank you.

well you could call me a right wing nut job or a psychopath :sniper:.. i dont really care what you call me . but the fact that you can call me whatever you want is proof that america is not facsist. if you dont like the president you can say anything you want..except threaten him/her freedom of speech will always stand. and before i here any more southern bashing i want you ppl to know. the south is what keeps america from becoming fascist. northern ppl are wimps they are afraid of guns. they wont fight for anything. all they do is complain. southern ppl are the ones who get things done. thats the reason the majority of our presidents have been southern. :)

The Sedition Act made it illegal to advocate violent overthrow of the United States government. There is a world of difference between that and outlawing free speech.

It made it illegal to print anything critical of the government. That may not precisely outlaw free speech entirely, but then, the Soviet Constitution allowed the government to crack down on free speech many times simply because it stated that people could not use their freedoms of speech and assembly "to the detriment of the social revolution".

I worded that poorly. i apologize. Fascism is, basically, the use of force to acheive the Party's ends, i.e., the supression of criticism. Think about it. Under the guise of "political correctness," the Left has severely limited what you are able to say, for fear of offending some minority. have you noticed the ones who get offended are often not the minorty themself but rather some liberal activist/politician? Interesting. But I digress. What I ment was that if liberals in America gain the power that Republicans now have, they will supress free speech. That is of course not to say Republicans won't; they are just as capable. However, I do believe that the Democratic party in its present state (barring a very few exceptions) would do much worse things than Republicans, though probably domestically rather than internationally.

In many ways the USA is becoming increasingly fascist. The reason I think this is because of the extreme nationalism and militarism which are far more present in the USA than any other western nations and has been growing at an alarming rate over the last few years. The extreme patriotism and the way Americans blindly follow their government has many similarities with Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy. I'm not sure if the USA has reached full fascism yet but it is certainly moving in that direction and it may only be a matter of years until it is too late.

You're wright and that can be seen by the reaction of the ignorants that have only a US centric press. Forget reactions like the ones of New Genoa and Macrosolild, they are seen as marginal ignorants here to.

They only represent the ignorant EU/Canada aso bashing part of our people that lack the free press. A small minority. Just forget them.

the south is what keeps america from becoming fascist. northern ppl are wimps they are afraid of guns. they wont fight for anything. all they do is complain. southern ppl are the ones who get things done. thats the reason the majority of our presidents have been southern. :)

Amen, brother.

I think a better parallel to the internment camps would be something like Katyn Fields : 21,857 shot for being Poles who were captured.

And then Stalin blamed it (Katyn) on the Germans...because Communism is nice! :p

I think a better parallel to the internment camps would be something like Katyn Fields : 21,857 shot for being Poles who were captured.

But most US don't know about those killings of the Polish officers in the woods of Katyn. (Discovered by the German Army in 1943, but counterspoken by USSR propaganda).

Hat of Sir that you are aware of it.

But most US don't know about those killings of the Polish officers in the woods of Katyn. (Discovered by the German Army in 1943, but counterspoken by USSR propaganda).

Hat of Sir that you are aware of it.

What's a Hat of Sir?

You're wright and that can be seen by the reaction of the ignorants that have only a US centric press. Forget reactions like the ones of New Genoa and Macrosolild, they are seen as marginal ignorants here to.

They only represent the ignorant EU/Canada aso bashing part of our people that lack the free press. A small minority. Just forget them, they are don't desserve your attention.

Pray tell, how am I ignorant?

I think a better parallel to the internment camps would be something like Katyn Fields : 21,857 shot for being Poles who were captured.

I suppose we might as well talk about all the native Americans that were killed by the US, too.

i have a random qeustion......what the hell is this :gundge: ????

I suppose we might as well talk about all the native Americans that were killed by the US, too.

And the native-Americans killed by English colonists as well. and the spanish.

You don't fall over and lament the obvious fall of America into the hands of the corporate elite. Duh.

You and I really need to just realize that the Western European way of thinking is vastly superior to anything else, regardless of what our own experiences and ideas might teach us.

Pray tell, how am I ignorant?

Guess you gave the prove by your posts. He only says that you are a marginal extremist like most saw here.

Just inform yourself a bit more. Stop reading dumbsville gazette and watch some free media abroad might help ya.

My 2 cents.

And the native-Americans killed by English colonists as well. and the spanish.

I think that just helps me, considering I'm trying to show that it's not just a few countries that have been guilty of crimes, but all. I'm not trying to say that the Soviets were right in what that did, just that the Americans weren't exactly saints, either.

And the native-Americans killed by English colonists as well. and the spanish.

don't forget the portugese and french. Or the slaves torn from their homes in Africa by the Spanish and Portugese.

Guess you gave the prove by your posts. He only says that you are a marginal extremist like most saw here.

Just inform yourself a bit more. Stop reading dumbsville gazette ans watching some free media abroad might help ya.

My 2 cents.

Hey thanks for the flame! It really shows the intellect and wit radiating from your infalliability!

Saying the US is no where near fascism is not extremist. But then again, I must be a stupid backwater hick if I don't agree with you. THAT'S freedom of thought for ya.

what i find amusing here is how ppl are bringing up things america has done in the past....if you want to get into the past....britain and spain are the 2 most fascist countries of all time...britian was counstantly oppressing and torturing scots and irish for no reason other then they were scots and irish... they raped their women (sounds like japan attacking china in ww2) and they killed the men and burned the towns for no reason... and spain they are just as bad. they tried to destroy some of the most remarkable civilizations of all time (aztecs mayans etc.) for gold that they DIDNT NEED! they were already rediculously rich..and england just has recently (in the past century) started handing their "colonies" back to those ppl even though england claims to be democracy they were tyrants over their colonies who had no say in anything they did. then america came along and kicked their asses. i think its amusing how the most powerful country in the world at the time got their assses kicked by a bunch of hillbillies with no uniforms and just hunting rifles dont you? they called americans "inferior" until they got beat now they attack us by blaming everything on us. even to this day. i think ignorance flows much more widly in europe then it does in america by far

Is America fascist:
The people? No.
The country? No.
The government nature? No.
The people in government? Yes.

Give it time and the group at the bottom will impose itself on the group above it, cue domino-effect ad infinitum. Sooner or later the motto of the United States government will be "Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam."

I apologise if my post is the stepping stone towards the cue for the "lizard-people are ruling the world" Ickites. If that's already happened, then I apologise for failing to read the thread and subjecting you to this disclaimer.

what i find amusing here is how ppl are bringing up things america has done in the past....if you want to get into the past....britain and spain are the 2 most fascist countries of all time...britian was counstantly oppressing and torturing scots and irish for no reason other then they were scots and irish... they raped their women (sounds like japan attacking china in ww2) and they killed the men and burned the towns for no reason... and spain they are just as bad. they tried to destroy some of the most remarkable civilizations of all time (aztecs mayans etc.) for gold that they DIDNT NEED! they were already rediculously rich..and england just has recently (in the past century) started handing their "colonies" back to those ppl even though england claims to be democracy they were tyrants over their colonies who had no say in anything they did. then america came along and kicked their butts. i think its amusing how the most powerful country in the world at the time got their assses kicked by a bunch of hillbillies with no uniforms and just hunting rifles dont you? they called americans "inferior" until they got beat now they attack us by blaming everything on us. even to this day. i think ignorance flows much more widly in europe then it does in america by far

Is America fascist:
The people? No.
The country? No.
The government nature? No.
The people in government? Yes.

Give it time and the group at the bottom will impose itself on the group above it, cue domino-effect ad infinitum. Sooner or later the motto of the United States government will be "Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam."

I apologise if my post is the stepping stone towards the cue for the "lizard-people are ruling the world" Ickites. If that's already happened, then I apologise for failing to read the thread and subjecting you to this disclaimer.

Parts of the government is fascist. For example, the FCC and its censorship is an aspect of fascism.

I think that just helps me, considering I'm trying to show that it's not just a few countries that have been guilty of crimes, but all. I'm not trying to say that the Soviets were right in what that did, just that the Americans weren't exactly saints, either.

And I never have said that Americans are saints because we're far from it.

Is America fascist:
The people? No.
The country? No.
The government nature? No.
The people in government? Yes.

Give it time and the group at the bottom will impose itself on the group above it, cue domino-effect ad infinitum. Sooner or later the motto of the United States government will be "Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam."

I apologise if my post is the stepping stone towards the cue for the "lizard-people are ruling the world" Ickites. If that's already happened, then I apologise for failing to read the thread and subjecting you to this disclaimer.


New Genoa will not like this. It is to intelligent and to polite for the ignorants...

I wish I posted often enough to have devoted enemies like this :(

New Genoa will not like this. It is to intelligent and to polite for the ignorants...

Flamebait.

Flamebait.
Explain? :eek: Read your posts, I only see one guy flaiming here towards a lot of posters and that is you kid.


Or do you suscribe the word "ignorant"? That is your choice, the post was open for "the ignorants".

But nice to see that you endure.

Since the Bush administration was "elected" in 2000 the USA has been increasingly showing similarities with fascism. Extreme nationalism, militarism, disrespect for human rights and the religious right are all associated with fascism and are strongly present in modern America.
See this article - "The 14 points of fascism" which compares the USA with fascism:
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

You need to learn to research. The election was proven to go in favor of Bush in 2000, even after JESSE JACKSON oversaw a recount. Yes, his people did it and came to the same conclusion. Idiot.

Great. Another idiot screaming about the evil American Empire. Sometimes I wish the Soviet Union was still around so that you could see what a real evil empire looks like.

All empires are evil. That's the nature of imperialism. They seek only their own self-preservation and the advancement of their own goals through political machinations, control, and force. They purposefully crush or subdue the free will of peoples for the singular goal of service to the empire.

In the words of Abraham Lincoln:

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing Government, they can exercise their constitutional right to amend it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it."

No, I don't like where America is going. I'm not willing to accept the argument that we must trade peace and freedom for security and that because the slim majority of Americans voted for the promise of war rather than the hope of peace that there is some kind of divine mandate for the Administration to do as it pleases. If it gets bad enough, I won't be the only one to take up arms against the State. But first I will see if this inertia will dissipate on its own.

Explain? :eek: Read your posts, I only see one guy flaiming here towards a lot of posters and that is you kid.


Or do you suscribe the word "ignorant"? That is your choice, the post was open for "the ignorants".

But nice to see that you endure.

You're launching ad hominem attacks and offering no debate. But of course, any one who disagrees with you is "ignorant," right?

Idiot.

Hmm, New Gennoa's pupet is flaiming here.

It's not my puppet. Ask the mods, if you want.

Yuck, this whole thread is stupid. Our government sucks, but we aren't fascist. Bush and his pals would like for the kind of dictatorial authority that fascism would bring, but they haven't gotten around to wiping their asses with that part of the Constitution just yet. Many of our people are ignorant, (public schools) fat, (government nutrition information) apathetic, (unresponsive beuraucrats) and many more terrible things you could say. But there are just as many of us who are well informed, patriotic in the truest sense, defensive of our heritage and the founding principles of our Nation. We are't beaten yet.

And, we are not denied access to information, that was the original author's most inane, asinine, indefensible comment. We are OVERWHELMED with information. No where in the world is there a higher level of access to the internet, unlike China, France, Germany, Russia, and so many more, there is NO CENSORSHIP online here. We can get the story, IN ENGLISH, from the epicenter of any event, anywhere. There are sites where you can read Iraqi resistance fighters blog about the day's battle against "the infidels." One has to TRY to be ignorant of what is happening in the world here, and some do, no doubt. But we are better informed and have freer (or equal) access to information than anywhere else. Europe censors content it feels is "offensive" including neo-NAZI's (a group I despise, but whose rights to speak are no less important than mine) and radical Islamists and religious groups who speak out agianst homosexuality. It matters not if you agree with these ideas, because to defend their censorship is to defend government control over what ideas are acceptable. That is wrong. We don't do it here, and we are better for it.

Further, fascism entails nationalising industry, we don't do that either.
It means socialising education and healthcare, (ok, 1 for 2).
It means militarizing the society through the draft (not yet!).
It means asset seizure from the very wealthy (not unless we catch 'em with weed).
It means strict gun control (thank you 2nd Amendment!).
It means a lot of other things that we don't do either.

The USA is a lot of things, but pure evil, it ain't. We happen to be at the top of the heap, but we wont be here for ever. Some day some other nation will arise, it will be innocent of all the socialist clap trap that weighs our economy down, and it will not have the kind of moral rot that allows a coddled elite to bite the very hand that feeds it (our robust economy) while remaining respectable in intellectual circles (Noam Chomsky, the hypocrite). They will make us their bitches. But until then, we will continue to draw the awe and ire of the world, even our own citizens.

Yuck, this whole thread is stupid. Our government sucks, but we aren't fascist. Bush and his pals would like for the kind of dictatorial authority that fascism would bring, but they haven't gotten around to wiping their asses with that part of the Constitution just yet. Many of our people are ignorant, (public schools) fat, (government nutrition information) apathetic, (unresponsive beuraucrats) and many more terrible things you could say. But there are just as many of us who are well informed, patriotic in the truest sense, defensive of our heritage and the founding principles of our Nation. We are't beaten yet.

And, we are not denied access to information, that was the original author's most inane, asinine, indefensible comment. We are OVERWHELMED with information. No where in the world is there a higher level of access to the internet, unlike China, France, Germany, Russia, and so many more, there is NO CENSORSHIP online here. We can get the story, IN ENGLISH, from the epicenter of any event, anywhere. There are sites where you can read Iraqi resistance fighters blog about the day's battle against "the infidels." One has to TRY to be ignorant of what is happening in the world here, and some do, no doubt. But we are better informed and have freer (or equal) access to information than anywhere else. Europe censors content it feels is "offensive" including neo-NAZI's (a group I despise, but whose rights to speak are no less important than mine) and radical Islamists and religious groups who speak out agianst homosexuality. It matters not if you agree with these ideas, because to defend their censorship is to defend government control over what ideas are acceptable. That is wrong. We don't do it here, and we are better for it.

Further, fascism entails nationalising industry, we don't do that either.
It means socialising education and healthcare, (ok, 1 for 2).
It means militarizing the society through the draft (not yet!).
It means asset seizure from the very wealthy (not unless we catch 'em with weed).
It means strict gun control (thank you 2nd Amendment!).
It means a lot of other things that we don't do either.

The USA is a lot of things, but pure evil, it ain't. We happen to be at the top of the heap, but we wont be here for ever. Some day some other nation will arise, it will be innocent of all the socialist clap trap that weighs our economy down, and it will not have the kind of moral rot that allows a coddled elite to bite the very hand that feeds it (our robust economy) while remaining respectable in intellectual circles (Noam Chomsky, the hypocrite). They will make us their bitches. But until then, we will continue to draw the awe and ire of the world, even our own citizens.

My opinions exactly. We fuck up alot on a regular basis, but fascist is something we aren't.

How do you know what most people at the time in the USSR did? It didn't matter what most people thought, but rather at the time (Stalin's time), it only usually mattered what he thought, and if you disagreed you were usually sent east or shot.
he was the glorious leader of the revolution, to think counter to his thoughts was to be a counter revolutionary, a traitor to mother russia and the working class. those who went to the gulags were granted a chance at rehabilitation, those who were shot earned their traitors deaths.

Crimes such as - speaking ill of those in power, practicing any form of religion, publishing articles critical of the government ...

exactly, the japanese were not guilty of subversion or sedition.

What are you, retarded? Michael Moore, John Stewart, and an assortment of celebrities have gotten away with slamming the government.
but only so far, just a little bit of the old loyal opposition to perfect the illusion of democracy.

Actually, in the USSR laws were based on the decisions of the Politburo and were enforced by first the Cheka, then the NKVD, then the KGB. The people had no say.
the politburo was the revolutionary manifestation of the will of the proletariat, the state was the people filtered through the ideology of proletarian revolution and the crucible of scientific socialism.

I can't believe that someone is seriously defending Stalin. If you like Stalin, you ain't a communist. He had Trotsky killed 'cause he pointed out where Stalin was perverting every Marxist ideal. You can't kill people for disagreeing if you want to be called a democracy (as many Soviet Republics were) or a "People's Republic." WTF!?! Idiot, if the people are only allowed to have ONE opinion (or DIE), the one that Stalin has, how can they have any power? Communism is terrible on it's own merits, but Stalinism is the very cold, black, hard, heart of evil, the ebodiment of all that decent people fear and resist. Tyrrany, unprovoked violence, repression of descent, absolute power in the hands of one megalomaniac with nothing but paranoid hostility on his mind, and no solution to any problem that didn't involve murder on a grand scale. The very worst humanity has ever seen, far worse even than Hitler. You sir, should take your revisionist ass to North Korea and enjoy the famine, whilst leaving free people to their business.

Since the Bush administration was "elected" in 2000 the USA has been increasingly showing similarities with fascism. Extreme nationalism, militarism, disrespect for human rights and the religious right are all associated with fascism and are strongly present in modern America.
See this article - "The 14 points of fascism" which compares the USA with fascism:
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

Since nobody has bothered, here are the 14 points (and my comentary):

1.) Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2.) Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3.) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4.) Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5.) Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6.) Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7.) Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8.) Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9.) Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10.) Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11.) Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12.) Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations

13.) Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.



1.) Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia.

That has always been common in the US. However, it is not in and of itself a sign the US is fascist. There is a matter of degree. The US does not do so to the same degree as seen in fascist countries.

Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Same as above.

Point 1 - borderline (at best).

2.) Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need."

Nope.

The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Let's see: protests against the Guantanamo incarcerations and the Patrot act, the FBI and CIA ("secret police") have both said the military has gone too far in interrogations, the SCOUS is shooting down much of what the POTUS is trying to do, etc., etc.

Point 2 - no.

3.) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Key-word: perceived.

Point 3 - no.

4.) Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected.

No, no, and no.

Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

No more so than in any country.

Point 3 - no.

5.) Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated.

No.

Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid.

No.

Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

Split.

Point 5 - barely borderline.

6.) Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives.

No.

Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Like not showing the military commiting warcrimes on TV?
No.

Point 6 - no.

7.) Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Point 7 - yes.

8.) Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion.

Borderline.

Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

Yes.

Point 8 - borderline yes.

9.) Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

No. (And all the socialist rhetoric in the world won't change that.)

Point 9 - no

10.) Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

LOL!

Point 10 - no.

11.) Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia.

No.

It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested.

No.

Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

No.

Point 11 - no.

12.) Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws.

No.

The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism.

No.

There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

No.

Point 12 - no.

13.) Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.

Borderline. The current US regime does seem to be evidencing some cronyism and corruption, but not to the degree of fascist states.

It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

No.

Point 13 - no.

14. Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham.

No.

Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media.

No.

Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

No.

Point 14 - no.

9 "no"s, 3 "borderlines". That hardlty meets the criteria given.

Since the Bush administration was "elected" in 2000 the USA has been increasingly showing similarities with fascism. Extreme nationalism, militarism, disrespect for human rights and the religious right are all associated with fascism and are strongly present in modern America.
See this article - "The 14 points of fascism" which compares the USA with fascism:
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

I like to click these for a good laugh...

=D

(And just especially for you Red Guard Revisionists: the same applied to the USSR.)


1.) Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

Yes.

2.) Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

Yes.

3.) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

Borderline.

4.) Supremacy of the Military

Yes.

5.) Rampant Sexism

Bordeline.

6.) Controlled Mass Media

Yes.

7.) Obsession with National Security

Yes.

8.) Religion and Government are Intertwined

No.

9.) Corporate Power is Protected

No.

10.) Labor Power is Suppressed

Like the great support given to Solidarity?
Yes.


11.) Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

No.

12.) Obsession with Crime and Punishment

Yes.

13.) Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

Yes. Well known and documented.

14. Fraudulent Elections

Yes.

9 "yes", 2 "borderline", 3 "no". USSR comes out more fascist than the US.

I can't believe that someone is seriously defending Stalin. If you like Stalin, you ain't a communist. He had Trotsky killed 'cause he pointed out where Stalin was perverting every Marxist ideal. You can't kill people for disagreeing if you want to be called a democracy (as many Soviet Republics were) or a "People's Republic." WTF!?! Idiot, if the people are only allowed to have ONE opinion (or DIE), the one that Stalin has, how can they have any power? Communism is terrible on it's own merits, but Stalinism is the very cold, black, hard, heart of evil, the ebodiment of all that decent people fear and resist. Tyrrany, unprovoked violence, repression of descent, absolute power in the hands of one megalomaniac with nothing but paranoid hostility on his mind, and no solution to any problem that didn't involve murder on a grand scale. The very worst humanity has ever seen, far worse even than Hitler. You sir, should take your revisionist ass to North Korea and enjoy the famine, whilst leaving free people to their business.
trotsky's ultraleftist rhetoric was a front for his counter revolutionary agenda, an ice pick threw the brain was a kindness, only merited because of his brief competent service in leadership in the red army. perhaps comrade lenin could have kept trotsky's intellectual counter revolutionary dilitantism in check, but after his death comrade stalin had better things to do than hold bronstein's hand and gently keep him on the true path.

the unleashed power is a very terrible thing for the capitalist fat cats and their toadies to behold, and proletarian justice can be hard and cruel, but it is all necessary for the true liberation of all mankind. north korea has been abandonned by all its strong allies, all consumed by the very counter revolutionary rot which stalin tried so hard to root out. perhaps this brave state is doomed to be crushed by the evil of the world but i wouldn't count her, or cuba out just yet my parasitic capitalist boardmate.

I see a lot of threads that could have
good public polls have no polls at all.

There is no way Red Guard that you can sit and tell anyone that Stalin starting a genocide of 20million people plus the slaughtering of the Poles can in any way be tolerated or even accepted. The people of the USSR did not like the USSR, and in fact were suppressed and killed and poorer perhaps more then any other major empire of all time.

And Daistallia, good job there.

There is no way Red Guard that you can sit and tell anyone that Stalin starting a genocide of 20million people plus the slaughtering of the Poles can in any way be tolerated or even accepted. The people of the USSR did not like the USSR, and in fact were suppressed and killed and poorer perhaps more then any other major empire of all time.

And Daistallia, good job there.
genocide, stalin never attempted genocide. the period of time during the collectivization was very hard. the counter revolutionary sabotuers and capitalist agents were always attacking the fledgling soviet state. this caused famines and killed many valiant comrades. then to add insult to injury the capitalist hack historians blame comrade stalin for the bloody handed acts of their own ideological historical allies and accuse him of genocide. no my friend stalin did not kill those 20 million the capitalist scum you worship did, and some day their will be a reckoning for their innocent blood.

the only poles killed by the soviets were counter revolutionaries and nazi colaborators.

After reading the points I must admit that several can make America look Fascist, but who made these points? Were they around before or after WWII? I can also find points that make America look like a dictatorship and North Korea look like a direct democracy with a town hall format for governing the populace, I can twist the facts to make Germany look like the victim of WWII whose sovereignty was repeatedly violated and they were merely venting thousands of years of frustrations against those who had wronged them. I can find evidence to show that Saddam was actually a puppet of the Jews to try and pit Muslim vs. Muslim so they could not attack Israel.

Of course America is gonna appear Fascist, let's see, Nationalism is always pretty high in America, this very thread proves it, someone disses us we fire back, Democrats will defend Republicans when it is a Frenchman pointing their fingers, most countries are the same, if I made a post labeled "F*ck Englan, F*ck the Queen, F*ck you you commie bastards!" I can guarantee all the englishmen on here would be pissed, nationalism, they could be called fascist too.

When it comes to religion it is very, very easy for America to appear Fascist, especially today, with Bush being very religious, trying to ban abortion, and gay marriage (good riddance to both of them I say.) and not hiding the fact that he is very religious while claiming that God and his Wife turned his life around. Many American's are happy about this, hell many are estatic(sp?), personally, I don't go to church much but I think that a little more religion in American society would be a good thing, I have not been baptised but blesphemy to me is the greatest sin of them all. (Muslims, Christians, and Jews all worship the same god so don't try and twist my words into blasting Judaism or Islam.) I joined the Army to fight for God and Country and I disagree with some teachings of the Christian church but do believe that their is something greater than man, and that thing is God. And how about this religion issue? The Roman Catholic Church is the largest sect in the US but we have only had ONE Catholic President, Kennedy.

Those are the two that I think would most contribue to making America look fascist, if you ever watched the news in America you would know that with the exception of FOX the government has little control over the media.

genocide, stalin never attempted genocide. the period of time during the collectivization was very hard. the counter revolutionary sabotuers and capitalist agents were always attacking the fledgling soviet state. this caused famines and killed many valiant comrades. then to add insult to injury the capitalist hack historians blame comrade stalin for the bloody handed acts of their own ideological historical allies and accuse him of genocide. no my friend stalin did not kill those 20 million the capitalist scum you worship did, and some day their will be a reckoning for their innocent blood.

Umm, Russia did have Pogroms long before Germany, that is stretching it a little.

the only poles killed by the soviets were counter revolutionaries and nazi colaborators.

You are right, but you forgot to mention that when the poles in Warsaw rebelled against the Germans the Russians let them get slaughtered, essentialling killing while stopping their advance within sight of Warsaw, waiting for the Germans to kill of the resistance fighters, something the Russians had planned to do, and then continuing their advance, so while they didn't fire a shot they did kill the poles who were trying to help them out.

And of course, counter-revolutionaries being a vague term meaning anybody who didn't like being occupied by the Soviets, disapproved of the terribly flawed Stalinist-Communism, or just wanted to live their own lives without interference by outside nations. Now this is where you give the speach about Finland and Poland being illigitimate nations whose existance is void and they should still be part of Russia, well Russia bailed on them in 1917 by signing the Brest-Livosk Treaty(sp?) with Germany, they gave up those lands so they had to rights to them.

NO!
Fascism is an authoritarian state based on the ruling of a "superior race". Added bonuses include:
-Genocidal campaigns against "inferior races"
-Repeated and significant human rights abuses of the worst kind
-Complete and violent elimination of opposition

BUSH IS NOT A FASCIST! And this is coming from a lifelong Democrat!

Since the Bush administration was "elected" in 2000 the USA has been increasingly showing similarities with fascism. Extreme nationalism, militarism, disrespect for human rights and the religious right are all associated with fascism and are strongly present in modern America.

Bush does display those characteristics, but on a MUCH smaller scale. I could play the same game and prove that Charles Kennedy is a socialist! Socialists oppose the flat tax, care about the environment, opposed the Iraq war, and want expanded health coverage. Charles Kennedy feels the same way, so he MUST (according to your argument) be a socialist!

So, are you saying that it is OK for Americans to do it, but not for anyone else to?


When did he say that?

And Daistallia, good job there.

Thanks. And interestingly enough, nobody is contesting it...

By telling me I should believe certain things and only allowing the media to show what they approve, the government is becoming a bit facist.

The US is authoritarian, but it definate isn't fascist, at least not yet. While it has a lot of trends in the direction of fascism, there are some key elements missing. For one thing, fascists typically take a much harder stance on racial minorities and socialists than the US has been taking so far, though it has been cracking down on Muslims, which may grow into genocide of some sort.

Every nation is fascist to some degree, so I answered maybe.

of course they are. there's not much diffecence between him and hitler, except for that hitler were smarter.

hitler were smarter.

Dearie me, "Hitler were smarter than Bush!" I'm sorry, but that small sequence of words debunks your whole debate.

Dearie me, "Hitler were smarter than Bush!" I'm sorry, but that small sequence of words debunks your whole debate.
Lol, it does!

Far from it.
But moving closer. It's disturbing how nationalistic some Americans are becoming.

I couldn't agree with any of that article. For example: How is nationilism a part of facism? I don't think any of the even SEMI-major nations are non nationalistic overall...
There's a difference between patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism is beautiful and nationalism is ugly.

In the US, no one is forcing anybody to be patriotic.
Isn't the Pledge of Allegiance mandatory?

Japanese internment camps were a horrible time in AMerican history. Gulags were much worse.
Not only were gulags worse, but they existed for many decades longer than the Japanese internment camps in America.

That Red Guard guy is the moral equivalent of a neo-NAZI Holocaust denier, why is everyone here giving him a pass? Very few have objected to his absurd rhetoric...although I guess it wouldn't do much good, would it. That kind of immunity to reality has to be cultivated over the course of years, it must be a mental illness or the result of some brutality or trauma. I suppose pity is the appropriate response. Poor, poor stupid guy. I hope he come to terms with his issues before he has the chance to hurt himself or others. He probably has delusions of participating in some sort of brave revolutionary struggle...meanwhile his beloved proletariat would probably kick the shit out of him if he made those kind of commie noises in almost any bar in the USA.

Isn't the Pledge of Allegiance mandatory?

Technically, but no one really cares if you don't say it. Unless you mention "under God." In which the ACLU gets to decide for you what you want to say.

The pledge of allegience, written by a socialist minister in the 19th century, without the mention of god, which was added by McCarthy-ites in the 50's, is not now, nor has it ever been, a communist...er, I mean mandatory. i repeat, never. My brother refused to say it in school, (good kid that one) and after reminding the school officials of the First Amendment, he has never been asked to do it again.

The pledge of allegience, written by a socialist minister in the 19th century, without the mention of god, which was added by McCarthy-ites in the 50's, is not now, nor has it ever been, a communist...er, I mean mandatory. i repeat, never. My brother refused to say it in school, (good kid that one) and after reminding the school officials of the First Amendment, he has never been asked to do it again.
but i'm sure his name is now on the fbi's watch lists and he will be undoubtedly rounded up when the crack down comes...

by the way, has he tried to fly antwhere lately.

That Red Guard guy is the moral equivalent of a neo-NAZI Holocaust denier, why is everyone here giving him a pass? Very few have objected to his absurd rhetoric...although I guess it wouldn't do much good, would it. That kind of immunity to reality has to be cultivated over the course of years, it must be a mental illness or the result of some brutality or trauma. I suppose pity is the appropriate response. Poor, poor stupid guy. I hope he come to terms with his issues before he has the chance to hurt himself or others. He probably has delusions of participating in some sort of brave revolutionary struggle...meanwhile his beloved proletariat would probably kick the shit out of him if he made those kind of commie noises in almost any bar in the USA.
ah yes the last resort of the intellectually incompetent and the politically defeated, accuse your enemies of being nazis. the USA is an evil empire, but its not fascist. i am a hardline communist who realizes you need to break a few eggs to make an omlette, but that doesn't make me a neo nazi. people need to us a little intellectual rigor in their political rhetoric and not just resort to petty cliches when they disagree with someones position.

ah yes the last resort of the intellectually incompetent and the politically defeated, accuse your enemies of being nazis. the USA is an evil empire, but its not fascist. i am a hardline communist who realizes you need to break a few eggs to make an omlette, but that doesn't make me a neo nazi. people need to us a little intellectual rigor in their political rhetoric and not just resort to petty cliches when they disagree with someones position.
Maybe 15 million eggs?

The USSR was not an "evil" empire. Thats just what "capitalists" would like you to think.
The USSR was a group of nations who believed in the ideals of communism. Communism is not evil.

Tell that to the millions killed, you idiot.

I suppose the Japanese internment camps were, too.

Yes we brutually murdered the Japanese Americans, just like the Soviets did to all the people in the Gulags. You are a moron as well.

Red Guard Revisionists you are a disgusting human being.

Yes we brutually murdered the Japanese Americans, just like the Soviets did to all the people in the Gulags. You are a moron as well.
can't we just all agree to be morons and have peace?

Tell that to the millions killed, you idiot.
Estimates range from 25 million to 40 million. Those are not small numbers!

can't we just all agree to be morons and have peace?

Not if someone makes light of murders and then has the nerve to use it as an analogy for a much lesser evil on the scale of things.

Red Guard Wingnut:
I didn't call you a NAZI, you don't read very well, do you...I said you were the moral equivalent, because history shows us that Stalin's Soviet Union was even more evil that Hitler's Germany, and to deny it is to be as bad as those who deny Hitler's Holocaust against the Jews, gays, gypsies and others. Hardline communists should despise Stalin, since he was not so much a communist as a ruthles dictator, who did more to sully the reputation of communism than anyone in history, but give Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung and his boy Kim Jong Il, Chairman Mao, and Ho Chi Min some credit, they murdered, oppressed and impoverished as many people as they could. The Stalinist government slaughtered workers wholesale through purges, famines, pogroms, re-education and so on while keeping a rich elite (himself and his cronies) immune from the day to day hardships that the badly run Soviet economy (that's redundant) forced upon all the proletariat. THey often had to resort to the black market to get basic foodstuffs, since Stalin was busy giving anything good to his friends and relatives that he could steal from those who did the hard work of creating it, while they of course recieved almost nothing in return for their work. Ask someone who lived through it, there a few still alive. Ask anyone who escaped China, North Korea, Russia (pre 1989) or any other communist regime, they'll tell you that it ain't on omlet you're making, but a shit sandwich with a side of human suffering, heavy on the pointless bloodshed.

BTW-you know why the commies always kill the intelectuals first? Because smart folks see that communism is a lie, so they have to be silenced in order to allow the workers to be duped into signing their lives away. You must not be very smart, but I'll give you credit for the hard work required to get your head that far up your ass.

Yes we brutually murdered the Japanese Americans, just like the Soviets did to all the people in the Gulags. You are a moron as well.

-.- what are u talking about.. we didn't murder them ... or they would have been CONCENTRATION camps.. not internment camps...

-.- what are u talking about.. we didn't murder them ... or they would have been CONCENTRATION camps.. not internment camps...

It was sacrasm, I was establishing the same point as you.

Is United States Facist.. how obsurd.. all of you who belive it is should be SO LUCKY to have a hitler like BUSH.. To give millions yearly to international crisis's to be the largest doner of food for the starving... to engage in militiary actions which in no way concerned us (Bosnia)... to use our forces who make up most of the UN peace keeping operations world wide... You people dont know facism.. or we'd crush everyone not strong enough to face us.. (France would probably be top that list, seeing how they've lost their position of dominace in the world scene for the last 100 years)..

Maybe 15 million eggs?
well so got used to make omlettes, some got dropped by accident and quite a few were stolen by weasels.

Red Guard Wingnut:
I didn't call you a NAZI, you don't read very well, do you...I said you were the moral equivalent, because history shows us that Stalin's Soviet Union was even more evil that Hitler's Germany, and to deny it is to be as bad as those who deny Hitler's Holocaust against the Jews, gays, gypsies and others. Hardline communists should despise Stalin, since he was not so much a communist as a ruthles dictator, who did more to sully the reputation of communism than anyone in history, but give Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung and his boy Kim Jong Il, Chairman Mao, and Ho Chi Min some credit, they murdered, oppressed and impoverished as many people as they could. The Stalinist government slaughtered workers wholesale through purges, famines, pogroms, re-education and so on while keeping a rich elite (himself and his cronies) immune from the day to day hardships that the badly run Soviet economy (that's redundant) forced upon all the proletariat. THey often had to resort to the black market to get basic foodstuffs, since Stalin was busy giving anything good to his friends and relatives that he could steal from those who did the hard work of creating it, while they of course recieved almost nothing in return for their work. Ask someone who lived through it, there a few still alive. Ask anyone who escaped China, North Korea, Russia (pre 1989) or any other communist regime, they'll tell you that it ain't on omlet you're making, but a shit sandwich with a side of human suffering, heavy on the pointless bloodshed.

BTW-you know why the commies always kill the intelectuals first? Because smart folks see that communism is a lie, so they have to be silenced in order to allow the workers to be duped into signing their lives away. You must not be very smart, but I'll give you credit for the hard work required to get your head that far up your ass.


reactionary propaganda and a rather juvenile reading of animal farm do not a political analysis make.

Red Guard Revisionists you are a disgusting human being.

hey tamberine, ya got a little string of drool hanging out of the corner of your mouth. i know you're all worked up, but it'll just take a sec. to wipe that bad boy off...

there ya go, you got it little fella.

Is United States Facist.. how obsurd.. all of you who belive it is should be SO LUCKY to have a hitler like BUSH.. To give millions yearly to international crisis's to be the largest doner of food for the starving... to engage in militiary actions which in no way concerned us (Bosnia)... to use our forces who make up most of the UN peace keeping operations world wide... You people dont know facism.. or we'd crush everyone not strong enough to face us.. (France would probably be top that list, seeing how they've lost their position of dominace in the world scene for the last 100 years)..
man i like you, you're a worse speller than me...
down with the spelling nazis
hooray for the free form spelling rebels!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Estimates range from 25 million to 40 million. Those are not small numbers!
estimates by capitalist propagandists and hacks.

there were certainly mistakes made in management of the economy in the 20s and 30s. there were famines and those were tragic, but that is not murder, any more than queen victoria murdered several million irish in the potato famine.

yes men perished in the gulags, but the were doing there share to built the soviet union and industrialize the soviet far east. those deaths were accidents and also more famine, still not murder. the few thousand men actually executed under stalin's regime were traitors, foreign paid spys and counter revolutionaries along with some common criminals of the worst sort(a group americans take prisde in executing themselves).

Is the United States facist?

No, but we try real hard. :p

I voted maybe. I'm worried about it to be sure, and your facts are quite... disturbing.
Just because we haven't put people in death camps yet doesn't mean that the U.S. is automatically exempt from a fascist label. The real scary thing is that most Americans believe that the U.S. is the freest nation on earth, and that provides an incredible amount of cover for a would-be dictator to usurp what freedoms we have.

is this threat a fucking joke? first off, it is started with a paraphrased quote from an anti-Bush source (Old America), and it has no information to back up its claim.

I hope people like this thread creator are not allowed to reproduce.

the US is far too economically right wing to be fascist. fascism maintained very tight controls on wages and corperate profits. now socially and politically the US is verging toward moderate authoritarianism, but still to a far lesser level than even the most democratic of third world nations.

I'm not gonna touch the main argument here in this thread but be careful of the generalizations your making. Just because a nation is considered "third world" does not mean its corrupt and undemocratic. You may not be implying this but thats the way it comes across.

I'm not gonna touch the main argument here in this thread but be careful of the generalizations your making. Just because a nation is considered "third world" does not mean its corrupt and undemocratic. You may not be implying this but thats the way it comes across.

well india is fairly democratic as are some latin american countries, but i would challenge you to name one third world nation that doesn't have rampant corruption.

is this threat a fucking joke? first off, it is started with a paraphrased quote from an anti-Bush source (Old America), and it has no information to back up its claim.

I hope people like this thread creator are not allowed to reproduce.
well you would know a thing or two about nazis na, some if you say he aint, i guess he's not.

Isn't the Pledge of Allegiance mandatory?

Actually no, it's not. You have a choice to say it or not.