NationStates Jolt Archive

The USA is so far giving 35 million dollars in aid to the countries affected by the tsunamis in Asia, more than any other country, including France, which has so far only pledged, count'em, 136,000 dollars. The US has been documented to have the largest private giving of any country in the world. Bill Gates alone has given more than most European countries to help the African continent. The US has given untold tons of shipments of food to countries around the world, its C130's and Orions were first on the scene to scope out the extent of the damage, yet the US is stingy, according to Jan Eglen of the UN. The UN has so far not contributed ANY money, and has no one on the ground for this disaster.

F*** the UN. They're a bunch of worthless bastards. They'd much rather see the money going into their own pockets than to those who need it.

I had no idea America was being accused of stinginess.

F*** the UN. They're a bunch of worthless bastards. They'd much rather see the money going into their own pockets than to those who need it.
True. Oil for Food into Kofi Annan's son's pockets while Iraqis starved, endless debate while Rwandan genocide proceeded at an appalling rate, still done nothing to stop the slaughter in Somalia except threatening to consider sanctions that they never enforce anyway . . . shall I go on?

The USA is so far giving 35 million dollars in aid to the countries affected by the tsunamis in Asia, more than any other country, including France, which has so far only pledged, count'em, 136,000 dollars. The US has been documented to have the largest private giving of any country in the world. Bill Gates alone has given more than most European countries to help the African continent. The US has given untold tons of shipments of food to countries around the world, its C130's and Orions were first on the scene to scope out the extent of the damage, yet the US is stingy, according to Jan Eglen of the UN. The UN has so far not contributed ANY money, and has no one on the ground for this disaster.

Lots of people would like to believe that the US is omnipotent and without economic bounds, but that simply isn't the case. Therefore, every time we choose not to throw oogles of money at something, the US is instantly considered "stingy."

Lots of people would like to believe that the US is omnipotent and without economic bounds, but that simply isn't the case. Therefore, every time we choose not to throw oogles of money at something, the US is instantly considered "stingy."
It's like giving a poor person 100,000 dollars, and having them complain that you should have given them more because you are, after all, a billionaire. Talk about ungrateful!!! The UN wouldn't be in business at all were it not for the US, the free rent in NY.

True. Oil for Food into Kofi Annan's son's pockets while Iraqis starved, endless debate while Rwandan genocide proceeded at an appalling rate, still done nothing to stop the slaughter in Somalia except threatening to consider sanctions that they never enforce anyway . . . shall I go on?
Oooh, you beat me to oil-for-food. But yeah, the UN can't do jack squat

Let's just try to remember that every dollar the US gives away at this point is money we don't actually have. Individual citizens are one thing - Bill Gates giving money does not equate to the US giving money - but I guarantee you that every dime the US gives to help the tragedy over there will be asked for back with interest. Since Indonesia is primarily a Muslim country, I imagine that money will be asked for back with favors and attempted subjugation.

I may be wrong ... but when it comes to political predictions, I have a 92% accuracy rate.

I notice the leftists are staying away from this thread . . . I wonder why????

Let's just try to remember that every dollar the US gives away at this point is money we don't actually have. Individual citizens are one thing - Bill Gates giving money does not equate to the US giving money - but I guarantee you that every dime the US gives to help the tragedy over there will be asked for back with interest. Since Indonesia is primarily a Muslim country, I imagine that money will be asked for back with favors and attempted subjugation.

I may be wrong ... but when it comes to political predictions, I have a 92% accuracy rate.
yeah, we'd ask for it back, but not all at once or anything. pretty much every country in the world owes us money, if they were to pay off the interest of their debt to us, our debt would be nearly gone!

the US gives money to every country that needs it. we are the most charritable country in the world, no question about it. calling us stingy is ridiculous.

Let's just try to remember that every dollar the US gives away at this point is money we don't actually have. Individual citizens are one thing - Bill Gates giving money does not equate to the US giving money - but I guarantee you that every dime the US gives to help the tragedy over there will be asked for back with interest. Since Indonesia is primarily a Muslim country, I imagine that money will be asked for back with favors and attempted subjugation.

I may be wrong ... but when it comes to political predictions, I have a 92% accuracy rate.
Yes, all the US is interested in is oil for its greedy corporations, such as (dare I mention the name) HALLIBURTON! And you know we just love to conquer nations and subjugate them under our tyrannical rule, just like we did in WW1, WW2, Korea, Kuwait. And you know that we will stay in Iraq, rape their women, kill their children, and steal all their oil. {SARCASM}.

Yes, all the US is interested in is oil for its greedy corporations, such as (dare I mention the name) HALLIBURTON! And you know we just love to conquer nations and subjugate them under our tyrannical rule, just like we did in WW1, WW2, Korea, Kuwait. And you know that we will stay in Iraq, rape their women, kill their children, and steal all their oil. {SARCASM}.
just making sure, that was ALL sarcasm, right?

Where are you getting $35 million from? As of this morning, when the UN rep made his statement, it was $15 million, less than half of what the adminstration is spending on the coronation of King George the Lesser, even before we get to security costs. I'd like to see an update on the number.

And don't even bring up oil-for-food. Nothing's been proven yet, and the accusations started with that paragon of virtue, Ahmed Chalabi. When you've got something more than that, then we can talk.

just making sure, that was ALL sarcasm, right?
You betcha.

Yes, all the US is interested in is oil for its greedy corporations, such as (dare I mention the name) HALLIBURTON! And you know we just love to conquer nations and subjugate them under our tyrannical rule, just like we did in WW1, WW2, Korea, Kuwait. And you know that we will stay in Iraq, rape their women, kill their children, and steal all their oil. {SARCASM}.

Way to read my post. I didn't say anything about oil. I absolutely guarantee you, though, that this little "favor" will be called back into question when the US needs a few Muslim dissidents to make examples of on national television. We also tend to make every effort to ensure that every other nation on the planet it just like us. Try reading a history book now and then.

Cute, though, that right after my(read: most leftist person on this forum) post is your post saying "I notice the leftists are staying away from this thread".

You were just born wrong, bubba. Now go back to sleep.

Ok, I'll ask this again: who accused America of being stingy? Maybe I'm not keeping up to date with current events...

Where are you getting $35 million from? As of this morning, when the UN rep made his statement, it was $15 million, less than half of what the adminstration is spending on the coronation of King George the Lesser, even before we get to security costs. I'd like to see an update on the number.

And don't even bring up oil-for-food. Nothing's been proven yet, and the accusations started with that paragon of virtue, Ahmed Chalabi. When you've got something more than that, then we can talk.
Got it off the newscasts this evening. As we evaluate further, more money is going in the till, 20 million was added today. There are heaps of evidence, from US Congressional investigations as well as UN internal investigations, that were basically done under duress from public pressure.

The USA is so far giving 35 million dollars in aid to the countries affected by the tsunamis in Asia, more than any other country
This higlights a global trend towards stinginess. Know why? Because 35 million dollars to help countries suffering from a 9-magnitude earthquake is NOTHING!!!!!

Ok, I'll ask this again: who accused America of being stingy?

From what I can tell, nobody. But, hey, even making up stuff to bitch about can be fun.

Ok, I'll ask this again: who accused America of being stingy? Maybe I'm not keeping up to date with current events...
Stingy USA (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,142761,00.html)

Where are you getting $35 million from? As of this morning, when the UN rep made his statement, it was $15 million, less than half of what the adminstration is spending on the coronation of King George the Lesser, even before we get to security costs. I'd like to see an update on the number.

And don't even bring up oil-for-food. Nothing's been proven yet, and the accusations started with that paragon of virtue, Ahmed Chalabi. When you've got something more than that, then we can talk.

I won't be at all surprised when it is proven. I mean, c'mon, this is the UN we're talking about.

From what I can tell, nobody. But, hey, even making up stuff to bitch about can be fun.
Not making anything up. Heard it on NPR, saw it on FOX News, it is here on the Fox News website: Stingy USA (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,142761,00.html)

Ok, I'll ask this again: who accused America of being stingy? Maybe I'm not keeping up to date with current events...
I think the entire WORLD is being stingy!!! The US just donated less than a quarter per person affected by the tsunamis!!!

This higlights a global trend towards stinginess. Know why? Because 35 million dollars to help countries suffering from a 9-magnitude earthquake is NOTHING!!!!!
Really? And how much have you sent?

From what I can tell, nobody. But, hey, even making up stuff to bitch about can be fun.
actually, some guy from the UN called the US stingy, but he's taking it back now, because he knows he was wrong. i saw it on msnbc this morning.

I think the entire WORLD is being stingy!!! The US just donated less than a quarter per person affected by the tsunamis!!!
That is one quarter per person more than France, your paragon of leftist virtue, who has so far promised 136,000.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041228-122330-7268r.htm

From the Kansas City Star (the actual quote!!!)

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/politics/10515921.htm?1c

---

Measured another way, as a percentage of gross national product, the OECD's figures on development aid show that as of April, none of the world's richest countries donated even 1 percent of its gross national product. Norway was highest, at 0.92 percent; the United States was last, at 0.14 percent.

Such figures were what prompted Jan Egeland - the United Nations' emergency relief coordinator and former head of the Norwegian Red Cross - to challenge the giving of rich nations.

"We were more generous when we were less rich, many of the rich countries," Egeland said. "And it is beyond me, why are we so stingy, really.... Even Christmas time should remind many Western countries at least how rich we have become."

Egeland told reporters Tuesday his complaint wasn't directed at any nation in particular.

---

This was also played on CNN - with the announcer then saying "the UN accused the US of being stingy" - right after playing this quote! It's crazy - this whole story is astroturf - they are blowing smoke up our asses and for what reason? Probably simply to denigrate the UN, best that I can tell.

"Another world is possible!"

Stingy USA (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,142761,00.html)

Jan Egeland (search ), the U.N. humanitarian aid chief, on Tuesday stepped back from criticisms he made of wealthy nations following Sunday's earthquake and tsunamis.

"It is beyond me why we are so stingy, really," Egeland had said at a Monday press conference.


*puts on patented SelginGoggles*


Jan Egeland (search ), the U.N. humanitarian aid chief, on Tuesday stepped back from criticisms he made of those damn Americans following Sunday's earthquake and tsunamis.

"It is beyond me why Americans are so stingy, really," Egeland had said at a Monday press conference.



He meant wealthy nations in general, judging by the quote. I think he was criticising the whole of the First World, rather than America. Although I must admit that I am taking my argument from that one soundbite. Apologies if I'm wrong on this.

Stingy USA (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,142761,00.html)


Geeze ... read yer own clicky there, bubba! Nobody but you actually believes that what Jan said was an attack, but even the White House said it was misinterpreted.

Head - Ass == *POP*

Really? And how much have you sent?
I'm not in a position to send large amounts of money to help people in Asia. THE US GOVERNMENT IS!

This higlights a global trend towards stinginess. Know why? Because 35 million dollars to help countries suffering from a 9-magnitude earthquake is NOTHING!!!!!
well even if it is 'nothing,' why arent you bitching about other cuntries? because the US has given the most!

Got it off the newscasts this evening. As we evaluate further, more money is going in the till, 20 million was added today. There are heaps of evidence, from US Congressional investigations as well as UN internal investigations, that were basically done under duress from public pressure.
I just found the article myself--here at the NY Times. (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/28/politics/28cnd-aid.html?oref=login) The additional $20 million came after the remark where we were called stingy, so one could argue that we were shamed into doing it. It's still a shame that we're providing less in aid that we are for Bush's inauguration.

As to food-for-oil--there's one major investigation going on right now, headed by Paul Volcker, former head of the Federal Reserve, and they haven't come forward with anything yet. The accusations being thrown around are still the same ones that Chalabi was throwing around two years ago--anyone who tells you different is lying to you.

That is one quarter per person more than France, your paragon of leftist virtue, who has so far promised 136,000.
Paragon of leftist virtue? Who said I liked France? My point is, the WORLD is being stingy about this issue!

Geeze ... read yer own clicky there, bubba! Nobody but you actually believes that what Jan said was an attack, but even the White House said it was misinterpreted.

Head - Ass == *POP*
Clicky? Kindly translate for those of who don't know . . . whatever language that is...

the US gives money to every country that needs it. we are the most charritable country in the world, no question about it. calling us stingy is ridiculous.
Not to be nitpicky or anything...but we're not the most charitable. According to an article in the Miami Herald (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/columnists/andres_oppenheimer/3729418.htm?1c), the US ranks 2nd worldwide in total foreign aid (behind Japan), and we come in a dismal dead last among industrialized nations when it comes to foreign aid as a percentage of GNP, which is probably a better measurement of how generous a country is. The US ranks behind: Denmark, the Netherlands, Norway, Germany, Japan, Portugal , and Spain, to name a few. There are more, but I couldn't find them. Anyways, we aren't even close to being the "most charitable country in the world."

But kudos to Congress for the 35 million in aid to Southeast Asia. Well done there.

well even if it is 'nothing,' why arent you bitching about other cuntries? because the US has given the most!
I believe the quote you put in there said "global trend". Unless the US occupies the entire globe, then I was not just addressing the US!

It's still a shame that we're providing less in aid that we are for Bush's inauguration.

Well what do you expect? After all, it's just a bunch of filthy mooslims and good riddance to them! [/sarcasm]

This higlights a global trend towards stinginess. Know why? Because 35 million dollars to help countries suffering from a 9-magnitude earthquake is NOTHING!!!!!
I offer a counterpoint. In 3rd-world countries (many of the Asian countries hit are):

Pennies a day can save a person from dehydration
A quarter is more than adequate to keep them healthily fed
A dollar can ensure that a person has adequate vaccination

While it may not help rebuild infrastructure it will definitely save lives

I offer a counterpoint. In 3rd-world countries (many of the Asian countries hit are):

Pennies a day can save a person from dehydration
A quarter is more than adequate to keep them healthily fed
A dollar can ensure that a person has adequate vaccination

While it may not help rebuild infrastructure it will definitely save lives
They gave the most, I'll give you that. But, what if it's still not enough? THAT'S the important issue. If Sweden donated 35,000,001 dollars, they could say they donated the most. It still isn't NEAR enough money to make a large impact.

I'm not in a position to send large amounts of money to help people in Asia. THE US GOVERNMENT IS!
The US government isn't really, either. Last I checked, we were running a deficit. And who said anything about a large amount? Why can't you donate a small amount? Maybe from fear of being called "stingy"?

I believe the quote you put in there said "global trend". Unless the US occupies the entire globe, then I was not just addressing the US!
i was reffering to the 35 mil part, but i may have miss-understood what was meant in that quote.

People, the UN was referring to the developed world in general. They weren't singling out the US, they were saying we're the best of a bad lot.

They gave the most, I'll give you that. But, what if it's still not enough? THAT'S the important issue. If Sweden donated 35,000,001 dollars, they could say they donated the most. It still isn't NEAR enough money to make a large impact.
So how much money should the US give? 1 billion? 10 billion? 100 billion? Are you familiar with the US current budget, and how much we can or can not afford? You seem very free with spending other people's money . . .

They gave the most, I'll give you that. But, what if it's still not enough? THAT'S the important issue. If Sweden donated 35,000,001 dollars, they could say they donated the most. It still isn't NEAR enough money to make a large impact.
its meant to help get everything started. colin powell said that the US aid will run into the billions for this situation.

People, the UN was referring to the developed world in general. They weren't singling out the US, they were saying we're the best of a bad lot.
When the UN refers to "wealthy nations of the western world", most people know that is diplo-speak for criticism of the US.

The US government isn't really, either. Last I checked, we were running a deficit. And who said anything about a large amount? Why can't you donate a small amount? Maybe from fear of being called "stingy"?
Our own spending sprees and tax cuts are what caused the deficit. If it means I have to pay ten more dollars in taxes to pay the extra aid off, I'll do it. I'm ALSO going to give money to Asia, but I cannot provide the kind of money that the government can.

Meh ... I couldn't tell you how much I've given ... but, even if I did, to brag about it would be wrong. Suffice it to say that for the last 8 years (at least), 90% of my charitable contributions have been to Islamic charities.

So how much money should the US give? 1 billion? 10 billion? 100 billion? Are you familiar with the US current budget, and how much we can or can not afford? You seem very free with spending other people's money . . .

Could cancel the Third World debt and allow countries to develop their own methods of dealing with disasters without debt repayments hanging over their heads. That way, you wouldn't be obliged to provide disaster relief again. Or maybe not...I don't know, it's getting late. *yawn*

I just hope none of this aid goes into the pockets of these countries' leaders, as is usually the case with foreign aid to Third World countries.

You seem very free with spending other people's money . . .
If it means saving lives, I'd pay another 1000 dollars in taxes. Your hard-earned money, while still hard-earned, has an extremely important use right now. An appropriate contribution would be at least 500 million. By repealing tax cuts for people who in no way, shape, or form need them, the budget would fix itself VERY easily.

Meh ... I couldn't tell you how much I've given ... but, even if I did, to brag about it would be wrong. Suffice it to say that for the last 8 years (at least), 90% of my charitable contributions have been to Islamic charities.
As long as they are benevolent charity groups, I applaud you.

Well what do you expect? After all, it's just a bunch of filthy mooslims and good riddance to them! [/sarcasm]
I didn't see any Muslim countries in the list of countries offering aid - such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, Libya. 35 million is an awful lot to give to a "bunch of filthy Muslims".

I didn't see any Muslim countries in the list of countries offering aid - such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, Libya. 35 million is an awful lot to give to a "bunch of filthy Muslims".
I don't think anybody here expected Saudi Arabia to give lots of money. And that quote about "filthy muslims" was sarcastic.

lol good question there
left :sniper:

If it means saving lives, I'd pay another 1000 dollars in taxes. Your hard-earned money, while still hard-earned, has an extremely important use right now. An appropriate contribution would be at least 500 million. By repealing tax cuts for people who in no way, shape, or form need them, the budget would fix itself VERY easily.
If you can afford to pay another 1000 dollars in taxes, why don't you just send that money to aid the people in Asia? And how do you arrive at that figure? What economic model did you use? Have you seen the US budget, projected revenues and expenses?

I don't think anybody here expected Saudi Arabia to give lots of money. And that quote about "filthy muslims" was sarcastic.
Why not? They are a very wealthy nation, with an obvious religious tie to that region. Why are the stingy, "wealthy western nations" expected to do it and Saudi Arabia is not? And yes, I understood the quote was sarcastic, I was being sarcastic back.

If you can afford to pay another 1000 dollars in taxes, why don't you just send that money to aid the people in Asia? And how do you arrive at that figure? What economic model did you use? Have you seen the US budget, projected revenues and expenses?
I said I WILL send money to Asia. Like I said above, the US budget could be fixed so easily if we weren't giving tax cuts to millionaires.

I just hope none of this aid goes into the pockets of these countries' leaders, as is usually the case with foreign aid to Third World countries.
Which is exactly the reason that aid must be given very carefully in a way that is effective. We could give a billion dollars, but it wouldn't help if it all got taken up by corrupt government officials.

Why not? They are a very wealthy nation, with an obvious religious tie to that region. Why are the stingy, "wealthy western nations" expected to do it and Saudi Arabia is not?
I did not expect Saudi Arabia to donate money, because they are not a very humanitarian group. I wish they WOULD, but they won't.

Which is exactly the reason that aid must be given very carefully in a way that is effective. We could give a billion dollars, but it wouldn't help if it all got taken up by corrupt government officials.

Foreign aid is almost never effective. Foreign aid given to Ngo Dinh Diem, for example, was not effective. It was not used to better the lives of the people or fight communism. Rather, it wound up in the pockets of the Ngo Dinh family, as was used to fight anticommunists.

Which is exactly the reason that aid must be given very carefully in a way that is effective. We could give a billion dollars, but it wouldn't help if it all got taken up by corrupt government officials.
This is an honest question. Are the governments of Sri Lanka and Indonesia known to be corrupt?

I said I WILL send money to Asia. Like I said above, the US budget could be fixed so easily if we weren't giving tax cuts to millionaires.
The reason we gave tax cuts to millionaires, upper middle class people, middle class people, and lower middle class people, is because they are the only people that actually PAY taxes! You can't cut someone's taxes when they don't pay them. And the reason I am opposed to raising taxes is because I think your 1000 dollars would be put to far better use when you give directly, rather than going thru layers of government bureaucracy. And you can control who you give it to. I imagine you would object if the government gave millions of dollars to a particular Christian church, as I would object if the government gave millions of dollars to fund on-demand abortions at Planned Parenthood clinics (I do NOT want to get into the abortion issue here, just using these as examples of issues that are probably important to both of us).

This is an honest question. Are the governments of Sri Lanka and Indonesia known to be corrupt?

The answering to that is a resounding yes.

The reason we gave tax cuts to millionaires, upper middle class people, middle class people, and lower middle class people, is because they are the only people that actually PAY taxes!

Where did you get that idea from?

Could cancel the Third World debt and allow countries to develop their own methods of dealing with disasters without debt repayments hanging over their heads. That way, you wouldn't be obliged to provide disaster relief again. Or maybe not...I don't know, it's getting late. *yawn*
The US is trying to arrange exactly that for the country of Iraq, and had to drag France, Germany, and Russia kicking and screaming into agreeing to cancel a percentage of their debt.

The answering to that is a resounding yes.

Proof? Do you have any evidence of that or are you assuming that they are? If you have evidence, could you provide a link?

Proof? Do you have any evidence of that or are you assuming that they are? If you have evidence, could you provide a link?

I don't know about Sri Lanka, but Indonesia is definitely corrupt. I'll try to dig up a link.

The reason we gave tax cuts to millionaires, upper middle class people, middle class people, and lower middle class people, is because they are the only people that actually PAY taxes! You can't cut someone's taxes when they don't pay them. And the reason I am opposed to raising taxes is because I think your 1000 dollars would be put to far better use when you give directly, rather than going thru layers of government bureaucracy. And you can control who you give it to. I imagine you would object if the government gave millions of dollars to a particular Christian church, as I would object if the government gave millions of dollars to fund on-demand abortions at Planned Parenthood clinics (I do NOT want to get into the abortion issue here, just using these as examples of issues that are probably important to both of us).
I don't object to cutting taxes for people who NEED THE MONEY. You're right, I would object if the government gave millions of dollars to the Eastern Orthodox Church for no reason. But as a matter of principle, if a country has gone through a terrible disaster, the US and other countries are obliged to help generously in the humanitarian effort.

I didn't see any Muslim countries in the list of countries offering aid - such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, Libya. 35 million is an awful lot to give to a "bunch of filthy Muslims".

Erm ... maybe that's because Muslims tend not to brag on their charitable donations. We make donations rather anonymous.

Erm ... maybe that's because Muslims tend not to brag on their charitable donations. We make donations rather anonymous.
And the US does not because it is then accused of being "stingy".

And the US does not because it is then accused of being "stingy".

Different culture.

And the US does not because it is then accused of being "stingy".
Ok, before I stop for the night, I will re-emphasize my point. THE US AND ALL OTHER COUNTRIES ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CLEANUP EFFORT. Just because they gave the most, doesn't mean they gave enough.

I don't object to cutting taxes for people who NEED THE MONEY. You're right, I would object if the government gave millions of dollars to the Eastern Orthodox Church for no reason. But as a matter of principle, if a country has gone through a terrible disaster, the US and other countries are obliged to help generously in the humanitarian effort.
What is this about people who "need the money". Who are you to decide how much money someone actually needs, or, for that matter, how much money anyone should have period. What percentage or amount of taxes do you think is enough on the upper middle class, rich, super rich, etc? Some inherit their money, some get their money by stepping on others, but many get theirs simply by hard work and a little old-fashioned American ingenuity. Who are you to say "you make too much money, you need to spend it the way I think you should"?

Proof? Do you have any evidence of that or are you assuming that they are? If you have evidence, could you provide a link?

According to Transparency International, Indonesia ranks among the 10 most corrupt nations in the world.

I don't know about Sri Lanka, but Indonesia is definitely corrupt. I'll try to dig up a link.

Yeah, I did a quick google search and Indonesia is definitely very corrupt. Sri Lanka suffers from it but seemingly not to the same extent.

Just saw that last post. Nice one. In the "great, you found some good evidence" sense rather than the "great, Indonesia is riddled with corruption" sense.

Different culture.
And to be respected.

And to be respected.

Well if the US would just adopt a policy of "It's none of your damn business how much we're giving", after a while people would just shut up about it.

According to this, both Indonesia and Sri Lanka are seriously corrupt.

http://www.transparency.org/pressreleases_archive/2004/2004.10.20.cpi.en.html

Well if the US would just adopt a policy of "It's none of your damn business how much we're giving", after a while people would just shut up about it.
Agreed.

Agreed.

Disco!

Hey ... I just noticed ... we're both Houstonians. H-town ... rock on.

Disco!

Hey ... I just noticed ... we're both Houstonians. H-town ... rock on.
Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!

Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!

Now that was impressive. How much did you get? I got a good 2.5 inches. I know some folks are sitting in 12 inches now that has been on the ground since October, but 2.5 inches in Houston is amazing.

The completely ineffective, beaurocratic organization is in no position to be calling the US stingy. Considering that when something needs to be done, the UN sits on its ass and points fingers.

The completely ineffective, beaurocratic organization is in no position to be calling the US stingy. Considering that when something needs to be done, the UN sits on its ass and points fingers.

Beats sitting on your fingers and pointing ass ... that thing could go off!

Now that was impressive. How much did you get? I got a good 2.5 inches. I know some folks are sitting in 12 inches now that has been on the ground since October, but 2.5 inches in Houston is amazing.
A flake or two only, no accumulation, I live north of the city. I saw a little more than that when I was singing at Christmas Eve services at a church in the Galleria area.

A flake or two only, no accumulation, I live north of the city. I saw a little more than that when I was singing at Christmas Eve services at a church in the Galleria area.

Ah ... NW here ... closer to Conroe, really, but we caught a band of it. Kinda nice.

Ah ... NW here ... closer to Conroe, really, but we caught a band of it. Kinda nice.
Don't tell me you were out celebrating Christmas Eve with us Christian infidels?

Don't tell me you were out celebrating Christmas Eve with us Christian infidels?

rofl ... no ... but after Isha (evening salat), I did watch it for a while and even threw some snowballs.

rofl ... no ... but after Isha (evening salat), I did watch it for a while and even threw some snowballs.
Well, you are welcome at my church anytime. We need some heathens to convert this week ... :D

Well, you are welcome at my church anytime. We need some heathens to convert this week ... :D

*snicker* Don't make me behead you on camera! :D :D

*snicker* Don't make me behead you on camera! :D :D
ROFLMAO!! Nice debating with you. I think this thread's about done. See you at the next thread. :)

ROFLMAO!! Nice debating with you. I think this thread's about done. See you at the next thread. :)

Yeah ... I'm sure something else will come up. I don't mind a good debate, but it is always the mark of good debaters who can say, "Well, that was fun, but it's run its course. Let's go have a beer and wait for the next one."

Yeah ... I'm sure something else will come up. I don't mind a good debate, but it is always the mark of good debaters who can say, "Well, that was fun, but it's run its course. Let's go have a beer and wait for the next one."
Agreed.

No one even stoped to mention that the all holy French government made the amazing contributin of $150,000.... my redcross chapter alone collected more then that just from my county already...

the 15 million the US government gave was only an INITIAL offer.. it has already been bumped to 35..and is expected to rise..a nd thats only the GOVERNMENT... private organizations and individuals double that amount easily..

No one even stoped to mention that the all holy French government made the amazing contributin of $150,000.... my redcross chapter alone collected more then that just from my county already...

the 15 million the US government gave was only an INITIAL offer.. it has already been bumped to 35..and is expected to rise..a nd thats only the GOVERNMENT... private organizations and individuals double that amount easily..

The national red cross website says that over the last three days it has collected $18 million for relief efforts. (This taken from http://www.redcross.org/)

The national red cross website says that over the last three days it has collected $18 million for relief efforts. (This taken from http://www.redcross.org/)

exactly you only make my point.. The US is already at 35 million and soon to rise again. hell.. the EU only alloted 22 million so far... THE EU.. ! outragous all those contries could only scrounge that much. and the 35 milliion the US gives dosn't even account for the personal donations of the citizens, which far exceed it.

Im still so astonished of the under reoporting of the outragous 150,000 France is giving.

exactly you only make my point.. The US is already at 35 million and soon to rise again. hell.. the EU only alloted 22 million so far... THE EU.. ! outragous all those contries could only scrounge that much. and the 35 milliion the US gives dosn't even account for the personal donations of the citizens, which far exceed it.

Im still so astonished of the under reoporting of the outragous 150,000 France is giving.


Oh, by no means was I trying to refute your point.
Not only am I frustrated with the reaction of these nations who are apparantly condemning us, but I'm disgusted that they're using a tragedy like this to take another slap at the US.

The European Union as pledged "up to 30 million euros on top of 3 million euros already allocated to IFRC".

Then offcourse, apart from that, the nations that comprise the EU have also donated resourses; That would mount to have each US state giving each one aid.


You can find the facts here:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=7202540


And France alone is giving 15 million euros.

It might also be noted that if you add up private chartiable giving, the US beats out the EU by a considerable margin. And that private charitable giving also beast out the US government foreign aid budget.

It seems that you don't have to tax an American to force them to give to charity the way that you have to force a European through direct taxation.

And if you're worried about that private charitable giving coming with a "price", you can forget about it. It's free of charge, and we won't make political demands through the American Red Cross.

Something else to note. Most American charitable giving falls under the umbrella of the United Way. And what group gives more to the United Way than any other group in the US? Jews, through the United Jewish Appeal. It's usually just over half the total amount collected by the United Way.

So go ahead and call us stingy. We're not being forced to cough up the cash like a European.

Two things you can count on from a European:
1. They will never liberate another country for any reason.
2. They will never give charitably unless forced to do so.

I was just talking with a nurse who works for Doctors Without Borders, and she said that most of their money and equipment comes from the US.

Two things you can count on from a European:
1. They will never liberate another country for any reason.
2. They will never give charitably unless forced to do so.

let's rephrase that
Two things you can count on from a European:
1. They will never "liberate" another country from having electricity and water.
2. They will never give charitably to religious organizations who seek to condemn muslims, liberals, and communists unless forced to do so at gunpoint.
It might also be noted that if you add up private chartiable giving, the US beats out the EU by a considerable margin. And that private charitable giving also beast out the US government foreign aid budget.
beast huh?
hey how much of that giving is to religious organizations who spend craploads of cash on those fancy pews (imagine all the people who could be cured of whatever the hell they've problems w/ the money that has been put into churches)
jesus would just have everybody go over to somebody's house once a week and pray there

I did not expect Saudi Arabia to donate money, because they are not a very humanitarian group. I wish they WOULD, but they won't.

They've givin 10 Million...

http://www.saudiembassy.net/2004News/Press/PressDetail.asp?cIndex=262

I did not expect Saudi Arabia to donate money, because they are not a very humanitarian group. I wish they WOULD, but they won't.
You are aware that from the Koran, Muslims are to donate at least 5% of their income to charity, aren't you?
So I would guess that Indonesia at least will be getting a lot of money from Muslims around the World.

looking at the bill gates comment I found this

Bill Gates, who is considered, the wealthiest man in the world, has started his very own foundation called the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation announced on 6/6/01, that in the first half of the year, Bill and Melinda Gates have given their charitable foundation an additional $2 billion, bringing the total endowment of the foundation to $23.5 billion. This foundation includes a Global Health Program, which looks to improve the health of women and children, particularly in the developing world which is the overriding goal of the Global Health Program. The foundation currently focuses its attention on three areas: vaccine-preventable diseases, reproductive and child health and conditions associated with poverty. The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is dedicated to sharing the promise of new technologies with all citizens. The foundation is focusing its efforts in three critical areas: education, libraries and public access to information.


23.5 BILLION YIKES lol that is a LOT more then a LOT of countries aid lol

we give money to countrys that would rather not have nething to do with us. We give money to countrys like France and other "world powers" to help there economys and what not. We also send aid to countrys that hate us. Why? Because were stingy thats why...lol

Bush noted that the United States provided $2.4 billion "in food, in cash, in humanitarian relief to cover the disasters for last year. ... That's 40 percent of all the relief aid given in the world last year."

But the journey from the $35 million to potentially $1 billion or more in help for the tens of thousands of latest victims is fraught with bureaucratic twists.

First, the U.S. Agency for International Development, which distributes foreign aid, will have to ask for more money, since the initial $35 million aid package drained its emergency relief fund, said Andrew Natsios, the agency's administrator.

"We just spent it," Natsios said. "We'll be talking to the (White House) budget office ... what to do at this point."

Natsios said the Pentagon also is spending tens of millions to mobilize an additional relief operation, with C-130 transport planes winging their way from Dubai to Indonesia with pre-stocked supplies of tents, blankets, food and water bags.

Sounds like there are some issues just with moving the funding ... not a lack of will but rather some loopholes the federal agency has to go through

And I like how last year the US covered 40 percent (neerly half) of TOTAL aid in the world ... intresting

Alomogordo writes:

THE US AND ALL OTHER COUNTRIES ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CLEANUP EFFORT

Excuse me, why are We ( the generic "we" - US and other countries ) responsible for the clean up efforts?

Don't get me wrong, we should all work together to get this fixed, and I am going to donate as much as I can.

But to hear some one say that "We" are responsible, as if we have some heavenly mandate, or some specific obligation just kerfuules my feathers.

Waves to Selgin and Keruvalia from the SW side of the Bayou City

The USA is so far giving 35 million dollars in aid to the countries affected by the tsunamis in Asia, more than any other country, including France, which has so far only pledged, count'em, 136,000 dollars.....
BullShit....
First it would be more Fair to comare the US to the EU...Cos they are the 2 biggest Economies...

at 35 millios...More than any other country? says who? CNN/FOX?

my sources say Spain is giving more than 60mill...and they have a small GNP.

BullShit....
First it would be more Fair to comare the US to the EU...Cos they are the 2 biggest Economies...

at 35 millios...More than any other country? says who? CNN/FOX?

my sources say Spain is giving more than 60mill...and they have a small GNP.
if we are taking what is expected soon rather then what they can scrounge up imidiatly they were projecting 1 bil from the us at least

if we are taking what is expected ...Following the "stingy" speak at the UN...Bush is offering an additional 20 mill....as a loan.

Following the "stingy" speak at the UN...Bush is offering an additional 20 mill....as a loan.
Whats avalible right now ... hopfully (and most likly) a lot more will be shook free for thoes who need it

By the time Bush decided to announce to the world that America was going to give the first amount (15 million dollars) Australia had already sent 5 medical teams consisting of over 400 people (doctors, nurses, police etc) and given 35 million dollars...
I was shocked and appalled by America's response. Completely indignant.
However i understand that the amount America offers will eventually be larger than everyone else...purely because they generally stretch out their aid over the time period.
However...for a couple of hours there i was mighty cranky with the US response.

news flash
Spain gave $ 88 million dollars

news flash
Spain gave $ 88 million dollars
Yup...he showed the to the others....now UK, US and Japan have followed suit

Finally, Norway has upped its pitiful initial pledge to $180 million. A start, at least.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/01/03/norway.aid/index.html

Finally, Norway has upped its pitiful initial pledge to $180 million. A start, at least.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/01/03/norway.aid/index.html
thanks people of Norway, You should be proud.

Yup...he showed the to the others....now UK, US and Japan have followed suit
I thought the Uk gov had pledge over £50 million and the people of the Uk have raised nearly £60 million!

I thought the Uk gov had pledge over £50 million and the people of the Uk have raised nearly £60 million!
quite. UK govt pledged £50 million... around $94m. and the people have raised so far £76m - which the govt has promised to match.
plus Japan is the current leader with a pledge of something ridiculous like $150m.
that said, number counting in a crisis like this is pointless and heartless - just wanted to get the facts straight. the death toll too has become a counting game for the media over here - shame imo.

source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4144411.stm)

Updated world donations (Million dollars)
African Union 0.10
Algeria 2.00
Australia 46.48
Austria 2.72
Bahrain 2.00
Britain 96.00
Bulgaria 0.14
Canada 33.00
China 60.42
Denmark 54.88
EU 40.81
Finland 6.12
France 56.18
Germany 27.21
Hungary 0.27
Ireland 13.62
Italy 95.00
Japan 500.00
Kuwait 10.00
Libya 2.00
Netherlands 34.00
New Zealand 3.60
Norway 180.00
Poland 1.00
Portugal 10.88
Qatar 25.00
Saudi Arabia 10.00
Singapore 3.10
Slovakia 0.23
Slovenia 0.11
South Korea 5.00
Spain 68.02
Sweden 80.00
Switzerland 23.81
Taiwan 5.25
Turkey 1.25
UAE 2.00
USA 350.00
Venezuela 2.00
World Bank 250.00
TOTAL: 1,940.73
my source... http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/a...reut/index.html

Wow where to start. Well ill be the first one to tell you that the US is not stingy in any way shape or form.
My question is though does the US spend their money right, and trust me the answer is no. They should have a primary objective of taking care of the people of their homeland before taking care of the people of these countries.
We Have people rotting in ditches as we speak that served in the united states armed forces.
So, the US giving is great but what are we recieving. Just think if you help a Drunk homeless man to straighten up his life thats just one more person to add to the US work force, but if you were to build a house for a man in Iraq that was torn apart by a war with no cause, other then the satisfaction of knowing you did good there would be no real help for our nation that is.

I thought the Uk gov had pledge over £50 million and the people of the Uk have raised nearly £60 million!
time frames...

The UK is doing very good.

All in All...I fully expect the EU to give more than the US and even Japan.

time frames...

The UK is doing very good.

All in All...I fully expect the EU to give more than the US and even Japan.
Why? (just curious) but why do you expect that?

...
So, the US giving is great but what are we recieving. Just think if you help a Drunk homeless man to straighten up his life thats just one more person to add to the US work force, but if you were to build a house for a man in Iraq that was torn apart by a war with no cause, other then the satisfaction of knowing you did good there would be no real help for our nation that is.
In Iraq we are re-building Electrical, Water and bridges...

but who destroyed those to begin with?

Why? (just curious) but why do you expect that?
The EU and the US? they have economies about the same size.

Apparently, the US, in combination with private charity by Americans, is on track to give more money than anyone else.

It might also be noted that when you send two aircraft carriers with their helicopters to bring aid to remote areas, their expense is not part of the promised funds. And it isn't cheap to do, or nations like France would be sending their carrier.

Nice job, France!

The EU and the US have a economy about the same size
Ok I would get into it but this a little too "one upman" like even for me :D

Apparently, the US, in combination with private charity by Americans, is on track to give more money than anyone else.

It might also be noted that when you send two aircraft carriers with their helicopters to bring aid to remote areas, their expense is not part of the promised funds. And it isn't cheap to do, or nations like France would be sending their carrier.

Nice job, France!
While I not going to get into the anti another country the last reports is military spending was roughly 10 mil a day for the effort just for deploying and running ships and medical supplys (not sure if that includes food given out) and yeah not included in the pledge fund so far

...I fully expect the EU to give more than the US and even Japan...[cos]...The EU and the US have a economy about the same size
I'm afraid you are up for a disappointment there. The EU doesn't have reserves of that kind to give from (to my knowledge anyways).
It's up for the memberstates. Just add them all together and you'll see what the EU gives in comparison to that of the USA. If that interests you - or anybody - that is.
I'm just happy everybody gives what they can.

EDIT: And that's probably what you meant... oh well.

... memberstates. Just add them all together and you'll see what the EU gives ...Of course i include memberstates.

It might also be noted that if you add up private chartiable giving, the US beats out the EU by a considerable margin.
The UK public has (the last I heard) given £60 million in charitable donations, which has since been matched by the British government.

I don't think the US is being stingy at all, but I think it's highly unfair to categorise all of Europe as being such. Maybe some countries in the region are, but some of them certainly aren't - or, at least, are trying their best. I don't like the EU in the political sense, but it's not fair to say that the whole thing is crap in this regard. Perhaps the EU as a whole won't give huge amounts, but as has been said, (some of?) the member states of it have made good efforts. And rightly so.