NationStates Jolt Archive

A small recap of where these terms originated:

Left/right wing originated from where certain politicians were sitting at the Assembly during the French Revolution, in relation to their King. On the right were all the members of the (primarily) 1st and 2nd Estates (Clergy and Nobility), who opposed change. In the center sat people who wanted some change, but not as much as the 3rd Estate (peasants) who sat on the left.

I have come to the conclusion (actually, I did so a while ago) that the political spectrum of 'left-vs-right' is outdated, to say the least. I am in favor of a 2-axis spectrum, each of which separately defines economical and socal issues (Ok, most of NS knows about the political compass of which I speak - I just want to see if people on this board still think if 'left-vs-right' is still a good idea)

Left v Right has always been outdated because it relies on the concept that there are only two pure ideologies in the world.

Personally, I pity the person that labels themselves a “conservative” or a “liberal.” In doing so they stunt their capacity for out of the box thinking, and they make themselves way too predictable.

I'm an anarchist, which doesn't fit the liberal or conservative side very well at all.

Eh. The basic concept is the same, so I don't think it's outdated. I also don't really think it matters. The idea behind left and right is that the "political pendulum" is always swinging back and forth. That's what happened in France. It would bounce from conservative to liberal and back again.

I would tend to agree, as there are many people to whom the left/right scale doesn't applyto all people (Libertarians, for example). I do prefer the two-scale axis, but I think Liberalsm and Conservatism are still valid ideologies, and being a 'Liberal' myself (I think Green Liberal Social Democrat would probably fulfill the criteria quite likely) I would say that, while many people can be labelled in some way, it is important to remember that these labels aren't single creeds, and those who share a label may not share all the same views. Eg, despite being Liberal, the only reason why I support abortion being legal is because, otherwise, backstreet abortions would inevitably take place, which is less desirable than legal abortions. Similarly, a friend of mine who could also be named Liberal, has starkly different views to me about the environment.

Just a few thoughts.
Mikorlias of Imardeavia

why is there a debate? is it really necessary that we have an "official" simple way to describe politics? why not take things on an issue-by-issue basis? we use left vs. right wing because most people align themselves into two camps. obviously there are some people who think for themselves, but most do not.

George Washington warned against forming political parties.
But it happened anyway. :headbang:
Silly Americans. Never can take anyone's advise...

George Washington warned against forming political parties.
But it happened anyway. :headbang:
Silly Americans. Never can take anyone's advise...
It was inevitable. Jefferson and Hamilton had such different views that is bound to happen.

Bill Clinton added more complexity to the debate with "Third-Way" politics.

It defineately is inaccurate to describe politics as "left vs. right". There are many different political ideologies, not just liberal and conservative. You can't lump people's beliefs in one of these two categories like that.

George Washington warned against forming political parties.
But it happened anyway. :headbang:
Silly Americans. Never can take anyone's advise...

It most likely would've been best had we taken his advice, but it's too late now.

I've never thought of myself as left or right.. I am a classical liberal. I do use the terms at times though as while they may not be accurate there is a sort of universal understanding of what they mean. (even if wrong)

George Washington warned against forming political parties.
But it happened anyway. :headbang:
Silly Americans. Never can take anyone's advise...

yeah you brilliant scholar. that's so typical of americans LOL. i'm sure nobody advised america to start political parties, george washington was the only one who gave advice on the matter. fuck off you stupid heathen. i'm excessively liberal and disgusting narrow-minded bias likes this pisses me off to no end and makes me want to side with america's right wing xenophobes. god damn you're stupid.

It most likely would've been best had we taken his advice, but it's too late now.
It was inevitable! We can warn against Palestinians killing Israelis and Israelis killing Palestinians, but it's still gonna happen!

It was inevitable! We can warn against Palestinians killing Israelis and Israelis killing Palestinians, but it's still gonna happen!

I know it was inevitable.

Left and Right is continually used to assert a distinction between "Liberal" and "Conservative"... It assumes there are only two sides to an issue.

Of course then, one must ask....

Are Libertarians "left-wing" or "right-wing"? If so, then why?

Are Constitutionalists "left-wing" or "right-wing"? If so, then why?

Were the founding fathers Left-wing? or Right-wing? Were they "liberal" or were they "conservative", if so; then why?

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I personally like the 2-axis system of political mapping. "liberal"-"conservative" against "Statist"-"Anarchist"...

To map, at least roughly, the platforms of US parties:

Republicans are "Conservative" - "Statists"
Democrats are "Liberal" - "Statists"
Constitutionalists are "Conservative" - "Anarchists"
Libertarians are "Liberal" - "Anarchists"

For example: Dems and Reps argue mostly on how adherant the government should be to "tradition".

Libertarians and Democrats only argument lays in how powerful the state should be over the people.

Libertarians and Republicans argument is on just about everything really...

Constitutionalists and Libertarians only argue on the level of "traditional values"

Constitutionalists and Democrats can't agree on anything.

And Constitutionalists and Republicans only argument is on the level of state power.

Bill Clinton added more complexity to the debate with "Third-Way" politics.
"Third Way" is a big lie. It's not a political philosophy. It's just being conservative while pretending to be liberal.

Left and right can be used accurately to describe economic policies but does not take account of social policies or how democratic a government is. I think the most accurate way to desribe politics is the political compass which has a seperate economic and social scale.