NationStates Jolt Archive

A lot of threads are about specific religions I've noticed.....so this one can be about any and all of them. I dont know a whole lot about most religions, but I've enjoyed learning from so many different people here on NS. What are your beliefs or disbeliefs? I myself struggle with my sprituality often. I cant help but think I'm not alone....

I personally don't believe in the existence of a God. I try to be open to the possibility that I'm wrong (in which case, I'll resign myself to Limbo), so I think that makes me an Atheist/Agnostic.

That doesn't mean I'm against the institution of religion as a whole, mind you; I just don't think it's for me. I think that religion has an OVERALL positive effect (excluding fanaticism and zealous violence, etc., which seems to stem primarily from a misunderstanding or misapplication of religion) on people.

I'm a traditionalist Jew... i believe in G-d, do all the holidays and many of the dietary laws, as well as trying to become Orthodox. It's harder then u think.

I'm so used to using electricity on Shabbat... :(

I was raised to "love God" no matter what. When I asked how do you love someone youve never met or had a conversation with, I got "you just love him because he sent his son down here to earth to die for your sins." Well I doubt I had sinned to awfully much at 5 years old. But whatever. For me, its hard to love God and Jesus. Does that make sense? All my life I was told to thank God for everything. Food, clothing, shelter, health, toys, everything. So I did. But as you get older, your mind takes over. Suddenly "Now I lay me down to sleep" isnt the kind of prayer that cuts the mustard. I was taught that God is a loving gentle God, but I also was supposed to fear him. Everytime I turn on the news and hear how some 6 year old was raped by a 40 year old or a 9 month old baby was killed by its moms boyfriend or how thousands of innocent children are dying from starvation, or see a commercial for a charity collecting money for kids dying from cancer, I stand there for a moment and say to myself...." why.....why doesnt he fix all of this??" How do you jut accept all the suffering in the world and just go on about your worshipping?

I am christian... we basicly believe that Jesus came to earth and became human in wake of humanities sins. To erase people sins so that they could join God in heaven he died on the cross and went to hell for three days before he went to God. now to be forgiven we can just ask God because he committed the ultimate sacrifice of his only son.

I was raised to "love God" no matter what. When I asked how do you love someone youve never met or had a conversation with, I got "you just love him because he sent his son down here to earth to die for your sins." Well I doubt I had sinned to awfully much at 5 years old. But whatever. For me, its hard to love God and Jesus. Does that make sense? All my life I was told to thank God for everything. Food, clothing, shelter, health, toys, everything. So I did. But as you get older, your mind takes over. Suddenly "Now I lay me down to sleep" isnt the kind of prayer that cuts the mustard. I was taught that God is a loving gentle God, but I also was supposed to fear him. Everytime I turn on the news and hear how some 6 year old was raped by a 40 year old or a 9 month old baby was killed by its moms boyfriend or how thousands of innocent children are dying from starvation, or see a commercial for a charity collecting money for kids dying from cancer, I stand there for a moment and say to myself...." why.....why doesnt he fix all of this??" How do you jut accept all the suffering in the world and just go on about your worshipping?


I understand where you are coming from …

My problems personally started with organized religion … and went onto a lack of faith in humans to correctly interpret god (if there is one) and if so teach it to people.

So many contradictions and hypocrisy built into religion (Roman Catholicism at least … probably more just not as familiar with them)

Basically I am unsure in first and foremost organized religion … and secondly not sure about the existence of a deity … so yeah I am sure I am confusing I will try to further elaborate later

I have my own "religion". I personally believe that there may or may not be god(s), and that it really doesn't matter much to be. At least at the moment. I practice physiolatry, worship of nature. I think that life is a never ending cycle of birth, death, and rebirth. Until the planet is deemed uninhabitable by life, in which there will be a permanent rut in the cycle.

I'm an Jew turned Muslim (what I like to call a "Jewslim") so my life didn't change much for the conversion, but I can assure you that even the most righteous among us struggle with their beliefs.

We all "try" to be good people and we all succede in many ways and fail in many others. The struggle comes from a great many factors:

1] Desire. The Buddhists are right: desire is the single greatest contributer to all suffering. Especially the desire for better "things". There is a wonderful Buddhist saying: "One must act in accordance with how things are, not how one wants things to be".

2] Fear. We all have it - even though many of us try to ignore it. We know when we do something that is wrong, but are often too afraid of the consequences to make ammends. We have the desire (again with the desire) to make ammends, but fear retribution. If we have stolen something, we fear returning it because we fear jail.

3] Judgement. Yes, that's right. Even atheists fear judgement. Maybe they don't fear judgement from a deity, but they fear the judgement of their peers. I can prove this simply by pointing you to an atheist message board and watching the retribution given to an atheist who says "what if we're wrong?" It's the same among religious groups. Too much effort is spent on wondering, "Am I good enough to be around these people?"

You'll notice, however, that such struggle stems from our very human frailties. It is an unavoidable thing. The trick is to learn how to embrace the struggle and be as open with it as possible. If you go to your priest, imam, rabbi, or whatever with a question of faith and of your own struggle, they should listen to your question and answer with concern. Don't be afraid, however, to ask them because they struggle too.

"It is Allah Who made the Earth a resting-place for you and the heaven a canopy and has given you shape - and made your shapes beautiful - and has provided you with pure things. That is Allah, your Lord: therefore, blessed be Allah, the Lord of the Worlds."

-Quran (40:64)

I have my own "religion". I personally believe that there may or may not be god(s), and that it really doesn't matter much to be. At least at the moment. I practice physiolatry, worship of nature. I think that life is a never ending cycle of birth, death, and rebirth. Until the planet is deemed uninhabitable by life, in which there will be a permanent rut in the cycle.

just for your info... that would be the basic Idea of Druidism... A christian would say that God made the Tree/plant/animal... whereas a druid would say that god IS the tree/plant/animal

A lot of threads are about specific religions I've noticed.....so this one can be about any and all of them. I dont know a whole lot about most religions, but I've enjoyed learning from so many different people here on NS. What are your beliefs or disbeliefs? I myself struggle with my sprituality often. I cant help but think I'm not alone....

I believe that God has never left his creation alone. God sends Divine Messengers to earth every few thousand years to renew the spiritual knowledge of humankind. And God promised that someday this earhly world wouldbe transformed into a place where all people live like one common family.
Here are a few quotes from Bah'u'llah the latest Messenger from God. Enjoy.

1. O SON OF SPIRIT!
My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting.

2. O SON OF SPIRIT!
The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.

(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

I guess I just have a hard time worshipping the almighty loving God when I see innocent children suffering so much. What purpose does that serve? Adults-yes..fine- punish us. But what good does it do to let a child be abused or sexually assaulted or starved to death or die some painful death?

What are your beliefs or disbeliefs?

I myself am somewhat of an apathetic agnostic. Just to give you an idea of our beliefs/disbeliefs....

Question : "Do you believe God and Jesus are real?"

Answer of apathetic Agnostics: "We don't know, and quite frankly we don't really care"

I guess I just have a hard time worshipping the almighty loving God when I see innocent children suffering so much. What purpose does that serve? Adults-yes..fine- punish us. But what good does it do to let a child be abused or sexually assaulted or starved to death or die some painful death?

perhaps you could be a deist then? someone who believes in a Deity but believes that they have no direct influence on the world..

Here's my option about religion: Personally, I don't have one, but it is understandalbe that other people do. We need a little bit of spritually in our lives, to give us hope, or someting to live for. But then again, there are some people that believe that their soul purpose of living is that they serve and worship their God. Some expamles of this is the suicide bombings in Iraq. Those people are blowing themselves up for something they are not 100% certain really, truely exist. Anyd they think that when they die in the fight for protecting their motherland, they be waited on hand and foot up in their heavean, or whatever. That's just giving people the wrong idea of what is right and wrong.
Another example of this is that people spend so much of their lives doing or not doing what is apporate in their religion. A commmon, well known example of this is Ned Flanders, from the Simpsons. He spends every other waking moment worshiping God. But this brings me into my theory of how people should live life: "Some people are too afrid of what is going to happend when they die, they don't acculaly live. They hang on to every word of the Bible or the Koran or whatever just to get some reasurrance."
One more point I would like to make is that religions are scaring people into joining them. Christiany, for example, says that you can't do this or that, or you'll suffer a eternity of firey pain. And, in fact, they have become a major part of the ethics in this country. Our founding fathers have sucked relgion into as much things as possible: Money, documents, war, ect. So I believe that it's okay to be religious, but if somebody joins your religion, it should be because they believe in the same things as the relgion, not that because they've been scared the crap out of.

I started out as an Anglican, back in the shadowy past.

I had a lot of friends that were female... that I respected a great deal... they were some of the funniest, cleverest people I knew. But, there was this underlying thread of my Book that said they were second-class citizens, somehow. I didn't like that thought, and I tried to explore WHY that might be, so I read deeper and deeper into the text.

And, the thing was, the deeper I got into the text, the more inconsistency I found, and the more error - which was a problem... because I had been taught that the bible was the word of god, and so couldn't be wrong...

So, why does it say in the Bible that Bats are a type of bird?
Why does it say that grasshoppers are a four-legged creature?
Why does it say that David killed Goliath... twice.

Eventually, I found myself in a place where I didn't trust the book anymore... and I found myself wondering why MY religion was right, when I had friends of other religions, all with their OWN holy books... and I could see that MY holy book was flawed.

From there... well, I didn't believe the book, so what evidence was there for a god? I looked, for years... and I never find anything that cannot be explained by some other means. At some point, just stopped holding on to a 'blind faith'.

I guess I just have a hard time worshipping the almighty loving God when I see innocent children suffering so much. What purpose does that serve?

The eternal question of Job. That's one of the horrible conditions of being human - we have to see and hear things that we cannot understand.

Let's say you're a 5 year old and you're watching your mother bake a pie. You know that the pie is good and you will greatly enjoy the pie when it is done. However, you're 5 - and having children myself, I see this all the time - and you have yet to learn certain concepts. You constantly wonder why the pie isn't done yet and when the pie is done, you wonder why you can't eat it yet.

You feel like you're being punished. You're not.

You could ask your mother why, but the answer doesn't mean much to you because the language is vague. You see the pie, it's right there in front of you, and you are hungry now, but your mother has said, "It must cool before I cut it."

If you reach out to touch the pie, you get burned. It hurts for a long time (in your mind, anyway) and if the pie is hot enough, you could have a small scar for the rest of your life (eternal punishment, anyone?)

Moral: Let your mother bake the pie. She will give you some when it's ready. Now go play.

I was raised to "love God" no matter what. When I asked how do you love someone youve never met or had a conversation with, I got "you just love him because he sent his son down here to earth to die for your sins." Well I doubt I had sinned to awfully much at 5 years old. But whatever. For me, its hard to love God and Jesus. Does that make sense? All my life I was told to thank God for everything. Food, clothing, shelter, health, toys, everything. So I did. But as you get older, your mind takes over. Suddenly "Now I lay me down to sleep" isnt the kind of prayer that cuts the mustard. I was taught that God is a loving gentle God, but I also was supposed to fear him. Everytime I turn on the news and hear how some 6 year old was raped by a 40 year old or a 9 month old baby was killed by its moms boyfriend or how thousands of innocent children are dying from starvation, or see a commercial for a charity collecting money for kids dying from cancer, I stand there for a moment and say to myself...." why.....why doesnt he fix all of this??" How do you jut accept all the suffering in the world and just go on about your worshipping?

And the worst part is when someone tries to convince you it's a good thing.

A work-colleague told me that AIDS was a punishment from God, for the sinful lives of homosexuals...

And I'm thinking... so, what kind of god sends a punishment that is SO non-specific? If it was to punish homosexuals... why are babies in hospitals contracting AIDS through tainted blood?

I'm an Atheist whose philosophies are closest to what Nietzsche proposed:

-Egalitarianism is retarded (<--- this being the keystone of my philosophy)
-each sex has a role and is unique
-each race is unique
-hierarchy is good and natural
-suffering is inherit. Accept it.
-the "pursuit of happines" is stupid
-stoicism is good

Etc.

For a good brief on my philosophy read: www.anus.com

I believe in a god It is my belief that subomniescient he knows everything that happened and is happening but he doesnt know what will happen. If he did what would the point of existance be, it would be like watching a mystery movie a second time to find something you already know. Our creation is not a game to him but could be one as it is just a way to see what will happen. Come to think of it it means I believe in alternate realities as well. God would probably want to see what would happen if things were different. So there could be a world in whcih the mass slaugter of jews never happened consequently Hitlers aryan dream could have come to pass. I dont believe in religion but I beleive in god

And the worst part is when someone tries to convince you it's a good thing.

A work-colleague told me that AIDS was a punishment from God, for the sinful lives of homosexuals...

And I'm thinking... so, what kind of god sends a punishment that is SO non-specific? If it was to punish homosexuals... why are babies in hospitals contracting AIDS through tainted blood?
pfft obviously cause god hates babies

pfft obviously cause god hates babies

Well, if certain current American presidents are to be believed... he must do...

He allows the specific conditions that ensure GREATER numbers of babies, that REDUCES the possibilities of avoiding pregnancy, or of avoiding birth, and the INCREASES the number of mouths drawing on finite resources, thereby INCREASING the hardship on all.

And the worst part is when someone tries to convince you it's a good thing.

A work-colleague told me that AIDS was a punishment from God, for the sinful lives of homosexuals...

And I'm thinking... so, what kind of god sends a punishment that is SO non-specific? If it was to punish homosexuals... why are babies in hospitals contracting AIDS through tainted blood?
Your work collegue is a homophobic asshole. I am not gay but I have friends who are. If this really is the case than I would call god a hypocritical bastard. I am assuming he is a christian a devout one at that and the christian god is an omnecient creator why would god create a punishment for an "crime" he not only new would happen but in essence created in the first place

A lot of threads are about specific religions I've noticed.....so this one can be about any and all of them. I dont know a whole lot about most religions, but I've enjoyed learning from so many different people here on NS. What are your beliefs or disbeliefs? I myself struggle with my sprituality often. I cant help but think I'm not alone....
i feel toward religion the way most people feel toward heroine addiction. it saddens me that many people need religion to get through their lives, and that they depend so much on something that will only inhibit them from experiencing the fullness of their own existence. i see religious people overcome their attachment to do wonderful things, yet i can only feel regret knowing how much greater they could have been if not weighed down by their self-imposed lode stone. i do not consider it my place to force or coerce any person away from their beliefs, but i try to make myself available to those who are interested in building their independence and joining the world as a fully self-aware human being.

as for God-belief, i regard it in precisely the same way that i regard unicorn-belief. both have equal amounts of evidence supporting them, and thus i consider both to be equally likely and equally valid as life-foundations. likewise, disbelief in both God and unicorns can never be founded on solid evidence, since both are myth and beyond the scope of science or empiricism, yet i feel it is most rational, in the absence of evidence, to not assume their existence or presume to speculate on their nature. to base one's life on an unfounded assumption is, to me, dishonorable and unworthy of an adult mind. but, again, i do not believe it is right (or possible) to force any person away from such beliefs, and thus i do not ever attempt to do so. if and when they are ready they will make that choice for themselves.

I'm more along the lines of an agnostic. Besides decomposition and the continued growth of my hair and fingernails.... I don't know what happens after death. Life after death is oxymoronic, but truth can be stranger than fiction. I decided to just wait and find out. If there is a god, it's a good thing he's immortal because I've got a long list of stuff to bitch about. If there isn't, I'll finally catch up on all the sleep I've been missing. I figure either way, so long as I live a decent life... I'll live a decent life. One's all I'm asking for.

I'm Episcopalian (places outside the US it's Anglican Church). Besides the standard Christian tenets, I'm very much a live-and-let-live sort of believer. As long as what you do in your religion doesn't hurt me or others or keep me from practicing my faith, go right ahead. I'm not big on telling other people they're going to hell because they don't believe what I do (probably because people like telling me I'm going to hell for the same reason).

Theoretically, Episcopalians are supposed to be big on tolerance. I figure, who am I to judge? I also think that there are other faiths out there that have excellent ideas on how to live and how to conduct oneself. My religious studies prof called it "pluralism": no one has a corner on the Truth; the Truth is whatever your particular religion sees it as, and whatever your religion says to do to reach the Truth is right for you. It may not be right for others, but it's right for you.

I think that's me. Pluralist Episcopalian (trying very hard to be, anyway).

Hmm. I think it's possible to be a devout Christian and not have it in for homosexuals. Just like it's possible to be a devout Muslim and not have it in for all infidels. Or to be a devout Catholic and vote for a candidate who believes in the woman's right to choose.

Just because someone believes one set of ideas, don't go throwing a net around them saying that they also MUST believe some other thing.

It's considered bigoted to say, for instance, that a male homosexual is also a pedophile. Wrong to say, but you hear it a lot.

It's just as bigoted to say that just because I'm Christian, I'm a hater of homosexuals, or believe they should be hated.

Or to say that just because I'm a Muslim, I support suicide bombers.

Stop, stop, stop saying that just because someone believes one thing, they MUST believe or do all these other bad things.

Your work collegue is a homophobic asshole. I am not gay but I have friends who are. If this really is the case than I would call god a hypocritical bastard. I am assuming he is a christian a devout one at that and the christian god is an omnecient creator why would god create a punishment for an "crime" he not only new would happen but in essence created in the first place

Yes, he IS a homophobic asshole - which is why I consider him a work-colleague, rather than a friend or even, an acquaintence.

He calls himself a devout christian, but I take issue - since, I don't think his 'message' is the 'message' that Jesus is said to have given.

I'm more along the lines of an agnostic. Besides decomposition and the continued growth of my hair and fingernails.... I don't know what happens after death. Life after death is oxymoronic, but truth can be stranger than fiction. I decided to just wait and find out. If there is a god, it's a good thing he's immortal because I've got a long list of stuff to bitch about. If there isn't, I'll finally catch up on all the sleep I've been missing. I figure either way, so long as I live a decent life... I'll live a decent life. One's all I'm asking for.

hair and fingernails don't keep growing after death.. it's an 'old-wives-tale', stemming from the fact that the soft flesh shrinks around the base of the nail, and on the scalp, making it APPEAR that the hair or nail has lengthened.

The only thing we know for SURE about death, is it happens, and then you rot.

Hmm. I think it's possible to be a devout Christian and not have it in for homosexuals. Just like it's possible to be a devout Muslim and not have it in for all infidels. Or to be a devout Catholic and vote for a candidate who believes in the woman's right to choose.

Just because someone believes one set of ideas, don't go throwing a net around them saying that they also MUST believe some other thing.

It's considered bigoted to say, for instance, that a male homosexual is also a pedophile. Wrong to say, but you hear it a lot.

It's just as bigoted to say that just because I'm Christian, I'm a hater of homosexuals, or believe they should be hated.

Or to say that just because I'm a Muslim, I support suicide bombers.

Stop, stop, stop saying that just because someone believes one thing, they MUST believe or do all these other bad things.

bigoted?
"bigoted

adj : blindly and obstinately attached to some creed or opinion and intolerant toward others; "a bigoted person"; "an outrageously bigoted point of view"
"
More like idodic and such but really not being "bigoted" per say

I think that the signal that they're intolerant is the name-calling and abuse.
Can't be a bigot if you're tolerant.

I'm a christian in the sense that I try to follow the teachings of the guy referred to as Christ. But by that definition, I could also be a Hindu or a Buddhist, since the core beliefs are all very similar. I don't believe in a creator who worries about the individual lives of humans on earth, nor am I certain enough about the existence or lack thereof of a prime mover to even call myself a Deist or atheist.

But one thing is for certain--I don't belong to an organized religion, because quite frankly, most of the time that something gets seriously fucked up in the world and people start to die in large numbers, there's either an organized religion or a dogma of some kind at play, and I don't want any part of that.

hair and fingernails don't keep growing after death.. it's an 'old-wives-tale', stemming from the fact that the soft flesh shrinks around the base of the nail, and on the scalp, making it APPEAR that the hair or nail has lengthened.

The only thing we know for SURE about death, is it happens, and then you rot.


I'm so glad you cleared that up Gravy cause I was about to freak out. Ick!

Yeah, I can sympathize with where a lot of you folks are coming from. Frankly, I'm tired of people who, upon learning that I am an atheist, look at me as if I'm some sort of freak of nature (I'm not denying that one, because nails on a chalkboard don't bother me and my thumbs bend back really far, but I don't like being so openly regarded so) or the Anti-Christ.

Hmm. I think it's possible to be a devout Christian and not have it in for homosexuals. Just like it's possible to be a devout Muslim and not have it in for all infidels. Or to be a devout Catholic and vote for a candidate who believes in the woman's right to choose.

Just because someone believes one set of ideas, don't go throwing a net around them saying that they also MUST believe some other thing.

It's considered bigoted to say, for instance, that a male homosexual is also a pedophile. Wrong to say, but you hear it a lot.

It's just as bigoted to say that just because I'm Christian, I'm a hater of homosexuals, or believe they should be hated.

Or to say that just because I'm a Muslim, I support suicide bombers.

Stop, stop, stop saying that just because someone believes one thing, they MUST believe or do all these other bad things.

Sad to say, but as much as I agree with your POV, I don't think the world's changing any time soon on the stance of hate. Empires, business, faiths (side splinter groups, really), political careers are built on it. It's miserable, but it's a fact. The tried and true best way to rally people and get support and votes is to turn it into an "us and them" thing. But I do like your point. It's the truth, and it drives me nuts when I'm cornered by people I know on campus who tell me that I'm a bad Christian because I don't condemn "X" group (X being whichever group is currently supposed to be hated).

I'm so glad you cleared that up Gravy cause I was about to freak out. Ick!

It's one of the core 'proofs' for vampirism, in historical texts from eastern-Europe.

The other big proof was people chewing their burial shrouds, or clawing at the insides of coffins after death.

(Obviously... the more logical answer was... they just buried someone who WASN'T DEAD yet...)

It's one of the core 'proofs' for vampirism, in historical texts from eastern-Europe.

The other big proof was people chewing their burial shrouds, or clawing at the insides of coffins after death.

(Obviously... the more logical answer was... they just buried someone who WASN'T DEAD yet...)


ack!


but i do love vampire movies.....

ack!


but i do love vampire movies.....


Yeah, me too... I'm like the world's biggest vampire fan.

"Interview with the Vampire" was fantastic.

(Obviously... the more logical answer was... they just buried someone who WASN'T DEAD yet...)

This was, if I recall my history classes, the origin of having a "wake", and the phrase "graveyard shift" (the person would be buried with a string attached to them. The other end would be attached to a bell on the outside of the plot. Someone would be detailed to watch the graveside in case the bell was rung.).

Vampirism or premature burial. Either way, never fails to creep me out. :eek:

Agnostic Non-thiestic Evolutionist would describe me perfectly. I pity those who need a religion as a crutch, but I absolutely respect one's right to believe, as long as they aren't trying to tie me to a torture rack or behead me on a snuff film.

This was, if I recall my history classes, the origin of having a "wake", and the phrase "graveyard shift" (the person would be buried with a string attached to them. The other end would be attached to a bell on the outside of the plot. Someone would be detailed to watch the graveside in case the bell was rung.).

Vampirism or premature burial. Either way, never fails to creep me out. :eek:

Indeed, from what I can gather, wakes were an opportunity for the dead to 'wake up'...

Vampirism is scary in a fairytale fashion.. premature burial is scary in a "god, I never want to wake up in a wooden box, buried under six feet of soil" fashion.

And that, is why I'll be cremated. :)

wow- they didnt teach us that in history! *grumbles*

yeah Grav- I think Brad Pitt was irresistible in that movie........wait....i think hes irresistible in all of his movies *daydreams*


sorry- where were we

Indeed, from what I can gather, wakes were an opportunity for the dead to 'wake up'...

Vampirism is scary in a fairytale fashion.. premature burial is scary in a "god, I never want to wake up in a wooden box, buried under six feet of soil" fashion.

And that, is why I'll be cremated. :)
mmmm creemy grave ...

Or like southpark I could confuse your ashes with quick!

Agnostic Non-thiestic Evolutionist would describe me perfectly. I pity those who need a religion as a crutch, but I absolutely respect one's right to believe, as long as they aren't trying to tie me to a torture rack or behead me on a snuff film.

There it is.

That's my view...

I am perfectly content with religion - when it takes place INSIDE someone's head... once it starts intruding on other people, it becomes a problem.

And, I know, someone will say "but religious people do good works, etc."

Well, non-religious people do, too... I don't think that 'good-works' should be something that are DEFINED by your religion.

mmmm creemy grave ...

Or like southpark I could confuse your ashes with quick!


*gets all girly*

EWWWWWWWWW UT!!!!

as long as they aren't trying to tie me to a torture rack or behead me on a snuff film.

So much for my weekend plans ... *grumble*

There it is.

That's my view...

I am perfectly content with religion - when it takes place INSIDE someone's head... once it starts intruding on other people, it becomes a problem.

And, I know, someone will say "but religious people do good works, etc."

Well, non-religious people do, too... I don't think that 'good-works' should be something that are DEFINED by your religion.
What he said!

*gets all girly*

EWWWWWWWWW UT!!!!
Peach is a girl :eek:

wow- they didnt teach us that in history! *grumbles*

yeah Grav- I think Brad Pitt was irresistible in that movie........wait....i think hes irresistible in all of his movies *daydreams*


sorry- where were we

Yep.. it was the eyes... vampire contacts on Brad were just too delicious... of course, Antonio as "Armand" was pretty damn yummy, too...

Oh, what I wouldn't give for that red crush-velvet cloak...

Erm... what was the topic again?

Yes, he IS a homophobic asshole - which is why I consider him a work-colleague, rather than a friend or even, an acquaintence.

He calls himself a devout christian, but I take issue - since, I don't think his 'message' is the 'message' that Jesus is said to have given.
Probably true

Peach is a girl :eek:

uh huh... and a CUTE one, too... ;)

uh huh... and a CUTE one, too... ;)
that would explain the picture... I suppose

uh huh... and a CUTE one, too... ;)


aww ..... :fluffle:

that would explain the picture... I suppose


speaking of pictures......when do i get to see you two flufflers?

mmmm creemy grave ...

Or like southpark I could confuse your ashes with quick!

Now, now... if there is going to be a 'creamy grave'... it's going to be done PROPERLY... spray cream, and strawberries, please, waiter...

:0

:)

speaking of pictures......when do i get to see you two flufflers?
When I get home :-D

Now, now... if there is going to be a 'creamy grave'... it's going to be done PROPERLY... spray cream, and strawberries, please, waiter...

:0

:)
Sounds almost like a alchaholic drink to me! :)

I guess I just have a hard time worshipping the almighty loving God when I see innocent children suffering so much. What purpose does that serve? Adults-yes..fine- punish us. But what good does it do to let a child be abused or sexually assaulted or starved to death or die some painful death?

Is it fair to blame the mother of children for the misbehavior of her adult children. Especially if has done all in her power to show them the a moral life.

Is it fair to blame the mother of children for the misbehavior of her adult children. Especially if has done all in her power to show them the a moral life.
But we are not talking about adults, rather about children

And yes a mother is blamed if she allows things to happen to her infant kids … even if it is from older siblings

Is it fair to blame the mother of children for the misbehavior of her adult children. Especially if has done all in her power to show them the a moral life.

I'm sorry-I dont understand what youre saying. Who do we blame for children suffering?

speaking of pictures......when do i get to see you two flufflers?

Well, I don't have any pictures of me taken recently...

The last ones I have are a few years out of date, since they still show me as a 'goth', or with my long hair.

I have, thus far, maintained my air of NS mystery by carefully not letting people know what I look like.

If you want to TG me an email address, I'll e you one of my old 'gothy' pictures...:)

Well, I don't have any pictures of me taken recently...

The last ones I have are a few years out of date, since they still show me as a 'goth', or with my long hair.

I have, thus far, maintained my air of NS mystery by carefully not letting people know what I look like.

If you want to TG me an email address, I'll e you one of my old 'gothy' pictures...:)


my ex's hair was almost as long as mine. and you know how long mine is. what a pain to wash!

my ex's hair was almost as long as mine. and you know how long mine is. what a pain to wash!

Indeed it was a pain... my hair was almost halway down my back... but it was soooo lovely... I hated to have to get it cut. :(

Indeed it was a pain... my hair was almost halway down my back... but it was soooo lovely... I hated to have to get it cut. :(
I tend to keep my hair short ... but thats me

Religion? Ah hate it. It's killed millions of people and commited horrible atrocities.

Faith is a diffrent story. I do belive in a God-Just not a "Right" God. More of an abstract "World" God.

I tend to keep my hair short ... but thats me


i was thinking of cutting all of mine off.......well a good bit. 8 inches or so. ??

I tend to keep my hair short ... but thats me

I keep it quite short now... but after growing it for a decade, it was a difficult thing to let go of... :(

i was thinking of cutting all of mine off.......well a good bit. 8 inches or so. ??

Nooooo! Don't do it! You have lovely hair!

Where is the "little-smiley-guy-with-hands-clapped-over-eyes" icon?

Note: email incoming...

Nooooo! Don't do it! You have lovely hair!

Where is the "little-smiley-guy-with-hands-clapped-over-eyes" icon?

Note: email incoming...

lol.....yeah, the popular opinion so far is "NO DONT CUT IT!"
So guess I'd better go with the majority.

lol.....yeah, the popular opinion so far is "NO DONT CUT IT!"
So guess I'd better go with the majority.

Indeed... or there could be 'all kinds of trouble'...

;)

I was going to make a big statement about how forums start out great but often turn in to something unrelated and I hoped it wouldn't happen to this one . . .
:headbang:
Anti stress help;



bang head here ->

Hmm. Go figure.

Hmm. Go figure.
Who are you talking to???

Who are you talking to???
I was referring to the fact that the thread had apparently descended from religious debate into the hair discussion region, and that any warning of such would be semi-useless. No offense meant, if any was taken.

so what if we wander off subject from time to time? i started this thread-i dont care if people go of course for a bit. i mean if youre sitting around a table having a convo with 5 or 6 people, sometimes the subject changes right?

I was baptised Ukrainian Catholic. To this day, there's something very calming about a Catholic Mass to me. I always was spiritually inclined. Prayer and questioning was always part of my life. When I was 12ish a neighbor introduced me to Mormonism. It was interesting; I considered myself Mormon for some time. But my parents dragged me out of it when I was becoming overly zealous. So I kind of went searching for myself. I thought myself as no longer Catholic and would often get into debates with my Priest. I started reading lots of typical Christian books... C.S. Lewis, ect. I thought I wanted to be a pastor, but being female, this made a lot of my "Christian" friends very upset. That was where I started questioning the God of Christianity. I could not, and still to this day can not understand how certain genitalia makes you fit for a position of spiritual authority. But nonetheless I pressed on. I got really heavily into it. I started attending an Assembly of God Church, and I loved the fellowship there, but I had a lot of issues with being told how to believe, especially as my eyes were being opened to issues such as homosexuality. From there, I started seeing the Church and its members as... a game, quite frankly. A game of whose holiest. But I still didn't want to let go, probably because no one in my family was particularly religious, and I guess it was my form of rebellion. And it gave me a purpose, something bigger than myself to live for.
Things went down the crapper with my family. My mom's drinking skyrocketed. She got violent. I ran away. I came back and then would run away again. The police got involved and recommended I stay with another family member, so I was sent to live with my aunt in New York. She shaped a lot of my present religious views. I tried my hardest not to let her, but it happened nonetheless. She considers herself a little bit of everything, but thinks organized religion is evil. I tried to fight. She would take me to see things such as Siddhartha and the movie Saved and I tried to block it out, even refused to watch them sometimes, but nonetheless, my eyes were gradually opened.
So here I am now. Spiritually bereft.
I was thinking about Islam for a while because I think, minus the misogynism, that it's a beautiful religion. Christianity seems to miss something. But I do miss Jesus and I think ultimately that his ideas are fairly correct if not completely.
I'd go back, but I don't want to make myself vulnerable to manipulation like the right-wing. Jesus is just a gimmick for them.

I was baptised Ukrainian Catholic. To this day, there's something very calming about a Catholic Mass to me. I always was spiritually inclined. Prayer and questioning was always part of my life. When I was 12ish a neighbor introduced me to Mormonism. It was interesting; I considered myself Mormon for some time. But my parents dragged me out of it when I was becoming overly zealous. So I kind of went searching for myself. I thought myself as no longer Catholic and would often get into debates with my Priest. I started reading lots of typical Christian books... C.S. Lewis, ect. I thought I wanted to be a pastor, but being female, this made a lot of my "Christian" friends very upset. That was where I started questioning the God of Christianity. I could not, and still to this day can not understand how certain genitalia makes you fit for a position of spiritual authority. But nonetheless I pressed on. I got really heavily into it. I started attending an Assembly of God Church, and I loved the fellowship there, but I had a lot of issues with being told how to believe, especially as my eyes were being opened to issues such as homosexuality. From there, I started seeing the Church and its members as... a game, quite frankly. A game of whose holiest. But I still didn't want to let go, probably because no one in my family was particularly religious, and I guess it was my form of rebellion. And it gave me a purpose, something bigger than myself to live for.
Things went down the crapper with my family. My mom's drinking skyrocketed. She got violent. I ran away. I came back and then would run away again. The police got involved and recommended I stay with another family member, so I was sent to live with my aunt in New York. She shaped a lot of my present religious views. I tried my hardest not to let her, but it happened nonetheless. She considers herself a little bit of everything, but thinks organized religion is evil. I tried to fight. She would take me to see things such as Siddhartha and the movie Saved and I tried to block it out, even refused to watch them sometimes, but nonetheless, my eyes were gradually opened.
So here I am now. Spiritually bereft.
I was thinking about Islam for a while because I think, minus the misogynism, that it's a beautiful religion. Christianity seems to miss something. But I do miss Jesus and I think ultimately that his ideas are fairly correct if not completely.
I'd go back, but I don't want to make myself vulnerable to manipulation like the right-wing. Jesus is just a gimmick for them.

After Islam came the teachings of Baha'u'llah. He was born in Iran and was imprisoned for over 40 years for his beliefs. I was raised Roman Catholic in Minnesota and when I found this religion it was like everything that I felt religion should be was in the Baha'i Faith. I think this link will give you many different options to explore. http://www.manvell.org.uk/

After Islam came the teachings of Baha'u'llah. He was born in Iran and was imprisoned for over 40 years for his beliefs. I was raised Roman Catholic in Minnesota and when I found this religion it was like everything that I felt religion should be was in the Baha'i Faith. I think this link will give you many different options to explore. http://www.manvell.org.uk/

Also - perhaps worthy of note to Christians...

Baha'u'llah actually matches several of the requirements for Messiah (as laid out in the Old Testament) much better than Jesus did.

Also - perhaps worthy of note to Christians...

Baha'u'llah actually matches several of the requirements for Messiah (as laid out in the Old Testament) much better than Jesus did.

Boy did you ever nail that one, right on the head.:)

so what if we wander off subject from time to time? i started this thread-i dont care if people go of course for a bit. i mean if youre sitting around a table having a convo with 5 or 6 people, sometimes the subject changes right?

And the main thread debate continues around the 'haircut' talk, anyway...

Boy did you ever nail that one, right on the head.:)

I may be a Godless Heathen, but I at least try to be equally Godless to all traditions! :)

Some of the hard-line christians might do well to look into the Baha'i faith. It could be an eye-opener for them.

I was thinking about Islam for a while because I think, minus the misogynism, that it's a beautiful religion.

Islam has no misogynism. Certain people have, from time to time, misinterpreted Qur'an to mean women are to be subservient, but this is not true. The Qur'an states that the greatest of men are those who are the most respectful to their mothers, wives and daughters.

Women are extremely important and hold a high place in Islam. It is Christianity - not by Jesus, but by Paul - that says women cannot speak in the churches and must be subjugate to their husbands.

Islam has no misogynism. Certain people have, from time to time, misinterpreted Qur'an to mean women are to be subservient, but this is not true. The Qur'an states that the greatest of men are those who are the most respectful to their mothers, wives and daughters.

Women are extremely important and hold a high place in Islam. It is Christianity - not by Jesus, but by Paul - that says women cannot speak in the churches and must be subjugate to their husbands.

They should just be done with it, and call the whole religion Paulianity, or something... since the basic teachings of Jesus are so firmly buried now, in the weird twisted house that Paul built.

They should just be done with it, and call the whole religion Paulianity, or something... since the basic teachings of Jesus are so firmly buried now, in the weird twisted house that Paul built.

Fortunately, the teachings of Jesus (Isa) are alive and well in the Qur'an. :)

A lot of threads are about specific religions I've noticed.....so this one can be about any and all of them. I dont know a whole lot about most religions, but I've enjoyed learning from so many different people here on NS. What are your beliefs or disbeliefs? I myself struggle with my sprituality often. I cant help but think I'm not alone....

I was baptised into the church of Scotland (protestant), my father was a church elder, my mother also heavily involved and I went up until I was about 14.
I enjoyed it at our church, we had bible class and youth groups and frequent trips away with the minister and his wife to other church groups around the country but....................
When I reached the age of around 12/13 I began to question things, at first to myself and then vocally to my minister.
He couldn't answer my questions, not with anything that made sense to me anyway. He kept saying that free will was the reason for all that was wrong in the world.
I reasoned that if god was as good as he was supposed to be he would intervene or would have balked at giving man free will in the first place, thus eradicating wars and killing (Naive of me I know, but I was only a young lad).

As time went on I began to realise that religion was not for me, I just couldn't believe in something that had no physical proof of existance. I know people will say that gravity and air are things you cant see but exist non the less, but although I can't see them I know they exist because I am still breathing and still clinging to the planets surface so they are easy to accept as physical facts. It would take me, however, an enormous leap of faith to believe in God in the same way.

Indeed, from what I can gather, wakes were an opportunity for the dead to 'wake up'...

Vampirism is scary in a fairytale fashion.. premature burial is scary in a "god, I never want to wake up in a wooden box, buried under six feet of soil" fashion.

And that, is why I'll be cremated. :)

Not really sure about vampires, its the flesh-eating zombies I'm worried about.

Fortunately, the teachings of Jesus (Isa) are alive and well in the Qur'an. :)

And, the scary thing is... most Christians don't even know that Islam comes from the same root - and shares the same teachings (and even texts) as their own faith.

Perhaps that's deliberate... how could someone like Bush easily stir up bad feeling against Islam, if the average Christian knew that they all worship the same god, have the same prophets, etc.

Not really sure about vampires, its the flesh-eating zombies I'm worried about.
Another good reason for cremation... unless, of course, flesh-eating zombies occassionally like their meat 'well-done'.

I am an atheist...

Although, I suppose I could be deemed an agnostic, at least intellectually... I am fully aware that my belief (lack of belief is still a belief) may be incorrect... And I refuse to let myself know that I am correct in my non-belief... I've got to leave the door open to the possiblity of a God and all the related trappings...

However, "spiritually", I am about as atheistic as you can get... I do not believe in any of it... No God, no Satan, no Heaven, no Hell... No life after death, no intelligent Creation, etc, etc... I do not believe that Jesus came down to die for our sins (in fact, I don't see what it accomplished, or why God felt that it was necessary... especially when He is the one making the rules... but, meh) I can't deny that Jesus existed historically, but I don't think that he was God's son, or that his death meant anything important to mankind...

Note that I'm not just anti-Christian, even though most of my examples above involve Christian beliefs... I have equal disbelief for all other religions... I just know more about Christian beliefs, since it's the vastly prevailing one in this country...

Anyways, to sum it up, I'm definitely a non-believer... And I also realize that non-belief lies almost as much on faith as belief does... So, I'd consider it a "religion" of sorts...

Now, how do I view religion outside of that? Well, I agree with most of the rules, and live by them... But only because true morals all boil down to the Golden Rule of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"... I try to treat everyone as I would like to be treated... All other rules fall into place... You don't need some book to tell you these things...

I see most religions as nothing but security blankets... I mean no offense by this, but in my eyes, they come down to a way to make yourself feel better about things in life that you can't control...

Death? No need to worry, because there is an eternal afterlife where you can be with your deceased family and friends...

Got problems in life? Well, God will help you...

Don't know how to act? Follow these rules...

Etc, etc...

I personally don't feel a need for that sort of comfort and guidance... So I really have no use for belief...

I also take great issue with the obvious hypocrisy of most religions and those who claim to follow them, especially Christianity... And from my (limited) readings of the Bible, this hypocrisy I see isn't just something done in the name of the Lord by people who are abusing His Word (which is incredibly prevalent by itself), but by the Lord Himself... God doesn't seem to be the omnibenevolent guy He is made out to be... In fact, the further I read into the Book, the lower my esteem of Christanity becomes... The Bible isn't a good selling point to us non-believers...lol

And on top of all of that, I have no desire to be subservient to anyone, including my "maker"... Why should I worship Him? More importantly, why would He want to be worshipped? That makes no sense... Is God that egotistical? Sure, thanks for putting us here and whatnot, but do I really need to bow to you for every little thing for my entire life?

But with all of that said, I'm extremely tolerant... I don't care what others hold in their hearts and in their places of worship, just like I don't care what others are doing in their bedrooms... As long as it isn't hurting anyone, no one needs to worry about it...

One thing I feel a need to mention here, is that my lack of belief doesn't stem from some sort of "sour grapes" or anything... I've had a relatively damn good life, and therefore have nothing to hold against God... In fact, I've been so "blessed", that I should be thankful to God... I just don't believe He exists, so there's no one to credit with my good life...

I also have a pretty large supply of religious influence around me... Most of my extended family is religious... My grandmother is in church more than she is at home (or so it seems)... She's a Sunday School teacher, member of the choir, etc, etc... All of my aunts and uncles are religious as well (in fact, an uncle of mine works for a church)...

But, luckily for me, my mother is more agnostic than anything and my father is a believer, since he was raised that way, but he doesn't really emphasize it, so we've never had a religious household... I've been to church plenty of times with my grandma and such (mostly when I was younger), but my parents have never forced me into it, since they don't go themselves...

And perhaps that's the crucial element of my non-belief... After all, belief is usually only so strong because it is taught and ingrained by upbringing... My upbringing didn't include it, so I now have no belief... But even though that sounds like a likely cause, I still like to think that my non-belief has been my choice, more than just what I was "dealt"... Especially since I'm aware of alternatives, but have no desire to pursue them...

And finally, an interesting point that comes to mind is that I've always had a desire for this world to be something more... Reality is damn boring... I want the supernatural (including religious beliefs, and other things like magic, ghosts, psychics, etc) to exist, but I can't bring myself to believe that it does... So in a way, I do want to be a believer, because it would open so many doors into spicing up this humdrum existence...but I still can't accept it...

So, there you have it, in a very large nutshell...lol

And, the scary thing is... most Christians don't even know that Islam comes from the same root - and shares the same teachings (and even texts) as their own faith.


Sadly, a lot of Muslims are beginning to forget this as well - especially in the poorer Muslim countries where global communication isn't readily available. Since the dissolution of the Caliphate in the 1920s, there has been no central body who's job it is to make proclamations on behalf of the Islamic world.

What that has led to is a bunch of splinter cells cropping up (like al Qaeda, etc) who accept someone's Qur'anic authority even though they are not Caliph and even when this self-proclaimed Caliph tells them to go blow up school children in the name of Allah.

In truth, according to Qur'an, there is only one way to be Muslim. "Branches" of Islam are not permitted. Nowadays, though, there are a few branches out there and it's creating all kinds of havoc.

Not really sure about vampires, its the flesh-eating zombies I'm worried about.

Blimey! *gasps*

i have a religion, but it isn't very religious. basically i decided that if there was a god there would have to be a race of gods, but if there were why wouldn't they do anything? so i decided that there must not be any god. also, i believe in reincarnation. you always hear about these people that go to hypnotists and they remember somethign that they have never gone through, and they know things about people who have died that they couldn't know. well my beliefs on reincarnation are a little bit different than most people's, as far as i know. I believe that you are reincarnated until you become aware of this and all of you past lives. at this time you become a god-like being and you create and destroy anything at will.

whee, i get to reply right after i reply, i was reading this backwards so some of it didn't make sense at the time. LONG HAIR IS AWESOME! mine isn't short but i wish ii were allowed to grow it longer

Fortunately, the teachings of Jesus (Isa) are alive and well in the Qur'an. :)

And now the Teachings of Jesus and Mohammed have Returned with the Message of Baha'u'llah and thousands of his followers were persecuted in Iran (Pesia) and still are, for their beliefs. But the Faith persisted and eventually spread around the world.

I believe in God... He's up there (Frowning) at the world right now...
but, I don't believe in any organized religion. For me going to church day after day saying the same prayers that are said day after day, that were wrote years ago by someone else.. and dropping money in the collection plate doesn't make any sence at all. I've spent time in empty churches in Greece and Italy and they are beautiful and I can feel God there...but, I feel closest to him sitting out in nature some where with the sun warming my heart and soul.

I do believe churches and organized religions are great for some people... just NOTME.

For me going to church day after day saying the same prayers that are said day after day, that were wrote years ago by someone else..

Okie dokie ... and bear with me here a moment ... what if that's what God *wants* you to do?

One of my favorite quotes:

"To hear some people tell it, you'd think the world was divided into Christians and blasphemous heathens. I think I'll go to my BH Anonymous meeting now..."

I count myself a charismatic/evangelical Jesus Freak. Makes the most sense of everything that I've come across so far.

Sadly, a lot of Muslims are beginning to forget this as well - especially in the poorer Muslim countries where global communication isn't readily available. Since the dissolution of the Caliphate in the 1920s, there has been no central body who's job it is to make proclamations on behalf of the Islamic world.

What that has led to is a bunch of splinter cells cropping up (like al Qaeda, etc) who accept someone's Qur'anic authority even though they are not Caliph and even when this self-proclaimed Caliph tells them to go blow up school children in the name of Allah.

In truth, according to Qur'an, there is only one way to be Muslim. "Branches" of Islam are not permitted. Nowadays, though, there are a few branches out there and it's creating all kinds of havoc.

Brings to mind the Taliban (which, I believe, translates literally as 'students')... students with no (real) teacher...

And, of course, back in the days of yore, Moslem brother HAD TO live shoulder to shoulder with Moslem brother (I believe THAT is why Mamalukes were first commisioned... since they weren't 'Moslems', so they could be used by one faction to 'quietly' cause problems for another faction).

And, of course, back in the days of yore, Moslem brother HAD TO live shoulder to shoulder with Moslem brother (I believe THAT is why Mamalukes were first commisioned... since they weren't 'Moslems', so they could be used by one faction to 'quietly' cause problems for another faction).

Nod. We even commemorate the idea of shoulder to shoulder in the Mosque. If you've ever seen salat (the 5 daily prayers), it's quite the experience. Even if there are only three people in a massive room, they must stand shoulder to shoulder before beginning. It's quite beautiful really.

Anyway ... yeah ... mamalukes ... if nothing else, at least it was quiet and internal. None of this flying planes into buildings and blowing up schoolbus business.

Sadly, a lot of Muslims are beginning to forget this as well - especially in the poorer Muslim countries where global communication isn't readily available. Since the dissolution of the Caliphate in the 1920s, there has been no central body who's job it is to make proclamations on behalf of the Islamic world.

What that has led to is a bunch of splinter cells cropping up (like al Qaeda, etc) who accept someone's Qur'anic authority even though they are not Caliph and even when this self-proclaimed Caliph tells them to go blow up school children in the name of Allah.

In truth, according to Qur'an, there is only one way to be Muslim. "Branches" of Islam are not permitted. Nowadays, though, there are a few branches out there and it's creating all kinds of havoc.

I'm not trying to be picky here, but aren't there thousands of Islamic branches?

Nod. We even commemorate the idea of shoulder to shoulder in the Mosque. If you've ever seen salat (the 5 daily prayers), it's quite the experience. Even if there are only three people in a massive room, they must stand shoulder to shoulder before beginning. It's quite beautiful really.

Anyway ... yeah ... mamalukes ... if nothing else, at least it was quiet and internal. None of this flying planes into buildings and blowing up schoolbus business.

I wonder... it's one of my 'pet' theories, that there is a maximum practical size to religions, much as there is for governments.

All of the big monotheisms seem to have exceeded theirs...

I'm not trying to be picky here, but aren't there thousands of Islamic branches?

Nah. Technically 10, but 2 no longer exist and 2 are not recognized as Muslim. So, in reality, 6.

Sunni - The majority. Over a billion of them. The Sunni way has remained unchanged since Muhammed(pbuh). Generally liberal.

Shiite - About 100 million of them, generaly in Iran, Iraq and Palestine. More orthodox and fundamental. Believes in the 12 infallible "Imans" (sort of like Popes) who were supposed to be descendants of Ali. The 12th went into hiding in 940, and he will emerge later to rule the world as "Mahdi" ("Messiah"). The "Ayatollah Khomeini" claimed that he was a descendant of the 7th Iman, and hence the rightful ruler of the Shiites.

Kharijitis* - The word means "those who go out", that is, seceders. They appeared as a separate group after the Battle of Siffin when Ali submitted his conflict with Mu'awiyah to arbitration. Although his followers had unanimously influenced him into this course of action, a section broke away afterwards, claiming that no caliph of Allah should submit the cause of God to the discretion of man. This group thus became the nucleus of the Kharijite movement in Islam, a dogmatic and fanatical sect which plagued Iraq for many years.

Wahhabi - A small group founded by al-Wahhab in the eighteenth century, but it was the primary force in the creation of the state of Saudi Arabia in 1932, the country of the cities of Mecca and Medina, and from them, the Wahhabi have influenced Muslims throughout the world who go into the pilgrimage to Mecca. They are the Puritans of the Muslims, with the most strict, severely enforced moral standard of conduct, and their call for a pure Islam regulated by a literal interpretation of the Koran.

Ismailis (divided into 2 factions)

1] Druze - About 700,000, believe that the Fatimid leader al-Hakim of Egypt was God.

2] Assassins* (hashashins) - used the drug hashish to get excited, and became famous for their practice of seizing Crusader forts and assassinating Christians. Today, known as "Khojas" or "Mawlas".

Sufi - It is a mystic group responsible for large scale conversion of Hindus and Africans into Islam. The greatest of the Sufi poets is "Meluana Celadin Rumi" (1207-73), from Turkey, whose work, "Masvani", is considered second only to the Koran, and it was Rumi who advocated and influenced the development of the "whirling dervishes", twirl dancing around the master, as a means of achieving oneness with God... it requires 1,001 hours to master the dance, once secret, now performed openly.

Baha'ism* - A religion founded by "Baha' U'llah" ("Mirza Husayn Ali") in 1863 in Iran with the desire "to unite mankind into one religion kingdom". Baha' claimed to be the "Madhi" ("Messiah") expected by Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists.

Nation of Islam* - Started by Timothy Drew in 1913, and founded by Wallace Fard Muhammad, who established a mosque in Detroit in 1931, and claimed to be Allah incarnated.

* No longer exists.
* Not considered Muslim as it recognizes a prophet after Muhammed. For the Muslims, it is a heresy to have another prophet after Muhammad. Baha'i stands on its own.
* Not considered Muslim because it preaches hatred and racial intolerance. Muslims refer to this as "Farrakhanism".

Thanks for your reply on my question. Were you born Muslim?

Thanks for your reply on my question. Were you born Muslim?

No, I embraced Islam on November 29, 2004.

Technically, though, nobody is born Muslim. Everyone must decide for themselves whether or not to submit to Allah. Submission to Allah being forced by parents is false submission and, thus, is not Muslim.

No, I embraced Islam on November 29, 2004.

Technically, though, nobody is born Muslim. Everyone must decide for themselves whether or not to submit to Allah. Submission to Allah being forced by parents is false submission and, thus, is not Muslim.

I see in your earlier post about sect of Islam that Bahaism was listed. As, I am sure you are well aware the Baha'i Faith is not a sect of Islam but rather a independent religion. Do you know much about Baha'i?

I see in your earlier post about sect of Islam that Bahaism was listed. As, I am sure you are well aware the Baha'i Faith is not a sect of Islam but rather a independent religion. Do you know much about Baha'i?

I mentioned in the * portion about that. Many consider it to be a sect of Islam, much like many people consider Christianity to be a sect of Judaism (hint: it isn't), so I included it on the list with a footnote.

I mentioned in the * portion about that. Many consider it to be a sect of Islam, much like many people consider Christianity to be a sect of Judaism (hint: it isn't), so I included it on the list with a footnote.


Yes, I understand about Christianity not being a sect of Judaism. I have been a Baha'i for several years. My background is Catholic. I was always troubled by the Christian lack of understanding about other religions and unwillingness to accept who comes after their Messenger. I had problems with the very real racism in Christianity, American society and then I found Baha'u'llah. It made perfect sense to me from the start.