NationStates Jolt Archive


An Open Letter to The Holy Empire of Jeff-O-Matica (other's throughts welcomed)

Tolona
26-12-2004, 23:30
This is being posted here to compensate for the fact that we have been banned from sending telegrams to Jeff-O-Matica.

Hi,

First, that thread was about communism as a positive method of government. It is not that. Second, there is no comparison between Cuba and its free island neighbors. Of course, Haiti is just as bad as Cuba because of the level of corruption.

Obviously, you have not visited Cuba or Miami lately. You should speak to the people who live in Cuba (and those who escaped). Everyone except the elite few who are Fidel's friendly relatives abhor the conditions there. Rampant poverty makes life in Cuba the pits, and there is no freedom of expression.

Regardless of from whence the stipends flow, the people in free Caribbean countries are better off than the people in Cuba, where citizens are executed for expressing dissenting opinions from Fidel Castro.

Communism is a scam. Only simple-minded fools fall for the trickery. Democracy works. Capitalism is great! There is no "great divide" between rural and urban areas of democratic countries. Your vague statement shows no basis in fact.

Please do not bother sending me telegrams. Such clap-trap is unworthy of my review.

Sincerely,
the leader of The Holy Empire of Jeff-O-Matica

Dear Jeff,

You have obviously done very little research on the subject. Spending nothing more than a few minutes at the CIA World Factbook can prove you wrong:

Cuba’s Unemployemnt Rate: 2.9%
Cuba’s Literacy Rate: 97% (<-- an amazing feat brought about by the Communist regimes policies)
Cuba’s real GDP Growth Rate: 2.6% (despite being embargoed by the world’s largest economy)
Cuba’s Life Expectancy: 77.04 years
Cuba’s HIV/AIDs prevalence rate: >.01%
Cuba’s Migration Rate: 1.58 emigrants per 1,000 people
Cuba’s Infant mortality rate:
total: 6.45 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 7.25 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 5.6 deaths/1,000 live births (2004 est.)


Compare this with everyone’s favorite vacation spot: The Bahama’s. (Note: The Bahama’s only gained independence from the UK in 1973. Cuba suffered for years under the corrupt, dictatorial Batista regime – as such, it received such benefits as not having to provide for its own defense, having a better infrastructure [schools, roads, hospitals, etc.])



Bahama’s migration rate: 2.2 emigrants per 1,000 people (<--- Yes, fewer people are leaving Cuba than the Capitalist nation of the Bahama’s)
Bahama’s infant mortality rate:
total: 25.7 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 31.73 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 19.55 deaths/1,000 live births (2004 est.) (note that Cuba’s mortality rate is much lower)
HIV/AIDs prevalence rate: 3% (Cuba, again, is superior)
Literacy: 95.6% (Cuba, again, is superior)
Real GDP Growth Rate: 0% (Cuba, with their “backward socialist policies”, again wins!)
Unemployment rate: 6.9% (again, Cuba wins, by 4 whole percentage points!)
Life expectancy: 65.63 years (Cuba is superior by about 12 years)

Etc. I challenge you to find a single nation in the Caribbean that can beat Cuba on these stats, remember, you said: “Rampant poverty makes life in Cuba the pits, and there is no freedom of expression.” – even though, obviously, Cuba has far less poverty than it’s neighbors.


where citizens are executed for expressing dissenting opinions from Fidel Castro.

Yes, who doesn’t remember when Castro, in 2003, came under fire from Amnesty Internation for executing 3 men who hijacked a ferry. 3 men. The USA executed: 65. How many did the damn, nasty, PRC execute (you know, the People’s Republic of China, the commie main land of Chian)? 64. Despite having four times the population of America they executed roughly the same amount. There goes you’re “theory” (aka, uneducated, philistine view based on absolutely no research or effort beyond regurgitating some of the views you remember others saying) of those who express disapproval of Castro’s regime being shot.

Regarding all those “political prisoners” – you do realize that Castro’s regime is a HUGE improvement over the Batista regime, correct? Not only that but you do realize that, under the Alien and Sedition Act (enacted in the early 20th century, if memory serves me correct), people can be imprisoned in the USA for the exact thing you are criticizing Castro for?!? Also, remember those people who were arrested, sent to solitary confinement for months, and were refused their right to know what crime they committed, refused the right to council, etc? The thing is, you don’t need to “remember” because it is still continuing! Woah – the USA is doing the same thing as the evil commies!

There is no "great divide" between rural and urban areas of democratic countries. Your vague statement shows no basis in fact.

Such research – I say so because you clearly did none. You assume that because my statement is “vague” that it isn’t (or “can’t”) be grounded in fact (a wonderful logical conclusion).

http://www.wider.unu.edu/conference/conference-2002-4/conference-2002-4-papers/david%20e.%20sahn,%20david%20c.%20stifel%20and%20stephen%20d.pdf – Just one of many such reports.

Communism is a scam. Only simple-minded fools fall for the trickery. Democracy works. Capitalism is great!

Yes, because that dumbass Einstein was a socialist! But what proof do I have other than google: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial_s&q=einstein+socialist&btnG=Search – Yes, that’s right! Also note how you can’t swing a dead cat in academia (as in “college professors”, a group of people where in PhD’s and above-average intelligence is the norm) without hitting a critic of Capitalism!

Now, please, offer a counter argument. Please, prove me, and the CIA World Factbook (and Einstein) wrong.

Any other opinions on this debate?
Superpower07
27-12-2004, 00:22
Here are my thoughts on communism

The only problem is that while everybody's standards of living increase, the way through we humans implement communism seems to cause a massive erosion of civil liberties (former USSR, China under Mao, even Cuba)
BLARGistania
27-12-2004, 00:46
Communism has both its good and bad points. The bad poitns are, obviously, the erosion of civil freedoms that come from the inevitable devlopment of military dictatorships.

I'm not sure what would happen in a pure capitalist state because that's still a hypothetical situation.

In other situation, like the floods from hurricanes in Cuba, the government does a much better job that any 'free market' set up of moving aid and getting people to safety.

As for domestic programs, communism again wins. It does a much better job over all of bringing healthcare to the people, it also does a better job of providing schools, it does a better job with worker's comp and things like social security programs.

in terms of the market, communism and capitalism are actually very nearly matched. The capitalist free market system will correct itself, eventually. It takes about 60 years for a capitalist free market to correct itself.

For commies, we have the Kynsian system. The market corrects itself within a decade because of government interference, but, you have government interference.
Buechoria
27-12-2004, 00:52
I like Socialism. It's the best of both worlds, capitalism and communism. Look at Canada - It's Socialist and it's doing great.
BLARGistania
27-12-2004, 00:54
I like Socialism. It's the best of both worlds, capitalism and communism. Look at Canada - It's Socialist and it's doing great.

So is germany ,Sweden, The Netherlands, Denmark, Spain, Italy, France, Sitzerland, . . .
Buechoria
27-12-2004, 00:59
See? The whole WORLD LOVES SOCIALSM!
Tolona
27-12-2004, 05:55
Well, I am not a Communist. I agree with Lenin, Stalin, Fidel, etc. on many points and I like many of their policies. Even demonized N. Korea has it merits.

Essentially, I agree with Communism's means (state intervention in the economy, limited democracy, etc.) but I disagree with its ends, mainly because I am against it's liberal world outlook. If a few people in Cuba want to be communist, I don't care - but when they talk about pressing it on the entire world, the same way Capitalists, Neo-Cons, Chrisitans, and other dualistic dumbasses discuss spreading their beliefs, I get very upset.
Smeagol-Gollum
27-12-2004, 06:19
Crikey,
I never knew much about Jeff-O-Matica, so I checked him out.
He's stolen our flamin' koalas.
Ya can't be fair dinkum if ya steal someone else's koalas.
Return 'em to Oz mate.
Tolona
27-12-2004, 19:30
bump
PIcaRDMPCia
27-12-2004, 19:32
Communism itself does not have a problem; it's the implimentation of it. We always try to do it way too fast, resulting in police states such as Russia.
The Empire of Jason
27-12-2004, 19:37
So is germany ,Sweden, The Netherlands, Denmark, Spain, Italy, France, Sitzerland, . . .


I'm not sure about the others, but Germany's certainly not doing well. Their unemployment rate is something around 11%. This is why most expect the Social Democrats to lose to the Christian Democrat Union (CDU) in the next German election.

And on this thread in general. Defending Castro is just...argh. Beyond wrong.
Buechoria
27-12-2004, 20:05
Jason has a point about the whole Castro thing. You can defend CUBA, but I wouldn't really defend CASTRO.
Gnomish Republics
27-12-2004, 20:22
Current Cuba is the result of Castro's policies, so it's OK to defend Castro if it's OK to defend Cuba.
Tolona
28-12-2004, 19:20
And on this thread in general. Defending Castro is just...argh. Beyond wrong.

What's wrong with defending Castro? Go to Cuba and ask the populace of their opinion - they're not in love with the man but he is the best leader in the carribean, period, and they realize that: "Better communists than the mafia or imperialists."

The only group that hates Castro are the emigrants, and guess who hates the emigrants? CUBANS! As in those who haven't betrayed their nation and people by leaving it....