NationStates Jolt Archive

Yes, I'm perfectly aware that Chellis has a very similar thread, but it's a good question that I want to ask in my case, especially since I'm quite different from Chellis.
I am quite the moral person; I believe in full equality under the law for all, regardless of anything, especially race, sex, sexual orientation, and disability.
I have always been a strong supporter of both Democracy and Social Equality, and would be more than willing to help someone in need regardless of who they are, even if they had insulted me for years.
I would never intentionally harm a person unless it was self defense or I truly believed that the sacrafice was necessary to save many, many more lives, and I have yet to see any circumstance in which that would occur.
I have always strived to be a calm, nice, and intelligent person to all, without being arrogant or a smart-ass.
Finally, I am agnostic; I must see proof before I believe in anything.

So, in what religions would I ascend to heaven or fall into hell, or their counterparts?

You'd be going to Purgatory, according to my beliefs, if you were to die tomorrow.

lets see
*flips through bible*

according to your beliefs with the christian faith you will be going to......












......







HELL

try harder next time :D

lets see
*flips through bible*

according to your beliefs with the christian faith you will be going to......












......







HELL

try harder next time :D
Please explain why, so that I have a better understanding. And that goes for everyone else as well, please. And thank you too.

Please explain why, so that I have a better understanding. And that goes for everyone else as well, please. And thank you too.

John 3:18.

Says it all.

I'm afraid that I do not have a bible in my house, so would you please write the piece here for me? Thank you.

and disability.


Yeah. Well done on your equality ideals.

According to my lack of religion you would rot.

The Dante's Inferno Test has banished you to the Seventh Level of Hell!
Here is how you matched up against all the levels:
Level Score
Purgatory (Repenting Believers) Very Low
Level 1 - Limbo (Virtuous Non-Believers) Very Low
Level 2 (Lustful) Very High
Level 3 (Gluttonous) Very High
Level 4 (Prodigal and Avaricious) Extreme
Level 5 (Wrathful and Gloomy) Extreme
Level 6 - The City of Dis (Heretics) Extreme
Level 7 (Violent) Extreme
Level 8- the Malebolge (Fraudulent, Malicious, Panderers) Extreme
Level 9 - Cocytus (Treacherous) Extreme

Take the Dante's Divine Comedy Inferno Test (http://www.4degreez.com/misc/dante-inferno-test.mv)

but that's just for me.

I'm afraid that I do not have a bible in my house, so would you please write the piece here for me? Thank you.

John 3: 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Purgatory

You have escaped damnation and made it to Purgatory, a place where the dew of repentance washes off the stain of sin and girds the spirit with humility. Through contrition, confession, and satisfaction by works of righteousness, you must make your way up the mountain. As the sins are cleansed from your soul, you will be illuminated by the Sun of Divine Grace, and you will join other souls, smiling and happy, upon the summit of this mountain. Before long you will know the joys of Paradise as you ascend to the ethereal realm of Heaven

Well, I got purgatory.

Purgatory

You have escaped damnation and made it to Purgatory, a place where the dew of repentance washes off the stain of sin and girds the spirit with humility. Through contrition, confession, and satisfaction by works of righteousness, you must make your way up the mountain. As the sins are cleansed from your soul, you will be illuminated by the Sun of Divine Grace, and you will join other souls, smiling and happy, upon the summit of this mountain. Before long you will know the joys of Paradise as you ascend to the ethereal realm of Heaven

Well, I got purgatory.

What if THIS is purgatory?

I took that test about three weeks ago and got Limbo. However, I'm asking for people's own personal beliefs, and not just for Christianity either; any other religion, such as Judaism, Islam, Wicca, or anything else you can think of, I'd like to know where I--in your opinion--stand on that as well.

What if THIS is purgatory?

Might well be....but probably not. This is life, purgatory is something you experience in death.

The wretched King Minos has decided your fate. His tale wraps around his body 8 times.
The sweet light no longer strikes against your eyes. Your shade has been banished to... the Eigth Level of Hell - the Malebolge!
Eigth Level of Hell - the Malebolge

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Many and varied sinners suffer eternally in the multi-leveled Malebolge, an ampitheatre-shapped pit of despair Wholly of stone and of an iron colour: Those guilty of fraudulence and malice; the seducers and pimps, who are whipped by horned demons; the hypocrites, who struggle to walk in lead-lined cloaks; the barraters, who are ducked in boiling pitch by demons known as the Malebranche. The simonists, wedged into stone holes, and whose feet are licked by flames, kick and writhe desperately. The magicians, diviners, fortune tellers, and panderers are all here, as are the thieves. Some wallow in human excrement. Serpents writhe and wrap around men, sometimes fusing into each other. Bodies are torn apart. When you arrive, you will want to put your hands over your ears because of the lamentations of the sinners here, who are afflicted with scabs like leprosy, and lay sick on the ground, furiously scratching their skin off with their nails. Indeed, justice divine doth smite them with its hammer.


Here is how you matched up against all the levels:
(Click on a level for more info)
Level Who are sent there? Score
Purgatory Repenting Believers Very Low
Level 1 - Limbo Virtuous Non-Believers Very Low
Level 2 Lustful Extreme
Level 3 Gluttonous High
Level 4 Prodigal and Avaricious Very High
Level 5 Wrathful and Gloomy Extreme
Level 6 - The City of Dis Heretics Extreme
Level 7 Violent Very High
Level 8- the Malebolge Fraudulent, Malicious, Panderers Extreme
Level 9 - Cocytus Treacherous Very High

Might well be....but probably not. This is life, purgatory is something you experience in death.

we might have all died and are waiting judgement

I got Limbo: I'm a virtous non-believer, according to them.

Well, I suppose it could be a lot worse. At least I get to chat with Socrates and Aristotle.

we might have all died and are waiting judgement

Have to say, I don't believe that to be true.

According to the part of the Bible I am reading, we are all going to the same place that awaits both the foolish and the wise...The Grave

People, please do not go off on a tangent; keep that discussion to another thread. I made this thread so people would answer my question, not go off on their own, please. :)

Have to say, I don't believe that to be true.


Me too, but it's an interesting thought

People, please do not go off on a tangent; keep that discussion to another thread. I made this thread so people would answer my question, not go off on their own, please. :)

PIca, i don't think i was going off topic, according to Old testament theology, it really doesn't matter if you are good or evil, wise or foolish, everyone has the same fate...The Grave. Death is after life. After life well there is a nice hole in the ground and decomposition.

People, please do not go off on a tangent; keep that discussion to another thread. I made this thread so people would answer my question, not go off on their own, please. :)


ok we each give a quick answer and the thread dies. Where do bad threads go?

The intent was to keep the thread around for quite a while and encourage a discussion of why you thought the way you did while simultaneously allowing for others to share their opinion on the question.
Nihilistic, I was actually speaking to the others and didn't see your post before I posted my post; my apologies to you.

i gots limbo,hitting it up with aristotle and socrates doesnt sound so bad.

The worst possible thing you could do is deny Jesus Christ. At this point in time, you are destined for damnation.

I'm not saying he never existed; I'm saying that without proof I cannot in good conscience believe that he is the son of God. Also, without proof I cannot believe that God even exists. I believe in the possibility, but I won't take it at face value; I need proof.

I'm not saying he never existed; I'm saying that without proof I cannot in good conscience believe that he is the son of God. Also, without proof I cannot believe that God even exists. I believe in the possibility, but I won't take it at face value; I need proof.

There is proof. It is called the Bible.

There is proof. It is called the Bible.
Which was written by man and the current Bible is the result of what was essentially a 2000 year game of Telephone. I need something concrete, not a book of myths.

To Hell, most certainly.

It might have been written by man, but God told them to write much of it. It is like the religion of Islam in a way. Allah used the angel of Gabriel to speak to Muhammed, who wrote down what Allah said.

Everyone has their different beliefs. I, as a Christian, believe that you hold your own fate in your hands. My belief can sometimes be severe, but only as severe as to who is interpreting what is written in the Bible. I hardly ever go to church, and I cuss and drive too fast and drink and yell. Yet i'll go out of my way to help my fellow brethren. "Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called". 1 Timothy 6:11b-12a

That is what I follow. The God I worship is a merciful God, let not others judge you, for He will judge us all.

In short, unless you do some really bad crap, your alright.

Pica - I agree the Bible is not proof that their God exists.

I'm Wiccan, mostly. As far as my faith / belief system is concerned you would go to the Summer Land.

Wiccans don't beleive in 'sin', "divine punishment" - we beleive that what you do comes back to you, in life, many times over - maybe so far away in time, or so altered, that you can't really recognize it - but come home to roost it does..

And as far as I personally am concerned - you can be in 'hell' right here, right now - hell is what you make it, what you choose it to be.

I beleive that the Divine ( what ever name, avatar, etc that you choose to view it as ) is all pervasive, all present, apart of everything and everything is a part of the Divine.

The Taku Skanskan ( sorry for the lack of proper diacritical marks ) of the Lakota - or the 'Force' of Star Wars...

and I do believe that you can choose to seperate yourself from that, that you can deliberately choose to step aside.- that this is where serial killers and others of that ilk come from...

The life force unchecked is cancer, the death force unbound is genocide...

It might have been written by man, but God told them to write much of it. It is like the religion of Islam in a way. Allah used the angel of Gabriel to speak to Muhammed, who wrote down what Allah said.
There is no proof of that. Just because the bible says that's what happened doesn't mean that is what happened; I could have written a history book saying Jellyfish took over Germany in 1934; we all know that didn't actually happen. I'm talking about concrete evidence that is backed up by fact, not heresay or religious myths.
It's a moot argument anyway, because the point of this thread is to hear from everyone. Thank you for sharing your opinions, ClemsonTigers.

Here are three short verses from the Writings of Baha'u'llah the Prophet founder of the Bahai Faith. It is my understanding of Baha'u'llah's writings that the afterlife is a matter of closeness to God. The farther we are from God is hell. There is no physical hell. So you will go to a spritual reunion with your Creator, as will everyone else. The difference will be in how you live your life on earth, if you live a spiritual life upon your death your soul will be "closer" to God. There is much more in Baha'u'llah's teachings. This is just my understanding. Another interesting priniciple in the Baha'i Faith is that no one individual can insist upon their own interpretation being the only correct interpretation. There are no priests or ministers who preach to the flock and tell them what Baha'u'llah meant when he said something.

I hope you enjoy.



5. O SON OF DUST!
Verily I say unto thee: Of all men the most negligent is he that disputeth idly and seeketh to advance himself over his brother. Say, O brethren! Let deeds, not words, be your adorning.

6. O SON OF EARTH!
Know, verily, the heart wherein the least remnant of envy yet lingers, shall never attain My everlasting dominion, nor inhale the sweet savors of holiness breathing from My kingdom of sanctity.

7. O SON OF LOVE!
Thou art but one step away from the glorious heights above and from the celestial tree of love. Take thou one pace and with the next advance into the immortal realm and enter the pavilion of eternity. Give ear then to that which hath been revealed by the pen of glory.

There is no proof of that. Just because the bible says that's what happened doesn't mean that is what happened; I could have written a history book saying Jellyfish took over Germany in 1934; we all know that didn't actually happen. I'm talking about concrete evidence that is backed up by fact, not heresay or religious myths.
It's a moot argument anyway, because the point of this thread is to hear from everyone. Thank you for sharing your opinions, ClemsonTigers.

To me the real proof of who Christ is is not some physical document or artifact found or not found in Israel, but in the fact that after all these years His words still have the power to change people, to make them new. The words of Christ are a powerful tool that have been used for both good and evil and surely God will judge those who misused the words of His Messenger.

Purgatory

You have escaped damnation and made it to Purgatory, a place where the dew of repentance washes off the stain of sin and girds the spirit with humility. Through contrition, confession, and satisfaction by works of righteousness, you must make your way up the mountain. As the sins are cleansed from your soul, you will be illuminated by the Sun of Divine Grace, and you will join other souls, smiling and happy, upon the summit of this mountain. Before long you will know the joys of Paradise as you ascend to the ethereal realm of Heaven

Well, I got purgatory.

I have never seen in the bible where it says anything about purgatory...and i have read through it several times....

When you are at a party , do you sit there and just wonder whats going to happen after the party? I say while we are living life now, we shouldn't concern ourselves with what is coming afterwards...we should all party like its 1999!...or whatever...Life is about having a good time right now, not worrying about whether you gots the tickets to enter heaven or hell

Sixth Level of Hell - The City of Dis

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You approach Satan's wretched city where you behold a wide plain surrounded by iron walls. Before you are fields full of distress and torment terrible. Burning tombs are littered about the landscape. Inside these flaming sepulchers suffer the heretics, failing to believe in God and the afterlife, who make themselves audible by doleful sighs. You will join the wicked that lie here, and will be offered no respite. The three infernal Furies stained with blood, with limbs of women and hair of serpents, dwell in this circle of Hell.

It might have been written by man, but God told them to write much of it. It is like the religion of Islam in a way. Allah used the angel of Gabriel to speak to Muhammed, who wrote down what Allah said.
The angel Gabriel is not a messenger to demons.

To me the real proof of who Christ is is not some physical document or artifact found or not found in Israel, but in the fact that after all these years His words still have the power to change people, to make them new. The words of Christ are a powerful tool that have been used for both good and evil and surely God will judge those who misused the words of His Messenger.
All that says is that he was a great speaker and managed to incure a cult following that arose into an organized religion; still isn't proof that he was the son of God.
And Defensor Fidei, I did not want your brand of racist bigotry in this thread. Do not post in this thread again.

If you want, you can go to my unorganized religion of mondoulo, where you go to a floating island called mondo where all people do is drink beer and have 3(+) ways.

Did anyone think that maybe, after all, we ARE in hell? I mean, there's war, suffering, and no matter what good things happen there's always a bad aspect to it.

:eek:

PIcaRDMPCia, the Bible was not basically telephone played over a series of 2000 years. Or I should say the Old Testament was not. I have not been taught/researched about the New Testament as well as I would like. As for the Old Testament, the Jeeews were great scholars and copiers. E.G. if a scholar made 3 or more mistakes on a scroll he was copying, he trashed it. You must comprehend; these scholars took their job excruciatingly serious. If you think that maybe some scholars decided to ..."ignore" there multiple mistakes, look into the Dead Sea Scrolls. If my memory serves me right, they were found in the early 50s, some of the scrolls were also books in the internationally printed Bible, when translated these scrolls were exactly the same as the books of the internationally printed bible. I am not about to preach, bible-thump, or condemn you. My God doesn't want me to do that. But to be completely honest, you would go to hell despite the life you live. It seems like a good life, but God wants more, expects more, and desires more.

Also, Jesus Christ (a.k.a. Emmanuel, Jehovah, or The (only) Son of God), did not incur a cult, he created a sect (see http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sect for sect and http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cult for cult). His purpose was actually to transfer the Jewish religion into what we now know as the Christian religion (Seventh Day Adventist, Mormons, "Jehovah" Witnesses are not considered Christians). That is how I understand it to be. He was not charismatic in any way, it annoys me but I have been looking for the verse that says that he was (paraphrased) "ugly, and unwanted" to everyone around him. If someone like that can start something like what he did, it was not a cult.

In conclusion, my parents want me off the comp (freaking commies), but I have some last scatter-brained things to say. (1) I would suggest you look up Josh McDowell, he set out to disprove and show Christianity for the fake that (he thought) it was, and failed. In fact he converted from being an atheist/agnostic. (2) Jesus fulfilled 330 prophecies and is talked about in the Old Testament. E.G. Psalm 22. (3) The true Christian religion is hard to find, if you ask me. Christian = Little Jesus. But when you do find those "Little Jesus" churches that are true and what Elohim (God in three) meant to be, you will find a great place. (4) I worked really hard on this, it sucks that everyone and his mother is going to tear my work up and show my faults, but that is good because it will make me seek out the absolute truths. Again, I keep looking for a verse that I cannot find. It is in the New Testament, and exhorts the believers to daily find evidence for the belief in the saving grace and absolute truth and power of Jesus Christ.

:eek:

PIcaRDMPCia, the Bible was not basically telephone played over a series of 2000 years. Or I should say the Old Testament was not.
*snip*.
Oh, yes it is. True, the Old Testmemant was never altered much due to the fact that it's also the Jewish Torah, but the rest of the bible has been written and rewritten over and over in so many different ways. That's what I meant. Just go into a bookstore and ask to see a Bible; you'll find a dozen different versions. It's not the same one every time, so it is completely subjective and is dismissable completely.

All that says is that he was a great speaker and managed to incure a cult following that arose into an organized religion; still isn't proof that he was the son of God.
And Defensor Fidei, I did not want your brand of racist bigotry in this thread. Do not post in this thread again.

I think you are right that the ability of Christ's words to change people is not proof that Christ is the Son of God (I don't believe that He is the physical Son of God) but after 2K years it is proof of something more than his speaking ability. Many people become upset with God because people behave badly. I am sorry but this seems terribly unfair. If everyone was to instantly recognize the true reality of the Prophets , Messengers, (Moses, Christ, Buddha, Mohammed, Abraham, Baha'u'llah to name a few) how could the sincerity of souls be judged. So the They must come in a veiled human form. The followers of the previous Prophet typically do not recognize the new Prophet and a great struggle ensues.

I gotta get to church, and today is gonna be a busy day so I'll just throw this out.
(1) I fervently (but respectfully) disagree with Good Thoughts. Jesus was not a Prophet; He fulfilled 330 (or 333 not sure what my handwriting says exactly) prophecies. Sixty of these prophecies were major ones. The probability of fulfilling 8 of these prophecies in one person is 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000.

(2) Yes PIcaRDMPCia (Can I call you Picard?). There are many versions of the Bible out there, but none should disagree with each other. The King James Version (the oldest translation of the Septuagint {which was the Greek translation of the Tora}) does not disagree with the New International Version. The Message is actually a paraphrase of the Bible (probably of a KJV or NIV Bible) but it still has not discontinuity with the other versions of internationally sold Bibles.

- Good, you don’t disagree with the Old Testament that much-

(2a) The New Testament has 24,633 surviving manuscripts. And without the use of these manuscripts and just using the early works of church fathers and scholars (i.e. sermons and letters) you can recreate all but eleven verses of the New Testament. As I understand it Picard, we still have many records of Christian sermons preached in the early days after Christ. These sermons not only coincide with what (true) Christianity teaches today, but they also wrote out the verses they used from what was the New Testament then. E.G. If a church leader wanted to speak on victory in Christ, he would use Paul’s letter to the Romans, he copied these verses onto his paper that had the sermon….and I have gtg. Again, I weep at the thought of what I presented being disproved and torn apart and thrown to the dogs.

I gotta get to church, and today is gonna be a busy day so I'll just throw this out.
(1) I fervently (but respectfully) disagree with Good Thoughts. Jesus was not a Prophet; He fulfilled 330 (or 333 not sure what my handwriting says exactly) prophecies. Sixty of these prophecies were major ones. The probability of fulfilling 8 of these prophecies in one person is 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000.

(2) Yes PIcaRDMPCia (Can I call you Picard?). There are many versions of the Bible out there, but none should disagree with each other. The King James Version (the oldest translation of the Septuagint {which was the Greek translation of the Tora}) does not disagree with the New International Version. The Message is actually a paraphrase of the Bible (probably of a KJV or NIV Bible) but it still has not discontinuity with the other versions of internationally sold Bibles.

- Good, you don’t disagree with the Old Testament that much-

(2a) The New Testament has 24,633 surviving manuscripts. And without the use of these manuscripts and just using the early works of church fathers and scholars (i.e. sermons and letters) you can recreate all but eleven verses of the New Testament. As I understand it Picard, we still have many records of Christian sermons preached in the early days after Christ. These sermons not only coincide with what (true) Christianity teaches today, but they also wrote out the verses they used from what was the New Testament then. E.G. If a church leader wanted to speak on victory in Christ, he would use Paul’s letter to the Romans, he copied these verses onto his paper that had the sermon….and I have gtg. Again, I weep at the thought of what I presented being disproved and torn apart and thrown to the dogs.

24,633 surviving manuscripts?...I think you should go back and ponder what you just said or else I am going to take apart your claims piece by piece and make you eat them...is that fair enough?

Yes, I'm perfectly aware that Chellis has a very similar thread, but it's a good question that I want to ask in my case, especially since I'm quite different from Chellis.
I am quite the moral person; I believe in full equality under the law for all, regardless of anything, especially race, sex, sexual orientation, and disability.
I have always been a strong supporter of both Democracy and Social Equality, and would be more than willing to help someone in need regardless of who they are, even if they had insulted me for years.
I would never intentionally harm a person unless it was self defense or I truly believed that the sacrafice was necessary to save many, many more lives, and I have yet to see any circumstance in which that would occur.
I have always strived to be a calm, nice, and intelligent person to all, without being arrogant or a smart-ass.
Finally, I am agnostic; I must see proof before I believe in anything.

So, in what religions would I ascend to heaven or fall into hell, or their counterparts?

Well how are you toward others? Morally ala sex, drugs, the law are you good?
Do you actively speak against Heavenly Father (the church isn't the same as God so remember the difference)
Are you insulting toward those of faith? Again part of how you treat others. Believing and action are two different things dude.

But till I get more information its hard to say.
Both of these occur before the next resurrection
Well granted you know little of Christ so you'd be preached in Paradise of him till you chose to accept him or till next resurrection. Comforted, relaxed, blissful. Great
However, if you break laws, steal, and altogether a bad person you might be sent to Outer Darkness for a while. No comfort, never relaxed, not a good feeling really.

After that you are sorted to the Glory you deserve if you deserve the glory.
Sea Turtle is the thing to remember:

Celestrial: is for those who are married in the temple. Also Holy Prophets who never stayed I think. Jesus and Heavenly Father meet the requirements of course.
Terestrial: Those who lived good moral lives, but never married in temple.

Telestrial: are murders, raptist, theives without knowledge of christ. Very easy to reach here. Also never got full knowledge of Heavenly Father and blasphemied against the Spirit (ala Judas)

Hell: Reserved for those who got full knowledge of Heavenly Father and blasphemied against the Spirit. Also those who rebelled against Heaven in the beginning ala Satan's spirits that fought war in Heaven.

So I'd say you'd get Terestrial but if you a law breaking whio is never sorry for it Teletrial

[QUOTE=The Doors Corporation]I gotta get to church, and today is gonna be a busy day so I'll just throw this out.
(1) I fervently (but respectfully) disagree with Good Thoughts. Jesus was not a Prophet; He fulfilled 330 (or 333 not sure what my handwriting says exactly) prophecies. Sixty of these prophecies were major ones. The probability of fulfilling 8 of these prophecies in one person is 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000.

If you don't believe that Jesus was a Prophet then would you say that he is the Mouthpiece of God? I wonder if we don't just have different defintions of the word Prophet? I have never tried to count the prophecies that Jesus has fulfilled and I don't disagree with your statement. I am quite certain that Jesus fulfilled all of the prophesies that he was destined to fulfill.

We will never know what happened before tapes and videos were invented. For all we know, Napoleon, Columbus, George Washington, Sitting Bull, the Roman Empire, Greeks, Hernando Cortez, King George, etc. might have never existed.

We will never know in this lifetime if God is real. There are those who see angels and hear the voice of God, and those are the lucky ones who will most likely end up in Heaven as they are divine. I can only hope to one day hear my Lord speak to me and receive His blessings.

It is called faith. You do not have to believe in Jesus Christ our Saviour. You can call Him a fake, a cult-starter, a sect-starter, a charismatic fool, whatever you would like.

But I call Him Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Son of God, our Saviour, the One who died for our sins so we could repent just by asking for it instead of having to sacrifice animals and such in the days of the Old Testament.

That is my beliefs. If you don't like it, I really don't care. Frankly, I'm sick of all the debating and being persecuted and made fun of because of my beliefs.

24,633 surviving manuscripts?...I think you should go back and ponder what you just said or else I am going to take apart your claims piece by piece and make you eat them...is that fair enough?
Well, Nihilistic Beginners, this information I was given came from a lesson Josh McDowell taught on the reliability of scriptures. I have nothing else to ponder. I did not say I was scared to see my writing torn apart and stuffed down my throat; I just do not like to see hard work go to waste. So I think you should tear apart my writing so that I can find out the truth for myself, because I did all I could, now it is your turn.

Good Thoughts, I believe Jesus of Nazareth was God's Son, and that other men and women who were considered prophets after Jesus like
Baha'u'llah, Buddha, and so on were misled either by demonic intervention or misled by their own mind and ideas.

Clemson Tigers, that sucks when you are persecuted for your beliefs but it is also good, it makes you find out whether you truly do believe. But I do believe you can know whether God really exists, and I think that the three tests of historical reliability can help prove a lot of things about our past.

And actually, now that I think I about it, I have taken this thread off the course PIcaRDMPCia meant it to go. Unless he says otherwise I will go back to keeping to my own business, sorry about spoiling the thread into a discussion on the reliability of scripture PIcaRDMPCia. To answer your original question again, despite your good deeds you would go to hell.

Romans 3:23,24 -
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

John 14:6 -
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I really hope I have not been coming across as condemning, hateful, arrogant, patronizing, or with any other socially harmful attitude.

Good Thoughts, I believe Jesus of Nazareth was God's Son, and that other men and women who were considered prophets after Jesus like
Baha'u'llah, Buddha, and so on were misled either by demonic intervention or misled by their own mind and ideas.

I appreciate that you don't want to be attacked for your beliefs there is way too much of that in this world today. You have the right to believe what you want to believe. I would never want it any other way.

Just as a matter of information, I believe that Buddha walked on earth before Jesus arrived.You are correct that Baha'u'llah came after Jesus.

oh so true, Buddha did, that is shameful that I said Buddha came after...

oh so true, Buddha did, that is shameful that I said Buddha came after...

No shame intended from my pen. Hopefully none taken. If we can't have civil discourse we really are in trouble aren't we :).

First Level of Hell - Limbo

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Charon ushers you across the river Acheron, and you find yourself upon the brink of grief's abysmal valley. You are in Limbo, a place of sorrow without torment. You encounter a seven-walled castle, and within those walls you find rolling fresh meadows illuminated by the light of reason, whereabout many shades dwell. These are the virtuous pagans, the great philosophers and authors, unbaptised children, and others unfit to enter the kingdom of heaven. You share company with Caesar, Homer, Virgil, Socrates, and Aristotle. There is no punishment here, and the atmosphere is peaceful, yet sad.

In Christianity, you are probably headed that way. See you there if they're right. Or maybe I'll see you in the City of Dis, with the heretics like me.

First Level of Hell - Limbo

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Charon ushers you across the river Acheron, and you find yourself upon the brink of grief's abysmal valley. You are in Limbo, a place of sorrow without torment. You encounter a seven-walled castle, and within those walls you find rolling fresh meadows illuminated by the light of reason, whereabout many shades dwell. These are the virtuous pagans, the great philosophers and authors, unbaptised children, and others unfit to enter the kingdom of heaven. You share company with Caesar, Homer, Virgil, Socrates, and Aristotle. There is no punishment here, and the atmosphere is peaceful, yet sad.

In Christianity, you are probably headed that way. See you there if they're right. Or maybe I'll see you in the City of Dis, with the heretics like me.

If the above is meant for me. If not, oh well.

Well lets see. I am not a pagan; nor a great or not so great philospher or author. I was baptised as a baby--Catholic. I always felt that something was missing until I found Baha'u'llah. I may be unfit to enter the Kingdom of Heavan but I will let God decide that. "Judge not lest you be judged," is a truth that too many of us forget when it comes to the followers of religions we don't agree with. But thanks for your kind words.

I have never been one to be against people of faith, in terms of insulting them; I respect their faith. Simply put, however, I cannot in good conscience believe in a religion without proof of the religion's truth; I'm very much a man of proof, in that I need proof before I will believe most things. I'm not against the possibility; I just want proof before I'll accept it as fact. Also, I've never been one to use drugs at all; I am actually quite against drug use, though again I have no problem with the people who do use them; that's their choice.
Anymore opinions on me, people?

I have never been one to be against people of faith, in terms of insulting them; I respect their faith. Simply put, however, I cannot in good conscience believe in a religion without proof of the religion's truth; I'm very much a man of proof, in that I need proof before I will believe most things. I'm not against the possibility; I just want proof before I'll accept it as fact. Also, I've never been one to use drugs at all; I am actually quite against drug use, though again I have no problem with the people who do use them; that's their choice.
Anymore opinions on me, people?

Proof like beauty is often in the eye of the beholder. Read the following two paragraphs from the Baha'i Faith and tell me what you think. There is more, much, more. Enjoy.

"A subject that is essential for the comprehension of the questions that we have mentioned, and of others of which we are about to speak, so that the essence of the problems may be understood, is this: that human knowledge is of two kinds. One is the knowledge of things perceptible to the senses -- that is to say, things which the eye, or ear, or smell, or taste, or touch can perceive, which are called objective or sensible. So the sun, because it can be seen, is said to be objective; and in the same way sounds are sensible because the ear hears them; perfumes are sensible because they can be inhaled and the sense of smell perceives them; foods are sensible because the palate perceives their sweetness, sourness or saltness; heat and cold are sensible because the feelings perceive them. These are said to be sensible realities.

The other kind of human knowledge is intellectual -- that is to say, it is a reality of the intellect; it has no outward form and no place and is not perceptible to the senses. For example, the power of intellect is not sensible; none of the inner qualities of man is a sensible thing; on the contrary, they are intellectual realities. So love is a mental reality and not sensible; for this reality the ear does not hear, the eye does not see, the smell does not perceive, the taste does not discern, the touch does not feel. Even ethereal matter, the forces of which are said in physics to be heat, light, electricity and magnetism, is an intellectual reality, and is not sensible. In the same way, nature, also, in its essence is an intellectual reality and is not sensible; the human spirit is an intellectual, not sensible reality. In explaining these intellectual realities, one is obliged to express them by sensible figures because in exterior existence there is nothing that is not material. Therefore, to explain the reality of the spirit -- its condition, its station -- one is obliged to give explanations under the forms of sensible things because in the external world all that exists is sensible. For example, grief and happiness are intellectual things; when you wish to express those spiritual qualities you say: "My heart is oppressed; my heart is dilated," though the heart of man is neither oppressed nor dilated. This is an intellectual or spiritual state, to explain which you are obliged to have recourse to sensible figures. Another example: you say, "such an individual made great progress," though he is remaining in the same place; or again, "such a one's position was exalted," although, like everyone else, he walks upon the earth. This exaltation and this progress are spiritual states and intellectual realities, but to explain them you are obliged to have recourse to sensible figures because in the exterior world there is nothing that is not sensible."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 81)

due to the lackluster and commonplace living of your life you will be a shadow in the elysian fields.

due to your not progressing on the 8fold path you will be reincarnated pretty much the same as you are now

when you reach the happy hunting grounds you will not be invited into the tents of the great warriors. maybe you can hang out with the women all day.

dont even think of getting into the great halls of valhalla...

Yes, I'm perfectly aware that Chellis has a very similar thread, but it's a good question that I want to ask in my case, especially since I'm quite different from Chellis.
I am quite the moral person; I believe in full equality under the law for all, regardless of anything, especially race, sex, sexual orientation, and disability.
I have always been a strong supporter of both Democracy and Social Equality, and would be more than willing to help someone in need regardless of who they are, even if they had insulted me for years.
I would never intentionally harm a person unless it was self defense or I truly believed that the sacrafice was necessary to save many, many more lives, and I have yet to see any circumstance in which that would occur.
I have always strived to be a calm, nice, and intelligent person to all, without being arrogant or a smart-ass.
Finally, I am agnostic; I must see proof before I believe in anything.

So, in what religions would I ascend to heaven or fall into hell, or their counterparts?

Well, in my religion, everything cancels out (Second Law), so all your hard effort has been for nothing. You're going to smoke a big turd in Hell for all Eternity.