NationStates Jolt Archive

Seeing as you ignore my arguements in threads, or they simply get lost in the jumble, I have created this one thread with the arguement I was trying to give you.

Hey Fidei, I read a book about eating one's children, talking snakes, witches, magical birds spitting fire, unicorns, giants, magic, conjuring up the dead, smashing kids heads on rocks, talking donkeys, and it condones genocide! No, its no the Lord of the Rings, its the "Holy" Bible. And you still havent answered my Jesus-Mithra arguement... want me to repeat it?



Quote:
Originally Posted by The Parthians
Uhuh, Yeah. Well, Ahura Mazda told me that Jesus is a copy of an Aryan sun god called Mithra (Worshipped in Ancient Persia as Mithra and still worshipped by Hindus as Mitra). Mithra predates Christ by 1500 years and has too many similarities to your version of Mithra to make it a coincidence. Dont believe me?

Mithra, Sungod of Persia
The story of Mithra precedes the Christian fable by at least 600 years. According to Wheless, the cult of Mithra was, shortly before the Christian era, "the most popular and widely spread 'Pagan' religion of the times." Mithra has the following in common with the Christ character:

Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."52

http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

Not only that, but most of the tenets of your religion have been taken from my faith. The belief in angels and deamons, of an afterlife based on judgement of the soul dependent on the works of one's life, the belief in a savior (Messiah to Christians and Jews, Sashoyant to Zoroastrians), and the belief in apocalypse were all taken from the Zoroastrians. Your entire faith is a plagarism of three older faiths. You have stolen from the Zarathushtri (Zoroastrian) faith, from the ancient Aryan faith, and from the Jewish Torah to make a religion. Great work!

Defensor is out celebrating Holy Mass...lose this will most likely get lost in the jumble too

Like I've always said...everything was stolen from the pagans...know why? We popped up first. ^_^ And furthermore, we've survived longer, with no definitive holy text.

I worship Enlil. That makes my religion the oldest.

Like I've always said...everything was stolen from the pagans...know why? We popped up first. ^_^ And furthermore, we've survived longer, with no definitive holy text.

Your Pagan? Thats cool. Are you Asatru, I have a bunch of friends who are. I usually don't like the word pagan though since it is derogatory to all non-Christians (including myself).

The Christians also stole Christmas from other pagan religions. A tree, holy, family. Nothing to do with Christ.

The best way to get rid of another religion is to embrace it and make it your own. It makes the believers in the old religion comfortable to switch. Those cunning monotheistic people.

I worship Enlil. That makes my religion the oldest.
I think that the oldest religion is one were you don't believe in anything. ;)

Your Pagan? Thats cool. Are you Asatru?
Technically, I'm Wiccan. Yeah, I know my specific religion has only been around since the 50's -- hey, can we call ourselves 'traditional' ? lmao

I worship Enlil. That makes my religion the oldest.

I worship Enki and Utu, and we all know Enki can beat up Enlil.

I worship Enki and Utu, and we all know Enki can beat up Enlil.

Yes but Enlil is invisible and has a special hat. And one day he's going to use that to pwn Enki.

Yes but Enlil is invisible and has a special hat. And one day he's going to use that to pwn Enki.

Yea, but Enki, Utu,Inanna, and Ereshkiga will gang up and beat Enlil down.

*Is really gonna have to do something to appease the gods after this.. just knows it*

I worship Pelor.

I worship Joe Pesci.

i worship nothing, and i personally can beat up all your imaginary friends(gods) at once.




well unless any of you worship some cult leader real person, then it'll depend on physical conditioning and ninja pinchy holds and such.

I worship Joe Pesci.

i don't think i can take joe pesci, i've seen goodfellas, he looks mean.

i worship nothing, and i personally can beat up all your imaginary friends(gods) at once.




well unless any of you worship some cult leader real person, then it'll depend on physical conditioning and ninja pinchy holds and such.


As long as your moral I believe one is judged favorably at the end of life.

Yeah, well I worship Unicron. My god could kick all of your asses.

...I'm a Jew on Christmas...

Your Pagan? Thats cool. Are you Asatru, I have a bunch of friends who are. I usually don't like the word pagan though since it is derogatory to all non-Christians (including myself).

How is pagan an insult?

Just because christians have twisted it?

It just means people who don't live in the towns.. from 'paganos', "village".

Like Heathens - the people who live on the Heaths.

Christian terms to try to ostracise people who lived in rural areas, and were, therefore, more resistant to the corruption of the christian mythology.

You should wear the name Pagan with pride, since it means your religion has survived christianisation.

How is pagan an insult?

Just because christians have twisted it?

It just means people who don't live in the towns.. from 'paganos', "village".

Like Heathens - the people who live on the Heaths.

Christian terms to try to ostracise people who lived in rural areas, and were, therefore, more resistant to the corruption of the christian mythology.

You should wear the name Pagan with pride, since it means your religion has survived christianisation.

I personally perfer heathen or heretic myself. I say, the hell with it, I AM offensive and brash, so I might as well label myself as such :p

Seeing as you ignore my arguements in threads, or they simply get lost in the jumble, I have created this one thread with the arguement I was trying to give you.

Hey Fidei, I read a book about eating one's children, talking snakes, witches, magical birds spitting fire, unicorns, giants, magic, conjuring up the dead, smashing kids heads on rocks, talking donkeys, and it condones genocide! No, its no the Lord of the Rings, its the "Holy" Bible. And you still havent answered my Jesus-Mithra arguement... want me to repeat it?



Quote:
Originally Posted by The Parthians
Uhuh, Yeah. Well, Ahura Mazda told me that Jesus is a copy of an Aryan sun god called Mithra (Worshipped in Ancient Persia as Mithra and still worshipped by Hindus as Mitra). Mithra predates Christ by 1500 years and has too many similarities to your version of Mithra to make it a coincidence. Dont believe me?

Mithra, Sungod of Persia
The story of Mithra precedes the Christian fable by at least 600 years. According to Wheless, the cult of Mithra was, shortly before the Christian era, "the most popular and widely spread 'Pagan' religion of the times." Mithra has the following in common with the Christ character:

Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."52

http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

Not only that, but most of the tenets of your religion have been taken from my faith. The belief in angels and deamons, of an afterlife based on judgement of the soul dependent on the works of one's life, the belief in a savior (Messiah to Christians and Jews, Sashoyant to Zoroastrians), and the belief in apocalypse were all taken from the Zoroastrians. Your entire faith is a plagarism of three older faiths. You have stolen from the Zarathushtri (Zoroastrian) faith, from the ancient Aryan faith, and from the Jewish Torah to make a religion. Great work!

That is honestly, a load of anti-Christian crock...

^Wow, what fantastic logic.

Seeing as you ignore my arguements in threads, or they simply get lost in the jumble, I have created this one thread with the arguement I was trying to give you.

Hey Fidei, I read a book about eating one's children, talking snakes, witches, magical birds spitting fire, unicorns, giants, magic, conjuring up the dead, smashing kids heads on rocks, talking donkeys, and it condones genocide! No, its no the Lord of the Rings, its the "Holy" Bible. And you still havent answered my Jesus-Mithra arguement... want me to repeat it?



Quote:
Originally Posted by The Parthians
Uhuh, Yeah. Well, Ahura Mazda told me that Jesus is a copy of an Aryan sun god called Mithra (Worshipped in Ancient Persia as Mithra and still worshipped by Hindus as Mitra). Mithra predates Christ by 1500 years and has too many similarities to your version of Mithra to make it a coincidence. Dont believe me?

Mithra, Sungod of Persia
The story of Mithra precedes the Christian fable by at least 600 years. According to Wheless, the cult of Mithra was, shortly before the Christian era, "the most popular and widely spread 'Pagan' religion of the times." Mithra has the following in common with the Christ character:

Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."52

http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

Not only that, but most of the tenets of your religion have been taken from my faith. The belief in angels and deamons, of an afterlife based on judgement of the soul dependent on the works of one's life, the belief in a savior (Messiah to Christians and Jews, Sashoyant to Zoroastrians), and the belief in apocalypse were all taken from the Zoroastrians. Your entire faith is a plagarism of three older faiths. You have stolen from the Zarathushtri (Zoroastrian) faith, from the ancient Aryan faith, and from the Jewish Torah to make a religion. Great work!


There is no reason that God couldn't have made prophets rise up in other ares of the world....coming of a messiah was prophesied in the old testament.....why could't there be a prophecy in another part of the world....i don't think that God would have let the rest of the world go to hell just becasue they migrated to other parts of the world and/or weren't jews....i don't think God is like that.....

You goes, you don't understand something. I've figured it out. I've figured out how his mind works.

LIST OF PRIORITIES (from least to greatest):

Scientific law
Nature of the Bible and general message
Personal experience
Literal words of the Bible
Church and traditions


Read his posts. He thinks his church and traditions trumps the bible. Go ahead, read 'em. There's been plenty of times when someone says "the bible says this" and he responds with "well the church says this, so I'm right."

You goes, you don't understand something. I've figured it out. I've figured out how his mind works.

LIST OF PRIORITIES (from least to greatest):

Scientific law
Nature of the Bible and general message
Personal experience
Literal words of the Bible
Church and traditions


Read his posts. He thinks his church and traditions trumps the bible. Go ahead, read 'em. There's been plenty of times when someone says "the bible says this" and he responds with "well the church says this, so I'm right."

Not only that, but half the time the Church doesn't actually say what he says it does.

:rolleyes:

That is honestly, a load of anti-Christian crock...


Ok, prove it. Couldn't I say everything you state is anti-non-Christian crock? Please, use evidence, provide links or reading material.

I'm not writing an essay, but a few things that come to mind when reading this:

First off, I hope you're not trying to deny Jesus existed, because there's very little doubt about that.

Born on the 25th of December: The Bible doesn't say anything about the day Jesus was born. I think that date got started in the 300s or so.

Considered great teacher, etc.: So were lots of people, this one's pretty weak.

Diciples: Like Jesus, little doubt they existed. If they existed the fact that there were 12 of them is kind of irrelevant.

Performed miracles: Well, when God comes to earth, what do you expect? :)

He was buried in a tomb: Well, aren't most people? :) (Sorry, couldn't resist)

Others: The rest look like they're in the Bible. I'll admit I didn't read the article thouroughly, so I won't pick it apart.

I'm not writing an essay, but a few things that come to mind when reading this:

First off, I hope you're not trying to deny Jesus existed, because there's very little doubt about that.

Born on the 25th of December: The Bible doesn't say anything about the day Jesus was born. I think that date got started in the 300s or so.

Considered great teacher, etc.: So were lots of people, this one's pretty weak.

Diciples: Like Jesus, little doubt they existed. If they existed the fact that there were 12 of them is kind of irrelevant.

Performed miracles: Well, when God comes to earth, what do you expect? :)

He was buried in a tomb: Well, aren't most people? :) (Sorry, couldn't resist)

Others: The rest look like they're in the Bible. I'll admit I didn't read the article thouroughly, so I won't pick it apart.


I'm just qutoing the article.

No, I'm not denying Jesus's existence. I am however, denying that alot of the myths and miracles performed by him were of his doing. I think there was a historical Jesus, who was a Jewish reformer. However, I doubt much of the gospels and what they say about him. The rsssurection, for instance, is Mithraic in orgin, as is much of the life of Jesus including miracles and such things.

I would like to say that miracles do exist...i could give several examples of ones that have occured within my family..including me....i should be either dead or a vegatable right now....and i should have been.....and i would gladly recount what happened....

I would like to say that miracles do exist...i could give several examples of ones that have occured within my family..including me....i should be either dead or a vegatable right now....and i should have been.....and i would gladly recount what happened....

I don't think anyone is denying that miracles do happen. I, for one, have seen some pretty amazing things happen spontaneously. But what it seems we are debating is what Christianity is derived from.

Diciples: Like Jesus, little doubt they existed. If they existed the fact that there were 12 of them is kind of irrelevant.
ahh, but that is quite relevant, you thinking that that number is irrelevant shows your ignorance
the twelve apostles are reflecting on the twelve original tribes of israel and there's a lot more blah blah on that that i wont post but i'm sure you could head over to a nearby church and ask the pastor about

ahh, but that is quite relevant, you thinking that that number is irrelevant shows your ignorance
the twelve apostles are reflecting on the twelve original tribes of israel and there's a lot more blah blah on that that i wont post but i'm sure you could head over to a nearby church and ask the pastor about

Yes, and so did Mithra.

I see no reason to not believe in miracles, I believe the Prophet Zarathustra Preformed many miracles in his lifetime.

I've admired Zoroastrianism, particularly when I was taught comparative theology by the Unitarians, growing up. My memory of the details have grown murky, as I've never had the opportunity to meet a Zoroastrian face-to-face, all these long years since, but I do recall much preferring the Zoroastrian concept of duality over the Christian.

I've been a spiritual 'free agent' for many years now, and though I've resisted joining any fellowship (save the fellowship of non-joiners, the Church of the Subgenius), I've been drawn repeatedly to two archetypal figures from two disparate pantheons: The first is Prometheus, who was punished most severely (unfairly so) for giving humanity fire, and the cunning to use it; the second is Loki, who...well...came to me in a moment not unlike an epiphany, a few months ago. Loki came to me in the guise of a bouncing ball of flame.

I recently attended a Christmas party at an old friend's place, and late into the evening, another guest, a mutual friend from my days with the Unitarians, got me to talk a bit about this 'vision' as he put it. What I didn't know was that sometime in the recent past, this old pal had taken up with a very Christian crowd,and was now tech support for a number of Christian congregations around town.

He flayed me. He told me I was deluded, a Satanist, that I risked my eternal soul even talking about such things. I was honestly perplexed, and said as much. He took his leave of me, and wouldn't say goodbye when it came time to leave. I've known this guy for over 22 years. I felt like he'd drawn a line in the 'sand' between us, as it were.

Ah...sorry. I'm digressing. That's what I get for posting while under the influence of the holiday spirit.

Merry Festive Everything, people!

Hee, three pages so far...

And DF has only said one line!

Come on, DF, you know we all really love you...
:(

ahh, but that is quite relevant, you thinking that that number is irrelevant shows your ignorance
the twelve apostles are reflecting on the twelve original tribes of israel and there's a lot more blah blah on that that i wont post but i'm sure you could head over to a nearby church and ask the pastor about
Jesus might have picked twelve for whatever reasons he liked. I'm saying that haaving twelve living, walking apostles would mean that they're not just based off of another story. The fact that there were tweleve of them might very well have some other significance, but not here.

Oh and DF, how do you explain that Jesus was actually born in MARCH, but we celebrate his B-day now?

I'm not writing an essay, but a few things that come to mind when reading this:

First off, I hope you're not trying to deny Jesus existed, because there's very little doubt about that.

Born on the 25th of December: The Bible doesn't say anything about the day Jesus was born. I think that date got started in the 300s or so.

Considered great teacher, etc.: So were lots of people, this one's pretty weak.

Diciples: Like Jesus, little doubt they existed. If they existed the fact that there were 12 of them is kind of irrelevant.

Performed miracles: Well, when God comes to earth, what do you expect? :)

He was buried in a tomb: Well, aren't most people? :) (Sorry, couldn't resist)

Others: The rest look like they're in the Bible. I'll admit I didn't read the article thouroughly, so I won't pick it apart.

I don't think anyone here has denied a man called Jesus existed. They may argue that he wasn't the "Son of God", or "God Incarnate". They may argue he didn't do miracles.

That is because there is no evidence to support any of those claims.

Similarly - why do you believe he was buried in a tomb? I have seen no evidence, outside of the bible, to even suggest Jesus was crucified. It seems more likely to me that he is being idolised for a confusion of events - early christians being persecuted/ mixed up with the Jesus myth.

The "Considered a Great Teacher" thing... well, a lot of his 'teachings' can be tracked back to Buddhism 600 years earlier, so perhaps he was just recycling good teaching.

Regarding the disciples... there is no evidence that any of the disciples actually lived... those names could have been attached to anyone, at any time after the formation of the church. The Gospels are even more unlikely, since that means that poor workers are being assumed to have sufficient education to have written texts.

Every once in a while, I find one of those things on the internet that compares Jesus to another holy man who lived X0d years before him. Most of them I've debunked, but some still have merit. I honestly don't know about this one. It seems to me that there are alot of semi-omnipotent half-god-half-man people walking around on water, preforming miracles, having followers, and being born on December 25th (despite the fact that Jesus' birthday was problably sometime in July or August).

I'm not trying to debunk Christianity or any other religion for that matter, but there seem to be alot of people trying to do it to alot of other people. Religious fanaticism is annoying no matter what you believe.

Every once in a while, I find one of those things on the internet that compares Jesus to another holy man who lived X0d years before him. Most of them I've debunked, but some still have merit. I honestly don't know about this one. It seems to me that there are alot of semi-omnipotent half-god-half-man people walking around on water, preforming miracles, having followers, and being born on December 25th (despite the fact that Jesus' birthday was problably sometime in July or August).

I'm not trying to debunk Christianity or any other religion for that matter, but there seem to be alot of people trying to do it to alot of other people. Religious fanaticism is annoying no matter what you believe.

I think I've heard of Mithra before, oddly enough, so this one just might be genuine.

Why are people so hellbent on destroying other people's beliefs? And you all claim to be liberals too!

Why are people so hellbent on destroying other people's beliefs?

I could ask the same thing of the Roman Catholic Church, especially about its nice missionary work to the indigenous people of the Americas

I could ask the same thing of the Roman Catholic Church, especially about its nice missionary work to the indigenous people of the Americas

Same could be said to Evangelicals and any non-WASP group.

And, anyway, you cannot condemn me for the actions of people hundreds of years ago. I do not seek to destory other people's beliefs.

Why are people so hellbent on destroying other people's beliefs? And you all claim to be liberals too!

Some because they are well aware of the 2000+ years of oppression, persecution, massmurder etc of the people with their ideals by those believers you mention.

Some because they consider some claims made by modern day believers extremely offensive - like notions that homosexuals and infidels are subhuman - or are annoyed by the fact that religion seldom is willing to acknowledge that a different position than their god dictates can also be right.

Some because they realise that they ARE those infidels, and therefor that said beliefs are insulting them. Or because the beliefs they themselves hold do not agree with the beliefs they are attacking.

Some because they consider the truth to be more important than assumptions.

And some because they like to be annoying.

Some because they are well awhere of the 2000+ years of oppression, persecution, massmurder etc of the people with their ideals by those believers you mention.

Some because they consider some claims made by modern day believers extremely offensive - like notions that homosexuals and infidels are subhuman - or are annoyed by the fact that religion seldom is willing to acknowledge that a different position than their god dictates can also be right.

Some because they realise that they ARE those infidels, and therefor that said beliefs are insulting them. Or because the beliefs they themselves hold do not agree with the beliefs they are attacking.

Some because they consider the truth to be more important than assumptions.

And some because they like to be annoying.

It was a rhetorical question, BTW. Thanks for your reply anyway though.

Has Defensor Fidei ever posted more than one liners? Seriously, I've never seen him write anything more, and I wonder why not. He usually contents himself to 'Fear the Jews' when he could just as easily type an essay pointing out the glaring holes in another's post. All this makes me believe that he's someone in his mid teens with a wicked sense of humor and a bible on hand, playing the part of a conservative christian on a liberal discussion board.

It was a rhetorical question, BTW. Thanks for your reply anyway though.

I know. Yet after reading 5 topics filled with the crusade against homosexuality this question was right on ;-)

Has Defensor Fidei ever posted more than one liners? Seriously, I've never seen him write anything more, and I wonder why not. He usually contents himself to 'Fear the Jews' when he could just as easily type an essay pointing out the glaring holes in another's post. All this makes me believe that he's someone in his mid teens with a wicked sense of humor and a bible on hand, playing the part of a conservative christian on a liberal discussion board.

Who knows?! Lol!

I worship chaos,none can deny the power of pure chaos.by existing we serve it!even omnipotent beings must serve the power of chaos!behold its glory!

I worship chaos,none can deny the power of pure chaos.by existing we serve it!even omnipotent beings must serve the power of chaos!behold its glory!

*steals the eye of the serpent and uses it to draw a pattern of order*
Read the amber chronicles if you have no idea what I'm talking about :p

Why are people so hellbent on destroying other people's beliefs? And you all claim to be liberals too!

Which threaten you currently - facts being presented, or a person of another religious belief questioning the originality/authenticity of the tenets of your faith?

I'm not sure why any of you bother with Defensor Fidei anymore. He's clearly not serious. He's just playing a part to piss people off.

I'm not sure why any of you bother with Defensor Fidei anymore. He's clearly not serious. He's just playing a part to piss people off.
In DF's region resides a nation named 'Tenete Traditiones II'

Suspicious? Not really . . . ;)

I could ask the same thing of the Roman Catholic Church, especially about its nice missionary work to the indigenous people of the Americas

Ah, but CE is asking about specific people on this message board. What the Catholic Church did five hundred years ago is a completely different matter.

Ah, but CE is asking about specific people on this message board. What the Catholic Church did five hundred years ago is a completely different matter.

Not really, unless you want to derail the argument by getting defensive. The original point was that, some time ago, Christianity came in and assimlated certain beliefs to choke out the other religion. In this, the intent was certainly to destroy the other belief system and build their own on its foundation. Hence, it is appropriate to ask a branch of that faith the same question - "Why do some people seek to destroy the faith of others?" <-paraphrased

I worship chaos,none can deny the power of pure chaos.by existing we serve it!even omnipotent beings must serve the power of chaos!behold its glory!

Someone has spent way too much money on Hellboy comics.


...just like me.

*quite sobbing from closet nerd in corner*

ATTENTION

I did some quick internet research on Mithra. Check this out:

http://www.crystalinks.com/mithra.html

Not exactly Jesus material.

Someone has spent way too much money on Hellboy comics.


...just like me.

*quite sobbing from closet nerd in corner*

whats hellboy?

Not really, unless you want to derail the argument by getting defensive. The original point was that, some time ago, Christianity came in and assimlated certain beliefs to choke out the other religion. In this, the intent was certainly to destroy the other belief system and build their own on its foundation. Hence, it is appropriate to ask a branch of that faith the same question - "Why do some people seek to destroy the faith of others?" <-paraphrased

I'm not sure it's fair to ask CE to answer for the actions of an entire religious institution.

ATTENTION

I did some quick internet research on Mithra. Check this out:

http://www.crystalinks.com/mithra.html

Not exactly Jesus material.

I don't see why you'd reach that conclusion, based on the link you provided. Nothing there really contradicts anything the author said, and many things substantiate it further.

I'm not sure it's fair to ask CE to answer for the actions of an entire religious institution.

Go back and look - no one did. The comment was simply made that one could ask the Catholic Church the same question CE was posing.

ok this whole thread is spammy XD
but just to carry on the trend, i worship Ra and Isis...and Panda and Superhoboman...cept the last two not quite so seriously

I don't see why you'd reach that conclusion, based on the link you provided. Nothing there really contradicts anything the author said, and many things substantiate it further.

Quotation from the site:

In Support:

"The faithful referred to Mithras as "the Light of the World", symbol of truth, justice, and loyalty. He was mediator between heaven and earth and was a member of a Holy Trinity.

The worshippers of Mithras held strong beliefs in a celestial heaven and an infernal hell. They believed that the benevolent powers of the god would sympathize with their suffering and grant them the final justice of immortality and eternal salvation in the world to come. They looked forward to a final day of judgement in which the dead would resurrect, and to a final conflict that would destroy the existing order of all things to bring about the triumph of light over darkness.

Purification through a ritualistic baptism was required of the faithful, who also took part in a ceremony in which they drank wine and ate bread to symbolize the body and blood of the god. Sundays were held sacred, and the birth of the god was celebrated annually on December the 25th. After the earthly mission of this god had been accomplished, he took part in a Last Supper with his companions before ascending to heaven, to forever protect the faithful from above."

Directly Following This Passage:

"...[I]t would be a vast oversimplification to suggest that Mithraism was the single forerunner of early Christianity. Aside from Christ and Mithras, there were plenty of other deities (such as Osiris, Tammuz, Adonis, Balder, Attis, and Dionysus) said to have died and resurrected. Many classical heroic figures, such as Hercules, Perseus, and Theseus, were said to have been born through the union of a virgin mother and divine father. Virtually every pagan religious practice and festivity that couldn't be suppressed or driven underground was eventually incorporated into the rites of Christianity as it spread across Europe and throughout the world."

ok this whole thread is spammy XD
but just to carry on the trend, i worship Ra and Isis...and Panda and Superhoboman...cept the last two not quite so seriously

this pleases me,i like the egpytion pantheon.

Quotation from the site:

In Support:

"The faithful referred to Mithras as "the Light of the World", symbol of truth, justice, and loyalty. He was mediator between heaven and earth and was a member of a Holy Trinity.

The worshippers of Mithras held strong beliefs in a celestial heaven and an infernal hell. They believed that the benevolent powers of the god would sympathize with their suffering and grant them the final justice of immortality and eternal salvation in the world to come. They looked forward to a final day of judgement in which the dead would resurrect, and to a final conflict that would destroy the existing order of all things to bring about the triumph of light over darkness.

Purification through a ritualistic baptism was required of the faithful, who also took part in a ceremony in which they drank wine and ate bread to symbolize the body and blood of the god. Sundays were held sacred, and the birth of the god was celebrated annually on December the 25th. After the earthly mission of this god had been accomplished, he took part in a Last Supper with his companions before ascending to heaven, to forever protect the faithful from above."

Directly Following This Passage:

"...[I]t would be a vast oversimplification to suggest that Mithraism was the single forerunner of early Christianity. Aside from Christ and Mithras, there were plenty of other deities (such as Osiris, Tammuz, Adonis, Balder, Attis, and Dionysus) said to have died and resurrected. Many classical heroic figures, such as Hercules, Perseus, and Theseus, were said to have been born through the union of a virgin mother and divine father. Virtually every pagan religious practice and festivity that couldn't be suppressed or driven underground was eventually incorporated into the rites of Christianity as it spread across Europe and throughout the world."

still more proof that Christianity STOLE SHIT from is predecessors. ^_^

Quotation from the site:

In Support:

"The faithful referred to Mithras as "the Light of the World", symbol of truth, justice, and loyalty. He was mediator between heaven and earth and was a member of a Holy Trinity.

The worshippers of Mithras held strong beliefs in a celestial heaven and an infernal hell. They believed that the benevolent powers of the god would sympathize with their suffering and grant them the final justice of immortality and eternal salvation in the world to come. They looked forward to a final day of judgement in which the dead would resurrect, and to a final conflict that would destroy the existing order of all things to bring about the triumph of light over darkness.

Purification through a ritualistic baptism was required of the faithful, who also took part in a ceremony in which they drank wine and ate bread to symbolize the body and blood of the god. Sundays were held sacred, and the birth of the god was celebrated annually on December the 25th. After the earthly mission of this god had been accomplished, he took part in a Last Supper with his companions before ascending to heaven, to forever protect the faithful from above."

Directly Following This Passage:

"...[I]t would be a vast oversimplification to suggest that Mithraism was the single forerunner of early Christianity. Aside from Christ and Mithras, there were plenty of other deities (such as Osiris, Tammuz, Adonis, Balder, Attis, and Dionysus) said to have died and resurrected. Many classical heroic figures, such as Hercules, Perseus, and Theseus, were said to have been born through the union of a virgin mother and divine father. Virtually every pagan religious practice and festivity that couldn't be suppressed or driven underground was eventually incorporated into the rites of Christianity as it spread across Europe and throughout the world."

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to argue here.

Your initial claim was that, by the information on that site, Mithras doesn't seem to be "Jesus material." However, most of that page says exactly what the thread's author does, and shows just how strikingly Mithras is like Jesus. Your claim that the one paragraph that you cite somehow refutes that is completely wrong. First of all, the similarities mentioned before that loom much larger. Secondly, noting a couple of other themes which appear in other religions in no way invalidates the claim that the mythology of Mithras was assimilated into that of Jesus. Rather, it further illustrates just how much religions borrow from each other (which is not exactly news here), and if you want to go a step further, just provides further proof of just how unoriginal Christianity is. Furthermore, if such borrowing makes Mithras not like Jesus, that would also make Jesus not like Jesus, because we've already established that a substantial amount of borrowing which has gone on there, as well.

In short, no, nothing on that page shows MIthras to be not like Jesus. What it shows is that yes, there are great similarities between the two. It also shows that certain themes extend beyond the mythos of either religion. When you can actually cite something that would add some weight to the "Not Like Jesus" side of the scale, please try again. This does nothing of the sort.

After all the posts I have read involving this Defensor Fidei...I absolutely have to ask...Why do you even care anymore? My simple solution for dealing with annoying types is to move right on past their posts and not bothering to even respond. it seems to make them go away faster than anything else. It is fairly obvious to me at this point that DF will NEVER come out of his shell and openly debate anyone...he's just trying to ruffle your feathers and has so far succeeded in doing so. Let it go, man!

Which threaten you currently - facts being presented, or a person of another religious belief questioning the originality/authenticity of the tenets of your faith?

I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about another person.

Go back and look - no one did. The comment was simply made that one could ask the Catholic Church the same question CE was posing.

And lots of people do ask the Holy Mother Church that question....which is why in 2000 His Holiness Pope John Paul II apologised for the churches sins against women etc.