NationStates Jolt Archive

I sure as hell hope so.

Unfortunately, I don't see it ever happening. :(

Not for at least another 4 years, I'd imagine.

then you must be like 50, dude!

then you must be like 50, dude!
touché!

It's going to take either a long time and a lot of diplomacy, or an immediate and grave threat to both Europe and the USA that forces us together.

mmmmmm

Good question. The thing is, the world is still a very diverse place, and Europe and the US still have lots of things in common. Both are democracies, both have market economies. But they are becoming increasingly socially distant. Now, this distance isnt necessarely a source of conflict, it just means that in the future, it is expected that we won't be aligned so often.

Let's try this:

Can they be mended during the time George W. Bush occupies the White House?

I sure as hell hope so.

Unfortunately, I don't see it ever happening. :(
i dunno, how long do your forsee dick tater being able to convince us he needs to be in office as a war president?

Of course they'll be mended, eventually.

All things heal in time, and at the end of the day, both regions have too much in common culturaly and have too much to gain from commerce for relations to remain so frosty for too long.

Not for at least another 4 years, I'd imagine.

Yeah. 4 years is the magic number. I can't see anyone in Europe (Tony Blair isn't anyone, he is a moron.) liking America until then.

Let's try this:

Can they be mended during the time George W. Bush occupies the White House?
Probably not. Too much bad blood between his administration and many European governments.

of course it CAN , the question is, Will it be?

Let's try this:

Can they be mended during the time George W. Bush occupies the White House?
oh, no

Let's try this:

Can they be mended during the time George W. Bush occupies the White House?

Not bloody likely.

To those who voted 'no,' please explain.

Not bloody likely.

Agreed.

Eventually they will, there have already been some indications of more cordial relationships.

And if you blame Bush for it all, well in 4 years and a few weeks he will be out of the White House. Then we will have someone else to try and mend fences.

I voted yes. But it will have to come with changes from both sides.

In 4 years it can start.

That is unless we get another God has spoken to me and I have a mandate neocon again.....

I can't see anyone in Europe (Tony Blair isn't anyone, he is a moron.) liking America until then.

A man after my own heart :D

You are all wrong I'm afraid.
I am "European" ( Italian, exactly ).
As always these things happens, it is not the single case, but the whole. For the last sixty years Europe has been a group of "satellite nations" ( don't misunderstand I beg you, I mean at the end of the 2WW conflict the center of the world power has changed continent, and so Europe has lost her control ), a part aligned for Soviet Union, and another part for US.
In these years the born of new European coalition has changed this condition and the U.S. government ( it doesn't matter who's in charge, if it was Kerry, or Clinton in power in 2001, they would have done the same Bush did ) in its "imperialistic" ( with quotes ... ) way to see the world would like to keep Europe the same way you keep your pet in your garden ( for example, the foreign affairs with Middle East and its resources; or the other thing: the space shield ... ).
I don't think there would be another cold war ( we are "cousins", after all :) ) let's just say the relations will not ever be the same.

It's going to take either a long time and a lot of diplomacy, or an immediate and grave threat to both Europe and the USA that forces us together.
Funny thing, there is an immediate and grave threat to both Europe and the USA in the form of global terrorism. And yet our relations are worse than ever.

I think that relations will take a decade to mend, and it certainly won't happen with Bush and his xenophobic supporters ruling America.

It appears to me that a lot of conservatives, especially the redneck Bush-loving base, actually want to have bad relations with Europe. They quite clearly hate us.

It appears to me that a lot of conservatives, especially the redneck Bush-loving base, actually want to have bad relations with Europe. They quite clearly hate us.

I quite clearly hate them (the redneck xenophobes). They're a bunch of racist assholes. :mad:

we studied this for a week in politics and by the end of the week i felt like a marriage councillor...
basically we established that the US needs to be more sensetive about problems and not so brash, while Europe needs to be more realistic with a more effectly spent and bigger defence budget.

I hope not. That way I can have my Freedom fries, Freedom wine, Freedom kisses, Freedom onion soup, and Freedom windows.

^^^^^^^
I believe the technical term is "liberty lip-lock"!!!

we studied this for a week in politics and by the end of the week i felt like a marriage councillor...
basically we established that the US needs to be more sensetive about problems and not so brash, while Europe needs to be more realistic with a more effectly spent and bigger defence budget.
Yeah, I agree with that. I think that US is more at fault for hurting the transatlantic relationship (admittedly I'm biased), but I admit that our European leaders can often be frustratingly indecisive when faced with problems.

Funny thing, there is an immediate and grave threat to both Europe and the USA in the form of global terrorism. And yet our relations are worse than ever.


Global terrorism - in fact - does not exist, in my opinion.

I think it will get worse as the rest of the Western World continues to move to the left, and America insists on moving to the right. It can be mended, but not likely under current conditions.

It seems strange that being called "European" is an insult used by rightists against leftists. A lot of it is cultural backlash. Europe, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are moving to legalize gay marriages while America bans them. Marijuana, capital punishment, abortion, and prostitution are other areas where "Stop Europeanizing America" is becoming a rallying cry. Kerry's wife was attacked for being European.

And of course on the other side, as the rightwingers continue to grow in power in America, the rest of the Western World regards America with disdain.

Quite simply, for relations to really be mended, either Europe needs to get more conservative or America needs to get more liberal. My thoughts at least.

There was a guy in High School that I didn't like. I would call him a rival. We were both on the wrestling team. He outweighed me by a good thirty pounds, so we were in differnt weight classes. Nevertheless, we were always insulting and annoying eachother. One day at a party at a mutual friend's house, I passed out. Bad idea to pass out in the company of people like me.

I woke up naked and duct-taped to him. Also naked. Face-to-face. In close intimate personal contact. Apparently, he passed out too. It was quite a humbling experience.

Ever since then, we've been very good friends. Some old-timers might remember me mentioning Ape before.

Maybe something like that would work for the U.S. and Europe. We get some world leaders drunk and then tape em together. :D

Yes, but the US would need to bail out Europe from a crisis of it's own making again.

Global terrorism - in fact - does not exist, in my opinion.

And you base this opinion on what set of facts?

Lets see if these facts change your thoughts

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/terror-qaeda.html

2/1993 - Bombing of World Trade Center; 6 killed.

10/1993 - Killing of U.S. soldiers in Somalia.

1994 - Investigation of the WTC bombing reveals that it was only a small part of a massive attack plan that included hijacking a plane and crashing it into CIA headquarters.

1/1995 - When a bomb exploded accidentally in a Manila apartment, police uncovered a major terrorist plot. Associates of Osama bin Laden had planned to blow up 12 planes as they flew from Southeast Asia to the U.S., crash another aircraft into CIA headquarters, and kill the pope.


6/1996 - Truck bomb explodes outside Khobar Towers military complex in Saudi Arabia; 19 American servicemen killed, hundreds of others injured.

1997 - Al-Zawahiri is suspected of helping organize the 1997 massacre of 67 foreign tourists in the Egyptian town of Luxor

8/1998 - Bombing of U.S. embassies in East Africa; 224 killed including 12 Americans. Al-Zawahiri is suspected of helping organize these events and was indicted in connection with the bombing of U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya

12/1999 - Plot to bomb millennium celebrations in Seattle foiled when customs agents arrest an Algerian smuggling explosives into the U.S. Other Algerians subsequently arrested were "Afghan alumni."

12/1999 - Jordanian police arrested members of a cell planning attacks against Western tourists.

10/2000 - Bombing of the USS Cole in port in Yemen; 17 U.S. sailors killed.

9/11/2001 - Destruction of WTC, attack on Pentagon.

4/11/2002 - Explosion at ancient synogogue in Tunisia leaves 17 dead, including 11 German tourists.

5/2002 - Car explodes outside hotel in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 14, including 11 French citizens.

6/2002 - Bomb explodes outside American Consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12.

10/2002 - Nightclub bombings in Bali, Indonesia, kill 202, mostly Australian citizens.

10/2002 - Suicide attack on a hotel in Mombasa, Kenya, kills 16.

3/2003 - the U.S. widened the war on terrorism by invading Iraq and deposing Saddam Hussein and his Ba'ath party. Although President Bush asserted that there was a working relationship between Hussein and al-Qaeda, no solid proof of collaboration between them—specifically on the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, or on any other terrorist activities—has emerged. Since then, however, suspected al-Qaeda terrorists have moved into the country and are likely responsible for kidnappings and a string of suicide-bomb attacks. In February 2004, U.S. forces intercepted a letter believed to have been written by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian radical. The letter outlined plans to destabilize Iraq by igniting sectarian conflict between Shia and Sunni Muslims. Al-Zarqawi has been linked to al-Qaeda by U.S. intelligence. However, the relationship between al-Zarqawi is unclear—he has positioned himself as a rival to bin Laden in the past.


5/2003 - Suicide bombers kill 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

5/2003 - Four bombs kill 33 people, targeting Jewish, Spanish, and Belgian sites in Casablanca, Morocco.

8/2003 - Suicide car bomb kills 12, injures 150, at Marriott Hotel in Jakarta, Indonesia.
11/2003 Explosions rock a Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, housing compound killing 17.

8/2003 - Suicide car bombers simultaneously attack two synagogues in Istanbul, Turkey, killing 25 and injuring hundreds. The following week a British bank in Istanbul is bombed.

2/2004 - U.S. forces intercepted a letter believed to have been written by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian radical. The letter outlined plans to destabilize Iraq by igniting sectarian conflict between Shia and Sunni Muslims. Al-Zarqawi has been linked to al-Qaeda by U.S. intelligence. However, the relationship between al-Zarqawi is unclear—he has positioned himself as a rival to bin Laden in the past. Since this time al-Zarqawi has pledged allegence to bin Laden.

3/2004 - Ten terrorists bombs explode almost simultaneously during the morning rush hour in Madrid, Spain, killing 202 and injuring more than 1,400. A Moroccan affiliate of al-Qaeda claims responsibility.

4/2004 - Osama bin Laden offered a truce to Europe, saying that al-Qaeda would not attack any country, with the exception of the U.S., that withdrew its troops from the Islamic world within three months. European leaders quickly rejected the offer.

5/29–31/2004 Terrorists attack the offices of a Saudi oil company in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, then take foreign oil workers hostage in a nearby residential compound. After a stand-off, three of the four assailants escape, leaving 22 people dead, all but three of them foreigners.

6/11–19/2004 Terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson, Jr., an American, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Nearly a week after his capture, photos of his body are posted on an Islamist website. Saudi security forces find and kill four suspected terrorists, including the self-proclaimed military leader of al-Qaeda in Saudi Arabia, after they are seen dumping a body.

12/6/2004 Militants, believed to be linked to Al-Qaeda, drive up to the U.S. consulate in Jiddah, Saudi Arabia, storm the gates, and kill 5 consulate employees, none of whom were American. Saudi security forces subdue the attackers, killing four.

Al-Qaeda differs significantly from more traditional terrorist organizations. It does not depend on the sponsorship of a political state, and, unlike the PLO or the IRA, it is not defined by a particular conflict. Instead, al-Qaeda operates as a franchise. It provides financial and logistical support, as well as name recognition, to terrorist groups operating in such diverse places as the Philippines, Algeria, Eritrea, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Tajikistan, Somalia, Yemen, and Kashmir. Furthermore, local groups may act in the name of al-Qaeda in order to bolster their own reputation—even if they are not receiving support from the organization.


http://www.infoplease.com/spot/terrorism6.html

In the shadowy underworld of international terror, things are not always what they seem. Groups with diverse, even opposing, ideologies and differing goals often help each other when they share a common enemy. And while a terrorist act may be over in a matter of minutes, the planning and the coordination of such an event may take years.

For instance, despite their ideological differences, Middle Eastern terrorist organizations have participated in two international summits—in Beirut, Lebanon, and Teheran, Iran—in the year before the September 11, 2001, attacks, intelligence experts say. Two Palestinians, Musa Abu Marzouq, of Hamas, and Ramadham Abdullah Shallah of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, organized the conferences, which were called "The Jerusalem Project."

The 400 participants pledged to support the Palestinians and seek Arab control over Jerusalem. They also reportedly agreed that the U.S. has become "a second Israel." Attendees included several Iranian diplomats and intelligence officials; representatives of Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda; the Lebanese Hezbollah; and individuals from Algeria, Egypt, Jordan, Qatar, Pakistan, Sudan, and Yemen, and at least one person living in the United States.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4540546/

The Associated Press
Updated: 4:06 p.m. ET March 16, 2004PARIS - Officials are investigating threats issued by a radical Islamic group against France and its overseas interests, the Justice Ministry said Tuesday.

The shadowy group identified itself as the “Servants of Allah the Powerful and Wise,” the ministry said in a statement, adding that the group was unknown to French authorities.

Justice officials did not disclose the nature of the threats, but RTL radio reported that Le Parisien newspaper received a letter threatening Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin over France’s plan to ban Islamic head scarves and other religious apparel in schools.

In the past weeks, French authorities have received terror threats from another little-known group that calls itself AZF.

The group claims to have planted nine bombs along the country’s rail network and has threatened to explode them unless it is paid millions of dollars.

Information from AZF led to the recovery Feb. 21 of an explosive device buried in the bed of a railway line near Limoges in central France.

Since the Sept. 11 attacks against the United States, France has arrested dozens of terror suspects.

Authorities dismantled a terror cell in 2002 with ties to Chechen rebels and al-Qaida that planned bomb or toxic gas attacks in France and Russia. Among the suspected targets was the Russian Embassy in Paris.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041102/D863NRS80.html

11/2004 - A Dutch filmmaker who had received death threats after releasing a movie criticizing the treatment of women under Islam was slain in Amsterdam on Tuesday, police said.

A suspect, a 26-year-old man with dual Dutch-Moroccan nationality, was arrested after a shootout with officers that left him wounded, police said.

Filmmaker Theo van Gogh had been threatened after the August airing of the movie "Submission," which he made with a right-wing Dutch politician who had renounced the Islamic faith of her birth. Van Gogh had received police protection after its release.

Dutch national broadcaster NOS and other media reported that Van Gogh's killer shot and stabbed his victim and left a note on his body.

And lastly
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908746.html

Sounds pretty global to me

Odd how much information there is that refutes your opinion, this only took me a few minutes of googling to find these

Can you cite any source that states that there is NO global terrorist threat? Or is it only in your head that global terrorism does not exist?

If so please try to pull your head out of the sand and educate yourself somewhat before you make such statements.

Funny thing, there is an immediate and grave threat to both Europe and the USA in the form of global terrorism. And yet our relations are worse than ever.

I think that relations will take a decade to mend, and it certainly won't happen with Bush and his xenophobic supporters ruling America.

It appears to me that a lot of conservatives, especially the redneck Bush-loving base, actually want to have bad relations with Europe. They quite clearly hate us.
I don't think Europe feels threatened by terrorism. They haven't had their 9/11 yet. The Madrid bombings were bad, but not 9/11 bad, and they were attributed to Spanish involvement in the Iraq war. When Europe suffers a massive unprovoked terrorist attack, then it will align itself with the USA.

I think it will get worse as the rest of the Western World continues to move to the left, and America insists on moving to the right. It can be mended, but not likely under current conditions.
We're moving to the left? That's funny, it looks to me like globalisation and commercialisation (is that a word?) are on the increase while social welfare is taking cutbacks in most European countries. Not particularly left-wing I think!

Global terrorism - in fact - does not exist, in my opinion.
I agree that the problem is overrated and sensationalised, but it does exist, IMO. It's just not as big and dangerous as it is hyped up to be.

I be believe that your right Drunk Commies. In fact to a certain extent Europe is already starting to realize their vulnerability. But with massive Muslum minorities they are being very careful how they proceed.

Except for Chirac and that whole headscarf thing, talk about stepping in it.

Very likely, but I'd be surprised to see any movement prior to 2008.

I don't think Europe feels threatened by terrorism. They haven't had their 9/11 yet. The Madrid bombings were bad, but not 9/11 bad, and they were attributed to Spanish involvement in the Iraq war. When Europe suffers a massive unprovoked terrorist attack, then it will align itself with the USA.
Maybe not. Russia suffered a terrible disaster this year, and it is drifting further away from both Europe and America. These terrorists are successfully dividing us when we should be uniting.

Let's try this:

Can they be mended during the time George W. Bush occupies the White House?
Nope! Bush is a terrible diplomat.

Very likely, but I'd be surprised to see any movement prior to 2008.

Agreed, this administration as a whole seems to have a very isolationist additude, Bush even ran his 2000 campaign on a platform that disdained "Nation Building". Of course since that time new realities have arisen have they not?

This "Go it alone" additude is, I believe is a reflection on the administration and Bush himself, a person who strongly believes in doing what he believes to be right. That others dont agree with him ( myself included on some issues ) is to be expected.

It also appears that on the European side there are anti-American sentiments that exasperate this situation.

I do believe the German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder ran and won on an Anti-American platform did he not?

Since then there has been some warming of the German - American relationship
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/02/20040227-6.html
http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/publications/week/2004/040227/week.html

French President Jacques Chirac has also been making political capital in his country by being the leader of the opposition to America has he not?
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=%5CForeignBureaus%5Carchive%5C200411%5CFOR20041117f.html

Basically both sides have had a part in the tensions between Europe and America, and both sides will have to work to rebuild the relationship.

Once Bush is out of office ( or Chirac ) there will be an opportunity for both sides to make advances in this effort, and it is in the best interests of both parties to do so and they both know it.

Maybe not. Russia suffered a terrible disaster this year, and it is drifting further away from both Europe and America. These terrorists are successfully dividing us when we should be uniting.

With the Chechnyan (spelling?) rebels (wanting to annex themselves from Russia ) turned terrorists Russia has had a hard time finding support around the world.

Is it any wonder that Russian President Vladimir Putain is no longer looking to the world for support and trying to consolidate his power?

We're moving to the left? That's funny, it looks to me like globalisation and commercialisation (is that a word?) are on the increase while social welfare is taking cutbacks in most European countries. Not particularly left-wing I think!

True, and this I think is a part of the natural cycle of human events, the pendulum swings and right now it looks like Europe is coming off of a left-ward peak while America is either at. or approaching a right-ward one

And if its not a word it should be :)

I agree that the problem is overrated and sensationalised, but it does exist, IMO. It's just not as big and dangerous as it is hyped up to be.

Well, it is of course hyped. The uncertainty of where and when the next attack will occure makes that inevitable. Fear being the terrorist's best ally and the rest of the world's worst foe.

As for how big and how dangerous, well that depends on what the terrorist do next, does it not?

If they weaponized something like anthrax, smallpox or the avian flu the death toll could be in the millions or even billions could it not? Or a dozen dirty bombs exploded simultaniously in half a dozen countries, or just one country.

See how uncertainty works to "hype" the threat? Unless we know what the terrorists will use in the next attack how can we estimate the threat?

True, and this I think is a part of the natural cycle of human events, the pendulum swings and right now it looks like Europe is coming off of a left-ward peak while America is either at. or approaching a right-ward one

And if its not a word it should be :)



Well, it is of course hyped. The uncertainty of where and when the next attack will occure makes that inevitable. Fear being the terrorist's best ally and the rest of the world's worst foe.

As for how big and how dangerous, well that depends on what the terrorist do next, does it not?

If they weaponized something like anthrax, smallpox or the avian flu the death toll could be in the millions or even billions could it not? Or a dozen dirty bombs exploded simultaniously in half a dozen countries, or just one country.

See how uncertainty works to "hype" the threat? Unless we know what the terrorists will use in the next attack how can we estimate the threat?
We're not likely to see deaths in the millions or billions from anthrax. It's not transmitted from human to human, and it can be cured with antibiotics. Smallpox modified with human interleuken 4 (sp?) genes can be seriously lethal.

Are U.S.-European relations really all that bad right now?

Are U.S.-European relations really all that bad right now?
Yeah, we're just one nasty post away from war.

We're not likely to see deaths in the millions or billions from anthrax. It's not transmitted from human to human, and it can be cured with antibiotics. Smallpox modified with human interleuken 4 (sp?) genes can be seriously lethal.

Well, no, not from Anthrax, I just used it due to its name recognition. That could possibly number in the hundreds, maybe in the thousands in a really effective attack. Sorry for not being clearer.

Agreed on smallpox, samples of the original virus used to be sent out on request to certified laboratories and medical centers by the CDC for medical research, I believe this practice has been discontinued.

One of the things Irag had was a medical research laboratory that was the envy of some of the UN investigating team looking for biological weapons research.

Avian flu has ben discoveredf in pigs in China, so we might not have to worry about the terrorist after all.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3583856.stm :(

And you base this opinion on what set of facts?

Lets see if these facts change your thoughts

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/terror-qaeda.html

2/1993 - Bombing of World Trade Center; 6 killed.

10/1993 - Killing of U.S. soldiers in Somalia.

1994 - Investigation of the WTC bombing reveals that it was only a small part of a massive attack plan that included hijacking a plane and crashing it into CIA headquarters.

1/1995 - When a bomb exploded accidentally in a Manila apartment, police uncovered a major terrorist plot. Associates of Osama bin Laden had planned to blow up 12 planes as they flew from Southeast Asia to the U.S., crash another aircraft into CIA headquarters, and kill the pope.


6/1996 - Truck bomb explodes outside Khobar Towers military complex in Saudi Arabia; 19 American servicemen killed, hundreds of others injured.

1997 - Al-Zawahiri is suspected of helping organize the 1997 massacre of 67 foreign tourists in the Egyptian town of Luxor

8/1998 - Bombing of U.S. embassies in East Africa; 224 killed including 12 Americans. Al-Zawahiri is suspected of helping organize these events and was indicted in connection with the bombing of U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya

12/1999 - Plot to bomb millennium celebrations in Seattle foiled when customs agents arrest an Algerian smuggling explosives into the U.S. Other Algerians subsequently arrested were "Afghan alumni."

12/1999 - Jordanian police arrested members of a cell planning attacks against Western tourists.

10/2000 - Bombing of the USS Cole in port in Yemen; 17 U.S. sailors killed.

9/11/2001 - Destruction of WTC, attack on Pentagon.

4/11/2002 - Explosion at ancient synogogue in Tunisia leaves 17 dead, including 11 German tourists.

5/2002 - Car explodes outside hotel in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 14, including 11 French citizens.

6/2002 - Bomb explodes outside American Consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12.

10/2002 - Nightclub bombings in Bali, Indonesia, kill 202, mostly Australian citizens.

10/2002 - Suicide attack on a hotel in Mombasa, Kenya, kills 16.

3/2003 - the U.S. widened the war on terrorism by invading Iraq and deposing Saddam Hussein and his Ba'ath party. Although President Bush asserted that there was a working relationship between Hussein and al-Qaeda, no solid proof of collaboration between them—specifically on the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, or on any other terrorist activities—has emerged. Since then, however, suspected al-Qaeda terrorists have moved into the country and are likely responsible for kidnappings and a string of suicide-bomb attacks. In February 2004, U.S. forces intercepted a letter believed to have been written by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian radical. The letter outlined plans to destabilize Iraq by igniting sectarian conflict between Shia and Sunni Muslims. Al-Zarqawi has been linked to al-Qaeda by U.S. intelligence. However, the relationship between al-Zarqawi is unclear—he has positioned himself as a rival to bin Laden in the past.


5/2003 - Suicide bombers kill 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

5/2003 - Four bombs kill 33 people, targeting Jewish, Spanish, and Belgian sites in Casablanca, Morocco.

8/2003 - Suicide car bomb kills 12, injures 150, at Marriott Hotel in Jakarta, Indonesia.
11/2003 Explosions rock a Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, housing compound killing 17.

8/2003 - Suicide car bombers simultaneously attack two synagogues in Istanbul, Turkey, killing 25 and injuring hundreds. The following week a British bank in Istanbul is bombed.

2/2004 - U.S. forces intercepted a letter believed to have been written by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian radical. The letter outlined plans to destabilize Iraq by igniting sectarian conflict between Shia and Sunni Muslims. Al-Zarqawi has been linked to al-Qaeda by U.S. intelligence. However, the relationship between al-Zarqawi is unclear—he has positioned himself as a rival to bin Laden in the past. Since this time al-Zarqawi has pledged allegence to bin Laden.

3/2004 - Ten terrorists bombs explode almost simultaneously during the morning rush hour in Madrid, Spain, killing 202 and injuring more than 1,400. A Moroccan affiliate of al-Qaeda claims responsibility.

4/2004 - Osama bin Laden offered a truce to Europe, saying that al-Qaeda would not attack any country, with the exception of the U.S., that withdrew its troops from the Islamic world within three months. European leaders quickly rejected the offer.

5/29–31/2004 Terrorists attack the offices of a Saudi oil company in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, then take foreign oil workers hostage in a nearby residential compound. After a stand-off, three of the four assailants escape, leaving 22 people dead, all but three of them foreigners.

6/11–19/2004 Terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson, Jr., an American, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Nearly a week after his capture, photos of his body are posted on an Islamist website. Saudi security forces find and kill four suspected terrorists, including the self-proclaimed military leader of al-Qaeda in Saudi Arabia, after they are seen dumping a body.

12/6/2004 Militants, believed to be linked to Al-Qaeda, drive up to the U.S. consulate in Jiddah, Saudi Arabia, storm the gates, and kill 5 consulate employees, none of whom were American. Saudi security forces subdue the attackers, killing four.

Al-Qaeda differs significantly from more traditional terrorist organizations. It does not depend on the sponsorship of a political state, and, unlike the PLO or the IRA, it is not defined by a particular conflict. Instead, al-Qaeda operates as a franchise. It provides financial and logistical support, as well as name recognition, to terrorist groups operating in such diverse places as the Philippines, Algeria, Eritrea, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Tajikistan, Somalia, Yemen, and Kashmir. Furthermore, local groups may act in the name of al-Qaeda in order to bolster their own reputation—even if they are not receiving support from the organization.


http://www.infoplease.com/spot/terrorism6.html

In the shadowy underworld of international terror, things are not always what they seem. Groups with diverse, even opposing, ideologies and differing goals often help each other when they share a common enemy. And while a terrorist act may be over in a matter of minutes, the planning and the coordination of such an event may take years.

For instance, despite their ideological differences, Middle Eastern terrorist organizations have participated in two international summits—in Beirut, Lebanon, and Teheran, Iran—in the year before the September 11, 2001, attacks, intelligence experts say. Two Palestinians, Musa Abu Marzouq, of Hamas, and Ramadham Abdullah Shallah of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, organized the conferences, which were called "The Jerusalem Project."

The 400 participants pledged to support the Palestinians and seek Arab control over Jerusalem. They also reportedly agreed that the U.S. has become "a second Israel." Attendees included several Iranian diplomats and intelligence officials; representatives of Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda; the Lebanese Hezbollah; and individuals from Algeria, Egypt, Jordan, Qatar, Pakistan, Sudan, and Yemen, and at least one person living in the United States.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4540546/

The Associated Press
Updated: 4:06 p.m. ET March 16, 2004PARIS - Officials are investigating threats issued by a radical Islamic group against France and its overseas interests, the Justice Ministry said Tuesday.

The shadowy group identified itself as the “Servants of Allah the Powerful and Wise,” the ministry said in a statement, adding that the group was unknown to French authorities.

Justice officials did not disclose the nature of the threats, but RTL radio reported that Le Parisien newspaper received a letter threatening Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin over France’s plan to ban Islamic head scarves and other religious apparel in schools.

In the past weeks, French authorities have received terror threats from another little-known group that calls itself AZF.

The group claims to have planted nine bombs along the country’s rail network and has threatened to explode them unless it is paid millions of dollars.

Information from AZF led to the recovery Feb. 21 of an explosive device buried in the bed of a railway line near Limoges in central France.

Since the Sept. 11 attacks against the United States, France has arrested dozens of terror suspects.

Authorities dismantled a terror cell in 2002 with ties to Chechen rebels and al-Qaida that planned bomb or toxic gas attacks in France and Russia. Among the suspected targets was the Russian Embassy in Paris.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041102/D863NRS80.html

11/2004 - A Dutch filmmaker who had received death threats after releasing a movie criticizing the treatment of women under Islam was slain in Amsterdam on Tuesday, police said.

A suspect, a 26-year-old man with dual Dutch-Moroccan nationality, was arrested after a shootout with officers that left him wounded, police said.

Filmmaker Theo van Gogh had been threatened after the August airing of the movie "Submission," which he made with a right-wing Dutch politician who had renounced the Islamic faith of her birth. Van Gogh had received police protection after its release.

Dutch national broadcaster NOS and other media reported that Van Gogh's killer shot and stabbed his victim and left a note on his body.

And lastly
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908746.html

Sounds pretty global to me

Odd how much information there is that refutes your opinion, this only took me a few minutes of googling to find these

Can you cite any source that states that there is NO global terrorist threat? Or is it only in your head that global terrorism does not exist?

If so please try to pull your head out of the sand and educate yourself somewhat before you make such statements.

I repeat that global terrorism as it means now, does not exist.
In your very quote there are dates before 2001, and for what I see, more than past 2001. What does this mean?
Exactly this: global terrorism is nothing but a big lie to keep U.S. in fear of being invaded, killed or maybe subjugated by a group of "nasty" men.

But I don't think it's the right place to do the "otium".

Ciao.

Let's try this:

Can they be mended during the time George W. Bush occupies the White House?


Nope... not unless he's ready to become a girlyman :P

I agree that the problem is overrated and sensationalised, but it does exist, IMO. It's just not as big and dangerous as it is hyped up to be.

Well something exist, but they do exactly what others let them do. I don't think september 11 2001 it's only a "shit that happens", with a great respect of those who died there for a bunch of people who think the end justifies the means.
About global terrorism: they are two words too many times on the lips of politicians in the world. "It would be good our nations to be closer in order to fight global terrorism", "we must stop global terrorism", "our troops invade other countries to stop global terrorism".
Even our Italian troops are in Iraq to "help against terrorism", while it's obvioviusly false. They are there to keep safe ENI's oil wells, even if they are doing a lot for the Iraqi population.

We in Europe don't feel threatened by terrorism because we've lived with it for the last 50 years.

Britain has/had the IRA
Spain and France get Basque seperatists
Germany got just about everything
Italy has the Mafia

Plenty of experts in the field of terrorism studies have continuously expoused that it is impossible for an organised secret terrorist organisation as large as al-Q'aeda to exist, at most Bin Laden provides money to a limited number of operations, and we have no given smaller groups who previously had no 'name' a great deal more power by providing the empty banner of al-Q'aeda for them to claim their very few attacks under.

I also think we have better view of the scale, our chances, and americans chances of dying in a terrorist attack are 1 in millions.

God, how I hope so, but with this embarassingly incompetent aristocrat as our President--I doubt it.

I repeat that global terrorism as it means now, does not exist.
In your very quote there are dates before 2001, and for what I see, more than past 2001. What does this mean?
Exactly this: global terrorism is nothing but a big lie to keep U.S. in fear of being invaded, killed or maybe subjugated by a group of "nasty" men.

But I don't think it's the right place to do the "otium".

Ciao.

Actually you said

Originally Posted by Le Fevre
Global terrorism - in fact - does not exist, in my opinion.

Now your backpedling by trying to qualify it as "as it means now"

I on the other hand was taking your words to mean literally what you said and thought that posting a list of more than a decade of people being killed by terrorists around the world would make the point that it was global in scale.

Appearently for you that is not enough death.

So what would it take in your mind to call it Global?

I don't think Europe feels threatened by terrorism.

Of course we don't. We've been dealing with it for so long it's just not "new hotness" anymore.

They haven't had their 9/11 yet. The Madrid bombings were bad, but not 9/11 bad, and they were attributed to Spanish involvement in the Iraq war. When Europe suffers a massive unprovoked terrorist attack, then it will align itself with the USA.

9/11 wasn't unprovoked - until the US public realises that it will truely have to continue fearing terrorists.

Really, US/Europe relations are not that bad in reality. It's not like the nations of Europe are about to declare war on the US or vice versa.

It's only on this board that things are so bad. Fortunately none of us here are national leaders. Except me.

I quite clearly hate them (the redneck xenophobes). They're a bunch of racist assholes. :mad:
As an American Democrat, I have to agree.

Of course we don't. We've been dealing with it for so long it's just not "new hotness" anymore.

9/11 wasn't unprovoked - until the US public realises that it will truely have to continue fearing terrorists.

Ah! Perhaps wisdom can be found on this board after all.

The trick is in how you say it of course; what I mean to say is this:

Many people in the US are aware that Terrorism is an old, OLD problem, and that 9/11 didn't happen without reason. There is a logical chain of events that is fairly simple to follow that would explain nicely how US intervention caused terror cells to be created that were capable and willing to carry out 9/11 style attacks.

However, the public mindset of the US is devoid of this understanding; and without this crucial grasp of the facts it irrationally fears all manner of things as precived "threats." Many of these threats ARE real, many are not or are greatly exaggerated; and many of the threats that DO exist are ignored.

Many of the US's fears convince them to take action that offends, discomforts, or ignores many allies and friends. As a result of their offense, discomfort, or solitude, the allies have had their outlook of the US soured. The US percieves this worsening of relations and has frequently taken offense over their allies' lack of willingness to tackle the very fears that their allies have faced for years, or the fear that is largely imagined or over-hyped, and yet many threats go unaddressed without comment.

It is no wonder then, why US-Ally relations are at a severe strain. Add to that the nearly legendary skill of the US's current administration to be arrogant to their allies and discomfort even their most staunch of friends and you have a diplomatic time bomb waiting to go off.