NationStates Jolt Archive

But American soldiers are just like overgrown kids.

Now dont get me wrong, Im sympothetic to them, I am deeply saddened by their deaths and injuries.

But do you know how many people join the army saying stuff like "Yeah lets go blow up some Insurgent bastards!" Or something like that. Or how many of them pretend to do gun motions, and who say stuff on camara like "Yeah I like to play music on my headphones when I attack, sometimes as a joke I play the roof is on fire, and watch the little ants squirm as we blow up their homes." Its just kind of pathetic.

you mean the interview on Fah. 9/11?

Yeah those guys were dumbasses.

Source?

But American soldiers are just like overgrown kids.

Now dont get me wrong, Im sympothetic to them, I am deeply saddened by their deaths and injuries.

But do you know how many people join the army saying stuff like "Yeah lets go blow up some Insurgent bastards!" Or something like that. Or how many of them pretend to do gun motions, and who say stuff on camara like "Yeah I like to play music on my headphones when I attack, sometimes as a joke I play the roof is on fire, and watch the little ants squirm as we blow up their homes." Its just kind of pathetic.

Very few.

But American soldiers are just like overgrown kids.

Now dont get me wrong, Im sympothetic to them, I am deeply saddened by their deaths and injuries.

But do you know how many people join the army saying stuff like "Yeah lets go blow up some Insurgent bastards!" Or something like that. Or how many of them pretend to do gun motions, and who say stuff on camara like "Yeah I like to play music on my headphones when I attack, sometimes as a joke I play the roof is on fire, and watch the little ants squirm as we blow up their homes." Its just kind of pathetic.
Now WTF is THIS all about????

They have to. In order for any decent humanbeing to kill someone they must be angry. If they are not they see thier enemy as a humanbeing it they won't be able to kill.

But American soldiers are just like overgrown kids.

Now dont get me wrong, Im sympothetic to them, I am deeply saddened by their deaths and injuries.

But do you know how many people join the army saying stuff like "Yeah lets go blow up some Insurgent bastards!" Or something like that. Or how many of them pretend to do gun motions, and who say stuff on camara like "Yeah I like to play music on my headphones when I attack, sometimes as a joke I play the roof is on fire, and watch the little ants squirm as we blow up their homes." Its just kind of pathetic.

Try very, very few; they have psych profiles done to prevent whackos from enlisting (and most recruits never realize it is being done.) Also, accept that those nifty clips with sadistic stuff aren't the norm. Further accept that people in combat conditions say stuff to feel braver than they really are.

Having "been there, done that, got the tee shirt," I can tell you no one in my unit enjoyed the feeling we got when forced to take lives. We'd have put them in a looney bin if they did.

And, for the record, soldiers the world over are like overgrown kids. Check the average age of an enlistee/draftee in the country of your choice.

Now back to your regularly scheduled rant by people who criticize things they don't fully comprehend.

I do remember reading an article in the Daily (UK) Mail a month or so ago with the sort of behaviour he's mentioned above described.

With particularly younger soldiers (I beleive it was a marine detatchment they were talking about) commenting that parts of the war in iraq were just like playing GTA.

I think it's important to note that this probably isn't the way the majority of troops behave, and as I said, the guys they were talking about were literally like 18 years old.

For those whose behaviour is similar to this, I think given the way violence and war is portrayed in the modern media, it can be understood if not accepted. How many teenagers now might associate the idea of being in iraq with playing a computer game like Counter Strike or anything similar. It's not an attitude that persists with them I'd imagine, its kind of hard to treat war like a computer game when you see the human toll it takes, be it enemy or friendly casualties.

They have to. In order for any decent humanbeing to kill someone they must be angry. If they are not they see thier enemy as a humanbeing it they won't be able to kill.
Unadulterated bullshit.

Unadulterated bullshit.

100 proof.

Pure freebase bullshit.

Now WTF is THIS all about????

I remember in F 9/11 some soliders mentioned that they listen to music (he mention 'the roof is on fire') when they're going into battle to psych themselves up, but that seems to be a slightly exagerated version thats been posted..

Having "been there, done that, got the tee shirt," I can tell you no one in my unit enjoyed the feeling we got when forced to take lives. We'd have put them in a looney bin if they did.

Hooah! CPT, INF, USA ( Retired/Disabled ), Vietnam SEP67-SEP69, Counterinsurgency Ops team commander, 173rd ABN BDE (Separate) Company Commander, etc.

Unadulterated bullshit.

You can ask anyone that is in the physcology profession. There is no way a sane person could kill someone that they know and like. If at the beginning at every war all the people got together and talk about their different point of views then no one could kill the other person.

I remember in F 9/11 some soliders mentioned that they listen to music (he mention 'the roof is on fire') when they're going into battle to psych themselves up, but that seems to be a slightly exagerated version thats been posted..
Sounds to me as if someone has been watching Apocalypse Now too many times, as in the helicopter attack sequence where they were playing "Flight of the Yalkryies" while napalming innocent civilians, children, etc.

You can ask anyone that is in the physcology profession. There is no way a sane person could kill someone that they know and like. If at the beginning at every war all the people got together and talk about their different point of views then no one could kill the other person.
fear is a reason as well.

Sounds to me as if someone has been watching Apocalypse Now too many times, as in the helicopter attack sequence where they were playing "Flight of the Yalkryies" while napalming innocent civilians, children, etc.

Apocalypse Now is nothing but a propaganda smear-fest, plain and simple.

You can ask anyone that is in the physcology profession. There is no way a sane person could kill someone that they know and like. If at the beginning at every war all the people got together and talk about their different point of views then no one could kill the other person.
Who said anything about "knowing and liking" them? Your "if" scenario is one of the least likely I have ever heard.

Apocalypse Now is nothing but a propaganda smear-fest, plain and simple.
You mean kinda like Farenheit 9/11? :)

fear is a reason as well.
Yep

As FDR once said " The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" People always act out with violence or hatered when they fear something or don't understand it.

You mean kinda like Farenheit 9/11? :)

Yes, and also like Platoon. Platoon is the most God-awful piece of shit I have ever seen.

Yes, and also like Platoon. Platoon is the most God-awful piece of shit I have ever seen.
why do you say that?

Yes, and also like Platoon. Platoon is the most God-awful piece of shit I have ever seen.
There were really only two "Vietnam War" films I had any respect for at all ... "A Rumor of War," which was a made-for-TV special, and "Hamburger Hill," which I thought was very well done and reasonably accurate. I wouldn't give you two cents for the rights to ALL the rest!

There were really only two "Vietnam War" films I had any respect for at all ... "A Rumor of War," which was a made-for-TV special, and "Hamburger Hill," which I thought was very well done and reasonably accurate. I wouldn't give you two cents for the rights to ALL the rest!

What about "We Were Soldiers?"

By the way, because you are a Vietnam vet, you have my utmost respect and admiration. :)

why do you say that?

Let's see...dull, boring, slow-paced, inaccurate, and nothing more than anti-American, pro-Hanoi propaganda.

Let's see...dull, boring, slow-paced, inaccurate, and nothing more than anti-American, pro-Hanoi propaganda.

Just curious. Are you a republican?

Just curious. Are you a republican?

Heck, no!

What about "We Were Soldiers?"

By the way, because you are a Vietnam vet, you have my utmost respect and admiration. :)
I'm not sure that's deserved, but thank you very, very much, and may you get everything your lil heart desires this Christmas! :D

"We Were Soldiers" is a much more recent film, which I thoroughly enjoyed and thought was very well done. :)

Heck, no!
Then what are you?

What about "We Were Soldiers?"

By the way, because you are a Vietnam vet, you have my utmost respect and admiration. :)

I'll sort of second that. You don't have my "utmost" respect and admiration, because only I have my utmost respect, being an egotistical ass and all, but you have my respect and admiration as well.

I'm not sure that's deserved, but thank you very, very much, and may you get everything your lil heart desires this Christmas! :D

Thanks, you too. :)

And yes, it is deserved. You guys fought with courage, distinction, and honor, endured unimaginable hell both on the battlefield and off, had to put up with years of leftist smearing, and through it all remained sane and loyal to your country. Lesser men could not have accomplished the feats you guys did.

Then what are you?

An ultra-conservative rightwing nutjob extremist/crackpot conspiracy theorist (no party affiliation, however). :D

An ultra-conservative rightwing nutjob extremist/crackpot conspiracy theorist (no party affiliation, however). :D

huh???

Anyway I knew you had to be somewhere around republican.

huh???

Anyway I knew you had to be somewhere around republican.

Not quite. I'm 100% anti-Republican. ;)

Not quite. I'm 100% anti-Republican. ;)

Then your either a liberal, libitarian, centrist or stanist.

You can ask anyone that is in the physcology profession. There is no way a sane person could kill someone that they know and like. If at the beginning at every war all the people got together and talk about their different point of views then no one could kill the other person.

salute!

Then your either a liberal, libitarian, centrist or stanist.

I lean toward libertarian, except I disagree with them on abortion and drugs.

There were really only two "Vietnam War" films I had any respect for at all ... "A Rumor of War," which was a made-for-TV special, and "Hamburger Hill," which I thought was very well done and reasonably accurate. I wouldn't give you two cents for the rights to ALL the rest!

" A Rumor of War" was an absolutely excellent book.

I lean toward libertarian, except I disagree with them on abortion and drugs.
So your pro-life and for drugs. Interesting.

So your pro-life and for drugs. Interesting.

No, pro-life and against drugs.

So your pro-life and for drugs. Interesting.

Libertarians are for legalizing drugs. If he disagrees with them on drugs, that means he's against their legalization. And against legalization != for drugs.

whoops!!! Sorry I am tired. Well I am a libitarian but I just disagree with them on the drug thing.

But American soldiers are just like overgrown kids.

Now dont get me wrong, Im sympothetic to them, I am deeply saddened by their deaths and injuries.

But do you know how many people join the army saying stuff like "Yeah lets go blow up some Insurgent bastards!" Or something like that. Or how many of them pretend to do gun motions, and who say stuff on camara like "Yeah I like to play music on my headphones when I attack, sometimes as a joke I play the roof is on fire, and watch the little ants squirm as we blow up their homes." Its just kind of pathetic.

Most soldiers are men. Most men are overgrown kids.

This isn't exactly profound. :) Certainly isn't something to hold against them. It's part of the simple process of life:

Girls grow up and become women. Boys get bigger.

uh oh, some one has been listening to micheal moore, he is a fat bastard that likes to make movies based on opinions and unanswerable questions.

I'll sort of second that. You don't have my "utmost" respect and admiration, because only I have my utmost respect, being an egotistical ass and all, but you have my respect and admiration as well.
Sdaeriji! You? An "egotistical ass?" NEVER! :D

Thank you for the "sort of" second! :D

Our soldiers are loud and like their job, of course you would also after some terrorists flew planes into ya'lls building trying to kill your family and friends.

And yes, it is deserved. You guys fought with courage, distinction, and honor, endured unimaginable hell both on the battlefield and off, had to put up with years of leftist smearing, and through it all remained sane and loyal to your country. Lesser men could not have accomplished the feats you guys did.
You're going to make me blush here! Heh! WTF is this ... Vietnam veteran appreciation day? :D

Seriously though, we had our own versions of pain and suffering, true, but the real heros and the people who have truly earned the undying respect and admiration of ALL of us are those who took part in the Normandy invasion and then proceeded to kick the hell out of both Hitler and Tojo. THOSE were real men and women. When I was in Vietnam, I use to pray that I could be half the man each of them were called to be. God. I can't even imagine ... !

Which reminds me ... "Saving Private Ryan" was a great war film, very understanding of what the soldiers went through yet very honest about the realities.

You're going to make me blush here! Heh! WTF is this ... Vietnam veteran appreciation day? :D

Seriously though, we had our own versions of pain and suffering, true, but the real heros and the people who have truly earned the undying respect and admiration of ALL of us are those who took part in the Normandy invasion and then proceeded to kick the hell out of both Hitler and Tojo. THOSE were real men and women. When I was in Vietnam, I use to pray that I could be half the man each of them were called to be. God. I can't even imagine ... !

Which reminds me ... "Saving Private Ryan" was a great war film, very understanding of what the soldiers went through yet very honest about the realities.

WWII vets didn't suffer anywhere near as many the trials you guys did, though. You guys went through a lot more shit.

WWII vets didn't suffer anywhere near as many the trials you guys did, though. You guys went through a lot more shit.
I honestly don't agree, but thank you for the kind thoughts. :)

Sdaeriji! You? An "egotistical ass?" NEVER! :D

Thank you for the "sort of" second! :D

I know, it's hard to imagine me as being anything but humble, but it's true.

I honestly don't agree, but thank you for the kind thoughts. :)

In Vietnam, you usually couldn't tell friends from foes. You had an 'antiwar' (not so much antiwar as it was pro-Hanoi) movement, a pro-communist press, duplicitous politicians who refused to entertain even the notion of letting you guys win, a bunch of Marxist-Leninist gangster historians and film makers smearing the hell out of you, a difficult terrain to fight in, a radically different climate, and much more. And yet, through it all most of you persevered. For that, Vietnam veterans have my utmost respect. :)

In Vietnam, you usually couldn't tell friends from foes. You had an 'antiwar' (not so much antiwar as it was pro-Hanoi) movement, a pro-communist press, duplicitous politicians who refused to entertain even the notion of letting you guys win, a bunch of Marxist-Leninist gangster historians and film makers smearing the hell out of you, a difficult terrain to fight in, a radically different climate, and much more. And yet, through it all most of you persevered. For that, Vietnam veterans have my utmost respect. :)

:blush: Enough! I need to remain my usual humble self and you're in the way! LOL!

I honestly don't agree, but thank you for the kind thoughts. :)
Geez! You and Roach Busters should go get a room!

Anyway, Apocalypse Now is not about Vietnam. It's set in Vietnam, but it's not about Vietnam, not even close.

And it's a bloody great movie.

But American soldiers are just like overgrown kids.

Now dont get me wrong, Im sympothetic to them, I am deeply saddened by their deaths and injuries.

But do you know how many people join the army saying stuff like "Yeah lets go blow up some Insurgent bastards!" Or something like that. Or how many of them pretend to do gun motions, and who say stuff on camara like "Yeah I like to play music on my headphones when I attack, sometimes as a joke I play the roof is on fire, and watch the little ants squirm as we blow up their homes." Its just kind of pathetic.

im sure by now you have seen the error of your ways

you can diss our soldiers when YOU have the guts to do what they do. but of course once you DO have that kind of courage you would never consider criticizing the men and women who keep you safe.

Yes, and also like Platoon. Platoon is the most God-awful piece of shit I have ever seen.

Actually, that was "The Thin Red Line". A movie so bad, after I saw it, I immediately went home and watched "Kelly's Heroes". Not because it was more realistic, but because it made a lot more sense. ;)

im sure by now you have seen the error of your ways

you can diss our soldiers when YOU have the guts to do what they do. but of course once you DO have that kind of courage you would never consider criticizing the men and women who keep you safe.

:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

First off, I want to say that while I am pretty liberal, I agree that Jane Fonda's actions were despicable and if not actually treason pretty damn close. Still, I have to wonder sometimes, when Vietnam vets talk with hatred about anti-war protestors are they angry because they didn't commmitt war crimes, or because they did and believe that they were justified. I mean look at the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth- their whole position is pretty much "there were no war crimes in vietnam and john kerry is a war criminal"

when Vietnam vets talk with hatred about anti-war protestors are they angry because they didn't commmitt war crimes, or because they did and believe that they were justified

I think it's because they didn't commit war crimes, for the most part (that means the overwhelming majority), but were assumed to have because of the lies of anti-war, pro-Left demonstrators. That is, while US soldiers were contending with real atrocities committed by the NVA and Vietcong, they had to come home to accusations of the very same crimes, while the North Vietnamese communists got lauded and applauded.

It's as if the US Army came home from Europe in WW II and found themselves accused of murdering Jews and other civilians, and got spit on for it, by protestors waving Nazi flags.

their whole position is pretty much "there were no war crimes in vietnam and john kerry is a war criminal"

Their whole point is that Kerry defamed his fellow soldiers deliberately and wrongly for political gain, and that if the people who claimed to believe him were true to their word, John Kerry would have been imprisoned for war crimes (instead of being fielded as a candidate for senator and president).

I lean toward libertarian, except I disagree with them on abortion and drugs.

So you are for an unadulterated free market, unlimited gun rights, but you are against abortion and the legalization of drugs. Now just tell me that you are not opposed to civil unions as long as it is up to the states and can never be called marriage, and I will hand you your GOP membership card.

100 proof.

Pure freebase bullshit.
soo, only 50% bullshit? Cause 100% would be 200 proof.

We are all like overgrown kids, its just that soldiers are forced to act in extreme situations and sometimes it becomes blatantly obvious in them. They are in no way different from any of us on here, other than choosing a very dangerous and honorable career choice.

But, you also have to look at the targets of recruitment as well. The army has never been against scraping the bottom of the barrel, so to speak, to maintain recruitment numbers. A great deal of them went from very poor neighborhoods and poor families, straight to training on how to best kill people. So what do you expect?

Edit: and Kramers Intern does not hate to say crap like this, he says it all of the time.

Well, the thing is. People are people. This stuff happens, has always happened, and will always happen.

I utterly despise people who concentrate solely on the political aspect of a war, no one ever looks into it, looking for the beauty of the organization, the equipment, the people who took part. And it seems very few people even consider the volience of war, they only consider what they think is going on based on little or no information, and very little knowladge of warfare in any sense.

As it goes for me, reason wise Vietnam and Iraq were the stupidest "major" wars of recent times. But I don't bother myself with political reasons unless I have to. And having been deeply interested in the military history of the last cantury for all of my life, I regularly take the opertunity to talk to anyone I can who has served in combat.
I have the utmost respect for the Vietnam vets, they went through hell. And I mean vets from both sides.
I have just as much respect for vetrans of the second world war, whatever side they were on, whatever they believed, or whatever they did, they all deserve my repsect for putting themselves into combat, risking their lives for something they believed in.

Although, vetrans of the first world war have the most respect, I've had the honor of talking to one of them in all my life, and I understand there are less then 200 left alive now.
I respect anyone who went through the horrors of the Great War. And I was quite surprised when the last vetran I talked to said he enjoyed talking to me, apparently he liked how I was so interested in what happened, and didn't care about the "Did you kill alot of Germans?" stuff.

You have to stop looking at the ideologies behind wars, they are nothing more then large scale fights. Look at them for what they are, and you'll see, all participants deserve respect. Not many people would sacrafice their youth, "innocence", or lives, willingly for any reason. And those few who do put these things on the line deserve more then I, you, or anyone can ever give them.
People do stupid things in war, that doesn't change what they're doing by being in the war.

Well, the thing is. People are people. This stuff happens, has always happened, and will always happen.

I utterly despise people who concentrate solely on the political aspect of a war, no one ever looks into it, looking for the beauty of the organization, the equipment, the people who took part. And it seems very few people even consider the volience of war, they only consider what they think is going on based on little or no information, and very little knowladge of warfare in any sense.

As it goes for me, reason wise Vietnam and Iraq were the stupidest "major" wars of recent times. But I don't bother myself with political reasons unless I have to. And having been deeply interested in the military history of the last cantury for all of my life, I regularly take the opertunity to talk to anyone I can who has served in combat.
I have the utmost respect for the Vietnam vets, they went through hell. And I mean vets from both sides.
I have just as much respect for vetrans of the second world war, whatever side they were on, whatever they believed, or whatever they did, they all deserve my repsect for putting themselves into combat, risking their lives for something they believed in.

Although, vetrans of the first world war have the most respect, I've had the honor of talking to one of them in all my life, and I understand there are less then 200 left alive now.
I respect anyone who went through the horrors of the Great War. And I was quite surprised when the last vetran I talked to said he enjoyed talking to me, apparently he liked how I was so interested in what happened, and didn't care about the "Did you kill alot of Germans?" stuff.

You have to stop looking at the ideologies behind wars, they are nothing more then large scale fights. Look at them for what they are, and you'll see, all participants deserve respect. Not many people would sacrafice their youth, "innocence", or lives, willingly for any reason. And those few who do put these things on the line deserve more then I, you, or anyone can ever give them.
People do stupid things in war, that doesn't change what they're doing by being in the war.


Bravo......pure genius.....

Who said anything about "knowing and liking" them? Your "if" scenario is one of the least likely I have ever heard.

sadly, as it is by far the most civilised that i have heard so far in this thread

You can ask anyone that is in the physcology profession. There is no way a sane person could kill someone that they know and like. If at the beginning at every war all the people got together and talk about their different point of views then no one could kill the other person.

Physcology profession? :p

You can ask anyone that is in the physcology profession. There is no way a sane person could kill someone that they know and like. If at the beginning at every war all the people got together and talk about their different point of views then no one could kill the other person.
NO, if was the choice of a friend and my child I would not hesitate to kill someone I knew and liked, it all depends on the motivation.

As to the performance of troops, alot of it is down to profesionalism and the attitude of the comand. Get very profesional and business like comanders you endup with a business like and profesional army. I won't quote examples for fear of starting a flame war!
But most people know where the most profesional armies come from and itis not the US.

Just because you see people making idiotic statements in a Michael Moore film doesn't make it possible to generalize that to all soldiers.

I'm sure that we could easily make a film interviewing the people who free animals from labs and burn them down, or the people who riot every time the IMF has a shindig, or the people who lay down in front of shipments of nuclear waste and get them to say something completely stupid.

There are forums I've been on where they are laughing about the "stupid" guy who laid down in front of a shipment of nuclear waste in Germany recently and got his legs chopped off because the train wouldn't stop.

Now, you might blame the government, or the train operator, but on a singularly unbiased basis, that getting your legs cut off in a completely avoidable situation is pretty stupid.

Stupidity is not a unique attribute for humans.

And, it doesn't do your cause any good to call people stupid. Or constantly point out, "look how stupid these guys are". Stupid usually goes without saying.

But American soldiers are just like overgrown kids.

Now dont get me wrong, Im sympothetic to them, I am deeply saddened by their deaths and injuries.

But do you know how many people join the army saying stuff like "Yeah lets go blow up some Insurgent bastards!" Or something like that. Or how many of them pretend to do gun motions, and who say stuff on camara like "Yeah I like to play music on my headphones when I attack, sometimes as a joke I play the roof is on fire, and watch the little ants squirm as we blow up their homes." Its just kind of pathetic.

Such a generalization can only be ignored by anyone who has made it through high school.

And you really think American soldiers are the only ones who do this? First of all, these soldiers you saw in F 9-11 were a select few. Making a generalization from seeing a single-digit amount of soldiers doing something you do not probably insults a lot of people.

Here's some news for you: soldiers kill. Soldiers destroy. Soldiers give their lives for whatever their leaders tell them to. I don't think listening to music as they do these things makes it any worse.

I'm not out to troll but I really don't get the hatred some of you have for any anti-war protestors. While I'll admit that there are definitely people who openly root for the enemy (like all of those Pol Pot supporters in Vietnmam), but I don't see why you're so against those who criticize the reasons behind a war or point out war crimes. One reason why I do blame the Bush administration for war crimes in Iraq and Afganastan as well as at Gitmo is that soldiers come to the table wanting to kill some Arabs (or make it Gooks in Vietnam). Since both insurgents and civilians are of the same race and culture, how can anything better be expected from soldiers who go in hating the culture?

I'm not out to troll but I really don't get the hatred some of you have for any anti-war protestors. While I'll admit that there are definitely people who openly root for the enemy (like all of those Pol Pot supporters in Vietnmam), but I don't see why you're so against those who criticize the reasons behind a war or point out war crimes. One reason why I do blame the Bush administration for war crimes in Iraq and Afganastan as well as at Gitmo is that soldiers come to the table wanting to kill some Arabs (or make it Gooks in Vietnam). Since both insurgents and civilians are of the same race and culture, how can anything better be expected from soldiers who go in hating the culture?

I hate hippies because most of the ones I've ever met, or encountered were morons.
Anti-War protesters are generally misinformed, and I dislike them.
In both ocasions though, I can find a member of that group I like, and those are generally the ones who actually know what's going on and arn't just spewing crap.

My point was that people put too much emphisis on the politics, which is stupid.