NationStates Jolt Archive

Decline of higher education


By Walter E. Williams


College costs have risen dramatically over the last several decades. In many cases, it is difficult to find a college where per-student costs are under $20,000 each year. Most often, tuition does not measure the true cost because taxpayer and donor subsidies pay part of the expenses. While costs are rising, education quality is in precipitous decline, particularly at the undergraduate level. Part of the reason is the political climate on college campuses, where professors use their classrooms for proselytizing and indoctrination and teach classes that have little or no academic content. Let's look at some of it.

In a study to be published in Academic Questions, sociologist Charlotta Stern and economist Daniel Klein found in a random national sample of 1,678 university professors that Democratic professors outnumber Republican professors 3 to 1 in economics, 28 to 1 in sociology and 30 to 1 in anthropology. As George Will said in his Washington Post column, "Academia, Stuck to the Left": "Many campuses are intellectual versions of one-party nations."
That strong campus leftist bias goes a long way to explain mindless university courses like: "Canine Cultural Studies" (University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill), "I Like Ike, But I Love Lucy" (Harvard), "History of Electronic Dance Music" (UCLA), "Rock and Roll" (University of Massachusetts) and "Hip-Hop: Beats, Rhyme and Culture" (George Mason University). There are many other examples documented by Accuracy in Academia.
A Zogby survey was commissioned by the National Association of Scholars (NAS) to compare the general cultural knowledge of today's college seniors to that of yesteryear's high school graduates. The questions for the survey were drawn from those asked by the Gallup organization in 1955 covering literature, music, science, geography and history. The results were reported in a NAS publication titled "Today's College Students and Yesteryear's High School Grads." It finds: "Contemporary college seniors scored on average little or no higher than the high-school graduates of a half-century ago on a battery of 15 questions assessing general cultural knowledge."
A 1990 Gallup survey for the National Endowment of the Humanities, given to a representative sample of 700 college seniors, found that 25 percent did not know that Columbus landed in the Western Hemisphere before the year 1500, 42 percent could not place the Civil War in the correct half-century, and 31 percent thought Reconstruction came after World War II.
In 1993, a Department of Education survey found that, among college graduates, 50 percent of whites and more than 80 percent of blacks could not state in writing the argument made in a newspaper column or use a bus schedule to get on the right bus, 56 percent could not calculate the right tip, 57 percent could not figure out how much change they should get back after putting down $3 to pay for a 60-cent bowl of soup and a $1.95 sandwich, and over 90 percent could not use a calculator to find the cost of carpeting a room. But not to worry. The American Council of Trustees and Alumni's 1999 survey of seniors at the nation's top 55 liberal arts colleges and universities found that 98 percent could identify rap artist Snoop Doggy Dogg and Beavis and Butt-Head, but only 34 percent knew George Washington was the general at the battle of Yorktown.
Americans as donors and taxpayers have been exceedingly generous to our universities. Given our universities' gross betrayal of trust, Americans should rethink their generosity as well as rethink who serves on boards of trustees that, in dereliction of duty, permit universities to become hotbeds of political activism and academic fraud. There are a few universities where there is still integrity and academic honesty, and they don't cost an arm and a leg. Among them are Grove City College, Pa., Hillsdale College, Mich., Franciscan University, Steubenville, Ohio, and others listed at the Web page of Young America's Foundation (www.yaf.org).

Decline of higher education


By Walter E. Williams


College costs have risen dramatically over the last several decades. In many cases, it is difficult to find a college where per-student costs are under $20,000 each year. Most often, tuition does not measure the true cost because taxpayer and donor subsidies pay part of the expenses. While costs are rising, education quality is in precipitous decline, particularly at the undergraduate level. Part of the reason is the political climate on college campuses, where professors use their classrooms for proselytizing and indoctrination and teach classes that have little or no academic content. Let's look at some of it.

In a study to be published in Academic Questions, sociologist Charlotta Stern and economist Daniel Klein found in a random national sample of 1,678 university professors that Democratic professors outnumber Republican professors 3 to 1 in economics, 28 to 1 in sociology and 30 to 1 in anthropology. As George Will said in his Washington Post column, "Academia, Stuck to the Left": "Many campuses are intellectual versions of one-party nations."
That strong campus leftist bias goes a long way to explain mindless university courses like: "Canine Cultural Studies" (University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill), "I Like Ike, But I Love Lucy" (Harvard), "History of Electronic Dance Music" (UCLA), "Rock and Roll" (University of Massachusetts) and "Hip-Hop: Beats, Rhyme and Culture" (George Mason University). There are many other examples documented by Accuracy in Academia.
A Zogby survey was commissioned by the National Association of Scholars (NAS) to compare the general cultural knowledge of today's college seniors to that of yesteryear's high school graduates. The questions for the survey were drawn from those asked by the Gallup organization in 1955 covering literature, music, science, geography and history. The results were reported in a NAS publication titled "Today's College Students and Yesteryear's High School Grads." It finds: "Contemporary college seniors scored on average little or no higher than the high-school graduates of a half-century ago on a battery of 15 questions assessing general cultural knowledge."
A 1990 Gallup survey for the National Endowment of the Humanities, given to a representative sample of 700 college seniors, found that 25 percent did not know that Columbus landed in the Western Hemisphere before the year 1500, 42 percent could not place the Civil War in the correct half-century, and 31 percent thought Reconstruction came after World War II.
In 1993, a Department of Education survey found that, among college graduates, 50 percent of whites and more than 80 percent of blacks could not state in writing the argument made in a newspaper column or use a bus schedule to get on the right bus, 56 percent could not calculate the right tip, 57 percent could not figure out how much change they should get back after putting down $3 to pay for a 60-cent bowl of soup and a $1.95 sandwich, and over 90 percent could not use a calculator to find the cost of carpeting a room. But not to worry. The American Council of Trustees and Alumni's 1999 survey of seniors at the nation's top 55 liberal arts colleges and universities found that 98 percent could identify rap artist Snoop Doggy Dogg and Beavis and Butt-Head, but only 34 percent knew George Washington was the general at the battle of Yorktown.
Americans as donors and taxpayers have been exceedingly generous to our universities. Given our universities' gross betrayal of trust, Americans should rethink their generosity as well as rethink who serves on boards of trustees that, in dereliction of duty, permit universities to become hotbeds of political activism and academic fraud. There are a few universities where there is still integrity and academic honesty, and they don't cost an arm and a leg. Among them are Grove City College, Pa., Hillsdale College, Mich., Franciscan University, Steubenville, Ohio, and others listed at the Web page of Young America's Foundation (www.yaf.org).


No where does it state anywhere that leftist controlled education. So this is just another baseless attack on the left?

The article goes in depth about how standards in education are low, but it fails to show that liberal bias causes standards to drop. In short, it's worthless propaganda.

undoubtedly. but i also know that the political right-wing traditionally wanted to severely limit the amount of education made available to children attending inner-city (read: black) schools. Don't give the disenfranchised the tools for betterment, else they rise above their station, went that old argument.

Except when you go to the national level, its the Republicans who refuse to fund education. So, instead of looking at our College professors and some of the silly classes they teach (some of which are legit for art majors) why don;t we go to ur federal government, which, at the moment is controlled by Republicans. If you want to increase teh wuality of education, go get it in the budget. Thats also after you convince them that its not a stupid social program.


Don't blame the leftists that teach, blame the rightests that control how much money the leftists get.

Decline of higher education

Among them are Grove City College, Pa., Hillsdale College, Mich., Franciscan University, Steubenville, Ohio, and others listed at the Web page of Young America's Foundation (www.yaf.org).

Hillsdale college....w00t

Speaking of intellectual standards, the leftists were able to see that the article didn't connect the dots and prove it's point. The right winger was oblivious.

Except when you go to the national level, its the Republicans who refuse to fund education. So, instead of looking at our College professors and some of the silly classes they teach (some of which are legit for art majors) why don;t we go to ur federal government, which, at the moment is controlled by Republicans. If you want to increase teh wuality of education, go get it in the budget. Thats also after you convince them that its not a stupid social program.


Don't blame the leftists that teach, blame the rightests that control how much money the leftists get.

Colleges need not be funded by the governemnt....that is why i am paying 25k a semester.....and.....higher learning institutions are what is being discussed in this thred, as compared to Past secondary school graduates.....read the post

The numbers dont lie, the majority of teachers are leftist, the majority of leftist teachers push they're agendas, the majority of they're students dont know simple things that they should know.

the only political mention in any of my classes was last year, when my modern physics prof took 2 minutes to encourage us to vote in the provincial election (he did this the day of the election) he even said that it didn't matter who we voted for, so long as we voted. hardly partisan...

during th presidential elections, my porfessor had one of those surveys that we could use the controllers to answer....the question was who will you vote for, and he had the right answer as john kerry...don't tell me that is bipartisan...

The numbers dont lie, the majority of teachers are leftist, the majority of leftist teachers push they're agendas, the majority of they're students dont know simple things that they should know.

So failing to teach basic knowledge is in the leftist agenda, is it? I would never have guessed... :rolleyes:

This isn't leftist education. Leftist education has the minimum tuitions possible, just enough to keep the courses running and teachers paid.

This is capitalist education, using useless courses as products that are sold to the clouded american masses.

Capitalism isn't necessarily right-winged or left-winged, it's making the most profit out of things, be it at the expense of workers, the people that the products go to, the general populace or the environment. One thing is true though, right wing policies (no care for humans or the environment) help capitalism a lot. Just look at Bush and how the rich are getting richer, the poor getting poorer and the natural reserves of the US and the world being destroyed.

Don't be ignorant.

Alright, but can you state in writing the arguement made by this article?
Properly calculate a tip? Ummm, price carpet? Find, um, a... bus?

These are not the things I came to college for, I don't know about the other people who read these forums. After I leave I probably won't know the answers to any of his history questions, because I don't like history and english and that hasn't changed since I came to college. I've found that I can fill many of my electives with economics classes instead of extra english or history ones.

How was this survey carried out, by the way? If some creapy old guy asked me these seemingly random questions in the street, they would have to add the statistic "45% of students surveyed kicked my in the groinal region and ran for their lives."

The numbers dont lie, the majority of teachers are leftist, the majority of leftist teachers push they're agendas, the majority of they're students dont know simple things that they should know.
Okay. Which is why none of my Democratic teachers try and convince us to vote democratic but all of my republican teachers constantly tell us that the leftists are wrong.

Who is pushing who's agenda?

On the subject of funding - State Schools are funded by the government as well as by your tuition money. It costs a lot to run a college. So, take away the private colleges which can do whatever they want - you don;t have to go there if you don't like the courses. Move to the state schools - give them more money to do things and you might see better classes.

That strong campus leftist bias goes a long way to explain mindless university courses like: "Canine Cultural Studies" (University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill), "I Like Ike, But I Love Lucy" (Harvard), "History of Electronic Dance Music" (UCLA), "Rock and Roll" (University of Massachusetts) and "Hip-Hop: Beats, Rhyme and Culture" (George Mason University). There are many other examples documented by Accuracy in Academia.
so there are odd, specialized courses. i'm sure those institutions also have astrophysics classes and organic chemistry and an assortment of classes on shakespeare and chaucer as well. you can't judge the curriculum of an entire school on a couple electives.

A 1990 Gallup survey for the National Endowment of the Humanities, given to a representative sample of 700 college seniors, found that 25 percent did not know that Columbus landed in the Western Hemisphere before the year 1500, 42 percent could not place the Civil War in the correct half-century, and 31 percent thought Reconstruction came after World War II.
In 1993, a Department of Education survey found that, among college graduates, 50 percent of whites and more than 80 percent of blacks could not state in writing the argument made in a newspaper column or use a bus schedule to get on the right bus, 56 percent could not calculate the right tip, 57 percent could not figure out how much change they should get back after putting down $3 to pay for a 60-cent bowl of soup and a $1.95 sandwich, and over 90 percent could not use a calculator to find the cost of carpeting a room. But not to worry. The American Council of Trustees and Alumni's 1999 survey of seniors at the nation's top 55 liberal arts colleges and universities found that 98 percent could identify rap artist Snoop Doggy Dogg and Beavis and Butt-Head, but only 34 percent knew George Washington was the general at the battle of Yorktown.
so americans are idiots...

we learned about columbus in grade 6. finding the argument in a piece of writing is not necessary for all areas of study, you dont' learn how to read bus schedules at school, that's something you figure out on your own and i see mentally challenged people on the bus all the time, so i'm sure you'd have to be pretty stupid not to be able to figure out how to read a bus schedule. these things aren't necessarily indicators of a lack of book smarts.

and those others are right, the author failed to provide a link between liberal professors and graduates being idiots.

The numbers dont lie, the majority of teachers are leftist, the majority of leftist teachers push they're agendas, the majority of they're students dont know simple things that they should know.
ever heard of circular logic? you should look it up.

Colleges need not be funded by the governemnt....that is why i am paying 25k a semester.....and.....higher learning institutions are what is being discussed in this thred, as compared to Past secondary school graduates.....read the post
really?

my government chips in and i only pay a little over $4000 cdn for the entire year. i like my system. i'm assuming that by past secondary you mean post secondary... which encompasses everything after highschool... including "higher learning institutions"

College costs have risen dramatically over the last several decades. In many cases, it is difficult to find a college where per-student costs are under $20,000 each year.

Prices go up you say? Why by golly, I remember when a loaf of bread cost only a nickel! It must be the damn liberals who made bread go up to $1.00! Damn the liberals and their control of the bread loaf making machine! Damn them all to Hell!

That strong campus leftist bias goes a long way to explain mindless university courses like: "Canine Cultural Studies" (University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill), "I Like Ike, But I Love Lucy" (Harvard), "History of Electronic Dance Music" (UCLA), "Rock and Roll" (University of Massachusetts) and "Hip-Hop: Beats, Rhyme and Culture" (George Mason University). There are many other examples documented by Accuracy in Academia.

You're right ... this sucks ... let's go back to the 1950s when a woman's only hope of advancing in University was to major in Home Economics so that she could fill that all important role of being Mrs. Joe American. Perhaps we should return to a time when the practice of medicine was limited to the experience of the flesh and not of the creative mind - which gave us such damned ugly liberal advances as immunization, daily bathing, anti-biotics, and fluoridated toothpaste. Damn those liberals! Damn them all to Hell!

A Zogby survey was commissioned by the National Association of Scholars (NAS) to compare the general cultural knowledge of today's college seniors to that of yesteryear's high school graduates. The questions for the survey were drawn from those asked by the Gallup organization in 1955 covering literature, music, science, geography and history. The results were reported in a NAS publication titled "Today's College Students and Yesteryear's High School Grads." It finds: "Contemporary college seniors scored on average little or no higher than the high-school graduates of a half-century ago on a battery of 15 questions assessing general cultural knowledge."

The average college graduate of today couldn't pass a mid-level final exam from the 1700s either ... what's your point? Times change, knowledge changes. Let's examine a high school textbook from the 1950s, shall we? Oh look! I have one here! It was my dad's! Neat ... now let's see ... it's a Health text ... oh look .. reknowned Dr. Evert Shrump says that, "Masterbation will invariably lead to criminal activities such as rape and theft." Oh how horrible that those liberals changed such learned ways. Damn them all to Hell!

I think I'll stop now ... this is making me sick. Repeal the Age of Reason! NOW! Damn them Liberals!

really?

my government chips in and i only pay a little over $4000 cdn for the entire year. i like my system. i'm assuming that by past secondary you mean post secondary... which encompasses everything after highschool... including "higher learning institutions"

yeah, thats what I pay (cdn) too, plus living expenses, etc.
is the 25K tuition and living expenses or just tuition?

The numbers dont lie, the majority of teachers are leftist, the majority of leftist teachers push they're agendas, the majority of they're students dont know simple things that they should know.
a lot of the simple things that the graduates don't know are things that they should have learned in elementary school. there are even things in there that aren't taught in school at all (reading bus schedules) and really, if you're talking to people who never take the bus, then that would explain why they can't read the schedules.

if you're interviewing an arts student, they might not know history, hell, if i asked you to draw a free body diagram of all the forces acting on my pen as it sits on my desk, you might not know how to do that? why not? it's so simple anyone should know how to... however, if you didn't take science classes past grade 10 (when they stop requiring them here) then you wouldn't have taken a specialized physics class and would not know how to do so.

those factoids aren't indications of idiocy of lowered standards. if anything, it coudl be specilization. a math major doesn't care when columbus set sail. doesn't mean he couldnt' integrate circles around most anyone and preform some complex calculations..

Alright, but can you state in writing the arguement made by this article?
Properly calculate a tip? Ummm, price carpet? Find, um, a... bus?

These are not the things I came to college for, I don't know about the other people who read these forums. After I leave I probably won't know the answers to any of his history questions, because I don't like history and english and that hasn't changed since I came to college. I've found that I can fill many of my electives with economics classes instead of extra english or history ones.

How was this survey carried out, by the way? If some creapy old guy asked me these seemingly random questions in the street, they would have to add the statistic "45% of students surveyed kicked my in the groinal region and ran for their lives."

I'm not sure how the survey was carried out,
Want to check the validity?
http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20041216-081424-1321r.htm

You only notice that your being urged to do somthing, if the urging is differnt from what your used to. Pushing evolution, thats a leftist veiw(not a great example, but a major one). Eviromentalist stuff(leftist view). Fudging facts about our history, and down playing the rolls of our heros(leftist view) Pushing for affirmative action(leftist view) You dont really notice its there, because its always been there, you think thats how things are supposed to be.
I've had good teachers, I've had bad teachers, the good ones, teach solid, known facts, the bad ones, teach theories, and ideas, without bringing up the counterpoint, the opposite view.
Thats what's happening, people are getting so brainwashed, that they cant comprehend whats going on, and think that fluffy little ideals are gonna work in the real world. And think that thier ideals are whats best for everyone. And then if they dont get thier way, pout, whine, cry, demand recounts, and move to other countries.
It takes years for them to grow out of it, and overcome that brainwashing, sadly, many never do.

Another study showing Left leaning education system (http://studentsforacademicfreedom.org/archive/December2004/ACTAsurveypressrelease120604.htm)

There have actually be several studies made which showed that the education system is rank with liberal professors and that there is an active movmenet to supress the addition of concervative ones to the faculties.

You only notice that your being urged to do somthing, if the urging is differnt from what your used to. Pushing evolution, thats a leftist veiw(not a great example, but a major one). Eviromentalist stuff(leftist view). Fudging facts about our history, and down playing the rolls of our heros(leftist view) Pushing for affirmative action(leftist view) You dont really notice its there, because its always been there, you think thats how things are supposed to be.

I can understand pushing evolution. I can understand environmentalist stuff. However, I seriously doubt that fudging facts about American history is a leftist view.

Another study showing Left leaning education system (http://studentsforacademicfreedom.org/archive/December2004/ACTAsurveypressrelease120604.htm)

There have actually be several studies made which showed that the education system is rank with liberal professors and that there is an active movmenet to supress the addition of concervative ones to the faculties.

That's fine and wonderful, but that still doesn't prove a link between liberalism and the declining education system.

Liberals and conservatives. That's all you americans think about. The ones that let people do what they want or the ones that want to impose their morals onto others.


You people are so blindfolded it hurts.

You only notice that your being urged to do somthing, if the urging is differnt from what your used to. Pushing evolution, thats a leftist veiw(not a great example, but a major one).
no it's not. it's a scientific theory. it's a scientific view, backed by years and years of research. science is not political at all, it is the analysis of fact...

Eviromentalist stuff(leftist view).
no, environmental science is a science. i don't see how it's leftist to start with. we all live on this planet. and hell, if you ask my roommate who is in environmental science, you'd know that most of the shit they learn is rock formation, plate techtonics, the water cycle et c. nothing political at all.

Fudging facts about our history, and down playing the rolls of our heros(leftist view)
umm... right...

I've had good teachers, I've had bad teachers, the good ones, teach solid, known facts, the bad ones, teach theories, and ideas, without bringing up the counterpoint, the opposite view.
Thats what's happening, people are getting so brainwashed, that they cant comprehend whats going on, and think that fluffy little ideals are gonna work in the real world. And think that thier ideals are whats best for everyone. And then if they dont get thier way, pout, whine, cry, demand recounts, and move to other countries.
It takes years for them to grow out of it, and overcome that brainwashing, sadly, many never do.
...?

if i'm not mistaken, recounts are permissable in the u.s. and hell, they're just counting ballots... you want to make sure the person who was elected actually won the most votes, don't you?

and i'm pretty sure i've seen as many if not more right wingers tryign to push what's "right for everyone" i.e. making gay sex illegal, same with gay marriage, making pot illegal (a substance with no fatalities that's as addictive as this message board) et c.

Pushing evolution, thats a leftist veiw(not a great example, but a major one). Eviromentalist stuff(leftist view).

Oh lawdy! Oh lawdy! We have to stop those horrible liberals! We must go back to a time when the motto of the education system was, "Knowledge is only power through God"! We must remind our college students that Jesus gave them dominion over the Earth so they should chop down as much rain forest and destroy as many native civilizations as possible in order to further God's cause of a giant global desert! Oh lawdy stop these liberals now!

This thread isn't propaganda . . . it's flame-baiting.

If you want to assault the left, at least try to back some of your claims up . . .

Now that I think about it, I now believe that the original poster is in fact a lefty. He's/she's just trying to make the righty's look stupid by posting this, so it would make his/her side look better.

Liberals and conservatives. That's all you americans think about. The ones that let people do what they want or the ones that want to impose their morals onto others.


You people are so blindfolded it hurts.

Auctually its not so simple.

Theres the ones that want to turn america into a communist state, where the government controls every aspect of our lives, taking all our money, and giving us what they think we need, essintially turning us into what they claim to hate, slaves.

The other, wants everyone to be free to live thier own life, with little to no taxes, little to no goverment intrusion on our lives, just protection from the forces in the world.

Auctually its not so simple.

Theres the ones that want to turn america into a communist state, where the government controls every aspect of our lives, taking all our money, and giving us what they think we need, essintially turning us into what they claim to hate, slaves.

The other, wants everyone to be free to live thier own life, with little to no taxes, little to no goverment intrusion on our lives, just protection from the forces in the world.

Heh, I think you may have proved his point there.

I was surprised that specialized courses were tied to a decline in educational standards, since I would think that the Universities that can afford such blow-off courses are those which are well-funded and have more educated students. I guess that that poster would rather Universities teach something important like arithmatic. Interestingly, there was an article in the Chicago Tribune just like that were someone wrote in and said that while "hard subjects" are taught by Conservatives and "soft subjects" are taught by Liberals. What I don't get though is that Conservatives go around saying that any science that contradicts their views is Liberal. If science isn't a hard subject I don't know what is. One last thing, I wish people would stop using the term leftists. It's not like liberals in America go around quoting Marx so it really doesn't make sense to refer to them as if they are some sort of extremist group. I don't see a lot of liberals refering to conservatives as Rightists or Reactionaries.

Auctually its not so simple.

Theres the ones that want to turn america into a communist state, where the government controls every aspect of our lives, taking all our money, and giving us what they think we need, essintially turning us into what they claim to hate, slaves.

The other, wants everyone to be free to live thier own life, with little to no taxes, little to no goverment intrusion on our lives, just protection from the forces in the world.
?

i'm assuming liberals are the first description and conservatives are the second.

i would prepose that well, first of all liberals do not advocate that the government take all our money and make us slaves... that's just you being an idiot.

secondly, conservatives do not advocate beign able free to live their own lives. if they were, then they wouldn't get so pissy about gay marriage and drug use.

The numbers dont lie, the majority of teachers are leftist, the majority of leftist teachers push they're agendas, the majority of they're students dont know simple things that they should know.

That's a fallacy.
Before you can use it in an argument, you must first prove that leftists push "they're" agendas, and then prove that that is the cause of the problem.

In my humblest of opinions, might it be the fact that in right-wing grade school we weren't taught any of the basics?
Just something to chew on.

The numbers dont lie, the majority of teachers are leftist, the majority of leftist teachers push they're agendas, the majority of they're students dont know simple things that they should know.

The numbers are bullshit.

The fact you say the "lefties" are pushing an agenda says you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Teachers/Professors come in all varities. You get conservative Republicans pushing agendas. You get Democrat liberals pushing agendas.

Most simply TEACH!!!!!!!!!

I have had poly sci professors and history professors who refused to discuss their political views.

The best one I every had was a fellow from Kentucky. You could not guess what political ideology he belived. The theory we had was that he was a Republican New Dealer. He simply laughed. ;)

Fact is schools are the way they are. There is waste in schools just like there is waste in goverments and business!

Sorry but no grand conspiracy so you can take the tin foil hat off.

no it's not. it's a scientific theory. it's a scientific view, backed by years and years of research. science is not political at all, it is the analysis of fact...


no, environmental science is a science. i don't see how it's leftist to start with. we all live on this planet. and hell, if you ask my roommate who is in environmental science, you'd know that most of the shit they learn is rock formation, plate techtonics, the water cycle et c. nothing political at all.


umm... right...


...?

if i'm not mistaken, recounts are permissable in the u.s. and hell, they're just counting ballots... you want to make sure the person who was elected actually won the most votes, don't you?

and i'm pretty sure i've seen as many if not more right wingers tryign to push what's "right for everyone" i.e. making gay sex illegal, same with gay marriage, making pot illegal (a substance with no fatalities that's as addictive as this message board) et c.

Gay marriage is not a political issue, its a christian issue. Marriage isnt American, its christian. It says in the bible homosexuality is a sin, if the christians dont allow gay marriage, the goverment is not allowed to force it.
Gay sex, is a medical issue, and its not just gay sex, is sodemy, ask any docter, its dangerous, and spreads deisese.
Pot is an addicting drug, with similar problems as ciggaretes, should it be illegal? I dont think so, a lot of people dont think so, but thats not a major issue, its illegal in most countries.

Recounts are fine, but there should be a limit, not 5 recounts, plus bringing it before the supreme court, before they will finally admit to a loss. Why are they so convinced the other side is cheating? Is it because throughout the entire history of thier party, they've been liers, manipulators, and cheaters themselves? And cant fathom that not all people are like them?

And I'm not talking about enviromental science, im talking about blaming global warming on polution, when polution is at an all time low since the dawn of the industrial era, theres other issues, but I'm tired of talking, I know I can never convince you, theres no point. Eventually, after you've lost the argument, you will just leave, pout for awhile, and come back for more

really?

my government chips in and i only pay a little over $4000 cdn for the entire year. i like my system. i'm assuming that by past secondary you mean post secondary... which encompasses everything after highschool... including "higher learning institutions"

I capitalized past to emphasize a time frame...as in the past....ie in the 40s 50s etc...

Gay marriage is not a political issue, its a christian issue. Marriage isnt American, its christian. It says in the bible homosexuality is a sin, if the christians dont allow gay marriage, the goverment is not allowed to force it.

Marriage is not solely a Christian institution.


Gay sex, is a medical issue, and its not just gay sex, is sodemy, ask any docter, its dangerous, and spreads deisese.

The exact same can be said about regular vaginal intercourse


Pot is an addicting drug, with similar problems as ciggaretes, should it be illegal? I dont think so, a lot of people dont think so, but thats not a major issue, its illegal in most countries.

Not true, cigarettes are far worse.


Recounts are fine, but there should be a limit, not 5 recounts, plus bringing it before the supreme court, before they will finally admit to a loss.

Why not? What's a valid limit for you? When your side has won?


Why are they so convinced the other side is cheating? Is it because throughout the entire history of thier party, they've been liers, manipulators, and cheaters themselves? And cant fathom that not all people are like them?

Fallacy.


And I'm not talking about enviromental science, im talking about blaming global warming on polution, when polution is at an all time low since the dawn of the industrial era, theres other issues, but I'm tired of talking, I know I can never convince you, theres no point. Eventually, after you've lost the argument, you will just leave, pout for awhile, and come back for more

You don't have a leg to stand on. There are plenty of people with your viewpoints who can debate them logically. You aren't one of them.

Okay. Which is why none of my Democratic teachers try and convince us to vote democratic but all of my republican teachers constantly tell us that the leftists are wrong.

Who is pushing who's agenda?

Funny. All my Democrat teachers tended to give lower grades or give a hard time to those they knew were Republican.

The Republicans were far more fair and balanced. You know, giving grades based on merit, rather than party affiliation.

Oh, and quite a few people here are perfect example as to why our education system, frankly, sucks. They need remedial English and/or keyboarding skills.

I'm not sure how the survey was carried out,
Want to check the validity?
http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20041216-081424-1321r.htm

You only notice that your being urged to do somthing, if the urging is differnt from what your used to. Pushing evolution, thats a leftist veiw(not a great example, but a major one). Eviromentalist stuff(leftist view). Fudging facts about our history, and down playing the rolls of our heros(leftist view) Pushing for affirmative action(leftist view) You dont really notice its there, because its always been there, you think thats how things are supposed to be.
I've had good teachers, I've had bad teachers, the good ones, teach solid, known facts, the bad ones, teach theories, and ideas, without bringing up the counterpoint, the opposite view.
Thats what's happening, people are getting so brainwashed, that they cant comprehend whats going on, and think that fluffy little ideals are gonna work in the real world. And think that thier ideals are whats best for everyone. And then if they dont get thier way, pout, whine, cry, demand recounts, and move to other countries.
It takes years for them to grow out of it, and overcome that brainwashing, sadly, many never do.

SNIFF SNIFF SNIFF

Hmmmmm me thinks we have a Christian Conservative here.

My how patronizing of you. People can't think for themselves. People only parrot what the teacher says.... :rolleyes:

"Pushing evolution?" :rolleyes: Yes its called biology and physical anthropology. Creationism belongs in a philosophy class or a comparative Religions class..

"Evinronmentalis stuff" :rolleyes:

Making up history and downplaying events? Hmmm reading Ann Coutler are we? Let me tell you somehting. She barely knows WTF she is talking about.

Bad teachers teach theory. Ok you really don't know what you are talking about.

Ahhh but then again I have probably been brainwashed. :rolleyes:

Funny. All my Democrat teachers tended to give lower grades or give a hard time to those they knew were Republican.

The Republicans were far more fair and balanced. You know, giving grades based on merit, rather than party affiliation.


Ha...a friend and i tested this theory (friend is lib i am conserv)......we have accounting cycle projects and we did the exact same work...i had let it be known in class what my beliefs were.....we did the exact same work on our projects....to a t....and i got mine graded 8 points lower....low enough to make me get a c in the class....

Gay marriage is not a political issue, its a christian issue. Marriage isnt American, its christian. It says in the bible homosexuality is a sin, if the christians dont allow gay marriage, the goverment is not allowed to force it.

Well then, you have no argument against civil unions. Good.

Gay sex, is a medical issue, and its not just gay sex, is sodemy, ask any docter, its dangerous, and spreads deisese.

No sexual contact will spread "deisese". I've never even heard of "deisese".

I believe you mean "disease"...
Any sexual contact, and even plenty of non-sexual contact, can spread disease.

Pot is an addicting drug, with similar problems as ciggaretes, should it be illegal?

Except "ciggarettes" are far worse than marijuana.

I dont think so, a lot of people dont think so, but thats not a major issue, its illegal in most countries.

Wait, so since it's illegal, you'll leave it that way, even though you don't want it to be?

The numbers dont lie, the majority of teachers are leftist, the majority of leftist teachers push they're agendas, the majority of they're students dont know simple things that they should know.
How does it follow that leftist teachers = ignorant students? That's like me saying that texans wear cowboy hats and the KKK hates blacks. One has nothing to do with the other.

Auctually its not so simple.

Theres the ones that want to turn america into a communist state, where the government controls every aspect of our lives, taking all our money, and giving us what they think we need, essintially turning us into what they claim to hate, slaves.

The other, wants everyone to be free to live thier own life, with little to no taxes, little to no goverment intrusion on our lives, just protection from the forces in the world.


Comrades! He is on to the plan!

Don't worry plausible deniablity is still in place!

Gay marriage is not a political issue, its a christian issue. Marriage isnt American, its christian. It says in the bible homosexuality is a sin, if the christians dont allow gay marriage, the goverment is not allowed to force it.

Yep a Christian.

Gay marriage is a political issue. Karl Rove leaped all over it to motivate the evangalistas to get out and vote.


Gay sex, is a medical issue, and its not just gay sex, is sodemy, ask any docter, its dangerous, and spreads deisese.

Do you even know how aids started? Hate to tell you it didn't magically appear in gays. You can get HIV from straight hetro sex.


Pot is an addicting drug, with similar problems as ciggaretes, should it be illegal? I dont think so, a lot of people dont think so, but thats not a major issue, its illegal in most countries.

Ohhh really. Ever look at a compariason between pot and what goes into a cig? Sorry you don't know if you think they are the same.


Recounts are fine, but there should be a limit, not 5 recounts, plus bringing it before the supreme court, before they will finally admit to a loss. Why are they so convinced the other side is cheating? Is it because throughout the entire history of thier party, they've been liers, manipulators, and cheaters themselves? And cant fathom that not all people are like them?

Recounts are allowed and should be allowed since "mistakes" happen all the time *coughs* Florida. The demos do it as well. Forgot which state had many dead people voting.


And I'm not talking about enviromental science, im talking about blaming global warming on polution, when polution is at an all time low since the dawn of the industrial era, theres other issues, but I'm tired of talking, I know I can never convince you, theres no point. Eventually, after you've lost the argument, you will just leave, pout for awhile, and come back for more
Oh come on now. Do offer your arguments. Hmm you going to raise the Reagan claim of cow farting? :rolleyes:

Funny. All my Democrat teachers tended to give lower grades or give a hard time to those they knew were Republican.

The Republicans were far more fair and balanced. You know, giving grades based on merit, rather than party affiliation.

Oh, and quite a few people here are perfect example as to why our education system, frankly, sucks. They need remedial English and/or keyboarding skills.

Yea right.

A teacher is good or bad because of their skills. Party affiliation has no merit.

As to people's writing skills? If you judge intelligence on that level, then you are an idiot. Many brilliant people were horrible writers. Even the great writers had editors and proofreaders.

Gay marriage is not a political issue, its a christian issue. Marriage isnt American, its christian. It says in the bible homosexuality is a sin, if the christians dont allow gay marriage, the goverment is not allowed to force it.
marriage is also a civil institution. hell, the christian church didn't even get involved in marriages (outside of for record keeping) until some time in the middle ages when it started to become fashionable to have a priest attend, then later preside over a wedding. later on it became mandatory for a priest to preform marriages.

furthermore, marriage existed long before christianity did.

Gay sex, is a medical issue, and its not just gay sex, is sodemy, ask any docter, its dangerous, and spreads deisese.
with lube and care, it's not dangerous. within a monogomous relationship with a condom there is no disease spreading.

there is no more danger from anal sex than from vaginal sex so long as you care enough about your partner and yourself to take care when you do so.

Pot is an addicting drug, with similar problems as ciggaretes, should it be illegal? I dont think so, a lot of people dont think so, but thats not a major issue, its illegal in most countries.
1. pot is not physically addictive, nicotine is.
2. pot is psychologically addictive, as is this forum, as are chat rooms, as is gambling, as is chocolate. are any of those illegal?
3. it is physically impossible to die from a thc overdose. you would need to consume something like 4,000 ounces of pot in one sitting... the same cannot be said for alcohol, which is perfectly legal.
4. if ingested rather than smoked, pot does not cause lung cancer.
5. pot does not cause permanent brain damage unless you consume near lethal doses in one sitting. as mentioned in 3, this is impossible to do accidently... if you concentrated the thc in 4,000 ounces and injected it, maybe.

And I'm not talking about enviromental science, im talking about blaming global warming on polution, when polution is at an all time low since the dawn of the industrial era, theres other issues, but I'm tired of talking, I know I can never convince you, theres no point. Eventually, after you've lost the argument, you will just leave, pout for awhile, and come back for more
your ignorance astounds me.

there is much scientific evidence that the current round of climate change is not natural. in previous shifts to warmer temperatures, the temperature change was much more gradual. this suggests that something is going on this time that wasn't going on before. since we're pumping greehouse gases into the atmosphere, this appears to be a likely cause.

and if i've lost, why didn't you mention my point on evolution? why didn't you say anything other than absolute hatefilled dribble at my comment on recounts? why is it that you don't know fuck-all about pot? why is it that you're resorting to ad homeneim arguments?

*Controversial View Alert*

Maybe there is a reason that there are more liberal professors than conserative professors. Maybe liberals are just more intelligent.

*Less Controversial Views*

1. Cannabis is only as dangerous as cigarettes because it is smoked with tobacco. If taken in some other form, it is less dangerous.

2. Gay sex is only slightly more dangerous than straight sex. Chances are, most doctors will tell you that all sex is dangerous when safe sex practices are not used ie. condom etc. Also, I doubt that gay sex is any more dangerous than cigarettes, which are completely legal.

3. Marriage isn't Christian, several other religions have it.

4. Pollution is at an all time low since the beginning of the industrial era? Sources? Evidence? Reliable evidence?

5. Liberal does not equal communist.

Go lefties go!!!

SNIFF SNIFF SNIFF

Hmmmmm me thinks we have a Christian Conservative here.

My how patronizing of you. People can't think for themselves. People only parrot what the teacher says.... :rolleyes:

"Pushing evolution?" :rolleyes: Yes its called biology and physical anthropology. Creationism belongs in a philosophy class or a comparative Religions class..

"Evinronmentalis stuff" :rolleyes:

Making up history and downplaying events? Hmmm reading Ann Coutler are we? Let me tell you somehting. She barely knows WTF she is talking about.

Bad teachers teach theory. Ok you really don't know what you are talking about.

Ahhh but then again I have probably been brainwashed. :rolleyes:

Christian? Not really, I just believe that relgions should be left alone. No I have nothing against civil unions, I dont really care, the way I see it, gays leave more women for me ;)

Oh so sorry, I messpelt a word, its been proven that contagions exist in the anus, and can be transmited, I'm not saying I'm an advocate for the illigalization of sodomy, I'm just stating that theres medical grounds.

Abortion is another issue that I feel strongly about(a girl in my speech class just gave a VERY graphic demonstration as the final) Needless to say, after viewing the facts, I'm very sickend by the whole thing, if you want, I can give examples, pictures, stories, etc... Of what it reall is, but you wont be able to sleep for a week, and I know I wont be able to.


Never read Ann Coutler, but I guess I should, I've just been comparing old history books, to new ones., reading old novels, old books, comparing to new ones. And come up with my own conclusions

I shoot down evolution, because the theory is so full of holes, there is so little auctual evidence, thats its just easy.
Creation on the other hand, requires no evidence, god said let it be, and it was.
Do not be confused I'm more of an anarchist then anything, I like to shoot holes in all theories.

*Controversial View Alert*

Maybe there is a reason that there are more liberal professors than conserative professors. Maybe liberals are just more intelligent.


*cough*thin ice*cough*

Ha...a friend and i tested this theory (friend is lib i am conserv)......we have accounting cycle projects and we did the exact same work...i had let it be known in class what my beliefs were.....we did the exact same work on our projects....to a t....and i got mine graded 8 points lower....low enough to make me get a c in the class....
Would copying your work explain your different grades?

Would copying your work explain your different grades?

Naaaw, that couldn't be it...
Oh wait!
Maybe you're on to something!

:D

Would copying your work explain your different grades?

I considered that but if it that was the case then both grades would have been lowered.

Christian? Not really, I just believe that relgions should be left alone. No I have nothing against civil unions, I dont really care, the way I see it, gays leave more women for me ;)
so it's the lesbians you have a problem with then?

Oh so sorry, I messpelt a word, its been proven that contagions exist in the anus, and can be transmited, I'm not saying I'm an advocate for the illigalization of sodomy, I'm just stating that theres medical grounds.
aids is absorbed in the following places during sex, the vaginal wall, the foreskin and the rectum. therefore, unprotected heterosexual sex (even with for a circumcised male... often a little is left) is just as dangerous. the only thing that increases the risk with anal sex is the lack of lubricant and thinner tissue in the rectum making it vulnerable to tears, however, this can happen for vaginal sex as well, and if care is taken in both situations (and lube is properly used) then all is well.

Abortion is another issue that I feel strongly about(a girl in my speech class just gave a VERY graphic demonstration as the final) Needless to say, after viewing the facts, I'm very sickend by the whole thing, if you want, I can give examples, pictures, stories, etc... Of what it reall is, but you wont be able to sleep for a week, and I know I wont be able to.
iv'e probably seen them. pro-lifers have a tendency to show fetuses at 3 months and say they're 1 month and the like. they'll show a fetus aborted for the medical health of a woman and claim that it was elective. that a removed fetus that was dead in-utero was aborted...

and i assure you, any of those stories are better than the stories of coathanger abortions preformed by desperate women.

I shoot down evolution, because the theory is so full of holes, there is so little auctual evidence, thats its just easy.
Creation on the other hand, requires no evidence, god said let it be, and it was.
Do not be confused I'm more of an anarchist then anything, I like to shoot holes in all theories.
well, part of science is to "shoot down" theories, however, i assure you that evolution is based on a lot of evidence, there are complete fossil records for a number of species. it happened and still happens, there's no doubt about that. it's the mechanism and details that are really theory...

and saying god did it is very lazy and not science. if you're learning about evolution, chances are you're in a science class... even anthropology is a science to an extent...

I considered that but if it that was the case then both grades would have been lowered.
Not necessarily, there might be some bias involved (ie the proff trusted the other guy more, but didn't have any real proof), but it's far from proof that he's biased towards liberals.

I considered that but if it that was the case then both grades would have been lowered.
Well, perhaps both papers weren't identical. After all, if they were they would obviously have been accused of cheating. Perhaps the minor differences between the two assignments would account for the 8 grading points of difference.

I considered that but if it that was the case then both grades would have been lowered.
and you wouldve been lucky to only lose 8 pts

I considered that but if it that was the case then both grades would have been lowered.
maybe your way of letting your opinions known was a little more abrasive than your friend's...? or maybe your prof thought you more intelligent than your papers suggested and expected mroe of you.

and actually, when my bf went to college, one of his profs didn't mark things. they just gave out a mark based on class participation and whether they thought the person was a good student. if you handed in a blank file you'd get the same mark as if you worked on it for hours and turned out 12 pages. my bf presented himself as intelligent (he is too smart for what he was taking) and so he got a's. whereas some of his other classmates fucked around in class and would get c's... maybe your prof saw you fucking around and talking about politics that weren't relevant to the course material and gave you a lower grade without reading your work.

Other helpful sources: None Dare Call it Education by John Stormer and The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America by Charlotte Thomson-Iserbyt.

Colleges need not be funded by the governemnt....that is why i am paying 25k a semester.....and.....higher learning institutions are what is being discussed in this thred, as compared to Past secondary school graduates.....read the post

25K a SEMESTER! Shit. I went to one of Canada's Ivy League-quality Universities (Dalhousie University) and 25K is how much my tuition was for my entire 4-year degree!

All hail government subsidies in education! I Heart Socialism!

That's fine and wonderful, but that still doesn't prove a link between liberalism and the declining education system.

sorry.. i wasn't trying to link liberalism with the decline of the education system.. just that liberalism dominates it.. the decilne of the education system is clearly because states have control of education instead of the federal government.. few standards exists linking education from one state to another and those that do are ineffective at best. As well states have shown their incapacity to properly fund education which is why those poor states in the south have the worst enducation nationwide...

sorry.. i wasn't trying to link liberalism with the decline of the education system.. just that liberalism dominates it.. the decilne of the education system is clearly because states have control of education instead of the federal government.. few standards exists linking education from one state to another and those that do are ineffective at best. As well states have shown their incapacity to properly fund education which is why those poor states in the south have the worst enducation nationwide...

Yes, well the original purpose of this thread was to link liberalism in education to the decline of education.

Yeah why dont we look at the brilliant Red staters with there high IQs!

All I have to say is that Liberals are wrong about sueing for, just about everything! Its getting ridiculous!

Excuse me but I seem to have misunderstood something - he's accusing left wingers, who advocate increased government spending on education, of being responsible for America's shoddy education system?

Course, let's just forget the fact that extreme right wingers would have no state education because the poor are 'inferiour beings who do not need to learn things to work as slaves. Muahahaha!'

The reason there are more Liberal professors than Republican is probably because Republicans tend to choose careers which will get them money and nothing else, whilst Liberals are less concerned with money, and if your intelligent enough to be a professor you could probably get a job that paid better.

Oh, and Kramer Russians do tend to be very well educated - the average person can engage in deep discussion about classical literature in Russia.

All I have to say is that Liberals are wrong about sueing for, just about everything! Its getting ridiculous!
Yes, because we all know that is strictly a liberal phenomena... :rolleyes:

It balances out the Rightist controlled media destroying our country.

I shoot down evolution, because the theory is so full of holes, there is so little auctual evidence, thats its just easy.



Can you tell me the holes you speak of so I can cover them for you? It's the theory of evolution, not hypothesis. Which means there is proof.



Creation on the other hand, requires no evidence, god said let it be, and it was.


And who heard him say this?

Auctually its not so simple.

Theres the ones that want to turn america into a communist state, where the government controls every aspect of our lives, taking all our money, and giving us what they think we need, essintially turning us into what they claim to hate, slaves.

The other, wants everyone to be free to live thier own life, with little to no taxes, little to no goverment intrusion on our lives, just protection from the forces in the world.

Is it just me or does anyone else think that the only way to be free from taxes/government intrusion/the world is to willingly become a slave (or possibly be thrust into slavery unwillingly)?

Auctually its not so simple.

Theres the ones that want to turn america into a communist state, where the government controls every aspect of our lives, taking all our money, and giving us what they think we need, essintially turning us into what they claim to hate, slaves.

The other, wants everyone to be free to live thier own life, with little to no taxes, little to no goverment intrusion on our lives, just protection from the forces in the world.
you mean the real republicans and the imaginary republicans?

sorry.. i wasn't trying to link liberalism with the decline of the education system.. just that liberalism dominates it.. the decilne of the education system is clearly because states have control of education instead of the federal government.. few standards exists linking education from one state to another and those that do are ineffective at best. As well states have shown their incapacity to properly fund education which is why those poor states in the south have the worst enducation nationwide...

Actually, yes the intent was to link liberals with the decline of the education system. I suggest you do some re-reading.

Also, has anyone on the Right ever thought that the reason why these highly educated people might be liberal is because they have seen more and understand more of the world and realize that conservative ideals are a bunch of nonsense. And then there's the money issue. Teaching doesn't pay as much and wouldn't attract very many conservatives. Conservatives seem to steer away from educating the young. Can they really be trusted to take care of something they turn their noses at? May I also remind you we have had more Republicans in power than Dems over the last generation.

The 'educated' usually make 'educated' decisions and becoming liberal was apparently one of them.

I think that's an SAT question. "Liberal is to educated, as conservative is to _______."

Since education is one of the most important factors in the development of a nation, and since the US is still the largest economy of the world.. then are you blaming the "leftist controlled education system" of putting you on top? O.o

Hell, blow it to hell, for all i care, its your country :p

Though reducing the acessibility to education to your population, in the long run, would also bring certain economical... disadvantages :p

In a study to be published in Academic Questions, sociologist Charlotta Stern and economist Daniel Klein found in a random national sample of 1,678 university professors that Democratic professors outnumber Republican professors 3 to 1 in economics, 28 to 1 in sociology and 30 to 1 in anthropology. As George Will said in his Washington Post column, "Academia, Stuck to the Left": "Many campuses are intellectual versions of one-party nations."


now why don't those republicans start teaching then?
have W set an example.

me and my friend have compiled some quite interesting statistics on divorces and education vs the swing of a state
State Educ. Rank Decision 2004 Strength Education ranking from:
Alabama 44 63% Bush GOP Morgan Quitno Press
Alaska 45 62% Bush GOP State and City Ranking Publications
Arizona 48 55% Bush GOP
Arkansas 36 54% Bush ***
California 43 55% Kerry D
Colorado 21 53% Bush ***
Connecticut 2 55% Kerry D
Delaware 27 53% Kerry ***
Florida 39 52% Bush ***
Georgia 38 59% Bush GOP
Hawaii 42 54% Kerry ***
Idaho 29 68% Bush GOP
Illinois 24 55% Kerry D
Indiana 17 60% Bush GOP
Iowa 8 50-50 ***
Kansas 15 62% Bush GOP
Kentucky 37 60% Bush GOP
Louisiana 46 57% Bush GOP
Maine 11 53% Kerry ***
Maryland 18 56% Kerry D
Massachusetts 1 62% Kerry D
Michigan 31 51% Kerry* ***
Minnesota 7 51% Kerry* ***
Mississippi 47 60% Bush GOP
Missouri 26 54% Bush ***
Montana 10 59% Bush GOP
Nebraska 13 67% Bush GOP
Nevada 49 51% Bush* ***
New Hampshire 14 50% Kerry* ***
New Jersey 4 53% Kerry ***
New Mexico 50 50% Bush* ***
New York 6 58% Kerry D
North Carolina 25 56% Bush GOP
North Dakota 19 63% Bush GOP
Ohio 20 51% Bush* ***
Oklahoma 40 66% Bush GOP
Oregon 35 52% Kerry ***
Pennsylvania 9 51% Kerry ***
Rhode Island 23 60% Kerry D
South Carolina 32 58% Bush GOP
South Dakota 22 60% Bush GOP
Tennessee 42 57% Bush GOP
Texas 33 61% Bush GOP
Utah 28 71% Bush GOP
Vermont 3 59% Kerry D
Virginia 12 54% Bush ***
Washington 30 53% Kerry ***
West Virginia 33 56% Bush GOP
Wisconsin 5 50% Kerry* ***
Wyoming 16 69% Bush GOP
(out of 50)
Average Ranking Of ALL GOP States 29.73

Average Ranking Of ALL DEM States 20.27

Avg. Ranking Of STRONG GOP (55%+) 30.86

Avg. Ranking Of STRONG DEM (55%+) 15

Divorce Rank State Decision 2004 Divorce Rate DivorceReform.org
51 Nevada 50% Bush 6.8 U.S. Census Bureau
40 New Mexico 50% Bush 5.1
9 Iowa 50% Bush 3.2
38 New Hampshire 50% Kerry 5
12 Wisconsin 50% Kerry 3.2
26 Ohio 51% Bush 4
24 Michigan 51% Kerry 3.9
13 Minnesota 51% Kerry 3.3
37 Oregon 51% Kerry 4.9
11 Pennsylvania 51% Kerry 3.2
39 Colorado 52% Bush 5.1
44 Florida 52% Bush 5.4
32 Missouri 53% Bush 4.3
4 North Dakota 53% Bush 2.7
25 Delaware 53% Kerry 4
23 Maine 53% Kerry 3.9
17 New Jersey 53% Kerry 3.5
36 Washington 53% Kerry 4.5
50 Arkansas 54% Bush 6.6
33 Virginia 54% Bush 4.3
5 Connecticut 54% Kerry 2.9
22 Hawaii 54% Kerry 3.8
30 Arizona 55% Bush 4.2
31 California 55% Kerry 4.3
8 Illinois 55% Kerry 3.2
35 North Carolina 56% Bush 4.5
42 West Virginia 56% Bush 5.2
6 Maryland 56% Kerry 3
19 Louisiana 57% Bush 3.6
41 Tennessee 57% Bush 5.2
21 Georgia 58% Bush 3.8
18 South Carolina 58% Bush 3.5
7 New York 58% Kerry 3
3 Montana 59% Bush 2.6
27 Vermont 59% Kerry 4
49 Indiana 60% Bush 6.4
46 Kentucky 60% Bush 5.5
45 Mississippi 60% Bush 5.4
14 Rhode Island 60% Kerry 3.3
16 South Dakota 60% Bush 3.4
29 Texas 61% Bush 4.1
28 Alaska 62% Bush 4.1
10 Kansas 62% Bush 3.2
2 Massachusetts 62% Kerry 2.4
43 Alabama 63% Bush 5.3
15 Oklahoma 66% Bush 3.4
20 Nebraska 67% Bush 3.7
47 Idaho 68% Bush 5.6
48 Wyoming 69% Bush 6.1
34 Utah 71% Bush 4.4
1 District of Columbia 90% Kerry 2.3

Blue States average Divorce rate 3.6

Red States average Divorce rate 4.5 (25% higher)

Strong Blue (>55% Kerry) 3.2

Strong Red (>55% Bush) 4.4 (38% higher)


Blue States average Divorce Rank 18

Red States average Divorce Rank 31
Strong Blue (>55% Kerry) 12
Strong Red (>55% Bush) 30

i apologize for any formatting problems
therefore, the first one debunks any idea of liberals making a bad education system, for since education systems are generally controlled by locals, its not hard to see that having republicans forming a local majority is directly tied to a less successful education system

me and my friend have compiled some quite interesting statistics on divorces and education vs the swing of a state
State Educ. Rank Decision 2004 Strength Education ranking from:
Alabama 44 63% Bush GOP Morgan Quitno Press
Alaska 45 62% Bush GOP State and City Ranking Publications

etc



What a confusing array of numbers.

Couldn't you post a link? There are plenty out there with this information.

What has students not knowing shit got to do with political bias?

i apologize for the lack of a link, the first number is % votes for kerry and the second is % votes for prez. bush

What has students not knowing shit got to do with political bias?
read the name of the topic

The numbers dont lie, the majority of teachers are leftist, the majority of leftist teachers push they're agendas, the majority of they're students dont know simple things that they should know.
"the majority of leftist teachers push they're agendas"? The numbers say nothing of the sort. Do you not think it is possible to be a leftist (or right-wing for that matter) and NOT try to brainwash your students into your doctrine?

You only notice that your being urged to do somthing, if the urging is differnt from what your used to. Pushing evolution, thats a leftist veiw(not a great example, but a major one). Eviromentalist stuff(leftist view). Fudging facts about our history, and down playing the rolls of our heros(leftist view) Pushing for affirmative action(leftist view) You dont really notice its there, because its always been there, you think thats how things are supposed to be.

I've had good teachers, I've had bad teachers, the good ones, teach solid, known facts, the bad ones, teach theories, and ideas, without bringing up the counterpoint, the opposite view.

Thats what's happening, people are getting so brainwashed, that they cant comprehend whats going on, and think that fluffy little ideals are gonna work in the real world. And think that thier ideals are whats best for everyone. And then if they dont get thier way, pout, whine, cry, demand recounts, and move to other countries.

It takes years for them to grow out of it, and overcome that brainwashing, sadly, many never do.
Teaching evolution and environmental protection isn't a leftist view, it's a scientific view. Downplaying American heroes is nowhere on the leftist agenda. It hasn't always been there. 50 years ago, American academia was dominated by conservatives.

Indeed. This can apply to both right and left wing teachers.

Oh no, they're getting brainwashed by the leftist "re-education" centres are they? When will the American Right stop whining? They control the entire US government, most of the media and most of the business world. And yet still that is not enough rightist hegemony for them.

PS. for an example of "fluffy little ideals" that don't work in the real world, look no further than the entire neo-conservative manifesto.

www.newamericancentury.org

This is capitalist education, using useless courses as products that are sold to the clouded american masses.

Capitalism isn't necessarily right-winged or left-winged,
Actually, the free market is the basis of all right-wing thought. Also remember there is more to right-wing principles than the US Republican party.

First off, the tutions started sky rocketing...afer..after which President resigned...and which one was inaugerated? Oh.

It was when the Administration was "Leftist" when an education to a public college/university was cheap compared to today's cost.

Auctually its not so simple.

Theres the ones that want to turn america into a communist state, where the government controls every aspect of our lives, taking all our money, and giving us what they think we need, essintially turning us into what they claim to hate, slaves.

The other, wants everyone to be free to live thier own life, with little to no taxes, little to no goverment intrusion on our lives, just protection from the forces in the world.
I'm guessing you're referring to liberals (you have got to be fooling yourself if you think they're communists) and libertarians. But where do the conservatives come into this?

Blue States average Divorce Rank 18

Red States average Divorce Rank 31
Good, but this in itself means nothing. Red states have more marriages, so naturally they will have more divorces : what matters is the ratio of marriages to divorces.

I'm not left-wing or right-wing. In fact, the left-right political scale is bullshit.

So is this article and most of the comments supporting it. Come on, people. I've been on forums with "conservatives" that were a lot smarter than the ones here. What's the deal?

Oh, wait, all the intellegent "conservatives" are smart enough to know that the article is bullshit.

The authoritarian/libertarian scale, in addition to the left/right scale is much better to understand how politicians work. I am more libertarian than anything. If I was in the government, I would allow people to do whatever they wanted as long as they didn't mess with the lives of others in any negative way. That includes corporate corruption, which is too common in capitalism.

Good, but this in itself means nothing. Red states have more marriages, so naturally they will have more divorces : what matters is the ratio of marriages to divorces.

http://www.ncpa.org/pd/social/pd111999g.html

The Divorce rates in red states are HIGHER. IN RATES, AND NOT NUMBRES, FUCKER. JUST ACCEPT IT.

http://www.ncpa.org/pd/social/pd111999g.html

The Divorce rates in red states are HIGHER. IN RATES, AND NOT NUMBRES, FUCKER. JUST ACCEPT IT.
Stop flaming and read what I said.

Good, but this in itself means nothing. Red states have more marriages, so naturally they will have more divorces : what matters is the ratio of marriages to divorces.
that it is
the rank is based on the other number, which is divorces per thousand marriages
so it does mean something

Decline of higher education


By Walter E. Williams


College costs have risen dramatically over the last several decades. In many cases, it is difficult to find a college where per-student costs are under $20,000 each year. Most often, tuition does not measure the true cost because taxpayer and donor subsidies pay part of the expenses. While costs are rising, education quality is in precipitous decline, particularly at the undergraduate level. Part of the reason is the political climate on college campuses, where professors use their classrooms for proselytizing and indoctrination and teach classes that have little or no academic content. Let's look at some of it.

In a study to be published in Academic Questions, sociologist Charlotta Stern and economist Daniel Klein found in a random national sample of 1,678 university professors that Democratic professors outnumber Republican professors 3 to 1 in economics, 28 to 1 in sociology and 30 to 1 in anthropology. As George Will said in his Washington Post column, "Academia, Stuck to the Left": "Many campuses are intellectual versions of one-party nations."
That strong campus leftist bias goes a long way to explain mindless university courses like: "Canine Cultural Studies" (University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill), "I Like Ike, But I Love Lucy" (Harvard), "History of Electronic Dance Music" (UCLA), "Rock and Roll" (University of Massachusetts) and "Hip-Hop: Beats, Rhyme and Culture" (George Mason University). There are many other examples documented by Accuracy in Academia.
A Zogby survey was commissioned by the National Association of Scholars (NAS) to compare the general cultural knowledge of today's college seniors to that of yesteryear's high school graduates. The questions for the survey were drawn from those asked by the Gallup organization in 1955 covering literature, music, science, geography and history. The results were reported in a NAS publication titled "Today's College Students and Yesteryear's High School Grads." It finds: "Contemporary college seniors scored on average little or no higher than the high-school graduates of a half-century ago on a battery of 15 questions assessing general cultural knowledge."
A 1990 Gallup survey for the National Endowment of the Humanities, given to a representative sample of 700 college seniors, found that 25 percent did not know that Columbus landed in the Western Hemisphere before the year 1500, 42 percent could not place the Civil War in the correct half-century, and 31 percent thought Reconstruction came after World War II.
In 1993, a Department of Education survey found that, among college graduates, 50 percent of whites and more than 80 percent of blacks could not state in writing the argument made in a newspaper column or use a bus schedule to get on the right bus, 56 percent could not calculate the right tip, 57 percent could not figure out how much change they should get back after putting down $3 to pay for a 60-cent bowl of soup and a $1.95 sandwich, and over 90 percent could not use a calculator to find the cost of carpeting a room. But not to worry. The American Council of Trustees and Alumni's 1999 survey of seniors at the nation's top 55 liberal arts colleges and universities found that 98 percent could identify rap artist Snoop Doggy Dogg and Beavis and Butt-Head, but only 34 percent knew George Washington was the general at the battle of Yorktown.
Americans as donors and taxpayers have been exceedingly generous to our universities. Given our universities' gross betrayal of trust, Americans should rethink their generosity as well as rethink who serves on boards of trustees that, in dereliction of duty, permit universities to become hotbeds of political activism and academic fraud. There are a few universities where there is still integrity and academic honesty, and they don't cost an arm and a leg. Among them are Grove City College, Pa., Hillsdale College, Mich., Franciscan University, Steubenville, Ohio, and others listed at the Web page of Young America's Foundation (www.yaf.org).


...no one said you had to go to a 'leftist' college.

Do not be confused I'm more of an anarchist then anything, I like to shoot holes in all theories.
Hold on, what? Did a Bush supporter just call himself an anarchist!? Dude, the neocons are about as far away as you can get from anarchism this side of Stalin.

Ha...a friend and i tested this theory (friend is lib i am conserv)......we have accounting cycle projects and we did the exact same work...i had let it be known in class what my beliefs were.....we did the exact same work on our projects....to a t....and i got mine graded 8 points lower....low enough to make me get a c in the class....
Maybe you got a lower grade for copying, you fool!

All hail government subsidies in education! I Heart Socialism!
Yeah, the government is currently paying for my education, I f*cking love it!

that it is
the rank is based on the other number, which is divorces per thousand marriages
so it does mean something
It is? I couldn't tell because it wasn't specified. A few weeks ago there was the spam about how red states had almost solidly more divorces per 1000 people than blue states. Take this chart, and you'll see what I'm talking about. Divorce rate is not always calculated as per thousand marriages, but rather just plain per 1000 people.

http://tinypic.com/m39kp

Stop flaming and read what I said.

Why don't you read what I posted? Do you know what a rate is? Did you go to that website? It was stating the precentages of marraiges in certain states that end in divorce. THAT'S A RATIO.

Why don't you read what I posted? Do you know what a rate is? Did you go to that website? It was stating the precentages of marraiges in certain states that end in divorce. THAT'S A RATIO.
Actually, it was saying divorces per 1000 people, not percentage of marraiges. To quote the website :
Nationally, there were about 4.2 divorces for every thousand people in 1998.
Nice try pretending that you actually read the site, though.

Hmm. Hoisted by my own petard.

Though it doesn't really matter...

What's worse, not getting married, or getting married and then getting divorced?

The morality issue is the still the same. Marraige is taken less seriously and there are more divorces because of it

Actually, it was saying divorces per 1000 people, not percentage of marraiges. To quote the website :

Nice try pretending that you actually read the site, though.

This seems an odd way of taking a survey of divorce rates.

1) Why take it per 1000 people? Why count people for divorce if they weren't married in the first place?

2) If it was per 1000 people wouldn't it score blue states higher for divorce since blue states have higher populations? Or does population even matter? I suppose if blue states have more long-term non-married couples it would certain skew things since 'divorce' doesn't include 'break-ups'. But then 'marriage' comes with a different moral implication than a mere long-term relationship. Maybe I just showed that marriage isn't for everyone and veered a bit off topic. Maybe I should create a new thread...

I have to admit I'm lousy at statistics (which is why I tend to steer away from posting them). Any insight?

This seems an odd way of taking a survey of divorce rates.

1) Why take it per 1000 people? Why count people for divorce if they weren't married in the first place?
No idea.

2) If it was per 1000 people wouldn't it score blue states higher for divorce since blue states have higher populations? Or does population even matter?
Population dosen't matter - because a higher-population state might have more overall divorces and marriages, the fact that there are more 1000's of people to divide that number does not skew it towards smaller or larger states.

Oh, wait, all the intellegent "conservatives" are smart enough to know that the article is bullshit.

Well said. You've hit it right on the nail. That article is bullshit.

Oh, wait, all the intellegent "conservatives" are smart enough to know that the article is bullshit.

Where have I heard that logic before?

Oh yeah "The Silent Majority"

How's it going Rev. Falwell?