NationStates Jolt Archive

They were also operating the lend-lease programme giving support to the USSR prior to Pearl Harbour, and their escorting of convoys in the west Atlantic prior to that shows that it was not solely the attack which caused them to help.

Yet, Canada did the same thing.. and we don't think Europe owes us any thing..

Canadian war factories were safe from bombing. Canada became an arsenal, and was Britain's chief overseas supplier of war materiel.

Canada did not accept American Lend-Lease aid. Actually Canada ran its own lend-lease program for its allies called "Mutual Aid", supplying its allies with four billion dollars worth of war materiel. A further credit of a billion dollars was given to Britain.

Per capita, Canada gave more than the USA.

Yet, Canada did the same thing.. and we don't think Europe owes us any thing.

Well, it didn't technically - it entered the war in September of 39 and so there was no false position of neutrality, unlike the US, which is what I was commenting on, rather than the whole 'X owes Y' debate.

The war in Iraq was, without a doubt, a massive blunder and should never have happened. However, Europe OWES the US big time and should commit all available troops to supporing our efforts in Iraq and Afganistan. They owe us not only because we saved them in 2 World Wars, but because we defended them throughout the Cold War. Our massive millitary is the reason they can have small ones, which is why they can afford their socialist public welfare programs. Furthermore, their assistance could improve the situation in the Middle East, certainly the world will be worse off if the US fails than if we succeed. So is there any reasonable arguement that European nations that refuse to pull their weight are anything beyond ungrateful cowards that have more concern for oil prices than the welfare of the world?
And the US owes Europe for reading,writing,existing,TV (Where would you be without that?), Christianity (Where would you be without that?), Guns (Where would you be without them?). Etc etc etc.
Get a life.

You smashed Japan into a bloody pulp even though it tried to surrender! Then you completely annihalted their own culture.

If I were Japanese, the last thing I would be is grateful.

And if Stalin had taken Europe, I think you would have had another World War on your hands.

we smashed their culture how? by making them the industrial giant they are today? after we bombed them, we REBUILT them. we didnt shove our own beliefs down their throats.

you have NO knowledge of the pacific theater, and Japan would not have surrendered until the last Jap died. btw, they were developing biological weapons and would've dropped it on us had we not bombed them first

The war in Iraq was, without a doubt, a massive blunder and should never have happened. However, Europe OWES the US big time and should commit all available troops to supporing our efforts in Iraq and Afganistan. They owe us not only because we saved them in 2 World Wars, but because we defended them throughout the Cold War. Our massive millitary is the reason they can have small ones, which is why they can afford their socialist public welfare programs. Furthermore, their assistance could improve the situation in the Middle East, certainly the world will be worse off if the US fails than if we succeed. So is there any reasonable arguement that European nations that refuse to pull their weight are anything beyond ungrateful cowards that have more concern for oil prices than the welfare of the world?
All this American whining is getting extremely old. We're helping you out a lot more than you want to believe.

I think that all Europeans owe us their first-born sons.

And you owe us the ability to write that. And your daughter

you have NO knowledge of the pacific theater, and Japan would not have surrendered until the last Jap died. btw, they were developing biological weapons and would've dropped it on us had we not bombed them first
Japan did surrender several times before the A-Bombs were dropped. Just America did not like the conditions of the surrender (Japan wanted to keep her empire for the time being). Maybe Japan was developing bio-weapons, but what capabitility did they have to drop them on America?

Japan did surrender several times before the A-Bombs were dropped. Just America did not like the conditions of the surrender (Japan wanted to keep her empire for the time being). Maybe Japan was developing bio-weapons, but what capabitility did they have to drop them on America?
During WWII Japan used helium baloons to dump plague infected fleas on the west coast of the USA. They failed to hit major cities because the balloons were not guided. They could only drift with the prevailing winds. If they had kept trying, perhaps with more deadly diseases, they could have hit us hard.

The only problem I have is that America pays 22% of the UN budget, but not once does the blame go on a different country than America. A car bomb in some third world country in Africa? Don't follow the South Park suggestion, Blame America!

1) Well actually we do have some of our holdings: Gibraltar, Northern Ireland, the Falkland Isles and some other isles. Not to mention Canada, Australia and New Zealand who still hold the Queen as head of state willingly.

2) Well actually the 2nd World War ended in 1945 so yes we have been to war since 1941. And by the way, of the Allied forces in Europe 2 million were Americans but 1 million were British. Oh yes and then there was the Suez Canal crisis where America forced Britain to surrender our territory through the threat of economic sanctions. Then there was the Falkland Isles and the two Iraq wars. The reason we have no empire left is because of America - because after WW2 you threatened to impose ecomoic sanction on us unless we granted the colonies independce. So we were forced to rush out of Africa, leaving barely any plans or infrastructure behind. So in reality Britain has more reason to hate you than love you.

3) The pound is still far stronger than your Mickey Mouse dollar or the Donald Duck euro and is still considerable a far more viable currency than either of them. And actually I think it was meant to mean a pound of gold, you ignorant red kneck. And by the way its the EU not EC.

4) You are calling us that?! Ha! At least most of our people can point the USA out on a map. If you handed one of your redneck Texan friends a map, he probably couldn't point out the UK. Or the USA for that matter. He'd probably just dribble on it.

5) Yes but that didn't stop us from ruling 1/4 of the world, creating the first truly capitalist society, creating the first industrialised economy and from creating America did it?

I actually am beginning to pity some Americans. They have to live in the same country as you.
1) Well have you seen what happens to Brits in Northen Ireland, they get killed, the Irish don't need you there.
2)Yeah because we don't like empires, empires allways hurt the colonies in favor for the "motherland" even though the native of the area are in their homland. You see america prefers to allign with those she would like to protect and council, ie Japan, Philipines, South Korea, Vietnam(After VW), and several other asiaianic countries.
3)Ah, ya'll just pissed we don't have to back our bills with gold anymore, just cause im from the south don't mean im an ignorant red neck, bet you don't even know that red neck is a term of endearment here did ya, huh, it also means a total disregard of complexity, I was refering to the "Europian Community" don't know who came up with the name, but I bet you he was French.
4)Old stereo types, old and wrong, given some people can't tell the difference from iraq, iran, and afganistan, but who cares when you can just bomb them at will.
5)Yes, and we and the rest of that 1/4 world decided to kick you guys out. You never did understand "No taxation without represintation" did you?

1) Well have you seen what happens to Brits in Northen Ireland, they get killed, the Irish don't need you there.

Actually the majority of the population of Northern Ireland want to remain as part of the United Kingdom.

You spineless, dirty, worthless, barbaric Americans. You trumpet freedom like a mantra and label everyone who disagree's as a fool or a terrorist. You not only did you wait for the last possible moment to join the last two wars the civilized world had to fight, while profitteering by some of your biggest corporations selling arms to nazi's and even equipment to make the holocaust run more smoothly (IBM check it out). Your reckless spending and gong show that is the FED is dragging the world into a decifit that will never recover, and you blatantly ignore every convention and natural law of mercy and tolerance. And then you display shock when you are attacked. You are the only country in the planet that goes out into the rain and doesn't expect to get wet. You are not the chosen people, you are headed for a brick wall, and I would rather see 100,000 dead Americans than 100,000 dead Iraqis civilians. I hope the earth devours your nation.

and another thing



You still speak english my friend. Slang means nothing. Cockneys dont claim to speak a different language because of slang. We accept people in yorkshire speak english, even if we cant understand them

Your 'football' ( football being an english game, so we should get the say in what football is ) is extremly like rugby. Have you not seen a game of rugby. essentially its your game, only with no padding and less tedious
1)Different dialects, langauges are built on them and die on them
2)Exactly, our game, not yours, two different games, two seperate set of rules, in fact all games are related by some minor thing, so what matter is that the game is different to the people who play it. Got that.

Actually the majority of the population of Northern Ireland want to remain as part of the United Kingdom.
Yes, but do they need you? No, didn't think so, infact it might be best to let the irish have Ireland back and if somtime in the futur the minority decide to join the Uk, all the better, all I know is that it will reduce causualities, can't argue with that.

Yes, but do they need you? No, didn't think so, infact it might be best to let the irish have Ireland back and if somtime in the futur the minority decide to join the Uk, all the better, all I know is that it will reduce causualities, can't argue with that.

Define 'Irish'.

Casualties have already been massively reduced by the peace process, and if the Six Counties were handed over to Eire, then the Loyalist paramilitaries would most likely re-instigate their activities of bombing and shooting.

Are you arguing that governments should instantly capitulate to terrorist demands in the name of reducing casualties?

1) Well have you seen what happens to Brits in Northen Ireland, they get killed, the Irish don't need you there.
2)Yeah because we don't like empires, empires allways hurt the colonies in favor for the "motherland" even though the native of the area are in their homland. You see america prefers to allign with those she would like to protect and council, ie Japan, Philipines, South Korea, Vietnam(After VW), and several other asiaianic countries.
4)Old stereo types, old and wrong, given some people can't tell the difference from iraq, iran, and afganistan, but who cares when you can just bomb them at will.


1) One of the reasons the British Army maintained a presence in Northern Ireland was to protect civilians on both loyalist and seperatist sides from attacks by militants on both sides. Additionally as British Glory said, the majority of the province wish to remain British. So, why would we force unification with the Irish Republic on a population that doesn't want it?

2) Despite what many americans profess, US foreign policy is extremely imperialist in its aims. Most wars waged by the US majorly benefit US based corporations. America doesn't just "align" itself with nations it defeats in wars, it installs governments that are extremely sympathetic to US interests, sometimes to the detriment of the nation it "helps". Two instances where this appears to be the case are Iraq and Vietnam where conditions considerably degraded for the majority of the populace after US involvement.

4) Yes they are stereotypes, but statements like "given some people can't tell the difference from iraq, iran, and afganistan, but who cares when you can just bomb them at will." are the kind that supports just such opinions.

Incidentally, I supported the war in Iraq, I think the coalition, of which my nation is a part, was right to remove Sadam Hussein from power. The way in which it was justified however, is a completely different matter.

1) One of the reasons the British Army maintained a presence in Northern Ireland was to protect civilians on both loyalist and seperatist sides from attacks by militants on both sides.

In fact, when they were first deployed it was to protect the predominantly Catholic/Nationalist/Republican population from attack by the predominantly Protestant/Loyalist/Unionist population. One of the many ironies of the conflict...

The war in Iraq was, without a doubt, a massive blunder and should never have happened. However, Europe OWES the US big time and should commit all available troops to supporing our efforts in Iraq and Afganistan. They owe us not only because we saved them in 2 World Wars, but because we defended them throughout the Cold War. Our massive millitary is the reason they can have small ones, which is why they can afford their socialist public welfare programs. Furthermore, their assistance could improve the situation in the Middle East, certainly the world will be worse off if the US fails than if we succeed. So is there any reasonable arguement that European nations that refuse to pull their weight are anything beyond ungrateful cowards that have more concern for oil prices than the welfare of the world?


We owe you bupkes.
Kindly drop dead.
You do EXACTLY what we want you to do.. and you may find help on the way.
Otherwise, don't bother to show up.

You spineless, dirty, worthless, barbaric Americans. You trumpet freedom like a mantra and label everyone who disagree's as a fool or a terrorist. You not only did you wait for the last possible moment to join the last two wars the civilized world had to fight, while profitteering by some of your biggest corporations selling arms to nazi's and even equipment to make the holocaust run more smoothly (IBM check it out). Your reckless spending and gong show that is the FED is dragging the world into a decifit that will never recover, and you blatantly ignore every convention and natural law of mercy and tolerance. And then you display shock when you are attacked. You are the only country in the planet that goes out into the rain and doesn't expect to get wet. You are not the chosen people, you are headed for a brick wall, and I would rather see 100,000 dead Americans than 100,000 dead Iraqis civilians. I hope the earth devours your nation.
1)You call us spinless, if we're so spineless why do the British remain one of our greatest allies, given you abandon us almost totally in war time but besides that, "Barbaric" oh real orgininal, the Romans called the Germans "barbaric" the eruopians called the arabs "barbaric" and visa versa, what does "barbaric" actually mean, given its latin root barbar which means hair and ic as one who has, so you call us "those with hair" yes, I agree, Americans do have hair.
2)If that was so, then why do you see that as such a bad thing, given it's false but still whats wrong with it, what you don't want the rest of the world to be as free as you and me? is that it, if so then that is the most selfice argument I've ever heard.
3)Oh I see you still beleive "War" to be "civilized" if that was so I'd want nothing to do with "civilization".
4)Who said that a liberal or you, wrong again, we sold arms to Germany in the first WW and if you had been fare with distribuiting the blame like the seven point included, there would not have been a second WW, how you say? Because the germans would not have been bankrupt and eager to blame, thus Hitler would not have sounded like an atractive idea, thus the jews would not have be masacared, thus there would have been no WWII, all because you wanted to "punish" Germans when in fact it all started as a war between Austria-Hungary and Serbia.
5)We didn't expect to fight Japan, we knew we'd have to help you sooner or later, but we were attacked before a formal declaration of war was signed, so yes pitty my poor heart for thrusting humanity to be "humane".
6)"Civilians with guns are no longer civilians when they choose to engage in hostile action." Terms of Engagement, you only say that because you hate us, even I would prefer to see a thousand living Iraqies then dead, but sometimes people make "foolish" decisions based on prejudice and hate, and where does that lead, allways to death, nowhere else.

1)You call us spinless, if we're so spineless why do the British remain one of our greatest allies, given you abandon us almost totally in war time but besides that,


If the British abandon the US almost totally in war time what are the 45,000 British troops deployed in Iraq doing?

If the British abandon the US almost totally in war time what are the 45,000 British troops deployed in Iraq doing?


Try dividing that number by 10....

Define 'Irish'.

Casualties have already been massively reduced by the peace process, and if the Six Counties were handed over to Eire, then the Loyalist paramilitaries would most likely re-instigate their activities of bombing and shooting.

Are you arguing that governments should instantly capitulate to terrorist demands in the name of reducing casualties?
Those who were born in Ireland, I see were you're going, don't think so.
Why do you say that, don't you think the majority would stop the "paramilitaries" from doing something that might cost "Irish" lives?
No, but it makes more since when the natives allready have a taste of freedom, like the Irish, I see where you're trying to take this, ain't gonna work.

You spineless, dirty, worthless, barbaric Americans. You trumpet freedom like a mantra and label everyone who disagree's as a fool or a terrorist. You not only did you wait for the last possible moment to join the last two wars the civilized world had to fight, while profitteering by some of your biggest corporations selling arms to nazi's and even equipment to make the holocaust run more smoothly (IBM check it out). Your reckless spending and gong show that is the FED is dragging the world into a decifit that will never recover, and you blatantly ignore every convention and natural law of mercy and tolerance. And then you display shock when you are attacked. You are the only country in the planet that goes out into the rain and doesn't expect to get wet. You are not the chosen people, you are headed for a brick wall, and I would rather see 100,000 dead Americans than 100,000 dead Iraqis civilians. I hope the earth devours your nation.

Whoo hooo, you tell 'em! About time they took a look inward.. The USA is the largest threat to world peace at this time in history. They are the "new" Germany. Not to say any thing is wrong with Germany now. I mean back in 1939.. The Americans will bring us all down.. and they're too stupid or ignorant to even see it!

If the British abandon the US almost totally in war time what are the 45,000 British troops deployed in Iraq doing?
I said almost totaly, not allways, to answer your question, protecting "British" contractors.

Those who were born in Ireland, I see were you're going, don't think so.
Why do you say that, don't you think the majority would stop the "paramilitaries" from doing something that might cost "Irish" lives?
No, but it makes more since when the natives allready have a taste of freedom, like the Irish, I see where you're trying to take this, ain't gonna work.

Northern Ireland is moving towards a self governing province as it is due to the process of devolution introduced by the UK government.

Something you fail to realise is that the reason casualties are now none-existant as opposed to the out and out terrorism of previous decades is due to the balance acheived between NI independance and affiliation with the rest of the UK. The Loyalists are happy because they're still British, and the Seperatists are happy because they're gaining some level of independance from that government. The populace in general is just happy that they're not being killed anymore.

People in Northern Ireland are "Free", as free as any other UK citizen, they are taxed and have representation in parliament. The British government cannot be blamed for elected Sinn Fein officials refusing to attend parliamentary debates or take office in westminster.

1) One of the reasons the British Army maintained a presence in Northern Ireland was to protect civilians on both loyalist and seperatist sides from attacks by militants on both sides. Additionally as British Glory said, the majority of the province wish to remain British. So, why would we force unification with the Irish Republic on a population that doesn't want it?

2) Despite what many americans profess, US foreign policy is extremely imperialist in its aims. Most wars waged by the US majorly benefit US based corporations. America doesn't just "align" itself with nations it defeats in wars, it installs governments that are extremely sympathetic to US interests, sometimes to the detriment of the nation it "helps". Two instances where this appears to be the case are Iraq and Vietnam where conditions considerably degraded for the majority of the populace after US involvement.

4) Yes they are stereotypes, but statements like "given some people can't tell the difference from iraq, iran, and afganistan, but who cares when you can just bomb them at will." are the kind that supports just such opinions.

Incidentally, I supported the war in Iraq, I think the coalition, of which my nation is a part, was right to remove Sadam Hussein from power. The way in which it was justified however, is a completely different matter.
1)Did I say that? No, very well but maybe you should start trusting other countries to "Do what they think is in their best interest"
2)Uh, sad to say this but America lost that war, Veitnam became a Communist country in the end, but they still liked us in the end as well. So noting to say, is it, what a suprise. The Iraq war is letting America retune her rebuilding methoods.
4)Not one for sarcasim, are ya?

Northern Ireland is moving towards a self governing province as it is due to the process of devolution introduced by the UK government.

Something you fail to realise is that the reason casualties are now none-existant as opposed to the out and out terrorism of previous decades is due to the balance acheived between NI independance and affiliation with the rest of the UK. The Loyalists are happy because they're still British, and the Seperatists are happy because they're gaining some level of independance from that government. The populace in general is just happy that they're not being killed anymore.

People in Northern Ireland are "Free", as free as any other UK citizen, they are taxed and have representation in parliament. The British government cannot be blamed for elected Sinn Fein officials refusing to attend parliamentary debates or take office in westminster.
1)Introduced
2)UK
3)Uk
Think alot of the Uk don't ya?

Whoo hooo, you tell 'em! About time they took a look inward.. The USA is the largest threat to world peace at this time in history. They are the "new" Germany. Not to say any thing is wrong with Germany now. I mean back in 1939.. The Americans will bring us all down.. and they're too stupid or ignorant to even see it!
It's people like you that make the rest of the British, look bad, you have no argument, yet you continue to voice your racist ideals, what are you the British verison of a Nazi/Clanmember.

Think alot of the Uk don't ya?
Empty strawman arguement

Yes, I think alot of the UK, but again, the good friday agreement establishing the Northern Ireland Assembly was signed by both British and Irish governments and endorsed by the majority or Northern Irish Political parties.

Additionally if you refer to the good friday agreement, one of the main provisions is that Northern Ireland should determine its own constitutional future by way of a majority vote.

As one of my teachers used to say, you're pissing into the wind.

If the majority of Northern Irish People WANT to remain part of the UK what is the problem here??

aint it just like europeans and liberals to take for granted the freedoms the U.S has given them, and then spit on them for return

The war in Iraq was, without a doubt, a massive blunder and should never have happened. However, Europe OWES the US big time and should commit all available troops to supporing our efforts in Iraq and Afganistan. They owe us not only because we saved them in 2 World Wars, but because we defended them throughout the Cold War. Our massive millitary is the reason they can have small ones, which is why they can afford their socialist public welfare programs. Furthermore, their assistance could improve the situation in the Middle East, certainly the world will be worse off if the US fails than if we succeed. So is there any reasonable arguement that European nations that refuse to pull their weight are anything beyond ungrateful cowards that have more concern for oil prices than the welfare of the world?

Your an idiot. Infact your so stupid I bet you think the mirror is another person. Lets clear up a few facts. 9/11 prior to this date the American poulation was only too happy for the IRA (a terrorist organisation) to hold fundraisers, this is due to them being Irish and some of your descendents coming from the same roots. When the CIA busted a drug operation in the South American jungle how pissed were they to find members of the IRA training the 'commies' to fight you. Fundraisers suddenly withdrawn. Suddenly after 9/11 (Which I am by the way sickened and appalled by especially as I have visited the USA on a number of occasions and especially New York) the world was against you. So the natural thing to do for the great United States of Ass kicking is goto war. Firstly Afghanistan and I can see why as Osama originates from there as do the taliban bastards. However Iraq? wtf was that about. Bush junior proving something to dad? Pop didn't finish it so i will. What exactly was he finishing? A slightly mad dishevelled old man? There was no cause for the War again in Iraq except your precious oil prices. He was no more a threat to you than Colonel Kadafi or Fidel Castro. Further more when the mighty USA told North Korea not to develop Nuclear capabilities and they ignored you nothing happened. Infact Mao issued a statment saying that if the USA tried to interfere it would be seen as an act of war. This puzzles me cos good old GWB did nothing...not a bean infact hes still done nothing. There are several reasons I see for this. A North korea has a very big military and everyone over the age of 18 has served 2-3 years compulsory service for their country. B they have nuclear weapons with the capabilities of reaching the west coast of Mainland USA. C cos Bush realises that these people have the know how and the cpabilities to fight a proper war in which thousands of your troops would perish.
Other reasons for the Iraq war 2 were the humanitarian help you were gonna give to the Iraqi's what about the Ivory coast where people get killed on a regular basis for no reason, or what about Nigeria? what about Zimbabwe. If you are gonna be the saviors of the free worlsd then you have to save the whole world and not just the bits that interest you. Its plain to see that Sadly your president talks out of his ass and has about as many humanitarian reasons for going into Iraq as the Germans had for deciding owning Europe would be a good idea.
As I live in England we sadly do support you. I dont and many of my country dont. As for owing you anything your welcome to visit me and I'll kick you ass all the way down my road. We owe you nothing. If you feel that way right a letter and see how many replies you get. The only reason that Iraq has not turned into another Vietnam yet is because there still isn't enough bad feeling against you in the middle east. Maybe your government should learn its lesson and leave well alone. Sort out your own affairs before telling the rest of the world how to handle its. Its not big and its not clever and the level of poverty in some of your country makes Ethiopias world debt look like a drop in the ocean. So next time before you start an idiotic post where you think people need to hear your opinion, DONT.

P.S. I'm sure my chidren will thank you in time for making the world a much less safe place. Now if you could declare war on China and drag us into that I'd be eternally gratful.

You smashed Japan into a bloody pulp even though it tried to surrender! Then you completely annihalted their own culture.

If I were Japanese, the last thing I would be is grateful.

And if Stalin had taken Europe, I think you would have had another World War on your hands.

Japanese surrender?

HA! They were FAR from surrendering! If you knew ANYTHING about the war in the pacific, Japan was going to fight to the death. Even after the first bomb, the Japanese were still going to fight on. After the second bomb, the only one in the government who didn't want to continue was the Emperor. All the generals, ministers, and people of Japan wanted to keep fighting off the americans. The only reason they surrendered was because their Emperor said so. And in those day the Emperor was GOD!

On to the main topic, I do NOT think that Europe owes the U.S. anymore than the U.S. owes Europe. Sure, the U.S. was the main factor that brought down the Soviet Union, and was also a main factor in winning WWII(If Germany hadn't declared War on the U.S. they wouldn't have to fear of a second front, thus sending all their troops to crush Russia. And then they would win the war), but Europe was also a main part in America. Mainly created colonies and treating them as second class citizens, thus creating ripe territory for revolts. Baisically EVERY colony(save Canada and a few Carribean Islands) revolted from their european masters. Also, Europe-U.S. Trade is big. Real big. Not the biggest market, mind you, but without Europe the economy wouldn't be where it is today.

All in all, if the free countries of the world hadn't stuck together during WWII and the Cold War, it would have fallen and we'd either be under the rule of facists or totalarian communists. Now we have to deal with a threat without borders, with an almost infinite supply of men, and the supposed backing of a higher power. If the free nations of the world (Such as the United States, The U.K., India, Germany, Pakistan, South Africa etc) don't stand together, then the terrorists will defeat one by one. Look what happend to Spain! They were weak due to the lack of big anti-terrorist allies in the region, and they suffer a gigantic attack in their own country which causes the government to be toppled and replaced with new leadership. Now one more nation has been added to the ever-growing list of nations that have bowed to the Radical Jihadi's that plague our planet.

You spineless, dirty, worthless, barbaric Americans. You trumpet freedom like a mantra and label everyone who disagree's as a fool or a terrorist. You not only did you wait for the last possible moment to join the last two wars the civilized world had to fight, while profitteering by some of your biggest corporations selling arms to nazi's and even equipment to make the holocaust run more smoothly (IBM check it out). Your reckless spending and gong show that is the FED is dragging the world into a decifit that will never recover, and you blatantly ignore every convention and natural law of mercy and tolerance. And then you display shock when you are attacked. You are the only country in the planet that goes out into the rain and doesn't expect to get wet. You are not the chosen people, you are headed for a brick wall, and I would rather see 100,000 dead Americans than 100,000 dead Iraqis civilians. I hope the earth devours your nation.
A+++++!!!

Seriously, people, why do you constantly try to degrade the U.S. or a European Nation (Mostly Germany)? Both have strong points and weak points. Besides, are these divides GOOD for the world?

I mean, think about it! The terrorists are attempting to destroy all of western civilization. Not Just America, not just England, not just Germany, ALL of it! Why? Because of how we have been mis-treating them for the past 100 years! First we(as in the U.N.) split them up into countries with horrible borders, then we(as in every country in the world besides the Arab's) decide to put the Jews right in the middle of an Arab country. Before, Jews and arabs got along fine like brothers. Then we instate a militaristic, expansionist Jewish state right in the middle of Palestine(an already existing nation). They tried to wipe out all the Palestinians culture, and look what happens. All the nations of the Arab world declare war on Israel three times. They fail each time, but each time they fail it fuels the armies of hate. Now the terrorists attack the Americans, the British, the Germans, the French, the Belgians, the Australians, the EVERYBODY! They are trying to pry us apart(in which they have already half-way succeded). And when we are pried apart, the strike with savage ferocity.

We MUST unite, or else we shall fall.

how fukcing DARE you spout such crap.

NEVER did the US "save" Britain from two world wars - twice you came in three years AFTER we asked for your help and you have the bloody NERVE to say that you SAVED US?

check your facts mister american. you will find nobody in europe really likes you or your nation anymore, or the way you rewrite history. the ALLIES won the war, not america - do you understand you idiot? the ALLIES, TOGETHER.

remember how many of OUR men died because YOU and your president would not help us when we most needed it, how many EUROPEANS died because you came in only when it served your nation's interests. do not presume that you have the right to declare yourself saviours of Europe, because America never was, never is, and never will be, the "saviour" of Europe.

We owe you nothing, and I would rather slit my own family's throats than bow down to such pathetic imperialistic attitudes as you display. Britain has shed its fair share of blood and more in the name of imperialism, but at least we are learning from the mistakes of that way of thinking. yes our nation committed atrocities, but not anymore. Your DARLING America could take a bloody good lesson or two from Europe.

WE OWE AMERICA NOTHING.

how fukcing DARE you spout such crap.

NEVER did the US "save" Britain from two world wars - twice you came in three years AFTER we asked for your help and you have the bloody NERVE to say that you SAVED US?

check your facts mister american. you will find nobody in europe really likes you or your nation anymore, or the way you rewrite history. the ALLIES won the war, not america - do you understand you idiot? the ALLIES, TOGETHER.

remember how many of OUR men died because YOU and your president would not help us when we most needed it, how many EUROPEANS died because you came in only when it served your nation's interests. do not presume that you have the right to declare yourself saviours of Europe, because America never was, never is, and never will be, the "saviour" of Europe.

We owe you nothing, and I would rather slit my own family's throats than bow down to such pathetic imperialistic attitudes as you display. Britain has shed its fair share of blood and more in the name of imperialism, but at least we are learning from the mistakes of that way of thinking. yes our nation committed atrocities, but not anymore. Your DARLING America could take a bloody good lesson or two from Europe.

WE OWE AMERICA NOTHING.

Now, i was trying to refrain from taking sides but...

WHAT ABOUT THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN SOLDIERS WHO DIED BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T EVEN DEFEND YOUR OWN CONTINENT!

...whew...

Sorry, i tried to refrain but i couldn't help it. I agree that he(mr. thread starter) went a bit overboard, but YOU DID TOO! Try to keep it civilized here, mates! Because remember, no matter how much whining and bitchin you say here, nothings gonna change. So go out, do something! If you really wanted to change something, go into POLITICS or work for your GOVERNMENT!

WHAT ABOUT THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN SOLDIERS WHO DIED BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T EVEN DEFEND YOUR OWN CONTINENT!

Check your facts. Only a mear 290,000 US troops were killed throughout the war. And guess what. Not all of them fought in Europe.

No, the US owes us nothing. We have too much dignity than to crave servitude of the people we help, nowadays.

OK, I am definitely not pro-Bush. In fact, I hate him with a passion, and I don't like the direction in which this country is going in. However, Europe hasn't contributed shit to the US. Though the US is not entitled to any assistance from Europe, it's extremely stupid and rude to deny what the US has done for Europe, and to turn the tables and actually say Europe has done anything significant for the US. Get over your arrogance and pride. My God.

I wouldn't say 290 thousand troops is a "mere" number, these are people who gave their lives so everyone could have a better tomorrow, as with all allied casualties.

Regardless of the semantics of the effect the US had on the war, nothing can ever change that.

Check your facts. Only a mear 290,000 US troops were killed throughout the war. And guess what. Not all of them fought in Europe.

You forgot the FIRST war.

We lost thousands and thousands in that one too.

And, if i remember Von Witzleben, if you are REALLY a German we died fighting your (then) evil nation. I have nothing against Germany NOW(i'd really like to learn German and get posted there when i'm in the Foreign Service), but THEN your nation was hell-bent on enslaving the world.

how fukcing DARE you spout such crap.

NEVER did the US "save" Britain from two world wars - twice you came in three years AFTER we asked for your help and you have the bloody NERVE to say that you SAVED US?

check your facts mister american. you will find nobody in europe really likes you or your nation anymore, or the way you rewrite history. the ALLIES won the war, not america - do you understand you idiot? the ALLIES, TOGETHER.

remember how many of OUR men died because YOU and your president would not help us when we most needed it, how many EUROPEANS died because you came in only when it served your nation's interests. do not presume that you have the right to declare yourself saviours of Europe, because America never was, never is, and never will be, the "saviour" of Europe.

We owe you nothing, and I would rather slit my own family's throats than bow down to such pathetic imperialistic attitudes as you display. Britain has shed its fair share of blood and more in the name of imperialism, but at least we are learning from the mistakes of that way of thinking. yes our nation committed atrocities, but not anymore. Your DARLING America could take a bloody good lesson or two from Europe.

WE OWE AMERICA NOTHING.

You are indeed an idiot. You very well know if the US hadn't entered that war, you would have lost. Hitler probably would have beaten you to a pulp, and if he hadn't, Japan sure as fuck would have went over there and done it. You didn't have nuclear technology, which is the only thing that stopped the Japanese. Their military was supreme. The US wouldn't have beaten them without nuclear technology, and neither would Britain or any or nation.

i didnt mean to go overboard, but i have had enough of being told to bow down to america's might.

if this man/woman wants to rewrite history as his precious nation does so well, then fine, but dont EVER try to tell us europeans the lies that you create to convince yourselves you are the saviours of the earth.

i am european and i look like an arab, through some very distant genetic traits. this means i cant go anywhere in the world without being under suspicion, and god forbid i should ever try to enter the united states. i am sorry for all the people who die through war, but america has got to stop its campaign of self-righteousness, otherwise the rest of the world will start wondering what is so wrong with holding the anti-american point of view that some fundamentalists hold.

the holocaust was sickening, the world wars were sickening. rewriting the history of those wars to set oneself up as a saviour is most sickening of all.

Seriously, people, why do you constantly try to degrade the U.S. or a European Nation (Mostly Germany)? Both have strong points and weak points. Besides, are these divides GOOD for the world?

I mean, think about it! The terrorists are attempting to destroy all of western civilization. Not Just America, not just England, not just Germany, ALL of it! Why? Because of how we have been mis-treating them for the past 100 years! First we(as in the U.N.) split them up into countries with horrible borders, then we(as in every country in the world besides the Arab's) decide to put the Jews right in the middle of an Arab country. Before, Jews and arabs got along fine like brothers. Then we instate a militaristic, expansionist Jewish state right in the middle of Palestine(an already existing nation). They tried to wipe out all the Palestinians culture, and look what happens. All the nations of the Arab world declare war on Israel three times. They fail each time, but each time they fail it fuels the armies of hate. Now the terrorists attack the Americans, the British, the Germans, the French, the Belgians, the Australians, the EVERYBODY! They are trying to pry us apart(in which they have already half-way succeded). And when we are pried apart, the strike with savage ferocity.

We MUST unite, or else we shall fall.
Huh, he has a point, but that doesn't mean that all of the Arab world is "evil" either. It just means we can't let our differences in opinion destroy us, now can we? I propose that this thread be closed down and in it's place a new thread be made in the spirit of unity and brotherhood, after all we may not like the thought but most of Americans were once Europian imagrants once in their history.

Somebody here made some sense. I don't see the point of this arguement. First of all, it gets us nowhere. Secondly, in reality, what does the EU owe us? We may have "saved" them in the world wars (a highly debatable point) but in the end, they are the ones who suffered the brunt force of the Nazi's.

The fact that we had tens of thousands of troops in western Europe during the Cold War would not have meant shit if the West Germany had been firebombed, gassed, nuked, or otherwise shot up to hell. As it would've been, no matter how gallently NATO troops fought of the Warsaw Pact onslought.

In todays age, its is clear that nobody won the Cold War (if you saw what happened on Sept. 11th, and have been keeping tract of the world's progression to instability) although we all may end up losing in the end.

Now, more then ever, we should unite, if not for our common iterests, then for our common good, to protect the nations we have created, and the people that live in them. I'm not saying that European nations need help us in Iraq (a war I never agreed with, although I DO support our troops there), though at least in spirit they should help us contain this hellhole of terrorists and insurgents.

Perhaps, if we finish our jobs in Iraq, the world will be a safer place. If we half-ass it, or leave before the job is ocmplete, our world (yes, the entire world) will suffer that much more.

Firstly Afghanistan and I can see why as Osama originates from there as do the taliban bastards.

I love how you think you know everything. Osama isn't from Afghanistan, idiot. He is Saudi. He had refuge in Afghanistan. He doesn't originate from there. I love when people who take the high and mighty stance make stupid mistakes.

You do relaize that is what he meant, right? Because I doubt attacking Sudan would've goten us anywhere. Just a thought.

i didnt mean to go overboard, but i have had enough of being told to bow down to america's might.

if this man/woman wants to rewrite history as his precious nation does so well, then fine, but dont EVER try to tell us europeans the lies that you create to convince yourselves you are the saviours of the earth.

i am european and i look like an arab, through some very distant genetic traits. this means i cant go anywhere in the world without being under suspicion, and god forbid i should ever try to enter the united states. i am sorry for all the people who die through war, but america has got to stop its campaign of self-righteousness, otherwise the rest of the world will start wondering what is so wrong with holding the anti-american point of view that some fundamentalists hold.

the holocaust was sickening, the world wars were sickening. rewriting the history of those wars to set oneself up as a saviour is most sickening of all.

We never re-wrote history, and we never said we won the war single-handedly. And i agree the Americans who believe themselves better and more righteous than everyone(which, painfully, is alot of them) are friggen MORON's. But the Europeans are also FAR from perfect. No one is perfect, and once we all accept that we can move on.

(OOC: BTW-Just to let ye guys know i'm not anti Arab/Muslim in ANY way. In FACT, i spent YEARS living in the most powerful Muslim state (Pakistan), and i have ALOT of Muslim friends. I also wanna learn Arabic.)

You forgot the FIRST war.

We lost thousands and thousands in that one too.

And, if i remember Von Witzleben, if you are REALLY a German we died fighting your (then) evil nation.
Evil? When? WWI or II?

I have nothing against Germany NOW(i'd really like to learn German and get posted there when i'm in the Foreign Service)
Ooh. You have nothing against us but you still want to occupy us? Now theres a way to make friends.

You do relaize that is what he meant, right? Because I doubt attacking Sudan would've goten us anywhere. Just a thought.

Saudi....as in Saudi Arabia. Anyhow, no, by the way he said it, clearly he thought Osama was Afghani. You know he probably thought he was. Anyway, attacking Saudi Arabia actually would have done some good. They actually did finance Sept. 11, unlike Iraq. They actually do have millions of people being indoctrinated into hating the West, and anyone non-Muslim. It's a little thing called Wahabism, a radical terroristic sect of Islam. I am Muslim, just so you know. Toppling the Saudi government would have been good for the world. However, they have financial ties to Bush, and this is why it didn't happen. The American people wanted blood, and group all Arabs together. Saddam is a bad man as well, though not guilty of terrorism against our country. Add the said grouping plus Saddam plus blood lust plus the financial ties and you have the Iraq War, instead of the Saudi War.

Check your facts. Only a mear 290,000 US troops were killed throughout the war. And guess what. Not all of them fought in Europe.

Rubbish, it's well over 400,000.

Anyway, you're a German, so the real truth of the WWII has been hidden from you.

how fukcing DARE you spout such crap.

NEVER did the US "save" Britain from two world wars - twice you came in three years AFTER we asked for your help and you have the bloody NERVE to say that you SAVED US?

check your facts mister american. you will find nobody in europe really likes you or your nation anymore, or the way you rewrite history. the ALLIES won the war, not america - do you understand you idiot? the ALLIES, TOGETHER.

remember how many of OUR men died because YOU and your president would not help us when we most needed it, how many EUROPEANS died because you came in only when it served your nation's interests. do not presume that you have the right to declare yourself saviours of Europe, because America never was, never is, and never will be, the "saviour" of Europe.

We owe you nothing, and I would rather slit my own family's throats than bow down to such pathetic imperialistic attitudes as you display. Britain has shed its fair share of blood and more in the name of imperialism, but at least we are learning from the mistakes of that way of thinking. yes our nation committed atrocities, but not anymore. Your DARLING America could take a bloody good lesson or two from Europe.

WE OWE AMERICA NOTHING.


Yes of course, we should have entered the war in 1940, after france and england had buggered the whole thing up beyond belief.

The reason why the US did not make some heroic rescue effort is that the war really had nothing to do with us. It was european ass haberdashery that caused it, nothing to do with the US.

In fact, if we were really the shits you claim we are, we could have put a lot less effort into it, and told the brits that they would have to do 90% of the fighting in Europe. We didn't, because we are big hearted.

The poor are just to lazy to work. Didn't you know that? :p


Adam Smith's ideas at work...

Rubbish, it's well over 400,000.
Oh realy? All sources tell me 290,000~295,000.
http://ww2bodycount.netfirms.com/
http://www.secondworldwar.co.uk/casualty.html
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004619.html
http://www.valourandhorror.com/DB/BACK/Casualties.htm
Anyway, you're a German, so the real truth of the WWII has been hidden from you.
Your an American. What do you know about truth?

[QUOTE Saudi....as in Saudi Arabia. Anyhow, no, by the way he said it, clearly he thought Osama was Afghani. QUOTE]

Sorry, my mistake. Of course, Suadi Arabia partly funded the 9/11 strikes, but attacking Saudi Arabia would be infinitly worse then attacking Iraq. Iraq has become terrotist bazaar more then a holy war (a mercenary war would be more like it; American PMC's versus suicide bombers whose families are paid for their "services"). In Saudi Arabia, well...if you thought Iraq was bad, then Saudi Arabia would be a compete hell on Earth for Americans.

In my opinion, however, although it is a wise idea to take out bin Laden, for it was he who masterminded the attacks of Sept. 11. However, our true enemy is our foreign policy. When we fix glaring discrepencies within our own halls of power, then and only then we we be freed from the threat of terrorist attacks, for as hard as it is to believe, these people don't attack us for fun. They think they have been wronged (and they have) and they seek to fix it, though in the most damaging way to their own cause.
In any case: Osama bin Laden :sniper:
American foreign policy towards the Middle East: :mp5:

You didn't have nuclear technology, which is the only thing that stopped the Japanese. Their military was supreme. The US wouldn't have beaten them without nuclear technology, and neither would Britain or any or nation.

Britain was the first country in the world to have nuclear technology. Get your facts straight before shooting your mouth off like that.

I think we should be thanking the people that fought in the wars for our countries. Instead of saying who owes who.

But i do want to say...
Wasn't the US going to stay out of ww2 til they were bombed. From what we learned in my university history class, US was trying to decided what side to take before they were bombed at pearl harbour and they were leaning towards the german side???

Evil? When? WWI or II?

WWII. I believe WWI was the STUPIDEST war ever. 8 million people died, nations were destroyed, and a people driven to the brink of destruction over a small, balkan nation.


Ooh. You have nothing against us but you still want to occupy us? Now theres a way to make friends.

...

Do you even KNOW what the foreign Service is? It's what diplomats are a member of!
When i said i wanted to get posted here and learn german, that means i would like to learn German and go work at the U.S. Embassy in German, to act as a go between between our two nations. Show Germans that America ISN'T some power/money hungry imperialistic devil-country, and show Americans that Germany ISN'T some Evil Anti-U.S. Satan-Worshiping Anti-Jewish Facist Nazi state.

Britain was the first country in the world to have nuclear technology. Get your facts straight before shooting your mouth off like that.

#1. Just for the record, the British were utterly defeated in the Pacific(although later in the war they played a key-role in defeating the JApanese Invasion of India and they re-claimed Myanmar. Although that was in the Indian Ocean, not the Pacific.)

#2. The Brit's may have had nuclear technology before the American's, but before we believe you a CONFIRMED SOURCE would be nice. Anyoo, we were the ones who made the first nuclear weapons, and you brits didn't make them until after the war.

[QUOTE=Von Witzleben]Evil? When? WWI or II?[QUOTE]
WWII, the state not the people, well the majority of the people.

#1. Just for the record, the British were utterly defeated in the Pacific(although later in the war they played a key-role in defeating the JApanese Invasion of India and they re-claimed Myanmar. Although that was in the Indian Ocean, not the Pacific.)

#2. The Brit's may have had nuclear technology before the American's, but before we believe you a CONFIRMED SOURCE would be nice. Anyoo, we were the ones who made the first nuclear weapons, and you brits didn't make them until after the war.

Actually as nuclear weapons go, the soviets tested their nuclear weapons program before Great Britain, I don't beleive we had confirmed nuclear weapons tests until the mid to late 50's.

I think we should be thanking the people that fought in the wars for our countries. Instead of saying who owes who.

But i do want to say...
Wasn't the US going to stay out of ww2 til they were bombed. From what we learned in my university history class, US was trying to decided what side to take before they were bombed at pearl harbour and they were leaning towards the german side???
Don't go there, after all it wouldn't have happened if you followed the American plan for a post WWI germany, but that is not the history we know.

Actually as nuclear weapons go, the soviets tested their nuclear weapons program before Great Britain, I don't beleive we had confirmed nuclear weapons tests until the mid to late 50's.

Really? I thought you made in in 46/47. I guess i was wrong though. I know the Soviets made theirs in '49.

I think we should be thanking the people that fought in the wars for our countries. Instead of saying who owes who.
Agreed

If you remember correctly, its was the Soviets that had a mole inside one of our esearch labs, and they stole the designs for our nuclear weapons, progressing their timetable by at least ten years.

First British nuclear weapon detonated on May 16th, 1956. I think. If I'm wrong, somebody please correct me.

Really? I thought you made in in 46/47. I guess i was wrong though. I know the Soviets made theirs in '49.


Operation Totem
Test: Test 1 (T1)
Time: 2130 14 October 1953 (GMT)
07:00 14 October 1953 (CST)
Location: Emu Field, South Australia, 28:68 S 132.34 E
Test Height and Type: Steel tower, 31 m
Yield: 10 kt

Operation Totem
Test: Test 1 (T1)
Time: 2130 14 October 1953 (GMT)
07:00 14 October 1953 (CST)
Location: Emu Field, South Australia, 28:68 S 132.34 E
Test Height and Type: Steel tower, 31 m
Yield: 10 kt

Hmmmm...

It makes sense it was detonated in australia. After all, imagine what woulda happened if it were detonated in England...

If the Tests had happend in England

A firey bright red sun was slowly setting in the distant horizon as the sweet song of chirping birds filled the air. Tom, a rich London Buisinessman, and his friend Bill, the village idiot, were playing golf on a rich, green field of grass. Bill hit the ball (with a cat, may I add), when all of a sudden he noticed a bunch of military men with a HUGE truck behind them. "I wonder wot that is for, mate!" he said to Tom, who replied, "Probably some ammo going to one of those bases out here." Tom then turned and hit the ball a few hundred feet to within 7 feet of the hole. "Come along, Bill! If we take too long Barbara will through a fit. She hates it when I miss her dinner parties."
"Ok, Tom." Replied Bill in a solemn tone.

Missing dinner would be the worst of their troubles, however, as that mysterious truck turned out to be holding a nuclear missile. Once the military men took cover, the bomb exploded, frying everything within miles. The blast was larger than expected, and as a result Tom's house burned up and fried.

The End

Golf with a cat?

So THATS what I've been doing wrong! :D

Oh realy? All sources tell me 290,000~295,000.
http://ww2bodycount.netfirms.com/
http://www.secondworldwar.co.uk/casualty.html
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004619.html
http://www.valourandhorror.com/DB/BACK/Casualties.htm

Your an American. What do you know about truth?

I know that 405,000 americans lost their lives serving in world war II, that's what I know.

What is more, there is monuments for all of them.

You Americans make me laugh. You are the most morally corrupt society in the World. You are ruled by the media, lied to by your politicians, and try to give yourself a sense of superiority by claiming that "Europe owes us". You think that you are so superior to the rest of the World with your mega bucks and big powerful army. Also you are'nt arrogant, you are self delusional. Now the British are arrogant, but they dont feel the need to shout it from the rooftops, British patriotism does'nt need flags and banners. Its bred into us, we dont need symbols of it. Also the widespread corruption and moral decadence in American society is hardly the right attitude for a country claiming to be the World policeman is it? The British will always be superior to America. Because we dont sell out when an oil contract is wafted in front of us. And please dont call us socialist, just because we dont charge poeple in our hospitals instead of turning away the sick, doesnt mean that we are socialists. As for the World Wars, well, dont preach about them. You helped us win WWII just as you raised the tension with your other ridicolous wars in Vietnam and Korea and Iraq. Why didnt you just TALK to the Russians instead of building bombs and missiles? You can solve much more by talking than by fighting, diplomacy is always the best way. We have helped you win far more wars than you have helped us. Korea was won with the sacrifice of many British lives. You would not have stood a chance in Iraq without the British. And isnt it strange how there's more violence in the American sectors than the British ones? Maybe thats because the British dont just shoot on sight. British soldiers dont like patrolling American sectors because they are afraid to be shot by them. Some Danish troops have refused point blank to patrol them because they just get shot on sight. Just consider the other side of the argument before you start claiming that everyone owes you. Also maybe take a dose of humility next time before opening your fat, blubbery mouthes. Arrogance isnt something that you shout about, its something inside you. Remember that, Yanks. And I know there are huge numbers of very good and reasonable Americans out there and this diatribe is not aimed at them. Its for the ones who think they are the worlds greatest. YOU ARE'NT.

Americans, a fat lot of good you are.
Stop claiming you have the most powerful military. Your military (and indeed the rest of your country) is a bunch of overweight idiots. The safest place to be in a war involving the Americans is directly in front of you, because you'll never hit us. It certainly isn't safe to be allied with you. In the 2003 Iraq conflict, more British soldiers died as a result of American cock-ups than did from Iraqi soldiers. And in Afganistan, you bombed a Canadian unit, clearly flying the Canadian flag. Honestly, don't try and claim that you're intelligent, because you're not.
Your nuclear technology came from German scientists, your ICBM designs came from German scientists. Almost every piece of combat equipment you claim to have built was designed by someone else.
I also agree with everything said by Gintonpar.
I'm sorry, but that needed saying.

1) Well have you seen what happens to Brits in Northen Ireland, they get killed, the Irish don't need you there.
2)Yeah because we don't like empires, empires allways hurt the colonies in favor for the "motherland" even though the native of the area are in their homland. You see america prefers to allign with those she would like to protect and council, ie Japan, Philipines, South Korea, Vietnam(After VW), and several other asiaianic countries.
3)Ah, ya'll just pissed we don't have to back our bills with gold anymore, just cause im from the south don't mean im an ignorant red neck, bet you don't even know that red neck is a term of endearment here did ya, huh, it also means a total disregard of complexity, I was refering to the "Europian Community" don't know who came up with the name, but I bet you he was French.
4)Old stereo types, old and wrong, given some people can't tell the difference from iraq, iran, and afganistan, but who cares when you can just bomb them at will.
5)Yes, and we and the rest of that 1/4 world decided to kick you guys out. You never did understand "No taxation without represintation" did you?

1) The Northern Irish do need us. Who else will protect them from the Amercian funded IRA? Ha you claim to fight a war on terror - take some lessons from the experts you bunch of yankee cowboys. We in Britain have been fighting Irish terrorism since the 1850s and we have long learnt that you can't defeat terrorism by going around smashing other countries into the dust. The current peace in Northern Ireland is a product of 50 years negogiation. What America has done in Iraq and Afghanistan has only inflamed the problem because now the Islamic world thinks the West is out to annihalte them. It would have been better if we could have used our diplomatic expertise and persauded Arab governments to dipose of terrorism. Also about the IRA being funded by America - still happens today. Why don't you crack down on those terrorists or are you too afraid of being confronted with some uncomfortable home truths?

2) Really? Well obviously you have no idea of imperialism, just the nationalistic crap your education systme teaches you. Imperialism has benefited colonies since the times of Romans - look at Roman Britain, where the first vestiges of civilisation were placed by imperialism. Look at America, another product of imperialism. Look at India, a country that is a super power because of the infra structure, the industry, the burecracy,the agriculture and the education systems that were first built by the British! Oh yes you protected Japan - after you blew them apart. You protected Vietnam - although they didn't want your protection.

3) A term of endearment? Alright then how does the term 'bag full of ill educated Texan crap' sound? There was never anything called the EC - what your febble mind is grasping for is EEC - European Economic Community. He probably was French but then France helped make your country.

4) You've said enough. Such sheer ignorance and arrogance.

5) I do think we understand it since we devised your system of democracy. Ever noticed how similar the US system is to the UK one? Well thats because America copied it.

I have to differ from your opinion. First of all, I am a citizen of the UNited States of America. Secondly, I am not overweight. Thirdly, I can aim a rifle very well. I also like to consider myself intelligent, considering I am taking very advanced college level courses while still in high school. I am a devout Christian, and therefore not morally corrupt.

Therefore, Free Eagles, I beg you reconsider your post, as it is most blatently incorrect, as I have just pointed out. Thank you for insulting me, as I have never done anything of the sort to any British person, or any other person just for the title on their passport.

I have to differ from your opinion. First of all, I am a citizen of the United States of America. Secondly, I am not overweight. Thirdly, I can aim a rifle very well. I also like to consider myself intelligent, considering I am taking very advanced college level courses while still in high school. I am a devout Christian, and therefore not morally corrupt.

Therefore, Free Eagles, I beg you reconsider your post, as it is most blatently incorrect, as I have just pointed out. Thank you for insulting me, as I have never done anything of the sort to any British person, or any other person just for the title on their passport.

Oh. Like I said, I like to consider myself intelligent, AND I AM FROM TEXAS. I hope you don't mind that. Asshole.

I know that 405,000 americans lost their lives serving in world war II, that's what I know.

What is more, there is monuments for all of them.
And I take it you counted all names yourself huh?

Stop whining, you pathethic neocon girlymen!
*sneers most Europeanically*

(Uh, just to let everyone know, I am Pro-Palestine/ Pro-Ireland. You Brit's had NO right enslaving the Irish people and making them into second-class citizens. And then the Irish have a chance to finally have a free Ireland after hundreds of years, and you say "Whoop-di-do! Screw you Ireland! We want's the nice north Ireland!".

Also, the U.N. just goes , out of the blue i may add, and plants the Jewish people on top of an Arab state. Now, if the Jews had been sent to Palestine to live side-by-side with the Arabs that would be FINE, but erasing one state and putting another on top of it? God, what was the U.N. THINKIN!)

Anyhoo...

It's Christmas Eve(or just Christmas in part of the world) for Christ's Sake!

Come on now! We shouldn't bicker and argue about who killed who, today is supposed to be a HAPPY DAY! All throughout the world, no matter the religion, peoples around this time of year REJOICE! The Muslims trade gifts and give to the poor on Eid, the Chrisitan's pray to Jesus and feast, the Jew's give presents to their loved ones. The Chinese set up festive tree's, and Latino's hold lavish celebration's! African's hail the coming of the summer, as Native American's pray to their gods for a good winter! We can set aside our petty dispute's until Sunday, can't we?

(Uh, just to let everyone know, I am Pro-Palestine/ Pro-Ireland. You Brit's had NO right enslaving the Irish people and making them into second-class citizens. And then the Irish have a chance to finally have a free Ireland after hundreds of years, and you say "Whoop-di-do! Screw you Ireland! We want's the nice north Ireland!".

Also, the U.N. just goes , out of the blue i may add, and plants the Jewish people on top of an Arab state. Now, if the Jews had been sent to Palestine to live side-by-side with the Arabs that would be FINE, but erasing one state and putting another on top of it? God, what was the U.N. THINKIN!)

Anyhoo...

It's Christmas Eve(or just Christmas in part of the world) for Christ's Sake!

Come on now! We shouldn't bicker and argue about who killed who, today is supposed to be a HAPPY DAY! All throughout the world, no matter the religion, peoples around this time of year REJOICE! The Muslims trade gifts and give to the poor on Eid, the Chrisitan's pray to Jesus and feast, the Jew's give presents to their loved ones. The Chinese set up festive tree's, and Latino's hold lavish celebration's! African's hail the coming of the summer, as Native American's pray to their gods for a good winter! We can set aside our petty dispute's until Sunday, can't we?

BAH HUMBUG

LS, I really appreciate your last sentiment but I think it's a bit off considering the first half of your post ("I win now shut up") :D

Hey come on British, lighten up dude:) Go watch some jonathan ross or something:P

<snip> diplomacy is always the best way.

Didnt British Prime Minister Chamberlain say that first? ;)

Remember that, Yanks. And I know there are huge numbers of very good and reasonable Americans out there and this diatribe is not aimed at them. Its for the ones who think they are the worlds greatest. YOU ARE'NT.

And thanks, with the British and German Airmen (RAF and GAF ) I met while stationed around the world we always had more than just sense of shared comradery, that we were more than just allies, but friends as well.

And as for saying "The World's Greatest" that is always a thin thread to dangle on, because quite soon someone else shows you up in some aspect or another. so lets put it this way.

Does anyone in the world want to start a war with the UK? Hell no, same with the US.

Could some countries show both of us up in some aspect of military prowess? Probubly, I dont know of any off hand but I wouldnt bet a dollor or a pound on either of us being the greatest in All aspects of war.

And on this day may we recall of shared struggles and not the struggles between us.

And thanks, with the British and German Airmen (RAF and GAF ) I met while stationed around the world we always had more than just sense of shared comradery, that we were more than just allies, but friends as well.

And as for saying "The World's Greatest" that is always a thin thread to dangle on, because quite soon someone else shows you up in some aspect or another. so lets put it this way.

Does anyone in the world want to start a war with the UK? Hell no, same with the US.

Could some countries show both of us up in some aspect of military prowess? Probubly, I dont know of any off hand but I wouldnt bet a dollor or a pound on either of us being the greatest in All aspects of war.

And on this day may we recall of shared struggles and not the struggles between us.


My hat off to you sir, an officer and a gentleman, have a merry christmas :) .

The IRA were not a terrorist group, and we did a poor job of "protecting" anyone from them, considering they won the war against Britain. Bear in mind who initiated the peace talks. The IRA also admitted to every bomb and shooting they ever perpetrated. Any other explosions and shooting that occured during that time was perpetrated by the Ulster Unionists. They'd shoot their own people to make the other side look bad. And suddenly, the IRA didn't look like such an ugly, terrorist organisation at all...

My hat off to you sir, an officer and a gentleman, have a merry christmas :) .

Thank you Sir, I am touched by your offer of respect, please know it is mutual.

:) Well, not an Officer, but I do try to be a gentleman.

Merry Christmas to you and yours as well

The best way to prevent massive and uneccessary use of resources is not to have wars which waste resources on an unbelievable scale. So in your scenario in order to prevent pollution the US has caused even more pollution.

*scours original post* Hm... that's odd. I don't recall saying anything about pollution, sweetheart. :confused: As for your broader position, "Well, you shouldn't be there anyway, so your perfectly reasonable and logically defensible argument is moot!" is unadulterated malarkey. You berated our troops for protecting the oil wells, and I explained why they had to. Even if the war is wrong - and I'm not stating whether I believe it is or not - we ARE there, and we SHOULD prevent needless, costly sabotage if it's within our capacity.

Although by your logic, it's Great Britain's fault that the oil wells are being protected: if you hadn't colonized North America, the USA would never come to existence, and this war would never have occured. Sounds rather bogus in those terms, doesn't it? ;)

And also, the Sovjet Union fell because of Breshnef, not because of Reagen. The man did nothing as damaging to the USSR as Breshnef and his selfish, arrogant imperialist policies. I would have given the USSR only ten more years at most until its collapse if Reagen had ignored it like nearly every other president. America did as little to destroy the Sovjet Union as the Sovjet Union did to conquer Europe after WWII. And hey, if the USSR had existed ten more years maybe Putin wouldn't be telling us all to stay away from Ukraine and his Spetznazis stationed there.

Wow. For every argument I see excoriating America for not getting involved in World War Two early enough, there's an assertion that American intervention in the Cold War was meaningless. Ten more years? Does a DECADE not register as a long period of time with you?

We really can't win. We're either spurned for not getting on the ball quickly enough or dismissed for accomplishing "unnecessary" feats. Sigh...

Canada gave the USA reinforcement, and America gave...yes, what did America ever give Canada?

No offense, but Canada hasn't exactly been a model ally as of late. Besides, isn't this whole argument about how no country should "owe" another anything?

You spineless, dirty, worthless, barbaric Americans. You trumpet freedom like a mantra and label everyone who disagree's as a fool or a terrorist. You not only did you wait for the last possible moment to join the last two wars the civilized world had to fight, while profitteering by some of your biggest corporations selling arms to nazi's and even equipment to make the holocaust run more smoothly (IBM check it out). Your reckless spending and gong show that is the FED is dragging the world into a decifit that will never recover, and you blatantly ignore every convention and natural law of mercy and tolerance. And then you display shock when you are attacked. You are the only country in the planet that goes out into the rain and doesn't expect to get wet. You are not the chosen people, you are headed for a brick wall, and I would rather see 100,000 dead Americans than 100,000 dead Iraqis civilians. I hope the earth devours your nation.

Revolting. Absolutely revolting. You should never wish death upon innocent civilians of any nationality - and considering roughly half of Americans disagree with Bush's ideology, you'd be slaughtering scores of thousands of your own sympathizers. If it's our government you despise, wish ill upon the members of Bush's Cabinet, but leave our people be. Mein Gott, if I had audacity to assume that one foul denizen of a particular nation was an accurate representative of every single one of his compatriots, I'd volley your accusation of barbaricness right back at you.

I'm tired of all these unfair generalizations and misappropriated anger. Global community, lambaste Bush if you must, but spare our citizens; just because the occasional moronic Yank might argue that ordnance can solve any dilemma doesn't mean we're all provincial fookheads. Americans, a diatribe against a fooly who claims all Americans are barbarians is justified, but waxing polemic against a stranger simply because he or she believes the war in Iraq is wrong or mishandled is not.

Calm down! :(

No offense, but Canada hasn't exactly been a model ally as of late. Besides, isn't this whole argument about how no country should "owe" another anything?
how have we been a bad ally?

because we didn't go fight one war that was declared illegal with you?

or because we're not following trade agreements that we initiated... oops, that's the u.s., continuing to charge penalizing fees on our lumber.
is it because we're cutting off important industries... oops, again, that's the u.s., cutting off our beef for the disease of two cattle believed to have contracted it on american soil.

so how exactly are we being bad allies? we're out there in afghanistan keeping peace instead of off fighting people who didn't attack you. don't pick a fight and expect everyone to be on your side and then call them bad friends when they don't join in.

No offense, but Canada hasn't exactly been a model ally as of late. Besides, isn't this whole argument about how no country should "owe" another anything?
And whats a "model" ally? One that follows you without questioning into whatever you do?

[QUOTE Saudi....as in Saudi Arabia. Anyhow, no, by the way he said it, clearly he thought Osama was Afghani. QUOTE]

Sorry, my mistake. Of course, Suadi Arabia partly funded the 9/11 strikes, but attacking Saudi Arabia would be infinitly worse then attacking Iraq. Iraq has become terrotist bazaar more then a holy war (a mercenary war would be more like it; American PMC's versus suicide bombers whose families are paid for their "services"). In Saudi Arabia, well...if you thought Iraq was bad, then Saudi Arabia would be a compete hell on Earth for Americans.

In my opinion, however, although it is a wise idea to take out bin Laden, for it was he who masterminded the attacks of Sept. 11. However, our true enemy is our foreign policy. When we fix glaring discrepencies within our own halls of power, then and only then we we be freed from the threat of terrorist attacks, for as hard as it is to believe, these people don't attack us for fun. They think they have been wronged (and they have) and they seek to fix it, though in the most damaging way to their own cause.
In any case: Osama bin Laden :sniper:
American foreign policy towards the Middle East: :mp5:

No, it wouldn't. Because Iraq didn't do anything. Wouldn't it be right to get the real villains, instead of some stupid scapegoats? Yes, I suppose militarily it might be branded more of a "mistake" than Iraq, but at least Saudi Arabia is responsible on many levels. If we were to go to war with anyone besides Afghanistan, it should've been them. That was my point. Iraq has been in no way linked to Sept. 11. Whereas, there is a paper trail linking Saudi royals and officials to Al-Qaeda, and most of the hjiackers were Saudis. Not one was Iraqi.

how have we been a bad ally?

because we didn't go fight one war that was declared illegal with you?

or because we're not following trade agreements that we initiated... oops, that's the u.s., continuing to charge penalizing fees on our lumber.
is it because we're cutting off important industries... oops, again, that's the u.s., cutting off our beef for the disease of two cattle believed to have contracted it on american soil.

so how exactly are we being bad allies? we're out there in afghanistan keeping peace instead of off fighting people who didn't attack you. don't pick a fight and expect everyone to be on your side and then call them bad friends when they don't join in.
you gave our president the finger, literally.

you gave our president the finger, literally.
And thats bad... how?

For the record.

The USA wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the Europeans. So, Quit your whining. You wouldn't be there, or, you'd be speaking Russian, or maybe Native Indian if you were here. So in no way does Europe owe you anything.

Other than that, you SAT ON YOUR ARSE for several years in the WW's. So don't give me that one either. And Europe helped you, in one of your little revolutionary wars or somehting along those lines. Read: France, AKA Arch Nemesis. :rolleyes: ;)

For the record.

The USA wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the Europeans. So, Quit your whining. You wouldn't be there, or, you'd be speaking Russian, or maybe Native Indian if you were here. So in no way does Europe owe you anything.

Other than that, you SAT ON YOUR ARSE for several years in the WW's. So don't give me that one either. And Europe helped you, in one of your little revolutionary wars or somehting along those lines. Read: France, AKA Arch Nemesis. :rolleyes: ;)

Um, not to mention the British Enslaved half the known world and caused many of the worlds greatest problems (India vs. Pakistan, which may boil down into the worlds first nuclear war, comes to mind. You also had a heavy hand in Palestine vs. Israel, Ireland vs. England, the Opium War's in China....)

Try dividing that number by 10....


"250,000 United States troops, with support from approximately 45,000 British, 2,000 Australian and 200 Polish combat forces, entered Iraq primarily through their staging area in Kuwait."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq

"The UK military contingency preparations in relation to Iraq are being conducted under the name of Operation Telic. Telic comes from Greek and means expressing purpose. Substantial maritime and land forces have been deployed, including the mobilization of a number of reservists. Approximately 45,000 personnel (30% of total deployable force) have been deployed. This is about the same number as were deployed in the Gulf War in 1991."

http://www.britainusa.com/sections/other_show.asp?Sarticletype=2&other_ID=419&i=121

Those who were born in Ireland, I see were you're going, don't think so.

If you mean people born in the Republic of Ireland alone, then what right do they have to dictate to those born in the North who wish to remain part of the Union?

If you mean people born in the island of Ireland as a whole, then why are you chosing to ignore the desires of the pro-Union 'Irish'?


Why do you say that, don't you think the majority would stop the "paramilitaries" from doing something that might cost "Irish" lives?

The majority wasn't particularly successful at stopping the paramiltaries from doing things which cost human lives in the past, were they?


No, but it makes more since when the natives allready have a taste of freedom, like the Irish, I see where you're trying to take this, ain't gonna work.

Explain to me what freedoms the Nationalists/Republicans don't have in Northern Ireland which are enjoyed by the Unionists/Loyalists, would you?

(Uh, just to let everyone know, I am Pro-Palestine/ Pro-Ireland. You Brit's had NO right enslaving the Irish people and making them into second-class citizens. And then the Irish have a chance to finally have a free Ireland after hundreds of years, and you say "Whoop-di-do! Screw you Ireland! We want's the nice north Ireland!".

You do know why the six counties remained as part of the UK, don't you? - because the majority of the population living there at the time of Eire's independence wanted to maintain the Union.

Whoo hooo, you tell 'em! About time they took a look inward..

It's people like you that make the rest of the British, look bad, you have no argument, yet you continue to voice your racist ideals, what are you the British verison of a Nazi/Clanmember.

Stephistan != British.
Stephistan = Canadian.

Hey come on British, lighten up dude:) Go watch some jonathan ross or something:P

BUT JOHNATHAN ROSS STOLE THE FORMAT FOR HIS FIRST SHOW - 'THE LAST RESORT' - FROM THE AMERICANS!!!!!!! U EUROS OWE US BIGTIME!!!!!!!

How did America save us all in the Second World War? The way I remember reading about it, the Americans got tied up with the Japanese, while the Russians suffered absolutely horrendous losses right through to the point where they finally reached Berlin and flew the Russian flag from the Reichstag in around April (?) in 1945, while the Americans dropped an atom bomb or two on Japan in June/July, maybe later, after they'd attempted a surrender. Sounds like I owe my life more to the Russians than any Americans.

Plus, what's your obsession with telling us all that if you hadn't intervened, we'd all be speaking German and goosestepping around the place? That seems a little odd. I mean, when you invaded Iraq, did you start some kind of massive program teaching them English or something? And did the germans suddenly force other countries civilians conquered during WWII adopt the their military march to get around? Madness. Why does so much idiocy spill out when Americans open their mouths?


That is so true!!! Best post here, hat of Sir :)

Whoah, watch the beer. It's better then the warm crap they serve over there.

Now lets see... The warm beer is an old British beer that is almost gone now.. Today we have, among many other, Carlsbeer, Pilsner, Heiniken, Pripps and many other.. We also are the only ones that can make real Champange..

how fukcing DARE you spout such crap.

NEVER did the US "save" Britain from two world wars - twice you came in three years AFTER we asked for your help and you have the bloody NERVE to say that you SAVED US?

check your facts mister american. you will find nobody in europe really likes you or your nation anymore, or the way you rewrite history. the ALLIES won the war, not america - do you understand you idiot? the ALLIES, TOGETHER.

remember how many of OUR men died because YOU and your president would not help us when we most needed it, how many EUROPEANS died because you came in only when it served your nation's interests. do not presume that you have the right to declare yourself saviours of Europe, because America never was, never is, and never will be, the "saviour" of Europe.

We owe you nothing, and I would rather slit my own family's throats than bow down to such pathetic imperialistic attitudes as you display. Britain has shed its fair share of blood and more in the name of imperialism, but at least we are learning from the mistakes of that way of thinking. yes our nation committed atrocities, but not anymore. Your DARLING America could take a bloody good lesson or two from Europe.

WE OWE AMERICA NOTHING.

Forget ignorants or rewriters like Roma Islamica. Your nation did much more for the continent then those opportunists like said above. You guys are the allies, they are the new enemy surounded by "democrats" as Putin and the pupet regimes that they install in the middle east (the temporary PM of Iraq is a former terrorist and CIA agent, he is still on inter- and Europols list)

The US "saved" Europe from Nazi tyranny did it? that is a very simplistic way of looking at the situation bearing in mind Britain stood alone against the nazis for over a year and the USSR were the ones who lcaptured Berlin. The whole of WW2 was a joint effort between the allies in which the USA, Great Britain and the USSR all played a part. None of these countries owe the others Hitler had to be stopped for the world not just for Europe.

If your beloved General Eisenhower hadn't been such a coward ]

since when was Eisenhower a coward

You went there out of a greedy urrge to grab some cheap oil. Its interesting the first targets the American troops secrued were the oil rigs.

no it isnt Saddam has been known for lighting oil up when he was losing remember burning oil feilds

Also could you take MacDonalds back? Im sick of seeing it on every bloody high street.

yah sure ill get right on it

LOL, without Europe non of the North American countries would exist, plus the U.S. was saved by France in one of those old ass wars that happened like 200 years ago, so the U.S. is just paying back it's debts. So fuck you if you think the world owes the U.S. anything.

US "saved" by France? LOL.

They formed a tentative alliance during the period of warring for independence against Britain (both nations loss if you ask me, and I wouldn'g go as far as saying "saved" by France :D)

im going to get flamed for this i know but the U.S.A. could have taken germany out if not for europe (no disrespect)

if europe had not been there at all we could have delt with germany the same way we delt with Japan

that said we could not have fought the war we fought without the significant help from europe

that said we could not have fought the war we fought without the significant help from europe


Noop, vice versa. Europe could not have fought the war it fought witouth the help of the US late in the war. If not the Russiands would heve been in Normandy in 1945, leaving a red europe behind them. but yeah, it were mainly the Russians that fought the war and destroyed 79,6% of the German Army.

LOL, without Europe non of the North American countries would exist, plus the U.S. was saved by France in one of those old ass wars that happened like 200 years ago, so the U.S. is just paying back it's debts. So fuck you if you think the world owes the U.S. anything.

lol im sry, did u say france "saved" the US, oh you did...HAHAHAHA france can't even save their own ass let alon have an "army" also, back during the Revolution the US only got a bit of backup from the french during that war, thats it
since then france's army only looks like it has a chance at beating barney and a gang of 6 yr old children

lol im sry, did u say france "saved" the US, oh you did...HAHAHAHA france can't even save their own ass let alon have an "army" also, back during the Revolution the US only got a bit of backup from the french during that war, thats it
since then france's army only looks like it has a chance at beating barney and a gang of 6 yr old children

Like I said, I'm not bias. I said the US was indeed the major reason the Axis powers lost World War II. However, you're wrong about the "bit of backup". It was more than a "bit". They got a lot of backup. True, in many instances the Americans held their own and kicked some British ass, especially up in Massachusetts, but without France, and a little help from Spain, chances are the Americans would have lost (not by much) just because of sheer British numbers. British training wasn't exactly an asset, since the Americans fought guerilla style, and the Brits were weighed down by shitty fighters (America was a ragtag frontier, why send your best?) and hired German Hessians.

For the record.

The USA wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the Europeans. So, Quit your whining. You wouldn't be there, or, you'd be speaking Russian, or maybe Native Indian if you were here. So in no way does Europe owe you anything.

Other than that, you SAT ON YOUR ARSE for several years in the WW's. So don't give me that one either. And Europe helped you, in one of your little revolutionary wars or somehting along those lines. Read: France, AKA Arch Nemesis. :rolleyes: ;)

Americans were allowed to sit on their ass. They weren't attacked. As I recall, European nations were neutral during the wars. These wars happened in their own backyards, and they didn't go to war because they weren't affected, at least at the beginning. Also, Native Indian isn't a language. Just like Europe has many languages, so does (did?) America. There are thousands of languages on the two continents and the islands surrounding them.

since then france's army only looks like it has a chance at beating barney and a gang of 6 yr old children

So their military poweress is equal to your vocabulary, english, and typing skills?

You smashed Japan into a bloody pulp even though it tried to surrender! Then you completely annihalted their own culture.

If I were Japanese, the last thing I would be is grateful.

And if Stalin had taken Europe, I think you would have had another World War on your hands.

Read a history book please,
Japan was NOT thinking about surrendering untill we nuked them the secound time
Jeez get a brain

Read a history book please,
Japan was NOT thinking about surrendering untill we nuked them the secound time
Jeez get a brain

Insults won't change a fact. The Japanese leadership had sent proposals to discuss peace with USA through the Soviets. I'm surprised that your history books didn't mention this. Where do you live?

Read a history book please,
Japan was NOT thinking about surrendering untill we nuked them the secound time
Jeez get a brain

"It always appeared to us that, atomic bomb or no atomic bomb, the Japanese were already on the verge of collapse."
-General Henry H. "Hap" Arnold
Commanding General of the U.S. Army
Air Forces Under President Truman


"I had been conscious of depression and so I voiced to (Sec. Of War Stimson) my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at this very moment, seeking a way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face.' "
-General Dwight D. Eisenhower


"Japan was at the moment seeking some way to surrender with minimum loss of 'face'… It wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."
-General Dwight D. Eisenhower


"It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender… My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was taught not to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying woman and children."
-Admiral William D. Leahy
Former Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff


"I am absolutely convinced that had we said they could keep the emperor, together with the threat of an atomic bomb, they would have accepted, and we would never have had to drop the bomb."
-John McCloy


"P.M. [Churchill} & I ate alone. Discussed Manhattan (it is a success). Decided to tell Stalin about it. Stalin had told P.M. of telegram from Jap Emperor asking for peace."
-President Harry S. Truman
Diary Entry, July 18, 1945


"Some of my conclusions may invoke acorn and even ridicule.

"For example, I offer my belief that the existence of the first atomic bombs may have prolonged -- rather than shortened - World War II by influencing Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson and President Harry S. Truman to ignore an opportunity to negotiate a surrender that would have ended the killing in the Pacific in May or June of 1945.

"And I have come to view the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings that August as an American tragedy that should be viewed as a moral atrocity."
-Stewart L. Udall
US Congressman and
Author of "Myths of August"


"Certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated."
-U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey's 1946 Study


"Careful scholarly treatment of the records and manuscripts opened over the past few years has greatly enhanced our understanding of why Truman administration used atomic weapons against Japan. Experts continue to disagree on some issues, but critical questions have been answered. The consensus among scholars is the that the bomb was not needed to avoid an invasion of Japan… It is clear that alternatives to the bomb existed and that Truman and his advisers knew it.
-J. Samuel Walker
Chief Historian
U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission



Word has it that Truman felt it was important to send a message to Stalin, so that when WWII was over and the USSR would be a major world power, Stalin would know that America had the bomb and would not be afraid to use it against Her enemies in the event of a War.

Insults won't change a fact. The Japanese leadership had sent proposals to discuss peace with USA through the Soviets. I'm surprised that your history books didn't mention this. Where do you live?

I'll take a bet: USA? :rolleyes:

US did not also enter into WWII until 2 years, 3 months and 7 days after Germany invaded Poland.

The Bush family was busy assisting Hitler in financing the war and became richer than ever thanks to Adolf.

And whenever I hear that US "won the war" I have to laugh. Just like when they say they wone the cold war, laughable.

I guess the old enemy, Soviet-Union were sitting on their fat communist asses during WWII? No? Some of the biggest battles and biggest losses of lives during WWII happend to be inside the old Soviet-Union. Too bad history is not thaught in US schools! :rolleyes:

I'll take a bet: USA? :rolleyes:

US did not also enter into WWII until 2 years, 3 months and 7 days after Germany invaded Poland.

The Bush family was busy assisting Hitler in financing the war and became richer than ever thanks to Adolf.

And whenever I hear that US "won the war" I have to laugh. Just like when they say they wone the cold war, laughable.

I guess the old enemy, Soviet-Union were sitting on their fat communist asses during WWII? No? Some of the biggest battles and biggest losses of lives during WWII happend to be inside the old Soviet-Union. Too bad history is not thaught in US schools! :rolleyes:



"'Who controls the past,' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'"

Read a history book please,
Japan was NOT thinking about surrendering untill we nuked them the secound time
Jeez get a brain
onbehalf of my country i apologize. the US never has and never will do anything that is not in its express interest. europe owes it as much as the we owe them. we stabilzed their economy to prevent the threat of soviet expansion, we stopped the japanese to secure our own interests in the pacific. all of this clothed under the guise of ideological propoganda, from both sides. the truth of the matter is that the US, in its present situation, will most likely end up subordinate to the EU within the next 10-15 years. the military power needed to secure global dominance is based on a market that can not sustain losing the EU, which now has a larger population than the US, as a trading partner. the US is likley to yield more in the future to europe's demands for the same reasons its democratic system exists, because business says so. as for the 2nd bombing idea, i suggest watching "fog of war" and enlighten yourself to the extent of foreign policy on the rest of the world.

ps: jesus hates george bush......deal with that !

History is written by the winners, or in this case is biased toward the writer's own country

lol im sry, did u say france "saved" the US, oh you did...HAHAHAHA france can't even save their own ass let alon have an "army" also, back during the Revolution the US only got a bit of backup from the french during that war, thats it
since then france's army only looks like it has a chance at beating barney and a gang of 6 yr old children
Actually they sent some units of the KGL, along with several redcoat battalions, had thay sen the elite Riflemen and more of the KGL plus some of the better irish regements there can be little doubt that Btitian would ave won. However at the time Britian was figthing on several fronts and it had it's eyes of india and only sent almost raw battalions to hold onto the coloneys.(That bit was for Roma Islamica)

the British training for those line regements was basiclly to stand in a line and fire platoon vollys. They where trained for set peice battles, only there light companys where trained for skirmishing. Which was why the Americans won.

oh, and without French help, i doubt the Americans would have won, most of there muskets where french made, there finacne was from france as well. face it, without the french you would have lost. You owe your nations existance to them.

Oh, and I doubt Frances army are that weak, because they are pacifist and don't rush head long into stupid and pointless wars, like the US. Maybe you should watch something other than fox for a change.

neither side owes either side anything.

Wait for it...



Ha. Ha. No, but seriously... 'Kasserine Pass' ring any bells?, or is your understanding of history really that bad?
Yes it does, four years after the fighting started wasn't it!
After the British had defeated Rommel at El Alamain and the Africa Korps were broken and in retreat.
So yes I remember it but as the whole thing was more or less wrapped up did not think to put too much emphasis on it. But I suppose when it is your only major victory on the continent ever you have to remember it.

lol im sry, did u say france "saved" the US, oh you did...HAHAHAHA france can't even save their own ass let alon have an "army" also, back during the Revolution the US only got a bit of backup from the french during that war, thats it
since then france's army only looks like it has a chance at beating barney and a gang of 6 yr old children
Actually, France's ground reinforcements doubled the size of your revolutionary army, and their navy defeated the British at sea.

I really don't think that the US saved Europe in World War I....Britain would just have taken a little while longer without US aid, but they would have won.

Yes it does, four years after the fighting started wasn't it!

So, you do know that American soldiers were fighting the German and Italian forces in North Africa, yes? If so please explain what you mean by this comment -

I am amazed at the ingorance of the facts displayd by Americans on this forum. How many US soldiers were fighting the Germans and Itialians in Africa? None!

Obviously when you say "None!" you mean the opposite?

So yes I remember it but as the whole thing was more or less wrapped up did not think to put too much emphasis on it. But I suppose when it is your only major victory on the continent ever you have to remember it.

Couple of things here: Kasserine Pass was not an American victory, they were routed, and I'm not an American (which I think you might be implying.

if europe had not been there at all we could have delt with germany the same way we delt with Japan

Remind me on which exact continent your atlas places Germany, would you?

(No Europe = No Germany)

Oh, and I doubt Frances army are that weak, because they are pacifist and don't rush head long into stupid and pointless wars, like the US. Maybe you should watch something other than fox for a change.
LOL, this is the nation that won't give independance to any colony without having a war with them first. They are just picky about which ones are worth it to them.

If anyone noticed the topic of discussion it is not in fact which country won WWII. All of the Allies made valuable contributions and none of them could have won without the assisstance of the others. That being said there was no pressing need for the US to intervene in WWII, or WWI for that matter, it was essentially a European affair. However we chose to and in the post-war world it was, without a doubt, the American army that counterbalanced the military might of the USSR, allowing the war to remain Cold and allowing western Europe to devote the resources that they would have otherwise been forced to spend on defence to social welfare. Therefore they owe the US and should be our loyal allies.

But what I want to talk about now is what all of you who think Europe shouldn't help think is going to happen in Iraq if the US wins, and what is going to happen if the US pulls out in failure. I believe that if the US wins, Iraq will have a functioning, although weak to begin with, democracy, a capitalist economy based mainly on oil exports to the west, and a political environment in which religious leaders play a very significant role. This will provide a postive example of freedom and prosperity to the entire Middle East and will foster pro-democratic and pro-human rights reform in countries throughout the region.

I think that if the US fails, Iraq will denigrate into a 3-way civil war, Shiite versus Sunni versus Kurd. The Kurdish populations of Turkey and Iran will go to the aid of the Iraqi Kurds, destablizing both countries and spreading the fighting across the region. In particular Iranian Shiites, which make up 90% of the population, will likely offer significant support to Iraqi Shiites, who are in the minority. Sunni muslims in the Middle East will likely offer support to the Iraqi Sunni, who due to decades of repression are weak despite their majority status. Therefore, the failure of the US in Iraq could conceivably doom the entire Middle East to chaos and war. This is of course the perfect environment in which to recruit terrorists.

So why on earth do you people think it's a bad idea for Europe to help the US the hell out in Iraq when it could mean the difference between success and failure. If it's to punish American imperialism you should remember that those who will suffer most are not Americans, they're innocent Middle Easterners.

This thread has taught me one thing. I wish I was as smart as BWO.

how have we been a bad ally?

because we didn't go fight one war that was declared illegal with you?

or because we're not following trade agreements that we initiated... oops, that's the u.s., continuing to charge penalizing fees on our lumber.
is it because we're cutting off important industries... oops, again, that's the u.s., cutting off our beef for the disease of two cattle believed to have contracted it on american soil.

so how exactly are we being bad allies? we're out there in afghanistan keeping peace instead of off fighting people who didn't attack you. don't pick a fight and expect everyone to be on your side and then call them bad friends when they don't join in.

And whats a "model" ally? One that follows you without questioning into whatever you do?

Out of everything I limned in my post, THIS is what you pounce on? Good lord...

Canada has been spewing forth some of the most vehement anti-American aspersions in the world as of late.

Item One: The blatant (http://www.filibustercartoons.com/archive.php?id=20041122)

Item Two: The not-so-blatant (http://www.filibustercartoons.com/archive.php?id=20041213)

Item Three: The hypocrisy (http://www.filibustercartoons.com/archive.php?id=20041025)

To imply that an ally must be obsequious to be worthwhile is disgusting; we seek friends, not colonies. You two are unbelievable. :(

That being said there was no pressing need for the US to intervene in WWII, or WWI for that matter, it was essentially a European affair.

Apart from the fact that US citizens were killed in WWI and that Germany declared war on the US first in WWII?

However we chose to and in the post-war world it was, without a doubt, the American army that counterbalanced the military might of the USSR, allowing the war to remain Cold and allowing western Europe to devote the resources that they would have otherwise been forced to spend on defence to social welfare. Therefore they owe the US and should be our loyal allies.

You suggest that Europe only had welfare states because they could cut back their spending on military due to the US umbrella; I'd argue the welfare states would have been there regardless. The governments that introduced them would not have militarised anyway, so the reforms would have stood. As to whether this would have meant the USSR conquering Europe, well, it's conjecture as to just how expansionist the USSR really was (beyond the post-45 puppet states). Remember that the global revolution versus socialism in one country argument had been settled once Trotsky had been ousted (and was convincingly settled post-ice pick). And it wasn't the ideal of global revolution that won.

Northern Ireland is moving towards a self governing province as it is due to the process of devolution introduced by the UK government.

Something you fail to realise is that the reason casualties are now none-existant as opposed to the out and out terrorism of previous decades is due to the balance acheived between NI independance and affiliation with the rest of the UK. The Loyalists are happy because they're still British, and the Seperatists are happy because they're gaining some level of independance from that government. The populace in general is just happy that they're not being killed anymore.

People in Northern Ireland are "Free", as free as any other UK citizen, they are taxed and have representation in parliament. The British government cannot be blamed for elected Sinn Fein officials refusing to attend parliamentary debates or take office in westminster.

Just a minor note here, the independence movement in N. Ireland consists of about 3 men and a dog. Almost nobody wants independence, the argument is about which state they want the region to be a constituent member of.

If you knew ANYTHING about the war in the pacific, Japan was going to fight to the death.

Source?

<Snipped a lot of drivel about Northern Ireland>

My friend, your comments on a matter about which you have next to no knowledge is only serving to make you look ignorant. Please stop before you make an even bigger fool out of yourself. Thank you. TBH, that goes for you too, Lightning Star.

Actually, I'll widen this comment. Please, everyone, try to develop at least a basic grasp about the subject you are discussing before commenting. I think this must be one of the largest collections of ill-informed tripe, from both sides, ever seen on the internet, and that is saying something. I've been amazed at the lack of even basic knowledge about WW2, let alone any of the other conflicts being discussed. Christ, if you're going to engage in a historical debate make sure you have more than dimly recalled classes from high-school (even if the class was this morning) to go on.

I love how you think you know everything. Osama isn't from Afghanistan, idiot. He is Saudi. He had refuge in Afghanistan. He doesn't originate from there. I love when people who take the high and mighty stance make stupid mistakes.

Good to see in my whole sentence thats the only comment you can make. keep up on the education wont you. BTW as far as the US are concerned if they have a turban they are the enemy so doen't really matter where he 'originated' from you just go and shoot him anyway.

You Americans make me laugh. You are the most morally corrupt society in the World. You are ruled by the media, lied to by your politicians, and try to give yourself a sense of superiority by claiming that "Europe owes us". You think that you are so superior to the rest of the World with your mega bucks and big powerful army. Also you are'nt arrogant, you are self delusional. Now the British are arrogant, but they dont feel the need to shout it from the rooftops, British patriotism does'nt need flags and banners. Its bred into us, we dont need symbols of it. Also the widespread corruption and moral decadence in American society is hardly the right attitude for a country claiming to be the World policeman is it? The British will always be superior to America. Because we dont sell out when an oil contract is wafted in front of us. And please dont call us socialist, just because we dont charge poeple in our hospitals instead of turning away the sick, doesnt mean that we are socialists. As for the World Wars, well, dont preach about them. You helped us win WWII just as you raised the tension with your other ridicolous wars in Vietnam and Korea and Iraq. Why didnt you just TALK to the Russians instead of building bombs and missiles? You can solve much more by talking than by fighting, diplomacy is always the best way. We have helped you win far more wars than you have helped us. Korea was won with the sacrifice of many British lives. You would not have stood a chance in Iraq without the British. And isnt it strange how there's more violence in the American sectors than the British ones? Maybe thats because the British dont just shoot on sight. British soldiers dont like patrolling American sectors because they are afraid to be shot by them. Some Danish troops have refused point blank to patrol them because they just get shot on sight. Just consider the other side of the argument before you start claiming that everyone owes you. Also maybe take a dose of humility next time before opening your fat, blubbery mouthes. Arrogance isnt something that you shout about, its something inside you. Remember that, Yanks. And I know there are huge numbers of very good and reasonable Americans out there and this diatribe is not aimed at them. Its for the ones who think they are the worlds greatest. YOU ARE'NT.

I second that

:rolleyes: Out of everything I limned in my post, THIS is what you pounce on? Good lord...

Canada has been spewing forth some of the most vehement anti-American aspersions in the world as of late.

Item One: The blatant (http://www.filibustercartoons.com/archive.php?id=20041122)

Item Two: The not-so-blatant (http://www.filibustercartoons.com/archive.php?id=20041213)

Item Three: The hypocrisy (http://www.filibustercartoons.com/archive.php?id=20041025)

To imply that an ally must be obsequious to be worthwhile is disgusting; we seek friends, not colonies. You two are unbelievable. :(
These blatantly anti Canadian cartoons are your proof? Whining and bitching that Canada doesn't support your colonial war or your warlord is a way to make friends? Mouthing of at France, and the rest of Europe who doesn't do your bidding, is a way to make friends?
And you call us unbelievabal? :rolleyes:
The US is a friend to no one. Everyone would be better off to limit their interactions with them to a minimum.

LOL, this is the nation that won't give independance to any colony without having a war with them first. They are just picky about which ones are worth it to them.
Admittedly the won't let there coloneys go, which is wrong (in my view) however that could be seen as thrying to hold onto there terratory, and they havn't gone around invading innocent contrys.

<Bunch of drivel about how everbody else is unintelligent>Is this your only argument, us being "unintelligent"? Come on my six year old cousin can come up with a better argument. An besides if you read my latter posts you would know I got of that partucular subject matter. AN what truly is "intelligence" knowing a bunch of "big words" to confuse those who would know better, or is it the remembering of countless formulas that only effect you once you enter a feild of employment, or is it the ability to think outside of the box, to think beyound those formulas and "big words"? Truth, we may never know, but as long as we continue to qeustion we will continue to get more and more answers.

SO, please come up with a more solid foundation for your argument, please?

In my opinion, the US owes Germany (and Finland) for screwing up their take-over-the-world thingy. And you owe Egypt\scandinavia\China\Portugal\the Native Americans for finding you, so yeah.






Im sleepy.

Please, in the name of what ever diety you pray to, shut down this pointless thread, and I do mean POINTLESS, so please shut this thread down.

:rolleyes:
These blatantly anti Canadian cartoons are your proof? Whining and bitching that Canada doesn't support your colonial war or your warlord is a way to make friends? Mouthing of at France, and the rest of Europe who doesn't do your bidding, is a way to make friends?
And you call us unbelievabal? :rolleyes:
The US is a friend to no one. Everyone would be better off to limit their interactions with them to a minimum.

Mother. Of. God.

Number one, these cartoons were made by a Canadian. Yes, a person can despise his or her own nationality (although I strongly doubt that is the case in this scenario), but you speak as if this is American propoganda.

Number two, did you even read the cartoons? I'd accept ire that was buttressed with something substantial (moral objections, ideological differences, et cetera), but the fact is that more than half of this tripe is anti-Americanism.

Number three, go ahead and limit your contact with our nation. After all, it's not as if you become outraged when we balk at unfair or unnecessary trade proposals. Yup, we're useless - but only when we're not of direct benefit to you, economically, militarily, or otherwise. Sigh.

Number four, we don't mouth off at those who "don't do our bidding," we express frustration at those who generate difficulties for us for NO BLOODY REASON. During Gulf War I, for example, French leaders wouldn't let us fly over their airspace en route to Iraq/Kuwait from British bases, and the resulting circuitous flight path caused incredible delays considering the length of the individual missions. Tell me, was the United States the aggressor during that war? Was a small nation not being invaded by a bellicose neighbor? Did we not have a right to be irritated? And tell me this - did we retaliate against France in any way? No, we respected their wishes and flew around their country.

Ms. Witzleben, I'm sorry to have to say this, but you're a moron, and I've tolerated your willfully ignorant arguments for as long as I can. I never said you had to agree with the war in Iraq; as a matter of fact, I made explicit the fact that I don't expect that of anyone. If you want to debate effectively, listen to what your opponent has to say, shun the straw man, and stay on topic. I understand that this issue is delicate and controversial enough to allow passionate emotions to obfuscate rational discussion, but you aren't even making an effort.

Good day, madam.

oh god not another one of these threads

:rolleyes:
These blatantly anti Canadian cartoons are your proof? Whining and bitching that Canada doesn't support your colonial war or your warlord is a way to make friends? Mouthing of at France, and the rest of Europe who doesn't do your bidding, is a way to make friends?
And you call us unbelievabal? :rolleyes:
The US is a friend to no one. Everyone would be better off to limit their interactions with them to a minimum.

Hat of Sir, best post on NS today is yours. Of course, your intelligence is out of the Neanderthal reach of Candah and other US fascists. Strange, when I see U$ dummies post this beloved word of them, they allways write it wrong (without the "c").

Mother. Of. God.

Number one, these cartoons were made by a Canadian. Yes, a person can despise his or her own nationality (although I strongly doubt that is the case in this scenario), but you speak as if this is American propoganda.
Who made the cartoons isn't realy the issue. But you pick cartoons as evidence that Canada is not a "model" ally. By the way you still haven't enlightened me what a "model" ally is supposed to do. Agree with the US's every move? Agree and support it? Disagree but shut up? What?

Number two, did you even read the cartoons? I'd accept ire that was buttressed with something substantial (moral objections, ideological differences, et cetera), but the fact is that more than half of this tripe is anti-Americanism.
Americans always drag the freedom of speech argument into every argument when they badmouth the French, Germans, Russians etc.....But if Canadians use that very freedom of speech against the warmonger it should be what? Outlawed? Or just censored so it won't hurt the "sensitive" feelings of the Americans?

Number three, go ahead and limit your contact with our nation. After all, it's not as if you become outraged when we balk at unfair or unnecessary trade proposals. Yup, we're useless - but only when we're not of direct benefit to you, economically, militarily, or otherwise. Sigh.
Oh sigh....not like the US never tried to limit their pet project of free trade with other nations to benefit US firms. Yes. Contact with the US should be limited only to the necessary things. And Americans should be fingerprinted and DNA profiled if they enter another country as well.

Number four, we don't mouth off at those who "don't do our bidding," we express frustration at those who generate difficulties for us for NO BLOODY REASON.
Like invading a sovereign nation under the guise of lies to install a puppet regime? Poor you.
During Gulf War I, for example, French leaders wouldn't let us fly over their airspace en route to Iraq/Kuwait from British bases, and the resulting circuitous flight path caused incredible delays considering the length of the individual missions.
Those darn French. Only sending in 15,000 troops to support you.
Tell me, was the United States the aggressor during that war? Was a small nation not being invaded by a bellicose neighbor?
Who asked US permission to invade and got it?
Did we not have a right to be irritated?
No. Not realy. Since they supported the war effort back then.
Ms. Witzleben, I'm sorry to have to say this, but you're a moron, and I've tolerated your willfully ignorant arguments for as long as I can. I never said you had to agree with the war in Iraq; as a matter of fact, I made explicit the fact that I don't expect that of anyone. If you want to debate effectively, listen to what your opponent has to say, shun the straw man, and stay on topic. I understand that this issue is delicate and controversial enough to allow passionate emotions to obfuscate rational discussion, but you aren't even making an effort.

Good day, madam.
Making presumptions to my sex and getting it wrong is not a sign of your outstanding intelligence. Idiot.

You have to admit, Cabbae Patch GIRL is not a good way to show your masculinity. :headbang:

Great post Von Witzleben ,you almost führer killer at the Wofsschanze (22/7/1944)(100€ on it that most U$$'ers don't know him). Like allways, you winn with 100 to 0.

BTW, nen zaligen en gelukkigen kerst gewenst. Vanwege de nu hier geweerde manager van een hotelletje in Z Engeland, gespeeld door John Cleese :)

Oh dear, he's invoked spelling errors. Let's play a little game, shall we?

Hat of Sir, best post on NS today is yours. Of course, your intelligence is out of the Neanderthal reach of Candah and other US fascists. Strange, when I see U$ dummies post this beloved word of them, they allways write it wrong (without the "c").
Spelling errors: 1 ("allways")
Grammatical errors: 1 ("this beloved word of them")
Idiomatic errors: 1 ("write it wrong")
Word count: 46
Writing accuracy: 93%


:rolleyes:
These blatantly anti Canadian cartoons are your proof? Whining and bitching that Canada doesn't support your colonial war or your warlord is a way to make friends? Mouthing of at France, and the rest of Europe who doesn't do your bidding, is a way to make friends?
And you call us unbelievabal?:rolleyes:
The US is a friend to no one. Everyone would be better off to limit their interactions with them to a minimum.
Spelling errors: 2 ("mouth of" and "unbelievabal")
Grammatical errors: 5 ("anti Canadian" should be hyphenated, two superfluous commas in sentence three, two occurences of incorrect pronominal agreement in sentence six; the proper phrasing is, "Everyone would be better off to limit his or her interactions with it (or her, if you prefer) to a minimum.")
Idiomatic errors: 0
Word count: 58
Writing accuracy: 88%

Mother. Of. God.

Number one, these cartoons were made by a Canadian. Yes, a person can despise his or her own nationality (although I strongly doubt that is the case in this scenario), but you speak as if this is American propoganda.

Number two, did you even read the cartoons? I'd accept ire that was buttressed with something substantial (moral objections, ideological differences, et cetera), but the fact is that more than half of this tripe is anti-Americanism.

Number three, go ahead and limit your contact with our nation. After all, it's not as if you become outraged when we balk at unfair or unnecessary trade proposals. Yup, we're useless - but only when we're not of direct benefit to you, economically, militarily, or otherwise. Sigh.

Number four, we don't mouth off at those who "don't do our bidding," we express frustration at those who generate difficulties for us for NO BLOODY REASON. During Gulf War I, for example, French leaders wouldn't let us fly over their airspace en route to Iraq/Kuwait from British bases, and the resulting circuitous flight path caused incredible delays considering the length of the individual missions. Tell me, was the United States the aggressor during that war? Was a small nation not being invaded by a bellicose neighbor? Did we not have a right to be irritated? And tell me this - did we retaliate against France in any way? No, we respected their wishes and flew around their country.

Ms. Witzleben, I'm sorry to have to say this, but you're a moron, and I've tolerated your willfully ignorant arguments for as long as I can. I never said you had to agree with the war in Iraq; as a matter of fact, I made explicit the fact that I don't expect that of anyone. If you want to debate effectively, listen to what your opponent has to say, shun the straw man, and stay on topic. I understand that this issue is delicate and controversial enough to allow passionate emotions to obfuscate rational discussion, but you aren't even making an effort.

Good day, madam
Spelling errors: 1 (Bollocks, I spelled propaganda wrong! Silly me, I know that word, too! It's too late to change it, however, and I admit I made a stupid typing error.)
Grammatical errors: 0
Idiomatic errors: 0
Word count: 350
Writing accuracy: 99.7%


If you want a contest, love, you'll get one. 'Sides, you're still ignoring the fact that I've yet to state a position on the war in Iraq (be it positive or negative); the majority of my post was about Canada's recent vituperative nature towards America and the inability of certain people to deliver a congruous response to the content presented to them. Given your retort, I suppose I've made my point.

Sigh.

Oh dear, he's invoked spelling errors. Let's play a little game, shall we?


Spelling errors: 1 ("allways")
Grammatical errors: 1 ("this beloved word of them")
Idiomatic errors: 1 ("write it wrong")
Word count: 46
Writing accuracy: 93%


Spelling errors: 2 ("mouth of" and "unbelievabal")
Grammatical errors: 5 ("anti Canadian" should be hyphenated, two superfluous commas in sentence three, two occurences of incorrect pronominal agreement in sentence six; the proper phrasing is, "Everyone would be better off to limit his or her interactions with it (or her, if you prefer) to a minimum.")
Idiomatic errors: 0
Word count: 58
Writing accuracy: 88%


Spelling errors: 1 (Bollocks, I spelled propaganda wrong! Silly me, I know that word, too! It's too late to change it, however, and I admit I made a stupid typing error.)
Grammatical errors: 0
Idiomatic errors: 0
Word count: 350
Writing accuracy: 99.7%


If you want a contest, love, you'll get one. 'Sides, you're still ignoring the fact that I've yet to state a position on the war in Iraq (be it positive or negative); the majority of my post was about Canada's recent vituperative nature towards America and the inability of certain people to deliver a congruous response to the content presented to them. Given your retort, I suppose I've made my point.

Sigh.

Well kiddo, when you can repeat that in : Dutch, French, German, Italian, Romanian (he domnlui), Spanish...then we can talk, alltough It was long ago that I researched Neanderthalers like ya. (BTW, long post, I just read the begin, the rest will be as dull) :p

My mothertongue is not English, so what the f.... but I understand that you are a intellectual when you speak two languages in Jezusland (formerly called the US). Hmm we all speak at least 5. And fascist (you've got to know) is still with a "c" (comes from Italian) :upyours: Up yours.

You Americans make me laugh.
You're welcome.

You are the most morally corrupt society in the World. You are ruled by the media, lied to by your politicians, and try to give yourself a sense of superiority by claiming that "Europe owes us".
I don't believe that Europe owes the US anything.

You think that you are so superior to the rest of the World with your mega bucks and big powerful army.
I don't think I'm superior to the rest of the world. And I don't have "mega" bucks or a big powerful army.

Also you are'nt arrogant, you are self delusional. Now the British are arrogant, but they dont feel the need to shout it from the rooftops, British patriotism does'nt need flags and banners. Its bred into us, we dont need symbols of it. Also the widespread corruption and moral decadence in American society is hardly the right attitude for a country claiming to be the World policeman is it?

I didn't realize we had "claimed" to be the world policeman. Strangely enough the UN secretary general asked for US assistance in the Liberian civil war, yet France has troops stationed in Cote d'Ivorie and did nothing to assist the Liberians!


The British will always be superior to America. Because we dont sell out when an oil contract is wafted in front of us. And please dont call us socialist, just because we dont charge poeple in our hospitals instead of turning away the sick,

Actually, my daughter was diagnosed with appendicitis and was admitted that day and had successful surgery within hours. So much for "turning away the sick".


doesnt mean that we are socialists. As for the World Wars, well, dont preach about them. You helped us win WWII just as you raised the tension with your other ridicolous wars in Vietnam and Korea and Iraq.

Korea? Our war? I guess that talk about North Korea invading South Korea was just propaganda!

Vietnam? I guess you need to google "Dien Bien Phu".

Iraq? Yeah, turning our back on an enemy(al-qaeda) really worked didn't it? Can you say "9/11"??


Why didnt you just TALK to the Russians instead of building bombs and missiles? You can solve much more by talking than by fighting, diplomacy is always the best way.

Tell us about diplomacy....
Chamberlain 1938

And just exactly what were the Russians building?? Considering they couldn't grow enough food to feed their country, but had enough money to fund their military.

We have helped you win far more wars than you have helped us. Korea was won with the sacrifice of many British lives. You would not have stood a chance in Iraq without the British. And isnt it strange how there's more violence in the American sectors than the British ones?

Isn't it strange how all the world's ills are blamed on the US?

YET:
1. We didn't build a nuclear reactor for Israel and sell them the fuel for it(France)
2. We didn't build a nuclear reactor for Iraq(France)
3. We didn't build a nuclear reactor for Iran(Russia)
4. We didn't invade Afghanistan in '79, yet due to that invasion al-qaeda is in existance.
5. We didn't establish the Balfour declaration that started the vision of a homeland for the Jews.(Britain)


Maybe thats because the British dont just shoot on sight. British soldiers dont like patrolling American sectors because they are afraid to be shot by them.Some Danish troops have refused point blank to patrol them because they just get shot on sight. Just consider the other side of the argument before you start claiming that everyone owes you.

I don't believe Europe owes the US anything.

Also maybe take a dose of humility next time before opening your fat, blubbery mouthes. Arrogance isnt something that you shout about, its something inside you. Remember that, Yanks. And I know there are huge numbers of very good and reasonable Americans out there and this diatribe is not aimed at them. Its for the ones who think they are the worlds greatest. YOU ARE'NT.

Shock there.

You Americans make me laugh. You are the most morally corrupt society in the World. You are ruled by the media, lied to by your politicians, and try to give yourself a sense of superiority by claiming that "Europe owes us". You think that you are so superior to the rest of the World with your mega bucks and big powerful army. Also you are'nt arrogant, you are self delusional. Now the British are arrogant, but they dont feel the need to shout it from the rooftops, British patriotism does'nt need flags and banners. Its bred into us, we dont need symbols of it. Also the widespread corruption and moral decadence in American society is hardly the right attitude for a country claiming to be the World policeman is it? The British will always be superior to America. Because we dont sell out when an oil contract is wafted in front of us. And please dont call us socialist, just because we dont charge poeple in our hospitals instead of turning away the sick, doesnt mean that we are socialists. As for the World Wars, well, dont preach about them. You helped us win WWII just as you raised the tension with your other ridicolous wars in Vietnam and Korea and Iraq. Why didnt you just TALK to the Russians instead of building bombs and missiles? You can solve much more by talking than by fighting, diplomacy is always the best way. We have helped you win far more wars than you have helped us. Korea was won with the sacrifice of many British lives. You would not have stood a chance in Iraq without the British. And isnt it strange how there's more violence in the American sectors than the British ones? Maybe thats because the British dont just shoot on sight. British soldiers dont like patrolling American sectors because they are afraid to be shot by them. Some Danish troops have refused point blank to patrol them because they just get shot on sight. Just consider the other side of the argument before you start claiming that everyone owes you. Also maybe take a dose of humility next time before opening your fat, blubbery mouthes. Arrogance isnt something that you shout about, its something inside you. Remember that, Yanks. And I know there are huge numbers of very good and reasonable Americans out there and this diatribe is not aimed at them. Its for the ones who think they are the worlds greatest. YOU ARE'NT.

I second that

I’ll third it!

Well done Gintonpar – you’ve beautifully articulated everything that I wanted to say on the matter. Bravo darling! *Applauds*

You're welcome.

I don't believe that Europe owes the US anything.

I don't think I'm superior to the rest of the world. And I don't have "mega" bucks or a big powerful army.


I didn't realize we had "claimed" to be the world policeman. Strangely enough the UN secretary general asked for US assistance in the Liberian civil war, yet France has troops stationed in Cote d'Ivorie and did nothing to assist the Liberians!



Actually, my daughter was diagnosed with appendicitis and was admitted that day and had successful surgery within hours. So much for "turning away the sick".



Korea? Our war? I guess that talk about North Korea invading South Korea was just propaganda!

Vietnam? I guess you need to google "Dien Bien Phu".

Iraq? Yeah, turning our back on an enemy(al-qaeda) really worked didn't it? Can you say "9/11"??



Tell us about diplomacy....
Chamberlain 1938

And just exactly what were the Russians building?? Considering they couldn't grow enough food to feed their country, but had enough money to fund their military.


Isn't it strange how all the world's ills are blamed on the US?

YET:
1. We didn't build a nuclear reactor for Israel and sell them the fuel for it(France)
2. We didn't build a nuclear reactor for Iraq(France)
3. We didn't build a nuclear reactor for Iran(Russia)
4. We didn't invade Afghanistan in '79, yet due to that invasion al-qaeda is in existance.
5. We didn't establish the Balfour declaration that started the vision of a homeland for the Jews.(Britain)



I don't believe Europe owes the US anything.


Shock there.

He was probably talking rather generally...

As opposed to the superiority mega bucks and big army, again I think he was talking about the US as a nation, not individually (wrong though he may be)

The US has not declared itself the worlds policeman no, though it has stepped into conflicts where it has deemed that doing so is in its best interests. It has also assumed the role of a world policeman through NATO (as have other nations).

I am happy to hear that your daughter had her appendicitis fixed quickly, my sister was diagnosed with that too, its a pretty nasty if not serious illness (when treated quickly). However, I think what he's hinting at is that you don't need medical insurance to receive treatment in many nations (if you are a citizen of that nation of course). Granted, I will allow that the US has such schemes as medicaid (sp), but you'll probably agree that such schemes are not as comprehensive as those available in Europe.

When quoting diplomacy with regard to chamberlain in 1938, I honestly don't think that he did anything wrong. All available channels were taken to avoid war before it was actually declared. A line was stated to the german government, it was crossed and war was declared. You didn't see the US taking such a stand till its hand was forced, although its assistance was appreciated.

Not all the worlds ills are blamed on the US, you probably just tend to hear gripes about the US because it is arguable the most powerful and richest nation on the earth. Other nations aren't saints when it comes to foreign policy, but neither is the US.

For the record, Al Qaeda is not an exclusively afghani organisation, it was based in afghanistan, but it has members from practically all middle-eastern Arab nations.

I didn't realize we had "claimed" to be the world policeman. Strangely enough the UN secretary general asked for US assistance in the Liberian civil war, yet France has troops stationed in Cote d'Ivorie and did nothing to assist the Liberians.

Just a little help: it were the French that evacuate the US citizens there last year. Remember the images of 1800 US families evacuated waving French flags while being US....(I guess it was censured at Fox but CNN had it,like the rest of the world).

If the French would not be there, we would have have another Rwanda 1994.
They stayed and were bombed while protecting the people there. Your view is the one of a pervert or the one of a sick mind that invents every lie to harm the French (or like I guess every EU citizen).

Who made the cartoons isn't realy the issue. But you pick cartoons as evidence that Canada is not a "model" ally. By the way you still haven't enlightened me what a "model" ally is supposed to do. Agree with the US's every move? Agree and support it? Disagree but shut up? What?
Why all the prejudice towards cartoons? They're as good a medium as any other, and these in particular convey my points concisely and effectively. As shocked as I am by the need to explicitly state this, politicals cartoons reflect the current state of affairs, muchacho.

Model ally? I can't claim to know with absolute certainty what a model ally is, but I would imagine it could disagree with us sans the gross antipathy.

Americans always drag the freedom of speech argument into every argument when they badmouth the French, Germans, Russians etc.....But if Canadians use that very freedom of speech against the warmonger it should be what? Outlawed? Or just censored so it won't hurt the "sensitive" feelings of the Americans?
Are you bloody deaf? How many times have I said that verbal enmity should be directed towards the government of a nation whose policies you disagree with, not its citizens? How many times have I chastised others for calling Europeans stupid cowards? How many damn times have I said that being rationally upset with another nation for its policies is usually acceptable, but hating it for the sake of hatred is not? Y'know, it's legal for me to say I despise Canadians, but I would never utter such a thing because it's an unfair generalization; most Canucks I know are lovely. Besides, much of what people around the world are saying about their foreign neighbors is defamatory, and freedom of speech doesn't always cover slander and libel.

Oh sigh....not like the US never tried to limit their pet project of free trade with other nations to benefit US firms. Yes. Contact with the US should be limited only to the necessary things. And Americans should be fingerprinted and DNA profiled if they enter another country as well.
And yet there was (morally correct) outrage when a couple of stupid Yanks said the same thing about Muslim-Americans...

Like invading a sovereign nation under the guise of lies to install a puppet regime? Poor you.
Oh, please! That specious argument has been done to death. Invest a little creativity in your silly theories next time, dear.

Those darn French. Only sending in 15,000 troops to support you.
Check your facts. Only a mear 290,000 US troops were killed throughout the war. And guess what. Not all of them fought in Europe.
If nearly 300,000 killed American troops qualifies as mere (or "mear," as you so orthographically astutely claimed), then 15,000 mostly surviving troops is an insult. (Either that, or the life of an American is worth less than five percent that of a Frenchman.) Be consistent, m'dear!

Who asked US permission to invade and got it?
Who asked the US permission to invade Germany during WWII? If someone is under attack, you don't need permission to offer assistance. What happened to this "milk of human kindness" that Americans allegedly know nothing of?

No. Not realy. Since they supported the war effort back then.
They certainly had a curiously inconsistent way of showing support.

Making presumptions to my sex and getting it wrong is not a sign of your outstanding intelligence. Idiot.
Declaring yourself a "Cabbage Patch Girl" and taking offense when others assume you're female is not a sign of your outstanding intelligence. Idiot.

You Americans make me laugh. You are the most morally corrupt society in the World. You are ruled by the media, lied to by your politicians, and try to give yourself a sense of superiority by claiming that "Europe owes us". You think that you are so superior to the rest of the World with your mega bucks and big powerful army. Also you are'nt arrogant, you are self delusional. Now the British are arrogant, but they dont feel the need to shout it from the rooftops, British patriotism does'nt need flags and banners. Its bred into us, we dont need symbols of it. Also the widespread corruption and moral decadence in American society is hardly the right attitude for a country claiming to be the World policeman is it? The British will always be superior to America. Because we dont sell out when an oil contract is wafted in front of us. And please dont call us socialist, just because we dont charge poeple in our hospitals instead of turning away the sick, doesnt mean that we are socialists. As for the World Wars, well, dont preach about them. You helped us win WWII just as you raised the tension with your other ridicolous wars in Vietnam and Korea and Iraq. Why didnt you just TALK to the Russians instead of building bombs and missiles? You can solve much more by talking than by fighting, diplomacy is always the best way. We have helped you win far more wars than you have helped us. Korea was won with the sacrifice of many British lives. You would not have stood a chance in Iraq without the British. And isnt it strange how there's more violence in the American sectors than the British ones? Maybe thats because the British dont just shoot on sight. British soldiers dont like patrolling American sectors because they are afraid to be shot by them. Some Danish troops have refused point blank to patrol them because they just get shot on sight. Just consider the other side of the argument before you start claiming that everyone owes you. Also maybe take a dose of humility next time before opening your fat, blubbery mouthes. Arrogance isnt something that you shout about, its something inside you. Remember that, Yanks. And I know there are huge numbers of very good and reasonable Americans out there and this diatribe is not aimed at them. Its for the ones who think they are the worlds greatest. YOU ARE'NT.

I can only second this arguemented and polite post. :cool:

Just a little help: it were the French that evacuate the US citizens there last year. Remember the images of 1800 US families evacuated waving French flags while being US....(I guess it was censured at Fox but CNN had it,like the rest of the world).

If the French would not be there, we would have have another Rwanda 1994.
They stayed and were bombed while protecting the people there. Your view is the one of a pervert or the one of a sick mind that invents every lie to harm the French (or like I guess every EU citizen).

So now I'm a pervert??


You mean this............

PARIS - France's official implication in the Rwanda genocide of 1994, revealed this month by the newspaper Le Figaro, demonstrates the power of history, even bad history, to influence a politician's decisions. It also provides disconcerting evidence of certain recurrent traits in the behavior of the French political class.
The newspaper told how French soldiers trained many of Rwandan soldiers and militiamen who later carried out the genocide, did not interfere when the genocide began, and subsequently were ordered to help the killers' leaders to escape.

Since publication, there has been an oppressive silence on the matter, broken only by a Foreign Ministry denial that arms had been supplied in violation of a UN arms embargo.

Can you say Iraq-Saddam-"oil for food scam"?? Some things don't change.

No other national newspaper, television chain or magazine has taken up the reports, or challenged them. There has been no editorial comment. There have been no manifestos by French intellectuals, usually prompt to protest violations of human rights, ready to march through the streets demanding justice.

Editors at Le Figaro say they are aware of no official or press reaction whatever, other than off-the-record official comments deploring the revival of ''an old story.''

What is old about the story is that all this was widely rumored at the time of the 1994 slaughter, and was denied by the French government.

What is new is that France's involvement now has public confirmation from witnesses, participants and official inquiries by the United Nations and the Belgian Parliament.

Declaring yourself a "Cabbage Patch Girl" and taking offense when others assume you're female is not a sign of your outstanding intelligence. Idiot.

Hmm, I'll just anounced you for flaiming, is not that nice.I'll have to ad this to your former flaming now :)

Hmm, I'll just anounced you for flaiming, is not that nice.I'll have to ad this to your former flaming now :)

Has anyone illuminated them to the fact that "Cabbage Patch Girl" is a title given to people on the basis of their post count?

Has anyone illuminated them to the fact that "Cabbage Patch Girl" is a title given to people on the basis of their post count?

Wich means in normal English? In fact I don't understand your slang as a non English speaker. Please enleighten the class, big poster (wich doesn't impress me at all). Under his acount it says "member".

PARIS - France's official implication in the Rwanda genocide of 1994, revealed this month by the newspaper Le Figaro, demonstrates the power of history, even bad history, to influence a politician's decisions. It also provides disconcerting evidence of certain recurrent traits in the behavior of the French political class.
The newspaper told how French soldiers trained many of Rwandan soldiers and militiamen who later carried out the genocide, did not interfere when the genocide began, and subsequently were ordered to help the killers' leaders to escape.

Since publication, there has been an oppressive silence on the matter, broken only by a Foreign Ministry denial that arms had been supplied in violation of a UN arms embargo.




Nice FOX news, last time that I read the NY Times and other non biased US media, I read that it was the US that armed the Huttu for the genocides via the US conglomerates that want the rare coltan. Hmm, thruth must hurt, sorry for that small correction.

BTW what about the 1000's of US citizens evacuated by the French in Ivory coast waving French flags and thanking them. Forgot that :rolleyes:

Hmm, I'll just anounced you for flaiming, is not that nice.I'll have to ad this to your former flaming now :)

You're joking, right? He called me an idiot first; I was mirroring his exact phrasing. It's called satire, kids.

Observe:
Making presumptions to my sex and getting it wrong is not a sign of your outstanding intelligence. Idiot.
Declaring yourself a "Cabbage Patch Girl" and taking offense when others assume you're female is not a sign of your outstanding intelligence. Idiot.
You see what I did there? <famous quote>It's a comedy! :) </famous quote>

I was not aware that "Cabbage Patch Girl" is an automatic title, but declaring me a moron for making a reasonable assumption based on available (and ostentatious) data is still unfair.

You're joking, right? He called me an idiot first; I was mirroring his exact phrasing. It's called satire, kids.


Sorry kid, calling it now satire is to late for an excuse to him and a bit coward. Please don't crawl back now. The mods will decide if it was "satire", not you.

PARIS - France's official implication in the Rwanda genocide of 1994, revealed this month by the newspaper Le Figaro, demonstrates the power of history, even bad history, to influence a politician's decisions. It also provides disconcerting evidence of certain recurrent traits in the behavior of the French political class.
The newspaper told how French soldiers trained many of Rwandan soldiers and militiamen who later carried out the genocide, did not interfere when the genocide began, and subsequently were ordered to help the killers' leaders to escape.

Since publication, there has been an oppressive silence on the matter, broken only by a Foreign Ministry denial that arms had been supplied in violation of a UN arms embargo.




Nice FOX news, last time that I read the NY Times and other non biased US media, I read that it was the US that armed the Huttu for the genocides via the US conglomerates that want the rare coltan. Hmm, thruth must hurt, sorry for that small correction.

I guess you missed the part about "Le Figaro"....

Fox news?? Is that your excuse??

Author and newspaper:
By William Pfaff - International Herald Tribune

International Herald Tribune - The world's daily newspaper, edited and printed in Paris.


BTW what about the 1000's of US citizens evacuated

removal of foreign civilians............ie: foreign witnesses.

by the French in Ivory coast waving French flags and thanking them. Forgot that :rolleyes:

That justifies murdering protesting Ivorians?? Which was categorically denied by the French government for over a month!

Sorry kid, calling it now satire is to late for an excuse to him and a bit coward. Please don't crawl back now. The mods will decide if it was "satire", not you.

Why else would I phrase it in the exact same way?

Better yet, why was *I* reported for facetiously calling Von Witzleben a name he called me first?

Even better yet, who cares? I think everyone here has enough of a sense of humor and resilience not to go crying to mommy when someone calls us a generic name. Via Ferrata, I have issued my own report to the moderators in which I request that Von Witzleben not be the subject of reproof for calling me an idiot. By the same token, however, I gently remind them that it would be unfair to punish me without holding him accountable as well.

I feel like I'm back on my first grade playground. Again, I know the sensitive subject matter of the issue at hand (or formerly at hand before this whole debacle) can make for passionate, unreasonable reactions, but PLEASE try to be rational!

Which death protesters? The FOX ones? Or the terrorists (US sponsored thugs) that fight against the people and the UN posts?Terrorists, a term often used by the US in Iraq against the people there.Or the ones that bomb peace forces with US bombs and Russian pillots there? Do you mean terrorists by the people tortured by the US in Afghanistan, Iraq or even the 100's of political muslim prisonars in the USmuslims in the uS itself?

Your regime, kid is just like Stalin and Nazi Germany the last to give lessons in human rights. but you've an excuse, you really need some more free press.
Most US business people that go abroad and have so acces to unfiltered media come back to the US with other news (just like it was in the Vietnam era) and have a better eye on the world now (hey that's what all those US foreign people say here in the free world).

America played it's part in world war II, but it was not America that decided the outcome of that war. The greatest and most costly battles of the war were on the eastern front. The United States lost about 300,000 (Some estimates place it at 500,000). A strong sacrifice. But Russia lost about 20,000,000 (Some estimates place it as high as 40,000,000, though this is unlikely, though there is a good chance that the numbers may be as high 30,000,000).

The total amount of those killed in world war II is beileved to be 56,000,000 (that would be the lowest estimate I have seen and counts the russian losses at 20 million). Russia lost more then any other country and they broke the back of the german army (the battle of Stalingrad), before the bulk of the supplies sent by britian and the america had arrived!

Now as for europe owing America anything, I would say they do not! You shouldn't send help to those who need it, only to turn around and say "Ok, we did this for you, now you owe us!"

Which death protesters? The FOX ones? Or the terrorists (US sponsored thugs) that fight against the people and the UN posts?Terrorists, a term often used by the US in Iraq against the people there.Or the ones that bomb peace forces with US bombs and Russian pillots there? Do you mean terrorists by the people tortured by the US in Afghanistan, Iraq or even the 100's of political muslim prisonars in the USmuslims in the uS itself?

Your regime, kid is just like Stalin and Nazi Germany the last to give lessons in human rights. but you've an excuse, you really need some more free press.
Most US business people that go abroad and have so acces to unfiltered media come back to the US with other news (just like it was in the Vietnam era) and have a better eye on the world now (hey that's what all those US foreign people say here in the free world).

Reuters...

ABIDJAN (Reuters) - French troops killed about 20 people in Ivory Coast during unrest earlier this month, the Defense Ministry in Paris said on Tuesday, as controversy grew over the French military's handling of the crisis.

Human rights groups called on the French parliament to investigate whether French forces overreacted to mob violence which erupted after France destroyed the West African country's air force in response to a deadly strike on its peacekeepers.

"Shooting like this on civilian populations without firearms goes far beyond the needs of maintaining order and the mandate which has been given to the French armed forces," the International Federation of Human Rights (FIDH) said.

France has strongly defended the troops in its former colony, insisting they acted with restraint and only to protect French and other foreign nationals from attacks by militant supporters of President Laurent Gbagbo.

The latest crisis in the world's top cocoa grower began when government forces broke an 18-month cease-fire to bomb the rebel-held north and killed nine French soldiers in one raid.

The French military had at first declined to state how many people it had killed during the subsequent unrest and maintained it had not fired on protesters. However a Defense Ministry spokesman on Tuesday said an estimated 20 Ivorians were killed.

He said the victims, both citizens and soldiers, were killed near the airport of the main city Abidjan on Nov. 6, during the movement of French troops from the north to Abidjan in the following two days and at the city's Hotel Ivoire on Nov. 9.

You're welcome.

From ABC news........

Ivory Coast accuses France of shooting civilians
By Africa correspondent Sally Sara

The Government of the Ivory Coast is planning to take legal action against French troops accused of shooting civilians.

The Ivorian Government is taking its case to the International Court of Justice.

Ivory Coast accused French troops of killing up to 60 people during an anti-French demonstration in the commercial capital, Abidjan, last week.

Human Rights Minister Victorine Wodie says the perpetrators must be punished.

But France says its soldiers were not responsible for the killings.

The Ivorian Government says it is preparing to lodge its case with the International Court of Justice.

It is also seeking compensation from France for the destruction of its air force.

French troops blew up several Ivorian fighter aircraft and helicopters after nine French peacekeepers were killed in an air raid in the rebel city of Bouake.

West African leaders will hold emergency talks in Nigeria today to discuss the crisis in Ivory Coast.

More than 4,000 foreigners have been evacuated from the country, with civilians and United Nations staff being flown from Abidjan.

French patrols are still looking for foreigners who may be hiding in their homes.

The French military is coordinating the evacuation in Ivory Coast and other nations are also sending aircraft to the international airport in Abidjan.

The Royal Air Force has evacuated more than 200 British nationals to nearby Ghana.

The foreigners were forced to flee after more than five days of violent demonstrations and looting.

Africa Union chairman Nigerian President Olusegun Obsanjo is hosting the talks.

Denial from the French??

NO!

That is propaganda bullshit and you know it. Just like you are one of the deniers that your nation killed 1000's of Iraqi citizens. Better admit that before blaiming another nation killing US sponsored terrorists that kill Ivory citizens and bomb the Un and French peace keepers. Last time we saw the common crowd calling "Vive La France" (Guess it was not on Fox or Jezus TV).

That is propaganda bullshit and you know it.

So besides Fox(which I don't read)

ABC
Reuters
Le Figaro

are propaganda bullshit....

Good to know.

You Americans make me laugh. You are the most morally corrupt society in the World. You are ruled by the media, lied to by your politicians, and try to give yourself a sense of superiority by claiming that "Europe owes us". You think that you are so superior to the rest of the World with your mega bucks and big powerful army. Also you are'nt arrogant, you are self delusional. Now the British are arrogant, but they dont feel the need to shout it from the rooftops, British patriotism does'nt need flags and banners. Its bred into us, we dont need symbols of it. Also the widespread corruption and moral decadence in American society is hardly the right attitude for a country claiming to be the World policeman is it? The British will always be superior to America. Because we dont sell out when an oil contract is wafted in front of us. And please dont call us socialist, just because we dont charge poeple in our hospitals instead of turning away the sick, doesnt mean that we are socialists. As for the World Wars, well, dont preach about them. You helped us win WWII just as you raised the tension with your other ridicolous wars in Vietnam and Korea and Iraq. Why didnt you just TALK to the Russians instead of building bombs and missiles? You can solve much more by talking than by fighting, diplomacy is always the best way. We have helped you win far more wars than you have helped us. Korea was won with the sacrifice of many British lives. You would not have stood a chance in Iraq without the British. And isnt it strange how there's more violence in the American sectors than the British ones? Maybe thats because the British dont just shoot on sight. British soldiers dont like patrolling American sectors because they are afraid to be shot by them. Some Danish troops have refused point blank to patrol them because they just get shot on sight. Just consider the other side of the argument before you start claiming that everyone owes you. Also maybe take a dose of humility next time before opening your fat, blubbery mouthes. Arrogance isnt something that you shout about, its something inside you. Remember that, Yanks. And I know there are huge numbers of very good and reasonable Americans out there and this diatribe is not aimed at them. Its for the ones who think they are the worlds greatest. YOU ARE'NT.

Forget him, he still has not answered this because he's to far indoctrinated by W's propaganda. The problem with those guys is that they lack every decent argument and the knowledge of their own crimes.

So besides Fox(which I don't read)

ABC
Reuters
Le Figaro

are propaganda bullshit....

Good to know.

Le Figaro is indeed BS (BTW it is anti US)
Better come on with Le Monde or Libération when you speak about press that has a neutral view towards the US. You just pointed out the most Parisian and nationalistic French right wing newspaper. It is anti US because it is very Gaullistic (the French opinion like De Gaulle wanted it towards the US), even I as a non French knows this, poor you.

We owe you nothing but our contempt.

If your beloved General Eisenhower hadn't been such a coward and had listened to the wisdom of Churchill, then most of Europe wouldn't have fallen into the hands of the communists and had to suffer 50 years of communist abuse.

And as for socialist welfare policies - its called caring. We don't make pregnant women pay £30,000 to give birth like in your hospitals. And we don't let the poor starve to death on our door steps. If you think having some milk of human kindness is socialism then God help you.

As for your war in Iraq, it was an ill managed folly. You were right to do it and Britain was right to help but in Britain we supported the war for Iraqi liberty. You went there out of a greedy urrge to grab some cheap oil. Its interesting the first targets the American troops secrued were the oil rigs.

Also could you take MacDonalds back? Im sick of seeing it on every bloody high street.

The way that you're talking about it, ALL Americans were in it for the oil, but as I recall, the majority of us were pissed when Bush broke his promise NOT to take the oil. We all knew from the beginning that the idiot was in it for the oil, but he said that he wouldn't touch it. Your 'socialist' programs sound awesome by the way! I've always liked the European idea of medical insurance, and my family is filled with people in the field of medicine.
Oh, and about MacDonalds, most of us hate it too, and a lot of us apologize for it.

Don't make me post the list of CIA "involvments" otherwise known as crimes against humanity. They make the KGB look like Kittens.

owes the U.S? me arse...the only reason you entered WWII was cos the japs bombed Pearl harbour! and you only sided with the U.K because Germany was losing. How about Vietnam, eh? didnt do too well there did ya.

Oh dear, he's invoked spelling errors. Let's play a little game, shall we?
If you want a contest, love, you'll get one.

Yes, let's. Show us how many errors you and your "superior" intellect have in German and Dutch.
:rolleyes:

Guess both Custode Rana and Candah have to bow their FOXy heads for the great Graf (or was the famous plotter a "Ritter"?) Von Witzleben!

Better yet, why was *I* reported for facetiously calling Von Witzleben a name he called me first?
Short term memory loss eh?
Ms. Witzleben, I'm sorry to have to say this, but you're a moron

He has been announced for flaiming towards you and other posters. He was the flaimer, not Von W.

How many times have I said that verbal enmity should be directed towards the government of a nation whose policies you disagree with, not its citizens? How many times have I chastised others for calling Europeans stupid cowards? How many damn times have I said that being rationally upset with another nation for its policies is usually acceptable, but hating it for the sake of hatred is not?
When I look at your post count it can't be that often.

removal of foreign civilians............ie: foreign witnesses.

I agree. The US citizens should have been left behind. Waste of time and money evacuating them.

BTW, nen zaligen en gelukkigen kerst gewenst. Vanwege de nu hier geweerde manager van een hotelletje in Z Engeland, gespeeld door John Cleese :)
Van hetzelfde. En alvast een goede jaarwisseling.

Gij ook, Von! En om het oubollig te zeggen "Het beste voor je dierbaren ende geliefden"! :)

owes the U.S? me arse...the only reason you entered WWII was cos the japs bombed Pearl harbour! and you only sided with the U.K because Germany was losing.


Question for you: who declard war on whom first - was it the USA on Germany, or vice-versa?

Germany declared war on the US first, per the alliance between Germany, Japan, and Italy. America declared war on Japan.

The US had been Aiding the UK before entering the war, even before Germany was in complete control of Europe and Manhandling the Brittish.

Also, you guys are getting it ALL wrong!

The world owes Central Massachusetts, due to the fact that I was born and raised (well, from the time I was 0 to the time is was 3 weeks, then my whole 2nd year of life, then from 5-6, then from 8-9, then from 9-10, and that's that so far!)

http://www.freewebs.com/thelightningstar/Mass.bmp

Well kiddo, when you can repeat that in : Dutch, French, German, Italian, Romanian (he domnlui), Spanish...then we can talk, alltough It was long ago that I researched Neanderthalers like ya. (BTW, long post, I just read the begin, the rest will be as dull) :p

My mothertongue is not English, so what the f.... but I understand that you are a intellectual when you speak two languages in Jezusland (formerly called the US). Hmm we all speak at least 5. And fascist (you've got to know) is still with a "c" (comes from Italian) :upyours: Up yours.
I'm now convinced that an alarming percentage of NS foragoers are blind. My beef was with US hypocrisie, not you.

Parenthetically, when did I say US hypocrisie spelled "fascism" wrong?

Yes, let's. Show us how many errors you and your "superior" intellect have in German and Dutch. :rolleyes:
Again, it's US hypocrisie's influence. I'm sorry I had to drag your post into it, but considering he seems to deliver praise based on a person's ability to spell English words, I think my response was justified.

To US hypocrisie... I don't think intellect can be accurately gauged by a person's spelling prowess; some of the more intelligent people I know have immense difficulty with the field. Had you not maligned my ability to spell, I promise you I wouldn't have questioned yours or anyone else's. Once again, I'm blamed for something someone else started. Gimme a break, will ya?

*files this one under "They can dish it out, but they can't take it..."*

He has been announced for flaiming towards you and other posters. He was the flaimer, not Von W.
I'm a girl. Let's remember what "the great Graf" himself said about making assumptions as to other people's genders, shall we?

For the record, I sincerely hope the moderators read this entire thread; there's too much bigotry on both sides of the debate.

Guess both Custode Rana and Candah have to bow their FOXy heads for the great Graf (or was the famous plotter a "Ritter"?) Von Witzleben!
FOXy head, hah! Alright, let me announce this once and for all: I do not consider myself a fan of Bush, I just love my nation and MOST of its people. You'll find morons here just like everywhere else in the world, but most of us are kind, compassionate men and women.

Short term memory loss eh?
*gestures to the quotes below* Likewise.
Your an American. What do you know about truth?
You spineless, dirty, worthless, barbaric Americans. You trumpet freedom like a mantra and label everyone who disagree's as a fool or a terrorist. You not only did you wait for the last possible moment to join the last two wars the civilized world had to fight, while profitteering by some of your biggest corporations selling arms to nazi's and even equipment to make the holocaust run more smoothly (IBM check it out). Your reckless spending and gong show that is the FED is dragging the world into a decifit that will never recover, and you blatantly ignore every convention and natural law of mercy and tolerance. And then you display shock when you are attacked. You are the only country in the planet that goes out into the rain and doesn't expect to get wet. You are not the chosen people, you are headed for a brick wall, and I would rather see 100,000 dead Americans than 100,000 dead Iraqis civilians. I hope the earth devours your nation.A+++++!!!
I was unaware that it's more socially acceptable to simultaneously impugn 300 million people than it is to moderately insult one. Silly me! ^_^

When I look at your post count it can't be that often.
Being reminded to curb racism even once is unacceptable; I've made my plea in at least three distinct posts.


Once again, the most important parts of my post are overlooked while the minutiae is pounced on. Can't you respond to the rest of my position?

Germany declared war on the US first, per the alliance between Germany, Japan, and Italy. America declared war on Japan.

The US had been Aiding the UK before entering the war, even before Germany was in complete control of Europe and Manhandling the Brittish.

Correct.

(I was asking The Communazi Party a rhetorical question by the way)

Is this your only argument, us being "unintelligent"? Come on my six year old cousin can come up with a better argument.

I never commented on anyone's intelligence. I was referring to ignorance. One can be highly intelligent and still be ignorant about many things, indeed it would be impossible not to be ignorant about many things. And I was not referring to everyone, there are plenty of posters on this thread who do actually have a decent understanding of what they discuss. Unfortunately they tend to get drowned out in the white noise of do not know the difference between Saudi Arabia and Sudan, have very little conception of the details of the two world wars or insist on arguing in a simplistic way about situations that only seem simple because they know very little about them.

An besides if you read my latter posts you would know I got of that partucular subject matter.

Sorry, I read through all your posts on the matter and saw nothing beyond appeals to ill-defined ideals. Really, you have shown me nothing whatsoever that suggests you understand the situation in N Ireland at all.

AN what truly is "intelligence" knowing a bunch of "big words" to confuse those who would know better, or is it the remembering of countless formulas that only effect you once you enter a feild of employment, or is it the ability to think outside of the box, to think beyound those formulas and "big words"?
Truth, we may never know, but as long as we continue to qeustion we will continue to get more and more answers.

I would suggest that one important aspect of intelligence would be being able to recognise your own ignorance and limiting yourself to commenting on those things which you have more than a superficial grasp of. You may do well to bear this in mind.

And what box is it you are think outside of, exactly? It seems to me you're very happily tucked up inside the box labelled "American Irish expert". You seem very happily ensconsed in there with the kind of "Irishman" (a whole 1/64th Irish) who asks us British when we'll be getting the tanks out of Dublin (yes, this really happened to me). Never mind the fact that I have more Irish blood in my little finger than most Celtic-jersey, green-Guinness drinking American born "Irish" have in their entire body.

Sorry, a little bit of a rant there, but those guys really piss me off.

Oh, and if you have any problems with any "big words" I use then please, let me know. If you suggest what level of English you are comfortable with then I'm sure I can lower my level to one that would be comprehensible (understandable) for you.

SO, please come up with a more solid foundation for your argument, please?

What argument? I haven't started to debate with you because you've offered nothing to argue against. If you really wish to discuss Northern Ireland then I'd like you to provide the following:

1) What you believe should be done in Northern Ireland
2) On what basis you justify this

It would be nice if you could post something that shows that you "got of that partucular subject matter" then that would be lovely, too. Something that suggests that you have some kind of understanding of the history of Ireland and the current situation on the ground would be nice.

Isn't it strange how all the world's ills are blamed on the US?

YET:
1. We didn't build a nuclear reactor for Israel and sell them the fuel for it(France)
2. We didn't build a nuclear reactor for Iraq(France)
3. We didn't build a nuclear reactor for Iran(Russia)
4. We didn't invade Afghanistan in '79, yet due to that invasion al-qaeda is in existance.
5. We didn't establish the Balfour declaration that started the vision of a homeland for the Jews.(Britain)


I just want to add:

6. Didn't brutally suppress an uprising in Algeria (France)
7. Didn't get caught trying to circumvent the Iraq arms sanctions (Britain)
8. Didn't use its own military to blow up a Greenpeace boat, killing a crew member (France)
9. Didn't sell arms to Indonesia that were clearly going to be used to suppress separatists (Britain)

Etcetera etcetera. Yes, Europeans can be hypocritical and ignorant, too. It always makes me laugh when we British and the French attempt to get up on high horses, ignoring the fact that both countries have been considerably worse than the US in supplying arms to dubious regimes in the past.

1. God forbid people have an energy source so that they can live. Because a nation is more generous then you, they are bad. Way to go America.
2. See above. Why did you even invade Iraq? Were they building Nukes?
3. See above. Maybe you guys shouldn't have collapsed Russia's economy and forced them to sell Nuclear Power plants for places like Iran.
4. No, but you invaded North Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, etc. Its not Russia's fault people hate you.
5. Oh no! Somewhere the Jews can evade persecution! How evil! You are a Racist.
6. At least Canada and Europe didn't orchastrate millions of deaths in South America and Central America. via coups and uprisings for the sake of Democrazy. (America in Chile, Venezuala, etc)
7. You were the ones who sold them chemical weapons in the 80's.
8. Nobody likes Greenpeace.
9. Seperatists = those Islamics you all seem to hate. Those Islamics that have an itch to join that Jihad against America. You guys really should thank britain for that one. But then again, you've sold arms to plenty of countries, AND provided military support to prevent an uprising in many of your puppet nations.